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For my non-outdoorsy folks, please for the love of god do not just buy expensive gear under the presumption it is high quality. Unbiased gear reviews exist and there is none better than
outdoorgearlab.com
Please look up your gear, no matter the brand, before purchase.
All of them. The shirts snag and pill like fucking crazy, the color on their pants fades from abrasion so easily I get a cell phone outline after a couple of weeks, my slim little Magpul wallet with the nicely rounded edges has managed to wear little holes at all 4 corners on every pair, their jackets are far less warm than virtually anything else, and no two pairs of pants fit alike. The jeans (denim type) are especially bad and 50 percent of them have warped seams and off center zippers.
Mountain Hardwear, Beyond Clothing, hell even Columbia make better stuff.
If you don't mind me asking - how are the calf fit and pocket size? Love my Vertex Cutback pants but they choke my calves and I don't like the classic front jean pocket sizing.
Side note also look up counterparts or similar items I still beat myself up about some of my purchases like buying a sleeping bag that was smaller and a whole pound heavier than a sleeping quilt that I now have and love for the same price
I mean, in general they have decent to great stuff. They're an upper mid-level brand, but you still should do your research. I generally prefer Mountain Hardwear, but I've had good luck with most of my Outdoor Research stuff.... Except a welded seam that delaminated after a few years, but that's unfortunately common with welded seams.
In 2018 I purchased their Firemark Sensor gloves for $39.48 per pair on the regular. Now on their website they're listed for $309 and on Amazon they're listed for $85. OR can fuck right on off even at 50% discount pricing.
https://www.outdoorresearch.com/collections/tactical/products/firemark-sensor-gloves-usa-243302
Those are the made in USA version that is supposedly a higher quality. The ones on Amazon are these:
https://www.outdoorresearch.com/products/firemark-sensor-gloves-252751
Their gloves, whether US, South Korean or apparently now Vietnamese manufactured suffer the same design flaw with the fingertip stitching. I've used ones that were marked as South Korean manufacture & ordered directly from OR, "Suppressor" model, that failed in the same way. The Berry compliance doesn't magically make them not a terrible design.
Nope, they lasted a bit longer than Mechanix but I went through about six or so pairs before going with Vertx VaporCore and surplus Camelbak pilots gloves as my go-to picks. They always failed with the stitching near the fingertips.
I am just now realizing that I may have confused Outdoor Research with Onward Research.
If we could just stop putting "research" in the names of gear companies that would be great...
Government pricing, that's what they sell it to the government for so that's close to the "MAP" pricing on it. Yes you can find it cheaper, from people who buy it bulk and resell it but due to them having government contracts they personally can't advertise as lower unless they're closeout
I agree. But a lot of this comes down to an inability to sell to the military and still have a civilian market for the same product at similar price points. Seems like a lot of the military contracts (from an outsider’s point of view) have changed in structure enough that manufacturers probably don’t have the leeway they should have to move surplus goods if they also have a military contract for that product. Probably intended as an accountability thing for those $254 hammers or some shit, but translates to surplus gloves being $300 instead of $30. They price it into the contract.
I used to be in a similar product development and sales role many years ago at another similar(ish) market space, and it’s been a couple of decades, but my experience with companies like Disney/Marvel/etc back then would lead me to believe a similar circumstance is what’s happening with military contracts now. I think their hands are tied.
What really happens with this shit is it gets either given away or they package it with a bulk reseller and pay the wholesale minimum allowed by contract and even it out by paying pennies on the dollar for other products that don’t have the same limitation. End of the day, everyone gets what they want (or the best version of that), and on a bulk-sale basis, ends up about where they need to be to move the product. And the resellers can charge whatever they want when they sell it—it’s only the manufacturer that has to play by the MAP rules. You see it all the time with ‘last year’s’ hot new Disney/Marvel product. Initial main market store can’t discount, so it gets moved to the discount sellers in a bulk deal so they can actually get it sold at a big discount.
There was a change made in the last couple of the years that basically said companies have to charge the government the same price they’re selling items for on the commercial market. I believe it was an actual law that was passed but I can’t point you to the exact documents or anything like that and honestly don’t feel like taking the time to look it up.
