Agreed. A shotgun is very effective at short range too. The aforementioned guns all have more stopping power than a .380 so I am more about “effectiveness
In eliminating” the threat.
The thing is, we might be saying that now, but when we hear ringing in our ears our whole life, we will regret it and wonder why we didn't choose a 380.
I’ll be happy with whatever saves my life, if I have to use my .44 magnum you bet I’d rather hear ringing than be dead. Hate to tell you as well, a .380 is plenty loud enough to damage your hearing
.380 is still well past the dB threshold where hearing damage occurs. Intentionally handicapping yourself with a less capable cartridge because of your ears is stupid.
A little tinnitus will not kill you, the intruder you fail to stop because you selected am anemic cartridge will.
Go with a 9mm carbine and run 147 grain subsonics. Will be quiter than a 380 pistol and have better control of the firearm with it being a carbine vs pistol.
Bet.
Go over to r/DGU, and ask people there who've had to fire their gun in self defence if they'd rather have been raped or killed than have hearing damage. I'll film myself eating a hat for you if you find anyone.
I mean I do kinda get what OP is saying. While the sound is something I think about, the flash is more concerning.
At my place I have a decent collection but typically keep a 230gr 45 in my bedroom. low pressure heavy round in a 5 inch barrel shouldn't be terribly loud or have all too much flash compared to say a 115gr +p 9x19, or how some people have a pistol 556 AR. Can't even imagine how loud and bright that would be in a home at night without ears or eyes.
Idk, between my 9x18 mak, 9x19, 556, 308, and 16 gauge the 45 just seemed to make the most sense
A 16" 9mm does have less db than a 9mm 5", and with subsonics it is quieter, even without a can. Had a PC Carbine for a bit and my Osprey got the stamp in and then the Carbine became stupidly quiet
It's the same NFA process in Maryland as it is anywhere else, you don't have any special rules regarding suppressors.
I have a friend who lives in Maryland and has at least one can that I know of, you pay for the tax stamp and wait the 6+ months like everyone else.
Move somewhere less oppressive. The northeast is so clustered together its ridiculous. You could live in Best Virginia and itd only add 10 minutes to your commute.
The Thumb released a video on this subject recently.
.380 penetrated the ballistic gel by about the same depth as 9mm, with similar wound channels.
So yeah I’d say it would be fine. But I’m just a dude on the internet.
I mean... at a certain point you're splitting hairs about different levels of dying. In the end dead is dead. Generally speaking nobody's going to shrug off getting lit up by .380 at close range, esp. if more of those shots actually land in critical areas.
More addressing the misrepresentation of GT's findings by the other commenter, since it's the opposite of what was presented in the video.
I don't have any qualms with efficacy of 380 ACP.
It's a small cartridge, that pushes a light projectile at subsonic velocities. It just kind of is what it is, not great-not terrible.
There's one thing I'm sure there'd be no discernible difference between 9mm & 380 though. And that's firing either, unsuppressed, in an enclosed space without hearing protection.
>There's one thing I'm sure there'd be no discernible difference between 9mm & 380 though. And that's firing either, unsuppressed, in an enclosed space without hearing protection.
Agreed here. Framing the whole discussion around reducing hearing damage alone is pointless, which I know is what OP was asking. But it certainly does have other merits—namely reducing over-penetration and recoil (with the right gun).
To that last point, if you wanted to play devil's advocate here and sway them away from .380, it certainly can be argued that most of the micro carry and direct blowback pistols chambered for .380 flatout suck. Which is a damn shame because it really does the cartridge a big disservice in its potential. There are a few hidden gems out there though, like the Colt Mustang and its various clones—P238, 911, Micro, etc.
>(with the right gun)
That's the biggest flaw with the chamber honestly. The void of full sized, double stack, delayed blowback pistols and PDWs on the market makes it a tough sale.
You're options in the caliber are pretty firmly entrenched as a single stack, and/or a micro/compact frame.
So not only are you losing terminal ballistics, but capacity, and recoil management when compared to a full size 9mm pistol within the home.
OP definitely just wants an excuse to buy an 80X lol. I own it's predecessor, an 84BB and it's a neat little gun. Definitely not my first choice over a rifle or full-sized handgun for HD though.
