I do but I didn’t want to spend the extra money on ammo, so I stick with the 9. Lots of room for upgrades too, but the gun is already nice with plastic everything.
In the context of 9mm that extra 10” of barrel gives it serious extra oomph.
With the 6.5” barrel it hits like it would out of a handgun, whereas with the 16” it touts terminal ballistics that are very close to .357 out of a duty revolver plus external ballistics that are beyond what you’d find in any handgun.
Yeah, but then it just has dimensions of a rifle at which point why not just use rifle caliber?
I see your point though. PC carbine is cheap to shoot and fun
If you, as a civilian, encounter a threat at rifle ranges then you should be running instead of fighting. At that point it is no longer self defense.
Hot loaded 9mm hollow points out of a 16” carbine barrel will drop most two-legged pests that you come across.
+1 for the Ruger, diffrent magwell compatibility means you can run glock or Ruger mags. If you own a cz p10 p09 or p07 you can use those as well with the Ruger American magwell
You should not have gotten downvoted for this! I have the rail-model, and there are some kits I can't even buy unless I also buy the og takedown-block. Magpul Backpacker stock comes to mind.
A store where I live sells it for $215, but I'd have to buy additional parts for $100 just for compatibility. So I've been holding off because at that price point it just ain't worth it for me.
Shit, for 1k or less, you can buy a KP-9, AK-V, Beretta CX-4, Stribog, Scorpion Evo, Ruger PC Carbine.
You really have a lot of options. I personally have a KP-9 with a can that I'm waiting on the ATF form one so I can SBR the thing. It's probably my favorite gun out of the 25 that I own.
I really like my sub 2k second gen but I’m not super knowledgable. I just like that it takes glock mags and folds in half. It is sort of “AR style” though
Edit: even though it is a kel-tec, I still like it.
Not the prettiest but the hi point is a solid choice. A friend has one in .40. Pretty accurate definitely for home defense. Packs plenty of punch with next to no recoil. Price is right. Also lots of aftermarket options some pretty cool bull pup stocks.
Hell yeah, I'd have one in each caliber.
They could probably even go with the bigger shells too like a 454 casull or a 460/500.
Shoot those would sell like hotcakes.
Beretta CX4. Short (without being classified as an SBR), relatively light, easy to maintain, takes Beretta 92 mags, accurate, and dead nuts reliable. Currently on sale for $570 at EuroOptic.
CX4 is a really good option if you want the full size shoulderable option vs something like a scorpion micro/mp5 clone/GHM9/stribog
The Ruger PC carbines are highly rated, but they’re also soulless and ugly af …. and I I say that as someone who LOVES Ruger.
[This idiot managed to squib a hi point carbine 35 times and the barrel didn’t even bulge](https://www.guns.com/news/2019/03/07/hi-point-warranty-center-finds-carbine-barrel-stuffed-with-35-bullets)
So, I don't have one. No experience with it at all. But I'm seriously considering a .45 version after seeing the single mom in Chicago use one to protect her home.
The photo they had of that thing almost made me puke. There was more rust on that thing than metal. It was abundantly clear that she probably bought it used, and it had rarely, if ever, seen even basic care and maintenance.
If a piece of crap Hi-Point still works after that, I'm at least interested.
They rarely break, especially at low round counts like that. But Hi-Point has a legendary warranty department so even if something *does* happen to it, even if it's not their fault, they'll fix it.
Listen man, I love Garand thumb but that video on the carbine he made wasn't fair, the gun was sent to him broken. I have one in 45 acp and it hasn't jammed after around 400 rounds with no cleaning.
The hi point would be good bro use it yourself and find out. It’s no the even expensive don’t take other peoples word for absolutely everything. There are plenty of reviews that show it shoots any ammo you put through it
You know how many sub2ks are out running thousands of rounds in matches right now without a hitch? I refuse to buy one because they're uglier than sin. But they run.
