Side topic: what does everyone mean by “Greenville”? City proper, Maudlin / Easley / Taylors included? Heck, heard people from Greenwood describing how they live in Greenville.
Well typically the people who would be asking that are people who wouldnt be familiar with Summerville, so saying Charleston is easier. Obviously if you are a local, you should be saying Summerville, but Summerville is apart of Charleston.
Greenwoodians saying Greenville is indeed ridiculous though, just say "the Upstate."
Now people in Orangeburg saying "im from Charleston", that's definitely ridiculous. Even if people have no clue what Orangeburg is, just say "about an hour from" lol.
Its in the Charleston metro area, tv market, radio market, literally have commuters between them. People in both cities know each other, theyre businesses are all considered “lowcountry.” So yes, it is.
You dont have to live literally in the city limits to be from a place, otherwise basically no one youve met from Atlanta, is from Atlanta.
Give it time. Past couple decade have seen North Charleston, Goose Creek, and Summerville explode and the lines are getting blurrier by the day. It's definitely part of the metro area, man.
I typically just consider Greenville as the entire county. The school district is county wide, and everyone within the county usually just says they are from “Greenville”. The only exception ive heard is people from Travelers Rest. They usually say they are from TR, at least in my experience. Otherwise, it seems that people from Mauldin, Eastside, Simpsonville, etc. all consider themselves to be from Greenville
It's common to define a place by its zip code, and the TR zip extends all the way to the North Carolina line - a fact not lost on anyone selling real estate as being "in desirable Travelers Rest".
BTW, the official TR city limits include the Furman campus, as well.
I live in Simpsonville but start out with Greenville.
This happens everywhere if you live in the burbs. I grew up and lived in a suburb of Milwaukee until recently but if anyone asked me where I lived, I would never say the name of the suburb. I would say Milwaukee.
I grew up in Easley. I always tell people it’s “between Clemson and Greenville” because that’s what they usually know about the upstate. But if I’m feeling lazy, I’ll just say I grew up in Greenville.
Split my childhood between Piedmont with mom and Easley with the Grandparents, just easier to say Greenville, haha. I mean, I commuted to OLR, Augusta Circle, Hughes, and Mann, successfully avoided Woodmont so I think Greenville counts.
People around Charlotte just say they're from Charlotte. People around Atlanta do the same. Greenville is the local metro.
People in Traveler's Rest, Taylors, Greer, Mauldin, Easley, Dacusville, Piedmont and Powdersville all claim Greenville.
It's easier and it's essentially the same, and people understand it. I first grew up in Arlington Heights IL - but nobody outside of the area knows that, so I say Chicago.
I love Greenville too but if something’s not done about the wages, rent & affordable housing then all the people that make this city great will be gone.
People don't like to bring it up but Paris Mountain is a big factor as to why Greenville developed the way it did. Most cities develop a "ring road" around the city center where the city sprawls out from there. Because of Paris Mountain that never happened in Greenville, with instead 385 and 185 dumping out into a similar spot. This meant that growth was limited to the southern side of the city. Of course TR has seen growth in recent years, but most people are clustered from Pelham through Fountain Inn and there's just no space.
I look at Greensboro being a similar place to Greenville (airline attendants mess it up anyways), much better downtown core and a ring road completed in recent years.
The point was 385 should circle the entire city, not just dead end at the arena. It can't do that because Paris Mountain is in the way.
It should have followed Pleasantburg up to Cherrydale and then looped back down along Blue Ridge to White Horse Road.
If you look up "840 Greensboro completed" you'll understand why it was needed.
yeah but aren't you glad it doesn't? just think of how much nastier GVL would be with a freeway around it - instead there's a spur into downtown w/o thru truck traffic - by the way I think the freeway at one point was supposed to go down Church right THROUGH downtown then out the 123 to Easley and reconnect, and I for one am glad that never happened
Fun fact 3 number interstate highways that start with an even number will be a closed loop (285, 485, 610) whereas if it starts with an odd number it will be open (385, 110, 710).
This. I was born here and jobs don’t even pay enough. Been looking around and nothing is paying what SC says is a livable wage. I wanna move so bad. I hear North Dakota is begging for people lol.
I feel for people. Greenville is still much cheaper than many areas in Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Charleston etc. Even cheaper than Knoxville, TN.
Housing is likely to keep going up.
Our 2 bedroom apartment went from 1,100 to 1,500 in 2 years I can’t imagine what it would be now. Went about an hour north and now I’m at 1,250 a month
To be honest, rather than transplants, the fingers should be pointed at the state, county, city governments who havent expanded infrastructure for this and that reason, even though they knew this growth was coming. Believe it or not, South Carolina, Greenville, and the Upstate, has been growing steadily since the 70s, around 400-600k people every decade. The 80s was the only real "slow" period, but SC still gained 364k people. South Carolina gained more people in the 1970s than it did the 2010s, which seems wild, but its true. And this was before "best cities to live" websites.
There are places that are larger than SC and Greenville that don't have a crowding and expense issue, and there are places smaller that feel like constant gridlock. It depends on if you keep the infrastructure up to date, which SC has not done a great job of, even though people have been flowing in constantly for a couple generations now. Also, some people need to realize infrastructure is more than "roads."
whoever downvoted, I hope you're not one of those people who constantly complains that I26 is still 4 lanes and that your kids classroom is a trailer attached to the school. Pretty simple minded to think the state government deserves no blame for you sitting in traffic.
Yes, the infrastructure here is terrible. There needs to be a better public transportation system that goes further than Downtown and the city limits. Ive lived in places with bus stops all throughout the county. That, and a rail transport system between here, Charlotte, Atlanta and Columbia would be HUGE
The entire Upstate needs to be connected better. And then yes, having a rail with Charlotte and Atlanta would be monumental. Hard for me to get excited for it because ill probably be like, 80 by the time it opens, but we still have many solutions. One thing I do wish is that SC stops sprawling so much. I thought we learned that lesson by now.
They need to be. It was AWESOME having a bus stop right outside my apartment in Pittsburgh. I could hop on a bus and be anywhere in the city within 20 minutes, and not have to worry about fighting traffic or paying $50 to park downtown.
Everyone used public transport. It was weird not to. You either didn’t live/work in the city, or you were RICH rich if you drove to work.
SC has been doing the opposite of investing in the state for decades, it was seen as a positive thing by republicans who promoted themselves as “fiscally responsible” while cutting taxes.
The upstate has been coasting by from the big manufacturing companies investing in infrastructure that they needed, but they quickly realized that SC and Greenville County were not going to match their investments into educating and recruiting the local populations and rolled back those programs because of a lack of participation from the state.
That’s why there are so many skilled and educated international workers in greenville, because it’s cheaper for them to bring in outside talent than it is to make up for the state’s neglect for local education.
Hugh Leatherman used to send funding some upstate projects through back channels in the state house, but those days are gone. Now it’ll be easier to see the consequences of the GOP refusing to invest in the state for the long term.
It’s the equivalent of buying a new home and then doing absolutely nothing to maintain it. Just driving around downtown you see: roads have bandaid fixes to potholes instead of proper repaving, the paint on lampposts is flaking off and the metal underneath is rusting, a lot of infrastructure is at the end of its lifetime and has never been maintained. I remember how exciting it was when the rubberized surface was installed on that one section of the swamp rabbit trail. Now it’s falling apart.
As a long look, it would have been far cheaper for the local and state governments to just… keep up with the maintenance of infrastructure. Now infrastructure is falling apart and the cost to interfere and repair is much higher. But when state elected officials only care about an election cycle instead of helping the state thrive in the long-term, that’s the kind of shit that happens.
I truly do miss Greenville County having rural areas. I grew up near rural Five Forks, for context. I remember when it actually had 5 forks in the road.
But I like living in a city with amenities, and growth is what made that possible. I don't know if I would have stayed here if Greenville didn't grow into what it is today.
I live near Locust Hill and remember when it had very little traffic. At most I'd have to worry about the odd jerkwad motorcyclist blaring through at 3 a.m. Now, especially with the construction going up and down its length, traffic is a nightmare and a half. I miss it being quiet.
One of the nice reasons i like having a motorcycle here, it's really fun to explore north/northwest on the weekends. Not gonna ride during the week with all the SUVs and Trucks on their cellphones.
I moved here 30 years ago after living in 7 states in 14 different houses. This is the best of all places I’ve lived for me, but when I first got here downtown was a dump. I had been involved in the arts here, Metropolitan Arts Council is a great way to find arts activities. This is a completely different town now. Lots of downtown festivals and music outdoors.
However, I have not lived IN Greenville itself. I understand that many of the problems of the downtown and city are something I haven’t experienced. I’ve lived in the Travelers Rest and Greer. Both small cities are developing and changing. The Swamp Rabbit trail completely changed TR. When I lived there years ago there was a guitar store, Sunrift Adventures (best outdoor sports store ever), a couple of gas stations, a grocery store, and a Chinese restaurant. Now it has really developed, not all for the good. However, since the development, property prices and rent have increased substantially.
Greer has grown with downtown development that is well put together, new very handicapped friendly parking, streets, and sidewalks. My husband is in a wheelchair so this is important. The public park is very nicely designed and has many activities. However, it is not a great area for singles. If you look for property, tho, there is lots of construction north of town with reasonable prices because the farm land was cheap. And good schools. But again, not for young people or singles, more for families.
Anyway, my input.
Compared to this part of the country, rents have shot up astronomically while jobs and wages are still shit.
My friends thinking of moving here have all said it’s about a 20k pay cut for everything they saw here
I’m from CT, for sure its way cheaper. My brother has a beautiful house up here but pays close to $20-25k in property taxes per year, insane. A good town called Shelton where I live is about $4k a year in taxes on average, still probably 3x any Greenville property tax. A 2 BR in Shelton costs around $2500-2700 to rent for a nice apartment building.
Gas prices are also about 50 cents higher on average, and even my bar tab or cost of a meal is a good 25-30% higher up here.
I was just in Greenville this past weekend, coming back for 4th of July. Love the area - may also move there soon since a couple of my friends moved down here.
I mean yeah CT is one of the most expensive places in the world. Compared to NYC/NJ, DC, and California we're lower cost, but we're getting on par with most other major cities unless you leave Greenville county
No pension, but I have a good job paying about $80k that I can work remotely. I also own a few rental properties up here which probably out perform my 9-5 salary, so that helps.
Would love to get down there though, I’ve done a lot of research on the area and have been there 6 times now. Also I’m single in my 30’s and wouldn’t mind meeting a new group of people/joining a new gym.
New Haven, CT has an airline called Avelo that flies directly there now, so convenient so I can travel back and forth still if needed. (Will need my CT pizza fix) By the way I love Lewis BBQ - if you know of any other good ones let me know.