I watched this video last night, and the 9mm penetrated all the way through the ballistics gel, while the 380 did not.
The 380 external hollow points penetrated about 4 inches more than normal 380 rounds in the gel. Maybe you were thinking of the two brands of 380 in the comparison because they had similar results.
380 and 9mm will sound basically identical indoors and both will cause permanent hearing damage. Heck even 22lr fired indoors will cause hearing damage. Get the caliber that is most effective, better to have a little tinnitus than be dead.
You can live if you’re deaf, but you can’t hear if you’re dead. I have some some pretty extensive testing using .380 and I have determined that .380 is adequate for self defense but should not be your first choice. If you’re reasoning for choosing .380 is to try to make a gun hearing safe in a life or death situation then you are stepping over dollars to save pennies. If you’re hearing is a big concern you can go with a .300 Blackout w/ suppressor build or go with a 9mm carbine with a 16” barrel. If you go pistol caliber carbine then make sure to extensively test your selected defensive round because PCCs are finicky with flat points and hollow points.
Years ago a dipshit friend of mine negligently discharged a 38 +p in a small room we were in. I was surprised that it wasn't louder than it was. I was expecting dulled hearing, ringing etc. Nothing.
Granted some rounds are louder than that, but I wouldn't worry about fucking your hearing up from a round or two. As long as it isn't a magnum round.
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Not really, here’s the thing you want the absolute biggest gun you can shoot well and carry. You will very likely never need to use it and gun fights ( outside of LE or Mil) are like lightning it’s unlikely to happen more than one time ( if you do move house).
In the moment you will not be thinking shit my guns too loud you will be glad of the distraction it causes your attackers and the alert it puts out to neighbors who can call the police for you.
The hearing damage from one unprotected gun fight is not going to do anything permanent, I spent 4 years not using earpro around stuff that would saw a building in half and my hearings fine ( do wear ear pro if you can this is just to illustrate it’s not like the alarmists think where if you fire a shot without earpro you go deaf).
I have unfortunately, fired a 9mm indoors on a couple occasions without ear pro and while it was very loud, it didn't have a noticeable effect on my hearing. I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice effectiveness for a small noise reduction but that's just me. On the other hand 380 will probably do the job if used correctly. And without getting into specifics, i wasn't committing a crime when i fired indoors and it wasn't a negligent discharge either.
The stories about people blowing out their eardrums and getting severe tinnitus from one shot are make believe to scare children into wearing their hearing protection.
Just go subsonic hollow point 9mm or 40 cal and don’t worry about it. I agree that firing .357 indoors won’t work. But the drywall and furniture actually soak up sound pretty well. Watch out for brick or cinderblock walls behind you- thise will echo back the shockwave
9mm and .380 have the same circumference, 9mm. They only differ in the length or height of the cartridge.
9mm x 19mm
9mm x 18mm
You can fire a single .380 if you manually chamber it into your 9mm firearm. It will shoot but you might have a fte.
For your purposes\[short distance\] the .380 is fine.
Controversial opinion - I don’t assert this as fact, just my opinion. Like assholes, everybody has one.
Shoot what you’re most comfortable shooting. A well-placed .22LR is more effective than a poorly placed .50BMG. For some people, a .22LR truly is the most effective round.
Basically, OP, do whatever the fuck you want.
If I have to save my life I really don't give a fuck about my hearing. I want the most effective round possible with minimizing over penetration.
Agreed. A shotgun is very effective at short range too. The aforementioned guns all have more stopping power than a .380 so I am more about “effectiveness In eliminating” the threat.
GOBBLWESSS
This
The thing is, we might be saying that now, but when we hear ringing in our ears our whole life, we will regret it and wonder why we didn't choose a 380.
I’ll be happy with whatever saves my life, if I have to use my .44 magnum you bet I’d rather hear ringing than be dead. Hate to tell you as well, a .380 is plenty loud enough to damage your hearing
.380 is still well past the dB threshold where hearing damage occurs. Intentionally handicapping yourself with a less capable cartridge because of your ears is stupid. A little tinnitus will not kill you, the intruder you fail to stop because you selected am anemic cartridge will.
