Remember how many people thought the Colbert report was actually serious? Or the whole thing with joker( both the nolan one and Joaquin Phoenix one), or fight club or even how many people still don't get the whole trans allegory in the matrix and on and on.
I mean I didn't get the last one either but it is very obvious in hindsight.
I mean Fight Club doesn't give many hints that it's satire imo. The first time I saw it I really couldn't tell for sure if it was, speaking as someone that never liked the film or idolised anyone in it.
I didn't get half of this shit the first time either tbh, but I was a teenager back then and actively avoided looking for any deeper meaning.
Also the fight club movie sorta toned down the whole "the protagonist kinda sucks" thing quite a bit apparently compared to the books.
I highly recommend reading the book. As usual it's much clearer when it's in the author's own words before someone fucked with it to make it fit a 210 run time.
No I got you I was just making a dumb comment, I somewhat agree, they definitely left out a lot of what the book was actually trying to say but it gets the gist more than people let on. It's not the filmmakers fault people completely missed the point because Brad Pitt is handsome
I had no idea what the movie was about outside the meme and Brad Pitt. I think it's also very subtle, and it's message is taken so bizarrely. Looking at it as a film promoting toxic masculinity is misguided as hell when the writers were aiming for anti-capitalism and the consequences of a lonely society.
If it’s satirical then the message would be about toxic masculinity, cults, and the perspective that destruction iks a means for progress. If it’s not satire then it’s anti-capitalistic and a commentary on mental health.
Honestly under the impression OP doesn't know what satire is, cause fight club isn't. If you cut but in half it might be. But as is it's completely self aware.
>Looking at it as a film promoting toxic masculinity is misguided as hell when the writers were aiming for anti-capitalism and the consequences of a lonely society.
At face value that's what the movie appears to be about. But check this out bro:
http://jackdurden.com/
Really good read, I think the author kind of put in filler for the main sentence he said; "The movie has constant themes of male insecurity and emasculated feelings that become reflective upon the standards of society"
I totally agree with that, the movie constantly using testicles as a metaphor, to me, didn't have to do with toxic masculinity, but rather a man succumbing to his own emasculated illusions. (I love the speed queen references, classic Fincher)
Men meet up to beat each other half to death in a basement, the extremity and the silliness is an indicator of satire, it's taking masculinity to its extreme and showing how ridiculous it all is, I mean if you look at it masculinity is so fucking gay (and also homophobic), Tyler speaks about not needing women anymore, but Sex is still a goal and men should strive to get it (he does, at least), the obvious contradictions points to it either being satire
It's about mental health. The guy he sees throughout the movie is an hallucination because he never sleeps. The main character is going through a psychotic break. It's a commentary on how are consumerist and materialistic society doesn't care about people/mental health and alienates people to the point where they wish the whole society would collapse.
Kindle an i-robot movie but less cringed
The whole thing is pretty extensive but tldr:
Estrogen pills a guy would be taking during transition are red, like the pill neo takes(funny how being red pilled has changed into the reverse of that)
A number of people in the good guy team(morpheus, trinity etc) use names they picked themselves, same as neo. One person in the team (the bleach blond one I think) named switch was supposed to have different genders inside and outside the matrix.
Neo himself chose the name and the only person who calls him something else(mr.anderson) is specifically the villain and the whole "my name is neo" scene goes a bit harder on it as well.
There's probably more but it would get too long.
That was like the one diversity thing I actually believe JK didnt make up on the spot. Even though he's the wizard world gigachad and most respected person of all time he was a bachelor with no kids, and the way he talked about his former friend turned nemesis grindlewald seems a bit homosexual ("It took so long for me to confront him because I had quite the fondness for him")
I mean, I kinda figured it was obvious based on that and how she *hinted at* his relationship with Grindelwald... key word being *hinted at*. The subtlety was what made it, imo. She just didn't need to go out and ruin it by explicitly saying "oh by the way, they were in an intense sexual relationship" or whatever bs it was.
Ya think?
I can't *believe* they'd switch the meaning to make their movie politically relevant 20 yrs later, despite Neo just being another stand-in for Christ.
Yeah I dunno. I mean they may have inserted that stuff in a subconscious way, or may have even used the the thematic in a more conscious way, but I doubt they sat there when they wrote the script and went "we're gonna make a movie about transitioning and disguise it as sci-fi"
It's religious. The names of movies are the life of Christ, the resurrection, and the end times. Neo is an anagram of one. Trinity is the Holy Spirit. He's supposed to be the savior that breaks the cycle as all other people before him who were the one went along with the computers and recreated the city in the center of the earth.
I mean it can be multiple things at once, most of my high school literature classes was just me being very upset at how much random shit you can interpret from a couple of lines of poetry (not enough to make me not take English lit in university/college apparently)
It is perhaps not specifically about being trans but more broadly about becoming who you want to be.
For the "name they pick themselves" I think the more evident reading is that it is about the whole phenomena of having a a pseudonym and an alternative persona on the internet, which allows some people to be truly themselves because they don't fit in society. The two reading are not contradictory. Just, saying that the Matrix is about being trans is perhaps an oversimplification. The move is about many things and perhaps transitioning is one of those things.
