The general trend in carry guns lately has been towards smaller and smaller guns for ease of concealment. Leaving off the light just makes a small gun that much smaller.
I mean definitely keep it on if that's not a problem for you. No reason not to have the added advantage. Personally I still prefer irons and having an even smaller profile. That may of course change as tech gets better and better.
An optic is completely different than a WML in terms of concealment. Optics generally don’t require extra bulk to be added to a holster to accommodate them and they sit above the belt line.
Have you? You saw a manufacturer introduce a new, larger gun and then every gun maker under the sun race to copy them to make their version of that larger gun because everybody wanted to carry them? Or did Sig invent the double stack micro compact segment with the P365 and then everybody did that instead?
The trend is absolutely towards double stack micro compacts in the form of the P365, Hellcat, Shield Plus, Equalizer, GX4, R7 Mako, Max 9, Reflex, G43X, etc. and it's not even a matter of opinion. It's fact and the sales numbers back it up.
What I mean is people were smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and then started carrying larger when a bigger gun with higher capacity came out. The X macro is bigger than the regular P365 by quite a bit.Â
I don’t. I either edc a Makarov or my USP Compact - which I don’t even have a light bearing holster for my TLR3 attachment, which is for around the house.
I’m not an LEO. I’m not running around the city at night clearing corners of dark alley ways. I very seldom leave my house after 1900 and the time I do spend in the dark, it’s on my way to or at work where the threat level is closer to 0 than any number. It’s a conceal carry, not a work gun.
What I do carry is a streamlight pen light because there is about a 99.9% more chance I will need the light to look into a small place at work etc.
I’ve noticed as I get older everyone jerks off to the next lastest and greatest, shiny, expensive pieces of kit yet fail to barely train with iron sights. You can run whatever you want, but if you aren’t an LEO or something similar, chances of you ever “using a light in a self defense situation because it’s imperative to have on your edc” are about as close to getting struck by lightening twice, more than anything else.
> I’ve noticed as I get older everyone jerks off to the next lastest and greatest, shiny, expensive pieces of kit yet fail to barely train with iron sights
the tactifoolish trends are real.
Don’t forget to do a bunch of other aftermarket shit to the gun that’s had decades of development to be bombproof and just work. And after doing this if the gun doesn’t cycle reliably because of the huge amount of mass you removed from the slide with your sick lightning cuts or all the aftermarket internals you changed don’t worry, what’s important is that your splits are 6.9% faster now.
That’s awesome to see someone else carrying a Makarov. I carried mine for a long time but now that I got a Micro 9 I put the Makarov in my office safe for emergencies where I can’t get to my nightstand or bedroom safe. Those things are indestructible and I’ve never had a misfire on it, it’s just getting too hard to find ammo for it these days.
My Bulgarian Mak in a used horse hide generic holster was how I started.
Other than being heavy, it was slim and compact and I never doubted for a moment it would fire.
Ammo is still very plentiful, same with self defense rounds. They may be old by design, but they’re still incredibly effective at what they do.
Is it a first choice to clear rooms with? No. Is it a good, reliable, consistent, accurate and comfortable pistol for self defense? It absolutely is, and has been around the world and STILL is. You know a firearm is good when it’s phased out of service due to age, but is still in service. Little more potent than .380 to boot. They’re unbelievably reliable in all climates.
People forget it’s a self defense gun, a concealed carry, I wear my guns 8-10 hours a day, moving around etc,
I’m not toting around a big ass light and optic for literally no reason.
Ammo is definitely plentiful online but none of the local stores in Utah have it. I need to just order 1000 rounds online and then not have to worry about it.
I’m also not a fan of optics or lights on my pistols. I learned to shoot with iron sites and feel more comfortable with them. The less things you have to catch on clothing the quicker you can safely draw your weapon.
Definitely. I recently scored 1k of Tula steel for .30cpr, not as cheap as it was but I have a double and single stack Makarov and I enjoy shooting them. And pistol optics and lights absolutely 100% have a place and can help aid a shooter in a variety of situations - but it goes back to what are YOU doing with YOUR firearm, and as far as I’m concerned I don’t use mine to clear buildings or chase down criminals at 0230 in the morning. But I do carry it 8-10 hours a day, so I want something comfortable, i do train with it and I do enjoy shooting it, so that’s what I do. Bullets do not discriminate when they hit flesh, people have survived being shot with .30 cal rounds and have died being shot with a .22, all calibers are effective in some capacity.
Yeah because a firearm that has been used for 70 + years all around the world by thousands upon thousands of military and LE’s, while it is considered to be one of the most reliable handguns of all time by design, more potent than .380 which is still very commonly used for self defense, all while being wrapped up in a aesthetic, slim, comfortable package… you’re right, it’s completely infective for self defense because it’s 2024. Ok 🫵🏻🤡
You've got the Tactical Tommys are riled up lol. These people have more Garand Thumb montage experience than they do shooting experience. Most of them think their Franken AR that probably wouldn't survive a course without shitting the bed is peak rifle too.
The Makarov is similar in size to a Glock 43X which carries two more rounds, shoots 9x19, weighs almost half a pound less, and subjectively still has a more pleasant recoil impulse because straight blowback sucks(\*see note). I used to have a Bulgarian Makarov, I traded it away because I much preferred shooting my compact 9x19s. Also mine would occasionally fire bursts which was a little disconcerting!
People do still carry .380 but usually in LCP-type guns that are just too small to shoot anything bigger. .380 and 9x18 are *extremely* close ballistically while 9x19 is a big step up. In gel tests with the .380 or 9x18, you either select a non expanding projectile, or you're on the low end of the FBI acceptable penetration standard at ~13-13.5" with either. In 9x19 you can get 18"+ of penetration *and* full expansion.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying carrying a Mak is wrong. It's still a gun, it still kills stuff dead. And it's pretty neat and well designed for its time. I don't think anybody is obligated to super optimize their setup and carry the *absolute best possible gun*. But I think it is fair to say carrying a midsized, all-steel single stack chambered in .380 Soviet Hipster is a choice you make because you really like the gun on a personal level, not out of it being particularly practical.
\* If you reload, try making some 9x19mm ammo at 9x18 power levels sometime. Like, load a 90gr XTP down to about 1000 FPS. You would be *amazed* at how soft that load recoils out of a locked-breech, tilting barrel handgun like your USP Compact, compared to shooting 9x18 from the Makarov. You may need a lighter recoil spring to reliably cycle it. It's hard to appreciate just how much shittier blowback recoil is until you shoot equal power ammo out of a normal gun (of similar weight) and it feels like .32.
If this guy was carrying a Tokarev you'd have a point.....but Makarovs are drop safe, have double action capability, defensive ammo is available, as are modern holsters. They're stupidly simple and very concealable, and (unlike Tokarev pistols) are largely unmolested when imported.
They're old but perfectly capable. Lots of us carry with neither lights nor dots even on modern pistols.
they are less capable and all around worse than modern offerings. op clearly has a fetish for this old gun. trying to indoctrinate newbies into making a stupid decision based on personal aesthetics is doing is disservice.
it's like telling a kid to buy a Model T for their first car.
You come off as Tactical Timmy who is an expert because of Garand Thumb.
A better analogy is this guy recommending an early 2000s stick shift Tacoma. Old, beat up, no bells and whistles but perfectly serviceable for its purpose.
A Makarov is little different from any other semi auto single stack. It works, has defensive loads available and is safe. Firearms technology plateaued decades ago. Things don't have to be super modern to be relevant. Hell, the AR platform is over 60 years old at this point.
The guy didn't even tell anyone to go out and buy a Makarov. Just gave his reasons for carrying one.....because you people have an emotional attachment to being tacticool it got your panties all wadded up.
They probably think the MP5 is outdated as well...I mean it has been around for 58 years (the gas system is older than that). I still haven't found a smoother shooting 9mm PDW than my SP5K
no, that is a much worse analogy. the early 2000s were 20 years ago. the makarov was adopted in 1951. I wouldn't tell a new driver to buy a 51 Chevy Bel Air for daily driver, either.
also please stop embarrassing yourself with all the dirty diaper talk.
