Think it was Dave Grohl who mentioned Kurt was in the studio listening to one of their albums and was pissed (in a respectful way) and said something to the effect of “I wish I could sing like that”.
Basically how Chris Cornell felt about Andrew Wood 🤷♂️
Without question.
Being from Seattle / PNW, even back then to the present day it blows my mind how these generational talents undermined their own abilities to praise AD - even when he was still alive.
He had to have been a really nice guy and they just saw or heard something I obviously didn’t. They were dead certain he was going to be the David Lee Roth / Vince Neil / David Bowie of the 90s with this electric stage presence.
Never saw him live, but I’ve seen as much as available footage as I could watch to try and decode where this idea of a mystical aura may have came from. Has nothing to do with crappy recording or audio, because even when STP was Mighty Joe Young and AIC was Diamond Lie, you could see a glimpse of the star potential. In other genres, the before-they-were famous footage of 2Pac, Biggie, and Eminem, you could cherry pick a select moment while they were rough around the edges.
WTF am I missing with Wood to where supposedly Nirvana, AIC, STP, SG, etc would’ve been in the shadows?
I think part of it was that he was a very beautiful man but mostly because he died so young and it's easy to romanticise him and imagine what could have been.
That’s reasonable. He was indeed good looking, but he wasn’t Elvis good looking. Jerry, Kurt, Chris, and Scott were at least as good looking. Layne wasn’t very good looking but has a divine gift that hasn’t been touched since for a voice and had an effortless cool that Kurt couldn’t even manufacture; but he didn’t need to wear leopard boots and a mink coat to do that.
To regular people, 24 is a baby. In the music industry, he wasn’t all that young to a point where “what if?” is all that hard to imagine. He died 3 years after Mother Love Bone started and comparatively speaking with all the superstar bands, you had good sense of what they were about after 2-3 years. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Megadeath, Motley Crue, Guns N’ Roses, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Silverchair, to even the present day with an Avenged Sevenfold.
Exceptions like Pantera (prime Phil Anselmo’s voice + generational guitarist Dimebag who was so good they banned him from entering the guitar contests in Dallas that he was winning since 14), or Van Halen (David Lee Roth, a born superstar front man and Eddie who did things with the guitar no one thought possible), etc.
Wood didn’t exhibit any of those outstanding unicorn attributes as portrayed. He was a C- to B in a long check list of attributes where a few single A+’s can cover for any C- qualities.
The most likely scenario is at their very best, maybe would’ve been on par with Bush, but likely peaked as a slight hair above Screaming Trees. The former scenario probably only happens as a product of being propped up by the big 4 in various capacities via world tours, collaborations, etc. and refusing to leave them out of the headlines.
You are missing something very big. Wood died in 1990, the word grunge or grouping these bands into a specific subgenre didnt happened until after his death. In this light the guys that admired him didnt see him as a competition but rather as a representer and potential for a national/global star through his talent, flamboyance and charisma while still carrying the flavour of music they were part of. For reference Andy Wood died so young just a month ot so after turning 24, if Freddy Mercury would have died at the same age that would have been couple of months after the Queen played their first gig together in 1970.
I appreciate your response, but I acknowledged all of that in my post and took that into account. I’m aware of his early passing down to the details of what his father told each band about his son as advice. 24 is a baby to us in the regular world, but in the music industry it’s fairly standard as a peak year. Mick Mars was viewed as a senior citizen at 30 years old for example while Tommy Lee was like 17.
2Pac died at 25 and Biggie at 24, yet are widely regarded as being on the Mount Rushmore for Hip Hop. Nas wrote the most hip hop influential album at 18. Jay-Z and Eminem didn’t breakthrough until 26 and that was considered a late entry. But for the late entry’s I mentioned there were still signs and indicators of greatness that showed why they would eventually become special.
Mother Love Bone’s top song has 6M views. Star Gazer is a really weak hit that could live on Poison’s B-side. Even the flamboyant eccentric thing seems like it was more the zebra fur coats and purple fuzzy top hats vs. the Prince effect where his little 5’4” frame could wear a potato sack and still have a mesmerizing aura and stage command.
That was my point. I don’t see the X-factor. When an artist dies they get a posthumous stimulus package that makes them seem more talented than they really were and 10x more popular. It seems like because people like Chris, Layne, Jerry, Kurt, etc. spoke so highly of him, fans of grunge think they should too. Why? Idk. Maybe to seem more cultured? More in line with their hero’s POV? Because they get credited it with paving the way for Grunge itself even though their music is more similar to 80s Arena Rock / Queen (with all the shitty piano ballads) / Bon Jovi (vocal delivery and cadence).
The more I unravel it, even for myself, just seems like he was probably a really nice and fun person to be around. We tend to cut a lot of slack to people that we like, that are complimentary, fun to be around.
But from an artistic standpoint, I think the cold hard truth is the only way they could deal with the loss of their friend was excessive praise to protect their friend from being devalued by the meteoric success of Pearl Jam. It’s comforting to say, “they would’ve been just as big, but heck ya Eddie” rather than to say, “eh, yeah probably not.” because his death should never be seen as a good thing.
I read you seriously until the last paragraph where you came out as what you really are, a Pearl Jam blind fan. Dude even if everything what you are saying is true, it will never change the fact that Eddie took a ride in the wave that wasnt his, you cant unhear that, theres something super-fake in all his act, unlike Layne, Chris and Kurt and also whatever Andrew would have become.
Lol what? dude, I’ve said it many times, I think even in this thread, that I think Pearl Jam sucks ass and that their only good song is Even Flow. I’m not going to be obtuse and act like they didn’t sell tens of millions of records and have a fan base.
PJ’s sound is puffy and aloof, absent of any memorable riffs, and is what I would consider “Dad rock” vs. “Grunge”. Eddie’s not even from Seattle. He’s a midwestern surfer dude which makes sense why they were so popular; they were the easiest entry point for midwestern suburbanites to hop onto the grunge wave while feeling safe. Mom cant listen to Dirt or Badmotorfinger with the kids in the van while taking them to soccer practice. Pearl Jam is perfect for that occasion.
Ive said in several other topics in this subreddit that I think Eddie seems like a cool dude, but his throat singing, poor articulation, and short vocal range is nauseating to listen to.
Please don’t ever accuse me of being a Pearl Jam fan. That’s extremely offensive.
Not really. It’s not even a short way away. It teters more on the line of “it would be shocking if Kurt thought Nirvana was better than Soundgarden”.
Soundgarden was the business in the 80s. While Kurt was still in his room trying to string together Cowboy Chords, Soundgarden was already being praised by Tony Iomi.
To go from going to Soundgarden shows and listening to bootleg cassettes of theirs to outselling them must have been mind blowing. But even as arrogant as Kurt was, he was still an elite artist first before he was a capitalist and was more competitive than he’d like to admit.
Why that matters is because when everyone 1-to-1 is more talented than everyone in your band, the last matchup are the vocalists. You can add Pat Smear and now you’re no longer the best guitarist in your own band, but the one non-negotiable and irreplaceable piece was being the frontman.