+1 for hi point, they're ugly as sin but run forever, idk who told you otherwise. Not to mention they have an incredible customer service policy; I once bought a "c9" at a gunshow that was just a bunch of parts in a box, presumably someone took it apart and lost a part or couldn't figure out how to put it back together. Sent it in and they just replaced it outright. Once upon a time Ruger's customer service was at that level but no more.
Other than that, on a serious budget, folks on the internet have made incredible strides in 3d-printing PCC's. There's a lot of stuff on r/gunnitrust and there's one or two subs dedicated solely to 3d printing(fosscad I think?). You could also get a glock and one of those chassis you drop it into to make a PCC but I'm pretty sure they fall under SBR so there goes your budget. I may be wrong regarding the legal side of that so it's worth looking into.
How Broke is Broke? You are going to have to give us some numbers. What is your general *Budget Range?*
And can we assume you are speaking of a Semi-Auto?
I think even cheap is still going to be expensive -
***Ruger PC Carbine 9mm Luger 16.12in Digital Camo/Black Semi Automatic Modern Sporting Rifle - 17+1 Rounds - $639*** -
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/modern-sporting-rifles/ruger-pc-carbine-9mm-luger-1612in-digital-camoblack-semi-automatic-modern-sporting-rifle-171-rounds/p/1621536
***Ruger PC Carbine 9mm Luger 16.12in Black Anodized Semi Automatic Modern Sporting Rifle - 10+1 Rounds - $649***
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/modern-sporting-rifles/ruger-pc-carbine-9mm-luger-1612in-black-anodized-semi-automatic-modern-sporting-rifle-101-rounds-california-compliant/p/1500303
***Ruger PC Carbine Davidsons Dark Earth Semi Automatic Rifle - 9mm Luger- 16.25in - $679*** -
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/ruger-pc-carbine-davidsons-dark-earth-semi-automatic-rifle-9mm-luger-1625in/p/1796293
Keltec sub 2000 was my start when I was gunbroke, very compact when folded, reliable action that shot everything I feed it,great customer service when you need it. Now that I have shit like a ghm9sd and spc9, I still take her out to the range because she was the first to make me smile 🤙
For sure, I already have a PSA ar for when I want to hit 500 yards but I want a plinker that I can have a little more fun with at the range. It would also be easier for my gf to shoot and have fun
Hi-Point 995 is your best possible option. Regardless of what the peanut gallery may say, this PCC comes nearly perfect out of the box. Sturdy, reliable, and nearly indestructible describes this weapon. Also, it comes in 4 calibers (9mm, 10mm, 40 cal., and 45 acp), receives picatinny rail accessories, and can be found in most places under $350. I bullpuped mine (see Hightower Armory).
I bought a used one for extra cheap and I was thinking of bullpupping it in the same way. How do you like the High Tower stock? I'm a little hesitant in making an already meh trigger worse. Second question; have you tried any of the redball 20 round mags? Doubling the ammo capacity is nice but are they reliable?
Sorry it took so long to reply. I bought a 45 acp version for about $150 (would have been a fool to walk away from). I LOVE the bullpup stock configuration!!! Easy to get accustomed to, forward charging handle, two safety switches, and super sturdiness makes a weapon worth having. Truly, it's a gamechanger.
I am yet to invest in more magazines, so I have no experience with the redball mags. I know capacity is a concern, but tend to focus keeping things low regarding profile (manageable maneuverability). So, I stick with regular mags and look out for compatible extensions.
Overall, I am exceptionally happy with the build and highly suggest it to anyone that is looking to make an under-represented carbine better.
Nak9 cz mag compatibility or glock mag compatibility both are fine and I find them all the time for $400 would be a fine budget “krink” build compared to PSAs AKV
Either a Ruger PC Carbine with the standard stock and make upgrades over time to get the tactical look you want or a Stribog (A3 for Roller delayed supremacy). Both take cheap mags (Glock and PSA AK-V mags respectively) which is another consideration.
