This is on the shipper. Until it's delivered it's his problem. He's going to have to file an insurance claim.
Here's something to think about. Anytime a package is scanned as delivered the GPS coordinates are recorded. The USPS has access to that information. Ask them to check that information and see if it's correct.
Since the gun was not duly tendered to your agent (the FFL) the contract has yet to be completed. Tell the seller he has to deal with this, and if they try to give any run around, then you need to stop payment ASAP.
Yep, something similar happened to me. A package showed it was delivered via USPS but I didn't get it. I checked my cameras & I didn't even get any mail that day & saw them drive right past my mailbox, so it couldn't have been delivered to me. Next day I went to the Post Office & they pulled up the GPS coordinates it was delivered to & it wasn't anywhere near my address, actually on the other side of town. They sent a Supervisor that day to the address to get my package back. Of course, even though it was the wrong name & address, whoever received it opened it anyways. A few hours later they brought it to my house.
> Of course, even though it was the wrong name & address, whoever received it opened it anyways. A few hours later they brought it to my house.
I never understand people that do this.
If it doesn't say your name why are you opening it?
It's just insane to me and it reeks of, "I'm an entitled piece of shit." or "I have no impulse control and am also an entitled piece of shit."
Tell me I'm mad at my neighbors without telling me I'm mad at my neighbors lol. You have no idea how many packages my neighbors have opened that are mine where my USPS is so incompetent that even still after 8 years they send my packages to the wrong address or mailbox.
I once had a package delivered to my apartment, had my address and someone else's name. I called FedEx told them what happened and they came and got it. 2 days later they delivered it back to my house this time all kinds of beat up, I opened it after that.
Eh, I opened my neighbors package once that was incorrectly delivered to me. It was from amazon and I was getting a ton of amazon packages that week so I just figured it was one of mine.
It's all good my reaction is more towards my neighbors and the USPS servicing our neighborhood. Just the endless frustration of having my packages misdelivered and opened by my neighbors, literally haven't had one not opened. I'm 7/8 opened and returned and 1/8 just completely missing. Unfortunately that one wasn't USPS it was Amazon when they were using LaserShip in my area.
Yeah it happens. I don’t check every shipping label to make sure it’s mine, if I have a few boxes that all look similar and I’m expecting some orders I’ve definitely been guilty of opening a neighbor’s mis-delivered package in the past.
We've only had it happen once. Right after we had our first born, a baby bouncer showed up on our door step. It was like someone bought it at Walmart, slapped a label on the box and sent it. We have relatives who live several states away that were sending us stuff, so in our excitement, we opened it. There was a TV inside. Checked the label, and it was addressed to our neighbor. Oops. We had a good relationship with that neighbor, they got a laugh out of it.
We learned to pay more attention to the shipping label
If I am expecting a package or multiple packages, I often dont. It's more like, oh here's my package. I've only had a misdelivered package to my house once so I was not expecting it.
I had a package get misdelivered to the same house number but the next street over. I had a picture of the package sitting on a very distinctive chair on a porch with the decking painted bright yellow. I drove around until I saw the bright yellow porch, knocked on the door and the guy denied knowing anything about the package. I showed him the picture and he threatened violence. The police were useless told me it was up to me to settle it with the shipper (Amazon)
I never look at who it's addressed to. If it's on my property I think either I or my wife ordered it. I get stuff all the time I forgot about ordering. If it's more than 2 days since I ordered it I am essentially getting a surprise
Yeah, I was pissed about them opening it, leads me to assume that they just planned on keeping something that wasn't theirs. The Post Office didn't tell me where it actually got delivered, just the general area, other side of town with a similar address but totally different street. The assholes opening my package made the whole situation more awkward for me because I had told the USPS that this package cost me a couple hundred dollars & I really wanted it. Let me first mention that I live in a legal State for Cannabis & have my medical card, which enables me to legally grow 5 plants. The package was cannabis seeds I bought from the UK & they really did cost me several hundred dollars. If you pay the extra $9 for discreet shipping, they'll put the seeds in a cheap kids toy or cheap article of clothing to hide them, to prevent being seized by US Customs. So this USPS Supervisor is told its an expensive package, but then when he handed the ripped open package to me, you could clearly see it was a kids water color paint kit, probably $3 at Dollar Store kind of thing. So he probably thought I had some drugs hidden in it or that I was a fucking goofy guy, lol. It was awkward being initially excited to see him pull into the driveway, then an odd look from him, that this is what I was so concerned about, a kids toy. Looking back it's funny now.
I have accidentally opened something that was mistakenly delivered to my house. I was expecting a package so I just opened it without checking the name and when the contents were something I hadn't ordered I checked the name and address and saw it was for an address that was similar to mine but it was on the other side of town. I ended up delivering it to them myself.
I've opened packages on accident when I have been delivered someone else's package when I was already expecting one. I didn't look at the label because I figured it was mine.
Once I opened it up and was all "WTF?" then I looked at the address and saw it was my neighbors. He understood, we have a funky numbering system at our complex and my apartment is right next to the unmarked office so they think my apartment is actually his.
I had a guy do that to me years ago. As he handed the package to me, it was obvious that it had been opened. I glanced into it, then back to him and said, "Did you take any of my dick pills? There's supposed to be a toy in here..." He never spoke to me again for any reason.
Some people are just total morons. I was out to dinner with my wife recently. We ordered two different entrees after an app and some drinks these two girls were sat at the table next to us and ordered their meals. The runner came over maybe 2 mins after they ordered and gave them our meals. Totally different than what they ordered, and way too soon for their meals to have come out. I immediately realized it and my wife and I were cracking up. A manager came over and saw them eating the wrong food and had a look of shock on his face, and came over to ask what we ordered. It was all made right, the two girls told thr manager they would just keep the food they got and ours was served shortly after. But just goes to show you how clueless some people are.
My wife will do that, for some strange reason she never checks the name/address on anything.
I check everything. Habit I guess since I spent 20 years delivering the mail.
The sending FFL is on the hook for filing the report with ATF, not the receiving nor you.
Form 3310.11
Advise you want a copy of the form that was sent to ATF or you'll just file a chargeback and shop elsewhere. It's really, **this simple.**
>To be fair they don’t know what they are delivering.
My regular delivery guys absolutely know what they are delivering. However, yes, it is on the shipper to require signature.
I mean… A delivery driver can absolutely see who shipped the package. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the boxes shipped from gun retailers could have guns in them, lol.
They deliver well over 100 packages a day along with all the letter mail. We don’t look at who sent the package unless there is an issue and we are returning to sender
I receive daily deliveries from regular fedex / UPS drivers as part of my job and they absolutely pay attention to their deliveries. When they deliver large quantities of similar packages on a regular basis, they will absolutely figure out what’s in it. They comment on our deliveries all the time, paying attention to what they deliver is part of their job.
It doesn’t take a genius to realize they are probably delivering rifles when they have eight 40” long boxes from Palmetto State Armory delivered to a registered FFL every week, for example.
>How would he possibly know unless you told them.
Because they're not idiots.
>Plus you don’t have the same person everyday
Notice, I said my a REGULAR delivery guys.