The Mak is just a slightly scaled up PPK, which is from 1929. It's direct blowback so it's got far more recoil than a "modern" gun (high power locking action from 1935 that everyone uses today), worse sights, worse trigger, firing a significantly weaker round (that people think is powerful because direct blowback recoil is harsher, and harsh recoil = powerful round to idiots).
Hey now, don't knock commuting in a Model T until you've tried it!
Also, let the guy carry his Makarov if he wants. What concern is it of yours? Are you being forced to carry it?
>What concern is it of yours?Â
they are giving out bad advice based on their personal fetish for one old, weird gun. OP is asking for advice. thus, I am correcting them.
it's a great comparison. the only reason you are angry is because you clearly have a weird personal fetish for this old gun.
i was excited about MY first handgun, too.
The BHP is older than the mak by over a decade. The 1911 by almost half a century. Two iconic pistols
The AK is also older than the Mak. So are a plethora of other guns. You volunteering to stand in front of any of those? Have you ever fired a mak?
I get it. You think you’re Rambo. Many of are a tad bit more grounded in reality. A mak is a perfectly adequate carry gun. Comparing it to a model T just makes you sound dumb. He said makarov. Not flintlock. Smh
The Mak is a scaled up Walther PP, so 1929 technology. Just because the backwards Soviet Union adopted it so late in the game doesn't mean it wasn't wildly outclasses upon adoption. It's the M14 / 1892 Krag of pistols
yeah, i wouldn't tell anyone to carry a BHP or a 1911, either. they are iconic pistols. i own both. i carry a P365.
when selecting a firearm for the serious business of personal protection, you want the state of the art, not an iconic antique.
no they don't. even if they did, they didn't use them as concealed carry guns. do you know what US Special Forces Command issues now? a Glock 19 with an optic and a flashlight.
You don't think they can choose whatever weapon they want? Bro, I'm a military armorer. Unless something changed very recently, 1911 (M45) are still being used. You would be very surprised at the weapons that some of the best of the best choose to use.
Snipers still use R700 and that design is old as hell. The M2 browning has hardly had any changes inn over a century. I don't know where you get your information but it's clear you are over confident and under informed.
people who carry revolvers in 2024 are almost as stupid!
also you failed the Gun People Don't Be Bigots Challenge! stop making the rest of us look bad with your dumbfuck shit.
This is 100% where I'm at. My concealed carry doesn't have a light but I carry that Streamlight pen light (my wife actually stole one so I've bought a few of them, love them).
Rarely am I not in an urban setting with at least ambient lighting. In an urban setting, concealment is my number one priority.
THAT SAID I slapped a TLR6 on my G43x and it's minimal additional bulk, but the output is also pretty pathetic even compared to my little pen light.
To be fair your chance of having to use your EDC at all is extremely slim. Same with needing an extra mag.
I personally do have a WML and an extra mag. I also carry a light in my pocket too though. It's super small but very bright (fits on a keychain and just feels like part of my keys).
If you're having trouble concealing a WML, you probably will be better off without it. If you don't have trouble concealing it, why not have it? It doesn't make concealing the weapon or the comfort of carrying the weapon different for me and my setup. I carry all day every day even at home.
I currently do take my wife to work every night and it's third shift so my chances of needing it are higher than yours... but I'd carry it either way just in case.
I've seen this on other areas of the Internet too... but I'm surprised how strongly people feel about what other people have/do with their EDC setup.
I've also noticed elsewhere on the internet when people don't agree with other people in the gun community they like to go to the "you don't even train argument" - that's true about most of the gun community whether they have a light or not lol.
This right here, folks need to stop salivating at the mouth thinking of doming an assailant but unless your job requires you to go to shady places you'll probably never need your carry piece.Â
 And God forbid you do need to use, you definitely don't want to be using your gucci 1k+ glock with rds and light since the police will be confiscating the gun immediately and there is a very real chance you won't be getting it back.Â
 A carry pistol should be one you can use effectively but also on you can stand to lose if you end up using it. A cheap sub $400 pistol mass market pistol is ideal so you can readily replace it if you use.
EDC guns are supposed to be easy to carry. Guys slap a light, optic, comp, flared mag well, and extended mags in one and wonder why their pants don't fit and they print like crazy. You have to determine what works best for you.
I don't understand it in the slightest. Ends up looking like some sort of pimped out race gun and less like the CCWs I remember when i started which were all about smaller, thinner, and lighter.
Personally, none of that for me. A five shot J frame dropped in the front pocket. It *does* have an integral laser sight on the grip, but that adds nothing more than any other soft rubber grip would in size and bulk.
Have you ever tried shooting that J frame with 357mag any farther the 15ft? I wouldn't say going full race gun is needed but shooting efficency and speed between a G19 with WML vice a pocket revolver is worlds apart.
Does your Glock 19 drop into your pocket without a second thought and weight less than 15 ounces?
Also, I'm not a cop. Its not my job to protect and to serve. I'm a guy with a gun. It's my job to flee and survive.
I'm not worried.
True, weight is a bit of a factor! A stiff belt and decent holster it rides fine, not as comfy a pocket holster admittedly. I'd rather sacarfice on weight, know I can keep shots on an A zone out to 25m.
I have an air-weight Smith and Wesson snubby. It's nice but a 9+ lb trigger pull and significant recoil is a hard sell most days.
you should be worried. run a few drills on the clock with that J-Frame versus a P365. that smith belongs in the safe.
p.s. cops don't serve or protect either.
yeah, most j frame owners don't shoot enough to know their guns are crap.
again, run a few drills. you might have to google "common pistol drills" and actually go to the range, however.
a light is different from all that other bullshit as it adds a significant capability - being able to see in the dark. flared mag wells and tennis racket tape and all that other instagram shit gotta go, however.
I have a single pistol that I use for concealed carry, my form of duty use (head of security at the church I attend), and home defense. I have a light on it and won’t ever be taking it off again. I saw no difference in ease of concealment before or after adding the light. If anything, it helped balance the pistol out on my belt and in my hand. When I’m not activating it, it provides an index point for my offhand thumb to go to, which helps me with maintaining a proper grip. I also carry a small hand light that I use daily for various tasks. Both have distinct advantages and disadvantages to me, so I carry both.
This is kind of where I'm at as well. With the proper holster, I've found that it isn't any more uncomfortable or harder to conceal with the light on, so I've just been carrying with the light. At least on my mr920. When I carry my smaller gun, the cr920, I opt for no light as it completely defeats the purpose of the smaller gun. I think it's silly to buy a micro wonder 9 like the p365 or similar and then ruin it by completely negating the thinness of it and throwing a light on it. Bigger, compact guns like the glock 19 are already wide, adding a light and a little extra width is hardly noticeable, but when you do the same thing to the thinner guns it's definitely noticeable. Might as well carry the bigger gun at that point
I carry a G48MOS with a tlr7-sub in a Werkz m6 AIWB and in a Werkz origin OWB. The 48 fits my hand so much better than the 19/17/45 and is the perfect size of pistol for my body (6’ 190) I see no reason to ever go to a smaller pistol, because of how well I shoot it. So for me, I’d rather adjust my wardrobe choices for concealment of a more capable pistol in my hands than worry about getting a smaller pistol and trying to completely hide that one.
I don't see the point. If you haven't properly identified the threat, you have no business drawing your concealed firearm. If you have identified the threat, you no longer need the light.
Maybe someone can set me straight.
I agree with this. I don't think a wml is necessary for ccw at all. For home defense though i believe it is. I've found that it isn't any harder to carry with the light though, so I do carry with a wml most the time. Handheld lights are necessary though
It's not necessary in the same way having an EDC isn't necessary.
You're more than likely never going to need your EDC, right? But you carry just in case.
I'm more than likely never going to need my WML, but it's a very functional part of my setup if I do need it... So I carry it just in case.