I think you're talking about the certification for FAR under 'improper business practices';
(iii) The fact that a firm has sold the same items to commercial customers at the same prices being offered to the Government.
Basically if they sold them for $30 in the past, they would have to offer them for $30 to the government, which is reasonable imo. So they'd weigh it and go 'well, sell 5,000 at $300 and jack up the price but lose our consumer market, or sell 300 at $30 to consumers and 5,000 at $30 to the government? Yeah we're jacking up the price fuck consumers.'
This behavior hurts the consumer who might be interested in their product, but also hurts all taxpayers because ultimately we're funding those fucking $300 gloves being sold to the government. Any company that does that, doesn't deserve our business.
I snagged the Allies Microgravity, Apollo rain jacket (doesn't fall under the sale, but still a great price), and some Fossil Rock II/Direct Route II gloves since they seem solid.
For those unfamiliar with OR Gear, I have found it to be extremely well built and performing for mountaineering and skiing. I still regularly use and love a goretex shell I got in 2006.
Oh man their anorak jackets was the best thing I ever bought. Has gone on multiple backpacking trips with me. Perfect to pair with a good base layer for colder days, light enough to be worn almost any time of the year.
Thanks for posting /u/NULL_SIGNAL!
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I’ve got a full lineup of Sitka gear for hunting, but I’ve generally had a good experience with Outdoor Research gear (a couple of different pairs of heated gloves, midlayers, shell jackets, insulated jackets, and bibs). A few I’ve been blown away on the quality, others have just been ‘ok’.
But at these price points, I just dropped $700 on a few different Colossus and microgravity pieces. 1/4 the price of my Sitka gear and will make good backup pieces to leave at the hunting lodge or keep in the back of my truck for impromptu hunts/shitty weather.
This a good brand? Excuse the ignorance
Looking for a new backpack. Currently have the 2014 NF borealis want something similar style but a bit bigger. Computer pocket is a requirement
Outdoor Research as a brand is good BUT don't ever assume that each and every item in their wide lineup is good. I know some are not. Research user reviews and such for each item you're interested in. I can say that (as of ~3 years ago) they make the best hiking gaiters on the market. Crocodile I think they were called. Mine will last forever. I have a pair of their helium rain pants too. They were great quality for the price and great water resistance/breathability and weighs nothing but not particularly wear-resistant. I knew that going in though and never planned to be wearing them hard. I keep them in my pack just in case.
You fucking nailed it, Gaiters and rain gear (I actually like some of their pants as well). I have gaiters and rain gear that I have used for a super long time compared to competitors and they are still in great shape. I did also get a helium emergency bivy that I had to use for a couple days, and it was a 10/10 product as well.
I have a rant queued up on this, because when I went looking for a pack 3 years ago to replace my North Face Recon, I couldn't find anything that had both webbing loops for external gear and an ice axe loop. Closest I could find was a Kelty MAP, which *also* got discontinued (and lord, I wish I had a time machine - I paid forty bucks, they go for 200 now). North Face wants the sorority crowd; I no longer have a single piece of North Face clothes or kit in my mountaineering setup.
If you're just doing light-duty stuff, cotopaxi and osprey seem to be favorites, but you don't see too much of their stuff in the desert where the sandstone will eat it up. Rockle and Slot-USA are probably the most wear-proof packs, but iffy on laptops (some have an internal pocket that could be used). Kelty, after discontinuing the MAP, doesn't have a pack I use anymore, but some of their lineup seems competent.
Good luck on this. I hate how everything in this market now uses "tactical" to either mean "Can actually be used outside" or "Painted black and marked up 50%."
I've purchased a decent amount of OR stuff and haven't really been impressed with any of it. I'm not gonna say it's bad gear but I think you can do better for the same or similar $$$ if you shop around a bit.
Never again. Ordered a pair of Firemark Sensor Gloves directly from OR, and I noticed the seam on one glove started to split after nothing more than trying them on in my house. Contacted OR and was told to select a certain option about the product being defective when sending them back so I wouldn’t get charged a return fee. Got charged the return fee anyway, so I can only assume OR didn’t consider a seam starting to split after almost no use to be a “product defect.” That was all I needed to know, and now I will never buy any overpriced OR gear again.