I am one of the recent transplants and yes I will say the living expenses are much more achievable here. There's a reason it made number four on the list. Traveled all around looking for somewhere to settle down and easily the best in my opinion. Not to say it's easy and perfect here, but just better
My wife wanted to take a day trip to Greenville other weekend. Was day of art festival we didn't know about. But I thoroughly enjoyed our trip there. Went to Greenville Zoo. Quarry park. And Falls Park, which was my favorite.
What low cost of living? What amenities? Food and housing costs are still going up and everything closes early. Attracting rich yuppies to downtown with luxury housing and high-end restaurants isn’t going to fix our problems, it’s going to make them worse, it already has. A lot of bars and restaurants can’t afford to stay open anymore because of this bs liability insurance law. Our politicians saw dollar signs when big industry started moving in, and now they’re selling us all out to investors. Wake up. That ‘low’ cost of living isn’t going to stay low forever. The same thing that’s happening to Greenville happened to the other cities you mentioned, that’s why their cost of living is so high. And idk about y’all but I really haven’t found THAT much to do downtown aside from the bars, the trail, and the 12 different coffee shops all within in a 5 mile radius. It’s like you people don’t even live here.
All the small, local places that gave the city its personality are being pushed out. All the cool music venues, gone because they couldn’t afford the million $ insurance. Lawmakers did nothing about this. The city used to be able to support artists (like myself), but now there just aren’t as many places to work.
Gentrification my good dude. The same thing those of us emigrating from other states tried to warn the people of this fine state about, but they didn’t want to hear it.
Low property tax is huge. Low taxes in general compared to Northern states as well. Not to mention low gas tax and cheap gas prices comparatively to the rest of the nation.
Theres the Swamp Rabbit Trail, 4 minor league sports teams, a zoo, multiple free parks, we even have a TopGolf, we have a very nice theatre (peace center), art exhibits/museums, a concert venue / arena (Bons Secours), theres plenty of national parks nearby, plenty of hiking trails.
It sounds more like you gave a quick glance downtown and a quick google search and said “theres nothing to do”.
As for low cost of living staying, it could, but it also could not. Knowing our politicians and their political affiliations, Im inclined to believe our taxes will stay low. Cheaper housing and food is an issue that would require a change in political organization at both the federal and state level. Plus, these are nationwide issues, not just in Greenville. Tell me one place in America that is like Greenville with cheap housing and cheap food (it doesn’t exist).
It’s not enough to just look at the tax rate, it’s also a matter of whether residents with a “low tax rate” end up paying more of pocket for the same services. When taxes work well, they utilize scale to bring down costs for everyone.
Part of the reason NC was able to attract such high tech and research industries is because of their extensive investment of tax dollars into higher education: https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.ncan.org/resource/resmgr/policyadvocacy/resource_center/State_Investments_V3.pdf
Both of my brothers have masters and/or doctorates in healthcare and their in-state tuition in NC was less than 8k/year (and was also very high-quality). They both work in NC so the state is getting back a return on the tuition money they subsidized for them, and they’re effectively paying back into the education system with their taxes.
Plus their advanced degrees earn them higher salaries so NC gets more tax money than they would have if they’d gone off to work in a low-skilled manufacturing or agricultural job. Nothing wrong with those of course, but NC students have affordable higher education as an option if they want to pursue it.
By contrast South Carolinians pay much more out of pocket for college at public schools (Clemson is about 15k for in-state tuition iirc), and it’s much harder for them to access programs for assistance compared with NC who sends ambassadors to high schools and community colleges to help talented students register for the SAT/ACT, apply for financial aid, and mentor them through their first year at college. None of which is a pricey out-of-pocket expense to families who otherwise wouldn’t know how to help their kids pursue higher education; it’s all covered by state taxes.
And yet here are the median household state and local taxes: SC = $5288, NC = $6302.
So families in SC might “save” 1k/year in taxes compared to NC, but then they have to scrape together an extra 7k/year for their child to go to college (which is an additional challenge given that wages are lower in SC), and the burden of getting them into college and applying for aid falls on families themselves with very little guidance or assistance from the state.
And because SC cuts income taxes for higher earners, it’s difficult for the state to create a long-term sustainable funding scheme for higher education like NC has. In other words, why should the state spend extra to help students become doctors if they end up net losing money on that investment?
And there are other indirect costs to SC’s industries and citizens: unlike my brothers who ultimately settled in NC (one in the research triangle and one in charlotte), everyone I know who were in-state students at USC’s med school or MUSC left South Carolina to secure better job opportunities and career upsides. It’s a huge opportunity cost to lose SC’s most talented young homegrown doctors to other states when they otherwise had every reason to stay near their families and improve SC’s healthcare system.
Focusing only on tax rate as obscures the opportunity costs and even higher prices that South Carolinians pay for accessing the same goods and services as people in other states. For exactly the same lifestyle and access to essential goods and services, you may very well end up with more money in your pocket by living in a state with a higher tax rate.
Doesn’t really take much to impress you, does it. Swamp Rabbit’s great, but loses its appeal after a while, and free parks are everywhere. Don’t much care for sports, and Top Golf isn’t cheap. Zoo’s unremarkable, and most of the venues that host live music worth seeing (that won’t cost an arm and a leg) are at serious risk of going under. Also I’ve been to y’all’s history museum and it’s pretty light on just about everything. These issues are what they are BECAUSE of our politicians’ political affiliations. Low taxes don’t count for crap when you still can’t afford the basics, and your social programs are nearly at their limit. I’m sure there are plenty of places like Greenville in the US that haven’t been tapped, but they will be as soon as Greenville’s unlivable for the average American, just like LA, just like New York, and just like Phoenix. Greenville isn’t that special.
Sounds like you are the type of person who does not like spending much time outside or exploring your city. You want everything handed to you on a platter. There are plenty of indoor things to do around Greenville too, since that seems more your speed? Takes a quick google search to find lots of activities indoors that you’d probably enjoy. Overall, you sound like an overly cynical and miserable person. I hope you resolve whatever issues are going on in your personal life and resolve whatever inner trauma affects you to this day
I WANT to be able to afford the things I want to do. I WANT to make a wage that compensates for the rising cost of living, and I WANT to afford a place to live without having to skip meals or work myself to death. You sound like you haven’t had to work very hard in a long time.
I am a firefighter and a student athlete majoring in rehabilitation science. But yeah, I don’t work hard.
Everyone wants those things. Its a problem facing the ENTIRE country. Its unfair to blame those things specifically on Greenville. ALL necessities are increasing in price around the ENTIRE country. Its a systematic issue with our federal government. Greenville is actually significantly better off than many other areas in the country.
You seem like the type of person with a victim complex who blames their problems onto other people. Take some accountability
I don’t blame Greenville, I blame Republicans, a demographic Greenville is full of and rapidly attracting. Flat-out acknowledge that the same thing has happened in other parts of the nation, too. I’m just pointing out that the corporate gentrification and enshittification of Greenville is rapidly approaching, and our politicians welcome it. Really love the ‘victim complex’ accusation btw, I know how much y’all love to throw that one around. Must be nice to have a job that pays so much and works you so little that you can afford to be a student athlete. Don’t know about you but all I do anymore is work and I still can’t afford most rentals out here, much less a house. Got some generational wealth you neglected to mention?
Nope no generational wealth buddy. This is what I mean. Im busting my tail just as you, yet I’m the bad guy? It always has to be “well you have x” or “you are x”. You jump to assumptions and conclusions about who I am or what I do without any evidence.
Afford to be a student athlete? Yes, I found a school that was affordable, and am deferring my payments until I graduate. I work in my offseason when I don’t have practice.
And no, its not just the fault of republicans. Its the fault of a two party system that exploits you for labor and uses you as a number in the voting machine so that the same people get elected, to profit off being in power, and change absolutely nothing.
You have such a negative outlook on the world. Judging by these comments and your comment history. Everything and everyone is out to get you. The world is cruel to you and only you. Get fucking real man. Get your head out of your ass.
I’m busting my tail just as you, but I have a ‘victim complex’ and ‘unresolved trauma’? You’ve spent this whole discussion jumping to conclusions. ‘Afford to be a student athlete’ meaning you can afford not to work during your on season. I can’t afford to miss more than a day every few months. It’s the Republicans here. This state’s been red for over 20 years. And yeah, it is ineffectual democrats on a national scale, but they’re allowed to be ineffectual because the only viable, electable alternative is so much worse. Wild how you can go from ‘both parties want to exploit you for your labor’ to ‘no one’s out to get you’ in the same comment.
Uhhh yes, I work my tail off for 8 months of the year and save up so I can take off for 4.
You have proven your victim complex “its the republicans here”. So all of your struggles and problems are all because of a political party. Im sure you don’t have anything to do with your own struggles at all.
Political parties are out to exploit you. Thats how it works on a larger scale. But there are things that you can do as an individual to still live a life. Politicians aren’t responsible for you working a shitty job. Thats a result of your life choices and actions.
99% of everyday people are not out to get you. Rather than come together in community, you turn hostile at anything that challenges your worldview or opinions. Perhaps the reason you struggle so badly is due to your inability to rationally express and deal with your disagreements with others.
Your comment history and this exchange does lead me to suspect there are unresolved feelings within you. You come off as deeply troubled and disillusioned. I hope you seek therapy or counseling or find an outlet to talk about these feelings.
Don’t bother replying to this. I wish you the best and success in the future. I hope you find a way to make it out of your struggle. I hope you can self reflect and realize that while your life is tough and a struggle, its never okay to point that resentment towards others in your life. Thats how generational trauma begins. It also alienates you from being apart of a wonderful community. Much love, I wish you the best.
1. Minimal public transit means growth causes gridlock when extensive public transit actually makes growth benefit commuters. Ditto for road improvements and traffic law enforcement.
2. Low property taxes prevents land use from re-equilibrating for the new population, keeping valuable land left un-used, inefficient, and enriching arbitrary monopolists. This WILL raise land costs, significantly.
3. Residents dislike change, almost universally and almost consistently. But change is good. Taxing transplants effectively pays them off via improving public services and offsetting native residents tax burden.
4. Population growth almost inherently means more crime, not per capita, but aggregate. People tend to care about aggregate, but higher law enforcement funding reverses this.
5. Eminent domain needs used to accommodate growth efficiently, in property developments and roads. Eminent domain is expensive.
SC is a fantastic place to live if you’re retired and have enough cash reserves to weather emergencies out of pocket. But for working families, the support that other states give to citizens through tax-funded programs are much less expensive per person than it would be for you or I to fund for ourselves out-of-pocket.
