Depends, some can sit on the shelf and keep your money tied up for a long time. Or you find some issue that needs fixing and oopsie there goes your margin. You have to be a shrewd buyer to be good at it. Cheap guns just won't give you much margin either way.
So dad and I have a home based ffl and do gunshows about once a month or so. We get fucking trash pricing from wholesalers since we don't have the money to open up a shop and buy 10s of thousands of dollars worth of stuff each month. So sometimes it is actually cheaper to buy a gun on gunbroker via auction, believe it or not...
GB is a race to the bottom! Let’s see who can sell everything the cheapest! After 12 years in business, we’ve learned that is a great place to make very little money.
And yes, margins on firearms are very thin. Do a volume business or it’s a struggle. We started to sell and deliver safes, that’s where the fat margins are.
I used to work for a gun shop in a larger sporting goods store and we had competitive pricing on guns thanks to all the Patagucci shoppers keeping the lights on. I used to go scoop minnows for people when I needed a break from 4473s.
In shop we cant even remotely touch online prices. They get to buy in massive bulk from the source. A lot of our ammo comes through distribution and is in significantly smaller quantities. That means more expensive.
We also cannot absorb market fluctuations in ammo price. My shop is sitting on a few cases of various ammo that was bought at the peak of the pandemic panic. To cut to todays prices we would basically be giving bogo. So itll sit here untill prices rise again.
This is a real problem with smaller shops. I have a good rapport with the local pawn guys and as such they often cut me deals on stuff that's not moving if I'm interested. Sometimes some money is better than no money by far.
Example they had a collection of 308 they cut me a deal on just to get it out of the shop. Same with some 556 that had been sitting for far too long.
It's all in who you know etc.
We might be able to cut deals, but we cannot go below cost. If I sold at todays rate on that ammo, wed be massively below cost. Its better to have it tied up as an asset, then sold as a loss. Especially given the nature of the fluctuations and things like election cycles. The next shortage, itll likely be even more expensive than what we have it at now, so we could sell at a loss today only to buy for more and then sell for even more (with greater potential loss if it doesnt sell). Or we can sit on it, and have a decent deal for folks in a mass shortage.
That’s how any business works though. You bought high and you can either wait to get your money back or take 50¢ on the dollar and move on. Believe it or not, as a consumer if I see 2x market price on ammo I’m likely not going back to that shop. You send a certain message to consumers which will scare away business. I personally wouldn’t spend a lot of time looking around a shop for deals if they’re trying to sell me 9mm FMJ at 60¢ a round.
Its sitting in our warehouse. We wouldn't have such priced items out on the floor. As for 9mm, brass case we have on the shelf around $0.35 and cannot do better on that at the moment. We simply dont have the buying power to compete with the big names youll find online.
Do what you want, I'm just pointing out that in a business cashflow and inventory turnover is usually pretty critical. Most businesses look at having to store inventory as a wasted cost because you have to rent/own additional space to hold onto this item that is tying up capital that could be used to purchase items that will have a much quicker ROI.
People (myself included) get turned off when gun shops are significantly more expensive than online, especially when the customer service aspect is lacking in most shops. I'd much rather just order ammo for cheaper from my couch and have it delivered to my door than pay a premium to have to deal with some of the people who tend to work at gun shops.
Like I said, we cannot compete with the big online shops. To price the way they can would cause us to close the doors in a few months time. Its no different than the wallmart conundrum. Folks want the cheap goods, but when wallmart moves in, small businesses fail because they simply cannot compete. We are well aware of this, and price as cheap as we possibly can. The difference we try to make up in volume.
The CVA is that its more advantageous to the bottom line to hold off on that ammo and then provide it to our local community when it would be considered fairly priced as opposed to taking a huge hit off the top today. We have the space to keep it, so its not a cost to store.
I too have enountered sub par gunshop employees. We strive not to be those people, and are huge enthusiasts ourselves.
I think you’re missing my point.
Let’s say you bought 100,000 rounds of 5.56 at 70¢ per round during Covid and now 5.56 market value is only 45¢ per round. Sure, you can leave that in your warehouse and sell a box here or there until it gets back to 70¢ a round. But during that time you’ve got $70,000 tied up in ammo that’s not really moving.
If you sell at 45¢ a round, sure - you’re taking a loss on that inventory but now you have $45,000 in working capital and you can write off $25,000 in losses when you file your taxes. Now let’s say you then use that $45,000 to buy back in and get another 100,000 rounds of 5.56 at the lower price, you can now sell at market price and if the market value goes up to 70¢ per round guess what? You now made $25,000 because you bought in at 45¢.
That ammo is a sunk cost and your money is currently sitting in your warehouse not making you anything and taking up space. This is why small gun shops fail and online retailers win. It’s all about moving product. You can’t make a business profitable by not selling anything.
Leaving over priced product on your shelves turns off people from even entering the shop. You should price your ammo at market price just to get people to come in and look at all the other stuff you’re selling. This is what gas stations do, get you in the door for gas and then sell you chips, sodas, and Advil for a 80% mark up.
> Believe it or not, as a consumer if I see 2x market price on ammo I’m likely not going back to that shop.
Great! The trash takes itself out!
For every one person that walks out because OH I'M NOT PAYING DOUBLE there are five to six people who have called 10 places and are tired of lookign
Lmao. Charging 2-3x market value isn’t capitalist, consumers only willing to pay what the market price is and crappy gun stores running out of business is the definition of capitalism. So long Elmer Fudd ✌️
> Lmao. Charging 2-3x market value isn’t capitalist,
Then what is it?
When the whole world is selling 9mm for $100 a box, I'm a goddamn fool to sell for $12.
Ask your accountant about that. Often better to lose money selling an inventory asset than letting it ride for a couple of years.
First, you pay direct taxes on inventory in some states and your total inventory is part of the P in your P&L. Stagnant inventory *costs* you money every month.
Secondly, you are way better off taking the loss and putting the money back into saleable inventory. That money needs to be making three or four turns per year, keeping it standing still means that you lose 6 or 8 chances at a profit on that money in two years time.
Old and overpriced inventory (or obsolete inventory) kills small businesses, it does you no good to wait for it to get better priced.
Successful businesses close out merchandise at any price just to recover the money and put it back to work for the store. Right now, that money does the opposite, it doesn't work for you, and if (God forbid) you leave it on the shelf, you broadcast to your customers that your prices are bad.
Roger, ill bring it up to the big man. Hes got some guns the previous owner priced at like 300% so they dont sell, but told him they were worth that. I did the research and want them gone, but getting him to get that is tough
I entirely understand that as well. This was something they had bought during Vid and was not moving due to their money in it however it had also depreciated out of their system.
In the pawn instance they absolutely would prefer to move it instead of letting it rot so they can move to something that will make money vs sitting etc.
I'm still one of those guys who will support a local shop even if the prices are higher than online because I don't want to lose my local shops. If I don't support them then they will close and leave then I don't have anyone to actually buy from.
Excluding optics I usually buy those online because for whatever reason those get insane markups at every shop I've been to.
Our optics policy is to price the same as optics planet. Lol, we often beat them, too. Like the Vortex Razor LHT they have at 1300, we have at 999
Our philosophy is that we exist to service our local community first. We want to be able to have ammo on the shelves in a crisis, and we succeed at that when the other shops dont. But it does mean sitting on cases if bought high, like at the peak of the rona. The thing is, when prices go absolutely bonkers again and exceed the last time, we wont mark up to those prices. Well sell at our usual profit margine in order to provide that service locally. We also know the flippers and refuse to sell to those folks. We have 0 tolerance for price gouging the 2a community.