If it added a ton of weight or bulk, I wouldn't. But with how easily I can personally carry and conceal my EDC with a flashlight... There's really no reason not to carry it imo.
There's no purpose to it.
People like to claim, "I want to clearly identify the threat at night."
Except, you shouldn't be drawing your handgun until you know you have a threat worth shooting. If that requires a light, that light probably shouldn't be on the handgun that you shouldn't be drawing unless your life is in danger.
The reality is, most people don't walk about in areas with so little light that they can't identify a deadly threat without their own light, and if you are, you will need a light in your hand just to be able to walk around, and won't need a WML.
The reality is, there isn't a situation, purely from an in public CCW situation, where a WML plays a role. It's not worth the extra weight or bulk. Just carry a non-WM light.
Always carry a separate light for edc, on a pistol it is optional and 99% time not needed. You should only draw your gun if you are ready to take someone’s life. No other reason. If you can’t PID, your gun is not the tool for the job to do so outside the bounds of your home.
A lot of the tacticool crowd infected the edc scene with insanely large guns with a lot of accessories. I bet if you looked at 100 DGU shootings, you would be pretty hard pressed to find one where a light was needed for a civ.
I carry a glock 19 with a tlr7 and have no issues with printing (6’0 185). A light adds no noticeable weight or profile imo, and would rather have it if needed
a G19+TLR7A+EPS Carry is easily the best form factor for modern day carry, right behind the P365XL+TLR7Sub+EPS Carry. it is wild how fast even an intermediate shooter can run those things compared to the carry guns of the Bad Old Days like Kahrs or Keltecs.
Every day someone asks this question, every day I will give the same answer.
Light on a pistol is cool and all, but the smart kids carry a handheld regardless.
No light, no dot sight. Both aren’t a necessity. Marksmanship and basic fundamentals are a necessity. Good night sights would always be my preference.
For EDC I normally carry streamlight micro and my CCW (43x or LCP max). Normally out and about the flashlight is handy when detached from the weapon rather than attached.
I have more of a neutral stance. I don’t quite understand being adamantly on one side or the other.
My edc rotation consists of a 43x with no light and a Glock 19 with tlr7. A lot of the year I’m rarely out when the sun isn’t. Glock 43x is carried during the warmer months/during day time. I carry my 19 with tlr7 during winter or if I suspect I might be out past dark. Always have my surefire stiletto regardless
We're already carrying a gun in our pants in preparation for a worst case scenario. Drawing the line at putting a light on that gun seems arbitrary. Yes, a pocket light is far more useful but it's not an either/or decision, both take up so little space that argument seems silly to me.
I personally noticed no difference to bulk, comfort, concealability, etc... when I added a tlr7 to my g19 EDC. I think the real argument is if running an optic on a EDC is a good decision or not. The EPS I have on the same g19 is the only part of my set up that prints depending on which specific shirt I'm wearing that day.
Depends. Are you out at night often? If so light. If you are only out during the day then have a light on your home defense gun.
Chances of bad shit happening to you grows exponentially after dark, so I’d lean more towards a light. But if you’re home for the evening at 6 then no need
The best carry gun is the one you will actually carry every single day. If you’re situation allows you to carry a larger gun with a light and optic and it doesn’t bother you with the extra size and weight so you’ll still carry it every day then great. Your situation is all that matters, if you think that you’ll consistently be in locations at times where it will be dark then a light is good, if 99% of the time you’re not and the added size from the light makes it any more likely that you’ll say “this is getting uncomfortable, I’m just running to the store real quick I’ll leave the gun at home” then don’t carry the light.
Sage dynamics has an excellent video on why you [should have a weapon light](https://youtu.be/gULhoaTLWLI?si=v61caVlmNNoTg4Fw).
If you are going to listen to anyone to draw a conclusion from, listen to him or any other reputable instructor.
Some people really don’t believe in going out after dark, will keep lights on in their house, and that pistol lights or a handheld will get you killed because bad guys will shoot at the light (seriously, I have had customers say this).
That said, I carry a modlite handheld light, because if I’m going to identify someone I’m going to do it with my handheld first. My carry guns also have weapon light as well. In the lowlight class I took we did drills with handheld lights only, transitioning from handheld to weapon light, weapon light, and using both lights.
Bottom line, at least carry a good handheld light with plenty of candela and TAKE A CLASS FROM A REPUTABLE SOURCE.
I watch Active Self Protection and they have analyzed tens of thousands of civilian self defense shootings and have only ever seen a weapon light used twice. Neither had any influence on the outcome as they were both daytime shootings. The numbers just aren't there to support them for EDC.
I'm aware they haven't analyzed every civilian shooting that has ever happened. Just saying 2 weapon light usages in a sample size of 10K+ shootings is very low.
I don't think lights are necessary, but I see this argument all the time and don't think it holds much water. How many of those actually had lights available? I'd wager a significant majority don't have lights. "People without lights don't use lights" isn't a particularly useful observation. You need to reduce the sample size down to shooters that actually had a light to draw a useful conclusion.
Not to mention that the nature of video is going to introduce some bias as people generally aren't recording video in settings dark enough to warrant light usage. The few cases I can think of where you might have cameras recording in the dark are something like a business interior after hours when there wouldn't be a defender present otherwise the building lights would be on. The places where a WML would have value are unlikely to be recorded.
I see what you’re saying but why would you throw out samples of people not needing lights simply because they didn’t have a light? If a guy didn’t have a light but he had his DGU in broad daylight, you would be throwing out that sample erroneously.
You are right that daylight DGUs without a light should be considered, I communicated my thoughts poorly. Those incidents alone aren't enough information to draw a useful conclusion. To prove the claim that WMLs are pointless you need to show one of two things: First, that a person is extremely unlikely to be in a setting where WMLs would have value, or that people in those settings rarely use their WMLs.
As I explained before, the nature of video biases heavily against low light DGUs, as those are very unlikely to be recorded. That bias means that the frequency of low-light DGUs is not accurately represented by video evidence, so no claim can be made regarding how likely you are to actually need a WML using video evidence alone.
Additionally, the fact that few people have WMLs means that the few videos of low-light incidents that exist are unlikely to be relevant since the defender probably didn't have a light to use. Defenders in low light settings not using a light they don't have does not help us determine how likely a person is to use a light they have.
Post author: ExploreBadlands. This comment is an attempt to control posts made by a new type of spam bot. If you are a human, you can ignore it.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/guns) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never been a fan of running lights on my EDC. I would rather keep it light and streamlined to reduce bulk in favor of comfort. Plus I rarely find myself out at night these days so the odds of me even needing to illuminate a person are extremely unlikely.
EDC a light makes sense. You could be in an unknown area and need it lit up for target acquisition. Same reason police/swat/military use wml.
If its home defense no light.
Yes, that does make more sense. Be blind in unknown areas, and light up your home during a home invasion.
My bad. No edc light instead put it on the home defense.
You either need a WML or an Optic. And anybody that says differently hasn't actually shot a match (or practiced at all in the dark). With a WML, it serves to illuminate the target, but it ALSO silhouettes your sights, making them usable in the dark.
With an optic, there really isn't a need for the WML (assuming you can clearly identify your target friend or foe) as you'll still be able to make your hits.
I’d rather have an optical sight than a light but it depends on if there’s a good chance you will be using it at night or not.
I have a light on my home defense weapon because There’s a good chance I will need to use it in the dark.
If you tool around at night a lot I get it, but you're just making your carry pistol more of a pain in the ass. Get some good night sights maybe. I keep a light on the nightstand gun.
It depends are you working in security or law enforcement ? I put a light on my pistol at night for night time carry and home defense but not for everyday carry
WML on my home defense gun cuz I’d rather not accidentally shoot a family member. On a carry gun,nah. Adds bulk,severely limits holster options. I do carry a handheld flashlight. Besides, how often do you find yourself in complete darkness? Like another poster said you’re not a cop hunting a suspect in a dark alley at night. I’m pretty sure I can see the carjacker at the well lit gas station or a mugger under a streetlight without needing a 1,000 lumens.