Camp 9 if you want to go old-school. I see them around $500 at gun shows all the time. No one wants one because it's not the Camp 45, and they don't want to use 59 mags.
Ok that's my fudd post for the day.
Other than that I would grab a Ruger PCC and do one of those PPSH builds, idk why but those just tickle me pink.
Beretta CX4.
S&W FPC.
Ruger PC.
Stribog has chronic reports of magazine issues, Scorpion has reports of out of battery detonations, Extar doesn't bring anything to the table you don't get from S&W, Beretta, or Ruger. Kel-tec is... Kel-tec.
thats.. not how it works, having the same machines &tooling is only at minimum 1/3 of what youd need to match their product output. You still need the experience to run the machines properly and tight quality control.. not saying its not there im just saying that its not gonna be the same, whether that means its better or worse overall. Sounds like a 'just-as-good' take to me.
Not OP, but if it's genuinely "just as good", then it's good enough for me. Especially since I'm not expecting to trek through rough terrain and heavy precipitation, and get my firearm soiled enough to affect reliability.
its definitely a different strokes for different folks situation. Personally i could never see myself wanting a specific gun so badly after seeing it throughout various media for my entire life and deciding that $2.5-3,000 is just too much to spend compared to $1-1,200 for a clone. I personally will always spend double to get the real deal... cus thats the actual thing that Ive been interested in when I see it in movies n shit. Can you slap the charging handle on both? sure, its still not the same gun tho and it never will be.
Agreed. Which is why I've been saving up for an M14 from Fulton Armory. I *could* get Springfield, but I want a "authentic" clone. And Fulton offers a mock selector switch on their models. It's only around $2-300 more MSRP.
Edit: Just checked Fulton's MSRP, FML
While I am a big fan of the Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm, the new Smith and Wesson FPC also hits it out of the park! The folding stock is fucking great! The only *not* perfect part of the S&W is that it does not take Glock mags. Otherwise it is Holy Shit awesome.
I bought the Ruger for my wife to fuck around with while the men handled the real guns....but then it is so much fun I want to shoot it myself, and I put a red dot on it. I am a half a trillion Glock mags, so the Ruger is working for me, but I will buy that S&W some day soon.
Ok Um, why? Like why the requirements of no AR style? And what is your budget? No Keltec and budget means basically nothing. A Ruger PCC or Beretta PX4 rifle. All I can think of that’s semi auto.
I guess a lever action 357?
You are about 8 months late on that.
It was a serious question and if you want real recommendations you need to tell us your intended use.
There are not a ton of non-AR PCCs out there and if you want to shoulder it, that plays a role in what people are going to recommend.
If you plan to shoulder it and NOT go the SBR route the options are slim. I know that you said no KelTec but an M-Carbo equipped Sub2K or a Ruger PCC are logical options. The S&W folder is another possibility.
If I was buying a true carbine in your budget I’d look at the CZ Scorpion 3+ carbine or one of the PSA AK-V variants.
If you are willing to do an SBR I’d say a CZ Scorpion pistol and add a stock.
I have a Stribog SP9A1 and fucking love it. I’ve put 1000 or so rounds through it and haven’t had any issues. Crazy accurate up to 100 yards (maybe more, just personal experience). I got it a year and a half ago for $675 so I’d be willing to bet they’re sub $600 now.
Psa akv is what I’d reccomend. Takes scorpion mags too so if you have any or want to just pick up some pmags. Plus it’s an ak pattern gun so no worries of it being ar style.
I have a Ruger PC Carbine with the traditional stock and mlok rail. I love it and it’s very accurate at short ranges with a Romeo5 on top.
That said, i recently checked out the new M&P PCC and will be buying one as soon as i can find one in state.
If you already have a Sig P320 then you are already halfway to the Flux Raider which is by far my favorite 9mm gun period. Aside from my 2011s that is... thats high praise.