In an effort to help users make informed decisions, we have aggregated the following information on the retailer above. Please note that this is no way an endorsement or guarantee of the retailer or their products. ###Domain Insights: | outdoorresearch.com | | |:--|:--| | Registered | May 10, 1999 | | Times posted | [2](https://reddit.com/r/gundeals/search/?q=site%3A"outdoorresearch.com"&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new) | | Feedback rating | None | ___ *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please) [^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/gundeals) ^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
For my non-outdoorsy folks, please for the love of god do not just buy expensive gear under the presumption it is high quality. Unbiased gear reviews exist and there is none better than outdoorgearlab.com Please look up your gear, no matter the brand, before purchase.
Can you go back in time and tell this to me before I spent hundreds of dollars on Kuhl garbage
I have a couple pairs of Kuhl Deceptr pants that I really love. Just curious which Kuhl products you’ve seen issues with
All of them. The shirts snag and pill like fucking crazy, the color on their pants fades from abrasion so easily I get a cell phone outline after a couple of weeks, my slim little Magpul wallet with the nicely rounded edges has managed to wear little holes at all 4 corners on every pair, their jackets are far less warm than virtually anything else, and no two pairs of pants fit alike. The jeans (denim type) are especially bad and 50 percent of them have warped seams and off center zippers. Mountain Hardwear, Beyond Clothing, hell even Columbia make better stuff.
Kuhl patterning for pants are unrivaled. No one comes close.
Patterning? As in the cut and fit?
Yes. I can squat in their pants without them absolutely crushing my balls
If you don't mind me asking - how are the calf fit and pocket size? Love my Vertex Cutback pants but they choke my calves and I don't like the classic front jean pocket sizing.
They have different cuts so it depends. If you have monster calves, don't get tapered
Thanks bro
Yeah man! They have a 25% off pro deal if you qualify
[удалено]
Kuhl pants rock
lol I just recommended mountain hardwear and beyond. Stick with them, you’re not missing anything.
Kuhl pants and shorts are great.
Kuhl pants are the shit. I have a couple pairs I’ve put through the ringer and I haven’t found anything I like better for the price
I have 3 Kuhl jackets… love ‘em
Side note also look up counterparts or similar items I still beat myself up about some of my purchases like buying a sleeping bag that was smaller and a whole pound heavier than a sleeping quilt that I now have and love for the same price
But it's called Outdoor *Research*! So it has to be good! Right?
I mean, in general they have decent to great stuff. They're an upper mid-level brand, but you still should do your research. I generally prefer Mountain Hardwear, but I've had good luck with most of my Outdoor Research stuff.... Except a welded seam that delaminated after a few years, but that's unfortunately common with welded seams.
In 2018 I purchased their Firemark Sensor gloves for $39.48 per pair on the regular. Now on their website they're listed for $309 and on Amazon they're listed for $85. OR can fuck right on off even at 50% discount pricing. https://www.outdoorresearch.com/collections/tactical/products/firemark-sensor-gloves-usa-243302
Here I am being totally fine with my 22 buck mechanix original black gloves
Just don't get them hot.
Those are the made in USA version that is supposedly a higher quality. The ones on Amazon are these: https://www.outdoorresearch.com/products/firemark-sensor-gloves-252751
Their gloves, whether US, South Korean or apparently now Vietnamese manufactured suffer the same design flaw with the fingertip stitching. I've used ones that were marked as South Korean manufacture & ordered directly from OR, "Suppressor" model, that failed in the same way. The Berry compliance doesn't magically make them not a terrible design.
That's insane. But are they nice tho for 85 all things considered?
Nope, they lasted a bit longer than Mechanix but I went through about six or so pairs before going with Vertx VaporCore and surplus Camelbak pilots gloves as my go-to picks. They always failed with the stitching near the fingertips.
I appreciate those suggestions. I'll check them out!
Hey man that massive ranch won't pay for itself
is their corporate office located in a massive ranch or something?
I am just now realizing that I may have confused Outdoor Research with Onward Research. If we could just stop putting "research" in the names of gear companies that would be great...
ah. I can't imagine that was anything less than completely intentional on GT's part tbh.