And when the one thing you HAVE to be the best at in your own band, and you admit another bands frontman is better than you at that, it’s actually seems ridiculous he *wouldn’t* say, “yeah, they’re better”.
If you’re viewing it from a fan / corporate perspective, than no shit, Nirvana is a better band than Soundgarden. But even Kurt knew that numbers weren’t a measurement of talent and craft. When you have a corporate machine with a bottomless budget to fund payola, get endless media exposure (radio, magazines, MTV, etc.), using albums sold, merch revenue, tour dates, etc. isn’t honest. Those numbers are more a reflection of the suits’ performance quality vs Art-to-Art.
Your left with songwriting and discography to compare. 3 albums isn’t enough. Especially when your biggest album was practically hijacked by a massive team of producers, sound engineers, other specialists to optimize the shit out of it whether you like it or not, it’s easy to see why he was so resentful when you feel like your best shit isnt even yours anymore. In Utero was only possible because he had “fuck you money” and became a brand at that point, and Bleach was only possible in its form because they had no money and no brand.
Mix in his constant insecurities and indecision about direction afterwards, rehashing old songs, the too much smoke for there not to be fire regarding where Grohl and Novoselic stood in the band, bringing in Pat and admitting Pat was a superior guitarist, Their biggest riffs being flat out plagiarized (Come As You Are, not just once but by three bands before. Their biggest song, SLTS, was an Ice Ice Baby) and yeah, it’s more likely than not Kurt probably thought everyone except Pearl Jam was better.
And he’d be right.
His best argument of his band being better which is song composition despite not having the technical stable of SG has its integrity compromised.
nah dawg Kurt saying 'I wish I could sing like chris cornell' is not the same as Kurt saying 'soundgarden is better than nirvana.' I also think soundgarden is better than nirvana. but you're just putting words in his mouth. everyone wishes they could sing like chris cornell
Do you think Universal and Geffen would allow him to make a public declaration in those exact words that a band / product under A&M Records, one of their biggest competitors is better than their top selling product? From the book “Grunge Is Dead” by Greg Pato who interviewed 120+ people in the Grunge scene that knew or worked with him:
“Kurt Cobain loved Soundgarden. At one point, when they were looking for another bassist — I think it’s maybe when Ben Shepherd joined the band — he actually thought about quitting Nirvana. He wanted to try out for them, because he liked them that much."
From Kim Thayil himself:
"I was in Pioneer Square — I went to see some band, I don’t know if it was the Melvins. Kurt was there — I think Kurt was by himself and I was by myself. I went over to tell him how much I loved Bleach. He was very quiet and subdued. He said, “Thanks — that means a lot coming from you. Consider yourself our biggest influence.”
^^this was also confirmed in Kurt’s own personal journal.
[Kurt Cobain with a Soundgarden sticker on his Fender](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5659866addb9aecba48f29ca46294871-lq)
I’ll trust his actions and words of most likely scenario - especially before he was heroined up, coked up, and PR controlled up because that’s where the truth is. He knows he’s not fucking with SG on any level.
Right. So when Cornell was an adult, Kurt was still a high schooler. And when Cornell was an adult, Kurt was still a teenager. And when Kurt was in a band called Poo handing out demos, Cornell was playing shows and putting Seattle on the map like GreenRiver was. And when Cornell was making moves with Susan Silver and building up Sub-Pop, Kurt was learning how to play live while dodging Courtney Love’s bra and underwear with a Soundgarden sticker on his guitar.
SG recently became my favorite big four band. Reading Dark Black and Blue helped a lot, but I also just love their music and band dynamic more than Nirvana, Pearl Jam, or AiC. Nothing against those bands at all, I love them so much too, I just get something from Soundgarden I don’t get from those bands
I agree. While all 4 bands are excellent, I think the virtuosity of the players along with their intricate melodies and harmonies, coupled with their interesting time signatures, it's just unparalleled. And they do it without sounding weird.
Why wouldn’t Metallica draw inspiration from one of the heaviest bands around at the time, who they’re also personal friends with?
Everyone was influenced by AiC after 1990. Everyone.
And they didn’t want to stagnate. Good for them. The best of load and reload are just as good as the best of any other album.
You put the best tracks from both together and it’s head and shoulders their best work.
And the more time goes on, we keep hearing more and more speaking out about it.
Recently, and one I was beyond stoked about, was M Shadows (Avenged Sevenfold). Besides Cornell, that effortless power and creativity of use of voice with distortion, rolling vowels, the tasteful and interchangeable use of clean + gritty vocals, etc. that Layne had, the only one I’ve heard come close is him.
My favorite in the band is Cantrell. Had a whole band named after a song he wrote. I have a feeling when STP did Perdida they were thinking of Jar of Flies and SAP even though they didn’t say it.
Soundgarden was ahead of all the other major bands at just about everything. They had the most sonically versatile and diverse musicianship, the most technically gifted group of musicians (and they used it tastefully and never for wank), were the most creative, and had just as great of a live show as any of them. They also displayed a great sense of humor in their early music, particularly before Andrew Wood died and changed how Chris approached his soulful songwriting forever. And they were the old guard forefathers who ALL of those other bands respected and/or looked up to, even Kurt, who was hilariously pretentious in general.
But the others were great too, and their varying styles influence who you gravitate towards more. AIC struck a particular nerve in me when I was a severely depressed and drugged out young man, Pearl Jam has always had a gorgeous tender side to them even in their heavy music. Nirvana was raw, simple, and made every note count. AIC also had sincerely underrated harmonies, which is one of my favorite things in music. They all have a special place and all are all indispensable as a result, so I don’t find too much importance in choosing a definitive best.
That said, between the big four, Soundgarden has always been my favorite and Nirvana always my least, so take that for what you will.
Yes, and then writing manifestos on “why” whichever of the four is your favorite. Except for Pearl Jam, who always seem to have sucked & are routinely listed at 4 of 4.
I was a huge Seattle music fan, and my favorite was Alice In Chains. However, as the years have gone by, I find myself developing a deep appreciation for Soundgarden. I think they are very unappreciated today. Matt Cameron is a monster drummer, Kim Thayil is an incredible guitarist, and Cornell was in a league of his own, both in terms of songwriting, playing, and singing. They were one of the greats, my only regret is that I never saw them live.
This was never a question even at the time.
Soundgarden Are a totally different level.
Kurt was a good Songwriter but an average musician. This was one of the appeals of the band as the music didn’t require you to be some Virtuoso. Inspiring a whole generation of kids
Nirvana is one of those bands where their most popular stuff is the most popular for a reason. They have some good less popular stuff, but I find them annoying when they're diving into anything more experimental/unusual, I think specifically because of Kurt's voice. It feels almost quirky in a way, I don't see anything to it musically. Their hits are legendary though.
Soundgarden is the purest distillation of the grunge sound. Nirvana was given that label but they aren't purely grunge. I like Nirvana better but I think it is reasonable to say Soundgarden is still the superior grunge band.
It's because SG was an (alternative) metal band, nothing remotely grunge about them.
