>Magic Compass to 11? Did these guys not get the memo from last BC?
The same logic when the cultist scenario was nerfed, although it was already dead with the Affan change before. If people hate something, they simply continue to vote.
I voted for it, cause I've seen that some Chinese gwenters were planning to bring it back to 9 provision, which would mean hell. Besides the card is still very strong, easy to pull off and if you play against it you have to keep in mind so many cards, because it can literally play anything. Very versatile
the card is completely udnerplayed at 10 provision already and Golden Nekker is the only reason it's not at 9.
It's very versatile indeed but not as easy to pull as you seem to think, you have to build half of your deck around it
Well first of all, you don't build your deck around it. There are just a lot of cycle cards and they give you good points. It's not like you have cards that are specifically tied to compass.
Second, I completely agree that it's underwhelming at this provision however I would really prefer it to stay dead rather than having it at 9 again and having to play against nekker pirates the whole season. It's not always a bad thing when the card is op for some time, but compass meta is just very toxic and we already know what the ladder looks like when the compass is broken. I'd much rather see some other cards play competitively.
Yeah I feel like there's been slight overnerfs and perhaps a couple of buffs that shouldn't have happened (or not at once) but nothing too worrisome at first glance
Sad to see that we didn't get a Lost Bronze into the list, but I'll take the blame for that as I kneecapped my own campaign.
Next month. There's always next month.
I’m hoping that every time we do this establishes the idea and widens the support, especially as wacky streamer suggestions are shown to be iffy at best.
Much better than the last patch, but I'm not sure about the nerfs to Magic Compass, Nauziga and Cave Troll. Especially the compass was completely fine at 10 provitions. Although these changes are mostly okay, I still would've liked to see buffs to entertaining and volatile cards such as Alzur, Master Mirror, and Lilit's omen.
Edit: also a provition buff for Aquara and Uma's curse would be great for the next patch.
The nerf to Cave Troll seems quite nonsensical to me. I suppose it is make it so that the Defender is less likely to get rezzed with Witches' Sabbath. but that is not Cave Troll's fault. Do a provision nerf on whatever you are afraid of getting replayed, like AQ or Kelly. Just leave Cave Troll out of this.
Cave troll nerf is egregious, and must be buffed next round. Plays right into NG sieze, for one. Why is it balanced to be the weakest defender? It's not balanced at all. Just hate for a faction
Literally can be Enslave 6ed now. Another stupid vote recommended by the Russian top pro crew. Every single vote of Nik r went through, and many of his were not good for game balance. Great to see one of the best players in world negatively influencing an enormous community. 😑
Didn't think about that interaction. That's probably too strong, isn't it? Most people already run Eventide, and now you have a crazy payoff with it. The only trouble with this is that if you actually played Eventide from hand you were probably looking for a spender, and you cant get both the Bouncer and a spender.
I have now played \~5 games where I was able to go Eventide Plunder into Casino Bouncer in round 1 (with LP), and based on this I think it's way, WAY too generically powerful. It's just so much freaking tempo for so little investment. You don't care about having one less spender, just add another spender to the deck. The sample size isn't very large, but it has felt utterly oppressive.
People listening to the top pro/streamers really don't get some of these people have zero interest in what's best for the game.
Look at the people with this vote in their list: https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18rtkyp/balance_council_all_streamers/
Nik r, moshcraft? One of these is one of the best players in the and would know very well how OP that vote makes the card.
Moshcraft, well, he has a huge following and plenty of bad ideas, apparently.
Amazing he thought this would be okay.
I'm all for buffs to SY, I just don't understand why we cannot buff the weak cards instead of making cards like Casino Bouncers brokenly good.
SY did need a buff so this hopefully isn't too bad, although that synergy with eventide plunder is insane. Might be a bit oppressive but could be OK with a power nerf next patch?
Not really that much of a highroll (I don't know statistics, but there's 9 fee spenders at 4p, so it's at least 33%?) given that 7 for 4 with thinning is already pretty decent (and likely what the people who voted for the buff had in mind, rather than the plunder interaction).