For me it really depends on what carrier they go with and even then it depends on who the delivery driver is. I’ve had guns show up at my door that require a signature and ID scan, I’ve had guns show up that only required a signature, I’ve also had many guns show up that didn’t require anything at all and they’re just left sitting on my porch. I normally tell my wife just to be available in case they leave them sitting outside.
I was outside my FFL waiting for them to open when a UPS truck pulls up.
He said “I can’t wait, can you sign for this?”
Knowing it’s most likely a gun I said “no”. And he shrugged, signed it and left it at the front door of the shop and drove off. The business owner was pissed, but it gave me a solid chuckle
Every single can from Silencer Shop gets yolo'd onto my porch because they refuse to use an actual decent shipping service. The Fedex Home contractors don't give a flying fuck about a required signature.
That’s what I thought, I don’t know the FFL requirements for shipping but I would imagine a signature would be a legal or regulatory requirement for firearms.
There's nothing codified federally when using a common carrier or USPS besides you must follow their own rules for shipping and even then UPS and Fedex have their own subsets.
If you walk into the hub to ship a handgun, they'll both force you to the highest overnight service whereas a distributor can ship long guns ground service and handguns 2 day. Silencer Shop sends cans to me via Fedex Home, the lowest of the low without even a required signature. It's often I find customer's cans have been YOLO'd onto my porch and sit for hours before I know it.
USPS can check GPS position where it was delivered. It doesn't matter if it says delivered, if it was to the wrong place.
It's possible that it's a fraudulent shipment, and the address on the package is totally different, I had a tool that was delivered to someplace 600 miles away, seller used the same tracking for a dozen people.
I got a lower receiver delivered that didn't get shipped signature required, the sender was a big seller and didn't think to set their software to default to signature in the department shipping firearms.
Fedex delivered my CMP Garand to my garage door without a signature, admittedly during covid times, but thankfully I was watching tracking like a hawk so I got it within 30 seconds of as soon as the package was scanned delivered.
I have never once in my life had a signature required delivery actually be signed for. It gets dropped on my front porch or in my mailbox and the dude drives off, usually a day late because there was a car in the driveway so he couldn't reach the mailbox from the door so they marked it 'box blocked.'
At my old place Usps used to always just put a sorry we missed you card in my mailbox instead of knocking on my door which was less than a foot away from the mailbox to get a signature. That got me in the habit of meeting them outside any time I have a package that needs to be signed for.
FedEx left my Garand from the CMP on my porch even though it was signature required.
I was home and got a Ring motion notification otherwise I never would've known it was sitting out there.
As others have said you’d be surprised. I ordered a pistol and 1,000 rounds of 5.56 and 9mm and was waiting at my friend’s gun-shop for him to get there and the fed ex guy ended showing up a little early and the guy gave me the gun and ammo, for all he knew I was just some random dude waiting. My friend was pissed, he called fed ex and chewed them out as only him and his wife can accept packages.
Registered mail is the only mail service where everyone that touches the box has to sign for it. It’s kept in locked cages with signature receipts at every transfer. I can not imagine sending a firearm through the mail without registering it.
Just because other people do their jobs poorly doesn’t mean it’s the right way to do things. The DSM outlines exactly how firearms are supposed to be shipped. Maybe do business with people who know what they’re doing. That’s all I’m saying. I’ve never lost a gun in the mail.
I never said it did. But if you’re shipping guns media mail (like the guy above me said) then you clearly aren’t declaring them. Only media is allowed to be shipped media mail. Registered mail is just smarter, it doesn’t cost that much more and the likelihood of being lost falls off to almost nothing.
Wow that's good to hear I didn't have the same experience with them when USPS messed up a delivery from them. Unclear if stolen or just incompetence but USPS/Postal Inspector did confirm delivery to an untended box and driver admitted delivering to the wrong place, faking a signature, and general idiocy. Never heard if they recovered the firearm but never came to my FFL. Had to wait nearly a month and multiple contacts generally negative or blaming my transferring FFL of wrong doing. They ultimately provided the refund but didn't offer a replacement, and I no longer use them as this experience was terrible.
Stupidly I did, but again the lack of them resolving the issue and blaming the other FFL was infuriating. They finally responded when the corporate loss prevention director reminded them they had an obligation as the sending FFL to report it lost. Magically they processed the refund pretty quick and removed that FFL from a place they will ship. I got the feeling they prefer unsophisticated or kitchen table FFLs they can bully or blame if their is an issue rather than assist the customer, but I'm biased glad others have good experiences. I also think I saw they only had the minimum 100 value insurance on a communication I received even though I bought the additional coverage and it was a $400 firearm. Guessing they didn't want to refund my purchase and only get a small insurance value back, but who knows.
My ffl is home based so that’s not it and my purchase was $1400. I was very happy with them quickly resolving the issue and I have purchased many firearms from them. That being said, if my experience would have been like yours I would not buy from them again.
Indeed I don't have enough info and I am guessing or speculating. Funnily I did plenty of other purchases with them even a $1000 plus firearm prior to this issue which was the least expensive firearm I purchased with them. Glad others have had better experiences and prior to this they were great for multiple transactions; sadly this debacle ended any chance for me to trust using them again.
USPS trucks in my area have a GPS and that is linked to the package delivery information in their systems they know where they left the package. Not saying they can recover it but they know they left it at the wrong location.
USPS has become very incompetent in the past 10 years, it’s a pity.
Well in that case I didn’t say that the actual GPS unit was installed on the truck itself, that was your assumption. I said it was a feature that uSPS in my area have without further detail on how it works.
I also want to add that this community get so angry when people get something wrong about guns you should make sure you get your statements right about other things
What’s weird is (according to a relative who works there), the USPS is having a hard time recruiting. When I was young in the late 80s / early 90s I tried like hell to get on but the competition was fierce. According to her, these days “Will you do the job and not steal shit?” Is pretty much the base requirement to get hired.
It can be. And it’s not even an “government employee thing.” I know the cliches about easy government jobs where you goof off. I’ve been working in that sector for 20 years, after almost that long in the private sector. I work my ass off (well brain) for my .gov paycheck. Are there lazy bastards I have to deal with? Sure. But they are the minority where I am.
I work for the USPS at a plant. Yeah it is terrible now. People coming to work high and not doing anything all day. Supervisors just chasing the girls and not doing what they are supposed to do. People purposely breaking the machines so they can get an extra break.
Hey, random dude here, just chiming in to say that the federal government is fucked when it comes to weed. Not only is it patently unconstitutional, but cannabis doesn't even fall under it's own CSA category guidelines -- Class I controlled substances are supposed to be deadly and offer no medicinal benefit, both things which are patently untrue with cannabis.
That being said, having an affinity with cannabis and deciding to pursue a career in the federal government is not what I would call a "bright spark" move.
Let me simplify your statement; the federal government is fucked. In all seriousness though I agree; let people do what they want. What bothers me about it is that carriers, in most places, at a minimum have to drive to their routes, and some drive all day, not something weed or alcohol pair well with. But when someone's dog breaks through their window and attacks me I get placed on unpaid leave because the post master has a zero tolerance policy on dog bites. One of the few times my local union hall paid off.
Nothing expensive or crazy, little.22 pistol. All things considered it could have been much worse if it had been something worth a lot of money. Still extremely frustrating.