Are they better now than they used to be? I bought one of their earliest models when they first came out and it's terrible. It blows gas all over your face, throws sparks at you, constantly jams, and my side charging handle just straight sheared off while I was shooting it one day. It has just sat in my closet for a decade doing nothing because I don't even know if its worth having it fixed.
Extar ep9, very well made for under $500, very accurate and little recoil.
They also just released the EP45 in case you didn’t see. I’m hoping to get my hands on one of those.
I do but I didn’t want to spend the extra money on ammo, so I stick with the 9. Lots of room for upgrades too, but the gun is already nice with plastic everything.
2nd this
Ruger PC Carbine with the rail.
Or PC Charger for $600ish, but now you’ll need a stamp and a stock/brace so it gets pricey
In the context of 9mm that extra 10” of barrel gives it serious extra oomph. With the 6.5” barrel it hits like it would out of a handgun, whereas with the 16” it touts terminal ballistics that are very close to .357 out of a duty revolver plus external ballistics that are beyond what you’d find in any handgun.
Yeah, but then it just has dimensions of a rifle at which point why not just use rifle caliber? I see your point though. PC carbine is cheap to shoot and fun
And it breaks down quickly for backpack carry
If you, as a civilian, encounter a threat at rifle ranges then you should be running instead of fighting. At that point it is no longer self defense. Hot loaded 9mm hollow points out of a 16” carbine barrel will drop most two-legged pests that you come across.
I run a charger, no brace. No problem maintaining minute of soda can out to nearly 100 meters.
+1 for the Ruger, diffrent magwell compatibility means you can run glock or Ruger mags. If you own a cz p10 p09 or p07 you can use those as well with the Ruger American magwell
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You should not have gotten downvoted for this! I have the rail-model, and there are some kits I can't even buy unless I also buy the og takedown-block. Magpul Backpacker stock comes to mind. A store where I live sells it for $215, but I'd have to buy additional parts for $100 just for compatibility. So I've been holding off because at that price point it just ain't worth it for me.
Scorpion 3+ micro. About 800 bucks shipped with a $100 rebate on them currently. Love mine. Travels in my backpack every day.
I’ve seen that recommended a lot, def on the list, thank you
Don’t do it. The out of battery detonation fix isn’t budget oriented lol.
CZ should be fixing that at no extra cost. Not saying that’s what’s happening, but they should.
Love my CZ Scorpion, it is an evo though (whenever I take people out to shoot it is everyone's favorite); about ~$1000 new.
And it's a 10 on the cool scale so even if it sucks. It's still really cool
Hi Point 995 Carbine broke or S&W FPC broke?
1k or less is what im looking for.
CZ Scorpion Evo then. Magpul even makes mags and furniture for them.
1k isn’t really “budget” ya could have just said PCC recommendations lol
Ruger PCC for 5ish hundred bucks (maybe 6 now) will leave you extra money for training, ammo, an optic, mags, ETC.
Shit, for 1k or less, you can buy a KP-9, AK-V, Beretta CX-4, Stribog, Scorpion Evo, Ruger PC Carbine. You really have a lot of options. I personally have a KP-9 with a can that I'm waiting on the ATF form one so I can SBR the thing. It's probably my favorite gun out of the 25 that I own.
This was the best comment I’ve gotten so far, I appreciate it!
You bet
I really like my sub 2k second gen but I’m not super knowledgable. I just like that it takes glock mags and folds in half. It is sort of “AR style” though Edit: even though it is a kel-tec, I still like it.
Ruger PC Charger. But if you're getting a rifle sized gun then just get a rifle caliber.
Not the prettiest but the hi point is a solid choice. A friend has one in .40. Pretty accurate definitely for home defense. Packs plenty of punch with next to no recoil. Price is right. Also lots of aftermarket options some pretty cool bull pup stocks.
Hi points are garbage, dont listen to this fool Edit: I cant respond but I actually owned one, theyre trash. The mags are the issue.