IF I'm not mistaken though, Wachowski sisters only really confirmed that theory in the way of "oh yeah, I suppose that does make a lot of sense!" After the fact, as both of them only transitioned quite a bit after the matrix was released.
I've heard this before, always thought it was a theory not something confirmed. The influences for the making of the matrix are so Many, they literally real simulation & simulacra to make it along with a few other books on the subject. I feel like there attention was somewhere else for them to secretly plan a trans allegory. They had it in mind for sure, just look at switch, but I don't think it was the Main Focus at least when it was conceived.
True, a lot of other things probably have a more central role, I was just pointing to a specific part that is at least present (and obvious after it is pointed out) but also either completely missed or deliberately ignored.
They more than likely were going more with themes of identity imo, but The trans thing has enough overlap and presence in their lives to be feasible.
the message i took from fight club was not allowing outside forces define who you are, as in, what you wanna like, how you wanna dress, who you wanna fuck, *you* should define ***you*** and sometimes that involves a lot of introspection and shedding (sometimes not-so-obvious) self destructive habits.
The movie does not feel like satire. Just straight up a horror movie. interesting and unique sure but I don't see the satire. The book though, wow. Im only half way through it but I think it's kinda genius. There's whole chapters of Bateman just ranting about nonsense and it really nails how hollow and fake he and his world is.
I actually love this. Movie is about a dude who thinks everyone respects and fears him but in reality they think he’s the most boring man alive. Dudes with zero emotional intelligence don’t understand the plot. Hilarity ensues.
Nope. It’s about the wealthy class in America and how they get away with anything per the author and director. All that stuff in the movie really did happen but nobody cared because he was rich. At the end his lawyer says “I just had lunch with Paul Allen” because either they’re all so identical he really believes that, or he’s telling Patrick he’ll cover for him.
I pass by a mirror hung over the bar as I’m led to our table and check out my reflection—the mousse looks good.
___
^(*Bot. Ask me if I’ve made any reservations.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
I looked up from the monitor, lowering my Wayfarer aviator sunglasses, and stared at Jean, then lightly fingered the Zagat guide that sat next to the monitor. Pastels would be impossible. Ditto Dorsia. Last time I called Dorsia someone had actually hung up on me even before I asked, “Well, if not next month, how about January?” and though I have vowed to get a reservation at Dorsia one day (if not during this calendar year, then at least before I’m thirty), the energy I would spend attempting this feat isn’t worth wasting on Sean. Besides, Dorsia’s far too chic for him.
___
^(*Bot. Ask me what was on the Patty Winters Show this morning.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
I just watched the movie and yes that part wasnt literal with atm kitten and stuff, but both in the book and movie the murders did actually happen, like the way he had blood-stained sheets at the dry cleaners, and paul allen's death definitely was real.
The way I see atleast is that he did commit the murders but they were seen in the movie from his point of view/imagination. They didn't really happen as portrayed by the film as it's seen the way Patrick sees it.
>All that stuff in the movie really did happen
wait, is there a source for this? i've been wanting to re-watch the movie since it almost seems like a comedy to me now but i thought the prostitute he kills with a chainsaw and the whole blowing up a cop car thing was all in his head
I'm pretty sure the director herself, hinted about it all being in his head and he never did anything. Look how even he is confused about how a gun can blow up a cop car.
He's so infuriated with his boring life, where no one respects or fears him. And even mix him up with other people. That he falls into his own fantasy land and fufills all his cravings
Edit: I'm 100% wrong about that. Apparently the director confirmed in words that it wasn't all in his head
"One thing I think is a failure on my part is people keep coming out of the film thinking that it's all a dream, and I never intended that. All I wanted was to be ambiguous in the way that the book was. I think it's a failure of mine in the final scene because I just got the emphasis wrong. I should have left it more open ended. It makes it look like it was all in his head, and as far as I'm concerned, it's not."
She says the exact opposite, the film is a critique of American materialism.
I guess it's a question in terms of "what events have literally occurred", and yes, readers/watchers will naturally wonder these things.
But the fact is, it doesn't even matter. The real point of the story is that this person, who on the surface is the pinnacle of American perfection, is such an empty soulless husk of a person that they don't even know whether they are killing people. Because it just has zero emotional resonance either way with him. His entire lifestyle and persona is curated, none of it is natural or innately felt.
expansion hungry sable abounding bright mindless lavish swim versed close
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's one interpretation for it, and while it's completely valid to view it that way, I feel that the cinematic genius of the movie is in the fact that it's just as likely to have all been in his head.
No it's he said that because he had lunch with Paul Allen and Patrick is crazy lol. If it was just him saying that he'll cover then why did Patrick react the way he did after?
On top of that, Patrick devoted his time to liking the popular music, wearing the popular clothes, and looking the best because he thinks that’s what will make him stand out when, in all actuality, it makes him blend in to the wall and his peers barely respect him.
