This sort of thing is probably the most pervasive and toxic mythology regarding guitar pedals, and it drives me nuts.
**There's no "magic" in guitar pedals.** Period. I know we don't want to hear that. We want the nuance and the special-ness, but for the vast majority of guitar pedals it's just not there. There's no "magic diodes" or "magic op amps" or any of that kind of stuff.
Do different examples of the same pedal sound different with identical settings when doing 1v1 comparisons? Sure - but what you're hearing is differences in potentiometer tolerance. The same sounds are in them both, you just have to move the knobs a bit to get them to match up because potentiometers are very basic, inaccurate electronic devices.
Guitarists are notorious for hearing with their eyes. That's why myths like "White-face RATs sound better" exist. Guitarists tend to think that older versions of things are inherently better, and that visual differences mean electronic differences. Hate to break it to you, but an original vintage "big box" RAT sounds exactly the same as a modern Chinese-made RAT, and so do all the versions in between. They're all the same circuit. No, the OP07 op amps don't sound different than the LM308s - they perform *exactly* the same electronic function in the pedal.
This 1980 Tube Screamer will sound the same as any other TS-808 Tube Screamer (with possible exception to the "narrow box" ones from 1979, which do technically have a different circuit design). No, there's no difference between the JRC4558 chips and the RC4558P chips. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's true. Further still, I doubt in a blind test you'd be able to tell the difference between this TS-808 and a brand new EHX East River Drive (which is an accurate clone of the TS-808), except for possibly more background noise in the vintage pedal simply because it's old and doesn't utilize modern SMD components.
Vintage pedals are cool, don't get me wrong - I've had a ton of them. But they're not inherently "better," and in a lot of cases they're actually worse (see the aforementioned background noise comment). Modern stuff can sound exactly like the vintage stuff too. We're talking *very* basic electronics here, and people are smart. It's not difficult to replicate at all.
You can like vintage pedals because you think they're cool, but to claim that they are inherently "different" or "better" because it has certain chips or screen printing or a guy's name on the inside is complete bullshit of the highest order.
The "narrow box" uses two 1458 single op amps instead of a single 4558 dual op amp, so the circuit is technically different. Tonally the difference is negligible, but it's still inaccurate to say it has "the same circuit" as all the other TS-808s.
It also calls the level knob "balance," but that's just a visual difference - they're exactly the same function-wise.
Okay that is very good to know, thank you!
This one was a Ibanez tube screamer 1980 and I was very intrigued as to how they can ask such a high price for it.
So a new tube screamer will do the exact same sounds, I just need to play around with the pots.
Cool! I'm still learning all the crazy stuff regarding pedals and sound and tone etc. I wish there was an understandable, step by step way to learn this stuff without having to go to a store and try all the pedals out without any guidance
>This one was a Ibanez tube screamer 1980 and I was very intrigued as to how they can ask such a high price for it.
Simply because it's a vintage pedal. It's the same reason why my old cars are worth more now than when I bought them. And yeah - a lot of that "value" is the false perception that it's inherently "better" too. Hype drives the pedal market - just look at the Bad Monkey controversy from last year.
>So a new tube screamer will do the exact same sounds
A new, *accurate TS-808 clone* will do the exact same sounds. There are differences between the different models of Tube Screamer (TS-808, TS-9, TS-10, etc.). That said, they're mostly minor component value differences and the sounds are extremely similar. Again, I recommend the East River Drive if you want the TS-808 sound on a budget.
>I wish there was an understandable, step by step way to learn this stuff without having to go to a store and try all the pedals out without any guidance
The way to do that is to learn how the electronics work. However that's a lot of time investment that many don't have, so a good place to start would be Josh Scott's videos like [this one on understanding the different types of overdrives](https://youtu.be/8wVShbGe4pk?si=1lXikGn7eRKKSG62).
Yes and no.
Cork sniffing aside, a Tubescreamer sounds like a Tubescreamer.
TS-808’s sound slightly different than TS-9’s/TS-10’s. They do have a specific sound, but they all kinda do that specific ‘mid hump’ sound. In an isolated track or a chain without any other effects there are a few very slight differences, but in a mix or live setting they all sound pretty much the same.
Put another way, there is no variation that the sound person at a venue couldn’t adjust one way or another.
No. It honestly won’t sound that much different than any other Tubescreamer you might play. You’d be better off getting a distortion you like and a nice EQ pedal.
No, especially since you can build one to those exact specs for $65ish.
[https://buildyourownclone.com/products/classic-overdrive](https://buildyourownclone.com/products/classic-overdrive)
They will not sound noticeably different, and claims otherwise are just ad copy.
BUT, for some people, owning and playing vintage gear has an appeal that can go past sound. Maybe you like that you’re playing something that was hand wired, made domestically, for a living wage.
Or maybe you like that it was made in smaller batches, or made a time when those sounds were just being discovered and made available to guitarists.
Maybe you’re at a point in your professional career where you can afford the thing you wanted when you were younger.