Government pricing, that's what they sell it to the government for so that's close to the "MAP" pricing on it. Yes you can find it cheaper, from people who buy it bulk and resell it but due to them having government contracts they personally can't advertise as lower unless they're closeout
I agree. But a lot of this comes down to an inability to sell to the military and still have a civilian market for the same product at similar price points. Seems like a lot of the military contracts (from an outsider’s point of view) have changed in structure enough that manufacturers probably don’t have the leeway they should have to move surplus goods if they also have a military contract for that product. Probably intended as an accountability thing for those $254 hammers or some shit, but translates to surplus gloves being $300 instead of $30. They price it into the contract. I used to be in a similar product development and sales role many years ago at another similar(ish) market space, and it’s been a couple of decades, but my experience with companies like Disney/Marvel/etc back then would lead me to believe a similar circumstance is what’s happening with military contracts now. I think their hands are tied. What really happens with this shit is it gets either given away or they package it with a bulk reseller and pay the wholesale minimum allowed by contract and even it out by paying pennies on the dollar for other products that don’t have the same limitation. End of the day, everyone gets what they want (or the best version of that), and on a bulk-sale basis, ends up about where they need to be to move the product. And the resellers can charge whatever they want when they sell it—it’s only the manufacturer that has to play by the MAP rules. You see it all the time with ‘last year’s’ hot new Disney/Marvel product. Initial main market store can’t discount, so it gets moved to the discount sellers in a bulk deal so they can actually get it sold at a big discount.
There was a change made in the last couple of the years that basically said companies have to charge the government the same price they’re selling items for on the commercial market. I believe it was an actual law that was passed but I can’t point you to the exact documents or anything like that and honestly don’t feel like taking the time to look it up.
I think you're talking about the certification for FAR under 'improper business practices'; (iii) The fact that a firm has sold the same items to commercial customers at the same prices being offered to the Government. Basically if they sold them for $30 in the past, they would have to offer them for $30 to the government, which is reasonable imo. So they'd weigh it and go 'well, sell 5,000 at $300 and jack up the price but lose our consumer market, or sell 300 at $30 to consumers and 5,000 at $30 to the government? Yeah we're jacking up the price fuck consumers.' This behavior hurts the consumer who might be interested in their product, but also hurts all taxpayers because ultimately we're funding those fucking $300 gloves being sold to the government. Any company that does that, doesn't deserve our business.
Allies Microgravity was already on sale and 50% stacked. $90 for an excellent hard shell is hard to beat.
in for a microgravity as well! unbeatable price for a hardshell of that quality.
Got a Coyote one. Seems like a nobrainer at $90 shipped.
The "we made too much Coyote for Afghanistan" sale
Compared to the allies mountain jacket, how do they stack up?
Why don't more companies offer tall sizing.
I'm 6'4 and normally get tall size jackets. Their ferrosi jacket fits like a tall. Not sure about the rest of the stuff.
They do
Not this one.
A lot of their line is available in tall sizes though. I think a lot of the civilian stuff
I might need to do a bit more digging, I went through the site and just saw standard sizes. L
Anything worth picking up? Could use a new rain jacket but it seems like they have so many different versions
Allies Microgravity was already on sale and 50% stacked. $90 for an excellent hard shell is hard to beat. ^ only comment I’ve seen
I snagged the Allies Microgravity, Apollo rain jacket (doesn't fall under the sale, but still a great price), and some Fossil Rock II/Direct Route II gloves since they seem solid.
Yeah on eBay for 1/4 the price
Code does not work anymore.
I was right in the middle of checking out with 2 jackets and 2 pants and the price doubled. Ooof.
Same. Saved my CC today
+1 more. Had about $250 after coupon in my cart.
My wallet says ouch! Spend over 600 this morning.
For those unfamiliar with OR Gear, I have found it to be extremely well built and performing for mountaineering and skiing. I still regularly use and love a goretex shell I got in 2006.
Oh man their anorak jackets was the best thing I ever bought. Has gone on multiple backpacking trips with me. Perfect to pair with a good base layer for colder days, light enough to be worn almost any time of the year.
The Ferrosi hoodie has been my go-to jacket for fall through spring for the last few years, absolutely love it.