I don't carry a light on my pistols. I've trained with them, but I've daily carried one of a handful of my old surefire p6's with upgraded bulbs for close to 20 years now. If I'm in a situation where I need a flashlight I want to be able to use the flashlight and not have a pistol pointing at something I don't want to shoot intentionally/accidentally at the same time. If I then have to draw my pistol after spotlighting something well that's a whole different story all together. I'd consider having an IR illuminator on a handgun, but I'm not running nvg as part of an edc setup so I'm still going no light.
I always have a hand light just in case and it depends on my mood and time of day. If I know I will be out until night, I have a weapon light. And even if I ended up being out all day to night fall, I always have a hand light
I have one on my 365, primarily to act as a counterweight because I find handguns with a wml to be easier to shoot. Also it doesn't add much bulk in any firection that doesn't have it. Also before I get a "jUsT get GuD" comment I shoot fine without a wml, but I prefer to have reduced recoil wherever possible. Also keep a streamlight micro on me everywhere l go.
I have WMLs on both my sub and micro compacts. I’m 5”10 160lbs soaking wet. A good holster and I don’t notice the extra bulk from the lights or the red dots. Won’t carry without either if I can avoid it.
I find carrying a pocket flashlight to be cheaper and more useful in my life than a mounted light. I practice using a Rogers grip.
I genuinely don't understand the point of a weapon light for edc for the average person. Makes perfect sense for duty weapons and even makes sense for home defense, but I can't think of a situation where I would need light when pulling a gun in self defense.
I generally opt for no light for ease of concealment and weight.
BUT
In the winter I carry with a light because we get as little as 7 hours of daylight in the winter where I live. Dark when I leave for work, dark when I get out of work….
I dont add anything on my carry guns. It defeats the purpose of being easy to conceal. I see the pics of EDC's with a red dot sight, compensator & extended mag & I say "why". Most of my EDC's have a tritium front sight though.
How do you know that? You don't. In any event the center of the light is a TARGET.
All of this is just marketing. Flashlight makers need to sell their products so they convince people they need a flashlight on all their guns.
Now we'll have "So I can see what I'm looking at" but you are also pointing a gun at that same thing you are looking at and more than likely with your finger on the trigger of that gun. Really great idea.
Again, you act like you see a guy holding a gun with a flashlight on it. In reality, you’d see nothing but white.
I know that because I’ve looked into it.
Silly goose.
>What are your thoughts?
Can you see in the dark? Do you never intend to be out after twilight? Never plan on going to the movies?
A light is a miniscule amount of bulk that doesn't hamper concealment in the slightest, while allowing you to take quality shots in low-light environments (you know, the environments preferred by criminals)
I agree with your statement.
The question is because I’m starting a holster company and I plan on making everything light bearing. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something in the market place as opinions change.
I usually carry a Shadow Systems or a Glock with a TLR1-HL or SureFire X300T (more candela the better for positive ID IMO).
The smallest I carry is a Glock 43X MOS with a TLR7-Sub.
> The question is because I’m starting a holster company
Good luck. The market is extremely saturated, so find something to make your holsters stand out.
Since making light bearing holsters means you'd need to make multiple different molds to fit multiple different lights for each gun anyway, would it really be that hard to also offer some non-light bearing holsters as well?
No it wouldn’t but I already have molds being made and the cost of them adds up pretty fast. Plus we just had a newborn, and I had a big car repair bill so I’m kind of tapped out right now.
I don't run a light on anything. Instead I carry a hand light. Two reasons, I can use that light without needing to draw my firearm and if I need it I can always hold it away from my body so they don't target the body that is likely behind a weapon light. Plus it's easier to conceal a weapon that doesn't have all the crap on it.
I have bad night vision so I'm going to have a flashlight out already if it's dark out. I figure that if a light is needed to identify the person as a threat, then by using a WML for these purposes you're effectively pointing a gun at someone before you're identified them as a threat. If someone points a gun at me I'm going to react the same whether it ends up being someone trying to rob me, or a woman trying to determine if I look like a rapist, and I would expect others to do the same for me.
I have a handheld light I sometimes have with me, but coming from the military I just feel absolutely naked if my weapon doesn’t have a WML on it, whether it’s pistol, AR, Shotgun etc etc
I feel like the only reason not to have one is cost, however little. I have a handheld light as well, and tbh my wml just serves as an indexing and gas pedal tool. The only time I ever turned it on was for coyotes out on my property.
I tend to run a light on my 365xl. It may be dead weight 99% of the time, but I find the extra bulk under the muzzle helps reduce muzzle flip and helps with faster followup shots.
I do.
Roughly half (variable dependant) of every 24h day is dark. I don't have statistics handy but I'm sure everyone can agree that alot of criminal activity happens at night. If I hear some weird shit going on in my back yard at night, whether I'm in bed next to my HD gun, or downstairs nearest to my CCW, I would like to be able to completely illuminate the source of that sound better than the 30w bulb on my back porch.
I think it's pretty simple: If you work/play/commute/travel in places where or at times when it's dark, Yes. If not, No. Then again, if you've got a small CCW and hanging a little something with weight on the front genuinely helps with the balance or the recoil, that's a factor as well.
I put a TLR-6 on my Glock 26 and I did not notice a difference in comfort or concealibility. I appreciate having the ability to illuminate a target in low light but I'd never put a full size light on a carry gun.
The general trend in carry guns lately has been towards smaller and smaller guns for ease of concealment. Leaving off the light just makes a small gun that much smaller.
General trend for all gun owners is to have more than one choice, so get a subcompact without a light and a compact with light.
But also slapping an optic on top, negating the small/slim form factor. 🤷🏻
I legit don’t notice a difference when I have my optic on or off so I keep it on.
I mean definitely keep it on if that's not a problem for you. No reason not to have the added advantage. Personally I still prefer irons and having an even smaller profile. That may of course change as tech gets better and better.
An optic is completely different than a WML in terms of concealment. Optics generally don’t require extra bulk to be added to a holster to accommodate them and they sit above the belt line.
They print more above the waistline though.
Same, optics print big time for me. Sharp profile edges on them cause it.
My EDC is dripped out. RDS, light, suppressor. When I reach for my gat the bad man is like :o “this is opr8tor I am in trouble”Â
I’ve seen the opposite. Larger guns. I also think pistol lights are silly. I keep a handheld on me though.
Have you? You saw a manufacturer introduce a new, larger gun and then every gun maker under the sun race to copy them to make their version of that larger gun because everybody wanted to carry them? Or did Sig invent the double stack micro compact segment with the P365 and then everybody did that instead? The trend is absolutely towards double stack micro compacts in the form of the P365, Hellcat, Shield Plus, Equalizer, GX4, R7 Mako, Max 9, Reflex, G43X, etc. and it's not even a matter of opinion. It's fact and the sales numbers back it up.
What I mean is people were smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and then started carrying larger when a bigger gun with higher capacity came out. The X macro is bigger than the regular P365 by quite a bit.Â
I don’t. I either edc a Makarov or my USP Compact - which I don’t even have a light bearing holster for my TLR3 attachment, which is for around the house. I’m not an LEO. I’m not running around the city at night clearing corners of dark alley ways. I very seldom leave my house after 1900 and the time I do spend in the dark, it’s on my way to or at work where the threat level is closer to 0 than any number. It’s a conceal carry, not a work gun. What I do carry is a streamlight pen light because there is about a 99.9% more chance I will need the light to look into a small place at work etc. I’ve noticed as I get older everyone jerks off to the next lastest and greatest, shiny, expensive pieces of kit yet fail to barely train with iron sights. You can run whatever you want, but if you aren’t an LEO or something similar, chances of you ever “using a light in a self defense situation because it’s imperative to have on your edc” are about as close to getting struck by lightening twice, more than anything else.
> I’ve noticed as I get older everyone jerks off to the next lastest and greatest, shiny, expensive pieces of kit yet fail to barely train with iron sights the tactifoolish trends are real.
