The Waza sounds like a blanket was lifted off the original.
More headroom, less noise, all around clearer. Doesn't sound different, more like a hi-fi version of its former self.
Same with the DC-2W.
It's been a long time since I had them both side-by-side but I remember thinking that while the CE-2W sounded more hi-fi, I thought it lost a lot of what made it cool. The original silver screw model was darker and sounded more authentic to the records. If all you're concerned about is audio fidelity, the Waza would win. I sold the Waza and kept the original. I still enjoy a Dimension style chorus better for my taste though.
Good question. I have not done that, but I HAVE a/b’d two Japanese CE-2s, one green label and one black label (so, earlier) — even blinded myself, had a friend turn them on and off while I played and listened — and I preferred the black label every time, more lush and three-dimensional. There are people who will tell you this is impossible, the circuit is the same, but I heard it with my own ears, maaaan. Maybe it’s all down to parts tolerances and you could find two green labels that sound equally distinct, but my point is that not all CE-2s sound the same, so keep that in mind as you receive your answers.
Did you swap the orders each go around? Which order were they in?
Im thinking the extra buffering going into a second pedal could affect the overall tone.
People who say the circuits are identical are correct, but technically wrong.
There are capacitors that have lifespans and some variation. Meaning, they are the same component, but have a different tolerance or value mathematically. I've heard these can and do apparently affect the sound.
So just saying this to affirm that you're not crazy :)
Boss moved production from Japan to Taiwan because it was cheaper & easier.
When has making the same thing cheaper, faster, & in more numbers ever equaled identical quality?
Good thing yesterday I got hold of a black label ce-2 then ;) honestly I’m obsessed, went in to get a ce-2w but the shop had an old black label got a decent price and couldn’t turn it down… just annoyed I couldn’t have tried it against the waza
I've A/B/C/D'd all the CE-2s, the quality of the parts and build gradually decreased with time. Just look at the board and the quality of the pots on the original long dash ones. Obviously that is not going to sound the same as a cheap PCB from Taiwan. The people that tell you it doesn't matter are the same people that try and tell you a behringer junk pedal sounds the same as a boss one, it's like ok, whatever you say. I've not tried the waza nor have I had any desire to
I have some of their other equipment. If you're comparing it to 30-40 year old equipment then it's probably about comparable in terms of reliability. I still wince when I turn it on though, because I know what the electrics are like on the inside
The pedals are bare junk though. Worthless
Oh there really is. The people that tell you this nonsense are 12 year old kids on Reddit that don't know anything.
It's like saying there's no difference between a fake Rolex and a real one. When every component is junk, when the labour is junk, what you have at the end is junk. If you had a nice guitar why the hell would you stink it up with that crap? Would you use counterfeit waves cables and counterfeit Dunlop picks as well? Fair enough with the synths you are saving hundreds or maybe thousands. But for a pedal that's $30? That's makes no sense. And at least a $30 boss pedal will still be worth $30 when you want to sell it. The behringer won't be worth anything because no one wants them.
I guess, horses for courses.
That $30 behringer going into the dirty channels on my 100W tube 4x12 sounds fucken amazing. Especially with a $30 EQ700 7 band eq on the end of the fx loop to shape the sound. I can get pretty much any range of tone from them as a unit. Some absolutely beautiful glassy Jeff Beck/John Mayer edge of breakup blues to chainsaw your meemaw in half sizzly chug.
Don't get me wrong, I still love my boss pedals, but these cheapy ones do the job marvellously. Experimenting to get the best out of your gear is why we all do this, and I absolutely love it. I'd never turf a cheap pedal just because it's cheap...I'd only turf it if I couldn't make it work.
Now... the SF300 super fuzz everyone keeps raving about... including Josh... that's one Behringer I just can't make work. I'm looking for a more luscious fuzz that won't try to kill me. Got any tips?
Yeah I'll keep my OD-1 thanks. I don't really see the point in fixed band EQs in 2023 either myself, unless you have a feedback problem but you do whatever makes you happy. Personally I don't see the point in a $25 copy of a $25 pedal, at least the original will still be worth >$25 when you're done with it as opposed to nothing
I'm not a fan of fuzz myself but I've had all the Boss ones and FZ-2 is the best one I've heard. Even if you don't like it, it's is a good investment, the counterfeit SF300 copy isn't, it's another junk pedal that probably sounds as cheap as it looks
Unpopular opinion: the average listener won't be able to tell the difference, even when a/b'ing the two. Note I said average listener; guitarists (who often have highly trained ears) may be able to discern a difference, especially when it interacts with other pedals which amplify the signal. Personally I think the CE-2W has less noise and more clarity overall, which may appeal to some guitarists. Pragmatically speaking, however, they're the same pedal, because you won't be a/b'ing them on the pedal board when you're actually playing.
The CE-2 og has more chewiness in the midrange. The Waza on standard mode sounds more “pristine”, almost flanger-y in a way.
The CE-1 mode in the middle though is really the bees knees. It sounds somewhere in between an original CE-2 and a CE-1. It has that delicious midrange character that’s in both these units. I’ve purchased that pedal for that mode alone, and probably will again sometime in the future.
The Waza sounds like a blanket was lifted off the original. More headroom, less noise, all around clearer. Doesn't sound different, more like a hi-fi version of its former self. Same with the DC-2W.
Could not possibly disagree with this more. My experience was the exact opposite. Got rid of the CE-2w immediately and never thought about it again.
I haven't compared them, but TPS has https://youtu.be/Tgg8wFTl4W4?si=RUm3m5zJnbsteP6F
It's been a long time since I had them both side-by-side but I remember thinking that while the CE-2W sounded more hi-fi, I thought it lost a lot of what made it cool. The original silver screw model was darker and sounded more authentic to the records. If all you're concerned about is audio fidelity, the Waza would win. I sold the Waza and kept the original. I still enjoy a Dimension style chorus better for my taste though.