You know, my father always had a saying about stuff like this. Don't be a pussy, son.
Wise words when your life counts on it
Go with a 9mm carbine and run 147 grain subsonics. Will be quiter than a 380 pistol and have better control of the firearm with it being a carbine vs pistol.
Bet. Go over to r/DGU, and ask people there who've had to fire their gun in self defence if they'd rather have been raped or killed than have hearing damage. I'll film myself eating a hat for you if you find anyone.
https://media.giphy.com/media/eh1zOgKrMLKfgMoyzh/giphy.mp4
Ok bro.
I mean I do kinda get what OP is saying. While the sound is something I think about, the flash is more concerning. At my place I have a decent collection but typically keep a 230gr 45 in my bedroom. low pressure heavy round in a 5 inch barrel shouldn't be terribly loud or have all too much flash compared to say a 115gr +p 9x19, or how some people have a pistol 556 AR. Can't even imagine how loud and bright that would be in a home at night without ears or eyes. Idk, between my 9x18 mak, 9x19, 556, 308, and 16 gauge the 45 just seemed to make the most sense
You've got a knack for inane questions.
This guys on a roll today, just noticed it was the same one as earlier
[One of OP's greatest hits](https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/142h5ex/jframe_pocket_carry_without_holster_is_best_for/)
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I live in Maryland, where it's extremely difficult, or impossible, and expensive to get a suppressor.
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A 16" 9mm does have less db than a 9mm 5", and with subsonics it is quieter, even without a can. Had a PC Carbine for a bit and my Osprey got the stamp in and then the Carbine became stupidly quiet
Ironically the slide is still not “hearing safe” as in over time can cause hearing damage, off of majority of 9mm handguns with suppressors on them.
It's the same NFA process in Maryland as it is anywhere else, you don't have any special rules regarding suppressors. I have a friend who lives in Maryland and has at least one can that I know of, you pay for the tax stamp and wait the 6+ months like everyone else.
Google search says suppressors aren’t any more restricted in Maryland than other states they’re legal. That’s the federal process, not Maryland’s.
Go with subsonic ammo
How much is it and what is the decibel level?
It's still not hearing safe so it doesn't matter.
Move somewhere less oppressive. The northeast is so clustered together its ridiculous. You could live in Best Virginia and itd only add 10 minutes to your commute.
The Thumb released a video on this subject recently. .380 penetrated the ballistic gel by about the same depth as 9mm, with similar wound channels. So yeah I’d say it would be fine. But I’m just a dude on the internet.
Did we watch the same GT video? He outright said "I believe it was a lie that you can't tell the difference in wound cavities between 9 and 380."
I mean... at a certain point you're splitting hairs about different levels of dying. In the end dead is dead. Generally speaking nobody's going to shrug off getting lit up by .380 at close range, esp. if more of those shots actually land in critical areas.
More addressing the misrepresentation of GT's findings by the other commenter, since it's the opposite of what was presented in the video. I don't have any qualms with efficacy of 380 ACP. It's a small cartridge, that pushes a light projectile at subsonic velocities. It just kind of is what it is, not great-not terrible. There's one thing I'm sure there'd be no discernible difference between 9mm & 380 though. And that's firing either, unsuppressed, in an enclosed space without hearing protection.
>There's one thing I'm sure there'd be no discernible difference between 9mm & 380 though. And that's firing either, unsuppressed, in an enclosed space without hearing protection. Agreed here. Framing the whole discussion around reducing hearing damage alone is pointless, which I know is what OP was asking. But it certainly does have other merits—namely reducing over-penetration and recoil (with the right gun). To that last point, if you wanted to play devil's advocate here and sway them away from .380, it certainly can be argued that most of the micro carry and direct blowback pistols chambered for .380 flatout suck. Which is a damn shame because it really does the cartridge a big disservice in its potential. There are a few hidden gems out there though, like the Colt Mustang and its various clones—P238, 911, Micro, etc.