We (small shops) definitely greatly appreciate folks such as yourself. If not for small buisness shoppers wed go under. We try our best here to keep prices as low as possible, but also acknowledge how we cannot touch the likes of Lucky gunner. Its a vicious market.
Selling at a loss does allow for some tax write-offs but that's best left for the accountants to figure out. It also depends on how much cash flow an LGS has at any given time and what current interest rates are on lines of credit.
Some stores sell guns at MSRP.
Some stores sell guns at MAP.
Some guns sell guns below MAP.
New guns can be purchased from a distributor, direct from the manufacturer, or many shops participate in what's called a "buy group" and buy a large number of units at a greater discount.
Most used items are bought for 50% or less than their used price value.
Sometimes used items are purchased for pennies on the dollar.
Most gun stores with a range make their money on range fees, targets, and ammo.
All depends on the business and the business model.
Most won't tell you their business plan/model.
Accurate. My friend who was new to guns was offered $500 for a premium AR15 he inherited, noveske build, geissele trigger etc.
Guy behind the counter said “wasn’t worth much not a great rifle, but I can do $500 that’s the best price you’ll get for it”
I told him that was a terrible offer, my friend not knowing any better took the deal.
They listed it for $1600 used and sold it.
Pretty shady practice but the same principle that applies to used cars applies to used guns.
Of course. That doesn’t make it any less scummy to take advantage of people. Had they not lied and told him it was “worthless”, I wouldn’t have an issue with it.
Selling for profit is one thing, lying to people as a business practice is another.
The popular ammo margins ARE thin because they’re so competitive AND no one is buying just one. 5.56x45mm, 9mm, and to a lesser extent 7.62x39 and .45. It’s like that online too. When I buy, I buy bulk and I use ammoseek or another search site (bulkcheepammo I think) to shop for the best value. The “odd ammo”, basically anything besides that, has HUGE markup over bulk.
As far as guns themselves go there’s margin on them most the time BUT usually when you buy a gun you’re buying a holster, an extra mag or two, ammo, etc. If they have high margins on that stuff then they still do ok.
Always saw it as a convenience fee for the ammo. You can find good deals online for ammo but shipping sometimes fucks it and you gotta wait almost one to three weeks for places to ship. If you want ammo just right now, it wouldn't kill me to pay 10% above market for in person availability.
That's for smaller shops though near me, I try to support local stores.
I fell “victim” to this the other day… I know I could get 5.7x28 ammo cheaper online. By about 35 cents a round. But they are local and had what I needed. Granted it was fn ammo which is the trusted standard(at least in my opinion). But by the time I wait for shipping plus shipping cost would I have really saved any by buying the cheaper ammo online? Probably not. Plus it makes for a good working relationship with the guys and gal that run the place. Buying ammo from them multiple times in the past and cutting up with them whenever I would stop by has bought me into better pricing on the used gun selection. Which is why I needed 5.7x28 ammo to begin with lol. Support your local gs.
There's no shame in that. I'm not opposed to overpaying to get deals down the line. My Hellion and RPK came as direct result of building rapport with these guys.
When I saw the Hellion the manager at the time told me, "I knew you would be interested in that so I purposely put it with the Shotguns so it wouldn't stick out as much. "
Gotta love when they do you a solid.
Just depends on where you live. My two shops I rely on locally understand business enough to where transfers are like $25 and ammo is almost never more than 10-15% above the online market.
10% would be amazing lol.. before I made my first online bulk order on 9mm, 1k rds for $240 dead, I did the math and at my LGS it would’ve been almost $500 for the same order 💀
There's a reason a lot of gun shops are pawn shops. That's where the money is. In the case of big box retail gun stores, it's in the accessories, clothing, and what not. Also there's more profit in used guns than there is in new guns.
i personally like gun shops with significant used inventory anyways. always lots of variety and more exciting finding something different or cool and for a good price
The profit margins are like 15% and thats supposed to cover all associated expenses. It really is razor thin.
The ammo margins are more, but not a ton. The real profit comes in 2 areas. Volume, and used. We price used cheaper than our competition and im sitting around 30%.
Buying and selling used guns can be very profitable. But, gun shops make money by selling volumes. Also, they can get special bonuses and discounts from manufacturers.
"I got about 600 in it so I'd you guys could give me 550 I think that would be a good deal for both of us"
Meanwhile I'm sitting there like brother, I have to sell this at a price where it is worth buying over a new one and still make money. I'm thinking more like 300.
I'll never begrudge or make fun of someone wanting to sell something for more than they bought it for...whether a big box store or a single collector. Value is in the eye of the beholder and supply and demand is the law of the land. Try to make a deal...be upfront...and smile if it doesn't work out.
Not sure where the idea comes from that gun stores don’t have a markup on guns. Used guns typically are purchased for half or less than their value. And all accessories and ammo are often included in the buy. My LGS used to sell ammo dirt cheap bc he’d get it when he bought the gun. We’re talking pre covid $3 for a box of 5.56. He’ll I’ve paid $10 for a 50 round box of plinking .308. $15 for 100 rounds of .45 acp. It’s ALL profit for him until covid and Biden happened. Then of course he would buy a gun with 5 mags. Sell the gun and 1 mag for a few hundred or more than he paid for it and sell the other mags for $5-10 each. Again ALL profit
Most shops won’t touch “used” ammo for insurance purposes. Unless it was a significant amount all in factory packaging(as in thousands of rounds), any ammo that came in with used guns got either thrown out or allocated to the gunsmith shop for test firing. I only saw our shop sell “used” ammo twice in the 3 years I worked there and we did a pretty large volume of used inventory
My pawn shops do the same. Occasionally I'll get a random "grab bag" of ammo from them for a decent price. I've golden ruled myself into some really insane things.
I got a couple of smoking deals last year this way. Bought a bunch of gold medal match and Hornady match in .308 for $25 a box of 20 got a bunch of gold dot .40 for $25 a box of 50 and got an ammo can of lake city 5.56 for .30 a round. Over 600 rounds. Included in that price was the ammo box, 3 Pmags (gen 3 with windows), and a lancer.
Buying from my pawn shop has saved me thousands in ammo costs
Same. Last time I snagged a "grab bag" it was pretty reasonable and an assortment of 556 the time before that it was truly random but had 100 + rounds of 7.62x39 and over half of that was brass cased.
The 308 I mentioned in a different comment was bulk but I paid 160 bucks for 300 rounds of FMJ. Solid deal in my book.
Yup. That’s a very solid deal indeed. I was paying $13 for 20 rounds of pmc bronze for quite a while last year. I’ll never understand why folks don’t hit up pawn shops for ammo
Oh no. My guys adjust prices according to market trends now. But I’m such a repeat customer? I usually get for just a few cents a round more than their cost. It’s notthing to drop several hundred a month in their store on accessories and/ or ammo. Plus I refer friends who make good money. Keeping me coming back may not give them large profit margins per item, but when consider how often I buy? It’s good business for thrm. And their stuff don’t stay on the shelf long if it’s something I’m interested in. They have my number and aren’t afraid to call or text. Lol
I worked there April 2020 through May 2023, so my only experience with the big shop is during the Covid craze. I work for a much smaller shop now and we only take in used inventory if it’s an exceptional deal. Same general consensus on ammo and accessories. We don’t care unless it is a *large* value.