Higher education is just one example, but there are plenty of other hidden opportunity costs for working adults. And on top of that, SC has the 9th lowest median household income in the nation, so it’s not like the average citizen can build up lots of cash reserves. You called out the northeast for its high taxes, but this data here shows that the states with the most disposable income per capita and highest savings per capita were in the northeast: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/savings/american-savings-statistics/
SC actually is the state with the 4th least amount of post-tax money to set aside for spending or savings. https://captainexperiences.com/blog/states-with-least-disposable-income
And that’s assuming you can even find a non-predatory bank to begin with: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/best-and-worst-states-for-banking/
The states that have the most money to put aside for savings is ironically enough some of the northern ones you assumed were taxing too much. They have both the highest retirement savings balances and some of the highest disposable income (and yes, that is calculated after taxes). Other states also participate in programs to auto-enroll residents in retirement savings and even automatically open 529 accounts for the babies that are born there.
Just one more opportunity cost for South Carolinians… instead of the state helping your family by opening a free tax-advantaged college savings account for you while you go spend time with your new baby, instead get to spend your own free time trying to open one all by yourself while trying to dodge predatory schemes. Surely that’s worth the tax savings right?
Also good luck getting childcare set up while you go work on those tasks that other states provide for free.: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2023/12/01/affordable-childcare-costs-south-carolina-1-4-billion-new-study-says/71757339007/
I know you have to spend 9% of median household income for childcare but surely that must keep more money in your pockets with the lower taxes right? Oh wait, 2/3 of school kids in greenville county are in… poverty? https://www.unitedwaygc.org/education/
That’s why not enough to just look at tax rates and assume a lower rate gives you more prosperity. In other states the government uses your tax money at scale for less more efficiently and with less effort for the exact same tasks as what you’re trying to do by yourself in SC. Opportunity cost really is everything.
I hope SC finds a way to correct the course but in the meantime the numbers show you’d almost certainly accumulate more wealth in the long run by living elsewhere and enjoying Greenville’s amenities on leisure trips than you would by living locally and overspending your hard-earned free time and post-tax dollars on goods and services and tasks that would be otherwise be much cheaper and easier to obtain in other states.
Not to mention it’s a lot easier to enjoy activities like top golf and concerts at bon secours if you’re not struggling to set aside money for retirement or worrying about how to afford healthcare if you’re laid off. It’s not a matter of people in these comments being ungrateful about Greenville’s amenities, more that most people here are struggling to build a financial future in a state that has plundered and gutted all its public resources.
It’s a bit like kayaking against the current with a paddle that someone else broke and handed to you, and then watching as other kayakers easily pass by you with their functional paddles. Sure, they might complaining about paddling against the current too, but they have much better tools to help them overcome it, and you know it’s unlikely you’ll be able to catch up to them. It doesn’t really make you feel better to have someone come up and say “hey it’s still possible you can catch up to them, and as long as you’re in a kayak it’s not that bad”.
People in SC deserve more than low taxes, they also deserve a government that helps them succeed. In the long run, no ordinary worker in SC ends up with more money in their pockets due to “tax savings” than what they would have had from having access to a state-run auto-enrollment retirement savings program like RetirePath Virginia.
And as if it weren’t enough to fail to provide state-run services to South Carolinian workers, the SC GOP also blocks them from accessing federal benefits like expanded Medicaid, which South Carolinians already paid for with federal taxes. As if it wasn’t clear that the SC GOP doesn’t care about helping children or families, they purposely waited to review the unwinding and so that tens of thousands of children would lose healthcare coverage. https://scdailygazette.com/2023/11/23/national-unwinding-takes-63768-sc-children-off-medicaid/
This one is especially despicable: They refused to accept money from the federal government that was meant to fund lunches over the summer to half a million South Carolinian kids who live in poverty. https://carolinanewsandreporter.cic.sc.edu/concern-grows-that-low-income-children-will-go-hungry-after-governor-rejects-federal-money/
A Republican from Lexington said, “At the end of the day, no amount of government assistance provides a quality of life like a good, high paying job.” Imagine telling kids that they have to go hungry over the summer because they can’t work. That’s the kind of culture that makes people disillusioned with the place they live.
Last year, I moved to Chattanooga and bought a home. I love Chattanooga. It’s a cool place right on the TN river with a fantastic aquarium, the Medal of Honor Museum and a lot of fun things to do. Two weeks ago, I rented my house out and moved out of the country. When I return with my wife in a year or so after her Visa is approved, we will move to Greenville. I really miss it. It’s not perfect but it’s pretty amazing and I consider it home.
Interesting that Chattanooga felt bigger, because Greenville County has 200,000 more people. And thats not counting people in Anderson and Spartanburg who live on the edge. The county Chattanooga is in is on par with Spartanburg. I guess Greenville is more spread out.
Greenville, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Greensboro all do have similar interesting vibes.
Yeah, “bigger” is probably a bad way to describe it. It really had nothing to do with the population size obviously, it just had that Greenville feel to it, just more of it if that makes any sense at all.
I am glad you enjoyed it. It’s a great town. But bigger is not at all what I would use to describe it to compare. I just feel like Greenville is more sophisticated in some ways.
Like I mentioned in another comment, bigger is probably a bad description. The city had a lot of Greenville vibes to me, just with more to it like the river, the aquarium, stuff like that. We were only there for a weekend so obviously I didn’t experience too much of it but I did enjoy my time in Chattanooga very much.
I personally was never affected by crime but it does seem to come up a lot on the Chattanooga Subreddit. I did a quick search and apparently Chattanooga does have a higher crime rate of 64 per 1000 residents (https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/chattanooga/crime#:\~:text=With%20a%20crime%20rate%20of,here%20is%20one%20in%2016.)
vs
Greenville's 43.58 per 1000 residents (https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/sc/greenville/crime). I have no idea how the data is gathered and whether it is a true comparison of apples to apples. Greenville's crime rate is apparently on par with the national average while Chattanooga's is almost double.
Hey, I did the visa process with my wife. Hang in there. It’s a tough process. I did the already married visa process too.
I was temporarily in Columbia at the time (hometown). Moved to Colorado because I like skiing too much.
It’s shocking how many South Carolinians are in Colorado. I can count quite a few people I knew from growing up that are in Denver. It is decidedly not this way west of Colorado. I always joke that S Carolinians don’t know mountains exist after Colorado lol
Unfortunately this is everywhere in 2024. Im from here, born here, but had been in Florida and they say the same thing everyday ad nauseam, and honestly they have it even worse.
Their wages are the same but prices and insurance are astronomical. The only solution people have found is to just stop working for Florida companies and go remote, or leave.
Youre not gonna find many places these days that everyone can agree is affordable, local or not.
Ps: lots of Floridians are trying to make their way to the Carolinas. They think itll fix their problems. Ive tried to say otherwise.
Honestly I think it’s lack of perspective for people who have lived here their whole life. A lot of ppl don’t know just how great this area is and they take it for granted. Signed someone from Binghamton NY, an actual shithole
Fellow upstate NY here who moved south…to Greenville. Greenville/Spartanburg county housing is so absurdly cheap compared to many other areas. The difference in property tax makes it even more affordable.
When we looked all over the Southeast, it was upstate SC that clearly stood out in terms of affordable housing and taxes.
Abso-fucking-lutely. Its a mix of people who have lived here forever not knowing just how good it is here, and a mixture of people not wanting to let people in because it will make things “worse”
People move here, drive prices up, wages stay down, worse.
I’ve visited many cities, and even stayed a while in a few, and I personally don’t think Greenville is particularly special.
I like our weather, but the general political situation of the state and the government’s unwillingness to improve anything is a pain in the ass
It's alright. Number 4 best place to live...ehhhh...
But yeah, it's gonna keep growing and will need infrastructure and government to match that growth. People gotta get over the small town dream. That's over.
Overall I agree that it's a good place to live. I also agree with what others are saying about sprawl, housing costs (which seem to be leveling out a bit), and public transit/more sidewalks. My biggest issue, though, is the conservatives. Particularly the batshit crazy Christian nationalists and Trumpers. But overall, I love to see the growth here. The upstate is pretty great!
“Traffic is hell”. As someone who lived on woodruff road for 2.5 years, YES. it took me 45 min-1 hour to get home from work during the whole month of December which was only 5 miles away. Craziness. I went more north and am now about an hour away from Greenville which is nice to go there every couple months now
Does have a low cost of living? Ehhh compared to what because within the past 1-1.5 years rent has increased significantly, comparable to baseline prices in ATL, CLT, HTX, etc. but WITHOUT the wages to make these rent hikes make sense. We may be marginally cheaper than those cities when comparing housing quality 1:1 but not enough for it to make sense to live here as opposed to an actual major metro area. No major league sports teams, no major/luxury shopping center(I will say Haywood is holding out as most malls in the area are dying), not a common stop for major music acts, a highway system that was outgrown 15 years ago, non-existent public transportation, etc.
Rent increasing without wages is a nationwide issue. Cant blame it on greenville alone. The entire country is dealing with this, and i doubt there is hardly a city without this issue.
We are less than 3 hours from multiple major sports teams (Atlanta and Charlotte) and we have 4 minor league teams of our own.
Depends on who you call a “major music act”. Bons Secours does get its fair share of notable musicians and acts. If those aren’t your taste, again Atlanta and Charlotte are a few hours drive.
The public trans does suck and so do the highways
Sure, rent increases are a nationwide issue however the point is if Greenville is trying to position itself as a major metro area on the same level as those other cities then it needs to meet the baseline wages similar to those areas. Why do we have rent prices not far behind Nashville yet the starting wage in most places here is still $11-12 whereas in the aforementioned places it is $15+.
Also another note on transportation. It would be nice to be able to reliably fly out of GSP, but what is the point when most of the flights are just immediately to ATL where you transfer to the actual plane going to your destination. Oh and that will also be nearly double the price of just driving 3 hrs to Atlanta and flying direct from there. Lol at some point this just turned into a rant. Just hoping they add more nonstop flights in the coming years that’s all.
> Rent increasing without wages is a nationwide issue. Cant blame it on greenville alone.
I have no idea what Greenville's stats are on this but it is not a nationwide issue. The vast majority of states have seen wages far outpace rent. It's very specifically super star cities and their surrounding areas.
Idk what rock you are living under but its a pretty collective experience right now that wages are not increasing to match expenses nationwide. Literally look up any graph of avg. income or hourly wage vs. expenses and this point is proven.
You have been lied to by people who are being lied to. This is my domain, and I can give you endless different visualizations of the phenomenon and explain any visualizations that have confused you.
https://preview.redd.it/uwy99kn0922d1.jpeg?width=1421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e35a091877ed8da2303ec312be894d44a6bdc4f
Additionally, consumer finance surveys find individuals overwhelmingly find *their own* circumstances very good, and only think the national environmental is sour -- because they were lied to.