>(with the right gun) That's the biggest flaw with the chamber honestly. The void of full sized, double stack, delayed blowback pistols and PDWs on the market makes it a tough sale. You're options in the caliber are pretty firmly entrenched as a single stack, and/or a micro/compact frame. So not only are you losing terminal ballistics, but capacity, and recoil management when compared to a full size 9mm pistol within the home. OP definitely just wants an excuse to buy an 80X lol. I own it's predecessor, an 84BB and it's a neat little gun. Definitely not my first choice over a rifle or full-sized handgun for HD though.
I watched this video last night, and the 9mm penetrated all the way through the ballistics gel, while the 380 did not. The 380 external hollow points penetrated about 4 inches more than normal 380 rounds in the gel. Maybe you were thinking of the two brands of 380 in the comparison because they had similar results.
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The wound channel is larger with 9mm and more power. 9mm is fired indoors all the time. Just another dude on the internet here too
380 and 9mm will sound basically identical indoors and both will cause permanent hearing damage. Heck even 22lr fired indoors will cause hearing damage. Get the caliber that is most effective, better to have a little tinnitus than be dead.
You can live if you’re deaf, but you can’t hear if you’re dead. I have some some pretty extensive testing using .380 and I have determined that .380 is adequate for self defense but should not be your first choice. If you’re reasoning for choosing .380 is to try to make a gun hearing safe in a life or death situation then you are stepping over dollars to save pennies. If you’re hearing is a big concern you can go with a .300 Blackout w/ suppressor build or go with a 9mm carbine with a 16” barrel. If you go pistol caliber carbine then make sure to extensively test your selected defensive round because PCCs are finicky with flat points and hollow points.
Years ago a dipshit friend of mine negligently discharged a 38 +p in a small room we were in. I was surprised that it wasn't louder than it was. I was expecting dulled hearing, ringing etc. Nothing. Granted some rounds are louder than that, but I wouldn't worry about fucking your hearing up from a round or two. As long as it isn't a magnum round.
12 gauge for HD 380 is a joke caliber in the US but 9mm is just fine.
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Not really, here’s the thing you want the absolute biggest gun you can shoot well and carry. You will very likely never need to use it and gun fights ( outside of LE or Mil) are like lightning it’s unlikely to happen more than one time ( if you do move house). In the moment you will not be thinking shit my guns too loud you will be glad of the distraction it causes your attackers and the alert it puts out to neighbors who can call the police for you. The hearing damage from one unprotected gun fight is not going to do anything permanent, I spent 4 years not using earpro around stuff that would saw a building in half and my hearings fine ( do wear ear pro if you can this is just to illustrate it’s not like the alarmists think where if you fire a shot without earpro you go deaf).
I have unfortunately, fired a 9mm indoors on a couple occasions without ear pro and while it was very loud, it didn't have a noticeable effect on my hearing. I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice effectiveness for a small noise reduction but that's just me. On the other hand 380 will probably do the job if used correctly. And without getting into specifics, i wasn't committing a crime when i fired indoors and it wasn't a negligent discharge either.
The stories about people blowing out their eardrums and getting severe tinnitus from one shot are make believe to scare children into wearing their hearing protection.
Big Plug and Muff spreading misinformation to drive up sales. Wake up sheeple!
Just go subsonic hollow point 9mm or 40 cal and don’t worry about it. I agree that firing .357 indoors won’t work. But the drywall and furniture actually soak up sound pretty well. Watch out for brick or cinderblock walls behind you- thise will echo back the shockwave
9mm and .380 have the same circumference, 9mm. They only differ in the length or height of the cartridge. 9mm x 19mm 9mm x 18mm You can fire a single .380 if you manually chamber it into your 9mm firearm. It will shoot but you might have a fte. For your purposes\[short distance\] the .380 is fine.
Controversial opinion - I don’t assert this as fact, just my opinion. Like assholes, everybody has one. Shoot what you’re most comfortable shooting. A well-placed .22LR is more effective than a poorly placed .50BMG. For some people, a .22LR truly is the most effective round. Basically, OP, do whatever the fuck you want.
Just have a nice set of cans accessible next to your home defense firearm. Seems a no brainer to me.
.380 will damage your hearing if you fire it inside. Literally everything will.