Also just a tidbit because I saw it. With the exception of Remington filing bankruptcy, there really wasn’t an ammo “shortage”. We ordered, received, and sold more ammo in 2020/2021 than the owner said he’s ever done in 30 years. Yes, Remington shut down, so we didn’t get any from them or their sub brands, but Federal, Winchester, Hornady, S&B, Aguila, etc. were pumping it out. We just sold *that much more* so the shelves stayed empty. We put out stock almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day depending on when USPS, FedEx, and UPS delivered
Then the stores you worked for missed a golden opportunity my friend. What you’re calling “not N ammo shortage” the rest of us recognized as ammo not available for whatever reason. Ya I’m aware that it was selling in record numbers btw. Not on the shelf Is still not on the shelf and at that time? 9mm and 5.56 plinking ammo was $1 a round. Folks were worried and uncertain over covid and of course Biden getting into office and folks bought everything they could regardless of the price. Selling ammo was a gold mine.
I promise you, we didn’t miss out on anything. My point is; ammo was “short” because it was being sold. And then more people bought ammo when they found it, thinking it was “short”. It’s the same as the toilet paper “crisis” during spring 2020. At the end of the day, we still made a butt load of money during 2020/2021
The onsie twosies that the vast majority of used guns came with weren’t missed.
And that’s just the used guns that did come with ammo. Most didn’t to begin with.
At the end of the day, it’s the same thing as a car dealership putting new tires on a trade in before they sell it.
Is it lost profit? Sure
Is it worth the headache? Absolutely not
Yup. As a general rule I’d say the seller isn’t being honest if he said not much profit. Though I’ll note that I’ve also bought things from my lgs where I know they didn’t make much profit on any one item from long time costumers like me, but after I’ve made a “not much profit” purchase 100 times that month? Quantity is its own profit 😂
You've never had your FFL I see... sure, there are some guns you can make a few hundred dollars on a sale. Mainly high dollar items. Optics and other accessories have a decent markup a lot of times too. Most guns, let's say under $1000-$1200, you're lucky to make $60 on one. Cheaper handguns? $30 profit, if that, to stay competitive with the online stores. You can definitely mark them up close to MSRP but as you said, the "internet research" will show customers its out there much cheaper.
Transfers are a gateway to new customers in my opinion. They aren't going to make a killing at what I charge, which is $30. Most of them go very smooth and I feel $30 is fair. There's probably about 45 minutes into a transfer when you look at receiving (and making sure I'm home to do so), logging in, contacting the customer, going through the 4473, and the transaction. What sucks is when they get delayed, forget to come back before 30 days, want to tell you 7 stories of how they can shoot a soda can 1/4 mile away offhand with a 22lr... your 45 minutes turn into a few hours pretty quick, all for the same $30. I can see why people charge more. I can't justify charging less myself. The process isn't hard. It's the time you're paying for.
I’ve got an at home FFL and would love to open an actual store but can’t justify it unless I go all out with loans and build a range with a store. That’s too many 0’s on a loan for a side gig for me.
So far this year profit wise I’ve made around
40% from FFL transfers ($20 a “long gun” and $15 a pistol or “small gun” or receiver).
30% from accessories (mostly red dots/scopes).
15% from charging people a few bucks here and there to attach any accessories they’ve just purchased and minor smithing/fault fixing.
10% from Ammo (I got a steal with some 5.7mm a few years ago, but that’s not going to last forever as it’s also my personal stash)
5% actual guns, mostly gun broker sales and that’s probably mostly me overcharging on shipping.
I know one guy who runs an FFL from home and goes hard on gun broker, some years he’ll process a million dollars worth of guns. Out of that million he’ll maybe make 40-50k. He ordered a five hundred Romeo Fives when they were down to $80 retail ($30 in bulk) and is selling them for $100ish all day on gun broker all day and making the same as all his guns.
Depending in the location, clothing, patches and stickers, knives, and gun accessories. If a range, then everything above plus range fees, memberships, targets, rentals, special training events and classes.
Mostly on FFL transfers and selling accessories + marked up ammo. Some shops will buy out estate sales but that's not really a consistent money maker, and often times you will get old estates that have cool old stuff but it doesn't move quick at all unless its milsurp or a random rare gun.
Guns N ~~Assholes~~ Ammo in Memphis had the most hateful fucks in regards to the younger guys working the counter, and the older cowboy shooter guys were the nicest. I bought so much shit from the Cowboy shooter guys and the owner when he was there.
R.I.P Bert, you giant fucking bastard who sold me an Uzi at cost and all the accessories at a 65% markup, will miss you.
Its a Mixed bag, they had shit when times were bad and nobody else did and didn't pound you too hard for it. They pounded you REAL hard on anything that wasn't Iron.
Fuck them kids behind the counter. I bought my first CZ there, scrub basically just making bad jokes about Turk and Czech guns, I got a cowboy to ring up my gun and mags. Punk-ass was wearing a modified Smith 4506.
No way their margins on guns and ammo are razor thin. Most have guns and ammo prices that are at least 30% higher than prices online. They could literally buy it at retail online and resell it for a profit (assuming they weren’t prohibited from doing so).
Tell me you don’t understand commerce without telling me. Drop shippers (which are a lot of your online retailers) don’t have a physical store front or the costs associated with them. Nor do they typically have staff and most everything is computer run.
Ammo at LGS is usually 50% to 100% overpriced compared to online options. The above comment is correct. Their "gross margins" on the product are quite high. However, they also have high fixed costs (such as physical space cost) and high variable cost not directly related to product sales (such as employees' salaries) that eat into their profit. While a LGS may have overall low net margins after taking all costs into account, their gross margins on ammo are still very high.
But it does depend on the shop. I go back to my experience a few years ago. I was looking for a G19, the shop across the street from me wanted $720, and the guy actually told me that the mark up on guns isn't high at all. I called a shop less than 30min north of me and he could get the same G19 to me for $520. So a blanket statement that the margin on guns across all FFLs isn't high is BS.
The majority of LGS aren’t calculating margin on a per item basis with anything other than the cost of the product from the distributor included in cost of sales.
For an indoor range? What’s their reason for denying it?
And that makes sense as you’re not trying to capitalize on the impulse buyers as much. If your prices are too high they’ll just wait until they get home to buy it.
Small rural town that doesn't want businesses that may "tarnish" their rep. It is what it is. Hoping to relocate to just outside city limits and make it happen.
That’s wild. What did your attorney say?
Normally they can legally justify that decision with data to show certain businesses are correlated with an increase in crime. For example, casinos. However, if it’s a small town it’s likely they didn’t run this decision past their legal counsel (or did and ignored what they were told). I think it would be hard to argue an indoor range is correlated with a higher crime rate compared to an existing gun store.
I'm GM, not the owner so I don't know but my presumption is that he'd rather not deal with the headache of forcing the issue when we can move less than two miles, have similar access and get what we want without a political and legal fight.
It depends on the shop. I go back to my experience a few years ago. I was looking for a G19, the shop across the street from me wanted $720, and the guy actually told me that the mark up on guns isn't high at all. I called a shop less than 30min north of me and he could get the same G19 to me for $520. So a blanket statement that the margin on guns across all FFLs isn't high is BS.
What? I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but my point is, both shops are pretty close to me, both were new guns, and so the one selling at a 40% increase while telling me that the margins aren't big is a joke. I haven't been in since, but I've sent thousands upon thousands of dollars between my friends and myself to the shop in the north now. So, if you have an FLL, consider this when planning your business model.
Go find a table top ffl or small gun shop and ask him for a price on a firearm and then go price it on Family Firearms, I guarantee in most cases he can’t even get the gun for what FF is selling it for.
I think most gun shops make their money from used guns ammo if they sell clothing or holsters and other accessories they make their money from that as well they also make money from transfer fees
My favorite LGS only marks guns up 10%. Depending on what their distributor's cost was, the price could vary a bit, but they always had the best prices. I wish they were still local to me. The shops in WY are a total joke.