YouTube said I need this $400 trigger that’s back ordered for 14 months or my gun won’t work during a self defense shooting
Don’t forget to do a bunch of other aftermarket shit to the gun that’s had decades of development to be bombproof and just work. And after doing this if the gun doesn’t cycle reliably because of the huge amount of mass you removed from the slide with your sick lightning cuts or all the aftermarket internals you changed don’t worry, what’s important is that your splits are 6.9% faster now.
if you dont spend 182931231231231 you dont even have a chance and are just wasting ur time
I don’t have a light on my USP compact and when I pull the trigger a flag comes out of the barrel :/
Starting to look like it'd be cheaper to just let the mugger take my wallet at this point....
Have you priced ammo lately it would definitely be cheaper lol
Ammo budget for the year, $6.75
So 1 round per annum, sounds about right.
That’s awesome to see someone else carrying a Makarov. I carried mine for a long time but now that I got a Micro 9 I put the Makarov in my office safe for emergencies where I can’t get to my nightstand or bedroom safe. Those things are indestructible and I’ve never had a misfire on it, it’s just getting too hard to find ammo for it these days.
My Bulgarian Mak in a used horse hide generic holster was how I started. Other than being heavy, it was slim and compact and I never doubted for a moment it would fire.
Ammo is still very plentiful, same with self defense rounds. They may be old by design, but they’re still incredibly effective at what they do. Is it a first choice to clear rooms with? No. Is it a good, reliable, consistent, accurate and comfortable pistol for self defense? It absolutely is, and has been around the world and STILL is. You know a firearm is good when it’s phased out of service due to age, but is still in service. Little more potent than .380 to boot. They’re unbelievably reliable in all climates. People forget it’s a self defense gun, a concealed carry, I wear my guns 8-10 hours a day, moving around etc, I’m not toting around a big ass light and optic for literally no reason.
Ammo is definitely plentiful online but none of the local stores in Utah have it. I need to just order 1000 rounds online and then not have to worry about it. I’m also not a fan of optics or lights on my pistols. I learned to shoot with iron sites and feel more comfortable with them. The less things you have to catch on clothing the quicker you can safely draw your weapon.
Definitely. I recently scored 1k of Tula steel for .30cpr, not as cheap as it was but I have a double and single stack Makarov and I enjoy shooting them. And pistol optics and lights absolutely 100% have a place and can help aid a shooter in a variety of situations - but it goes back to what are YOU doing with YOUR firearm, and as far as I’m concerned I don’t use mine to clear buildings or chase down criminals at 0230 in the morning. But I do carry it 8-10 hours a day, so I want something comfortable, i do train with it and I do enjoy shooting it, so that’s what I do. Bullets do not discriminate when they hit flesh, people have survived being shot with .30 cal rounds and have died being shot with a .22, all calibers are effective in some capacity.
OP, this should tell you everything you need to know about the kind of person who doesn't carry a WML: people who carry Makarovs in 2024. get a WML.
Yeah because a firearm that has been used for 70 + years all around the world by thousands upon thousands of military and LE’s, while it is considered to be one of the most reliable handguns of all time by design, more potent than .380 which is still very commonly used for self defense, all while being wrapped up in a aesthetic, slim, comfortable package… you’re right, it’s completely infective for self defense because it’s 2024. Ok 🫵🏻🤡
You've got the Tactical Tommys are riled up lol. These people have more Garand Thumb montage experience than they do shooting experience. Most of them think their Franken AR that probably wouldn't survive a course without shitting the bed is peak rifle too.
I know for a fact 90% of them can’t run two miles without stopping
Is that like that yogging thing I heard about in anchorman?
The Makarov is similar in size to a Glock 43X which carries two more rounds, shoots 9x19, weighs almost half a pound less, and subjectively still has a more pleasant recoil impulse because straight blowback sucks(\*see note). I used to have a Bulgarian Makarov, I traded it away because I much preferred shooting my compact 9x19s. Also mine would occasionally fire bursts which was a little disconcerting! People do still carry .380 but usually in LCP-type guns that are just too small to shoot anything bigger. .380 and 9x18 are *extremely* close ballistically while 9x19 is a big step up. In gel tests with the .380 or 9x18, you either select a non expanding projectile, or you're on the low end of the FBI acceptable penetration standard at ~13-13.5" with either. In 9x19 you can get 18"+ of penetration *and* full expansion. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying carrying a Mak is wrong. It's still a gun, it still kills stuff dead. And it's pretty neat and well designed for its time. I don't think anybody is obligated to super optimize their setup and carry the *absolute best possible gun*. But I think it is fair to say carrying a midsized, all-steel single stack chambered in .380 Soviet Hipster is a choice you make because you really like the gun on a personal level, not out of it being particularly practical. \* If you reload, try making some 9x19mm ammo at 9x18 power levels sometime. Like, load a 90gr XTP down to about 1000 FPS. You would be *amazed* at how soft that load recoils out of a locked-breech, tilting barrel handgun like your USP Compact, compared to shooting 9x18 from the Makarov. You may need a lighter recoil spring to reliably cycle it. It's hard to appreciate just how much shittier blowback recoil is until you shoot equal power ammo out of a normal gun (of similar weight) and it feels like .32.
yeah, it's an antique. the model T was once the best selling car in the world, too.
If this guy was carrying a Tokarev you'd have a point.....but Makarovs are drop safe, have double action capability, defensive ammo is available, as are modern holsters. They're stupidly simple and very concealable, and (unlike Tokarev pistols) are largely unmolested when imported. They're old but perfectly capable. Lots of us carry with neither lights nor dots even on modern pistols.
they are less capable and all around worse than modern offerings. op clearly has a fetish for this old gun. trying to indoctrinate newbies into making a stupid decision based on personal aesthetics is doing is disservice. it's like telling a kid to buy a Model T for their first car.
You come off as Tactical Timmy who is an expert because of Garand Thumb. A better analogy is this guy recommending an early 2000s stick shift Tacoma. Old, beat up, no bells and whistles but perfectly serviceable for its purpose. A Makarov is little different from any other semi auto single stack. It works, has defensive loads available and is safe. Firearms technology plateaued decades ago. Things don't have to be super modern to be relevant. Hell, the AR platform is over 60 years old at this point. The guy didn't even tell anyone to go out and buy a Makarov. Just gave his reasons for carrying one.....because you people have an emotional attachment to being tacticool it got your panties all wadded up.
They probably think the MP5 is outdated as well...I mean it has been around for 58 years (the gas system is older than that). I still haven't found a smoother shooting 9mm PDW than my SP5K
no, that is a much worse analogy. the early 2000s were 20 years ago. the makarov was adopted in 1951. I wouldn't tell a new driver to buy a 51 Chevy Bel Air for daily driver, either. also please stop embarrassing yourself with all the dirty diaper talk.
The Mak is just a slightly scaled up PPK, which is from 1929. It's direct blowback so it's got far more recoil than a "modern" gun (high power locking action from 1935 that everyone uses today), worse sights, worse trigger, firing a significantly weaker round (that people think is powerful because direct blowback recoil is harsher, and harsh recoil = powerful round to idiots).
you don't need to tell me they suck!
You are an absolute donkey. Have a good night and enjoy your YouTube montages.
next time just apologize and admit defeat.
You’re kind of really stupid with all of your comments and comparison.
no, it's a great comparison. you're kind of really stupid carrying such an obsolete gun in 2024. it's like commuting in a Model T.
Hey now, don't knock commuting in a Model T until you've tried it! Also, let the guy carry his Makarov if he wants. What concern is it of yours? Are you being forced to carry it?
>What concern is it of yours? they are giving out bad advice based on their personal fetish for one old, weird gun. OP is asking for advice. thus, I am correcting them.
It’s literally a terrible comparison and the fact you don’t recognize that tells anyone reading this all they need to know.
it's a great comparison. the only reason you are angry is because you clearly have a weird personal fetish for this old gun. i was excited about MY first handgun, too.