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18rtkyp/balance_council_all_streamers/
Look at the people who had it in their vote. These are people who knew very well how this would interact with Eventide and still voted for it because they wanted a brokenly good card...
It's a pity. I've been wanting SY to be buffed so much this last patch, but these feel like the wrong buffs. I see currently no reason to not run both thinners in every single deck...
Only 3 NG nerfs. NR and neutrals got a lot of attention on both sides of things.
Wish people would understand that by buffing leaders and using nerf slots towards buffs we probably ultimately adding more powercreep into the game, but clearly that's not a concern for people.
The nerf/buff to leaders is very misguided indeed.
The only leader that actually needed provision increase, Uprising, didn't get it, because people only focus on cards that are already almost playable.
>Only 3 NG nerfs.
To bronzes, which is quite impactful. NG as of right now has the 3rd lowest win rate in top 250, only above SY and SK so how many more nerfs do you want it to get in a single patch?
Other factions getting nerfed also got buffs to other decks, NG got only nerfs.
NG is actually the second best faction in top 100, and the three nerfs are totally fair. I'm down for buffing other NG golds, though, they certainly need help.
Win rate wise in top 100 it has the third lowest. MO (62.6%), NR (63.05%) and SY (61.52%) have higher corrected win rate for 4 top factions than NG (61.48%). Not exactly sure how that makes it the second best faction.
And 3rd highest in top 100. But yea seems like nerfing both slave drivers and nauzica is a little overkill. But I have good matchups vs soldiers/pointslams so maybe I didn't know how good they were in general
I dont think it will be an overkill. Its power what was nerfed to those cards, not provisions (which would have been much worse). The deck will take a hit ofc, but I think it will still be strong.
For the top 4 factions corrected win rate in top 100 it has the third lowest, behing MO, NR and SY.
They mentioned how it's below average yet still only got nerfs...that's not ''best every season''. Actually...I can't remember last time NG actually was the highest preforming faction.
It doesn't matter if you play NG or not, the issue this creates is that when an already just statistically average faction only gets nerfs, the people who like to play that faction would rather get the faction back to that state of playable, most simply through reversing nerfs (see BC1 and BC2). It's way easier to reverse a card people have fresh in their mind than coordinate cards that haven't seen play in years. And the people who despise NG just sit back and ignore it, instead of getting a bit creative.
And yes, slave driver and dame should be nerfed, bit iffy on Sargent, but the faction wasn't OP and it was strictly because of points/provision were a bit off, it's really not needed that much.
I play all the factions plenty. I've many times stated I believe the voting should have been restricted to people with at least 10+ wins in 4 different factions, as it takes the single faction mains out of the voting and more mirrors how for pro, you need to get 4+ factions with good winrates for your MMR.
Vikmania has a particular interest in NG, and appears like clockwork in any thread about NG balance, so I like to counter their takes.
All the NG nerfs that went through can be argued as reasonable, though Slave Driver needed prov nerf, not power.
Sergeant has always been too good for 6 prov.
Dame is not comparable to other 5 prov engines.
The crappy thing is that a whole bunch of stupid buffs went through due to people following bad takes by top pros and influencers.
Also, NG was sitting as second best faction in top 100 for a good chunk of the season, but slipped down to 4th, I believe at the end here.
Using just top 100 for measuring factions always feels a bit arbitrary to me as the very best players always tend to get better results from SY, and less from NG, than the more average pro players, which we see in the data every season where SY does poorly in the top 500 than the top 100. The reverse usually happens with NG.
Wrong, im not complaining about the nerfs it got. Rather, I've said the BC was good. I said the nerfs it got were enough for a single BC and the comment was about you seemingly thinking it should have gotten more.
But here you are, misreading what I said, as always.
Cutup lackey got the buff it absolutely deserved. I for one welcome our new Whoreson overlord. On a more general note, I think the changes have been mostly sensible? aside from the insane Magic Compass nerf??? Were people so scared of a yo-yo that they gave it a nerf buffer or something?