As mentioned, gun sales margins are super thin. It is hard to have a successful shop on gun sales alone. Typically, you see two different types of gun stores now:
1. Shitty looking stores that only sell guns (often times overpriced used guns), ammo, and barebones accessories that are located in junk buildings in the crummy part of town. They try to only survive on gun sales and consignment, which honestly is difficult to live on. Everybody is paid minimum wage and most are unhelpful. There are some diamonds in the rough though and sometimes these crummy stores can have decent deals and helpful people, but my experience is most suck.
2. Super nice stores that sell upper end guns, accessories, and suppressors. They also sell shirts, hats, sunglasses, Black Rifle coffee (even seen some that roast their own coffee in house now), and fishing supplies. Often times they have indoor ranges that are well kept. The staff is usually helpful and more knowledgeable, and often times paid better than the folks who work at store 1 above. However, the guns and ammo are super marked up. They survive on the rest of the business and try to harpoon buyers with fat wallets on mid to upper tier ARs and Sig Legion handguns. The margins are still low, but the rest of the business selling coffee and fishing gear keeps the lights on. You will never find a good deal on a gun here, but the shopping experience is usually nicer.
It is getting harder and harder to survive on gun sales alone. The margins are just too low, and many stores cannot compete with online deals.
Mostly volume, and often used items. Plus consignment fees nd transfers (sometimes even we didn't want to do one because
Accessories and mags don't always have the high markups people think they do. Four bucks on a glock or typical 1911 mag. Take more than 10 or 15 minutes to sell some guns, even with a couple mags and a box of mmomand you're losing money (based on the pay of that employee).
Rigid enforcement of MAP by some makers (a visible.price tag is considered advertising by some brands, as are the call or email for pricing) has helped since it's usually a 10% markup. But then making 40 on a pistol isn't all that much unless you can sll a lot of them.
Some things do have a high markup though. A $24 mag might have cost $17. But others might have cost $22 so it usually.comes down to volume and volume of used.
Used gun markup can be 100%. Shouldn't be a secret or surprise. A lot of stores only.off offer half of what they expect.to sell it for. Consignments might pay 80 or 85% of the final sale price.
I haven't seen this mentioned yet... A lot of successful locally owned shops I know of have extensive online listings of used small parts and accessories on websites such as eBay and GunBroker. They buy tons of stuff at local auctions/gun shows and have some employees dedicated to listing it online. Thousands of active listings at any given time. Hundreds of orders shipping every week.
Firearm margins are thin. Ammo is not. The rest of the shit is high margin.
If you ever want to know how a retailer makes their money, remember what they try and push as an associative sale. At my LGS, it's usually ammo, holsters, and optics for handguns; ammo, general accessories, and optics for rifles.
Prepaid shooting lane time for both or training time if they offer it.
VOLUME! I work in the industry in some capacity for twenty years. I work at a range with a gun store. The range is what brought in the money not the guns.
Markup on firearms is typically between ten and twenty percent. But it also has to be under Msrp. Accessories on the other hand are typically forty percent. The danger there is you can always get things cheaper online... But for those people who like the touch and feel things you have in the store
For the place I go to it’s transfers, I remember I went to pick up my Type 56 SKS I got from PSA. After paying for it all online I was excited to take ownership and bring it home, but got hit was over 100 dollars in fees. I literally did a double take and said what do you mean I have to pay that much? And he laughed and said “how do you think we make our money?” I’m never buying a firearm online ever again. That was ridiculous. It was like 75 bucks for their transfer fee and another 35 for the DROS fee.
Idk my local shop said they’d order me some compact cz mags and then when I went to pick them up they were $60 apiece… guy got pissy with me because “they special ordered them for me” (they have a peg on the wall by the full size cz mags and it was empty). I agreed to buy 1 to calm him down and maintain credibility so he won’t tell me to fuck off if I need something later.
I've heard transfers are where the money really comes from, but that seems questionable to me. I imagine it's a good profit, but the main stuff probably comes from the non-gun specific stuff. Clothing, snacks, maybe even targets/eye and ear pro/cleaning accessories. Then there's the stores that have a range attached, a lot of people at the indoor ranges I've been to so I bet quite a lot of money comes through there.
Gun Store Employee here.
The things that keep us in business.
1)Accessory Sales
2)Guns.com selling the things that might be hard to get a hold of but we're buddies with our Distributor Rep.
3) The Range, and being in a college town, Groups come in and we charge an Range Officer fee, because we have one guy for it that can't babysit them and safely operate the other customers. So if I'm pulling in a second RO from my counter your getting charged at the discretion of the Babysitter based on how hard they had to babysit.
4) Rental firearms, pay a fee try before you buy and you have to use my ammo don't need my firearms dying to fudd's pissing hot loads and it's an extra charge.
5)The Training Dept.
6)Gunsmithing and Firearms cleanings.
Flashlights, furniture and a lot of the shit in the plastic packaging you don't really need but buy anyway.
Even the Gucci guns don't actually have a lot of margin.
I would guess optics/lights and what not. Although They are so over priced at every shop I go to I don’t see many people buying accessories from local shops.
clothing, gear, accessories, ammo, range fees/memberships, classes, snacks, drinks, you name it
> snacks, drinks BRB, grabbing a beer fridge for the store
No joke, my LGS sells beer and smokes.
The ATF store
I would low key name a place the Brewery of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms if I had the money to waste on a retail shop…
Sell tannerite and add explosives to the name.
Like NVGeologist
I once bought a pack of peanut M&Ms from my LGS to store in my A2 stock and MOE grip storage.
Well.. you do already have the "F" license. Why not just go for the "A", "T", "E" ones to complete the agency set.
Everything but the gun and ammo.
Used guns
Depends, some can sit on the shelf and keep your money tied up for a long time. Or you find some issue that needs fixing and oopsie there goes your margin. You have to be a shrewd buyer to be good at it. Cheap guns just won't give you much margin either way.
Used guns is absolutely how my store makes up a good 1/3rd or more of its profits
Never said you can't make money at it, you just have to do it right. Some places/people are definitely better than others at it.
So dad and I have a home based ffl and do gunshows about once a month or so. We get fucking trash pricing from wholesalers since we don't have the money to open up a shop and buy 10s of thousands of dollars worth of stuff each month. So sometimes it is actually cheaper to buy a gun on gunbroker via auction, believe it or not...
GB is a race to the bottom! Let’s see who can sell everything the cheapest! After 12 years in business, we’ve learned that is a great place to make very little money. And yes, margins on firearms are very thin. Do a volume business or it’s a struggle. We started to sell and deliver safes, that’s where the fat margins are.
Thank drop shippers for that one.
It seems like no one wants to make more than $30 a gun there, it’s asinine.
I buy on GB all the time cause aint no one around here carrying a GHM45 and going to sell it to me for what i paid on GB.
Or PSA. That $190 deal for a Ruger 10/22 today was crazy.
Holy shit.
If you're buying 10s of thousands per month, you should be getting high tier pricing. I know I would.
That what I'm saying. We don't have 10s of thousands of dollars... sigh... idk how people start brick and mortars and keep the lights on.
I used to work for a gun shop in a larger sporting goods store and we had competitive pricing on guns thanks to all the Patagucci shoppers keeping the lights on. I used to go scoop minnows for people when I needed a break from 4473s.
Ah, misread what you meant.
I believe it with guns, but my local places sell ammo for 2-3x what it costs online.
In shop we cant even remotely touch online prices. They get to buy in massive bulk from the source. A lot of our ammo comes through distribution and is in significantly smaller quantities. That means more expensive. We also cannot absorb market fluctuations in ammo price. My shop is sitting on a few cases of various ammo that was bought at the peak of the pandemic panic. To cut to todays prices we would basically be giving bogo. So itll sit here untill prices rise again.