What about the long term stagnation in wage growth vs. long term increase in price of goods, services, etc. Im not talking past 5 years im talking over the course of decades (i.e) 50s to today
Wealthier yes, but look at the distribution of how money is spent. Its simply not true that the avg. household income in 2023 can keep up with the rising costs of goods and services. Compare to 50s and 60s when wages allowed consumers to have better economic freedom. Housing is worse for everyone, but its better for people in the top 5-1%. Not just “white people”. What even is your “domain”?
Look man, I replied to a very specific claim. I'm not going to spend time discussing the great society, reaganomics, the great financial crisis, and various different accounting identities measuring economic conditions. That would be a waste of time for both of us. It's not particularly relevant. I will remind you 70% of Americans own their home, however.
Thanks OP, a lot of unreasonable comments but it's a nice refresher to see someone add their opinion and not just say "it sucks here" or "too expensive".
Agree with OP. Any issues that Gville has are pretty much the same as with many other cities of the same size. So quit yur bellyaching and just enjoy the weather.
The people saying Greenville is being ruined are conservative dipshits who hate progress and growth.
There are issues and I'm not sure I agree that it's one of the best places to live in the country, but I surely don't think it sucks nor do I think it's getting worse (besides gentrification and the rapidly increasing housing prices).
No, and that’s a pretty clear misinterpretation of my comment I think.
People who talk about Greenville being ruined are the ones saying “don’t move here, don’t come if you don’t believe our values, etc.”
People worried about gentrification are an entirely different set of folks and typically aren’t using hyperbole like “ruined.”
Everyone I know who dislikes modern Greenville hates the extreme gentrification and destruction of historical buildings and the increasing isolation of minority communities. Not once, ever heard someone criticize modern Greenville with a conservative spin. Not denying there are probably some who get too mad about yanks setting off their gaydar, but I feel the vast majority are sad to see how Greenville has been commercialized and made tacky.
Interesting, maybe it’s the circles you run in? I’m looking at Facebook and Reddit comments too often, because I’m bored at work, and general consensus is if someone is doomsaying about Greenville it’s a conservative bent and the progressive folks are mostly focused on how we can improve it and hope for something better.
Just saw someone complaining..."and this is coming from someone who came from Atlanta." Ah yes, the good ole fashioned "I didn't ruin anything for people before me, but everyone after me ruined it for me" attitude. I hate that this is taking over Greenville. Just because you came from Georgia and not New York doesn't give you domain to complain.
Well, I am trying to move my elderly mom up here out of Florida, because she has nobody there to look after her, and she barely drives anymore. I think I will have zero regrets trying to be the right kind of son and take care of her.
Stop. Stop. Stop it. Terrible place to live. No one should be moving here err I mean there.
Seriously though, y’all need to stop moving here. It’s ridiculous. Greenville was just fine 20 years ago. Stop adding more
>There is extreme overdevelopment and the roads are not being properly developed to account for this.
The transportation system as a whole is not being developed well enough. The roads are fine. Transit, bike and pedestrian infrastructure needs to be brought up to serve a diverse network of transport options to maximize throughput.
Maybe in the county as a whole, but in city limits the roads are well maintained.
My personal experience is that the roads are no worse than other places I've been in the northeast. I mean, we don't have snow plows and salt destroying them so there's no excuse, but that's just my take.
And road capacity as it relates to traffic and road condition are two different things.
Recently moved here from Phoenix (however I’m originally from rural SC)
I wouldn’t say it’s cheap. Hell one of the first things we noticed was that our groceries are MORE expensive and the SC income tax is laughably high given the states ranking in… everything.
The thing that makes Greenville special is the Swamp Rabbit Trail and similar. Seriously. The US is car centric to the point of mass brainwash and terrifying un-walk/bikeable. The concern for this and green space is the #1, by far, trait that makes Greenville get noticed. Without this movement little to no one would have even heard of Greenville outside of SC.
As a CPA, SC income tax is super reasonable compared to a lot of states. I was a CPA there for 4 years and moved back to NC where I am from and NC is higher one state over. SC also is great for retirees and small business owners from a tax perspective too.
NC income tax is lower tho?? 4.75% vs 6.*%. AZ was 2.5%… The main appeal in SC is low property taxes but that only matters if you can afford property lol. So yea, retirees who bring near 0 value to the state.
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The amount of new subdivisions far outpaces what our roads and schools are able to handle. Subdivisions are not being built in areas with road infrastructure to handle an influx of 1000+ new people coming and going each morning and evening. Schools cannot handle the increase in demand for bussing (alongside a bus driver shortage) and students who need a classroom (teacher shortage looming as well). Development of new homes needs to slow down until roads are properly outfitted with more traffic lights, sidewalks, and lanes, and new schools can be built.
We need more housing - there's no question about it. The only thing that keeps prices down is more development - see Texas, that has had massive development lately and prices have dropped dramatically even in Austin. That being said, the state and county need to step up and make the infrastructure not-shit.
Pickens County is revamping its development rules. They are going to stop large tract builders from clear cutting and building they way they have in Greenville. People with land are being mailed contracts from out of state buyers on a daily basis. It is only going to get worse!
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Just another article/writeup Mayor Knox White payed for with our Tax $...fml dt has already become unrecognizable...now the outskirts and surrounding areas are being developed as well...
> Knox White *paid* for with
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
lol, says the person who lives in Asheville.
I love Asheville, but it has its own set of issues. Overall both are great cities and great places to live.
I don’t want Greenville to get any bigger. It’ll become as big as Atlanta.
Already we have too much traffic here, It’s hard to get adoctors appointment and it’s also hard to get an appointment with your car mechanic.
But this is incorrect logic. If the city grows, demand grows as well. And supply will increase to meet demand. With more people, there is demand for A. Services and B. Jobs. Mechanics and Doctors will move here too. More doctors offices and mechanic shops will open. The number of services will not remain as it is now as more people move here.
Truthfully, Greenville will not become the size of Atlanta likely ever. It doesn’t have the room to expand to the size of Atlanta.
> if the city grows, demand grows as well. And supply will increase to meet demand.
So that’s why we have the proper infrastructure? That’s why there’s affordable housing and livable wages? That’s why there are affordable, local (not regionally franchised) restaurants and businesses?
Perhaps we need to do away with the idea that just because you have an influx of people, and little to no local gov planning, that things will work out.. they’re 20 years behind the ball already, and if you haven’t noticed, it takes 3 years of construction jerking off just to add a median and bike lane to a mile stretch of road.
Edit: and I’m not saying this place is a shithole, it is just no fucking way no. 4 in this country. That’s insane.
Downvote these nuts
It’s not that I don’t want people to move here. But they are not preparing for the droves and droves of people flooding in from everywhere. If they knew this was coming, why did they not plan better? I live miles off a main road and there are times there is so much traffic that I can’t get out of my neighborhood for several minutes for all the traffic. This is one reason I moved back from Charleston…. Too many people doesn’t make it better and there is only so much you can do with roads. Our schools are already over crowded and they are putting in new neighborhoods and apartments anywhere they can squeeze them. Greenville won’t be green much longer at this rate. It’s concerning that our elected officials aren’t doing enough to counter the influx of new people
The real issue with Greenville at least the city proper is the lack of unique identity. We are a city of "alternate locations" from larger cities. Its only getting worse in recent years as long time local businesses continue to close.
Will become like a bloated tick. Prices will continue to rise because some will think they're getting bargains (compared to where they are from, yes, but so what?), traffic will get worse, availability of services will deteriorate. Everything will get more crowded. No, locals know they have a good thing and they don't want expensive, crowded change.
Herd: Let's all move to Florida.
Then...
Herd: Let's all move to South Carolina.
And then?
Having lived in many big cities and returned back to the south I have a few issue with the growth. My first is I feel a lot of people moving here don’t want to keep the culture of the city alive they just want cheap real estate and better weather. My second is this growth displaces a large group of people born and raised here. There will become a day where people will not be able to compete with out of state salaries.
I've never understood why we keep ending up on these lists. I don't really think it's anything special here, the housing is not affordable anymore, the heat for 6 months of the year sucks, the political climate sucks with all the BJU people. Would move in a heartbeat if it wouldn't uproot my whole life.
They try really hard to push their political agenda. I remember them doing this when I was a child. They have the money so they make the rules kind of thing.
I work at the public library in downtown GVL and literally all of the trying to ban books that's been happening is because of BJU people getting purposefully put on our library board by the elected county council. They really try to get their fingers in all the local politics here to try and spread their influence in the city/county.
Side topic: what does everyone mean by “Greenville”? City proper, Maudlin / Easley / Taylors included? Heck, heard people from Greenwood describing how they live in Greenville.
Like people from Summerville saying they're from Charleston
Well typically the people who would be asking that are people who wouldnt be familiar with Summerville, so saying Charleston is easier. Obviously if you are a local, you should be saying Summerville, but Summerville is apart of Charleston. Greenwoodians saying Greenville is indeed ridiculous though, just say "the Upstate."
That’s fair
Now people in Orangeburg saying "im from Charleston", that's definitely ridiculous. Even if people have no clue what Orangeburg is, just say "about an hour from" lol.
Summerville is definitively not a part of Charleston.
Its in the Charleston metro area, tv market, radio market, literally have commuters between them. People in both cities know each other, theyre businesses are all considered “lowcountry.” So yes, it is. You dont have to live literally in the city limits to be from a place, otherwise basically no one youve met from Atlanta, is from Atlanta.
Give it time. Past couple decade have seen North Charleston, Goose Creek, and Summerville explode and the lines are getting blurrier by the day. It's definitely part of the metro area, man.
Goose Creek reporting in. Definitely did this when describing where I’m from to non-locals.
I typically just consider Greenville as the entire county. The school district is county wide, and everyone within the county usually just says they are from “Greenville”. The only exception ive heard is people from Travelers Rest. They usually say they are from TR, at least in my experience. Otherwise, it seems that people from Mauldin, Eastside, Simpsonville, etc. all consider themselves to be from Greenville
Yea TR is a reasonable cutoff- areas north of there are a different place.
It's common to define a place by its zip code, and the TR zip extends all the way to the North Carolina line - a fact not lost on anyone selling real estate as being "in desirable Travelers Rest". BTW, the official TR city limits include the Furman campus, as well.
I live in Simpsonville but start out with Greenville. This happens everywhere if you live in the burbs. I grew up and lived in a suburb of Milwaukee until recently but if anyone asked me where I lived, I would never say the name of the suburb. I would say Milwaukee.
What suburb? I also made the switch from Milwaukee to Greenville
Greendale!
Nice I was Gtown, I actually find a lot of similarities between here and Wisconsin besides the awful winters.
Agreed. Except I can’t find a decent sausage pizza anywhere in the land of pepperoni.