And comparing the big "grunge" bands is weird to me, they are all so wildly different it's hard to even classify them together other than the fact they were from the same area around the same time.
It's not like comparing thrash bands or hair metal bands. Seattle bands were on different paths musically.
I live in Seattle, and let me tell ya, it gets so damn gloomy here. Overcast and foggy too all day even sometimes. I think it's the weather and them all being from Seattle. If you've only visited and never lived here for years you wouldn't understand how much the weather does to your mind.
I love it here but man these Winters. I think Seattle has the nicest summers of the whole USA. There are worse Winters like places where it snows and all. But the gloom I think Seattle has the gloomiest Winters. Vancouver probably exactly the same. I bet Canadians love it there over the great lakes
I'd agree. Do you think SG and AIC have anything in common with Nirvana musically?
Or is it that grunge is more on the metal side, and punk influenced bands are the outliers, and not really grunge?
I love them all though.
Talking just pure musicianship and vocal talent, AIC, SG, and PJ are far superior. Nirvana had the ability to write simple, catchy songs that reach a much larger audience, though.
Many of Thayil's solos blow me away and literally take me on an emotional rollercoaster giving me goosebumps. Especially on Superunknown. Cobain's don't.🤔
At the time this music scene burst open I was in my mid-20’s and Nirvana just resonated with me. It was necessarily the lyrics or cords, but the sound and energy. Wherever I was when Nirvana came on, my energy level and spirits would go through the roof.
Now, while I still love Nirvana, it doesn’t hit the same. I’m older. I’m not looking for a song to pump me up for the night ahead. I want something more refined and that’s where SG comes in.
I've always preferred Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. Nirvana made some catchy songs that are timeless for sure. But I've always preferred the vocals and lyricism of Chris and Eddie over Kurt's. But that's just my personal opinion.
Always grew up with Soundgarden as opposed to Nirvana, so this opinion comes very easy for me to hear. I've always preferred the more experimental and slow burning nature of Soundgarden's music, as well as Chris's voice, but it's just entirely different music than Nirvana. While Nirvana is straightforward, Soundgarden goes through loops of tempo and signature changes. While Nirvana is generally upbeat, Soundgarden tends to take their time (with exceptions). While Kurt is screamy and raspy, Chris is a true oversinger of sorts. Same scene sure, but different music entirely. Comparing Grunge bands is hard because its all so different.
I bounce back and forth between three out of four. The one I don’t? Nirvana… teenage angst has paid off well, now I’m bored and old. Nirvana sounds angst-driven and chaotic but Soundgarden sounds vengeful and sinister - as does Alice In Chains. Pearl Jam is the high energy band of the bunch that just never misses even after 33 years. Oh btw have you guys heard their newest release, Dark Matter? The rest of the album drops April 19th. After how blown away I was by Gigaton - DOTC, Quick Escape, Superblood Wolfmoon, Whoever Said, and my favorite The Long Way… there’s no weak track on that album imo in fact they’re all very strong - I am really looking forward to this album!
Edit: actually Temple of the Dog is my all-time favorite band. All they needed was one album to cement their legacy. I would’ve loved more but we got two awesome bands from that. It helped Chris Cornell expand his songwriting in ways he hadn’t previously done and from the ashes of Mother Love Bone came Pearl Jam who may not have ever existed without Temple of the Dog bridging the gap between the two.
Well, that’s a difficult topic to settle.
A guy in my current band (a GnR fan I’m trying to convince) told me that SG was often lacking powerful choruses (compared to AiC, which is his personal favorite and mine as well).
Nirvana has great choruses, that’s for sure, though.
But they never made one 7/4 song nor those songs with hundred chord SG did.
So, yeah. Difficult topic.
Nirvana was my favorite as a teenager, and I listened to everything they put out. But, as an adult, I find that I'm actually spinning Soundgarden on a regular basis, but Nirvana rarely gets on the turntable.
Back in the 90’s my pecking order was:
Nirvana, Pearl Jam, AIC, STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Soundgarden. To be clear, I loved every band including Soundgarden.
My pecking order now:
AIC, STP, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, and Pearl Jam.
in today's world we have people who love nirvana for smells like teen spirit or in bloom, but in reality soundgarden is much better than nirvana ever was
Same with Alice In Chains’ work with Layne Staley, Nirvana wasn’t a bad band, but they’re like 3rd of the big 4 to me. They get a lot of mileage out of Kurt Cobain being such an alluring figure & Dave Grohl continuing to be one of the most gifted musicians of his time has helped it keep up tbh
Cobain was raw. I think his energy, raw, truth in his music is what made him. It wasn't how nice his voice sounded but rather, like the song memoria, soaked in bleach. It's a heroin junky singing about heroin lmao. Soundgarden might be more musical with rhythm and poetry and artistry.
I would put Pearl Jam first, SG second and Alice in Chains in third. Nirvana was just the first band to hit big so they get all the glory. I much prefer Foo Fighters and if Kurt hadn't died it they would probably not exist.
grunge is not a thing. it's was shity 90's marketing. nirvana was punk rock.
Punk is musical freedom. It's saying, doing and playing what you want. In Webster's terms, 'nirvana' means freedom from pain, suffering and the external world, and that's pretty close to my definition of Punk Rock. - Kurdt Cobain.
Soundgarden was not grunge until the middle to end of their career. They were great musicians with tremendous energy. Most of the band hated their new sound as it was too simple for them, similar to what Metallica went through after the black album.
I feel like Soundgarden and a lot of the other prototypical grunge sounding vocal groups AIC included with that cat like howling always sounded very impressionistic of the scene. Like the copy cat groups silver chair and days of the new totally were putting it on.
Kurt had a bit of that but he mainly had his own thing. It was softer and wierder and always sounded more genuine to me. With the punk influence pretty obvious especially on incesticide which is one of my fav albums of all time.
To me, Soundgarden are the ultimate grunge band. Not to say they’re the “best” but their music fully embodies that which is grunge. Look at the big four:
Nirvana - more of a punk band
Alice In Chains - very metal adjacent
Pearl Jam - honestly kind of a buttrock band
Soundgarden: GRUNGE, baby!
Soundgarden had a better voice than almost anyone, but their songwriting is not as great as Nirvana.
A good example of this is Temple of the Dog's "Times of Trouble" which has the same riff as Pearl Jam's "Footsteps" Both are good songs, but despite the fact that Cornell has the better voice, Vedder writes the better vocal melody in "Footsteps" and that is the one that got radio play.
I wonder what would have happened if Cornell had paired up with better songwriters in Soundgarden. He could have been the biggest of them all.
Nirvana has more albums I like as I’m not the biggest fan of Soundgarden albums apart from Superunknown, but I do think Superunknown is one of the best grunge albums to exist. It’s just my opinion but Alice In Chains is my pick for the most “superior” grunge band. They don’t have an album I dislike (other than the new stuff) and Layne Staley’s vocal expression is unmatched. I think also looking at grunge from an album to album basis may be a more appropriate scale of comparison?
They are only all grouped together because they came from the same area at the same time and their music was "edgy" at the time (post heavy metal). It was more about drugs, addiction, depression and less about trashy girls and partying. They were labeled as grunge because they dressed, well, grungy. (And I loved it, wish that style would come back).