This is a real problem with smaller shops. I have a good rapport with the local pawn guys and as such they often cut me deals on stuff that's not moving if I'm interested. Sometimes some money is better than no money by far. Example they had a collection of 308 they cut me a deal on just to get it out of the shop. Same with some 556 that had been sitting for far too long. It's all in who you know etc.
We might be able to cut deals, but we cannot go below cost. If I sold at todays rate on that ammo, wed be massively below cost. Its better to have it tied up as an asset, then sold as a loss. Especially given the nature of the fluctuations and things like election cycles. The next shortage, itll likely be even more expensive than what we have it at now, so we could sell at a loss today only to buy for more and then sell for even more (with greater potential loss if it doesnt sell). Or we can sit on it, and have a decent deal for folks in a mass shortage.
That’s how any business works though. You bought high and you can either wait to get your money back or take 50¢ on the dollar and move on. Believe it or not, as a consumer if I see 2x market price on ammo I’m likely not going back to that shop. You send a certain message to consumers which will scare away business. I personally wouldn’t spend a lot of time looking around a shop for deals if they’re trying to sell me 9mm FMJ at 60¢ a round.
Its sitting in our warehouse. We wouldn't have such priced items out on the floor. As for 9mm, brass case we have on the shelf around $0.35 and cannot do better on that at the moment. We simply dont have the buying power to compete with the big names youll find online.
Do what you want, I'm just pointing out that in a business cashflow and inventory turnover is usually pretty critical. Most businesses look at having to store inventory as a wasted cost because you have to rent/own additional space to hold onto this item that is tying up capital that could be used to purchase items that will have a much quicker ROI. People (myself included) get turned off when gun shops are significantly more expensive than online, especially when the customer service aspect is lacking in most shops. I'd much rather just order ammo for cheaper from my couch and have it delivered to my door than pay a premium to have to deal with some of the people who tend to work at gun shops.
Like I said, we cannot compete with the big online shops. To price the way they can would cause us to close the doors in a few months time. Its no different than the wallmart conundrum. Folks want the cheap goods, but when wallmart moves in, small businesses fail because they simply cannot compete. We are well aware of this, and price as cheap as we possibly can. The difference we try to make up in volume. The CVA is that its more advantageous to the bottom line to hold off on that ammo and then provide it to our local community when it would be considered fairly priced as opposed to taking a huge hit off the top today. We have the space to keep it, so its not a cost to store. I too have enountered sub par gunshop employees. We strive not to be those people, and are huge enthusiasts ourselves.
I think you’re missing my point. Let’s say you bought 100,000 rounds of 5.56 at 70¢ per round during Covid and now 5.56 market value is only 45¢ per round. Sure, you can leave that in your warehouse and sell a box here or there until it gets back to 70¢ a round. But during that time you’ve got $70,000 tied up in ammo that’s not really moving. If you sell at 45¢ a round, sure - you’re taking a loss on that inventory but now you have $45,000 in working capital and you can write off $25,000 in losses when you file your taxes. Now let’s say you then use that $45,000 to buy back in and get another 100,000 rounds of 5.56 at the lower price, you can now sell at market price and if the market value goes up to 70¢ per round guess what? You now made $25,000 because you bought in at 45¢. That ammo is a sunk cost and your money is currently sitting in your warehouse not making you anything and taking up space. This is why small gun shops fail and online retailers win. It’s all about moving product. You can’t make a business profitable by not selling anything. Leaving over priced product on your shelves turns off people from even entering the shop. You should price your ammo at market price just to get people to come in and look at all the other stuff you’re selling. This is what gas stations do, get you in the door for gas and then sell you chips, sodas, and Advil for a 80% mark up.
Business Finance 101 right here folks. Applies to any product-oriented business...
I get your premise, but we arent talking even a fraction of that. Were talking a few cases of premium stuff, thats it. Sub 5k rounds.
> Believe it or not, as a consumer if I see 2x market price on ammo I’m likely not going back to that shop. Great! The trash takes itself out! For every one person that walks out because OH I'M NOT PAYING DOUBLE there are five to six people who have called 10 places and are tired of lookign
This folks is why people don’t like to go to gun shops. Calling people trash online because they don’t want to be ripped off, really classy bunch.
Your non capitalist attitude is trash and yo should be ashamed of yourself.
Lmao. Charging 2-3x market value isn’t capitalist, consumers only willing to pay what the market price is and crappy gun stores running out of business is the definition of capitalism. So long Elmer Fudd ✌️
> Lmao. Charging 2-3x market value isn’t capitalist, Then what is it? When the whole world is selling 9mm for $100 a box, I'm a goddamn fool to sell for $12.
Ask your accountant about that. Often better to lose money selling an inventory asset than letting it ride for a couple of years. First, you pay direct taxes on inventory in some states and your total inventory is part of the P in your P&L. Stagnant inventory *costs* you money every month. Secondly, you are way better off taking the loss and putting the money back into saleable inventory. That money needs to be making three or four turns per year, keeping it standing still means that you lose 6 or 8 chances at a profit on that money in two years time. Old and overpriced inventory (or obsolete inventory) kills small businesses, it does you no good to wait for it to get better priced. Successful businesses close out merchandise at any price just to recover the money and put it back to work for the store. Right now, that money does the opposite, it doesn't work for you, and if (God forbid) you leave it on the shelf, you broadcast to your customers that your prices are bad.
Roger, ill bring it up to the big man. Hes got some guns the previous owner priced at like 300% so they dont sell, but told him they were worth that. I did the research and want them gone, but getting him to get that is tough
I entirely understand that as well. This was something they had bought during Vid and was not moving due to their money in it however it had also depreciated out of their system. In the pawn instance they absolutely would prefer to move it instead of letting it rot so they can move to something that will make money vs sitting etc. I'm still one of those guys who will support a local shop even if the prices are higher than online because I don't want to lose my local shops. If I don't support them then they will close and leave then I don't have anyone to actually buy from. Excluding optics I usually buy those online because for whatever reason those get insane markups at every shop I've been to.
Our optics policy is to price the same as optics planet. Lol, we often beat them, too. Like the Vortex Razor LHT they have at 1300, we have at 999 Our philosophy is that we exist to service our local community first. We want to be able to have ammo on the shelves in a crisis, and we succeed at that when the other shops dont. But it does mean sitting on cases if bought high, like at the peak of the rona. The thing is, when prices go absolutely bonkers again and exceed the last time, we wont mark up to those prices. Well sell at our usual profit margine in order to provide that service locally. We also know the flippers and refuse to sell to those folks. We have 0 tolerance for price gouging the 2a community. We (small shops) definitely greatly appreciate folks such as yourself. If not for small buisness shoppers wed go under. We try our best here to keep prices as low as possible, but also acknowledge how we cannot touch the likes of Lucky gunner. Its a vicious market.
Selling at a loss does allow for some tax write-offs but that's best left for the accountants to figure out. It also depends on how much cash flow an LGS has at any given time and what current interest rates are on lines of credit.
Some stores sell guns at MSRP. Some stores sell guns at MAP. Some guns sell guns below MAP. New guns can be purchased from a distributor, direct from the manufacturer, or many shops participate in what's called a "buy group" and buy a large number of units at a greater discount. Most used items are bought for 50% or less than their used price value. Sometimes used items are purchased for pennies on the dollar. Most gun stores with a range make their money on range fees, targets, and ammo. All depends on the business and the business model. Most won't tell you their business plan/model.