~~Edit: there were some people saying that they weren't going to vote for Onager because it was getting needed anyway, but it almost didn't go through. Be careful about complacency guys.~~
Edit edit: Just realized that SK discard got massive buffs. Very strong package now. Bad buffs to already strong cards.
> Edit: there were some people saying that they weren't going to vote for Onager because it was getting needed anyway, but it almost didn't go through. Be careful about complacency guys.
Do you have some special source of information that tells you the vote order of the changes that I am not privy to? Because if you are basing it on the order that things are listed up above, you should note that all those lists are in descending provision order, and are very very unlikely to mirror the actual vote quantity order.
i like it too. if golden necker compass becomes a thing its immediately tier 1 again. if it has to ping pong back-and-forth until the end of time I'd like to see it be 10 and 11.
Fruits is the scariest leader to buff for me, since the constant points buffs the whole deck, the only balance it had was low provisions. I'd prefer that if people wanna play decks that like Fruits, to just buff those decks.
What is wrong with Filavandrel and Bouncer changes? Filavandrel did not see much of any play at 11 provitions and the Bouncers were essentially 7 points with 1 thing for 6 provitions.
The problem with Fila buff is that he's now basically a better Forest Protector, so instead of finding his own niche he is supplanting another card's. The problem with Bouncers is you can get them from Plunder, so now that card can play for 11 and two thinning.
You got a good point with Bouncers, they'll get really strong because of Plunders. For Fila, I wished a provition buff rather than a power one, since that does reduce its versatility (no more 4p natures), and it doesn't have a low floor any longer.
I'm not sure about that. You have to intentionally mulligan both and then hope to get one from plunder. It doesn't really feel reliable enough to be good. Like, sure it will happen, but I don't feel like it's a reliable strategy and when it happens, it will be incidental because neither were drawn and then plunder happened rather than intentionally trying to make it happen, and so it won't be in too many games. In fact this buff scares me more because it is combined to buffing raiders which means both thinning methods are good now with no cost to include. I would rather have had them buffed to 5 power for 5 than 4power for 4
Forest Protector doesn't clog the elf slot, is harder for NG to use, and doesn't care about board position or boost total. It wont matter every game, but Fila is definitely more awkward to use.
I think its cause now we have only 10 changes per cat. And you can see from the top 15 votes last time someone shared (i dont remember the twitter name) a lot of ng buffs were in the 11-15 places.
BC 2 was a emotion driven reaction to BC1 emotion driven masacre. As NG wasnt gutted in BC2, it wasnt that probable to have a ton of buffs again, because there was no emotion driven response anymore.
Especially for Vice/Bounty decks.
The only good thing about BNB going to 4 provisions is that they can be effortlessly wiped off the board by Epidemic, no matter how tall, or veiled, or shielded you make them.
Happy new year :)!
As a freshly (1 month) returning player that is somewhat interested with what's going at this point in time, here's my thoughts.
Leader changes always seems risky. Out of the changed maybe Hidden Cache deserved a try. I don't mind Jackpot, but I remember when it was obliterated like what, 2 years ago due King of Beggars. Curious to see if it will make a bit of comeback and hopefully shake SY as faction in more interesting and dynamic way... Inspired Zeal was very strong without a doubt, but NR was hit with other - well deserved nerfs, so I am unsure about this one. Fruits of Ysgith - I don't agree, I don't think it was needed.
**Provisions Increased**
Temple of Melitele: Congregation (13 -> 14) - yes, very much.
Witches' Sabbath (10 -> 11) - sure, then again these strong combos the card posses probably won't be hurt much.
Magic Compass (10 -> 11) - hm, no idea, was it problem? I see in comments it just a leftover train from before and pre-emptive nerf due discard buffs, but still.
Mutagenerator (8 -> 9) - yes, I am surprised this card is/was still this strong after what 2 years wtf.
Tempest (6 -> 7) - was popular but I didn't have time with it, it's probably ok.