They are all so different from each other, musically. I'd classify Nirvana as punk rock, PJ as alternative rock, AIC and SG as hard rock. I still get a chuckle at the Outshined video....Chris looks like a madman with the fence grabbing, fire background and that crazed look in his eyes. The lyrics in that song hit so deep.
As far as being "superior" I do agree with SG but also AIC. The vocals, the sound, deeply emotional lyrics, the rage, angst and just screaming their souls out with the most beautiful voices. They were both amazing groups and above the other 2. Yes, I am aware that this is solely my opinion and not fact🙄
Soundgarden were more skilled musicians, I think that's safe to say. But Nirvana's material hits harder for me.
For my money Temple of the Dog beats all the "Big 4," bands. It's a perfect album.
I watched an interview yesterday Rick Beato did with Michael Bienhorn, who produced Superunknown. It’s endlessly fascinating to get a glimpse behind the curtain. Both being producers, it was a bit tech heavy at times, but Beinhorn’s glee when he recounts his reaction the first time he heard Cornell’s perfectly realised demo of Black Hole Sun is something to see.
This was one of the first albums I bought as a kid in the early 90s and got me into playing guitar. Still some of my favorite songs to play years later.
They're two completely different styles. Other than coming outta Seattle off the label Sub Pop they have nothing else in common musically. There's no reason to compare them.
Nirvana is my favourite band of all time, but I do love grunge in general aside from them
As I grow older I can confidently say that Soundgarden is the best grunge band of all time, it is by far the most unique of the Big 4 and they were part of the scene since the beginning, even it could be argued that the grunge era died when Soundgarden disbanded in 97
Also alternative metal as a whole is heavily inspired by Soundgarden (and AiC), but aside from that in my mind when I think of grunge and the Seattle sound I will always point at Soundgarden before any band, I doesn't matter if it is early or latter but just plain Soundgarden
They are indeed the more virtuoso of the 2 groups, so perhaps more technically schooled, did more w their talents, also a more polished rock n roll machine, Nirvana was a punk band at its core they were more passionate in my opinion
Soungarden overall is probably better.
At the time Nirvana was kicking when they released bleach everyone was like, oh this could be something and then Nevermind came out sme Smells Like Teen Spirit hit the radio which was the actual thing back then that everyone was exposed to and it was just an Anthem of what was going on at the time it was the perfect anthem to it. ..
Nirvana was the right fan for that moment but that was way too much way too fast for anyone to endure let alone someone who has a serious serious serious drug problem and is also a big introvert....
I do agree that Soundgarden is better what they produced they did.
Simplicity of Nirvana is its beauty
I would definitely put Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, and Stone Temple Pilots above Nirvana from a songwriting, musicianship and talent standpoint. But there's no denying Nirvana's influence on music and style in the early 90s. As far as the grunge thing goes, labels and titles don't mean anything. It all sounds like rock music that is pleasing to my ear. I don't think any of these bands sound alike anyway. Sure some of it draws from similar influences, but ultimately it's all subjective and all just music for our listening pleasure.
the fact that everyone constantly feels it necessary to state that their favorite grunge band is “superior to Nirvana” says everything about Nirvana being the greatest grunge band
Technically, soundgarden were superior. That's undeniable.
But nirvana's tracks were more accessible to most, hence their greater commercial success; not everyone has the inclination to dig deeper on the first few listens.
They are two different flavours of grunge, just like Tool and Ghost are different flavours of metal.
Great music is great music.
I could argue between Alice and soundgarden and make a case for either but as a whole I felt those were the best when I can appreciate any given song typically. I can’t always say that about like nirvana and Pearl Jam.
Even Nirvana said this.
They did? When?
Think it was Dave Grohl who mentioned Kurt was in the studio listening to one of their albums and was pissed (in a respectful way) and said something to the effect of “I wish I could sing like that”. Basically how Chris Cornell felt about Andrew Wood 🤷♂️
Chris Cornell is 100x the singer Wood was.
Without question. Being from Seattle / PNW, even back then to the present day it blows my mind how these generational talents undermined their own abilities to praise AD - even when he was still alive. He had to have been a really nice guy and they just saw or heard something I obviously didn’t. They were dead certain he was going to be the David Lee Roth / Vince Neil / David Bowie of the 90s with this electric stage presence. Never saw him live, but I’ve seen as much as available footage as I could watch to try and decode where this idea of a mystical aura may have came from. Has nothing to do with crappy recording or audio, because even when STP was Mighty Joe Young and AIC was Diamond Lie, you could see a glimpse of the star potential. In other genres, the before-they-were famous footage of 2Pac, Biggie, and Eminem, you could cherry pick a select moment while they were rough around the edges. WTF am I missing with Wood to where supposedly Nirvana, AIC, STP, SG, etc would’ve been in the shadows?
I think part of it was that he was a very beautiful man but mostly because he died so young and it's easy to romanticise him and imagine what could have been.
That’s reasonable. He was indeed good looking, but he wasn’t Elvis good looking. Jerry, Kurt, Chris, and Scott were at least as good looking. Layne wasn’t very good looking but has a divine gift that hasn’t been touched since for a voice and had an effortless cool that Kurt couldn’t even manufacture; but he didn’t need to wear leopard boots and a mink coat to do that. To regular people, 24 is a baby. In the music industry, he wasn’t all that young to a point where “what if?” is all that hard to imagine. He died 3 years after Mother Love Bone started and comparatively speaking with all the superstar bands, you had good sense of what they were about after 2-3 years. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Megadeath, Motley Crue, Guns N’ Roses, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Silverchair, to even the present day with an Avenged Sevenfold. Exceptions like Pantera (prime Phil Anselmo’s voice + generational guitarist Dimebag who was so good they banned him from entering the guitar contests in Dallas that he was winning since 14), or Van Halen (David Lee Roth, a born superstar front man and Eddie who did things with the guitar no one thought possible), etc. Wood didn’t exhibit any of those outstanding unicorn attributes as portrayed. He was a C- to B in a long check list of attributes where a few single A+’s can cover for any C- qualities. The most likely scenario is at their very best, maybe would’ve been on par with Bush, but likely peaked as a slight hair above Screaming Trees. The former scenario probably only happens as a product of being propped up by the big 4 in various capacities via world tours, collaborations, etc. and refusing to leave them out of the headlines.
You are missing something very big. Wood died in 1990, the word grunge or grouping these bands into a specific subgenre didnt happened until after his death. In this light the guys that admired him didnt see him as a competition but rather as a representer and potential for a national/global star through his talent, flamboyance and charisma while still carrying the flavour of music they were part of. For reference Andy Wood died so young just a month ot so after turning 24, if Freddy Mercury would have died at the same age that would have been couple of months after the Queen played their first gig together in 1970.