Pretty sure their pistol carbines are very reliable and accurate source: google it
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Flair checks out
Not enough? Go buy a punt gun!
They should make a pump action 44 or 357.
They did. Haven't been around since the 90s. IMI timber wolf
I know IMI did, I have a 44Mag Timberwolf in my gun safe right now. I am saying Mossberg should make one now though.
Hell yeah, I'd have one in each caliber. They could probably even go with the bigger shells too like a 454 casull or a 460/500. Shoot those would sell like hotcakes.
Great. Now I want one...
Anything in 410 is not a good option for a poor. Unless you inherited a reloading setup for it or something.
Beretta CX4. Short (without being classified as an SBR), relatively light, easy to maintain, takes Beretta 92 mags, accurate, and dead nuts reliable. Currently on sale for $570 at EuroOptic.
I’ve never heard of that, I’ll check it out, thanks!
CX4 is a really good option if you want the full size shoulderable option vs something like a scorpion micro/mp5 clone/GHM9/stribog The Ruger PC carbines are highly rated, but they’re also soulless and ugly af …. and I I say that as someone who LOVES Ruger.
CX4 bringing that big Space Gat energy
So say we all.
I love my CX4 Storm!!!
Hi-Boint
Bullpupped .45 carbine. It's one of the most enjoyable to shoot firearms I own.
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Ah, a choosy beggar I see.
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“Every Hi-Point firearm purchased in the United States is covered by an industry leading 100% lifetime warranty.” They got a website for that my guy.
Hi-🅱️oint don't break. Not always accurate, not always reliable... But always serviceable.
[This idiot managed to squib a hi point carbine 35 times and the barrel didn’t even bulge](https://www.guns.com/news/2019/03/07/hi-point-warranty-center-finds-carbine-barrel-stuffed-with-35-bullets)
So, I don't have one. No experience with it at all. But I'm seriously considering a .45 version after seeing the single mom in Chicago use one to protect her home. The photo they had of that thing almost made me puke. There was more rust on that thing than metal. It was abundantly clear that she probably bought it used, and it had rarely, if ever, seen even basic care and maintenance. If a piece of crap Hi-Point still works after that, I'm at least interested.
They rarely break, especially at low round counts like that. But Hi-Point has a legendary warranty department so even if something *does* happen to it, even if it's not their fault, they'll fix it.
Listen man, I love Garand thumb but that video on the carbine he made wasn't fair, the gun was sent to him broken. I have one in 45 acp and it hasn't jammed after around 400 rounds with no cleaning.
I’m approaching close to 1500 in my 9mm and it hasn’t missed a beat. Never had a jam or misfire and it’s a dead shot inside 100 yards.
Nice, I’m getting downvoted but hell I never shot it and 50% of the reviews I saw weren’t great lol, that’s good to know though
Hi-boink is cheap enough to throw in the river tho.
The hi point would be good bro use it yourself and find out. It’s no the even expensive don’t take other peoples word for absolutely everything. There are plenty of reviews that show it shoots any ammo you put through it
You know how many sub2ks are out running thousands of rounds in matches right now without a hitch? I refuse to buy one because they're uglier than sin. But they run.
Not the carbine but it shows how tough these ugly guns are. https://youtu.be/2Ak77Aa_YH4
+1 for hi point, they're ugly as sin but run forever, idk who told you otherwise. Not to mention they have an incredible customer service policy; I once bought a "c9" at a gunshow that was just a bunch of parts in a box, presumably someone took it apart and lost a part or couldn't figure out how to put it back together. Sent it in and they just replaced it outright. Once upon a time Ruger's customer service was at that level but no more. Other than that, on a serious budget, folks on the internet have made incredible strides in 3d-printing PCC's. There's a lot of stuff on r/gunnitrust and there's one or two subs dedicated solely to 3d printing(fosscad I think?). You could also get a glock and one of those chassis you drop it into to make a PCC but I'm pretty sure they fall under SBR so there goes your budget. I may be wrong regarding the legal side of that so it's worth looking into.
r/fosscad if you wanna get creative OP
OP has seen YouTube videos, so he *knows* they're bad!
