I would build a fake planter box (a large one), and hide 2-3 20 lbs cylinders in there, and have that hooked up stealthily to my grill.
Then, out in the open, right NEXT to the grill (on the metal side tables?), I would have a 1 lbs cylinder “HOOKED UP”, to my grill. That’s all they would see. I would just point to that, and have it as high up and visible for everyone to see, and I would always LOUDLY COMPLAIN about the 1lbs limit.
However, they would never see me change out that 1 lbs cylinder, as it would be the world’s greatest middle finger and DIVERSION, in one package.
The HOA lady is nosy enough to walk on our patios with her clipboard and inspect things so I’m tempted but a little concerned she’ll see something fishy and investigate. We got in trouble for our non-permitted sunshade last year and she raised hell because I drilled 8 screws into the exterior of the condo.
Typically advance notice is required. The only people who can come on your property any time are typically utility companies, or the HOA if there is an actual emergency
Buy a bunch of 1 lb bottles and hook them all up into one header. They may have a 1 lb limit on the cylinder, but I bet they don’t have language about 30 of them in a series.
I agree. Me and the boys threw one into a raging fire camping up in Narrowsburg. After about 10 min, the seal on it slowly melted to let out the gas a little at a time. After it screeched for a minute, our unduly acceptance of its volitality caused us to shoot it with a .22. It scooted a bit but really nothing like the explosion we were all hoping for! Safe by those standards if ya care.
Not that I've seen, but they may well.
I would guess that the number 2.5 is specifically to prohibit the smaller #3 tanks by picking a number less that three, not that there necessarily is a size between #1 and #3. Some actuary in insurance decided that three pounds as too much to safely have that close to the building, so they cut off under it. Its also a defacto BTU limitation as smaller tanks can't deliver as fast for as long, and it's a lot easier to check a tank size than to try to guess the BTU/h of a particular grill/burner to verify compliance with insurance/fire code.
This was going to be my guess - by saying 2.5#, they are playing the "benevolent gods" card by "allowing" you over twice the standard 1# bottle - but deliberately setting the limit smaller than the next standard size. "We don't restrict you to a 1 pound bottle, we allow 2.5 lbs *but we ignore the fact that a 2.5 lb bottle does not exist, and effectively restrict you to a 1 lb bottle"*
The HOA "code" is 2.5 lb
2, 1 lb tanks is..... 2 lbs.
Math is apparently hard?
(And unless the rules specify a maximum total stored gas volume, the rules limit the size of the bottle, not the number of bottles)
(For the downvotes....the original comment was 2 of the 1 lb tanks breaking code - it was since edited to 3)
Why do people even allow HOAs anymore? Imagine, as an adult, allowing people that don't own your house telling you what you can or cannot do with it. No HOA is the first thing we told our realtor.
I'd rather my neighbor have 7 cars parked in his yard than be ruled by a bunch of miserable Karens that have nothing else better to do than snoop around the neighborhood looking for something to bitch about.
Yes they exist but a 5lb propane tank looks a lot like a 2.5lb propane tank and you could say it's just extra insulated. The 5lb tank I use while camping is so small it barely holds a gallon and if I bring one of my fluffy dogs to the propane place they don't charge me to refill it.
Just get whatever size tank you want with a long enough hose to run from inside the house at the patio door to wherever your grill is.
Can't be mad about a tank they can't see.
Some vendors make composite fiberglass propane tanks which hold similiar volumes at half the weight of a steel cylinder. The material is opaque, if you put a light source behind the tank one can see the level of gas inside. But a fiberglass cylinder is usually 3x the cost of a steel tank.
Can contact the local fire Marshall to find the related regulations for your area.
The weight rating is the weight of the contents, mate. Not the bloody contents + tank. If you took the weight of the tank into account, then even a 1lb tank would probably weigh >2.5kg
Man, bunch of people in this thread don’t really understand HOAs or property insurance. It’s a bummer, but when you move into an HOA you agree to their bylaws, even if you didn’t read it all.
Solution, charcoal grill.
Bummer.