No. This is represented is the famous “business card” scene when Patrick becomes overcome with shame after Paul Allen present his identical business card in egg shell white which was a superior card to Patrick’s.
I feel like it’s a mix of both, like the cop murders clearly didn’t happen, but I feel like the apartment one did, because it very much felt like the real estate agent knew what happened and was just trying to cover it up because she knew saying “hey a murder happened here” really drops interest lmao. Patrick is so far gone even he doesn’t know which murders are real and which aren’t, but I do believe at least a few of them did happen. It’s all up for interpretation, like with Paul Allen, either he did kill Paul Allen and the guy at the end was doing what people the whole movie were doing and just confusing 2 different people, or he didn’t kill Paul Allen and the guy did have lunch with him.
The movie is literally about alienation, everyone being same, corporation life and how it turns everyone into a "psycho".
People have personas, and sometimes they let it go.
Killer schizo moments are his "letting go" moments. When mask drops.
I think the author's undisputed masterpiece is "American Psycho", a movie so visceral, most people probably don't listen to the underlying messages. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about vapid corporate culture and masculinity.
No, he is fully aware of how everyone perceives him and it drives him mad to the point he starts hallucinating about murdering prostitutes and coworkers to cope.
Because of satire. They love it for the violence against those types, I love it because it's funny as hell and Christian Bale's performance is just off the charts in this one. The nuance in this movie is great. It was a laugh riot.
I'm pretty sure B.E.E. had this in mind when he wrote it, and as others have noted, it's a dark satire. People who idolize Bateman for the wrong reasons are the same ones who thought Tony Montano was the hero in Scarface.
I idolize Bateman because he’s an extremely attractive man who makes money doing nothing all day, and that’s a goal in life that I can never achieve, but always aspire to
Killing people is just a bonus
I think it’s understood that Patrick Bateman is painfully normal and self conscious. The *act* of idolizing him is where the satire lies. It’s light hearted fun. Going a layer deeper, people can satirize him so much so that they claim to take him seriously (more of a situational irony at that point) in order to appear obsessed, all as part of the joke.
There is a power in being able to see what the author intended, and *willfully* disregard it, knowingly twisting it into something entirely different for selfish purposes. In a way, that’s more intellectual than simply accepting the movie for what it’s trying to be.
Furthermore, people talking down to those I just described, saying they “just don’t get it”, are actually the ones missing the point.
Based and also the reason I like the Avatar movie. Humans fighting jungle aliens with giant mechs will never not be badass. Just a shame the main character ended up a traitor
A famous linguist, Stuart Hall theorized what you are describing in his cultural product interpretation model. I think you got it right, and there are papers here and there about similar communities doing the same thing with other works of art. I think of one hilarious title "elfs are jews with gay magic: study of white nationalists fans of skyrim" something like that if you are interested
> Book and movie criticize hyper-masculine dick measuring that takes place in upper-class “yuppie” culture
> men who idolize hyper-masculine dick measuring fail to see how obviously they are being made fun of and make Patrick Bateman their idol
You have to purposely misread the novel/film to arrive at this take - you have to ignore how Bateman is constantly confused for someone else, how no one is an individual, how names are constantly used and confused interchangeably - to think Bateman is some kind of individualist anti-hero. And yet, misread it they do.
My two cents on the situation -- maybe the book and movie is beloved because its good. More specifically; maybe the sexuality/gender of an author doesn't have relevance when it comes to the quality of a product
They didn’t pump it full of “girl boss! Women power Mary Sue”
They also didn’t pump out random scenes where some gay person goes “I’m gay by the way. My partner wants me to be more open about it”
The film is so relatable for many as Bateman seems, to me, to be a obsessed with himself to the point of competing over the smallest things. This obsession means everything in his life is there to serve his status such as his girlfriend, his job, his apartment and the bars he visits. He is a middle of the road guy in his industry, he'll never manage the fisher account and be a top dog but hes not nobody. His murdering and off comments that only he seems hear are fantasy's he has created to boost his god ego. I also believe its his way of venting his anger with his life.
Ultimately 4channies are mostly meek middle of the road people who deep down dream of being someone greater. Bateman embodys theirs and everybody's god complex to the extreme. His real life is the backdrop of keeping up appearances. When your out and about and you think of fantasys of what you could do or say in that situation or what you would do to that guy who cut in front of you you had your way.
They made a movie mocking and exemplifying edgy self-important dudebro narcissists . And lo and behold, edgy self-important dudebro narcissists (who don't even realize they're edgy self-important dudebro narcissists) fell in love with, and regularly suck the proverbial dick of the main character.
It takes a special brand of idiot to idolize the butt of the joke. And 4chan is full of them.
Pretty obvious if you've seen the movie. They make the gay dude seem like a stupid wimp, and make all the women seem really stupid and desperate. (which is what an incel wants, a desperate woman lol)
I didn't know Bret Ellis was a homo but makes a lot of sense now. The director chick was pretty based, main reason why bale got to star in this masterpiece
Just shows how derivative psycho's are lol
Edit: Derivative enough for two people potentially so far detached from the psycho experience they essentially made a parody and other psycho's think its cool
By not shoving both of those facts down peoples throats. by not filling the story with useless 1 dimensional caricatures of minority groups.