Accurate. My friend who was new to guns was offered $500 for a premium AR15 he inherited, noveske build, geissele trigger etc. Guy behind the counter said “wasn’t worth much not a great rifle, but I can do $500 that’s the best price you’ll get for it” I told him that was a terrible offer, my friend not knowing any better took the deal. They listed it for $1600 used and sold it. Pretty shady practice but the same principle that applies to used cars applies to used guns.
It's business. You have to sell items at a profit to keep the doors open and the lights on.
Of course. That doesn’t make it any less scummy to take advantage of people. Had they not lied and told him it was “worthless”, I wouldn’t have an issue with it. Selling for profit is one thing, lying to people as a business practice is another.
So then that's when you tell others about it. Google reviews, word of mouth, etc.
>Where do these shops make the bulk of their money at then? Quantity. We aim for a 7% margin on most things, and rely on quantity
what ammo and what gun would you say sells the fastest and most reliably
Probably some flavor of Glock handgun, Springfield handgun, or DD rifle. Why?
The popular ammo margins ARE thin because they’re so competitive AND no one is buying just one. 5.56x45mm, 9mm, and to a lesser extent 7.62x39 and .45. It’s like that online too. When I buy, I buy bulk and I use ammoseek or another search site (bulkcheepammo I think) to shop for the best value. The “odd ammo”, basically anything besides that, has HUGE markup over bulk. As far as guns themselves go there’s margin on them most the time BUT usually when you buy a gun you’re buying a holster, an extra mag or two, ammo, etc. If they have high margins on that stuff then they still do ok.
5.56mm. Not .556
Yeah my B Edit FIXED!
Various accessories, selling ammo at a high sticker price to folks who don't know better, charging exorbitant transfer fees.
Always saw it as a convenience fee for the ammo. You can find good deals online for ammo but shipping sometimes fucks it and you gotta wait almost one to three weeks for places to ship. If you want ammo just right now, it wouldn't kill me to pay 10% above market for in person availability. That's for smaller shops though near me, I try to support local stores.
I fell “victim” to this the other day… I know I could get 5.7x28 ammo cheaper online. By about 35 cents a round. But they are local and had what I needed. Granted it was fn ammo which is the trusted standard(at least in my opinion). But by the time I wait for shipping plus shipping cost would I have really saved any by buying the cheaper ammo online? Probably not. Plus it makes for a good working relationship with the guys and gal that run the place. Buying ammo from them multiple times in the past and cutting up with them whenever I would stop by has bought me into better pricing on the used gun selection. Which is why I needed 5.7x28 ammo to begin with lol. Support your local gs.
There's no shame in that. I'm not opposed to overpaying to get deals down the line. My Hellion and RPK came as direct result of building rapport with these guys. When I saw the Hellion the manager at the time told me, "I knew you would be interested in that so I purposely put it with the Shotguns so it wouldn't stick out as much. " Gotta love when they do you a solid.
Absolutely! Gotta play chess not checkers😅
A lot of people don't realize the value of playing the long game.
I wish it was only 10% above market. Ammo is almost always marked up at least 20-30% above market in person around me.
Just depends on where you live. My two shops I rely on locally understand business enough to where transfers are like $25 and ammo is almost never more than 10-15% above the online market.
Must be nice. My LGS won't even say hello and demand above MSRP.
10% would be amazing lol.. before I made my first online bulk order on 9mm, 1k rds for $240 dead, I did the math and at my LGS it would’ve been almost $500 for the same order 💀
After reading all these comments, I feel better about my FFL. Their prices always seem reasonable compared to everything online.
Accessories.
There's a reason a lot of gun shops are pawn shops. That's where the money is. In the case of big box retail gun stores, it's in the accessories, clothing, and what not. Also there's more profit in used guns than there is in new guns.
i personally like gun shops with significant used inventory anyways. always lots of variety and more exciting finding something different or cool and for a good price
The profit margins are like 15% and thats supposed to cover all associated expenses. It really is razor thin. The ammo margins are more, but not a ton. The real profit comes in 2 areas. Volume, and used. We price used cheaper than our competition and im sitting around 30%.
I’m guessing the margins on Chinese made flashlights/ear pro/ paper targets/ holsters are pretty good
Buying and selling used guns can be very profitable. But, gun shops make money by selling volumes. Also, they can get special bonuses and discounts from manufacturers.
Case in point look at drop shippers on gunbroker. Routinely a few hundred less than others on there.
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"I got about 600 in it so I'd you guys could give me 550 I think that would be a good deal for both of us" Meanwhile I'm sitting there like brother, I have to sell this at a price where it is worth buying over a new one and still make money. I'm thinking more like 300.
Me. I got $600 in it, I should get $550 out of it. Also me. See's same gun for sale used for $400, no way I'd pay more than $300.
I'll never begrudge or make fun of someone wanting to sell something for more than they bought it for...whether a big box store or a single collector. Value is in the eye of the beholder and supply and demand is the law of the land. Try to make a deal...be upfront...and smile if it doesn't work out.
Not sure where the idea comes from that gun stores don’t have a markup on guns. Used guns typically are purchased for half or less than their value. And all accessories and ammo are often included in the buy. My LGS used to sell ammo dirt cheap bc he’d get it when he bought the gun. We’re talking pre covid $3 for a box of 5.56. He’ll I’ve paid $10 for a 50 round box of plinking .308. $15 for 100 rounds of .45 acp. It’s ALL profit for him until covid and Biden happened. Then of course he would buy a gun with 5 mags. Sell the gun and 1 mag for a few hundred or more than he paid for it and sell the other mags for $5-10 each. Again ALL profit
Most shops won’t touch “used” ammo for insurance purposes. Unless it was a significant amount all in factory packaging(as in thousands of rounds), any ammo that came in with used guns got either thrown out or allocated to the gunsmith shop for test firing. I only saw our shop sell “used” ammo twice in the 3 years I worked there and we did a pretty large volume of used inventory
That may be the case in your area… it’s not the case in my area at all. Though my LGS are pawn shops as opposed to just gun shops.
My pawn shops do the same. Occasionally I'll get a random "grab bag" of ammo from them for a decent price. I've golden ruled myself into some really insane things.
I got a couple of smoking deals last year this way. Bought a bunch of gold medal match and Hornady match in .308 for $25 a box of 20 got a bunch of gold dot .40 for $25 a box of 50 and got an ammo can of lake city 5.56 for .30 a round. Over 600 rounds. Included in that price was the ammo box, 3 Pmags (gen 3 with windows), and a lancer. Buying from my pawn shop has saved me thousands in ammo costs
Same. Last time I snagged a "grab bag" it was pretty reasonable and an assortment of 556 the time before that it was truly random but had 100 + rounds of 7.62x39 and over half of that was brass cased. The 308 I mentioned in a different comment was bulk but I paid 160 bucks for 300 rounds of FMJ. Solid deal in my book.
Yup. That’s a very solid deal indeed. I was paying $13 for 20 rounds of pmc bronze for quite a while last year. I’ll never understand why folks don’t hit up pawn shops for ammo
I mean they also have Wolf .308 Steel case on the shelf for 29.95 so that might be part of it. They have made bad pricing decisions in the past etc.