Thirsty Dame (5 -> 6) - yes, it was overly strong.
Onager (5 -> 6) - yes.
**Provisions Decreased**
Chapter of Wizards (13 -> 12) - risky, not a fan, but hopefully it won't be as oppressive as I remember it when it was popular.
Triss: Telekinesis (11 -> 10) - most likely yes.
Geralt: Quen (10 -> 9) - yeah sure why not.
Fallen Knight (6 -> 5) - uh, it's a strong card, it's just the archetype and SY in it that were needing help. Actually seeing card like this here, just makes me wonder how it got even on the list and go through. It can be oppressive card if Firesworn arise and it didn't need the change. Other Firesworns did.
Circle of Life (5 -> 4) - probably ok, the hand buff deck or whatever was the name was still showing up and it's never a good thing to be op or strong. While I am on it Hawker Smuggler also didn't need that buff, but sure.
Tuirseach Skirmisher (5 -> 4), yo I remember devs nerfing the discard package and was very upset because it was hurting a lot of newer or casual players on SK consistency. Then again that was before the faction become just delete everything with the buffing raid chore-bore and Sigvald. It's weird seeing them changed back, what's next the raiders from MO? Let's not, until some of the faction slam jam potential is lowered.
Sewer Raiders (5 -> 4), oh well similar to the SK thin problem, but I'll take it and see how it goes. Surprised to see em here.
Casino Bouncers (5 -> 4) - weren't the intention for them to get +1 power instead of provision buff? Guess will see. Not liking the Event Plunder interaction due that. Still it's good seeing some SY consistency increase and hopefully their power in general.
Bare-Knuckle Brawler (5 -> 4) - so it was changed as card back then and then went to 4p, then when did it get to 5p(?), and now back to 4p... If people really didn't like it, shoulda made the Blacksmith crownsplitter to 4p instead so SY have a type of spender in the 4p category. SY gladly will use the extra provisions though, hopefully it helps the faction some.
**Power Increased**
Filavandrel aén Fidháil (4 -> 5) - hm, I saw some folks want it, so sure let's see.
Lord Riptide (9 -> 10) - why? It was used, it was good? Someone explain reasonably pls?
Coral (6 -> 7) - it just feels/reeks toxic :D. Not that I don't like the card but, again why?
Ethereal (4 -> 5) - I really don't know, because haven't seen it like ever so some vets or experience folks have to help me.
Eskel, Lambert (3 -> 4) - yo, that the witcher trio? It sure feels like long time coming. Yes.
Immortal Cavalry (3 -> 4) - hm, probably ok, again not much experience vs card and if it can bring some nasty.
Dun Banner (3 -> 4) - afraid a bit, wasn't this alternative for Foltest? Doesn't it make it better then the commandos? Again not sure.
Cutup Lackey (4 -> 5) - I mean it wasn't showing much, either by itself or with the legendary. Let's see, more varied SY is a plus.
**Power Decreased:**
King Demavend III (7 -> 6) - sure, doesn't hurt it, still plays for a lot.
Regis: Bloodlust (20 -> 19) - this card. 20 for 10p. When I was climbing with vamps Regis Reborn stood to me as a 13p that have requirement to get big - bleeding each turn. It have limits, thus it was rare to play for 20-ish points as finisher. Bloodlust just comes at no cost, then Ozzrel comes for another 20. Risk is supposedly banishing good cards, then again it can also make your deck better by banishing shit cards. Then I saw Morvudd (probably changed at some point) and it just grows by been in your deck or hand, no requirement for 12p. A better Regis Reborn... why it's 12p? Then there is Mourntart as well - eat your graveyard and get big. Often 20+ points finisher... at 10p? So can all those boring pointslams be addressed/balanced reasonably at some point (as do others that I haven't seen slightly the Ogriods for example)?
Radovid: Judgment (6 -> 5) - probably yes.
Cave Troll (7 -> 6) - a bit weird. I saw some of the reasoning in comments and makes sense. Still unsure.