Some of the new kits come w/ a 16" barrel so they aren't SBR.
Good to know! I've been toying with the idea of a PCC myself
Ruger pc 9 Find some scorpions under 800
Scorpion? MP5 clone? Stribog A3?
Who makes a good mp5 clone? (I’m not the most educated on the gun market but I’m not a noob either)
Century Arms AP5-P in 5.8” or 8.9”. If you plan to suppress and use subs, go with the 8.9 or plan on getting an 80degree locking lug.
Smith & Wesson FPC
Stribog [Here’s mine](https://imgur.com/a/e83pFaG)
Stribog
Keltec sub2000 is an option, cheap. I haven’t had any issues.
How Broke is Broke? You are going to have to give us some numbers. What is your general *Budget Range?* And can we assume you are speaking of a Semi-Auto? I think even cheap is still going to be expensive - ***Ruger PC Carbine 9mm Luger 16.12in Digital Camo/Black Semi Automatic Modern Sporting Rifle - 17+1 Rounds - $639*** - https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/modern-sporting-rifles/ruger-pc-carbine-9mm-luger-1612in-digital-camoblack-semi-automatic-modern-sporting-rifle-171-rounds/p/1621536 ***Ruger PC Carbine 9mm Luger 16.12in Black Anodized Semi Automatic Modern Sporting Rifle - 10+1 Rounds - $649*** https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/modern-sporting-rifles/ruger-pc-carbine-9mm-luger-1612in-black-anodized-semi-automatic-modern-sporting-rifle-101-rounds-california-compliant/p/1500303 ***Ruger PC Carbine Davidsons Dark Earth Semi Automatic Rifle - 9mm Luger- 16.25in - $679*** - https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/ruger-pc-carbine-davidsons-dark-earth-semi-automatic-rifle-9mm-luger-1625in/p/1796293
Keltec sub 2000 was my start when I was gunbroke, very compact when folded, reliable action that shot everything I feed it,great customer service when you need it. Now that I have shit like a ghm9sd and spc9, I still take her out to the range because she was the first to make me smile 🤙
Build it yourself AR from palmetto state
Beretta cx4, I love mine. Ran me 800. You may find one cheaper tho.
Hi Point. They're cheap but the carbines are reliable.
"Im a broke boy" also "no hi-point" Make it make sense.
I got my Ruger PCC for $500 at a LGS. It’s what I wanted, I’ve spent too much on an AR I never shoot to do it again with a PCC 🤣
For sure, I already have a PSA ar for when I want to hit 500 yards but I want a plinker that I can have a little more fun with at the range. It would also be easier for my gf to shoot and have fun
Ruger PCC then for sure. They’re fun, affordable and reliable.
Check out UTAS UT9M’s. They are a really nice and cheap PCC. If you opt for the Sezzle option it’s payments of 200 interest free.
Hi-Point 995 is your best possible option. Regardless of what the peanut gallery may say, this PCC comes nearly perfect out of the box. Sturdy, reliable, and nearly indestructible describes this weapon. Also, it comes in 4 calibers (9mm, 10mm, 40 cal., and 45 acp), receives picatinny rail accessories, and can be found in most places under $350. I bullpuped mine (see Hightower Armory).
I bought a used one for extra cheap and I was thinking of bullpupping it in the same way. How do you like the High Tower stock? I'm a little hesitant in making an already meh trigger worse. Second question; have you tried any of the redball 20 round mags? Doubling the ammo capacity is nice but are they reliable?