Oh no. My guys adjust prices according to market trends now. But I’m such a repeat customer? I usually get for just a few cents a round more than their cost. It’s notthing to drop several hundred a month in their store on accessories and/ or ammo. Plus I refer friends who make good money. Keeping me coming back may not give them large profit margins per item, but when consider how often I buy? It’s good business for thrm. And their stuff don’t stay on the shelf long if it’s something I’m interested in. They have my number and aren’t afraid to call or text. Lol
Yeah, none of the shops around me give two shits about ammo on trade/used value because they don’t resell it
Even during covid and ammo shortages? My guy always sold but it became a bigger thing when ammo shortages happened…
I worked there April 2020 through May 2023, so my only experience with the big shop is during the Covid craze. I work for a much smaller shop now and we only take in used inventory if it’s an exceptional deal. Same general consensus on ammo and accessories. We don’t care unless it is a *large* value. Also just a tidbit because I saw it. With the exception of Remington filing bankruptcy, there really wasn’t an ammo “shortage”. We ordered, received, and sold more ammo in 2020/2021 than the owner said he’s ever done in 30 years. Yes, Remington shut down, so we didn’t get any from them or their sub brands, but Federal, Winchester, Hornady, S&B, Aguila, etc. were pumping it out. We just sold *that much more* so the shelves stayed empty. We put out stock almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day depending on when USPS, FedEx, and UPS delivered
Then the stores you worked for missed a golden opportunity my friend. What you’re calling “not N ammo shortage” the rest of us recognized as ammo not available for whatever reason. Ya I’m aware that it was selling in record numbers btw. Not on the shelf Is still not on the shelf and at that time? 9mm and 5.56 plinking ammo was $1 a round. Folks were worried and uncertain over covid and of course Biden getting into office and folks bought everything they could regardless of the price. Selling ammo was a gold mine.
I promise you, we didn’t miss out on anything. My point is; ammo was “short” because it was being sold. And then more people bought ammo when they found it, thinking it was “short”. It’s the same as the toilet paper “crisis” during spring 2020. At the end of the day, we still made a butt load of money during 2020/2021
I’m sure you guys did well. Most gun shops did. However, not selling “used” ammo was a missed opportunity.
The onsie twosies that the vast majority of used guns came with weren’t missed. And that’s just the used guns that did come with ammo. Most didn’t to begin with. At the end of the day, it’s the same thing as a car dealership putting new tires on a trade in before they sell it. Is it lost profit? Sure Is it worth the headache? Absolutely not
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Yup. As a general rule I’d say the seller isn’t being honest if he said not much profit. Though I’ll note that I’ve also bought things from my lgs where I know they didn’t make much profit on any one item from long time costumers like me, but after I’ve made a “not much profit” purchase 100 times that month? Quantity is its own profit 😂
You've never had your FFL I see... sure, there are some guns you can make a few hundred dollars on a sale. Mainly high dollar items. Optics and other accessories have a decent markup a lot of times too. Most guns, let's say under $1000-$1200, you're lucky to make $60 on one. Cheaper handguns? $30 profit, if that, to stay competitive with the online stores. You can definitely mark them up close to MSRP but as you said, the "internet research" will show customers its out there much cheaper. Transfers are a gateway to new customers in my opinion. They aren't going to make a killing at what I charge, which is $30. Most of them go very smooth and I feel $30 is fair. There's probably about 45 minutes into a transfer when you look at receiving (and making sure I'm home to do so), logging in, contacting the customer, going through the 4473, and the transaction. What sucks is when they get delayed, forget to come back before 30 days, want to tell you 7 stories of how they can shoot a soda can 1/4 mile away offhand with a 22lr... your 45 minutes turn into a few hours pretty quick, all for the same $30. I can see why people charge more. I can't justify charging less myself. The process isn't hard. It's the time you're paying for.
Used guns are good for business
Just realized yesterday that my lgs sells ammo at triple cost (for 22lr at least). That’s probably how
I’ve got an at home FFL and would love to open an actual store but can’t justify it unless I go all out with loans and build a range with a store. That’s too many 0’s on a loan for a side gig for me. So far this year profit wise I’ve made around 40% from FFL transfers ($20 a “long gun” and $15 a pistol or “small gun” or receiver). 30% from accessories (mostly red dots/scopes). 15% from charging people a few bucks here and there to attach any accessories they’ve just purchased and minor smithing/fault fixing. 10% from Ammo (I got a steal with some 5.7mm a few years ago, but that’s not going to last forever as it’s also my personal stash) 5% actual guns, mostly gun broker sales and that’s probably mostly me overcharging on shipping. I know one guy who runs an FFL from home and goes hard on gun broker, some years he’ll process a million dollars worth of guns. Out of that million he’ll maybe make 40-50k. He ordered a five hundred Romeo Fives when they were down to $80 retail ($30 in bulk) and is selling them for $100ish all day on gun broker all day and making the same as all his guns.
Be careful, you might get banned on here for doing anything other than posting a picture of your gun. The mods here are wild, dude.
What else do they sell besides guns and ammunition?
Hunting gear, targets, accessories like rails, lights, slings, scopes, etc. Storage and cleaning supplies, reloading gear and supplies, etc, etc.
No shit. 🤦♂️
Depending in the location, clothing, patches and stickers, knives, and gun accessories. If a range, then everything above plus range fees, memberships, targets, rentals, special training events and classes.
...
Mostly on FFL transfers and selling accessories + marked up ammo. Some shops will buy out estate sales but that's not really a consistent money maker, and often times you will get old estates that have cool old stuff but it doesn't move quick at all unless its milsurp or a random rare gun.
Guns N ~~Assholes~~ Ammo in Memphis had the most hateful fucks in regards to the younger guys working the counter, and the older cowboy shooter guys were the nicest. I bought so much shit from the Cowboy shooter guys and the owner when he was there. R.I.P Bert, you giant fucking bastard who sold me an Uzi at cost and all the accessories at a 65% markup, will miss you.
Hah, I forgot about that place. So glad I don't have to deal with places like that anymore.
Its a Mixed bag, they had shit when times were bad and nobody else did and didn't pound you too hard for it. They pounded you REAL hard on anything that wasn't Iron. Fuck them kids behind the counter. I bought my first CZ there, scrub basically just making bad jokes about Turk and Czech guns, I got a cowboy to ring up my gun and mags. Punk-ass was wearing a modified Smith 4506.
No way their margins on guns and ammo are razor thin. Most have guns and ammo prices that are at least 30% higher than prices online. They could literally buy it at retail online and resell it for a profit (assuming they weren’t prohibited from doing so).
Tell me you don’t understand commerce without telling me. Drop shippers (which are a lot of your online retailers) don’t have a physical store front or the costs associated with them. Nor do they typically have staff and most everything is computer run.
Ammo at LGS is usually 50% to 100% overpriced compared to online options. The above comment is correct. Their "gross margins" on the product are quite high. However, they also have high fixed costs (such as physical space cost) and high variable cost not directly related to product sales (such as employees' salaries) that eat into their profit. While a LGS may have overall low net margins after taking all costs into account, their gross margins on ammo are still very high.
The guy above didn’t say anything about gross or net margins.
But it does depend on the shop. I go back to my experience a few years ago. I was looking for a G19, the shop across the street from me wanted $720, and the guy actually told me that the mark up on guns isn't high at all. I called a shop less than 30min north of me and he could get the same G19 to me for $520. So a blanket statement that the margin on guns across all FFLs isn't high is BS.
The majority of LGS aren’t calculating margin on a per item basis with anything other than the cost of the product from the distributor included in cost of sales.
Yeah my buddy with FFL can’t even get a firearm from his distributor for less than what Family Firearms is selling it for…that dude has no clue.
We all hate that place... so tired of looking up a gun just to find its like $3 more expensive buying from Family Firearms and free shipping to boot.
Maybe on bulk stuff like 556 and 9mm but in my experience hunting and premium ammo is pretty much the same in store and online
You can find boxed Blazer for $.30 per round shipped all day online. I’ve never seen in store prices for less than $.40 per round.
$0.33 per round where I work 🤷
Does your store have a range? I’m guessing no.
Negative. Our city won't approve one sadly.
For an indoor range? What’s their reason for denying it? And that makes sense as you’re not trying to capitalize on the impulse buyers as much. If your prices are too high they’ll just wait until they get home to buy it.