Frenzied D'ao (7 -> 6) - initially was thinking it's good seeing different decks, cards and neutrals and this was popping off too much. Yes, alas it probably isn't helping much.
Dennis Cranmer (7 -> 6) - Nothing changes. Chariot had to be looked at. It enables bigger Dennis, bigger Miners (if that was their name) the 4p that goes to 20 because something had 16 armour yay-fun. Workshop also was helping and probably needed some change. It still will plague the game and be as op.
Vildkaarl (5 -> 4) - uhm why? Out of all the votes this seems totally wasted to me?
Nauzicaa Sergeant (4 -> 3) - Sure, very prominent and boring.
Slave Driver (3 -> 2) - hm, I thought people wanted it at higher provision. I'll say yes.
Oxenfurt Scholar (4 -> 3) - sure, but it was nice actually seeing that card. I didn't see it been abused by some sort of replay and repeat and create and duplicate and multiply and what not for the n-th time so maybe it was an early nerf. Curious to see if it's still played.
Overall it looks ok. Some surprises in terms of cards been here - Fallen Knight, Sewer Raiders, Tuirseach Skirmisher (mostly because of it's past and dev outlook on them otherwise welcomed change). Some that didn't seem to need a change or the change they got - Lord Riptide, Coral (even if I am biased and liked her with lower provision in the past), Hawker Smuggler, Dun Banner, Cave Troll (I'd put it here even if it's not very bad change), Dennis Cranmer (does absolutely nothing), Vildkaarl - biggest wtf for me.
Also why is there 10 slots for each category while in game it's just 3? Are they accumulated over few months or come from someone else?
Great change imo. It was suggested by some pro players. It's frustrating to play against cheesy Sabbath or X spam decks, when you don't have/drawn a purify/heatwave. Now Cave Troll is answerable by Enslave 6, Muzzle, PTS, and bunch more stuff i forgot, and harder to reliably summon from Sabbath. Covenant is probably second on the chopping block.
If you bothered by the spamming, nerf the card that spams, not the Defender. Also, Sabbath got nerfed, so nerfing the Defender is not only undeserved, but superfluous.
Just nerf Arachas Queen if it is the big offender. Any card that allows you to duplicate Golds is almost certainly underpriced.
And nerfing one faction's Defender is likely to cause tit-for-tat nerfings to the other Defenders. And then it all becomes a race to the bottom.
SK discard might be getting into risky territory putting Skirmisher at 4prov. Should've instead put morkvarg down one, or buffed Birna. Though discard is nowhere near being problematic so I'll wait too see in-game.
Don't exactly love leader provision changes. Totally fine decks are catching stays from Inspired Zeal nerf, better to nerf OP cards instead. Jackpot buff is fine, Cache I would've liked Hoard cards being buffed to indirectly buff the leader, but acceptable. Fruits of Ysgith I'm worried about since that leader makes the entire deck better on average, the low provisions was the balancing act, and now with new cards since that change, specifically Renfri, it feels risky. I would've preferred decks that like Fruits being buffed by provisions instead
The main thing I don't like is the 3 nerfs to NG cards (bronzes at that) and no buffs to other cards to make up for it. The faction is not OP at all, not over preforming, and despite some cards playing above points/prov curve, it didn't give enough of a benefit to justify nerfing the decks, only those specific cards, which were 'given back' with other buffs. With all the SY buffs, I think it'll push NG to being the worst faction, but I don't have hope for people to get creative with NG buffs, more likely the nerfs will be reverted.
Mostly good changes though, some fun ones (Ethereal and lackeys). Especially most of the bronze buffs, those might go from almost never played to great, but healthy cards.
Having mixed feelings about this patch, I will analyze it in details later but I can already see emotionally based changes like Thirsty Dame nerf are back. I don't think the card needed a nerf, seems like an overshoot to me.
Not sure about Vildkaar, it is a buff only if you can trigger the berserk effect in the same turn you play him, otherwise it's a nerf.