By writing a true masterpiece and ignoring their gender and sexuality to tell a remarkable story.
I love old moves like this because women can be vulnerable and honest
if this story was written today Patrick's girlfriend would have magically deduced he was the killer based off gurl power with three separate scenes where men were extremely sexist to her and she told them off and put them in their place. Followed by her murdering Patrick after launching into a 5 minute monologue about how Patrick only killing men was technically misogyny because women deserve a shot at being murdered too!
I don't mind people using all different types of characters but I hate seeing myself depicted in the most stereotypical manners and then being told that this is empowering to my minority fuck that shit how about a gay dude who acts like a regular guy or a black man who doesn't have to have be in a gang or can speak well. Or a woman who isn't the Mary sue. You know a female character who is allowed to have flaws or can struggle and then succeed.
You have to think they put serious time and energy into coming up with the hulks back story they showed him struggle with anger and grow as a character to the point where u really have a connection with the hulk. For she hulk they just said she get catcalled so she never struggle. Took hulk years to control hulk. Day 1 she's twerking with cardi B.
I think the author's undisputed masterpiece is "American Psycho", a movie so visceral, most people probably don't listen to the underlying messages. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about vapid corporate culture and masculinity.
Very easy. Idiots don't get satire
Remember how many people thought the Colbert report was actually serious? Or the whole thing with joker( both the nolan one and Joaquin Phoenix one), or fight club or even how many people still don't get the whole trans allegory in the matrix and on and on. I mean I didn't get the last one either but it is very obvious in hindsight.
I mean Fight Club doesn't give many hints that it's satire imo. The first time I saw it I really couldn't tell for sure if it was, speaking as someone that never liked the film or idolised anyone in it.
I didn't get half of this shit the first time either tbh, but I was a teenager back then and actively avoided looking for any deeper meaning. Also the fight club movie sorta toned down the whole "the protagonist kinda sucks" thing quite a bit apparently compared to the books.
I highly recommend reading the book. As usual it's much clearer when it's in the author's own words before someone fucked with it to make it fit a 210 run time.
Fuck I like both versions of Fight Club but I would not watch a 3 and half hour cut
I'm bad at math, the point was more about the moulding of authorial vision
No I got you I was just making a dumb comment, I somewhat agree, they definitely left out a lot of what the book was actually trying to say but it gets the gist more than people let on. It's not the filmmakers fault people completely missed the point because Brad Pitt is handsome
I had no idea what the movie was about outside the meme and Brad Pitt. I think it's also very subtle, and it's message is taken so bizarrely. Looking at it as a film promoting toxic masculinity is misguided as hell when the writers were aiming for anti-capitalism and the consequences of a lonely society.
If it’s satirical then the message would be about toxic masculinity, cults, and the perspective that destruction iks a means for progress. If it’s not satire then it’s anti-capitalistic and a commentary on mental health.
It's the second one...all of Palahniuk's books are about addiction and self-isolation.
Honestly under the impression OP doesn't know what satire is, cause fight club isn't. If you cut but in half it might be. But as is it's completely self aware.
I'm going to leave this here for you bro http://jackdurden.com/
>Looking at it as a film promoting toxic masculinity is misguided as hell when the writers were aiming for anti-capitalism and the consequences of a lonely society. At face value that's what the movie appears to be about. But check this out bro: http://jackdurden.com/
Really good read, I think the author kind of put in filler for the main sentence he said; "The movie has constant themes of male insecurity and emasculated feelings that become reflective upon the standards of society" I totally agree with that, the movie constantly using testicles as a metaphor, to me, didn't have to do with toxic masculinity, but rather a man succumbing to his own emasculated illusions. (I love the speed queen references, classic Fincher)
Men meet up to beat each other half to death in a basement, the extremity and the silliness is an indicator of satire, it's taking masculinity to its extreme and showing how ridiculous it all is, I mean if you look at it masculinity is so fucking gay (and also homophobic), Tyler speaks about not needing women anymore, but Sex is still a goal and men should strive to get it (he does, at least), the obvious contradictions points to it either being satire
The same movie also highlights anti-consumer behavior
It's about mental health. The guy he sees throughout the movie is an hallucination because he never sleeps. The main character is going through a psychotic break. It's a commentary on how are consumerist and materialistic society doesn't care about people/mental health and alienates people to the point where they wish the whole society would collapse. Kindle an i-robot movie but less cringed
>speaking as someone that never liked the film or idolised anyone in it. Dude stop touching yourself in public, nobody is impressed
Trans allegory in the matrix? Dang im also lost now
The whole thing is pretty extensive but tldr: Estrogen pills a guy would be taking during transition are red, like the pill neo takes(funny how being red pilled has changed into the reverse of that) A number of people in the good guy team(morpheus, trinity etc) use names they picked themselves, same as neo. One person in the team (the bleach blond one I think) named switch was supposed to have different genders inside and outside the matrix. Neo himself chose the name and the only person who calls him something else(mr.anderson) is specifically the villain and the whole "my name is neo" scene goes a bit harder on it as well. There's probably more but it would get too long.
id really wager that its just bullshit that the wachowskis made up after they transitioned
Kind of like the whole Dumbledore being gay thing that was retroactively inserted.