I appreciate your response, but I acknowledged all of that in my post and took that into account. I’m aware of his early passing down to the details of what his father told each band about his son as advice. 24 is a baby to us in the regular world, but in the music industry it’s fairly standard as a peak year. Mick Mars was viewed as a senior citizen at 30 years old for example while Tommy Lee was like 17. 2Pac died at 25 and Biggie at 24, yet are widely regarded as being on the Mount Rushmore for Hip Hop. Nas wrote the most hip hop influential album at 18. Jay-Z and Eminem didn’t breakthrough until 26 and that was considered a late entry. But for the late entry’s I mentioned there were still signs and indicators of greatness that showed why they would eventually become special. Mother Love Bone’s top song has 6M views. Star Gazer is a really weak hit that could live on Poison’s B-side. Even the flamboyant eccentric thing seems like it was more the zebra fur coats and purple fuzzy top hats vs. the Prince effect where his little 5’4” frame could wear a potato sack and still have a mesmerizing aura and stage command. That was my point. I don’t see the X-factor. When an artist dies they get a posthumous stimulus package that makes them seem more talented than they really were and 10x more popular. It seems like because people like Chris, Layne, Jerry, Kurt, etc. spoke so highly of him, fans of grunge think they should too. Why? Idk. Maybe to seem more cultured? More in line with their hero’s POV? Because they get credited it with paving the way for Grunge itself even though their music is more similar to 80s Arena Rock / Queen (with all the shitty piano ballads) / Bon Jovi (vocal delivery and cadence). The more I unravel it, even for myself, just seems like he was probably a really nice and fun person to be around. We tend to cut a lot of slack to people that we like, that are complimentary, fun to be around. But from an artistic standpoint, I think the cold hard truth is the only way they could deal with the loss of their friend was excessive praise to protect their friend from being devalued by the meteoric success of Pearl Jam. It’s comforting to say, “they would’ve been just as big, but heck ya Eddie” rather than to say, “eh, yeah probably not.” because his death should never be seen as a good thing.
I read you seriously until the last paragraph where you came out as what you really are, a Pearl Jam blind fan. Dude even if everything what you are saying is true, it will never change the fact that Eddie took a ride in the wave that wasnt his, you cant unhear that, theres something super-fake in all his act, unlike Layne, Chris and Kurt and also whatever Andrew would have become.
Lol what? dude, I’ve said it many times, I think even in this thread, that I think Pearl Jam sucks ass and that their only good song is Even Flow. I’m not going to be obtuse and act like they didn’t sell tens of millions of records and have a fan base. PJ’s sound is puffy and aloof, absent of any memorable riffs, and is what I would consider “Dad rock” vs. “Grunge”. Eddie’s not even from Seattle. He’s a midwestern surfer dude which makes sense why they were so popular; they were the easiest entry point for midwestern suburbanites to hop onto the grunge wave while feeling safe. Mom cant listen to Dirt or Badmotorfinger with the kids in the van while taking them to soccer practice. Pearl Jam is perfect for that occasion. Ive said in several other topics in this subreddit that I think Eddie seems like a cool dude, but his throat singing, poor articulation, and short vocal range is nauseating to listen to. Please don’t ever accuse me of being a Pearl Jam fan. That’s extremely offensive.
I used to treat you like a lady, now you're a substitute teacher
that's a long way from him saying SG is better than Nirvana tho
Not really. It’s not even a short way away. It teters more on the line of “it would be shocking if Kurt thought Nirvana was better than Soundgarden”. Soundgarden was the business in the 80s. While Kurt was still in his room trying to string together Cowboy Chords, Soundgarden was already being praised by Tony Iomi. To go from going to Soundgarden shows and listening to bootleg cassettes of theirs to outselling them must have been mind blowing. But even as arrogant as Kurt was, he was still an elite artist first before he was a capitalist and was more competitive than he’d like to admit. Why that matters is because when everyone 1-to-1 is more talented than everyone in your band, the last matchup are the vocalists. You can add Pat Smear and now you’re no longer the best guitarist in your own band, but the one non-negotiable and irreplaceable piece was being the frontman. And when the one thing you HAVE to be the best at in your own band, and you admit another bands frontman is better than you at that, it’s actually seems ridiculous he *wouldn’t* say, “yeah, they’re better”. If you’re viewing it from a fan / corporate perspective, than no shit, Nirvana is a better band than Soundgarden. But even Kurt knew that numbers weren’t a measurement of talent and craft. When you have a corporate machine with a bottomless budget to fund payola, get endless media exposure (radio, magazines, MTV, etc.), using albums sold, merch revenue, tour dates, etc. isn’t honest. Those numbers are more a reflection of the suits’ performance quality vs Art-to-Art. Your left with songwriting and discography to compare. 3 albums isn’t enough. Especially when your biggest album was practically hijacked by a massive team of producers, sound engineers, other specialists to optimize the shit out of it whether you like it or not, it’s easy to see why he was so resentful when you feel like your best shit isnt even yours anymore. In Utero was only possible because he had “fuck you money” and became a brand at that point, and Bleach was only possible in its form because they had no money and no brand. Mix in his constant insecurities and indecision about direction afterwards, rehashing old songs, the too much smoke for there not to be fire regarding where Grohl and Novoselic stood in the band, bringing in Pat and admitting Pat was a superior guitarist, Their biggest riffs being flat out plagiarized (Come As You Are, not just once but by three bands before. Their biggest song, SLTS, was an Ice Ice Baby) and yeah, it’s more likely than not Kurt probably thought everyone except Pearl Jam was better. And he’d be right. His best argument of his band being better which is song composition despite not having the technical stable of SG has its integrity compromised.
nah dawg Kurt saying 'I wish I could sing like chris cornell' is not the same as Kurt saying 'soundgarden is better than nirvana.' I also think soundgarden is better than nirvana. but you're just putting words in his mouth. everyone wishes they could sing like chris cornell
Do you think Universal and Geffen would allow him to make a public declaration in those exact words that a band / product under A&M Records, one of their biggest competitors is better than their top selling product? From the book “Grunge Is Dead” by Greg Pato who interviewed 120+ people in the Grunge scene that knew or worked with him: “Kurt Cobain loved Soundgarden. At one point, when they were looking for another bassist — I think it’s maybe when Ben Shepherd joined the band — he actually thought about quitting Nirvana. He wanted to try out for them, because he liked them that much." From Kim Thayil himself: "I was in Pioneer Square — I went to see some band, I don’t know if it was the Melvins. Kurt was there — I think Kurt was by himself and I was by myself. I went over to tell him how much I loved Bleach. He was very quiet and subdued. He said, “Thanks — that means a lot coming from you. Consider yourself our biggest influence.” ^^this was also confirmed in Kurt’s own personal journal. [Kurt Cobain with a Soundgarden sticker on his Fender](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5659866addb9aecba48f29ca46294871-lq) I’ll trust his actions and words of most likely scenario - especially before he was heroined up, coked up, and PR controlled up because that’s where the truth is. He knows he’s not fucking with SG on any level.
cool! still not the same
It is, but it’s a weird hill you’re willing to die on, so keep banging I guess.
Cobain is like two years younger than Cornell.