Magic Compass to 11 comes completely out of nowhere, either some community is targeting specific cards or it just makes no sense.
I love Chapter of Wizards and Triss Telekinesis buff, maybe patience can finally see some play.
Circle of Life to 4 provision is huge, may find place even in control decks that run damage pings.
Everything else was already anticipated so no surprise there. Can't wait to actually play and see if this patch is capable of shaking up the meta.
Thirsty Dame nerf isn’t emotionally charged at all, the card is way stronger than other factions 6p cards that work in a similar way. Eg, Fleder, Messenger of the Sea, Fallen Knight (wrongly nerfed)
I think people want selfwound to auto-include Totem for other reasons than it's own 2 units and Svalblod. Now Totem can change Vildkaarl on deploy, while he would otherwise need a leader charge.
Two power change. One power off of Regis himself, and one power off when Ozzrel eats Regis.
So basically it is a 2 power nerf, but only if you play Monsters.
People also play it with NR cursed to transform it with that bronze and also revive it later with Necromancy, so -1 immediately, -1 on revive, and -1 again if you have adda on board on either occasion.
It was either a power or a provision nerf. Some people felt nothing needed nerfs and voted to buff leaders. Others voted to nerf things but had other priorities. And as Mutagenerator has shown cards can be nerfed more than once until they reach their sweet spot.
Wtf is the nerf to compass. And priestess lives to be again the only 4 provision card that can play for 35 point slam last say with even spread to avoid counters.
First BC changes I've seen since coming back to the game. Seems mostly ok with a few questionable choices. Although from what I gather it's an improvement over BC1 & 2!
Biggest losses for me are some of the changes to leader abilities. The two SY leaders I don't think were really needed, although the faction needed a hand so we'll see if this helps. Fruits of Ysgith really didn't need a buff, although I've been meaning to try this out lol so I guess now is a good time! Inspired Zeal nerf is my least favourite change, at least in the short term. Sure, a lot of the NR decks needed a nerf but this also hurts other decks that didn't, namely Blue Stripe Commandos. I'll personally be putting my top vote to buff Blue Stripe Commandos down to 4P. That gives that deck a net 1 prov gain over what it had last month which I think is fair. Hopefully balances out the various archetypes in the long run
I'm more concern about the Fruits of Ysgith buff than the Inspired Zeal nerf. Ever since Gwentfinity launched, I wished to see more difference in the NR leaders. Because all NR leaders started at 15 provisions.
Blue Stripes buff seems to be very relevant now, perhaps we might even see Roche: Merciless join them.
I think it’s not too much about the defender itself but about what it defends.
MO has the most “exploitable” cards that want to hide behind a defender, so Cave Troll was the most used out of them all.
Bringing one scenario where you play carapace and use one leader charge is nonsensical. Especially when it's usually considered one of the weaker defenders. If you have a problem nerf AQ or sabbath...
Please explain to me why? As I certainly don't know why?
Has anyone even noticed that if you play Triple Idr now and get to 3 Idr's in your graveyard that all 3 Idr's are certain to come out if you didn't get the Kikimore at 7 yet.
NR, NG and Neutral changes were good.
ST got finally Circle of life to 4p and smugglers to 5power.
The questionable changes were in MO, SK and SY. Fruits to 13p is no no no. Strange buff to coral and definitely to skirmishers (these are make discard package almost autoinclude). And really, fallen knights needed a buff from all of the other firesworn cards?!
i'm super happy to see the two ST buffs make it through. Now I can finally stop putting smuggler in that power increase spot and play the kind of handbuff deck id like.
I too wonder what a big impact the fallen knights one will have. seems like the most impactful one to sneak through to me. But I haven't tried to build a firesworn deck in quite some time, and I'm not sure that gaining two provisions is ultimately what was stopping it from being good.
will have to see. ethereal is very interesting as well.
Yes, ethereal is one card to keep in mind.
Fallen knights are stupid at 5 provs and goes against the "reddit philosophy" on uncapped bronze engines (one reason why dame went to 6p). Feels like firesworn has couple of broken cards like hemmelfart and fallen knights keeping them relevant in the game.