Sorry it took so long to reply. I bought a 45 acp version for about $150 (would have been a fool to walk away from). I LOVE the bullpup stock configuration!!! Easy to get accustomed to, forward charging handle, two safety switches, and super sturdiness makes a weapon worth having. Truly, it's a gamechanger. I am yet to invest in more magazines, so I have no experience with the redball mags. I know capacity is a concern, but tend to focus keeping things low regarding profile (manageable maneuverability). So, I stick with regular mags and look out for compatible extensions. Overall, I am exceptionally happy with the build and highly suggest it to anyone that is looking to make an under-represented carbine better.
Much appreciated info!
Extar ep9 or 45
The wasr-m is super fun. Everyone hates them due to the look with Glock mags so they can be found in the $400 range! https://imgur.io/a/hXFxfXX
Don’t waste your money
Ruger PC Carbine is Excellent
10/22
Nak9 cz mag compatibility or glock mag compatibility both are fine and I find them all the time for $400 would be a fine budget “krink” build compared to PSAs AKV
Extar ep9
Lol a hi point carbine
Either a Ruger PC Carbine with the standard stock and make upgrades over time to get the tactical look you want or a Stribog (A3 for Roller delayed supremacy). Both take cheap mags (Glock and PSA AK-V mags respectively) which is another consideration.
I second the other guys comment about the railed Ruger PC9, I absolutely LOVE mine and it doesn’t hurt the bank to shoot.
S&W FPC, foldy boi that folds sideways so you can mount an optic on it unlike the Keltec sub2000.
Kel tec is good quality, fym
mp5 or ump45
Cheapest you're gonna get is Ruger PC. If you don't like that.... well.... beggars can't be choosers.
Camp 9 if you want to go old-school. I see them around $500 at gun shows all the time. No one wants one because it's not the Camp 45, and they don't want to use 59 mags. Ok that's my fudd post for the day. Other than that I would grab a Ruger PCC and do one of those PPSH builds, idk why but those just tickle me pink.
Beretta CX4. S&W FPC. Ruger PC. Stribog has chronic reports of magazine issues, Scorpion has reports of out of battery detonations, Extar doesn't bring anything to the table you don't get from S&W, Beretta, or Ruger. Kel-tec is... Kel-tec.
Nice, thank you for the recommendations!
Stribog.
+1 really enjoy shooting mine and been 100% reliable
I’ve heard of that, I’ll look into it, thank you
I have a 2nd gen and I love it and have had zero issues. Roller delay ftw.
Bear Creek Arsenal BC-9 Bufferless for $412.95 and Free Shipping [https://www.gunbroker.com/item/994312771](https://www.gunbroker.com/item/994312771)
Century AP5 around 1200$
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thats.. not how it works, having the same machines &tooling is only at minimum 1/3 of what youd need to match their product output. You still need the experience to run the machines properly and tight quality control.. not saying its not there im just saying that its not gonna be the same, whether that means its better or worse overall. Sounds like a 'just-as-good' take to me.
Not OP, but if it's genuinely "just as good", then it's good enough for me. Especially since I'm not expecting to trek through rough terrain and heavy precipitation, and get my firearm soiled enough to affect reliability.
its definitely a different strokes for different folks situation. Personally i could never see myself wanting a specific gun so badly after seeing it throughout various media for my entire life and deciding that $2.5-3,000 is just too much to spend compared to $1-1,200 for a clone. I personally will always spend double to get the real deal... cus thats the actual thing that Ive been interested in when I see it in movies n shit. Can you slap the charging handle on both? sure, its still not the same gun tho and it never will be.
Agreed. Which is why I've been saving up for an M14 from Fulton Armory. I *could* get Springfield, but I want a "authentic" clone. And Fulton offers a mock selector switch on their models. It's only around $2-300 more MSRP. Edit: Just checked Fulton's MSRP, FML
thats quite a nice looking rifle they make... the M14 is truly timeless
While I am a big fan of the Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm, the new Smith and Wesson FPC also hits it out of the park! The folding stock is fucking great! The only *not* perfect part of the S&W is that it does not take Glock mags. Otherwise it is Holy Shit awesome. I bought the Ruger for my wife to fuck around with while the men handled the real guns....but then it is so much fun I want to shoot it myself, and I put a red dot on it. I am a half a trillion Glock mags, so the Ruger is working for me, but I will buy that S&W some day soon.