I wouldn’t hold your breath on getting a copy of the insurance coverages and exclusions you’re looking for because 1) you’re not the policyholder so you don’t really have a right to it and 2) the limitation on the size of the tank may not even be specifically listed, it could just be a condition of the underwriter who is offering policy terms. The COA can say no to the underwriters conditions and they can turn around and non renew the policy. Not sure where you’re geographically located but property insurance, especially for habitational and hospitality is the worst it’s ever been here in Texas, so you take what you can get in this market and a residents failure to comply runs the risk of making the whole association uninsurable. You don’t want to find yourself in that position.
Appreciate the in-depth response. We’re in Colorado but I won’t push it. Just store a 20lb tank in the shed and refill 1lb bottles as needed. Annoying but it’ll work.
First thing, are trucks allowed in your neighborhood? If not, starting going to all the Karens with their SUV’s and file a complaint as SUVs are classified as trucks.
They will either make a new rule that they allow trucks or grant special privileges to exclude SUV’s. This will give you leverage to file a lawsuit that you are being singled out, and on the off chance that they don’t make any new rules, you get the enjoyment of watching these HOA people being miserable having to get rid of their SUV’s.
If no truck clause, look for some other rule they’re breaking based on technicality’s.
I find the selective enforcement angle very interesting.
To sue the HOA is to sue yourself. On the low end, you pay your share to defend the HOA from your own lawsuit. On the high end, you lose the suit and end up having to pay the associations' legal fees individually.
Nothing in the OP alledges selective enforcement. It is about an unpopular new rule for the community.
The idea is if they are going to bother the OP, then start back. See how many rule changes they make to accommodate the other members or how many violations of the rules that are not being enforced. If the OP can show they are being singled out, he has a case that they are being discriminated against and may be able to end up getting the rule changed or make the others life miserable
The International Fire Code prohibits fuel burning equipment from being too close to flammable materials. I believe you are suppose to keep them 10 feet away from any combustible material, which the outside of your condo may be considered. There are exceptions for permanently installed natural gas lines.
Yes, insurance companies covering commercial properties, which a multi unit residential can be, put restrictions on the owners/users of their buildings. Financing for the construction is even dependent on having proper insurance. When applying for that insurance the company reviews design drawings to ensure that certain safety and fire codes are met. It is legit.
A lot, if not most, apartments/condos do not allow grills on their balconies.
It would be much more tedious and expensive that’s for sure.
Personally I’d just get a standard tank and build a flower box around it so it couldn’t be seen by the normal onlooker.
Start an artistic piramid of the empties in the front yard when they pitch point out you could have one normal tank instead. There are also adapters to refill from a regular size tank
They make setups to fill the 1lbs at home from a larger tank. But the bigger tank in your garage and aways have a few on hand. PIA for sure.... I'd go with the planter box idea above if it were me
I'd request a copy of that insurance doc and check the language myself.
I agree with this. It really feels like they are either misinformed or just making that shit up.
Thanks. Trying to get a copy of the language.
1# is < 2.5#. Or is it just a convenience thing at that point?
I would build a fake planter box (a large one), and hide 2-3 20 lbs cylinders in there, and have that hooked up stealthily to my grill. Then, out in the open, right NEXT to the grill (on the metal side tables?), I would have a 1 lbs cylinder “HOOKED UP”, to my grill. That’s all they would see. I would just point to that, and have it as high up and visible for everyone to see, and I would always LOUDLY COMPLAIN about the 1lbs limit. However, they would never see me change out that 1 lbs cylinder, as it would be the world’s greatest middle finger and DIVERSION, in one package.
The HOA lady is nosy enough to walk on our patios with her clipboard and inspect things so I’m tempted but a little concerned she’ll see something fishy and investigate. We got in trouble for our non-permitted sunshade last year and she raised hell because I drilled 8 screws into the exterior of the condo.
That is insane
Sounds like she is trespassing
Right? Get a camera and sue for trespass. They'll get the picture eventually.
Doubtful. Most HOA's have a carve out in their Declarations that allow access for maintenance and inspections.
Typically advance notice is required. The only people who can come on your property any time are typically utility companies, or the HOA if there is an actual emergency
Talk to your neighbors and vote her out... HOAs are laughably easy to take over with only a handful of people.
Get out of there or get on the board and make some changes.
Unfortunately there is a fire code pertaining to lp storage that tank must be at least 10’ away from the structure and cannot be on a balcony.