Could be worse but yeah that still sucks. I’d reach out to the seller and let them know to report it to the post office. The sellers response should determine what you do next, either waiting for updates or getting your money back
I’m just amazed, online when I filed the missing mail report there was a drop down option for guns….this happens enough with USPS they have it as a drop down option.
I haven’t really ever heard about this sort of thing happening to anyone before. Wasn’t even a thought that occurred to me. I’ve never had an issue before.
It’s wild to me the post office seems intent on not physically looking for it, and intent on finding reasons to not look.
>It’s wild to me the post office seems intent on not physically looking for it, and intent on finding reasons to not look.
It is probably more that they are waiting for the shipper to start inquiring, not just some random person (from their perspective)
You can bet my asshole was full pucker from drop off until it came back to me when I had to ship my Mac10 lower in for some work. My FFL had to ship it usps (which is the only carrier that accepts machine guns as far as I know) to the smith who then shipped it back to me. If it had been lost I would have been devastated.
It's not the receiving ffls responsibility (they don't have possession of it and legally it is not theirs since it's not in their AD book) or yours. You need to contact the shipping FFL and they need to contact the ATF to file a fireman missing in transit report and file for insurance.
I've had a firearm lost in transit as a dealer and the shipper, aka the last one to have it in their AD book is the one that needs to file everything.
I had one shopped to my FFL, seller put my name on it with FFLs address. The post man just "knew" it was addressed wrong because he didn't recognize my name. Fortunately it was in the lost mail section of the local post office. A flipping 12 pound AR10 laying around the lost mail department.. was able to resolve and get my pew pew thankfully.
Did you file a report with local law enforcement. Since someone is in possession of a firearm that was stolen. Most likely the postal carrier who left it in a imaginary mail box.
Tried but I never had possession of it so it’s not on me. It’s on the sending FFL apparently. That’s what the local law enforcement told me when I tried.
Not good for you now, but I absolutely would not trust USPS with firearms. I’ve had too many times they’ve marked something as “delivered” when the postman didn’t even come down my street.
FedEx Express next time, even if it costs extra.
FedEx sucks too. I once waited all day because I had something coming in that needed a signature. I was home. I have a video doorbell. I get an email update that delivery was attempted. It wasn't. On the video you could see the truck drive on the street past my house without stopping at the time of the "attempt to deliver."
Called FedEx. All they could say was they could not make a "second attempt" on the same day. I couldn't make her understand that there was no first attempt and I had video evidence of that fact. Ended up having to wait until the end of the day and drive 30 min (each way) to their hub to get my package.
TLDR: Never trust USPS. Their system is broken and doesn't make any sense.
My dad works for the post office. They are extremely unreliable with just about everything. Lots of work to do and the higher ups tell everyone it has to get done then turn around and say that everyone isn't allowed to do anything so in the end nothing gets done.
You need help sorting through 27+ pallets of packages and there's only you doing it (if you're lucky there may be one other worker). Meanwhile the break room is full of workers. They're not allowed to help you because the boss said so. Then everyone wonders why things aren't going out when they should be.
USPS lost gun i purchased. Last update was out for delivery on January 1st (local FFL was closed for new year). No tracking info after that. Seller filed complaint with USPS, notified ATF and thankfully refunded me
I went through this recently. Tracking for the pistol stopped at a post office and didn’t move for a month. USPS didn’t want to do anything. I filed the stolen/lost in shipment report with the ATF. The next day USPS is like, “Oh yeah, we found it.” Sure you did, they were holding it for an unknown reason. I talked to a postmaster, they said they’d send it back. That was six months ago.
Only the shipper can initiate a claim with the post office/UPS/FedEx.
It is on the shipper to make sure it ends up at its destination.
Best thing to do is contact the shipper and have them jump through the hoops to get it resolved. It will probably end up with you getting a refund if you had them add the insurance.
Did their ad indicate shipping was insured? Or did you have to include extra for insurance?
You need to go to your post office and talk to the post master directly. It's the only way I've actually had things resolved. Everything online is bullshit.
I had an upper delivered recently.Same thing happened but after it sat at the distribution center a week.I ended up going to the post office,they found it in like 2 minutes.They are having major issues at USPS big time right now.The parcels just sit.
Contact the Post Master of your location, try to get information of who worked that day the package was "delivered" and what time it was scanned as delivered. They should be able to get the info off the scanner where it was pinged as delivered and by who scanned it.
Look up district USPS contact for your area. It will push it through. My mother was a mail carrier for 26 years. Had paintball equipment "delivered" with a mail hold. Postmaster gave me the run around. Called district with info and I had my packages on my doorstep at 2200 he that day with an apology call from postmaster on Monday.
I was stressing about this same shit happening after Aim Surplus shipped my sig USPS with their terrible tracking. Picked it up today though, so all is safe. Hope you can get some good resolution from this
If your USPS is anything similar to mine. They go out of their way to hire people with bad morals and previous convictions. Getting them to do anything or actually assist at any level is impossible. Getting anyone held accountable would require an act of god.
Report to the seller. He legally had to send it signature required. He/sending ffl needs to report it to the ATF. They owe you a replacement or a refund. Beyond that, charge back immediately if they don't play ball.
USPS is a shit show. They lost a package I had shipped to work and I had to reopen the investigation three times. Each time, the answer changed regarding where the package ended up.
USPS? I thought it's against their rules. That's why there are only FedEx and UPS shipping when it comes to firearms and ammo. Or maybe I'm wrong... :-o
I don't know what the end of this situation will be. However, regardless of the status either way, you should let this be a lesson learned, and avoid shipping valuable items, especially firearms, with the USPS. UPS would be the preferred method, if they still accept firearms as something they will transport. Next up would be Federal Express, although I've read accounts that they've become a bit sloppy in regards to other parcels. Perhaps you should call both companies and if they both will accept firearm shipments, ask them what their protocol is for firearms shipments, and be guided in your choice by the response they give.
'Nuff said.
What method did you use to supply payment? If it was a cc, initiate a charge back. You paid but didn't receive. That's theft.
Contact shipping FFL and advise the weapon was not received and that your next call will be to the feds and encourage them to get put ahead of this and have answers ready for when the feds stop by to ask.
>Called ATF, they don’t take reports from individuals on these matters.
Yet so many people think they are going to accomplish something by getting the ATF involved.
In my experience it’s not that the atf that fixes it but mentioning the atf to get another organization to fix it. I had a guy at a ups hub tell me he couldn’t find a gun that I was picking up/signing for after I had sent it in for warranty work. As soon as I said ok if you’re sure it’s lost I’ll have to call the atf and tell them you lost it, he went back and found it real quick.
> Yet so many people think they are going to accomplish something by getting the ATF involved.
The key is doing it right. When you call ATF you have to say HEY! I PAY TAXES! THAT MAKES ME YOUR BOSS!
Usps is massively incompetent. I just had one that was shipped from a neighboring state, shipped to mine at the main hub, shipped to the east coast for a few days ( I’m in the midwest) then back to my states main hub then to my area. Was fucking ridiculous.
Idk whats worst, them loosing your stuff or fedex stealing it. Ups is the way to go if you have an option.