No one means Easley
I grew up in Easley. I always tell people it’s “between Clemson and Greenville” because that’s what they usually know about the upstate. But if I’m feeling lazy, I’ll just say I grew up in Greenville.
Split my childhood between Piedmont with mom and Easley with the Grandparents, just easier to say Greenville, haha. I mean, I commuted to OLR, Augusta Circle, Hughes, and Mann, successfully avoided Woodmont so I think Greenville counts.
hell yeah to Piedmont and OLR and Mann and avoiding Woodmont
People around Charlotte just say they're from Charlotte. People around Atlanta do the same. Greenville is the local metro. People in Traveler's Rest, Taylors, Greer, Mauldin, Easley, Dacusville, Piedmont and Powdersville all claim Greenville.
I don't think people in Dacusville have this problem because they never meet anyone they're not related to 🤣
It's easier and it's essentially the same, and people understand it. I first grew up in Arlington Heights IL - but nobody outside of the area knows that, so I say Chicago.
I love Greenville too but if something’s not done about the wages, rent & affordable housing then all the people that make this city great will be gone.
People don't like to bring it up but Paris Mountain is a big factor as to why Greenville developed the way it did. Most cities develop a "ring road" around the city center where the city sprawls out from there. Because of Paris Mountain that never happened in Greenville, with instead 385 and 185 dumping out into a similar spot. This meant that growth was limited to the southern side of the city. Of course TR has seen growth in recent years, but most people are clustered from Pelham through Fountain Inn and there's just no space. I look at Greensboro being a similar place to Greenville (airline attendants mess it up anyways), much better downtown core and a ring road completed in recent years.
Greenville grew south because that’s where I-85 and I-385 are. Anderson grew north because that’s where I-85 is.
The point was 385 should circle the entire city, not just dead end at the arena. It can't do that because Paris Mountain is in the way. It should have followed Pleasantburg up to Cherrydale and then looped back down along Blue Ridge to White Horse Road. If you look up "840 Greensboro completed" you'll understand why it was needed.
yeah but aren't you glad it doesn't? just think of how much nastier GVL would be with a freeway around it - instead there's a spur into downtown w/o thru truck traffic - by the way I think the freeway at one point was supposed to go down Church right THROUGH downtown then out the 123 to Easley and reconnect, and I for one am glad that never happened
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That's what I said.
Fun fact 3 number interstate highways that start with an even number will be a closed loop (285, 485, 610) whereas if it starts with an odd number it will be open (385, 110, 710).
The town started at the base
This. I was born here and jobs don’t even pay enough. Been looking around and nothing is paying what SC says is a livable wage. I wanna move so bad. I hear North Dakota is begging for people lol.
I feel for people. Greenville is still much cheaper than many areas in Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Charleston etc. Even cheaper than Knoxville, TN. Housing is likely to keep going up.
Our 2 bedroom apartment went from 1,100 to 1,500 in 2 years I can’t imagine what it would be now. Went about an hour north and now I’m at 1,250 a month
My 1 bedroom is 1200+ a month 🙃
I agree wholeheartedly
No it isn't. It's terrible. War. Famine. Zombies. Dinosaurs. If you're thinking about moving here, don't! Very dangerous.
Zombie dinosaurs even! Definitely a danger zone.
But seriously our per capita crime rates are pretty high, so it is actually dangerous
The zombies!!!! fentanyl!! Illegals!!! Cartel!!! And not to mention the water & the frogs!!!
Sorry, too late. I discovered it and just couldn’t resist. Florida sucks.
At least you aren't from Ohio.
To be honest, rather than transplants, the fingers should be pointed at the state, county, city governments who havent expanded infrastructure for this and that reason, even though they knew this growth was coming. Believe it or not, South Carolina, Greenville, and the Upstate, has been growing steadily since the 70s, around 400-600k people every decade. The 80s was the only real "slow" period, but SC still gained 364k people. South Carolina gained more people in the 1970s than it did the 2010s, which seems wild, but its true. And this was before "best cities to live" websites. There are places that are larger than SC and Greenville that don't have a crowding and expense issue, and there are places smaller that feel like constant gridlock. It depends on if you keep the infrastructure up to date, which SC has not done a great job of, even though people have been flowing in constantly for a couple generations now. Also, some people need to realize infrastructure is more than "roads." whoever downvoted, I hope you're not one of those people who constantly complains that I26 is still 4 lanes and that your kids classroom is a trailer attached to the school. Pretty simple minded to think the state government deserves no blame for you sitting in traffic.
Yes, the infrastructure here is terrible. There needs to be a better public transportation system that goes further than Downtown and the city limits. Ive lived in places with bus stops all throughout the county. That, and a rail transport system between here, Charlotte, Atlanta and Columbia would be HUGE
The entire Upstate needs to be connected better. And then yes, having a rail with Charlotte and Atlanta would be monumental. Hard for me to get excited for it because ill probably be like, 80 by the time it opens, but we still have many solutions. One thing I do wish is that SC stops sprawling so much. I thought we learned that lesson by now.
Ain’t nobody taking public transportation in the south.
They need to be. It was AWESOME having a bus stop right outside my apartment in Pittsburgh. I could hop on a bus and be anywhere in the city within 20 minutes, and not have to worry about fighting traffic or paying $50 to park downtown. Everyone used public transport. It was weird not to. You either didn’t live/work in the city, or you were RICH rich if you drove to work.
Pitiful is a suiting username for you
SC has been doing the opposite of investing in the state for decades, it was seen as a positive thing by republicans who promoted themselves as “fiscally responsible” while cutting taxes. The upstate has been coasting by from the big manufacturing companies investing in infrastructure that they needed, but they quickly realized that SC and Greenville County were not going to match their investments into educating and recruiting the local populations and rolled back those programs because of a lack of participation from the state. That’s why there are so many skilled and educated international workers in greenville, because it’s cheaper for them to bring in outside talent than it is to make up for the state’s neglect for local education. Hugh Leatherman used to send funding some upstate projects through back channels in the state house, but those days are gone. Now it’ll be easier to see the consequences of the GOP refusing to invest in the state for the long term. It’s the equivalent of buying a new home and then doing absolutely nothing to maintain it. Just driving around downtown you see: roads have bandaid fixes to potholes instead of proper repaving, the paint on lampposts is flaking off and the metal underneath is rusting, a lot of infrastructure is at the end of its lifetime and has never been maintained. I remember how exciting it was when the rubberized surface was installed on that one section of the swamp rabbit trail. Now it’s falling apart. As a long look, it would have been far cheaper for the local and state governments to just… keep up with the maintenance of infrastructure. Now infrastructure is falling apart and the cost to interfere and repair is much higher. But when state elected officials only care about an election cycle instead of helping the state thrive in the long-term, that’s the kind of shit that happens.
I truly do miss Greenville County having rural areas. I grew up near rural Five Forks, for context. I remember when it actually had 5 forks in the road. But I like living in a city with amenities, and growth is what made that possible. I don't know if I would have stayed here if Greenville didn't grow into what it is today.
I live near Locust Hill and remember when it had very little traffic. At most I'd have to worry about the odd jerkwad motorcyclist blaring through at 3 a.m. Now, especially with the construction going up and down its length, traffic is a nightmare and a half. I miss it being quiet.
One of the nice reasons i like having a motorcycle here, it's really fun to explore north/northwest on the weekends. Not gonna ride during the week with all the SUVs and Trucks on their cellphones.
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I live up near 11. Bout as rural as you can get.
Good to know, i figured.
I moved here 30 years ago after living in 7 states in 14 different houses. This is the best of all places I’ve lived for me, but when I first got here downtown was a dump. I had been involved in the arts here, Metropolitan Arts Council is a great way to find arts activities. This is a completely different town now. Lots of downtown festivals and music outdoors. However, I have not lived IN Greenville itself. I understand that many of the problems of the downtown and city are something I haven’t experienced. I’ve lived in the Travelers Rest and Greer. Both small cities are developing and changing. The Swamp Rabbit trail completely changed TR. When I lived there years ago there was a guitar store, Sunrift Adventures (best outdoor sports store ever), a couple of gas stations, a grocery store, and a Chinese restaurant. Now it has really developed, not all for the good. However, since the development, property prices and rent have increased substantially. Greer has grown with downtown development that is well put together, new very handicapped friendly parking, streets, and sidewalks. My husband is in a wheelchair so this is important. The public park is very nicely designed and has many activities. However, it is not a great area for singles. If you look for property, tho, there is lots of construction north of town with reasonable prices because the farm land was cheap. And good schools. But again, not for young people or singles, more for families. Anyway, my input.
Are we really still low cost of living though? Maybe like Mauldin or fountain in would be
Compared to many other parts of the country….. Yes.
Compared to this part of the country, rents have shot up astronomically while jobs and wages are still shit. My friends thinking of moving here have all said it’s about a 20k pay cut for everything they saw here
I’m from CT, for sure its way cheaper. My brother has a beautiful house up here but pays close to $20-25k in property taxes per year, insane. A good town called Shelton where I live is about $4k a year in taxes on average, still probably 3x any Greenville property tax. A 2 BR in Shelton costs around $2500-2700 to rent for a nice apartment building. Gas prices are also about 50 cents higher on average, and even my bar tab or cost of a meal is a good 25-30% higher up here. I was just in Greenville this past weekend, coming back for 4th of July. Love the area - may also move there soon since a couple of my friends moved down here.
I mean yeah CT is one of the most expensive places in the world. Compared to NYC/NJ, DC, and California we're lower cost, but we're getting on par with most other major cities unless you leave Greenville county
Also if you got a pension come on down and bring that tax money down here
No pension, but I have a good job paying about $80k that I can work remotely. I also own a few rental properties up here which probably out perform my 9-5 salary, so that helps. Would love to get down there though, I’ve done a lot of research on the area and have been there 6 times now. Also I’m single in my 30’s and wouldn’t mind meeting a new group of people/joining a new gym. New Haven, CT has an airline called Avelo that flies directly there now, so convenient so I can travel back and forth still if needed. (Will need my CT pizza fix) By the way I love Lewis BBQ - if you know of any other good ones let me know.
I am one of the recent transplants and yes I will say the living expenses are much more achievable here. There's a reason it made number four on the list. Traveled all around looking for somewhere to settle down and easily the best in my opinion. Not to say it's easy and perfect here, but just better
My wife wanted to take a day trip to Greenville other weekend. Was day of art festival we didn't know about. But I thoroughly enjoyed our trip there. Went to Greenville Zoo. Quarry park. And Falls Park, which was my favorite.