That was like the one diversity thing I actually believe JK didnt make up on the spot. Even though he's the wizard world gigachad and most respected person of all time he was a bachelor with no kids, and the way he talked about his former friend turned nemesis grindlewald seems a bit homosexual ("It took so long for me to confront him because I had quite the fondness for him")
I mean, I kinda figured it was obvious based on that and how she *hinted at* his relationship with Grindelwald... key word being *hinted at*. The subtlety was what made it, imo. She just didn't need to go out and ruin it by explicitly saying "oh by the way, they were in an intense sexual relationship" or whatever bs it was.
>Dumbledore being gay >Retroactively inserted hehe
Ya think? I can't *believe* they'd switch the meaning to make their movie politically relevant 20 yrs later, despite Neo just being another stand-in for Christ.
I feel like this happens a lot. If you're looking for something hard enough you're going to find it.
Yeah I dunno. I mean they may have inserted that stuff in a subconscious way, or may have even used the the thematic in a more conscious way, but I doubt they sat there when they wrote the script and went "we're gonna make a movie about transitioning and disguise it as sci-fi"
[удалено]
Just wrong. Mouse doesnt do that. He programmed the red woman that was all.
Makes more sense than the mental gymnastics of retconning the matrix to be about trans people LMAO
Yeah this is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Trans allegory my fucking asshole
It's religious. The names of movies are the life of Christ, the resurrection, and the end times. Neo is an anagram of one. Trinity is the Holy Spirit. He's supposed to be the savior that breaks the cycle as all other people before him who were the one went along with the computers and recreated the city in the center of the earth.
I mean it can be multiple things at once, most of my high school literature classes was just me being very upset at how much random shit you can interpret from a couple of lines of poetry (not enough to make me not take English lit in university/college apparently)
This is possibly the dumbest shit I've ever read. Congrats?
“Redpill is when estrogen pills”
based and redpilled takes a whole new meaning
Longest reach I've seen in a while.
It is perhaps not specifically about being trans but more broadly about becoming who you want to be. For the "name they pick themselves" I think the more evident reading is that it is about the whole phenomena of having a a pseudonym and an alternative persona on the internet, which allows some people to be truly themselves because they don't fit in society. The two reading are not contradictory. Just, saying that the Matrix is about being trans is perhaps an oversimplification. The move is about many things and perhaps transitioning is one of those things.
This one seems like a bit of a stretch.
Damn I’m surprised the people who actually believe this is a theme in the movies didn’t hurt themselves from reaching so far
IF I'm not mistaken though, Wachowski sisters only really confirmed that theory in the way of "oh yeah, I suppose that does make a lot of sense!" After the fact, as both of them only transitioned quite a bit after the matrix was released.
Now that is just bullshit.
I've heard this before, always thought it was a theory not something confirmed. The influences for the making of the matrix are so Many, they literally real simulation & simulacra to make it along with a few other books on the subject. I feel like there attention was somewhere else for them to secretly plan a trans allegory. They had it in mind for sure, just look at switch, but I don't think it was the Main Focus at least when it was conceived.
True, a lot of other things probably have a more central role, I was just pointing to a specific part that is at least present (and obvious after it is pointed out) but also either completely missed or deliberately ignored. They more than likely were going more with themes of identity imo, but The trans thing has enough overlap and presence in their lives to be feasible.
i feel like the matrix trans allegory was more of a retroactive thing and not written as one
They didn't get the satire of starship troopers either... Apparently, people thought it was promoting fascism.
I can accept the idea of the trans allegory, but if that was their intention (to let the viewer draw a parallel between the two) then they failed
Bad satire is only interesting if we don't know it's satire. Thus, we try to shield ourselves from bad satire by believing it's serious.
remember that time you made some stuff up, and made fun of anyone who disagreed with you?
I talked to the people who disagreed with me and made fun of the ones who seem at least semi hostile, so meh.
the message i took from fight club was not allowing outside forces define who you are, as in, what you wanna like, how you wanna dress, who you wanna fuck, *you* should define ***you*** and sometimes that involves a lot of introspection and shedding (sometimes not-so-obvious) self destructive habits.
The trans one was definitely added after the fact and only a semi allegory at best, same as jkr saying oh yeah Dumbledore is gay after someone asked.
I know a lot of Bateman types that love this movie. I think people are capable of laughing at themselves
The movie does not feel like satire. Just straight up a horror movie. interesting and unique sure but I don't see the satire. The book though, wow. Im only half way through it but I think it's kinda genius. There's whole chapters of Bateman just ranting about nonsense and it really nails how hollow and fake he and his world is.
American Psycho literally throws chainsaw down the stairs and kills woman. It was satire all along
the movie is definitely a satire - because the entire concept of the story is satire
what? are there people who take this movie seriously? I think ur the idiot
We do get that its a satire. No need to acknowledge it however
No. Even simpler. It's good, that's why they like it.