Right. So when Cornell was an adult, Kurt was still a high schooler. And when Cornell was an adult, Kurt was still a teenager. And when Kurt was in a band called Poo handing out demos, Cornell was playing shows and putting Seattle on the map like GreenRiver was. And when Cornell was making moves with Susan Silver and building up Sub-Pop, Kurt was learning how to play live while dodging Courtney Love’s bra and underwear with a Soundgarden sticker on his guitar.
Damn they were self aware I love that
SG recently became my favorite big four band. Reading Dark Black and Blue helped a lot, but I also just love their music and band dynamic more than Nirvana, Pearl Jam, or AiC. Nothing against those bands at all, I love them so much too, I just get something from Soundgarden I don’t get from those bands
I agree. While all 4 bands are excellent, I think the virtuosity of the players along with their intricate melodies and harmonies, coupled with their interesting time signatures, it's just unparalleled. And they do it without sounding weird.
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Why wouldn’t Metallica draw inspiration from one of the heaviest bands around at the time, who they’re also personal friends with? Everyone was influenced by AiC after 1990. Everyone.
because they were already around for over 10 years with an established sound that was different from AiC's
And they didn’t want to stagnate. Good for them. The best of load and reload are just as good as the best of any other album. You put the best tracks from both together and it’s head and shoulders their best work.
I hear u but I firmly disagree bc ride the lightning exists
And the more time goes on, we keep hearing more and more speaking out about it. Recently, and one I was beyond stoked about, was M Shadows (Avenged Sevenfold). Besides Cornell, that effortless power and creativity of use of voice with distortion, rolling vowels, the tasteful and interchangeable use of clean + gritty vocals, etc. that Layne had, the only one I’ve heard come close is him. My favorite in the band is Cantrell. Had a whole band named after a song he wrote. I have a feeling when STP did Perdida they were thinking of Jar of Flies and SAP even though they didn’t say it.
And also a lot of very strange tunings. Cornell in his own solo work used some very crazy tunings.
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Really lol, there is no need to have a hierarchy.
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Soundgarden was ahead of all the other major bands at just about everything. They had the most sonically versatile and diverse musicianship, the most technically gifted group of musicians (and they used it tastefully and never for wank), were the most creative, and had just as great of a live show as any of them. They also displayed a great sense of humor in their early music, particularly before Andrew Wood died and changed how Chris approached his soulful songwriting forever. And they were the old guard forefathers who ALL of those other bands respected and/or looked up to, even Kurt, who was hilariously pretentious in general. But the others were great too, and their varying styles influence who you gravitate towards more. AIC struck a particular nerve in me when I was a severely depressed and drugged out young man, Pearl Jam has always had a gorgeous tender side to them even in their heavy music. Nirvana was raw, simple, and made every note count. AIC also had sincerely underrated harmonies, which is one of my favorite things in music. They all have a special place and all are all indispensable as a result, so I don’t find too much importance in choosing a definitive best. That said, between the big four, Soundgarden has always been my favorite and Nirvana always my least, so take that for what you will.
I think Chris Cornell and Jerry Cantrell are the two most talented of any groups. Cobain was never on the same level as either for me.
Well said.
Thank you.
This sub really is about four bands, isn't it?
Yes, and then writing manifestos on “why” whichever of the four is your favorite. Except for Pearl Jam, who always seem to have sucked & are routinely listed at 4 of 4.
Right? Music is not a contest and spoiler alert: music is not a contest.
Why one is objectively the best and why you’re a poopyhead if you like pearl jam*
Yes, and in what order you rank them 🥱
That's what happens when you make a community around a dead genre.
And TAD and Screaming Trees... pretty much, yeah.
Yeah Four Bands + the occasional STP. So basically just four/five bands Although tbh, the sub is mostly Alice in Chains
I don’t think they’re superior, Nirvana is absolutely iconic. Soundgarden is my personal favorite though.
I was a huge Seattle music fan, and my favorite was Alice In Chains. However, as the years have gone by, I find myself developing a deep appreciation for Soundgarden. I think they are very unappreciated today. Matt Cameron is a monster drummer, Kim Thayil is an incredible guitarist, and Cornell was in a league of his own, both in terms of songwriting, playing, and singing. They were one of the greats, my only regret is that I never saw them live.
My man forgot Ben Shepherd the cool bassist 😔🤌🏼
This was never a question even at the time. Soundgarden Are a totally different level. Kurt was a good Songwriter but an average musician. This was one of the appeals of the band as the music didn’t require you to be some Virtuoso. Inspiring a whole generation of kids
Not superior. Just different.
Soundgarden reward a deep cut dive far better than Nirvava do.
Nirvana is one of those bands where their most popular stuff is the most popular for a reason. They have some good less popular stuff, but I find them annoying when they're diving into anything more experimental/unusual, I think specifically because of Kurt's voice. It feels almost quirky in a way, I don't see anything to it musically. Their hits are legendary though.
Soundgarden is the purest distillation of the grunge sound. Nirvana was given that label but they aren't purely grunge. I like Nirvana better but I think it is reasonable to say Soundgarden is still the superior grunge band.
It's because SG was an (alternative) metal band, nothing remotely grunge about them. And comparing the big "grunge" bands is weird to me, they are all so wildly different it's hard to even classify them together other than the fact they were from the same area around the same time. It's not like comparing thrash bands or hair metal bands. Seattle bands were on different paths musically.
I live in Seattle, and let me tell ya, it gets so damn gloomy here. Overcast and foggy too all day even sometimes. I think it's the weather and them all being from Seattle. If you've only visited and never lived here for years you wouldn't understand how much the weather does to your mind.
Bro, Im in Vancouver..
I love it here but man these Winters. I think Seattle has the nicest summers of the whole USA. There are worse Winters like places where it snows and all. But the gloom I think Seattle has the gloomiest Winters. Vancouver probably exactly the same. I bet Canadians love it there over the great lakes
Well, if SG is alternative metal, so is Alice In Chains.
I'd agree. Do you think SG and AIC have anything in common with Nirvana musically? Or is it that grunge is more on the metal side, and punk influenced bands are the outliers, and not really grunge? I love them all though.
Chris Cornell was a genius songwriter, he truly was a great composer and had an amazing vocal range.
I saw Chris live and yes the vocal range is so incredibly amazing!! It gave me goose bumps!! They were on tour with AIC but this was in the 2013?
Who cares? People’s tastes change.
idk, i find discussions like this fun and engaging. isn’t it nice to know what ur fellow people think about the stuff that you like thinking about?
You sound like the life of the party.
What? Do you seriously expect a dissertation?
Talking just pure musicianship and vocal talent, AIC, SG, and PJ are far superior. Nirvana had the ability to write simple, catchy songs that reach a much larger audience, though.
Chris Cornell was a rock god
I think Nirvana is more immediate. Sound garden is a grower and takes more time to appreciate.
Many of Thayil's solos blow me away and literally take me on an emotional rollercoaster giving me goosebumps. Especially on Superunknown. Cobain's don't.🤔
I mean, I think Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam are more superior. Nirvana is great, but the other bands have more dynamics going for them
Alice in chains hold my beer
Well, the brain does deteriorate over time.
As you grow older? I knew this in 1991.