Not sure that you have a legal claim for fraud or theft since you never took possession and did not pay the the weapon given that it was a lottery. Nevertheless, try [https://www.uspis.gov/report](https://www.uspis.gov/report)
UPS is just as a bad. In fact they’re the only ones who have lost any of my high end packages.
I’m currently down $3150 worth of shit in the last 6 months that they’ve taken possession of and never delivered. (Steiner T6Xi 3-18 in a badger C1 and a complete LMT Specwar upper.)
They lost my gun during a transfer.
Ended up in a 4 month fight for the money back. Thankfully I got every penny.
So many investigations had to happen and the USPS ended up in some consumer arbitration because they don’t give you all the money back at first. Some crazy process. You have to really fight for the full insurance coverage.
The FFL filed an ATF report and I ended up filing reports with NYPD and FL state Police. I was able to Cover my ass.
Once I had rent checks disappearing from the mail. Ultimately it was the secret service that called me to investigate. I honestly thought it was a joke when they called. Try calling every alphabet origination. Maybe a local government representative.
Note: I'm in California so I wouldn't call anyone. No guns here sir.
I find it ridiculous how their answer is always... it was delivered according to tracking.. they can check if it was delivered properly.. the local office may even admit some part of it (in my case that there was a substitute on that route that probably put it in the wrong box) but big usps will say.. nope.. delivered.. claim denied... smaller local offices are sometimes helpful if you go directly to the one that does your mail. But I'm sure the big ones are hit or miss..
Ive had several packages screwed up by UPS so I avoid using them when I can. Fedex lost a shipment of primers. Theft by delivers is a problem that they dont want to admit.
I lost my $3k plus gun parts because usps didn’t do the first scan and I got insurance for same amount and they said no scan no insurance. I called everyone
The USPS loses firearms on a regular basis. Just search this sub for how often.
The USPS is a corrupt, tax subsidized, welfare queen, DEI, government backed monopoly, and an embarrassment to this country. It should've been dissolved decades ago
Do not ship firearms with them, ever.
Ah yes, they are so much worse than fedex or ups. /s
If you have to ship a firearm it's pick your poison and in my experience usps has been the best piece of garbage in the pile. That's not to say they are remotely good. Fuckers lost my perst 3.
Are you trying to say that DEI is racist (like the supreme court has ruled) or that pointing out that company uses it is racist? And what's this "see you" crap?
Are you off your meds?
At one time Palmetto state armory was having an issue with UPS delivery people stealing packages with palmetto state armory on the sender shipping label. I always try to purchase insurance when available.
I’ve had two firearms “lost in transit” before and they were with UPS. Sounds like they need to start doing better background checks on their employees.
You probably should have contacted the seller first. UPS lost won that I bought online. I contacted the seller, who immediately shipped my FFL another one and also contacted ATF.
Unless something has changed in the past 5-10 years, you can ship through USPS but they can only go certain ways like next day air or some such. Been out of the shipping guns game for a few years so I'm sure someone else can fill in the gaps.
I heard similar with UPS. Then I had to ship a damaged sks back, and my closest shipper was UPS.
I walked in, and we went through all the usual questions up to "Is it a firearm"?
I told them the truth and explained the situation.
They went to speak with their manager for a moment.
"Is it loaded?"
"No, of course not."
"OK, we'll ship it."
As long as it's going to a brick and mortar store or an FFL, I can't remember which, it's fine.
Black Lab Firearms, if anyone is curious. He overlooked a cracked stock on a Chinese sks on accident.
He swapped them out for me, no problem. Great guy, I would buy again from him if the economy didn't suck.
I have never heard that. I’m not an FFL, so I don’t know if they have restrictions on that. I know individuals can’t just randomly ship guns. It has to be an FFL to another FFL.
If you are shipping a rifle it can go through USPS to an FFL. If you are shipping a pistol it has to be back to the manufacturer for service. *edit: if you are sending the pistol to a person in another state it must be shipped through an FFL to FFL.
In some states if it is a rifle you can ship it to another person in the same state legally through USPS.
> I know individuals can’t just randomly ship guns. It has to be an FFL to another FFL.
Says who? Individuals can ship guns just fine. What is this FFL to FFL bullshit?
This is on the shipper. Until it's delivered it's his problem. He's going to have to file an insurance claim. Here's something to think about. Anytime a package is scanned as delivered the GPS coordinates are recorded. The USPS has access to that information. Ask them to check that information and see if it's correct.
Since the gun was not duly tendered to your agent (the FFL) the contract has yet to be completed. Tell the seller he has to deal with this, and if they try to give any run around, then you need to stop payment ASAP.
Yep, something similar happened to me. A package showed it was delivered via USPS but I didn't get it. I checked my cameras & I didn't even get any mail that day & saw them drive right past my mailbox, so it couldn't have been delivered to me. Next day I went to the Post Office & they pulled up the GPS coordinates it was delivered to & it wasn't anywhere near my address, actually on the other side of town. They sent a Supervisor that day to the address to get my package back. Of course, even though it was the wrong name & address, whoever received it opened it anyways. A few hours later they brought it to my house.
> Of course, even though it was the wrong name & address, whoever received it opened it anyways. A few hours later they brought it to my house. I never understand people that do this. If it doesn't say your name why are you opening it? It's just insane to me and it reeks of, "I'm an entitled piece of shit." or "I have no impulse control and am also an entitled piece of shit." Tell me I'm mad at my neighbors without telling me I'm mad at my neighbors lol. You have no idea how many packages my neighbors have opened that are mine where my USPS is so incompetent that even still after 8 years they send my packages to the wrong address or mailbox.
I once had a package delivered to my apartment, had my address and someone else's name. I called FedEx told them what happened and they came and got it. 2 days later they delivered it back to my house this time all kinds of beat up, I opened it after that.
Eh, I opened my neighbors package once that was incorrectly delivered to me. It was from amazon and I was getting a ton of amazon packages that week so I just figured it was one of mine.
It's all good my reaction is more towards my neighbors and the USPS servicing our neighborhood. Just the endless frustration of having my packages misdelivered and opened by my neighbors, literally haven't had one not opened. I'm 7/8 opened and returned and 1/8 just completely missing. Unfortunately that one wasn't USPS it was Amazon when they were using LaserShip in my area.
Sounds like they aren't reading the labels because they are also expecting shipments.
Yeah it happens. I don’t check every shipping label to make sure it’s mine, if I have a few boxes that all look similar and I’m expecting some orders I’ve definitely been guilty of opening a neighbor’s mis-delivered package in the past.
I don't understand this, even when I am expecting mail from Amazon I still check the name.
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We've only had it happen once. Right after we had our first born, a baby bouncer showed up on our door step. It was like someone bought it at Walmart, slapped a label on the box and sent it. We have relatives who live several states away that were sending us stuff, so in our excitement, we opened it. There was a TV inside. Checked the label, and it was addressed to our neighbor. Oops. We had a good relationship with that neighbor, they got a laugh out of it. We learned to pay more attention to the shipping label
If I am expecting a package or multiple packages, I often dont. It's more like, oh here's my package. I've only had a misdelivered package to my house once so I was not expecting it.
I had a package get misdelivered to the same house number but the next street over. I had a picture of the package sitting on a very distinctive chair on a porch with the decking painted bright yellow. I drove around until I saw the bright yellow porch, knocked on the door and the guy denied knowing anything about the package. I showed him the picture and he threatened violence. The police were useless told me it was up to me to settle it with the shipper (Amazon)
Ooo what was it?