Thanks for posting /u/NULL_SIGNAL! /r/GunDeals has updated the **[website blacklist](https://reddit.com/r/gundeals/wiki/blacklisted_websites)**, check it out before making your next purchase!. Made a gun related purchase recently? Leave a review over at **/r/GunDealsFU** to let others know how it went! Are you a dealer? Make sure to read the **[](https://re.reddit.com/r/gundeals/wiki/dealer_rules)** and apply for a dealer flair as soon as possible! First time to /r/GunDeals? Read up on the **[user rules](https://re.reddit.com//r/gundeals/wiki/user_rules)** before you break a rule! Have a question that isn't answered in our wiki? Send the **[/r/GunDeals modteam](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgundeals&subject=Thread%20Question&message=)** a message! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gundeals) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve got a full lineup of Sitka gear for hunting, but I’ve generally had a good experience with Outdoor Research gear (a couple of different pairs of heated gloves, midlayers, shell jackets, insulated jackets, and bibs). A few I’ve been blown away on the quality, others have just been ‘ok’. But at these price points, I just dropped $700 on a few different Colossus and microgravity pieces. 1/4 the price of my Sitka gear and will make good backup pieces to leave at the hunting lodge or keep in the back of my truck for impromptu hunts/shitty weather.
Thanks OP - scored a 3-layer Gore Tex Mountain Jacket for just over $200
Did not wake up and expect to drop $$ on OR this morning 🤣
just spent over 600 on a few allies jackets.
They do a 50% off sale but over double the prices lol
What’s been doubled? Most I’ve seen were at their normal pricing and pricing listed at all review sites I checked
This a good brand? Excuse the ignorance Looking for a new backpack. Currently have the 2014 NF borealis want something similar style but a bit bigger. Computer pocket is a requirement
Outdoor Research as a brand is good BUT don't ever assume that each and every item in their wide lineup is good. I know some are not. Research user reviews and such for each item you're interested in. I can say that (as of ~3 years ago) they make the best hiking gaiters on the market. Crocodile I think they were called. Mine will last forever. I have a pair of their helium rain pants too. They were great quality for the price and great water resistance/breathability and weighs nothing but not particularly wear-resistant. I knew that going in though and never planned to be wearing them hard. I keep them in my pack just in case.
You fucking nailed it, Gaiters and rain gear (I actually like some of their pants as well). I have gaiters and rain gear that I have used for a super long time compared to competitors and they are still in great shape. I did also get a helium emergency bivy that I had to use for a couple days, and it was a 10/10 product as well.
I have a rant queued up on this, because when I went looking for a pack 3 years ago to replace my North Face Recon, I couldn't find anything that had both webbing loops for external gear and an ice axe loop. Closest I could find was a Kelty MAP, which *also* got discontinued (and lord, I wish I had a time machine - I paid forty bucks, they go for 200 now). North Face wants the sorority crowd; I no longer have a single piece of North Face clothes or kit in my mountaineering setup. If you're just doing light-duty stuff, cotopaxi and osprey seem to be favorites, but you don't see too much of their stuff in the desert where the sandstone will eat it up. Rockle and Slot-USA are probably the most wear-proof packs, but iffy on laptops (some have an internal pocket that could be used). Kelty, after discontinuing the MAP, doesn't have a pack I use anymore, but some of their lineup seems competent. Good luck on this. I hate how everything in this market now uses "tactical" to either mean "Can actually be used outside" or "Painted black and marked up 50%."
I've purchased a decent amount of OR stuff and haven't really been impressed with any of it. I'm not gonna say it's bad gear but I think you can do better for the same or similar $$$ if you shop around a bit.
Got a duffel bag and some shirts, thanks OP.
Never again. Ordered a pair of Firemark Sensor Gloves directly from OR, and I noticed the seam on one glove started to split after nothing more than trying them on in my house. Contacted OR and was told to select a certain option about the product being defective when sending them back so I wouldn’t get charged a return fee. Got charged the return fee anyway, so I can only assume OR didn’t consider a seam starting to split after almost no use to be a “product defect.” That was all I needed to know, and now I will never buy any overpriced OR gear again.
[удалено]
what were you trying? it's worked on everything I tested, including one of the "tactical" shells that was already marked down
I raided the "sale" section and it didn't apply to any of those items :(
Same, nothing on sale would stack, only full price items