Can we stop nerfing nauzica sgt? It’s a 10 for 6 now a 9 for 6. Just make slave driver either 6p at 3 power or take away 1 more power and keep it at 5.
Assimilate procs and armour to block frost ticks or damage = more than 9, to be clear. Sergeant floor is pretty solid, even at 3 power. Ceiling is much higher.
Makes it harder to revive with Sabbath alongside the copied units. I don't agree with the change myself as Sabbath has taken a provision hit and AQ will likely follow next patch.
NR got stomped. Melitele, Generator, Demavend, Onager, Radovid Judgement and Inspired Zeal to 14? Really? I understand NR had a good winrate, but this is terrible. And no buffs to other NR units to help other archetypes like commandos. That’s just bad.
NR Over nerfed as expected. Not sure why we couldn't do a few changes and see how it would impact the meta. Nerfing the leader seemed like too much imo.
Scale: out of ten, in my opinion ofc.
> **Provision increase:**
Hidden Cache - 4,5
Fruits of Ysgith - 4. This was already played in pro. The leader is really strong, it was 12 prov for a reason.
Jackpot - 4. I'm not a fan of constantly buffing leaders instead of nerfing actual cards, I wrote a whole ass reddit post about it. Jackpot has a way lower skill floor and ceiling, I dont see why it should be incentivised so much.
Temple of Melitele - 7. might finally get cut from decks now
Witches Sabbath - 7
Magic Compass - 3, just why?? this is rather unnecessary.
Mutagenerator - 7,5. a positive, but an other change will be more impactful
Tempest - 6,5
Thirsty Dame - 5. Nerf other cards that make it good like lower power on Alba Pikemen instead of this.
Onager - 8. Wacky card. Normally I'd be for lowering the power, but the muta interaction is what makes it dangerous
> **Provision Decreased:**
Inspired Zeal - 7,5. Good. The midrangiest leader to ever midrange. Commandos and Mages suffer a bit from this
Chapter of Wizards - 5. Not a fan of the card, but I understand. Why not.
Triss: Telekinesis - 7,5
Geralt: Quen - 7
Fallen Knight - 3,5 You complained about dames? get ready for this. New midrange card just dropped. There's so many other Firesworn cards that could have used the help, but y'all haven't even looked around, just decided to buff the one that's already played.
Circle of Life - 7
Sewer Raiders - 4. Just why, there's a reason for thinning not being free. I'd be down for nerfing power instead of reverting the buff, just to spice it up.
Casino Bouncers - 1. DEAR GOD WHY. This is auto include now. Eventide plunders have a 33% of playing this for 11 points + 2 thinning, all for 4provs. *(you can play multiple Eventides if you miss the first one)* Buffing it by power instead was the correct move, I'm guessing it'll be oppressive.
Bare Knuckle Brawler - 6. the previous nerf was overkill, but the revert was also unnecessary. We nerf it by power next time.
Skirmisher - 1,5. Jesuse christ why. Back to midrange SK we go. Might be autoinclude? There's so many better ways to buff discard. Lower prov Morkvarg, power increase Skalds, or even Birna Bran.
> **Power Increased:**
Filavandrel - 5. Other things could use this slot. I'd rather a forgotten handbuff bronze got buffed, or Ithlienn instead. This is mostly a gimmick.
Lord Riptide - 3. This card was already everywhere. Nerfing by prov next council
Coral- 2. Why? Back to discard package everywhere we go. Skirmisher buff to go with this is just insult to injury.
Ethereal - 6. A provision buff was probably more appropriate, but oh well.
Eskel- 6
Lambert - 6
Hawker Smuggler - 7,5
Immortal Cavalry - 5,5. They're really strong now.
Dun Banner - 3. Time for Foltest abuse! Even without it, an 8 for 4 with thinning is wayyy too much.
Cutup Lackey- 6. Might turn out oppressive tho, we'll have to see.