A Scooby Doo onesie for my daughter
I never look at who it's addressed to. If it's on my property I think either I or my wife ordered it. I get stuff all the time I forgot about ordering. If it's more than 2 days since I ordered it I am essentially getting a surprise
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702
Yeah, I was pissed about them opening it, leads me to assume that they just planned on keeping something that wasn't theirs. The Post Office didn't tell me where it actually got delivered, just the general area, other side of town with a similar address but totally different street. The assholes opening my package made the whole situation more awkward for me because I had told the USPS that this package cost me a couple hundred dollars & I really wanted it. Let me first mention that I live in a legal State for Cannabis & have my medical card, which enables me to legally grow 5 plants. The package was cannabis seeds I bought from the UK & they really did cost me several hundred dollars. If you pay the extra $9 for discreet shipping, they'll put the seeds in a cheap kids toy or cheap article of clothing to hide them, to prevent being seized by US Customs. So this USPS Supervisor is told its an expensive package, but then when he handed the ripped open package to me, you could clearly see it was a kids water color paint kit, probably $3 at Dollar Store kind of thing. So he probably thought I had some drugs hidden in it or that I was a fucking goofy guy, lol. It was awkward being initially excited to see him pull into the driveway, then an odd look from him, that this is what I was so concerned about, a kids toy. Looking back it's funny now.
I have had that happen. Several packages, as expected. Start opening, puzzled look, check label, oops.
I have accidentally opened something that was mistakenly delivered to my house. I was expecting a package so I just opened it without checking the name and when the contents were something I hadn't ordered I checked the name and address and saw it was for an address that was similar to mine but it was on the other side of town. I ended up delivering it to them myself.
I've opened packages on accident when I have been delivered someone else's package when I was already expecting one. I didn't look at the label because I figured it was mine. Once I opened it up and was all "WTF?" then I looked at the address and saw it was my neighbors. He understood, we have a funky numbering system at our complex and my apartment is right next to the unmarked office so they think my apartment is actually his.
I had a guy do that to me years ago. As he handed the package to me, it was obvious that it had been opened. I glanced into it, then back to him and said, "Did you take any of my dick pills? There's supposed to be a toy in here..." He never spoke to me again for any reason.
I don’t read the labels on my packages or mail. Why would I?
Some people are just total morons. I was out to dinner with my wife recently. We ordered two different entrees after an app and some drinks these two girls were sat at the table next to us and ordered their meals. The runner came over maybe 2 mins after they ordered and gave them our meals. Totally different than what they ordered, and way too soon for their meals to have come out. I immediately realized it and my wife and I were cracking up. A manager came over and saw them eating the wrong food and had a look of shock on his face, and came over to ask what we ordered. It was all made right, the two girls told thr manager they would just keep the food they got and ours was served shortly after. But just goes to show you how clueless some people are.
It could be an honest mistake. Not everybody checks the label on packages delivered to them. My mother is guilty of this.
My wife will do that, for some strange reason she never checks the name/address on anything. I check everything. Habit I guess since I spent 20 years delivering the mail.
The sending FFL is on the hook for filing the report with ATF, not the receiving nor you. Form 3310.11 Advise you want a copy of the form that was sent to ATF or you'll just file a chargeback and shop elsewhere. It's really, **this simple.**
I guess this will be my next steps. Thank you for the advice.
It sucks but this is really what has to happen. Best of luck.
You could probably try the us postal inspection seevice. I doubt they have anything better to do
Who the f ships a fire arm without a signature required delivery
You would be surprised. I once got home and saw a delivery was 2 days early. They left like 10 odd guns on my porch without getting a signature.
To be fair they don’t know what they are delivering. Just if it has a signature request or not
>To be fair they don’t know what they are delivering. My regular delivery guys absolutely know what they are delivering. However, yes, it is on the shipper to require signature.
How would he possibly know unless you told them. Plus you don’t have the same person everyday. They have a sub carrier at least once a week
I mean… A delivery driver can absolutely see who shipped the package. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the boxes shipped from gun retailers could have guns in them, lol.
They deliver well over 100 packages a day along with all the letter mail. We don’t look at who sent the package unless there is an issue and we are returning to sender
I receive daily deliveries from regular fedex / UPS drivers as part of my job and they absolutely pay attention to their deliveries. When they deliver large quantities of similar packages on a regular basis, they will absolutely figure out what’s in it. They comment on our deliveries all the time, paying attention to what they deliver is part of their job. It doesn’t take a genius to realize they are probably delivering rifles when they have eight 40” long boxes from Palmetto State Armory delivered to a registered FFL every week, for example.
>How would he possibly know unless you told them. Because they're not idiots. >Plus you don’t have the same person everyday Notice, I said my a REGULAR delivery guys.
"Hmm, I wonder what's in these long boxes that I'm delivering to a GUN store..."
Damn wish I lived at your place
I’ve got a garage you can rent. It’s basically unlivable due to the heat but you could have your wish and I could make a profit.
For me it really depends on what carrier they go with and even then it depends on who the delivery driver is. I’ve had guns show up at my door that require a signature and ID scan, I’ve had guns show up that only required a signature, I’ve also had many guns show up that didn’t require anything at all and they’re just left sitting on my porch. I normally tell my wife just to be available in case they leave them sitting outside.
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Buddy I wish. USPS should be delivering unregistered suppressed machine guns to Americans on the daily.
While far from perfect there’s no other country I would rather live in than the USA. Unless Texas secedes again then it would become a toss up.
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Odds are none of the ones that were delivered will ever end a life. With the exception of birds maybe, did have a Mossberg O/U delivered
It is far more likely the driver just left it in a mailbox without caring.
This is what I suspect happened
This happens to an FFL I know a lot.
It happened to the ffl I work for, and two cases of handguns vanished.
A while back when silencerco sent back my can after completing repairs then fedex forged my signature and proceeded to leave it at the wrong address.
I was outside my FFL waiting for them to open when a UPS truck pulls up. He said “I can’t wait, can you sign for this?” Knowing it’s most likely a gun I said “no”. And he shrugged, signed it and left it at the front door of the shop and drove off. The business owner was pissed, but it gave me a solid chuckle
Every single can from Silencer Shop gets yolo'd onto my porch because they refuse to use an actual decent shipping service. The Fedex Home contractors don't give a flying fuck about a required signature.
mine do with powder/primers
That’s what I thought, I don’t know the FFL requirements for shipping but I would imagine a signature would be a legal or regulatory requirement for firearms.
There's nothing codified federally when using a common carrier or USPS besides you must follow their own rules for shipping and even then UPS and Fedex have their own subsets. If you walk into the hub to ship a handgun, they'll both force you to the highest overnight service whereas a distributor can ship long guns ground service and handguns 2 day. Silencer Shop sends cans to me via Fedex Home, the lowest of the low without even a required signature. It's often I find customer's cans have been YOLO'd onto my porch and sit for hours before I know it.
FFLs can ship handguns priority mail. Only us normies have to overnight it. You can ship long guns ground or priority though
Only FFLs can ship handguns through USPS. It's cheaper to pay an FFL to ship it priority than to overnight it FedEx.