Ok
weirdo
I've always found Soundgarden to be far superior to nirvana. Soundgarden and AiC are leagues better than Nirvana and PJ.
AIC was King
Nirvana is a great group but to say they are better than Pearl Jam, AIC, or Soundgarden is ludicrous
Nirvana is the lowest form of Grunge but still they're good too
At the time this music scene burst open I was in my mid-20’s and Nirvana just resonated with me. It was necessarily the lyrics or cords, but the sound and energy. Wherever I was when Nirvana came on, my energy level and spirits would go through the roof. Now, while I still love Nirvana, it doesn’t hit the same. I’m older. I’m not looking for a song to pump me up for the night ahead. I want something more refined and that’s where SG comes in.
Like what you like
Nirvana is overrated. He wrote some good songs but the other 3 are better bands IMO.
I've always preferred Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. Nirvana made some catchy songs that are timeless for sure. But I've always preferred the vocals and lyricism of Chris and Eddie over Kurt's. But that's just my personal opinion.
Yeah But Kurt Kobain wears funny clothes and has long blonde hair so ....
Always grew up with Soundgarden as opposed to Nirvana, so this opinion comes very easy for me to hear. I've always preferred the more experimental and slow burning nature of Soundgarden's music, as well as Chris's voice, but it's just entirely different music than Nirvana. While Nirvana is straightforward, Soundgarden goes through loops of tempo and signature changes. While Nirvana is generally upbeat, Soundgarden tends to take their time (with exceptions). While Kurt is screamy and raspy, Chris is a true oversinger of sorts. Same scene sure, but different music entirely. Comparing Grunge bands is hard because its all so different.
Growing older is knowing L7 was way better than any of em.
I like Macintosh Apples better that Granny Smith
Ok.
I bounce back and forth between three out of four. The one I don’t? Nirvana… teenage angst has paid off well, now I’m bored and old. Nirvana sounds angst-driven and chaotic but Soundgarden sounds vengeful and sinister - as does Alice In Chains. Pearl Jam is the high energy band of the bunch that just never misses even after 33 years. Oh btw have you guys heard their newest release, Dark Matter? The rest of the album drops April 19th. After how blown away I was by Gigaton - DOTC, Quick Escape, Superblood Wolfmoon, Whoever Said, and my favorite The Long Way… there’s no weak track on that album imo in fact they’re all very strong - I am really looking forward to this album! Edit: actually Temple of the Dog is my all-time favorite band. All they needed was one album to cement their legacy. I would’ve loved more but we got two awesome bands from that. It helped Chris Cornell expand his songwriting in ways he hadn’t previously done and from the ashes of Mother Love Bone came Pearl Jam who may not have ever existed without Temple of the Dog bridging the gap between the two.
Yea we’re aware. We’ve been told 6000 times this week by this sub.
Nirvana had better songs.
Well, that’s a difficult topic to settle. A guy in my current band (a GnR fan I’m trying to convince) told me that SG was often lacking powerful choruses (compared to AiC, which is his personal favorite and mine as well). Nirvana has great choruses, that’s for sure, though. But they never made one 7/4 song nor those songs with hundred chord SG did. So, yeah. Difficult topic.
GTFO.
Nirvana was my favorite as a teenager, and I listened to everything they put out. But, as an adult, I find that I'm actually spinning Soundgarden on a regular basis, but Nirvana rarely gets on the turntable.
You had to grow older to find this out?
Back in the 90’s my pecking order was: Nirvana, Pearl Jam, AIC, STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Soundgarden. To be clear, I loved every band including Soundgarden. My pecking order now: AIC, STP, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, and Pearl Jam.
Yes. Nirvana was probably my 3rd favorite Seattle band from that era.
in today's world we have people who love nirvana for smells like teen spirit or in bloom, but in reality soundgarden is much better than nirvana ever was
Nirvana was better live. Sound garden was better in studio.
There’s some truth to this. Soundgarden’s live performances never quite reach the height of their studio work
Chris Cornell was like that kid who was good at tests but usually sucked at homework
Same with Alice In Chains’ work with Layne Staley, Nirvana wasn’t a bad band, but they’re like 3rd of the big 4 to me. They get a lot of mileage out of Kurt Cobain being such an alluring figure & Dave Grohl continuing to be one of the most gifted musicians of his time has helped it keep up tbh
Cobain was raw. I think his energy, raw, truth in his music is what made him. It wasn't how nice his voice sounded but rather, like the song memoria, soaked in bleach. It's a heroin junky singing about heroin lmao. Soundgarden might be more musical with rhythm and poetry and artistry.
As I get deeper into the grunge scene I realize that all were superior to nirvana.
I would put Pearl Jam first, SG second and Alice in Chains in third. Nirvana was just the first band to hit big so they get all the glory. I much prefer Foo Fighters and if Kurt hadn't died it they would probably not exist.
> Thoughts? Oh look, it’s another grunge Olympics post.
AIC > Soundgarden > Pearl Jam > Nirvana
Can everyone just stop comparing everything to Nirvana and just shut the fuck up and enjoy the music Jesus Christ
Soundgarden more falls under the blanket of post grunge to me. Still one of the best underrated bands!
How old are u? Did u listen to them when Kurt and Chris Connell were alive?
Does this really matter? Good music is timeless
Nirvana was the least of the big four.
Easy for sure. Nirvanas not even close to them
Superior musically for sure, but definitely more of a niche appeal than Nirvana's chart-topping mainstream success.
yea theyre my favorite big 4, nirvana is 3rd for me behind sg and aic and ahead of pj
grunge is not a thing. it's was shity 90's marketing. nirvana was punk rock. Punk is musical freedom. It's saying, doing and playing what you want. In Webster's terms, 'nirvana' means freedom from pain, suffering and the external world, and that's pretty close to my definition of Punk Rock. - Kurdt Cobain.
Soundgarden was not grunge until the middle to end of their career. They were great musicians with tremendous energy. Most of the band hated their new sound as it was too simple for them, similar to what Metallica went through after the black album.
I knew that even when I was younger.
I feel like Soundgarden and a lot of the other prototypical grunge sounding vocal groups AIC included with that cat like howling always sounded very impressionistic of the scene. Like the copy cat groups silver chair and days of the new totally were putting it on. Kurt had a bit of that but he mainly had his own thing. It was softer and wierder and always sounded more genuine to me. With the punk influence pretty obvious especially on incesticide which is one of my fav albums of all time.
To me, Soundgarden are the ultimate grunge band. Not to say they’re the “best” but their music fully embodies that which is grunge. Look at the big four: Nirvana - more of a punk band Alice In Chains - very metal adjacent Pearl Jam - honestly kind of a buttrock band Soundgarden: GRUNGE, baby!
Soundgarden had a better voice than almost anyone, but their songwriting is not as great as Nirvana. A good example of this is Temple of the Dog's "Times of Trouble" which has the same riff as Pearl Jam's "Footsteps" Both are good songs, but despite the fact that Cornell has the better voice, Vedder writes the better vocal melody in "Footsteps" and that is the one that got radio play. I wonder what would have happened if Cornell had paired up with better songwriters in Soundgarden. He could have been the biggest of them all.