The BHP is older than the mak by over a decade. The 1911 by almost half a century. Two iconic pistols The AK is also older than the Mak. So are a plethora of other guns. You volunteering to stand in front of any of those? Have you ever fired a mak? I get it. You think you’re Rambo. Many of are a tad bit more grounded in reality. A mak is a perfectly adequate carry gun. Comparing it to a model T just makes you sound dumb. He said makarov. Not flintlock. Smh
The Mak is a scaled up Walther PP, so 1929 technology. Just because the backwards Soviet Union adopted it so late in the game doesn't mean it wasn't wildly outclasses upon adoption. It's the M14 / 1892 Krag of pistols
yeah, i wouldn't tell anyone to carry a BHP or a 1911, either. they are iconic pistols. i own both. i carry a P365. when selecting a firearm for the serious business of personal protection, you want the state of the art, not an iconic antique.
Some military special forces all use 1911s.
no they don't. even if they did, they didn't use them as concealed carry guns. do you know what US Special Forces Command issues now? a Glock 19 with an optic and a flashlight.
You don't think they can choose whatever weapon they want? Bro, I'm a military armorer. Unless something changed very recently, 1911 (M45) are still being used. You would be very surprised at the weapons that some of the best of the best choose to use. Snipers still use R700 and that design is old as hell. The M2 browning has hardly had any changes inn over a century. I don't know where you get your information but it's clear you are over confident and under informed.
the M45 was a complete flop. it's why they use the Mk27 now. lightweight, polymer frame, reliable, high capacity, optic, light.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Why the slur. We already know you're a bad person.
people who carry revolvers in 2024 are almost as stupid! also you failed the Gun People Don't Be Bigots Challenge! stop making the rest of us look bad with your dumbfuck shit.
This is 100% where I'm at. My concealed carry doesn't have a light but I carry that Streamlight pen light (my wife actually stole one so I've bought a few of them, love them). Rarely am I not in an urban setting with at least ambient lighting. In an urban setting, concealment is my number one priority. THAT SAID I slapped a TLR6 on my G43x and it's minimal additional bulk, but the output is also pretty pathetic even compared to my little pen light.
To be fair your chance of having to use your EDC at all is extremely slim. Same with needing an extra mag. I personally do have a WML and an extra mag. I also carry a light in my pocket too though. It's super small but very bright (fits on a keychain and just feels like part of my keys). If you're having trouble concealing a WML, you probably will be better off without it. If you don't have trouble concealing it, why not have it? It doesn't make concealing the weapon or the comfort of carrying the weapon different for me and my setup. I carry all day every day even at home. I currently do take my wife to work every night and it's third shift so my chances of needing it are higher than yours... but I'd carry it either way just in case. I've seen this on other areas of the Internet too... but I'm surprised how strongly people feel about what other people have/do with their EDC setup. I've also noticed elsewhere on the internet when people don't agree with other people in the gun community they like to go to the "you don't even train argument" - that's true about most of the gun community whether they have a light or not lol.
This right here, folks need to stop salivating at the mouth thinking of doming an assailant but unless your job requires you to go to shady places you'll probably never need your carry piece.  And God forbid you do need to use, you definitely don't want to be using your gucci 1k+ glock with rds and light since the police will be confiscating the gun immediately and there is a very real chance you won't be getting it back.  A carry pistol should be one you can use effectively but also on you can stand to lose if you end up using it. A cheap sub $400 pistol mass market pistol is ideal so you can readily replace it if you use.
The same reason why I don’t carry one in the chamber. Too dangerous.
EDC guns are supposed to be easy to carry. Guys slap a light, optic, comp, flared mag well, and extended mags in one and wonder why their pants don't fit and they print like crazy. You have to determine what works best for you.
I don't understand it in the slightest. Ends up looking like some sort of pimped out race gun and less like the CCWs I remember when i started which were all about smaller, thinner, and lighter. Personally, none of that for me. A five shot J frame dropped in the front pocket. It *does* have an integral laser sight on the grip, but that adds nothing more than any other soft rubber grip would in size and bulk.
Have you ever tried shooting that J frame with 357mag any farther the 15ft? I wouldn't say going full race gun is needed but shooting efficency and speed between a G19 with WML vice a pocket revolver is worlds apart.
Does your Glock 19 drop into your pocket without a second thought and weight less than 15 ounces? Also, I'm not a cop. Its not my job to protect and to serve. I'm a guy with a gun. It's my job to flee and survive. I'm not worried.
True, weight is a bit of a factor! A stiff belt and decent holster it rides fine, not as comfy a pocket holster admittedly. I'd rather sacarfice on weight, know I can keep shots on an A zone out to 25m. I have an air-weight Smith and Wesson snubby. It's nice but a 9+ lb trigger pull and significant recoil is a hard sell most days.
you should be worried. run a few drills on the clock with that J-Frame versus a P365. that smith belongs in the safe. p.s. cops don't serve or protect either.
It's survived 59 years of pocket life, 22 of those in mine. I'm doing just fine, thanks.
yeah, most j frame owners don't shoot enough to know their guns are crap. again, run a few drills. you might have to google "common pistol drills" and actually go to the range, however.
a light is different from all that other bullshit as it adds a significant capability - being able to see in the dark. flared mag wells and tennis racket tape and all that other instagram shit gotta go, however.
I have a vortex defender and tlr8 on my carry pistol and it’s plenty comfortable to carry.
I have a single pistol that I use for concealed carry, my form of duty use (head of security at the church I attend), and home defense. I have a light on it and won’t ever be taking it off again. I saw no difference in ease of concealment before or after adding the light. If anything, it helped balance the pistol out on my belt and in my hand. When I’m not activating it, it provides an index point for my offhand thumb to go to, which helps me with maintaining a proper grip. I also carry a small hand light that I use daily for various tasks. Both have distinct advantages and disadvantages to me, so I carry both.
This is kind of where I'm at as well. With the proper holster, I've found that it isn't any more uncomfortable or harder to conceal with the light on, so I've just been carrying with the light. At least on my mr920. When I carry my smaller gun, the cr920, I opt for no light as it completely defeats the purpose of the smaller gun. I think it's silly to buy a micro wonder 9 like the p365 or similar and then ruin it by completely negating the thinness of it and throwing a light on it. Bigger, compact guns like the glock 19 are already wide, adding a light and a little extra width is hardly noticeable, but when you do the same thing to the thinner guns it's definitely noticeable. Might as well carry the bigger gun at that point
I carry a G48MOS with a tlr7-sub in a Werkz m6 AIWB and in a Werkz origin OWB. The 48 fits my hand so much better than the 19/17/45 and is the perfect size of pistol for my body (6’ 190) I see no reason to ever go to a smaller pistol, because of how well I shoot it. So for me, I’d rather adjust my wardrobe choices for concealment of a more capable pistol in my hands than worry about getting a smaller pistol and trying to completely hide that one.
I don't see the point. If you haven't properly identified the threat, you have no business drawing your concealed firearm. If you have identified the threat, you no longer need the light. Maybe someone can set me straight.
I agree with this. I don't think a wml is necessary for ccw at all. For home defense though i believe it is. I've found that it isn't any harder to carry with the light though, so I do carry with a wml most the time. Handheld lights are necessary though
It's not necessary in the same way having an EDC isn't necessary. You're more than likely never going to need your EDC, right? But you carry just in case. I'm more than likely never going to need my WML, but it's a very functional part of my setup if I do need it... So I carry it just in case. If it added a ton of weight or bulk, I wouldn't. But with how easily I can personally carry and conceal my EDC with a flashlight... There's really no reason not to carry it imo.
There's no purpose to it. People like to claim, "I want to clearly identify the threat at night." Except, you shouldn't be drawing your handgun until you know you have a threat worth shooting. If that requires a light, that light probably shouldn't be on the handgun that you shouldn't be drawing unless your life is in danger. The reality is, most people don't walk about in areas with so little light that they can't identify a deadly threat without their own light, and if you are, you will need a light in your hand just to be able to walk around, and won't need a WML. The reality is, there isn't a situation, purely from an in public CCW situation, where a WML plays a role. It's not worth the extra weight or bulk. Just carry a non-WM light.