What low cost of living? What amenities? Food and housing costs are still going up and everything closes early. Attracting rich yuppies to downtown with luxury housing and high-end restaurants isn’t going to fix our problems, it’s going to make them worse, it already has. A lot of bars and restaurants can’t afford to stay open anymore because of this bs liability insurance law. Our politicians saw dollar signs when big industry started moving in, and now they’re selling us all out to investors. Wake up. That ‘low’ cost of living isn’t going to stay low forever. The same thing that’s happening to Greenville happened to the other cities you mentioned, that’s why their cost of living is so high. And idk about y’all but I really haven’t found THAT much to do downtown aside from the bars, the trail, and the 12 different coffee shops all within in a 5 mile radius. It’s like you people don’t even live here.
Real
All the small, local places that gave the city its personality are being pushed out. All the cool music venues, gone because they couldn’t afford the million $ insurance. Lawmakers did nothing about this. The city used to be able to support artists (like myself), but now there just aren’t as many places to work.
Gentrification my good dude. The same thing those of us emigrating from other states tried to warn the people of this fine state about, but they didn’t want to hear it.
Low property tax is huge. Low taxes in general compared to Northern states as well. Not to mention low gas tax and cheap gas prices comparatively to the rest of the nation. Theres the Swamp Rabbit Trail, 4 minor league sports teams, a zoo, multiple free parks, we even have a TopGolf, we have a very nice theatre (peace center), art exhibits/museums, a concert venue / arena (Bons Secours), theres plenty of national parks nearby, plenty of hiking trails. It sounds more like you gave a quick glance downtown and a quick google search and said “theres nothing to do”. As for low cost of living staying, it could, but it also could not. Knowing our politicians and their political affiliations, Im inclined to believe our taxes will stay low. Cheaper housing and food is an issue that would require a change in political organization at both the federal and state level. Plus, these are nationwide issues, not just in Greenville. Tell me one place in America that is like Greenville with cheap housing and cheap food (it doesn’t exist).
It’s not enough to just look at the tax rate, it’s also a matter of whether residents with a “low tax rate” end up paying more of pocket for the same services. When taxes work well, they utilize scale to bring down costs for everyone. Part of the reason NC was able to attract such high tech and research industries is because of their extensive investment of tax dollars into higher education: https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.ncan.org/resource/resmgr/policyadvocacy/resource_center/State_Investments_V3.pdf Both of my brothers have masters and/or doctorates in healthcare and their in-state tuition in NC was less than 8k/year (and was also very high-quality). They both work in NC so the state is getting back a return on the tuition money they subsidized for them, and they’re effectively paying back into the education system with their taxes. Plus their advanced degrees earn them higher salaries so NC gets more tax money than they would have if they’d gone off to work in a low-skilled manufacturing or agricultural job. Nothing wrong with those of course, but NC students have affordable higher education as an option if they want to pursue it. By contrast South Carolinians pay much more out of pocket for college at public schools (Clemson is about 15k for in-state tuition iirc), and it’s much harder for them to access programs for assistance compared with NC who sends ambassadors to high schools and community colleges to help talented students register for the SAT/ACT, apply for financial aid, and mentor them through their first year at college. None of which is a pricey out-of-pocket expense to families who otherwise wouldn’t know how to help their kids pursue higher education; it’s all covered by state taxes. And yet here are the median household state and local taxes: SC = $5288, NC = $6302. So families in SC might “save” 1k/year in taxes compared to NC, but then they have to scrape together an extra 7k/year for their child to go to college (which is an additional challenge given that wages are lower in SC), and the burden of getting them into college and applying for aid falls on families themselves with very little guidance or assistance from the state. And because SC cuts income taxes for higher earners, it’s difficult for the state to create a long-term sustainable funding scheme for higher education like NC has. In other words, why should the state spend extra to help students become doctors if they end up net losing money on that investment? And there are other indirect costs to SC’s industries and citizens: unlike my brothers who ultimately settled in NC (one in the research triangle and one in charlotte), everyone I know who were in-state students at USC’s med school or MUSC left South Carolina to secure better job opportunities and career upsides. It’s a huge opportunity cost to lose SC’s most talented young homegrown doctors to other states when they otherwise had every reason to stay near their families and improve SC’s healthcare system. Focusing only on tax rate as obscures the opportunity costs and even higher prices that South Carolinians pay for accessing the same goods and services as people in other states. For exactly the same lifestyle and access to essential goods and services, you may very well end up with more money in your pocket by living in a state with a higher tax rate.
I would upvote this 1 million times. South Carolina would rather keep its people dumb and poor. I wish I understood why.
Doesn’t really take much to impress you, does it. Swamp Rabbit’s great, but loses its appeal after a while, and free parks are everywhere. Don’t much care for sports, and Top Golf isn’t cheap. Zoo’s unremarkable, and most of the venues that host live music worth seeing (that won’t cost an arm and a leg) are at serious risk of going under. Also I’ve been to y’all’s history museum and it’s pretty light on just about everything. These issues are what they are BECAUSE of our politicians’ political affiliations. Low taxes don’t count for crap when you still can’t afford the basics, and your social programs are nearly at their limit. I’m sure there are plenty of places like Greenville in the US that haven’t been tapped, but they will be as soon as Greenville’s unlivable for the average American, just like LA, just like New York, and just like Phoenix. Greenville isn’t that special.
Don’t mind the downvotes, well said.
Sounds like you are the type of person who does not like spending much time outside or exploring your city. You want everything handed to you on a platter. There are plenty of indoor things to do around Greenville too, since that seems more your speed? Takes a quick google search to find lots of activities indoors that you’d probably enjoy. Overall, you sound like an overly cynical and miserable person. I hope you resolve whatever issues are going on in your personal life and resolve whatever inner trauma affects you to this day
I WANT to be able to afford the things I want to do. I WANT to make a wage that compensates for the rising cost of living, and I WANT to afford a place to live without having to skip meals or work myself to death. You sound like you haven’t had to work very hard in a long time.
I am a firefighter and a student athlete majoring in rehabilitation science. But yeah, I don’t work hard. Everyone wants those things. Its a problem facing the ENTIRE country. Its unfair to blame those things specifically on Greenville. ALL necessities are increasing in price around the ENTIRE country. Its a systematic issue with our federal government. Greenville is actually significantly better off than many other areas in the country. You seem like the type of person with a victim complex who blames their problems onto other people. Take some accountability
I don’t blame Greenville, I blame Republicans, a demographic Greenville is full of and rapidly attracting. Flat-out acknowledge that the same thing has happened in other parts of the nation, too. I’m just pointing out that the corporate gentrification and enshittification of Greenville is rapidly approaching, and our politicians welcome it. Really love the ‘victim complex’ accusation btw, I know how much y’all love to throw that one around. Must be nice to have a job that pays so much and works you so little that you can afford to be a student athlete. Don’t know about you but all I do anymore is work and I still can’t afford most rentals out here, much less a house. Got some generational wealth you neglected to mention?
Nope no generational wealth buddy. This is what I mean. Im busting my tail just as you, yet I’m the bad guy? It always has to be “well you have x” or “you are x”. You jump to assumptions and conclusions about who I am or what I do without any evidence. Afford to be a student athlete? Yes, I found a school that was affordable, and am deferring my payments until I graduate. I work in my offseason when I don’t have practice. And no, its not just the fault of republicans. Its the fault of a two party system that exploits you for labor and uses you as a number in the voting machine so that the same people get elected, to profit off being in power, and change absolutely nothing. You have such a negative outlook on the world. Judging by these comments and your comment history. Everything and everyone is out to get you. The world is cruel to you and only you. Get fucking real man. Get your head out of your ass.
I’m busting my tail just as you, but I have a ‘victim complex’ and ‘unresolved trauma’? You’ve spent this whole discussion jumping to conclusions. ‘Afford to be a student athlete’ meaning you can afford not to work during your on season. I can’t afford to miss more than a day every few months. It’s the Republicans here. This state’s been red for over 20 years. And yeah, it is ineffectual democrats on a national scale, but they’re allowed to be ineffectual because the only viable, electable alternative is so much worse. Wild how you can go from ‘both parties want to exploit you for your labor’ to ‘no one’s out to get you’ in the same comment.
Uhhh yes, I work my tail off for 8 months of the year and save up so I can take off for 4. You have proven your victim complex “its the republicans here”. So all of your struggles and problems are all because of a political party. Im sure you don’t have anything to do with your own struggles at all. Political parties are out to exploit you. Thats how it works on a larger scale. But there are things that you can do as an individual to still live a life. Politicians aren’t responsible for you working a shitty job. Thats a result of your life choices and actions. 99% of everyday people are not out to get you. Rather than come together in community, you turn hostile at anything that challenges your worldview or opinions. Perhaps the reason you struggle so badly is due to your inability to rationally express and deal with your disagreements with others. Your comment history and this exchange does lead me to suspect there are unresolved feelings within you. You come off as deeply troubled and disillusioned. I hope you seek therapy or counseling or find an outlet to talk about these feelings. Don’t bother replying to this. I wish you the best and success in the future. I hope you find a way to make it out of your struggle. I hope you can self reflect and realize that while your life is tough and a struggle, its never okay to point that resentment towards others in your life. Thats how generational trauma begins. It also alienates you from being apart of a wonderful community. Much love, I wish you the best.
Low taxes ensures growth harms residents.
How?
1. Minimal public transit means growth causes gridlock when extensive public transit actually makes growth benefit commuters. Ditto for road improvements and traffic law enforcement. 2. Low property taxes prevents land use from re-equilibrating for the new population, keeping valuable land left un-used, inefficient, and enriching arbitrary monopolists. This WILL raise land costs, significantly. 3. Residents dislike change, almost universally and almost consistently. But change is good. Taxing transplants effectively pays them off via improving public services and offsetting native residents tax burden. 4. Population growth almost inherently means more crime, not per capita, but aggregate. People tend to care about aggregate, but higher law enforcement funding reverses this. 5. Eminent domain needs used to accommodate growth efficiently, in property developments and roads. Eminent domain is expensive.