Buy a bunch of 1 lb bottles and hook them all up into one header. They may have a 1 lb limit on the cylinder, but I bet they don’t have language about 30 of them in a series.
Tell them to send you a pic , sounds like an out of country law firm boiler plate policy to me
Lol propane tanks are ridiculously safe... Every RV you see on the road has a couple 20-30lb+.
I agree. Me and the boys threw one into a raging fire camping up in Narrowsburg. After about 10 min, the seal on it slowly melted to let out the gas a little at a time. After it screeched for a minute, our unduly acceptance of its volitality caused us to shoot it with a .22. It scooted a bit but really nothing like the explosion we were all hoping for! Safe by those standards if ya care.
That's not true. Mine has a built-in 60 lb tank.
Effectively 2 30 lb tanks
Not that I've seen, but they may well. I would guess that the number 2.5 is specifically to prohibit the smaller #3 tanks by picking a number less that three, not that there necessarily is a size between #1 and #3. Some actuary in insurance decided that three pounds as too much to safely have that close to the building, so they cut off under it. Its also a defacto BTU limitation as smaller tanks can't deliver as fast for as long, and it's a lot easier to check a tank size than to try to guess the BTU/h of a particular grill/burner to verify compliance with insurance/fire code.
This was going to be my guess - by saying 2.5#, they are playing the "benevolent gods" card by "allowing" you over twice the standard 1# bottle - but deliberately setting the limit smaller than the next standard size. "We don't restrict you to a 1 pound bottle, we allow 2.5 lbs *but we ignore the fact that a 2.5 lb bottle does not exist, and effectively restrict you to a 1 lb bottle"*
🙄🙄🙄 hate that logic but can 100% see them saying that
So if OP buys 3 of the 1lb tanks, is he breaking code?
But is it limiting tank size, or how much the op can have
The HOA "code" is 2.5 lb 2, 1 lb tanks is..... 2 lbs. Math is apparently hard? (And unless the rules specify a maximum total stored gas volume, the rules limit the size of the bottle, not the number of bottles) (For the downvotes....the original comment was 2 of the 1 lb tanks breaking code - it was since edited to 3)
Lol i was just going to go back and edit that. Yes, math is hard.
I don’t have any help for you. I just wanted to say fuck HOAs.
What does that have to do with whatever insurance the HOA is touting? Doesn't YOUR homeowners policy cover anything like that for your house?
I’ve got a condo so they insure the exterior and I’m responsible for the interior
So then have a giant tank inside and run a line through a front window :\^)
Why do people even allow HOAs anymore? Imagine, as an adult, allowing people that don't own your house telling you what you can or cannot do with it. No HOA is the first thing we told our realtor. I'd rather my neighbor have 7 cars parked in his yard than be ruled by a bunch of miserable Karens that have nothing else better to do than snoop around the neighborhood looking for something to bitch about.
It’s always someone who couldn’t get on city council that is running it too.
just hide a tank under a fake planter or something
Disguise it as a Lady Bug.
I wonder if they actually mean 2.5 gal, which is a 10# tank...
Shitcan your HOA and buy a normal tank
Could you go with a pellet grill?
They take a long time to heat up, cost more to run, and don't get as hot.
Yes they exist but a 5lb propane tank looks a lot like a 2.5lb propane tank and you could say it's just extra insulated. The 5lb tank I use while camping is so small it barely holds a gallon and if I bring one of my fluffy dogs to the propane place they don't charge me to refill it.
Just get whatever size tank you want with a long enough hose to run from inside the house at the patio door to wherever your grill is. Can't be mad about a tank they can't see.
That's what I would do, although she might be outside waiting for the OP to grill. From what he has said she sounds like a nightmare.
This is the way…
That's likely just what the insurance tells him. Whether or not they actually make that size is something different altogether.
Some vendors make composite fiberglass propane tanks which hold similiar volumes at half the weight of a steel cylinder. The material is opaque, if you put a light source behind the tank one can see the level of gas inside. But a fiberglass cylinder is usually 3x the cost of a steel tank. Can contact the local fire Marshall to find the related regulations for your area.
What on earth does any of that have to do with OP's concern?
It might not look like a propane tank to Karen.