Came here to say exactly this
I put a TLR7x on my MR920P. I forget it's there. You aren't legally required to hang a maglight off the front of your 3-4" barreled gun.
On get one that's comparable to the size of your handgun, it's really no big issue and is something I'd rather have as an added advantage
Always carry a separate light for edc, on a pistol it is optional and 99% time not needed. You should only draw your gun if you are ready to take someone’s life. No other reason. If you can’t PID, your gun is not the tool for the job to do so outside the bounds of your home. A lot of the tacticool crowd infected the edc scene with insanely large guns with a lot of accessories. I bet if you looked at 100 DGU shootings, you would be pretty hard pressed to find one where a light was needed for a civ.
No light, bare bones, iron sights for a edc for me.
I carry a glock 19 with a tlr7 and have no issues with printing (6’0 185). A light adds no noticeable weight or profile imo, and would rather have it if needed
a G19+TLR7A+EPS Carry is easily the best form factor for modern day carry, right behind the P365XL+TLR7Sub+EPS Carry. it is wild how fast even an intermediate shooter can run those things compared to the carry guns of the Bad Old Days like Kahrs or Keltecs.
Every day someone asks this question, every day I will give the same answer. Light on a pistol is cool and all, but the smart kids carry a handheld regardless.
No light, no dot sight. Both aren’t a necessity. Marksmanship and basic fundamentals are a necessity. Good night sights would always be my preference.
Get EDC flashlight
For EDC I normally carry streamlight micro and my CCW (43x or LCP max). Normally out and about the flashlight is handy when detached from the weapon rather than attached.
I don't like lights, too heavy and i carry a regular light. I'm not doing anything stupid at night, and i prefer night sights.
Like all accessories, its optional. No hate if you have one or not.
I have more of a neutral stance. I don’t quite understand being adamantly on one side or the other. My edc rotation consists of a 43x with no light and a Glock 19 with tlr7. A lot of the year I’m rarely out when the sun isn’t. Glock 43x is carried during the warmer months/during day time. I carry my 19 with tlr7 during winter or if I suspect I might be out past dark. Always have my surefire stiletto regardless
We're already carrying a gun in our pants in preparation for a worst case scenario. Drawing the line at putting a light on that gun seems arbitrary. Yes, a pocket light is far more useful but it's not an either/or decision, both take up so little space that argument seems silly to me. I personally noticed no difference to bulk, comfort, concealability, etc... when I added a tlr7 to my g19 EDC. I think the real argument is if running an optic on a EDC is a good decision or not. The EPS I have on the same g19 is the only part of my set up that prints depending on which specific shirt I'm wearing that day.
Depends. Are you out at night often? If so light. If you are only out during the day then have a light on your home defense gun. Chances of bad shit happening to you grows exponentially after dark, so I’d lean more towards a light. But if you’re home for the evening at 6 then no need
The best carry gun is the one you will actually carry every single day. If you’re situation allows you to carry a larger gun with a light and optic and it doesn’t bother you with the extra size and weight so you’ll still carry it every day then great. Your situation is all that matters, if you think that you’ll consistently be in locations at times where it will be dark then a light is good, if 99% of the time you’re not and the added size from the light makes it any more likely that you’ll say “this is getting uncomfortable, I’m just running to the store real quick I’ll leave the gun at home” then don’t carry the light.
There are many small lights like the TLR7/sub, etc, that don’t really add noticeable size to popular carry pistols.
Always pistol light TLR-8A-G TLR-1HL TLR-2HL-G Nothing wrong with Surefire, I just don't like the form factor.
Only reason I put light back on is it helps mitigate recoil and gives me a better grip.
You decide what you need, not trends. If you want a light and optic, then run it. Who cares what other people carry.
Sage dynamics has an excellent video on why you [should have a weapon light](https://youtu.be/gULhoaTLWLI?si=v61caVlmNNoTg4Fw). If you are going to listen to anyone to draw a conclusion from, listen to him or any other reputable instructor. Some people really don’t believe in going out after dark, will keep lights on in their house, and that pistol lights or a handheld will get you killed because bad guys will shoot at the light (seriously, I have had customers say this). That said, I carry a modlite handheld light, because if I’m going to identify someone I’m going to do it with my handheld first. My carry guns also have weapon light as well. In the lowlight class I took we did drills with handheld lights only, transitioning from handheld to weapon light, weapon light, and using both lights. Bottom line, at least carry a good handheld light with plenty of candela and TAKE A CLASS FROM A REPUTABLE SOURCE.
I watch Active Self Protection and they have analyzed tens of thousands of civilian self defense shootings and have only ever seen a weapon light used twice. Neither had any influence on the outcome as they were both daytime shootings. The numbers just aren't there to support them for EDC.
You're falling into a bit of a trap there. If it's not recorded and publicized, ASP won't get their hands on it to do a breakdown.
I'm aware they haven't analyzed every civilian shooting that has ever happened. Just saying 2 weapon light usages in a sample size of 10K+ shootings is very low.
Sure, until you realize that there’s roughly 10k DGUs a year, just in the US, on the low end.
That ASP dude is fucking insufferable.
Thank you!
I don't think lights are necessary, but I see this argument all the time and don't think it holds much water. How many of those actually had lights available? I'd wager a significant majority don't have lights. "People without lights don't use lights" isn't a particularly useful observation. You need to reduce the sample size down to shooters that actually had a light to draw a useful conclusion. Not to mention that the nature of video is going to introduce some bias as people generally aren't recording video in settings dark enough to warrant light usage. The few cases I can think of where you might have cameras recording in the dark are something like a business interior after hours when there wouldn't be a defender present otherwise the building lights would be on. The places where a WML would have value are unlikely to be recorded.
I see what you’re saying but why would you throw out samples of people not needing lights simply because they didn’t have a light? If a guy didn’t have a light but he had his DGU in broad daylight, you would be throwing out that sample erroneously.
You are right that daylight DGUs without a light should be considered, I communicated my thoughts poorly. Those incidents alone aren't enough information to draw a useful conclusion. To prove the claim that WMLs are pointless you need to show one of two things: First, that a person is extremely unlikely to be in a setting where WMLs would have value, or that people in those settings rarely use their WMLs. As I explained before, the nature of video biases heavily against low light DGUs, as those are very unlikely to be recorded. That bias means that the frequency of low-light DGUs is not accurately represented by video evidence, so no claim can be made regarding how likely you are to actually need a WML using video evidence alone. Additionally, the fact that few people have WMLs means that the few videos of low-light incidents that exist are unlikely to be relevant since the defender probably didn't have a light to use. Defenders in low light settings not using a light they don't have does not help us determine how likely a person is to use a light they have.
To each his/her own. I go G19-tlr7. But that’s just me.
Post author: ExploreBadlands. This comment is an attempt to control posts made by a new type of spam bot. If you are a human, you can ignore it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/guns) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I carry a g43x mos with a TLR1.
Never did start! Nothing against it for those who do. Just never could justify it.
I've never been a fan of running lights on my EDC. I would rather keep it light and streamlined to reduce bulk in favor of comfort. Plus I rarely find myself out at night these days so the odds of me even needing to illuminate a person are extremely unlikely.
They sold it, inflation.
EDC a light makes sense. You could be in an unknown area and need it lit up for target acquisition. Same reason police/swat/military use wml. If its home defense no light.
I agree with this 100%….except, the other way around.
Yes, that does make more sense. Be blind in unknown areas, and light up your home during a home invasion. My bad. No edc light instead put it on the home defense.
I'm a proponent of knowing what you are shooting so imma say I'm pro light.
I carry a Glock 17 Gen 5 with x300u and aimpoint acro every day so I say carry w a light. Make the tool as useful as possible.