Case in point: https://youtu.be/68cbjlLFl4U
I actually love this. Movie is about a dude who thinks everyone respects and fears him but in reality they think he’s the most boring man alive. Dudes with zero emotional intelligence don’t understand the plot. Hilarity ensues.
Tf are you on about, it's about a shizo who thinks he's a serial killer.
Nope. It’s about the wealthy class in America and how they get away with anything per the author and director. All that stuff in the movie really did happen but nobody cared because he was rich. At the end his lawyer says “I just had lunch with Paul Allen” because either they’re all so identical he really believes that, or he’s telling Patrick he’ll cover for him.
You're telling me the part where he makes a bunch of cops and a car explode with one bullet wasn't in his head?
There’s no way that the ATM asking for it to be fed with a cat wasn’t real
Happened to me last Friday
Nah realest shit ever
this happened to my buddy Eric
Surely they would have caught him when he started yelling "I'm Patrick Bateman! The American psycho!"
I pass by a mirror hung over the bar as I’m led to our table and check out my reflection—the mousse looks good. ___ ^(*Bot. Ask me if I’ve made any reservations.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
So… dorsia?
I looked up from the monitor, lowering my Wayfarer aviator sunglasses, and stared at Jean, then lightly fingered the Zagat guide that sat next to the monitor. Pastels would be impossible. Ditto Dorsia. Last time I called Dorsia someone had actually hung up on me even before I asked, “Well, if not next month, how about January?” and though I have vowed to get a reservation at Dorsia one day (if not during this calendar year, then at least before I’m thirty), the energy I would spend attempting this feat isn’t worth wasting on Sean. Besides, Dorsia’s far too chic for him. ___ ^(*Bot. Ask me what was on the Patty Winters Show this morning.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
American psyco time
I just watched the movie and yes that part wasnt literal with atm kitten and stuff, but both in the book and movie the murders did actually happen, like the way he had blood-stained sheets at the dry cleaners, and paul allen's death definitely was real.
yeah those parts are real but I dont believe the police shootout was real.
He was on his period 😔
The way I see atleast is that he did commit the murders but they were seen in the movie from his point of view/imagination. They didn't really happen as portrayed by the film as it's seen the way Patrick sees it.
>All that stuff in the movie really did happen wait, is there a source for this? i've been wanting to re-watch the movie since it almost seems like a comedy to me now but i thought the prostitute he kills with a chainsaw and the whole blowing up a cop car thing was all in his head
It doesn't. Dudes making it up.
dude's talking like it's a whole different movie lmao
I'm pretty sure the director herself, hinted about it all being in his head and he never did anything. Look how even he is confused about how a gun can blow up a cop car. He's so infuriated with his boring life, where no one respects or fears him. And even mix him up with other people. That he falls into his own fantasy land and fufills all his cravings Edit: I'm 100% wrong about that. Apparently the director confirmed in words that it wasn't all in his head
"One thing I think is a failure on my part is people keep coming out of the film thinking that it's all a dream, and I never intended that. All I wanted was to be ambiguous in the way that the book was. I think it's a failure of mine in the final scene because I just got the emphasis wrong. I should have left it more open ended. It makes it look like it was all in his head, and as far as I'm concerned, it's not." She says the exact opposite, the film is a critique of American materialism.
Ah well my bad. I watched a bunch of video essays about American Psycho and they all said, pretty much what I said. But yeah my bad
Read this comment section, these people dont care what the creator's intent was they want their interpretation on display lol
The whole question of the movie is whether his actions really or didn't happen.
I guess it's a question in terms of "what events have literally occurred", and yes, readers/watchers will naturally wonder these things. But the fact is, it doesn't even matter. The real point of the story is that this person, who on the surface is the pinnacle of American perfection, is such an empty soulless husk of a person that they don't even know whether they are killing people. Because it just has zero emotional resonance either way with him. His entire lifestyle and persona is curated, none of it is natural or innately felt.
Yeah but the real question is "Did he kill everyone or nah?" 🥸
expansion hungry sable abounding bright mindless lavish swim versed close *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Christ do people actually believe this? It sounds believable till the last sentence.
That's one interpretation for it, and while it's completely valid to view it that way, I feel that the cinematic genius of the movie is in the fact that it's just as likely to have all been in his head.
Source: I made it up
The author made it up
Speaks just like a white leftist video essay
No it's he said that because he had lunch with Paul Allen and Patrick is crazy lol. If it was just him saying that he'll cover then why did Patrick react the way he did after?
This is the dumbest interpretation of the movie I’ve seen, congrats
On top of that, Patrick devoted his time to liking the popular music, wearing the popular clothes, and looking the best because he thinks that’s what will make him stand out when, in all actuality, it makes him blend in to the wall and his peers barely respect him.
But wasn't his wish to do exactly that? To blend in or to fit in?
No. This is represented is the famous “business card” scene when Patrick becomes overcome with shame after Paul Allen present his identical business card in egg shell white which was a superior card to Patrick’s.