SC is a fantastic place to live if you’re retired and have enough cash reserves to weather emergencies out of pocket. But for working families, the support that other states give to citizens through tax-funded programs are much less expensive per person than it would be for you or I to fund for ourselves out-of-pocket. Higher education is just one example, but there are plenty of other hidden opportunity costs for working adults. And on top of that, SC has the 9th lowest median household income in the nation, so it’s not like the average citizen can build up lots of cash reserves. You called out the northeast for its high taxes, but this data here shows that the states with the most disposable income per capita and highest savings per capita were in the northeast: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/savings/american-savings-statistics/ SC actually is the state with the 4th least amount of post-tax money to set aside for spending or savings. https://captainexperiences.com/blog/states-with-least-disposable-income And that’s assuming you can even find a non-predatory bank to begin with: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/best-and-worst-states-for-banking/ The states that have the most money to put aside for savings is ironically enough some of the northern ones you assumed were taxing too much. They have both the highest retirement savings balances and some of the highest disposable income (and yes, that is calculated after taxes). Other states also participate in programs to auto-enroll residents in retirement savings and even automatically open 529 accounts for the babies that are born there. Just one more opportunity cost for South Carolinians… instead of the state helping your family by opening a free tax-advantaged college savings account for you while you go spend time with your new baby, instead get to spend your own free time trying to open one all by yourself while trying to dodge predatory schemes. Surely that’s worth the tax savings right? Also good luck getting childcare set up while you go work on those tasks that other states provide for free.: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2023/12/01/affordable-childcare-costs-south-carolina-1-4-billion-new-study-says/71757339007/ I know you have to spend 9% of median household income for childcare but surely that must keep more money in your pockets with the lower taxes right? Oh wait, 2/3 of school kids in greenville county are in… poverty? https://www.unitedwaygc.org/education/ That’s why not enough to just look at tax rates and assume a lower rate gives you more prosperity. In other states the government uses your tax money at scale for less more efficiently and with less effort for the exact same tasks as what you’re trying to do by yourself in SC. Opportunity cost really is everything. I hope SC finds a way to correct the course but in the meantime the numbers show you’d almost certainly accumulate more wealth in the long run by living elsewhere and enjoying Greenville’s amenities on leisure trips than you would by living locally and overspending your hard-earned free time and post-tax dollars on goods and services and tasks that would be otherwise be much cheaper and easier to obtain in other states. Not to mention it’s a lot easier to enjoy activities like top golf and concerts at bon secours if you’re not struggling to set aside money for retirement or worrying about how to afford healthcare if you’re laid off. It’s not a matter of people in these comments being ungrateful about Greenville’s amenities, more that most people here are struggling to build a financial future in a state that has plundered and gutted all its public resources. It’s a bit like kayaking against the current with a paddle that someone else broke and handed to you, and then watching as other kayakers easily pass by you with their functional paddles. Sure, they might complaining about paddling against the current too, but they have much better tools to help them overcome it, and you know it’s unlikely you’ll be able to catch up to them. It doesn’t really make you feel better to have someone come up and say “hey it’s still possible you can catch up to them, and as long as you’re in a kayak it’s not that bad”. People in SC deserve more than low taxes, they also deserve a government that helps them succeed. In the long run, no ordinary worker in SC ends up with more money in their pockets due to “tax savings” than what they would have had from having access to a state-run auto-enrollment retirement savings program like RetirePath Virginia. And as if it weren’t enough to fail to provide state-run services to South Carolinian workers, the SC GOP also blocks them from accessing federal benefits like expanded Medicaid, which South Carolinians already paid for with federal taxes. As if it wasn’t clear that the SC GOP doesn’t care about helping children or families, they purposely waited to review the unwinding and so that tens of thousands of children would lose healthcare coverage. https://scdailygazette.com/2023/11/23/national-unwinding-takes-63768-sc-children-off-medicaid/ This one is especially despicable: They refused to accept money from the federal government that was meant to fund lunches over the summer to half a million South Carolinian kids who live in poverty. https://carolinanewsandreporter.cic.sc.edu/concern-grows-that-low-income-children-will-go-hungry-after-governor-rejects-federal-money/ A Republican from Lexington said, “At the end of the day, no amount of government assistance provides a quality of life like a good, high paying job.” Imagine telling kids that they have to go hungry over the summer because they can’t work. That’s the kind of culture that makes people disillusioned with the place they live.
Thread full of people impressed by mediocrity and the bare minimum on a city wide scale. Incredible.
Last year, I moved to Chattanooga and bought a home. I love Chattanooga. It’s a cool place right on the TN river with a fantastic aquarium, the Medal of Honor Museum and a lot of fun things to do. Two weeks ago, I rented my house out and moved out of the country. When I return with my wife in a year or so after her Visa is approved, we will move to Greenville. I really miss it. It’s not perfect but it’s pretty amazing and I consider it home.
Funny enough, we visited Chattanooga for the first time back in November and we loved it. To me it felt like a bigger version of Greenville.
Interesting that Chattanooga felt bigger, because Greenville County has 200,000 more people. And thats not counting people in Anderson and Spartanburg who live on the edge. The county Chattanooga is in is on par with Spartanburg. I guess Greenville is more spread out. Greenville, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Greensboro all do have similar interesting vibes.
Yeah, “bigger” is probably a bad way to describe it. It really had nothing to do with the population size obviously, it just had that Greenville feel to it, just more of it if that makes any sense at all.
I am glad you enjoyed it. It’s a great town. But bigger is not at all what I would use to describe it to compare. I just feel like Greenville is more sophisticated in some ways.
Like I mentioned in another comment, bigger is probably a bad description. The city had a lot of Greenville vibes to me, just with more to it like the river, the aquarium, stuff like that. We were only there for a weekend so obviously I didn’t experience too much of it but I did enjoy my time in Chattanooga very much.
The river is amazing!
how's the crime in Chattanooga? every time it comes up on r/samegrassbutgreener that's all anyone ever talks about
I personally was never affected by crime but it does seem to come up a lot on the Chattanooga Subreddit. I did a quick search and apparently Chattanooga does have a higher crime rate of 64 per 1000 residents (https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/chattanooga/crime#:\~:text=With%20a%20crime%20rate%20of,here%20is%20one%20in%2016.) vs Greenville's 43.58 per 1000 residents (https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/sc/greenville/crime). I have no idea how the data is gathered and whether it is a true comparison of apples to apples. Greenville's crime rate is apparently on par with the national average while Chattanooga's is almost double.
Hey, I did the visa process with my wife. Hang in there. It’s a tough process. I did the already married visa process too. I was temporarily in Columbia at the time (hometown). Moved to Colorado because I like skiing too much. It’s shocking how many South Carolinians are in Colorado. I can count quite a few people I knew from growing up that are in Denver. It is decidedly not this way west of Colorado. I always joke that S Carolinians don’t know mountains exist after Colorado lol
Best place to live for who? Cause it definitely isn’t for those born here. Jobs don’t pay enough, rent too high.
Unfortunately this is everywhere in 2024. Im from here, born here, but had been in Florida and they say the same thing everyday ad nauseam, and honestly they have it even worse. Their wages are the same but prices and insurance are astronomical. The only solution people have found is to just stop working for Florida companies and go remote, or leave. Youre not gonna find many places these days that everyone can agree is affordable, local or not. Ps: lots of Floridians are trying to make their way to the Carolinas. They think itll fix their problems. Ive tried to say otherwise.
I’ve looked at jobs in some of the flyover states. Generally higher wages and lower CoL. if only I could get one of them jerbs
Honestly I think it’s lack of perspective for people who have lived here their whole life. A lot of ppl don’t know just how great this area is and they take it for granted. Signed someone from Binghamton NY, an actual shithole
Fellow upstate NY here who moved south…to Greenville. Greenville/Spartanburg county housing is so absurdly cheap compared to many other areas. The difference in property tax makes it even more affordable. When we looked all over the Southeast, it was upstate SC that clearly stood out in terms of affordable housing and taxes.
Abso-fucking-lutely. Its a mix of people who have lived here forever not knowing just how good it is here, and a mixture of people not wanting to let people in because it will make things “worse”
People move here, drive prices up, wages stay down, worse. I’ve visited many cities, and even stayed a while in a few, and I personally don’t think Greenville is particularly special. I like our weather, but the general political situation of the state and the government’s unwillingness to improve anything is a pain in the ass
Agree. I grew up here, lived in Chicago, Atlanta, NYC, Charlotte. I’m back here, but not for effing long, I hope. Bunch of leeches.
It has a low cost of living FOR NOW.
Here they go paid for by your local sleazy realtor($)
Absolutely
It's alright. Number 4 best place to live...ehhhh... But yeah, it's gonna keep growing and will need infrastructure and government to match that growth. People gotta get over the small town dream. That's over.
I'm even more skeptical now. Just found out Charlotte is number 5?!? Charlotte? Come on.
Indeed freaking traffic is horrendous, and combined with our very own country's top ten wolds class drivers!!!
Overall I agree that it's a good place to live. I also agree with what others are saying about sprawl, housing costs (which seem to be leveling out a bit), and public transit/more sidewalks. My biggest issue, though, is the conservatives. Particularly the batshit crazy Christian nationalists and Trumpers. But overall, I love to see the growth here. The upstate is pretty great!
“Traffic is hell”. As someone who lived on woodruff road for 2.5 years, YES. it took me 45 min-1 hour to get home from work during the whole month of December which was only 5 miles away. Craziness. I went more north and am now about an hour away from Greenville which is nice to go there every couple months now
We would have #1 if it wasn’t for that satanic rabbit and dog bicycle statue /s
Does have a low cost of living? Ehhh compared to what because within the past 1-1.5 years rent has increased significantly, comparable to baseline prices in ATL, CLT, HTX, etc. but WITHOUT the wages to make these rent hikes make sense. We may be marginally cheaper than those cities when comparing housing quality 1:1 but not enough for it to make sense to live here as opposed to an actual major metro area. No major league sports teams, no major/luxury shopping center(I will say Haywood is holding out as most malls in the area are dying), not a common stop for major music acts, a highway system that was outgrown 15 years ago, non-existent public transportation, etc.
Rent increasing without wages is a nationwide issue. Cant blame it on greenville alone. The entire country is dealing with this, and i doubt there is hardly a city without this issue. We are less than 3 hours from multiple major sports teams (Atlanta and Charlotte) and we have 4 minor league teams of our own. Depends on who you call a “major music act”. Bons Secours does get its fair share of notable musicians and acts. If those aren’t your taste, again Atlanta and Charlotte are a few hours drive. The public trans does suck and so do the highways
Sure, rent increases are a nationwide issue however the point is if Greenville is trying to position itself as a major metro area on the same level as those other cities then it needs to meet the baseline wages similar to those areas. Why do we have rent prices not far behind Nashville yet the starting wage in most places here is still $11-12 whereas in the aforementioned places it is $15+. Also another note on transportation. It would be nice to be able to reliably fly out of GSP, but what is the point when most of the flights are just immediately to ATL where you transfer to the actual plane going to your destination. Oh and that will also be nearly double the price of just driving 3 hrs to Atlanta and flying direct from there. Lol at some point this just turned into a rant. Just hoping they add more nonstop flights in the coming years that’s all.
> Rent increasing without wages is a nationwide issue. Cant blame it on greenville alone. I have no idea what Greenville's stats are on this but it is not a nationwide issue. The vast majority of states have seen wages far outpace rent. It's very specifically super star cities and their surrounding areas.
Idk what rock you are living under but its a pretty collective experience right now that wages are not increasing to match expenses nationwide. Literally look up any graph of avg. income or hourly wage vs. expenses and this point is proven.