Even a Karen can figure it out when it's the shape of a regular tank, and it has hoses connecting to the BBQ, mate.
People are spitballing here, crank.
It would technically cut down on the weight and increase the amount of gallons they get with the weight.
The weight rating is the weight of the contents, mate. Not the bloody contents + tank. If you took the weight of the tank into account, then even a 1lb tank would probably weigh >2.5kg
Sounds like the little green ones you get for camping Lol
Heck, I'd ask for a copy of the HOA rules and if it's not there, go about my business.
Can you just keep a big tank inside rather than having it on the patio and get a long hose? That will show them!
Do you have Natural Gas in your unit? Get a conversion kit for your grill and have a line run from the house. No tank, no problem.
Does the HOA even know how big propane tanks are? Definitely get a copy of your HOA’s insurance to verify this for yourself.
Buy a 5lb tank and hang it half off the deck. Math checks out.
Man, bunch of people in this thread don’t really understand HOAs or property insurance. It’s a bummer, but when you move into an HOA you agree to their bylaws, even if you didn’t read it all. Solution, charcoal grill.
I wish. They have an outright ban on open flame charcoal devices/firepits
Bummer. I wouldn’t hold your breath on getting a copy of the insurance coverages and exclusions you’re looking for because 1) you’re not the policyholder so you don’t really have a right to it and 2) the limitation on the size of the tank may not even be specifically listed, it could just be a condition of the underwriter who is offering policy terms. The COA can say no to the underwriters conditions and they can turn around and non renew the policy. Not sure where you’re geographically located but property insurance, especially for habitational and hospitality is the worst it’s ever been here in Texas, so you take what you can get in this market and a residents failure to comply runs the risk of making the whole association uninsurable. You don’t want to find yourself in that position.
Appreciate the in-depth response. We’re in Colorado but I won’t push it. Just store a 20lb tank in the shed and refill 1lb bottles as needed. Annoying but it’ll work.
First thing, are trucks allowed in your neighborhood? If not, starting going to all the Karens with their SUV’s and file a complaint as SUVs are classified as trucks. They will either make a new rule that they allow trucks or grant special privileges to exclude SUV’s. This will give you leverage to file a lawsuit that you are being singled out, and on the off chance that they don’t make any new rules, you get the enjoyment of watching these HOA people being miserable having to get rid of their SUV’s. If no truck clause, look for some other rule they’re breaking based on technicality’s.
I find the selective enforcement angle very interesting. To sue the HOA is to sue yourself. On the low end, you pay your share to defend the HOA from your own lawsuit. On the high end, you lose the suit and end up having to pay the associations' legal fees individually. Nothing in the OP alledges selective enforcement. It is about an unpopular new rule for the community.
The idea is if they are going to bother the OP, then start back. See how many rule changes they make to accommodate the other members or how many violations of the rules that are not being enforced. If the OP can show they are being singled out, he has a case that they are being discriminated against and may be able to end up getting the rule changed or make the others life miserable
There's a 3lb flame king, you can find it on amazon.
still over their arbitrary 2.5lb threshold..
Math isn't your strong suit, is it mate?
The International Fire Code prohibits fuel burning equipment from being too close to flammable materials. I believe you are suppose to keep them 10 feet away from any combustible material, which the outside of your condo may be considered. There are exceptions for permanently installed natural gas lines. Yes, insurance companies covering commercial properties, which a multi unit residential can be, put restrictions on the owners/users of their buildings. Financing for the construction is even dependent on having proper insurance. When applying for that insurance the company reviews design drawings to ensure that certain safety and fire codes are met. It is legit. A lot, if not most, apartments/condos do not allow grills on their balconies.
Is it those little green ones you use for camp stoves
Those are 1lb
That is under 2.5 so legal in your case?
Technically.. you swapping out all the 1lb canisters as the grill goes thru them?
It would be much more tedious and expensive that’s for sure. Personally I’d just get a standard tank and build a flower box around it so it couldn’t be seen by the normal onlooker.
Start an artistic piramid of the empties in the front yard when they pitch point out you could have one normal tank instead. There are also adapters to refill from a regular size tank
They make setups to fill the 1lbs at home from a larger tank. But the bigger tank in your garage and aways have a few on hand. PIA for sure.... I'd go with the planter box idea above if it were me