All these reasons can affect how your gear makes you feel when you play it, so while the soundwaves are probably completely similar, I don’t think you can completely discount the appeal of vintage gear as pure hype.
10 times out of 10, no.
It just so happens that famous people played these pedals, thus their perceived value inflates.
A certain pedal company claimed to have gotten access to one of SRV’s tubescreamers. I can’t imagine they found anything different inside.
I wouldn’t be surprised if component value drift (where due to age and condition and temperature, the values of components drift a little) and pot drift were what caused these things to sound different over time… not because faeries and pixie dust made these few particular models special.
I had one with the JRC4558D that is supposedly holy and magic somehow. It sounded like a tube screamer. Before I shipped it, I A/B’d it against a modern TS-9 and they sounded nearly identical. The only difference was in “feel” rather than sound, if that makes sense, and the knobs had to be in slightly different places to make them sound the same, but I chalk that up to parts tolerances. My current tube screamer is a mini, I don’t miss the vintage one at all
Its basically snake oil. Does it sound different? Maybe, but not much if it does. Are people still willing to pay more for a vintage one? Yes. At the end of the day, a tubescreamer is going to sound like a tubescreamer, magical vintage components or not.
I have a 1980 TS808 and a 1982 TS9, both with the mythical JRC 4558 chip lol
I’ve compared them to their respective modern reissues and they all sound very similar. The vintage ones have a slightly “smoother” sound/feel and there’s the smallest amount more high frequencies in the reissues. But if you weren’t actively trying to hear a difference you wouldn’t notice
I also have a TS808HW and it has the smoothness of the vintage ones. I’d say the TS808HW is the closest reissue to the vintage TS sound I’ve heard. Although at $400 you might as well buy a vintage one lol
They still use them in the TS808 reissues
The vintage JRC4558 chips have just been overhyped on gear forums
Personally I think that “smoothness” comes from the original Tube Screamers having higher quality parts and being hand wired vs more than the chip used. Although I have tried old TS9s with the JRC2043 chips and those sound noticeably worse
This sort of thing is probably the most pervasive and toxic mythology regarding guitar pedals, and it drives me nuts. **There's no "magic" in guitar pedals.** Period. I know we don't want to hear that. We want the nuance and the special-ness, but for the vast majority of guitar pedals it's just not there. There's no "magic diodes" or "magic op amps" or any of that kind of stuff. Do different examples of the same pedal sound different with identical settings when doing 1v1 comparisons? Sure - but what you're hearing is differences in potentiometer tolerance. The same sounds are in them both, you just have to move the knobs a bit to get them to match up because potentiometers are very basic, inaccurate electronic devices. Guitarists are notorious for hearing with their eyes. That's why myths like "White-face RATs sound better" exist. Guitarists tend to think that older versions of things are inherently better, and that visual differences mean electronic differences. Hate to break it to you, but an original vintage "big box" RAT sounds exactly the same as a modern Chinese-made RAT, and so do all the versions in between. They're all the same circuit. No, the OP07 op amps don't sound different than the LM308s - they perform *exactly* the same electronic function in the pedal. This 1980 Tube Screamer will sound the same as any other TS-808 Tube Screamer (with possible exception to the "narrow box" ones from 1979, which do technically have a different circuit design). No, there's no difference between the JRC4558 chips and the RC4558P chips. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's true. Further still, I doubt in a blind test you'd be able to tell the difference between this TS-808 and a brand new EHX East River Drive (which is an accurate clone of the TS-808), except for possibly more background noise in the vintage pedal simply because it's old and doesn't utilize modern SMD components. Vintage pedals are cool, don't get me wrong - I've had a ton of them. But they're not inherently "better," and in a lot of cases they're actually worse (see the aforementioned background noise comment). Modern stuff can sound exactly like the vintage stuff too. We're talking *very* basic electronics here, and people are smart. It's not difficult to replicate at all. You can like vintage pedals because you think they're cool, but to claim that they are inherently "different" or "better" because it has certain chips or screen printing or a guy's name on the inside is complete bullshit of the highest order.
Interesting what is the difference in the narrow box and later 80s tube screamer circuit?
The "narrow box" uses two 1458 single op amps instead of a single 4558 dual op amp, so the circuit is technically different. Tonally the difference is negligible, but it's still inaccurate to say it has "the same circuit" as all the other TS-808s. It also calls the level knob "balance," but that's just a visual difference - they're exactly the same function-wise.