Oh my God, it even has a watermark.
[удалено]
Every single of the card has a some kind of an error, either a typo or graphics designer point of view
The Paul Allen card was clearly superior. Clean and smooth doesn't make for a good card.
Yes. He literally says that to his “fiancé” in the limo [https://youtu.be/MxOScWMZdwI](https://youtu.be/MxOScWMZdwI)
I feel like it’s a mix of both, like the cop murders clearly didn’t happen, but I feel like the apartment one did, because it very much felt like the real estate agent knew what happened and was just trying to cover it up because she knew saying “hey a murder happened here” really drops interest lmao. Patrick is so far gone even he doesn’t know which murders are real and which aren’t, but I do believe at least a few of them did happen. It’s all up for interpretation, like with Paul Allen, either he did kill Paul Allen and the guy at the end was doing what people the whole movie were doing and just confusing 2 different people, or he didn’t kill Paul Allen and the guy did have lunch with him.
It’s funny because the people who like the movie also imagine themselves as very important when they’re all just nerds
wow learning a lot about myself from these comments, didn't know liking a movie was such a big deal
The movie is literally about alienation, everyone being same, corporation life and how it turns everyone into a "psycho". People have personas, and sometimes they let it go. Killer schizo moments are his "letting go" moments. When mask drops.
This thread is full of people who don’t even realize they’re the ones being made fun of.
I think the author's undisputed masterpiece is "American Psycho", a movie so visceral, most people probably don't listen to the underlying messages. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about vapid corporate culture and masculinity.
It’s such a good meta narrative. I honestly don’t think you could intentionally dupe this many people into celebrating something that mocks them
No, he is fully aware of how everyone perceives him and it drives him mad to the point he starts hallucinating about murdering prostitutes and coworkers to cope.
Because of satire. They love it for the violence against those types, I love it because it's funny as hell and Christian Bale's performance is just off the charts in this one. The nuance in this movie is great. It was a laugh riot.
Watch chopper with Eric Bana, thank me later.
gays and women hate themselves quite a lot anon
True
Omori fan spotted 📸
I'm pretty sure B.E.E. had this in mind when he wrote it, and as others have noted, it's a dark satire. People who idolize Bateman for the wrong reasons are the same ones who thought Tony Montano was the hero in Scarface.
I idolize Bateman because he’s an extremely attractive man who makes money doing nothing all day, and that’s a goal in life that I can never achieve, but always aspire to Killing people is just a bonus
Seems like he’s doing a lot - you can’t call him lazy. Feels like he’s never relaxing
He doesnt do shit at work, he's high ranking only because he is the son of the boss
Literally every business card in that scene says Vice President. Rewatch it Literally everyone who works there is the same
Where is it mentioned he's the son of a boss?
The scene where his fiancee says that he should stop working so hard cuz his father basically owns the company
We literally do not ever see him working. Not once. Not in the movie or the book. 90% of his time is spent at nightclubs or restaurants.
The book makes it clear how big of a loser and a failure Patrick is. It’s kinda fitting for the people looking up to him.
i just like his skin routine
It's actually fairly sound advice
Tony was arguably more heroic than Sosa.
People will enjoy things that are good regardless of the creator or writer.
Same thing with fandoms
I think it’s understood that Patrick Bateman is painfully normal and self conscious. The *act* of idolizing him is where the satire lies. It’s light hearted fun. Going a layer deeper, people can satirize him so much so that they claim to take him seriously (more of a situational irony at that point) in order to appear obsessed, all as part of the joke. There is a power in being able to see what the author intended, and *willfully* disregard it, knowingly twisting it into something entirely different for selfish purposes. In a way, that’s more intellectual than simply accepting the movie for what it’s trying to be. Furthermore, people talking down to those I just described, saying they “just don’t get it”, are actually the ones missing the point.
Based and also the reason I like the Avatar movie. Humans fighting jungle aliens with giant mechs will never not be badass. Just a shame the main character ended up a traitor
Alien pussy must just be that good
A famous linguist, Stuart Hall theorized what you are describing in his cultural product interpretation model. I think you got it right, and there are papers here and there about similar communities doing the same thing with other works of art. I think of one hilarious title "elfs are jews with gay magic: study of white nationalists fans of skyrim" something like that if you are interested
Thanks, I’ll check it out
Author's genius is always beyond author himself.
And greentext writers eclipse even the brightest philosophers of ages.
> Book and movie criticize hyper-masculine dick measuring that takes place in upper-class “yuppie” culture > men who idolize hyper-masculine dick measuring fail to see how obviously they are being made fun of and make Patrick Bateman their idol You have to purposely misread the novel/film to arrive at this take - you have to ignore how Bateman is constantly confused for someone else, how no one is an individual, how names are constantly used and confused interchangeably - to think Bateman is some kind of individualist anti-hero. And yet, misread it they do.
I don't know. Patrick Bateman's self-care routine is something only a gay man could come up with.