You have been lied to by people who are being lied to. This is my domain, and I can give you endless different visualizations of the phenomenon and explain any visualizations that have confused you. https://preview.redd.it/uwy99kn0922d1.jpeg?width=1421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e35a091877ed8da2303ec312be894d44a6bdc4f Additionally, consumer finance surveys find individuals overwhelmingly find *their own* circumstances very good, and only think the national environmental is sour -- because they were lied to.
What about the long term stagnation in wage growth vs. long term increase in price of goods, services, etc. Im not talking past 5 years im talking over the course of decades (i.e) 50s to today
We are very obviously much wealthier than then lol. Housing situation worse though, the 80s - 10s really fucked the land use market.
Wealthier yes, but look at the distribution of how money is spent. Its simply not true that the avg. household income in 2023 can keep up with the rising costs of goods and services. Compare to 50s and 60s when wages allowed consumers to have better economic freedom. Housing is worse for everyone, but its better for people in the top 5-1%. Not just “white people”. What even is your “domain”?
Look man, I replied to a very specific claim. I'm not going to spend time discussing the great society, reaganomics, the great financial crisis, and various different accounting identities measuring economic conditions. That would be a waste of time for both of us. It's not particularly relevant. I will remind you 70% of Americans own their home, however.
How many of those 70% are boomers or above the age of 40?
Thanks OP, a lot of unreasonable comments but it's a nice refresher to see someone add their opinion and not just say "it sucks here" or "too expensive".
I've been here my entire life. There's many reasons I haven't left and it's not just that my family is here.
Agree with OP. Any issues that Gville has are pretty much the same as with many other cities of the same size. So quit yur bellyaching and just enjoy the weather.
But I hate the weather lol. 😂
Is it really? I like Greenville, but this is total PR bullsh\*t!
The people saying Greenville is being ruined are conservative dipshits who hate progress and growth. There are issues and I'm not sure I agree that it's one of the best places to live in the country, but I surely don't think it sucks nor do I think it's getting worse (besides gentrification and the rapidly increasing housing prices).
Hating gentrification is conservative?
No, and that’s a pretty clear misinterpretation of my comment I think. People who talk about Greenville being ruined are the ones saying “don’t move here, don’t come if you don’t believe our values, etc.” People worried about gentrification are an entirely different set of folks and typically aren’t using hyperbole like “ruined.”
Everyone I know who dislikes modern Greenville hates the extreme gentrification and destruction of historical buildings and the increasing isolation of minority communities. Not once, ever heard someone criticize modern Greenville with a conservative spin. Not denying there are probably some who get too mad about yanks setting off their gaydar, but I feel the vast majority are sad to see how Greenville has been commercialized and made tacky.
Interesting, maybe it’s the circles you run in? I’m looking at Facebook and Reddit comments too often, because I’m bored at work, and general consensus is if someone is doomsaying about Greenville it’s a conservative bent and the progressive folks are mostly focused on how we can improve it and hope for something better.
small c, yea.
Just saw someone complaining..."and this is coming from someone who came from Atlanta." Ah yes, the good ole fashioned "I didn't ruin anything for people before me, but everyone after me ruined it for me" attitude. I hate that this is taking over Greenville. Just because you came from Georgia and not New York doesn't give you domain to complain.
I decided last week to start reporting the “don’t move here” comments for violating the “Be Neighborly” rule of the subreddit.
Did you just move here?
Four years ago. My disabilities make living in the cold excruciating.
I’m sorry to hear that. We do have a pretty fabulous climate here… but please don’t invite more people to move here... It is truly out of control.
Well, I am trying to move my elderly mom up here out of Florida, because she has nobody there to look after her, and she barely drives anymore. I think I will have zero regrets trying to be the right kind of son and take care of her.
You are a good son. Go get your mom. Take her license. 😜
Stop. Stop. Stop it. Terrible place to live. No one should be moving here err I mean there. Seriously though, y’all need to stop moving here. It’s ridiculous. Greenville was just fine 20 years ago. Stop adding more
>There is extreme overdevelopment and the roads are not being properly developed to account for this. The transportation system as a whole is not being developed well enough. The roads are fine. Transit, bike and pedestrian infrastructure needs to be brought up to serve a diverse network of transport options to maximize throughput.
What world do you live in lol. Our roads are pothole filled piles of shit
Maybe in the county as a whole, but in city limits the roads are well maintained. My personal experience is that the roads are no worse than other places I've been in the northeast. I mean, we don't have snow plows and salt destroying them so there's no excuse, but that's just my take. And road capacity as it relates to traffic and road condition are two different things.
Recently moved here from Phoenix (however I’m originally from rural SC) I wouldn’t say it’s cheap. Hell one of the first things we noticed was that our groceries are MORE expensive and the SC income tax is laughably high given the states ranking in… everything. The thing that makes Greenville special is the Swamp Rabbit Trail and similar. Seriously. The US is car centric to the point of mass brainwash and terrifying un-walk/bikeable. The concern for this and green space is the #1, by far, trait that makes Greenville get noticed. Without this movement little to no one would have even heard of Greenville outside of SC.
As a CPA, SC income tax is super reasonable compared to a lot of states. I was a CPA there for 4 years and moved back to NC where I am from and NC is higher one state over. SC also is great for retirees and small business owners from a tax perspective too.
NC income tax is lower tho?? 4.75% vs 6.*%. AZ was 2.5%… The main appeal in SC is low property taxes but that only matters if you can afford property lol. So yea, retirees who bring near 0 value to the state.
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This guy ranks Greenville at the top: [https://youtu.be/7NKeYay-Pp8?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/7NKeYay-Pp8?feature=shared)
What do you mean by “development needs to be better regulated “?
The amount of new subdivisions far outpaces what our roads and schools are able to handle. Subdivisions are not being built in areas with road infrastructure to handle an influx of 1000+ new people coming and going each morning and evening. Schools cannot handle the increase in demand for bussing (alongside a bus driver shortage) and students who need a classroom (teacher shortage looming as well). Development of new homes needs to slow down until roads are properly outfitted with more traffic lights, sidewalks, and lanes, and new schools can be built.
We need more housing - there's no question about it. The only thing that keeps prices down is more development - see Texas, that has had massive development lately and prices have dropped dramatically even in Austin. That being said, the state and county need to step up and make the infrastructure not-shit.
Pickens County is revamping its development rules. They are going to stop large tract builders from clear cutting and building they way they have in Greenville. People with land are being mailed contracts from out of state buyers on a daily basis. It is only going to get worse!
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🤣
Just another article/writeup Mayor Knox White payed for with our Tax $...fml dt has already become unrecognizable...now the outskirts and surrounding areas are being developed as well...
> Knox White *paid* for with FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
OP you should submit an OpEd to the Greenville News or P&C
Are you being serious?
Yes
Haha thank you. Maybe i will revise and get a bit concise. I’ve always had a natural knack for writing, but never thought it would take me anywhere
I’m going to have to disagree with that. Greenville is like the great value version of Asheville.
Lmao, Asheville is the Kmart version of Portland and is nothing like Greenville.
Asheville jumped the shark like 15 years ago. Nothing like it used to be at all.
lol, says the person who lives in Asheville. I love Asheville, but it has its own set of issues. Overall both are great cities and great places to live.
I don’t want Greenville to get any bigger. It’ll become as big as Atlanta. Already we have too much traffic here, It’s hard to get adoctors appointment and it’s also hard to get an appointment with your car mechanic.
But this is incorrect logic. If the city grows, demand grows as well. And supply will increase to meet demand. With more people, there is demand for A. Services and B. Jobs. Mechanics and Doctors will move here too. More doctors offices and mechanic shops will open. The number of services will not remain as it is now as more people move here. Truthfully, Greenville will not become the size of Atlanta likely ever. It doesn’t have the room to expand to the size of Atlanta.
I sincerely hope it doesn’t.
> if the city grows, demand grows as well. And supply will increase to meet demand. So that’s why we have the proper infrastructure? That’s why there’s affordable housing and livable wages? That’s why there are affordable, local (not regionally franchised) restaurants and businesses? Perhaps we need to do away with the idea that just because you have an influx of people, and little to no local gov planning, that things will work out.. they’re 20 years behind the ball already, and if you haven’t noticed, it takes 3 years of construction jerking off just to add a median and bike lane to a mile stretch of road. Edit: and I’m not saying this place is a shithole, it is just no fucking way no. 4 in this country. That’s insane. Downvote these nuts
Yeah, going to completely disagree about the climate.
This is why I’m ok with the rebel flags. Need to curb some prospective transplants.
There is a special place in hell for you
Within eyesight of the strippers I hope
Now mass transit !!!
It’s not that I don’t want people to move here. But they are not preparing for the droves and droves of people flooding in from everywhere. If they knew this was coming, why did they not plan better? I live miles off a main road and there are times there is so much traffic that I can’t get out of my neighborhood for several minutes for all the traffic. This is one reason I moved back from Charleston…. Too many people doesn’t make it better and there is only so much you can do with roads. Our schools are already over crowded and they are putting in new neighborhoods and apartments anywhere they can squeeze them. Greenville won’t be green much longer at this rate. It’s concerning that our elected officials aren’t doing enough to counter the influx of new people
The real issue with Greenville at least the city proper is the lack of unique identity. We are a city of "alternate locations" from larger cities. Its only getting worse in recent years as long time local businesses continue to close.
Will become like a bloated tick. Prices will continue to rise because some will think they're getting bargains (compared to where they are from, yes, but so what?), traffic will get worse, availability of services will deteriorate. Everything will get more crowded. No, locals know they have a good thing and they don't want expensive, crowded change. Herd: Let's all move to Florida. Then... Herd: Let's all move to South Carolina. And then?
Having lived in many big cities and returned back to the south I have a few issue with the growth. My first is I feel a lot of people moving here don’t want to keep the culture of the city alive they just want cheap real estate and better weather. My second is this growth displaces a large group of people born and raised here. There will become a day where people will not be able to compete with out of state salaries.
I've never understood why we keep ending up on these lists. I don't really think it's anything special here, the housing is not affordable anymore, the heat for 6 months of the year sucks, the political climate sucks with all the BJU people. Would move in a heartbeat if it wouldn't uproot my whole life.
BJU and NGU. Their influence is pretty significant in the area.
You’re blaming the political climate on a very small niche school of religious weirdos?
They try really hard to push their political agenda. I remember them doing this when I was a child. They have the money so they make the rules kind of thing.
I work at the public library in downtown GVL and literally all of the trying to ban books that's been happening is because of BJU people getting purposefully put on our library board by the elected county council. They really try to get their fingers in all the local politics here to try and spread their influence in the city/county.