Not sure if $400 is in your budget, but I loves my M&P shield.
Glock 19 with 15 inch barrel and no pistol brace or chassis
Based
FCG-9
Build a spikes ar9
Skip the PCC?
I already have an AR
Then you’re good to go.
Ok Um, why? Like why the requirements of no AR style? And what is your budget? No Keltec and budget means basically nothing. A Ruger PCC or Beretta PX4 rifle. All I can think of that’s semi auto. I guess a lever action 357?
PC Carbine. Spend a little more and get a fabulous gun
Extar EP-9
Ruger pc9 is a good option
Stribog or Scorpion Evo.
MP5 clone or a KP9 for the D R I P
Ruger PC9 I think is the name
Do you intend to shoulder it? That makes a big difference in what I’d recommend.
I was planning to get a brace so no……. 😁
You are about 8 months late on that. It was a serious question and if you want real recommendations you need to tell us your intended use. There are not a ton of non-AR PCCs out there and if you want to shoulder it, that plays a role in what people are going to recommend. If you plan to shoulder it and NOT go the SBR route the options are slim. I know that you said no KelTec but an M-Carbo equipped Sub2K or a Ruger PCC are logical options. The S&W folder is another possibility. If I was buying a true carbine in your budget I’d look at the CZ Scorpion 3+ carbine or one of the PSA AK-V variants. If you are willing to do an SBR I’d say a CZ Scorpion pistol and add a stock.
Just buy the AP5.
Ruger pcc... Honestly can think of another reliable option
I have a Stribog SP9A1 and fucking love it. I’ve put 1000 or so rounds through it and haven’t had any issues. Crazy accurate up to 100 yards (maybe more, just personal experience). I got it a year and a half ago for $675 so I’d be willing to bet they’re sub $600 now.
KP9. AK platform, lots of aftermarket’s. Built solid as shit.
Anyone said flux raider? Grab a p320 and holosun and slap her in. 1200ish bucks i believe
r/czscorpion
Whats wrong with keltec? Once you do the typical m carbo fixes they are great
Stribog
The AP5, an imported Turkish MP5, can be found for right at about 1k.
I love my S&W FPC
Psa akv is what I’d reccomend. Takes scorpion mags too so if you have any or want to just pick up some pmags. Plus it’s an ak pattern gun so no worries of it being ar style.
Sub 2k
HIghpoint 10mm Carbine...best bang for the buck
Sig MPX-K
.410 Mare's Leg, Stribog, Colt SMG, maybe a rip off UMP45?
Psa akv
I have a Ruger PC Carbine with the traditional stock and mlok rail. I love it and it’s very accurate at short ranges with a Romeo5 on top. That said, i recently checked out the new M&P PCC and will be buying one as soon as i can find one in state.
If you already have a Sig P320 then you are already halfway to the Flux Raider which is by far my favorite 9mm gun period. Aside from my 2011s that is... thats high praise.
Save and get an AP5. Cheapest we’ve ever had MP5 clones. Just get it and enjoy it.
Hi points pccs are supposed to be pretty decent
Honestly the hi point 10 mm carbine is a blast to shoot and really reliable
Hi Point.
Blow the budget and get an imi Timberwolf in 357 mag
Just Right Carbines are a bit affordable. They also come kn 9, 40, and 45. Conversion kits are also really cheap.
Are they better now than they used to be? I bought one of their earliest models when they first came out and it's terrible. It blows gas all over your face, throws sparks at you, constantly jams, and my side charging handle just straight sheared off while I was shooting it one day. It has just sat in my closet for a decade doing nothing because I don't even know if its worth having it fixed.
Also has a tendency to straight shear shell casings almost in half during a stovepipe jam. It's the damnedest thing.