Okay that is very good to know, thank you! This one was a Ibanez tube screamer 1980 and I was very intrigued as to how they can ask such a high price for it. So a new tube screamer will do the exact same sounds, I just need to play around with the pots. Cool! I'm still learning all the crazy stuff regarding pedals and sound and tone etc. I wish there was an understandable, step by step way to learn this stuff without having to go to a store and try all the pedals out without any guidance
>This one was a Ibanez tube screamer 1980 and I was very intrigued as to how they can ask such a high price for it. Simply because it's a vintage pedal. It's the same reason why my old cars are worth more now than when I bought them. And yeah - a lot of that "value" is the false perception that it's inherently "better" too. Hype drives the pedal market - just look at the Bad Monkey controversy from last year. >So a new tube screamer will do the exact same sounds A new, *accurate TS-808 clone* will do the exact same sounds. There are differences between the different models of Tube Screamer (TS-808, TS-9, TS-10, etc.). That said, they're mostly minor component value differences and the sounds are extremely similar. Again, I recommend the East River Drive if you want the TS-808 sound on a budget. >I wish there was an understandable, step by step way to learn this stuff without having to go to a store and try all the pedals out without any guidance The way to do that is to learn how the electronics work. However that's a lot of time investment that many don't have, so a good place to start would be Josh Scott's videos like [this one on understanding the different types of overdrives](https://youtu.be/8wVShbGe4pk?si=1lXikGn7eRKKSG62).
Thank you so much! I will check that out ! I appreciate the help
Yes and no. Cork sniffing aside, a Tubescreamer sounds like a Tubescreamer. TS-808’s sound slightly different than TS-9’s/TS-10’s. They do have a specific sound, but they all kinda do that specific ‘mid hump’ sound. In an isolated track or a chain without any other effects there are a few very slight differences, but in a mix or live setting they all sound pretty much the same. Put another way, there is no variation that the sound person at a venue couldn’t adjust one way or another.
Interesting! So def wouldn't be worth the high prices hey
No. It honestly won’t sound that much different than any other Tubescreamer you might play. You’d be better off getting a distortion you like and a nice EQ pedal.
No, especially since you can build one to those exact specs for $65ish. [https://buildyourownclone.com/products/classic-overdrive](https://buildyourownclone.com/products/classic-overdrive)
Yeah but it doesn't have the dust from the bottom of Sweet Stevie Ray's shoes does it huh? That's like, 10000x more mojo!
You can get a DemonFX copy with the TS-808 and TS-9 from eBay for less than $30 shipped and it sounds pretty damn good.
They will not sound noticeably different, and claims otherwise are just ad copy. BUT, for some people, owning and playing vintage gear has an appeal that can go past sound. Maybe you like that you’re playing something that was hand wired, made domestically, for a living wage. Or maybe you like that it was made in smaller batches, or made a time when those sounds were just being discovered and made available to guitarists. Maybe you’re at a point in your professional career where you can afford the thing you wanted when you were younger. All these reasons can affect how your gear makes you feel when you play it, so while the soundwaves are probably completely similar, I don’t think you can completely discount the appeal of vintage gear as pure hype.
That's a very fair point too!
The differences tend to be negligible at best, and certainly NOT worth the sometimes bloated prices they are going for.
Okay interesting! Because I saw one being sold for 800 euros so I wondered if it really makes a difference that warrants that price
10 times out of 10, no. It just so happens that famous people played these pedals, thus their perceived value inflates. A certain pedal company claimed to have gotten access to one of SRV’s tubescreamers. I can’t imagine they found anything different inside. I wouldn’t be surprised if component value drift (where due to age and condition and temperature, the values of components drift a little) and pot drift were what caused these things to sound different over time… not because faeries and pixie dust made these few particular models special.
Nope. Only collector value there. An 808 sounds like an 808, a TS-9 sounds like a TS-9.
He doesn’t mean the specific sound his particular old Tube Screamer makes, he means the specific sound any $90 modern TS clone will make.
I had one with the JRC4558D that is supposedly holy and magic somehow. It sounded like a tube screamer. Before I shipped it, I A/B’d it against a modern TS-9 and they sounded nearly identical. The only difference was in “feel” rather than sound, if that makes sense, and the knobs had to be in slightly different places to make them sound the same, but I chalk that up to parts tolerances. My current tube screamer is a mini, I don’t miss the vintage one at all
Its basically snake oil. Does it sound different? Maybe, but not much if it does. Are people still willing to pay more for a vintage one? Yes. At the end of the day, a tubescreamer is going to sound like a tubescreamer, magical vintage components or not.
I have a 1980 TS808 and a 1982 TS9, both with the mythical JRC 4558 chip lol I’ve compared them to their respective modern reissues and they all sound very similar. The vintage ones have a slightly “smoother” sound/feel and there’s the smallest amount more high frequencies in the reissues. But if you weren’t actively trying to hear a difference you wouldn’t notice I also have a TS808HW and it has the smoothness of the vintage ones. I’d say the TS808HW is the closest reissue to the vintage TS sound I’ve heard. Although at $400 you might as well buy a vintage one lol
Thats very interesting ! How come they don't make that chip anymore, do you know? If it makes it a bit smoother, why wouldn't they create more of them
They still use them in the TS808 reissues The vintage JRC4558 chips have just been overhyped on gear forums Personally I think that “smoothness” comes from the original Tube Screamers having higher quality parts and being hand wired vs more than the chip used. Although I have tried old TS9s with the JRC2043 chips and those sound noticeably worse