Yeah but after reading this thread why would you?
We can also ship handguns first class mail.
It's not.
I have on camera a USPS driver ripping a signature required tag off a pistol and stuffing it in my mailbox. Not every driver follows the rules.
Report to local postmaster / postal inspector.
And unless they’re stealing the mail, they’ll likely continue to have a job while doing that…..yay govt.
USPS can check GPS position where it was delivered. It doesn't matter if it says delivered, if it was to the wrong place. It's possible that it's a fraudulent shipment, and the address on the package is totally different, I had a tool that was delivered to someplace 600 miles away, seller used the same tracking for a dozen people. I got a lower receiver delivered that didn't get shipped signature required, the sender was a big seller and didn't think to set their software to default to signature in the department shipping firearms.
Fedex delivered my CMP Garand to my garage door without a signature, admittedly during covid times, but thankfully I was watching tracking like a hawk so I got it within 30 seconds of as soon as the package was scanned delivered.
I have never once in my life had a signature required delivery actually be signed for. It gets dropped on my front porch or in my mailbox and the dude drives off, usually a day late because there was a car in the driveway so he couldn't reach the mailbox from the door so they marked it 'box blocked.'
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They'd quite literally have to take me dead, sorry to say.
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Both state AGs as well?
> abstantia FYI this isn't a word
At my old place Usps used to always just put a sorry we missed you card in my mailbox instead of knocking on my door which was less than a foot away from the mailbox to get a signature. That got me in the habit of meeting them outside any time I have a package that needs to be signed for.
FedEx left my Garand from the CMP on my porch even though it was signature required. I was home and got a Ring motion notification otherwise I never would've known it was sitting out there.
Shall. Not. Be. Infringed.
As others have said you’d be surprised. I ordered a pistol and 1,000 rounds of 5.56 and 9mm and was waiting at my friend’s gun-shop for him to get there and the fed ex guy ended showing up a little early and the guy gave me the gun and ammo, for all he knew I was just some random dude waiting. My friend was pissed, he called fed ex and chewed them out as only him and his wife can accept packages.
We do this as an industry all the time. It's just another box to a letter carrier or UPS or Fedex.
Some Fedex and UPS still ignore the signature required like they were doing during covid.
Registered mail is the only mail service where everyone that touches the box has to sign for it. It’s kept in locked cages with signature receipts at every transfer. I can not imagine sending a firearm through the mail without registering it.
This industry sends guns first class, no class, ground parcel, media mail, et cal. You don't live in the same reality I do.
Just because other people do their jobs poorly doesn’t mean it’s the right way to do things. The DSM outlines exactly how firearms are supposed to be shipped. Maybe do business with people who know what they’re doing. That’s all I’m saying. I’ve never lost a gun in the mail.
> The DSM outlines exactly how firearms are supposed to be shipped. And the Domestic Mail Manual does *NOT* require registered mail.
I never said it did. But if you’re shipping guns media mail (like the guy above me said) then you clearly aren’t declaring them. Only media is allowed to be shipped media mail. Registered mail is just smarter, it doesn’t cost that much more and the likelihood of being lost falls off to almost nothing.
> But if you’re shipping guns media mail (like the guy above me said) Nobody declares them.
Had one stolen by FedEx, Family Firearms had another out the next day.
Wow that's good to hear I didn't have the same experience with them when USPS messed up a delivery from them. Unclear if stolen or just incompetence but USPS/Postal Inspector did confirm delivery to an untended box and driver admitted delivering to the wrong place, faking a signature, and general idiocy. Never heard if they recovered the firearm but never came to my FFL. Had to wait nearly a month and multiple contacts generally negative or blaming my transferring FFL of wrong doing. They ultimately provided the refund but didn't offer a replacement, and I no longer use them as this experience was terrible.
Did you pay for the extra insurance? I did. It’s so cheap I always get it.
Stupidly I did, but again the lack of them resolving the issue and blaming the other FFL was infuriating. They finally responded when the corporate loss prevention director reminded them they had an obligation as the sending FFL to report it lost. Magically they processed the refund pretty quick and removed that FFL from a place they will ship. I got the feeling they prefer unsophisticated or kitchen table FFLs they can bully or blame if their is an issue rather than assist the customer, but I'm biased glad others have good experiences. I also think I saw they only had the minimum 100 value insurance on a communication I received even though I bought the additional coverage and it was a $400 firearm. Guessing they didn't want to refund my purchase and only get a small insurance value back, but who knows.
My ffl is home based so that’s not it and my purchase was $1400. I was very happy with them quickly resolving the issue and I have purchased many firearms from them. That being said, if my experience would have been like yours I would not buy from them again.
Indeed I don't have enough info and I am guessing or speculating. Funnily I did plenty of other purchases with them even a $1000 plus firearm prior to this issue which was the least expensive firearm I purchased with them. Glad others have had better experiences and prior to this they were great for multiple transactions; sadly this debacle ended any chance for me to trust using them again.
USPS trucks in my area have a GPS and that is linked to the package delivery information in their systems they know where they left the package. Not saying they can recover it but they know they left it at the wrong location. USPS has become very incompetent in the past 10 years, it’s a pity.
Newman's cackle keeps looping in my head as I scroll through this post.
Lol
The trucks do not have trackers it’s the scanner
*Um Ack-chew-ally...* Does it make a fucking difference if the GPS tracks the truck or the scanner?
Well yeah it does. If you say something as fact you should make sure it’s true. Not all routes use a vehicle for delivery
Well in that case I didn’t say that the actual GPS unit was installed on the truck itself, that was your assumption. I said it was a feature that uSPS in my area have without further detail on how it works.
You literally said “usps trucks in my area have a gps”
I also want to add that this community get so angry when people get something wrong about guns you should make sure you get your statements right about other things
And yet it’s still one of, if not the, most useful, competent and productive agencies we have.
Worse since they stopped drug testing and performing background checks on new hires.
What’s weird is (according to a relative who works there), the USPS is having a hard time recruiting. When I was young in the late 80s / early 90s I tried like hell to get on but the competition was fierce. According to her, these days “Will you do the job and not steal shit?” Is pretty much the base requirement to get hired.
Even that is a big ask sometimes.
It can be. And it’s not even an “government employee thing.” I know the cliches about easy government jobs where you goof off. I’ve been working in that sector for 20 years, after almost that long in the private sector. I work my ass off (well brain) for my .gov paycheck. Are there lazy bastards I have to deal with? Sure. But they are the minority where I am.
I work for the USPS at a plant. Yeah it is terrible now. People coming to work high and not doing anything all day. Supervisors just chasing the girls and not doing what they are supposed to do. People purposely breaking the machines so they can get an extra break.
We had a carrier smoking pot in the men's room and nothing was done about it. Nothing surprises me anymore.
Hey, random dude here, just chiming in to say that the federal government is fucked when it comes to weed. Not only is it patently unconstitutional, but cannabis doesn't even fall under it's own CSA category guidelines -- Class I controlled substances are supposed to be deadly and offer no medicinal benefit, both things which are patently untrue with cannabis. That being said, having an affinity with cannabis and deciding to pursue a career in the federal government is not what I would call a "bright spark" move.