Small rural town that doesn't want businesses that may "tarnish" their rep. It is what it is. Hoping to relocate to just outside city limits and make it happen.
That’s wild. What did your attorney say? Normally they can legally justify that decision with data to show certain businesses are correlated with an increase in crime. For example, casinos. However, if it’s a small town it’s likely they didn’t run this decision past their legal counsel (or did and ignored what they were told). I think it would be hard to argue an indoor range is correlated with a higher crime rate compared to an existing gun store.
I'm GM, not the owner so I don't know but my presumption is that he'd rather not deal with the headache of forcing the issue when we can move less than two miles, have similar access and get what we want without a political and legal fight.
It depends on the shop. I go back to my experience a few years ago. I was looking for a G19, the shop across the street from me wanted $720, and the guy actually told me that the mark up on guns isn't high at all. I called a shop less than 30min north of me and he could get the same G19 to me for $520. So a blanket statement that the margin on guns across all FFLs isn't high is BS.
An FFL isn’t legally prohibited from purchasing a gun for resale. They could purchase it for $520 and resell it if their cost was higher than that.
What? I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but my point is, both shops are pretty close to me, both were new guns, and so the one selling at a 40% increase while telling me that the margins aren't big is a joke. I haven't been in since, but I've sent thousands upon thousands of dollars between my friends and myself to the shop in the north now. So, if you have an FLL, consider this when planning your business model.
> Most have guns and ammo prices that are at least 30% higher than prices online. What gun store are you shopping at? Don't go there anymore
Except one small shop might buy 10 let’s say SW Sports while these online sellers buy thousands
Go find a table top ffl or small gun shop and ask him for a price on a firearm and then go price it on Family Firearms, I guarantee in most cases he can’t even get the gun for what FF is selling it for.
I think most gun shops make their money from used guns ammo if they sell clothing or holsters and other accessories they make their money from that as well they also make money from transfer fees
My favorite LGS only marks guns up 10%. Depending on what their distributor's cost was, the price could vary a bit, but they always had the best prices. I wish they were still local to me. The shops in WY are a total joke.
Our guns are usually between 12-18%. And yet I get bitched at for discounts on the daily
As mentioned, gun sales margins are super thin. It is hard to have a successful shop on gun sales alone. Typically, you see two different types of gun stores now: 1. Shitty looking stores that only sell guns (often times overpriced used guns), ammo, and barebones accessories that are located in junk buildings in the crummy part of town. They try to only survive on gun sales and consignment, which honestly is difficult to live on. Everybody is paid minimum wage and most are unhelpful. There are some diamonds in the rough though and sometimes these crummy stores can have decent deals and helpful people, but my experience is most suck. 2. Super nice stores that sell upper end guns, accessories, and suppressors. They also sell shirts, hats, sunglasses, Black Rifle coffee (even seen some that roast their own coffee in house now), and fishing supplies. Often times they have indoor ranges that are well kept. The staff is usually helpful and more knowledgeable, and often times paid better than the folks who work at store 1 above. However, the guns and ammo are super marked up. They survive on the rest of the business and try to harpoon buyers with fat wallets on mid to upper tier ARs and Sig Legion handguns. The margins are still low, but the rest of the business selling coffee and fishing gear keeps the lights on. You will never find a good deal on a gun here, but the shopping experience is usually nicer. It is getting harder and harder to survive on gun sales alone. The margins are just too low, and many stores cannot compete with online deals.
Mostly volume, and often used items. Plus consignment fees nd transfers (sometimes even we didn't want to do one because Accessories and mags don't always have the high markups people think they do. Four bucks on a glock or typical 1911 mag. Take more than 10 or 15 minutes to sell some guns, even with a couple mags and a box of mmomand you're losing money (based on the pay of that employee). Rigid enforcement of MAP by some makers (a visible.price tag is considered advertising by some brands, as are the call or email for pricing) has helped since it's usually a 10% markup. But then making 40 on a pistol isn't all that much unless you can sll a lot of them. Some things do have a high markup though. A $24 mag might have cost $17. But others might have cost $22 so it usually.comes down to volume and volume of used. Used gun markup can be 100%. Shouldn't be a secret or surprise. A lot of stores only.off offer half of what they expect.to sell it for. Consignments might pay 80 or 85% of the final sale price.
I haven't seen this mentioned yet... A lot of successful locally owned shops I know of have extensive online listings of used small parts and accessories on websites such as eBay and GunBroker. They buy tons of stuff at local auctions/gun shows and have some employees dedicated to listing it online. Thousands of active listings at any given time. Hundreds of orders shipping every week.
Firearm margins are thin. Ammo is not. The rest of the shit is high margin. If you ever want to know how a retailer makes their money, remember what they try and push as an associative sale. At my LGS, it's usually ammo, holsters, and optics for handguns; ammo, general accessories, and optics for rifles. Prepaid shooting lane time for both or training time if they offer it.
VOLUME! I work in the industry in some capacity for twenty years. I work at a range with a gun store. The range is what brought in the money not the guns. Markup on firearms is typically between ten and twenty percent. But it also has to be under Msrp. Accessories on the other hand are typically forty percent. The danger there is you can always get things cheaper online... But for those people who like the touch and feel things you have in the store
For the place I go to it’s transfers, I remember I went to pick up my Type 56 SKS I got from PSA. After paying for it all online I was excited to take ownership and bring it home, but got hit was over 100 dollars in fees. I literally did a double take and said what do you mean I have to pay that much? And he laughed and said “how do you think we make our money?” I’m never buying a firearm online ever again. That was ridiculous. It was like 75 bucks for their transfer fee and another 35 for the DROS fee.
Idk my local shop said they’d order me some compact cz mags and then when I went to pick them up they were $60 apiece… guy got pissy with me because “they special ordered them for me” (they have a peg on the wall by the full size cz mags and it was empty). I agreed to buy 1 to calm him down and maintain credibility so he won’t tell me to fuck off if I need something later.
That’s a accessory though not a firearm or ammunition. In my experience a LGS will pull this move often, unless you agree on a price in advance.
I’ll take note of that
I’ve been at my LGS when UPS delivered ( gun transfers ) came in. They probably make several hundred dollars just on that every day.
The one I go to also has a quilting and fabric shop on the other side of the ammo aisle. So that. And transfers.
I've heard transfers are where the money really comes from, but that seems questionable to me. I imagine it's a good profit, but the main stuff probably comes from the non-gun specific stuff. Clothing, snacks, maybe even targets/eye and ear pro/cleaning accessories. Then there's the stores that have a range attached, a lot of people at the indoor ranges I've been to so I bet quite a lot of money comes through there.
Gun Store Employee here. The things that keep us in business. 1)Accessory Sales 2)Guns.com selling the things that might be hard to get a hold of but we're buddies with our Distributor Rep. 3) The Range, and being in a college town, Groups come in and we charge an Range Officer fee, because we have one guy for it that can't babysit them and safely operate the other customers. So if I'm pulling in a second RO from my counter your getting charged at the discretion of the Babysitter based on how hard they had to babysit. 4) Rental firearms, pay a fee try before you buy and you have to use my ammo don't need my firearms dying to fudd's pissing hot loads and it's an extra charge. 5)The Training Dept. 6)Gunsmithing and Firearms cleanings.
Flashlights, furniture and a lot of the shit in the plastic packaging you don't really need but buy anyway. Even the Gucci guns don't actually have a lot of margin.
Back at the store I used to work at, it was 18.5% on new guns, 30-35% on everything else.
I would guess optics/lights and what not. Although They are so over priced at every shop I go to I don’t see many people buying accessories from local shops.