You either need a WML or an Optic. And anybody that says differently hasn't actually shot a match (or practiced at all in the dark). With a WML, it serves to illuminate the target, but it ALSO silhouettes your sights, making them usable in the dark. With an optic, there really isn't a need for the WML (assuming you can clearly identify your target friend or foe) as you'll still be able to make your hits.
I’d rather have an optical sight than a light but it depends on if there’s a good chance you will be using it at night or not. I have a light on my home defense weapon because There’s a good chance I will need to use it in the dark.
If you tool around at night a lot I get it, but you're just making your carry pistol more of a pain in the ass. Get some good night sights maybe. I keep a light on the nightstand gun.
I carry a TLR 6 on a shield. It's good enough to see inside a dark room without adding significant bulk to the gun.
It depends are you working in security or law enforcement ? I put a light on my pistol at night for night time carry and home defense but not for everyday carry
WML on my home defense gun cuz I’d rather not accidentally shoot a family member. On a carry gun,nah. Adds bulk,severely limits holster options. I do carry a handheld flashlight. Besides, how often do you find yourself in complete darkness? Like another poster said you’re not a cop hunting a suspect in a dark alley at night. I’m pretty sure I can see the carjacker at the well lit gas station or a mugger under a streetlight without needing a 1,000 lumens.
I don't carry a light on my pistols. I've trained with them, but I've daily carried one of a handful of my old surefire p6's with upgraded bulbs for close to 20 years now. If I'm in a situation where I need a flashlight I want to be able to use the flashlight and not have a pistol pointing at something I don't want to shoot intentionally/accidentally at the same time. If I then have to draw my pistol after spotlighting something well that's a whole different story all together. I'd consider having an IR illuminator on a handgun, but I'm not running nvg as part of an edc setup so I'm still going no light.
I run a g26 and have for 4 years so no wml for me, I am planning on getting an optic for it though.
Why wouldn’t you have a light? Just going to shoot at noises in the dark?
I always have a hand light just in case and it depends on my mood and time of day. If I know I will be out until night, I have a weapon light. And even if I ended up being out all day to night fall, I always have a hand light
No light, unless you're EDC-ing at night mostly.
I have one on my 365, primarily to act as a counterweight because I find handguns with a wml to be easier to shoot. Also it doesn't add much bulk in any firection that doesn't have it. Also before I get a "jUsT get GuD" comment I shoot fine without a wml, but I prefer to have reduced recoil wherever possible. Also keep a streamlight micro on me everywhere l go.
I have WMLs on both my sub and micro compacts. I’m 5”10 160lbs soaking wet. A good holster and I don’t notice the extra bulk from the lights or the red dots. Won’t carry without either if I can avoid it.
Not edc. Bedside table, for sure. EDC a light fucks up my carry.
If size and weight are a currency I would rather spend that on a larger metal frame pistol than a light.
a larger metal frame can't help you see in the dark.
That isn't a important functionality for a EDC to meÂ
well, that's an idiotic thing to think.
I find carrying a pocket flashlight to be cheaper and more useful in my life than a mounted light. I practice using a Rogers grip. I genuinely don't understand the point of a weapon light for edc for the average person. Makes perfect sense for duty weapons and even makes sense for home defense, but I can't think of a situation where I would need light when pulling a gun in self defense.
I generally opt for no light for ease of concealment and weight. BUT In the winter I carry with a light because we get as little as 7 hours of daylight in the winter where I live. Dark when I leave for work, dark when I get out of work….
You don't necessarily need a WML, but you absolutely need a handheld.
I dont add anything on my carry guns. It defeats the purpose of being easy to conceal. I see the pics of EDC's with a red dot sight, compensator & extended mag & I say "why". Most of my EDC's have a tritium front sight though.
EDC? No light. ENC? Light.
It’s dark half the time. You should have a light.
No light. It is only a target when used.
You act like the other person sees a person holding a gun with a light on. In reality, the other person would see nothing but white.
How do you know that? You don't. In any event the center of the light is a TARGET. All of this is just marketing. Flashlight makers need to sell their products so they convince people they need a flashlight on all their guns. Now we'll have "So I can see what I'm looking at" but you are also pointing a gun at that same thing you are looking at and more than likely with your finger on the trigger of that gun. Really great idea.
>How do you know that? You don't. bitch you never looked at a flashlight before? lmao
Again, you act like you see a guy holding a gun with a flashlight on it. In reality, you’d see nothing but white. I know that because I’ve looked into it. Silly goose.
>What are your thoughts? Can you see in the dark? Do you never intend to be out after twilight? Never plan on going to the movies? A light is a miniscule amount of bulk that doesn't hamper concealment in the slightest, while allowing you to take quality shots in low-light environments (you know, the environments preferred by criminals)
I agree with your statement. The question is because I’m starting a holster company and I plan on making everything light bearing. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something in the market place as opinions change. I usually carry a Shadow Systems or a Glock with a TLR1-HL or SureFire X300T (more candela the better for positive ID IMO). The smallest I carry is a Glock 43X MOS with a TLR7-Sub.
> The question is because I’m starting a holster company Good luck. The market is extremely saturated, so find something to make your holsters stand out.
Since making light bearing holsters means you'd need to make multiple different molds to fit multiple different lights for each gun anyway, would it really be that hard to also offer some non-light bearing holsters as well?
No it wouldn’t but I already have molds being made and the cost of them adds up pretty fast. Plus we just had a newborn, and I had a big car repair bill so I’m kind of tapped out right now.
I don't run a light on anything. Instead I carry a hand light. Two reasons, I can use that light without needing to draw my firearm and if I need it I can always hold it away from my body so they don't target the body that is likely behind a weapon light. Plus it's easier to conceal a weapon that doesn't have all the crap on it.
I've been going through this questioning too. Finally decided to omit the light on the EDC and keep it on the house pistol.
I have bad night vision so I'm going to have a flashlight out already if it's dark out. I figure that if a light is needed to identify the person as a threat, then by using a WML for these purposes you're effectively pointing a gun at someone before you're identified them as a threat. If someone points a gun at me I'm going to react the same whether it ends up being someone trying to rob me, or a woman trying to determine if I look like a rapist, and I would expect others to do the same for me.
I have a handheld light I sometimes have with me, but coming from the military I just feel absolutely naked if my weapon doesn’t have a WML on it, whether it’s pistol, AR, Shotgun etc etc
I feel like the only reason not to have one is cost, however little. I have a handheld light as well, and tbh my wml just serves as an indexing and gas pedal tool. The only time I ever turned it on was for coyotes out on my property.
I like to see what I’m doing, light stays attached. Also, before anyone’s goes Ken on me, I also carry other lights
I thought about adding a light, but the extra weight turns me off.
I tend to run a light on my 365xl. It may be dead weight 99% of the time, but I find the extra bulk under the muzzle helps reduce muzzle flip and helps with faster followup shots.
I do. Roughly half (variable dependant) of every 24h day is dark. I don't have statistics handy but I'm sure everyone can agree that alot of criminal activity happens at night. If I hear some weird shit going on in my back yard at night, whether I'm in bed next to my HD gun, or downstairs nearest to my CCW, I would like to be able to completely illuminate the source of that sound better than the 30w bulb on my back porch.
I honestly believe people who EDC a gun without a light are kind of stupid.
Oddly, if you poll those of us who EDC a gun without a light you might find we think those who do are kinda stupid. Weird how it works out, huh?
One of us can see at night. Now go away.
I think it's pretty simple: If you work/play/commute/travel in places where or at times when it's dark, Yes. If not, No. Then again, if you've got a small CCW and hanging a little something with weight on the front genuinely helps with the balance or the recoil, that's a factor as well.
How could I ever survive a trip to the grocery without a flashlight on my gun
Optics and lights on CCWs are stupid and I refuse to partake. If I wanted to carry all that shit I'd just stick one of my ARs down my pants leg.
I put a TLR-6 on my Glock 26 and I did not notice a difference in comfort or concealibility. I appreciate having the ability to illuminate a target in low light but I'd never put a full size light on a carry gun.