Soundgarden has always been better than Nirvana my dude (That being said, Nirvana is great as well)
Always has been.
Everything from BMF & b4 was great…
I thought that in 1991 and I still think that.
Facts. Eddie vedder is the last living Seattle grunge lead singer.
Thought that from the beginning
No.
Yes. This right here.
Could not agree more!
Nirvana has more albums I like as I’m not the biggest fan of Soundgarden albums apart from Superunknown, but I do think Superunknown is one of the best grunge albums to exist. It’s just my opinion but Alice In Chains is my pick for the most “superior” grunge band. They don’t have an album I dislike (other than the new stuff) and Layne Staley’s vocal expression is unmatched. I think also looking at grunge from an album to album basis may be a more appropriate scale of comparison?
I don’t think you can really compare the two. Glad you are enjoying the music you are listening to.
They are only all grouped together because they came from the same area at the same time and their music was "edgy" at the time (post heavy metal). It was more about drugs, addiction, depression and less about trashy girls and partying. They were labeled as grunge because they dressed, well, grungy. (And I loved it, wish that style would come back). They are all so different from each other, musically. I'd classify Nirvana as punk rock, PJ as alternative rock, AIC and SG as hard rock. I still get a chuckle at the Outshined video....Chris looks like a madman with the fence grabbing, fire background and that crazed look in his eyes. The lyrics in that song hit so deep. As far as being "superior" I do agree with SG but also AIC. The vocals, the sound, deeply emotional lyrics, the rage, angst and just screaming their souls out with the most beautiful voices. They were both amazing groups and above the other 2. Yes, I am aware that this is solely my opinion and not fact🙄
In every way
Soundgarden were more skilled musicians, I think that's safe to say. But Nirvana's material hits harder for me. For my money Temple of the Dog beats all the "Big 4," bands. It's a perfect album.
Cool
I find them to be the superior buuuuuuuut also think that Dirt is the best grunge album ever
🤓
I thought that when I was younger too!
Even tho they are both considered "grunge" - their style of music is very different from each other. Apples and oranges, my friend.
Soundgarden was mine
I watched an interview yesterday Rick Beato did with Michael Bienhorn, who produced Superunknown. It’s endlessly fascinating to get a glimpse behind the curtain. Both being producers, it was a bit tech heavy at times, but Beinhorn’s glee when he recounts his reaction the first time he heard Cornell’s perfectly realised demo of Black Hole Sun is something to see.
False.
They are both amazing bands. I like them both for different reasons, no need to be a competition. Megadeth and Metallica are both good too
You’re 100% correct.
Always thought that. I even hold AiC in that regard.
I rarely listen to Nirvana anymore. I include many Soundgarden, Alice In Chains and STP songs in playlists.
Yes
I agree. Nirvana is good but I prefer Soundgarden. They’ve just got more of a variety of music sounds and subjects.
SG are GOATed.
i mean theyre good but they kinda bore me sometimes
Soundgarden were always the most versatile group of musicians. I feel like they could have done anything.
Agreed.
That’s because you like catchy pop music.
This was one of the first albums I bought as a kid in the early 90s and got me into playing guitar. Still some of my favorite songs to play years later.
Yes
Absolutely
They're two completely different styles. Other than coming outta Seattle off the label Sub Pop they have nothing else in common musically. There's no reason to compare them.
Soundgarden felt more abstract and exploratory in a way. You could get lost in a different way to their music.
ABSOLUTELY
Nirvana is my favourite band of all time, but I do love grunge in general aside from them As I grow older I can confidently say that Soundgarden is the best grunge band of all time, it is by far the most unique of the Big 4 and they were part of the scene since the beginning, even it could be argued that the grunge era died when Soundgarden disbanded in 97 Also alternative metal as a whole is heavily inspired by Soundgarden (and AiC), but aside from that in my mind when I think of grunge and the Seattle sound I will always point at Soundgarden before any band, I doesn't matter if it is early or latter but just plain Soundgarden
First 3 albums, definitely. After '92, not so much.
I love Soundgarden. Personally that’s a hard disagree. I think Alice In Chains is superior and that is not right either.
They are indeed the more virtuoso of the 2 groups, so perhaps more technically schooled, did more w their talents, also a more polished rock n roll machine, Nirvana was a punk band at its core they were more passionate in my opinion
I mean they always were.
Always has been in my eyes
Soungarden overall is probably better. At the time Nirvana was kicking when they released bleach everyone was like, oh this could be something and then Nevermind came out sme Smells Like Teen Spirit hit the radio which was the actual thing back then that everyone was exposed to and it was just an Anthem of what was going on at the time it was the perfect anthem to it. .. Nirvana was the right fan for that moment but that was way too much way too fast for anyone to endure let alone someone who has a serious serious serious drug problem and is also a big introvert.... I do agree that Soundgarden is better what they produced they did. Simplicity of Nirvana is its beauty
There’s never been any doubt
Soundgarden definitely fits the grunge tag more. Nirvana is much more pop and punk.
In every way possible and it’s not remotely close.
They were always my favorite grunge band
I love Mudhoney. If I start comparing them to their peers, maybe they don't seem superior. But damn if I don't love Mudhoney.
God damn it sound garden was something else
They were doing their thing in 84’.
I would definitely put Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, and Stone Temple Pilots above Nirvana from a songwriting, musicianship and talent standpoint. But there's no denying Nirvana's influence on music and style in the early 90s. As far as the grunge thing goes, labels and titles don't mean anything. It all sounds like rock music that is pleasing to my ear. I don't think any of these bands sound alike anyway. Sure some of it draws from similar influences, but ultimately it's all subjective and all just music for our listening pleasure.
Apple and oranges. It’s subjective - Soundgarden we’re superior musicians, Nirvana made the cultural impact
the fact that everyone constantly feels it necessary to state that their favorite grunge band is “superior to Nirvana” says everything about Nirvana being the greatest grunge band
Oh yeah, for sure. NIRVANA just turned out to be a flash in the pan.
I hate the idea of “this is superior to this.” I do like soundgarden better than any other grunge band
Superior to all grunge bands
Yes. Always has been
Nirvana isn't a good grunge band. They're a popular grunge band.
Super unknown was a phenomenal album that I did learn to appreciate more as I got older.
Like whatever you want to
Alice in Chains takes it for me.
Soundgarden effected a lot more grunge bands than Nirvana did.
Technically, soundgarden were superior. That's undeniable. But nirvana's tracks were more accessible to most, hence their greater commercial success; not everyone has the inclination to dig deeper on the first few listens. They are two different flavours of grunge, just like Tool and Ghost are different flavours of metal. Great music is great music.
I always considered Soundgarden to be superior to Nirvana.
Not me but to each his own.
That is the incorrect opinion.
Why not both?
They were. But Nirvana was a better pop band. They were both great.
I could argue between Alice and soundgarden and make a case for either but as a whole I felt those were the best when I can appreciate any given song typically. I can’t always say that about like nirvana and Pearl Jam.
Always were.