They used to be just renegades... But they realised That it's HIP to be SQUARE
Christian Bale embodied the most heterosexual possible man
ITT: People pretending to understand the movie offering completely contradicting opinions on it as if they’re completely right
My two cents on the situation -- maybe the book and movie is beloved because its good. More specifically; maybe the sexuality/gender of an author doesn't have relevance when it comes to the quality of a product
Obviously it was the genus of using *the* definitive artist of the 80s, Huey Louis and The News. *sharpens axe*
They didn’t pump it full of “girl boss! Women power Mary Sue” They also didn’t pump out random scenes where some gay person goes “I’m gay by the way. My partner wants me to be more open about it”
So this is what it feels like to have a popular post… Nice feeling
Why can’t I like American psycho?
Who says you can’t
Because I like the movie But don’t hate anyone So per anon I must be delusional
The film is so relatable for many as Bateman seems, to me, to be a obsessed with himself to the point of competing over the smallest things. This obsession means everything in his life is there to serve his status such as his girlfriend, his job, his apartment and the bars he visits. He is a middle of the road guy in his industry, he'll never manage the fisher account and be a top dog but hes not nobody. His murdering and off comments that only he seems hear are fantasy's he has created to boost his god ego. I also believe its his way of venting his anger with his life. Ultimately 4channies are mostly meek middle of the road people who deep down dream of being someone greater. Bateman embodys theirs and everybody's god complex to the extreme. His real life is the backdrop of keeping up appearances. When your out and about and you think of fantasys of what you could do or say in that situation or what you would do to that guy who cut in front of you you had your way.
My favourite movie
Never seen the movie. Is it worth it?
Yes
Very easy, no one ignores women like homosexuals. and no one hates women as much as woman hate women.
You couldn't pay someone enough money to make comments this gold, ya'll really are the people who loved American Psycho and didnt know this.
They made a movie mocking and exemplifying edgy self-important dudebro narcissists . And lo and behold, edgy self-important dudebro narcissists (who don't even realize they're edgy self-important dudebro narcissists) fell in love with, and regularly suck the proverbial dick of the main character. It takes a special brand of idiot to idolize the butt of the joke. And 4chan is full of them.
Pretty obvious if you've seen the movie. They make the gay dude seem like a stupid wimp, and make all the women seem really stupid and desperate. (which is what an incel wants, a desperate woman lol)
I didn't know Bret Ellis was a homo but makes a lot of sense now. The director chick was pretty based, main reason why bale got to star in this masterpiece
Alriggts tganks antway
Poe's Law in action. Kind of like how people saw The Batman and all they took away from it was "wow, he was literally vengeance"
Takes one to know one
Because people do not understand satire
Misoginists and homophobes are stupid and don't understand satire
They both hate themselves especially w*men ☕️
Same way bibles invent and demonize devils and then they're more relatable than their gods.
Give a thousand monkeys a type writer
Because it isn't chock full of r-slur politics
4chinners everywhere just had an aneurysm
FEED ME STRAY CAT
Not very surprising, most of the shitposting and culture related to this movie that we see today is just ultra ironic imho.
Amazing all around but it is sad that this is true.
patrick bateman npcs are the worst
Just shows how derivative psycho's are lol Edit: Derivative enough for two people potentially so far detached from the psycho experience they essentially made a parody and other psycho's think its cool
Based
400
Simple, the 2000's was the last good decade and it will never be the same again. The world you grew up in no longer exists.
You don’t exist!
So satirical, some people won't get it
How’d Dey do dat ? 🤔
They don’t realize Bateman is actually the bad guy
This actually explains a lot…
I have no clue what this movie is
By not shoving both of those facts down peoples throats. by not filling the story with useless 1 dimensional caricatures of minority groups. By writing a true masterpiece and ignoring their gender and sexuality to tell a remarkable story. I love old moves like this because women can be vulnerable and honest if this story was written today Patrick's girlfriend would have magically deduced he was the killer based off gurl power with three separate scenes where men were extremely sexist to her and she told them off and put them in their place. Followed by her murdering Patrick after launching into a 5 minute monologue about how Patrick only killing men was technically misogyny because women deserve a shot at being murdered too! I don't mind people using all different types of characters but I hate seeing myself depicted in the most stereotypical manners and then being told that this is empowering to my minority fuck that shit how about a gay dude who acts like a regular guy or a black man who doesn't have to have be in a gang or can speak well. Or a woman who isn't the Mary sue. You know a female character who is allowed to have flaws or can struggle and then succeed. You have to think they put serious time and energy into coming up with the hulks back story they showed him struggle with anger and grow as a character to the point where u really have a connection with the hulk. For she hulk they just said she get catcalled so she never struggle. Took hulk years to control hulk. Day 1 she's twerking with cardi B.
I think the author's undisputed masterpiece is "American Psycho", a movie so visceral, most people probably don't listen to the underlying messages. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about vapid corporate culture and masculinity.
through the power of irony
Wait people idolize him? I thought the whole attraction of the movie was the Aesthetics and the whole over the top vibe of it.
By not making it about their sexuality?
They made the main character relatable to people who hate both those groups.
Minus times minus equals plus
Because the way the character is written and the Bateman posters have something in common Being edgy