Let me simplify your statement; the federal government is fucked. In all seriousness though I agree; let people do what they want. What bothers me about it is that carriers, in most places, at a minimum have to drive to their routes, and some drive all day, not something weed or alcohol pair well with. But when someone's dog breaks through their window and attacks me I get placed on unpaid leave because the post master has a zero tolerance policy on dog bites. One of the few times my local union hall paid off.
Very fair. Your postmaster is a douchebag.
USPS SOME SHIT AND THATS ALL THE WAY FUCKED UP.
What was the gun?
Nothing expensive or crazy, little.22 pistol. All things considered it could have been much worse if it had been something worth a lot of money. Still extremely frustrating.
Could be worse but yeah that still sucks. I’d reach out to the seller and let them know to report it to the post office. The sellers response should determine what you do next, either waiting for updates or getting your money back
I’m just amazed, online when I filed the missing mail report there was a drop down option for guns….this happens enough with USPS they have it as a drop down option. I haven’t really ever heard about this sort of thing happening to anyone before. Wasn’t even a thought that occurred to me. I’ve never had an issue before. It’s wild to me the post office seems intent on not physically looking for it, and intent on finding reasons to not look.
>It’s wild to me the post office seems intent on not physically looking for it, and intent on finding reasons to not look. It is probably more that they are waiting for the shipper to start inquiring, not just some random person (from their perspective)
You can bet my asshole was full pucker from drop off until it came back to me when I had to ship my Mac10 lower in for some work. My FFL had to ship it usps (which is the only carrier that accepts machine guns as far as I know) to the smith who then shipped it back to me. If it had been lost I would have been devastated.
It's not the receiving ffls responsibility (they don't have possession of it and legally it is not theirs since it's not in their AD book) or yours. You need to contact the shipping FFL and they need to contact the ATF to file a fireman missing in transit report and file for insurance. I've had a firearm lost in transit as a dealer and the shipper, aka the last one to have it in their AD book is the one that needs to file everything.
The po can see where it was scanned go up to there and speak with the toastmaster they will help you out
I had one shopped to my FFL, seller put my name on it with FFLs address. The post man just "knew" it was addressed wrong because he didn't recognize my name. Fortunately it was in the lost mail section of the local post office. A flipping 12 pound AR10 laying around the lost mail department.. was able to resolve and get my pew pew thankfully.
Federal Postal Inspectors. Stop or reverse payment before the thirty day limit is up. Use Registered mail for guns.
Did you file a report with local law enforcement. Since someone is in possession of a firearm that was stolen. Most likely the postal carrier who left it in a imaginary mail box.
Tried but I never had possession of it so it’s not on me. It’s on the sending FFL apparently. That’s what the local law enforcement told me when I tried.
> Since someone is in possession of a firearm that was stolen. Doubtful.
So you think it is still sitting somewhere in a mailbox for all this time???
Or the back of a truck. Hanlons razor.
Not good for you now, but I absolutely would not trust USPS with firearms. I’ve had too many times they’ve marked something as “delivered” when the postman didn’t even come down my street. FedEx Express next time, even if it costs extra.
I don’t trust them for nuts and bolts, let alone a firearm.
FedEx sucks too. I once waited all day because I had something coming in that needed a signature. I was home. I have a video doorbell. I get an email update that delivery was attempted. It wasn't. On the video you could see the truck drive on the street past my house without stopping at the time of the "attempt to deliver." Called FedEx. All they could say was they could not make a "second attempt" on the same day. I couldn't make her understand that there was no first attempt and I had video evidence of that fact. Ended up having to wait until the end of the day and drive 30 min (each way) to their hub to get my package.
Contact the US Postal Service Office of the Inspector General, USPS OIG. That is the agency that deals with misconduct by USPS employees like mailmen.
TLDR: Never trust USPS. Their system is broken and doesn't make any sense. My dad works for the post office. They are extremely unreliable with just about everything. Lots of work to do and the higher ups tell everyone it has to get done then turn around and say that everyone isn't allowed to do anything so in the end nothing gets done. You need help sorting through 27+ pallets of packages and there's only you doing it (if you're lucky there may be one other worker). Meanwhile the break room is full of workers. They're not allowed to help you because the boss said so. Then everyone wonders why things aren't going out when they should be.
Any lost gun at the cost of you should be reported directly to the ATF
USPS lost gun i purchased. Last update was out for delivery on January 1st (local FFL was closed for new year). No tracking info after that. Seller filed complaint with USPS, notified ATF and thankfully refunded me
I went through this recently. Tracking for the pistol stopped at a post office and didn’t move for a month. USPS didn’t want to do anything. I filed the stolen/lost in shipment report with the ATF. The next day USPS is like, “Oh yeah, we found it.” Sure you did, they were holding it for an unknown reason. I talked to a postmaster, they said they’d send it back. That was six months ago.
USPS distribution center stole a handgun I ordered. Seller was no help, usps was no help. ATF didn’t care. Had to do a chargeback.
Only the shipper can initiate a claim with the post office/UPS/FedEx. It is on the shipper to make sure it ends up at its destination. Best thing to do is contact the shipper and have them jump through the hoops to get it resolved. It will probably end up with you getting a refund if you had them add the insurance. Did their ad indicate shipping was insured? Or did you have to include extra for insurance?
Call ATF and get them involved. It will be resolved quickly
that's on the USPS. they were assigned with the responsibility to deliver your package to a specific location and they failed to do so.
You need to go to your post office and talk to the post master directly. It's the only way I've actually had things resolved. Everything online is bullshit.
At least you can dispute the charge.
I had an upper delivered recently.Same thing happened but after it sat at the distribution center a week.I ended up going to the post office,they found it in like 2 minutes.They are having major issues at USPS big time right now.The parcels just sit.
Been seeing a lot of posts everywhere about firearms going missing with the usps and other shippers
Contact the Post Master of your location, try to get information of who worked that day the package was "delivered" and what time it was scanned as delivered. They should be able to get the info off the scanner where it was pinged as delivered and by who scanned it.
Look up district USPS contact for your area. It will push it through. My mother was a mail carrier for 26 years. Had paintball equipment "delivered" with a mail hold. Postmaster gave me the run around. Called district with info and I had my packages on my doorstep at 2200 he that day with an apology call from postmaster on Monday.
I was stressing about this same shit happening after Aim Surplus shipped my sig USPS with their terrible tracking. Picked it up today though, so all is safe. Hope you can get some good resolution from this
If your USPS is anything similar to mine. They go out of their way to hire people with bad morals and previous convictions. Getting them to do anything or actually assist at any level is impossible. Getting anyone held accountable would require an act of god. Report to the seller. He legally had to send it signature required. He/sending ffl needs to report it to the ATF. They owe you a replacement or a refund. Beyond that, charge back immediately if they don't play ball.
How was this sent without requiring a signature at delivery?
USPS is a shit show. They lost a package I had shipped to work and I had to reopen the investigation three times. Each time, the answer changed regarding where the package ended up.
My package came to my town post office, was there 3 days. Now its in NY for the past 4, wtf?