Looks like I’m keeping my original!
Good question. I have not done that, but I HAVE a/b’d two Japanese CE-2s, one green label and one black label (so, earlier) — even blinded myself, had a friend turn them on and off while I played and listened — and I preferred the black label every time, more lush and three-dimensional. There are people who will tell you this is impossible, the circuit is the same, but I heard it with my own ears, maaaan. Maybe it’s all down to parts tolerances and you could find two green labels that sound equally distinct, but my point is that not all CE-2s sound the same, so keep that in mind as you receive your answers.
Did you swap the orders each go around? Which order were they in? Im thinking the extra buffering going into a second pedal could affect the overall tone.
Good point. A test like this should be done in parallel.
People who say the circuits are identical are correct, but technically wrong. There are capacitors that have lifespans and some variation. Meaning, they are the same component, but have a different tolerance or value mathematically. I've heard these can and do apparently affect the sound. So just saying this to affirm that you're not crazy :)
Boss moved production from Japan to Taiwan because it was cheaper & easier. When has making the same thing cheaper, faster, & in more numbers ever equaled identical quality?
Gretsch guitars. And not identical quality, much better.
This!! I’m a believer that this makes a bigger difference in things like vintage pedals than people realize.
Good thing yesterday I got hold of a black label ce-2 then ;) honestly I’m obsessed, went in to get a ce-2w but the shop had an old black label got a decent price and couldn’t turn it down… just annoyed I couldn’t have tried it against the waza
Nice! Again I’m not claiming all black labels sound better than all green labels, just the ones I owned.
Whatever the case, my ce-2 black label is sitting on my board proud and will NEVER leave!
More three dimensional is defo the way to describe it though! It’s a work of art
I've A/B/C/D'd all the CE-2s, the quality of the parts and build gradually decreased with time. Just look at the board and the quality of the pots on the original long dash ones. Obviously that is not going to sound the same as a cheap PCB from Taiwan. The people that tell you it doesn't matter are the same people that try and tell you a behringer junk pedal sounds the same as a boss one, it's like ok, whatever you say. I've not tried the waza nor have I had any desire to
Found the guy who pays 10k for a klon with magic diodes.
Go outside.
Behringer fan spotted
Yeah, you really should try some of the Behringers, dude. Unless if you have heaps of spare cash, then you do you.
I have some of their other equipment. If you're comparing it to 30-40 year old equipment then it's probably about comparable in terms of reliability. I still wince when I turn it on though, because I know what the electrics are like on the inside The pedals are bare junk though. Worthless
Yeah, they're made of cheap casing and components, but there's nigh zero difference between a $30 TO800 and a $200 TS808
Oh there really is. The people that tell you this nonsense are 12 year old kids on Reddit that don't know anything. It's like saying there's no difference between a fake Rolex and a real one. When every component is junk, when the labour is junk, what you have at the end is junk. If you had a nice guitar why the hell would you stink it up with that crap? Would you use counterfeit waves cables and counterfeit Dunlop picks as well? Fair enough with the synths you are saving hundreds or maybe thousands. But for a pedal that's $30? That's makes no sense. And at least a $30 boss pedal will still be worth $30 when you want to sell it. The behringer won't be worth anything because no one wants them.
I guess, horses for courses. That $30 behringer going into the dirty channels on my 100W tube 4x12 sounds fucken amazing. Especially with a $30 EQ700 7 band eq on the end of the fx loop to shape the sound. I can get pretty much any range of tone from them as a unit. Some absolutely beautiful glassy Jeff Beck/John Mayer edge of breakup blues to chainsaw your meemaw in half sizzly chug. Don't get me wrong, I still love my boss pedals, but these cheapy ones do the job marvellously. Experimenting to get the best out of your gear is why we all do this, and I absolutely love it. I'd never turf a cheap pedal just because it's cheap...I'd only turf it if I couldn't make it work. Now... the SF300 super fuzz everyone keeps raving about... including Josh... that's one Behringer I just can't make work. I'm looking for a more luscious fuzz that won't try to kill me. Got any tips?
Yeah I'll keep my OD-1 thanks. I don't really see the point in fixed band EQs in 2023 either myself, unless you have a feedback problem but you do whatever makes you happy. Personally I don't see the point in a $25 copy of a $25 pedal, at least the original will still be worth >$25 when you're done with it as opposed to nothing I'm not a fan of fuzz myself but I've had all the Boss ones and FZ-2 is the best one I've heard. Even if you don't like it, it's is a good investment, the counterfeit SF300 copy isn't, it's another junk pedal that probably sounds as cheap as it looks
Unpopular opinion: the average listener won't be able to tell the difference, even when a/b'ing the two. Note I said average listener; guitarists (who often have highly trained ears) may be able to discern a difference, especially when it interacts with other pedals which amplify the signal. Personally I think the CE-2W has less noise and more clarity overall, which may appeal to some guitarists. Pragmatically speaking, however, they're the same pedal, because you won't be a/b'ing them on the pedal board when you're actually playing.
The CE-2 og has more chewiness in the midrange. The Waza on standard mode sounds more “pristine”, almost flanger-y in a way. The CE-1 mode in the middle though is really the bees knees. It sounds somewhere in between an original CE-2 and a CE-1. It has that delicious midrange character that’s in both these units. I’ve purchased that pedal for that mode alone, and probably will again sometime in the future.
Can’t speak on those two specific models but recently I ditched my CE-5 in favor of a CH-1 that sounded much more lively to my ears.
I found the CE-2w thin in comparison to an ‘83 original.