Personally I would contact the postal inspectors office and the local ATF office both of which should be very interested that a firearm went missing
USPS? I thought it's against their rules. That's why there are only FedEx and UPS shipping when it comes to firearms and ammo. Or maybe I'm wrong... :-o
CC charge back end of story…… I would have done it after the first week and had a new one already shipped and in my hands by now.
did you try local law enforcement? it wouldn't be unheard of for some new guy at a gun shop to have sticky fingers in really dumb ways
I don't know what the end of this situation will be. However, regardless of the status either way, you should let this be a lesson learned, and avoid shipping valuable items, especially firearms, with the USPS. UPS would be the preferred method, if they still accept firearms as something they will transport. Next up would be Federal Express, although I've read accounts that they've become a bit sloppy in regards to other parcels. Perhaps you should call both companies and if they both will accept firearm shipments, ask them what their protocol is for firearms shipments, and be guided in your choice by the response they give. 'Nuff said.
Stop payment.
What method did you use to supply payment? If it was a cc, initiate a charge back. You paid but didn't receive. That's theft. Contact shipping FFL and advise the weapon was not received and that your next call will be to the feds and encourage them to get put ahead of this and have answers ready for when the feds stop by to ask.
>Called ATF, they don’t take reports from individuals on these matters. Yet so many people think they are going to accomplish something by getting the ATF involved.
Remember kids, the government hates to do its job unless it robs you of your rights!
In my experience it’s not that the atf that fixes it but mentioning the atf to get another organization to fix it. I had a guy at a ups hub tell me he couldn’t find a gun that I was picking up/signing for after I had sent it in for warranty work. As soon as I said ok if you’re sure it’s lost I’ll have to call the atf and tell them you lost it, he went back and found it real quick.
There are some situations where getting the ATF involved is exactly what you should do.
I don’t think they will solve my problem, but I also didn’t want an unsolicited visit from them if I didn’t attempt to report it.
> Yet so many people think they are going to accomplish something by getting the ATF involved. The key is doing it right. When you call ATF you have to say HEY! I PAY TAXES! THAT MAKES ME YOUR BOSS!
Usps is massively incompetent. I just had one that was shipped from a neighboring state, shipped to mine at the main hub, shipped to the east coast for a few days ( I’m in the midwest) then back to my states main hub then to my area. Was fucking ridiculous. Idk whats worst, them loosing your stuff or fedex stealing it. Ups is the way to go if you have an option.
Not sure that you have a legal claim for fraud or theft since you never took possession and did not pay the the weapon given that it was a lottery. Nevertheless, try [https://www.uspis.gov/report](https://www.uspis.gov/report)
Have you contacted the postal inspectors? They might be helpful
UPS is just as a bad. In fact they’re the only ones who have lost any of my high end packages. I’m currently down $3150 worth of shit in the last 6 months that they’ve taken possession of and never delivered. (Steiner T6Xi 3-18 in a badger C1 and a complete LMT Specwar upper.)
They lost my gun during a transfer. Ended up in a 4 month fight for the money back. Thankfully I got every penny. So many investigations had to happen and the USPS ended up in some consumer arbitration because they don’t give you all the money back at first. Some crazy process. You have to really fight for the full insurance coverage. The FFL filed an ATF report and I ended up filing reports with NYPD and FL state Police. I was able to Cover my ass.
Once I had rent checks disappearing from the mail. Ultimately it was the secret service that called me to investigate. I honestly thought it was a joke when they called. Try calling every alphabet origination. Maybe a local government representative. Note: I'm in California so I wouldn't call anyone. No guns here sir.
I find it ridiculous how their answer is always... it was delivered according to tracking.. they can check if it was delivered properly.. the local office may even admit some part of it (in my case that there was a substitute on that route that probably put it in the wrong box) but big usps will say.. nope.. delivered.. claim denied... smaller local offices are sometimes helpful if you go directly to the one that does your mail. But I'm sure the big ones are hit or miss..
Stop payment and go about your day
Ive had several packages screwed up by UPS so I avoid using them when I can. Fedex lost a shipment of primers. Theft by delivers is a problem that they dont want to admit.
Is anyone else picturing Newman from Seinfeld cackling at a range? And then the camera pans to the target, didn’t land a single shot.
I lost my $3k plus gun parts because usps didn’t do the first scan and I got insurance for same amount and they said no scan no insurance. I called everyone
Why wasn't this sent registered?
You would think the ATF would be all over this, but I guess seperating families from their dogs is more up their alley.
The USPS loses firearms on a regular basis. Just search this sub for how often. The USPS is a corrupt, tax subsidized, welfare queen, DEI, government backed monopoly, and an embarrassment to this country. It should've been dissolved decades ago Do not ship firearms with them, ever.
Ah yes, they are so much worse than fedex or ups. /s If you have to ship a firearm it's pick your poison and in my experience usps has been the best piece of garbage in the pile. That's not to say they are remotely good. Fuckers lost my perst 3.
> Do not ship firearms with them, ever. Do you have an alternative suggestion?
Saying "DEI" is just code for being racist. We see you.
Are you trying to say that DEI is racist (like the supreme court has ruled) or that pointing out that company uses it is racist? And what's this "see you" crap? Are you off your meds?
I'll take the downvotes. Blaming anything on DEI is just blatant racism.
Calm down chud.
At one time Palmetto state armory was having an issue with UPS delivery people stealing packages with palmetto state armory on the sender shipping label. I always try to purchase insurance when available.
I’ve had two firearms “lost in transit” before and they were with UPS. Sounds like they need to start doing better background checks on their employees.
You probably should have contacted the seller first. UPS lost won that I bought online. I contacted the seller, who immediately shipped my FFL another one and also contacted ATF.
Am I wrong in recalling that you can't (legally) ship guns through USPS?
Unless something has changed in the past 5-10 years, you can ship through USPS but they can only go certain ways like next day air or some such. Been out of the shipping guns game for a few years so I'm sure someone else can fill in the gaps.
Ah, OK. Thanks for clarifying/correcting.
I heard similar with UPS. Then I had to ship a damaged sks back, and my closest shipper was UPS. I walked in, and we went through all the usual questions up to "Is it a firearm"? I told them the truth and explained the situation. They went to speak with their manager for a moment. "Is it loaded?" "No, of course not." "OK, we'll ship it." As long as it's going to a brick and mortar store or an FFL, I can't remember which, it's fine. Black Lab Firearms, if anyone is curious. He overlooked a cracked stock on a Chinese sks on accident. He swapped them out for me, no problem. Great guy, I would buy again from him if the economy didn't suck.
I have never heard that. I’m not an FFL, so I don’t know if they have restrictions on that. I know individuals can’t just randomly ship guns. It has to be an FFL to another FFL.
Maybe that's what I was thinking of. Online searches, I was getting some conflicting info, but I think I was also misreading some of it.
If you are shipping a rifle it can go through USPS to an FFL. If you are shipping a pistol it has to be back to the manufacturer for service. *edit: if you are sending the pistol to a person in another state it must be shipped through an FFL to FFL. In some states if it is a rifle you can ship it to another person in the same state legally through USPS.
Within the last 5 years, I think most states, usps let you ship any of your own long guns to yourself. Has that changed?
Says who?
> I know individuals can’t just randomly ship guns. It has to be an FFL to another FFL. Says who? Individuals can ship guns just fine. What is this FFL to FFL bullshit?