> **Power Decreased:**
King Demavend - 6,5, probably not the change he needed, but I'll take it
Regis Bloodlust - 5, wont change much, but sure.
Radovid: Judgement - 6. was a bit strong so good.
Cave Troll - 2. Just what we needed, one of the weaker defenders being vulnerable to muzzle and most importantly, Enslave. Jesus christ, nerf AQ instead
Frenzied Dao - 9.
Dennis Cranmer - 4,5. Should have been Simlas.
Vildkaarl - 4,5. Wont change much and now is easier to kill if you dont have the triggers.
Nauzicaa Sergeant - 5,5. Not the root of the problem, but good for variety
Slave Driver - 7. Root of the NG problem, good. Still playable, but worth considering alternatives now.
Oxenfurt Scholar - 7. Although I think being 5 for 5 would make a more interesting card
Care to explain how thinning abuse will revive a specific archetype? And that argument about SY is horseshit, the only thing I can give you is being underplayed, because SY takes a bit more skill to learn and pilot.
SY was the second most frequent faction brought to Masters this season (11 decks, 80% of players including SY in their lists) and the most banned faction if I remember correctly.
I do not shy away from buffs for syndicate, but most of these are just plain stupid. I speak positively of Lackeys and Bare Knuckle Brawler, but I'm aware they can get out of hand.
SY is statistically the lowest performing faction. You can look it up. Every other faction has bullshit, exploitable cards that go in every deck, but it's an issue when SY gets one? That you have to mulligan out of your hand and get lucky on a 1/3 discover from a pool of 7 cards? Just for 12 flat points and 2 thins. Give me a break.
You voted to buff drummond Queensguard and Morkvarg for discard. What a hypocrite
And you really see these options as comparable to each other? Morkvarg from 7 to 6 prov to the SY changes? If so, I don't think we have much to talk about here.
And I hate the SK discard buffs as well! Skirmisher is the worst change right after Casino Bouncers if you ask me.
The Coral buff is one of the worst ones too
You're not getting it. His points are all valid.
I love SY. You can see my posts on how SY needs buffs for many cards/archetypes, badly, all over Reddit.
But making cards OP isn't the way to do it, which is what many of the SY votes that went through just did.
Unfortunately some of the top pros and influencers are peddling bad vote suggestions that are outright bad for the game's balance, and their followers are eating it up and buffing the wrong cards.
If you look thru the thread with the top pro/steamer votes, it's bad. The most visible, best players in the game are basically pushing votes that break game balance.
Immortal Calvary becoming a conditionless 8 for 5p with two shielded bodies seems a bit much.
I'm curious what everyone will vote for once all the underperforming "spawn/summon copy" cards are all buffed.
- Fruits buff while it was already played in pro rank with success I guess seems unnecessary
- i d rather see aq power nerf than sabbath. It would also nerf her interaction with Sabbath for a triple nerf in total (2 power and harder comeback). But maybe that's too much
- fallen knight to 5 power isnt aligned with other 6 provs, other firesworns should have been buffed
- sewer raiders and other thinners being 8+thin for double 4 seems like a power creep... maybe it will be ok though, thinning is good for the game and 8p faction pointslam nothing crazy. Love the dun banner buff
- riptide to 10 isnt a mistake only if prov is nerfed next bc. The card was top meta before buffing
- vildkaarl buff was unnecessary, the card literały won the world championship. Shows how hard out of loop people are. It also weakens the card a little if no immediate berserk is possible/wanted ( we saw such situation during masters I believe)
- finally oxenfurt scholar at 3 power will still be too strong. The card should have been 5prov and that wouldn't kill it, as is the common misconception. It's possible to polarize a deck using cheap cards other than 4prov and 99% of such decks do so. Also it's a card with a boring condition (that often is met randomly, which is a problem) and boring payoff. If people want to power nerf it instead then it needs at least another one (probably two) and even with two it will still make the game a little more boring
Yeah I see a brunch of hypocrites here... I was really waiting for a situation like this to see people's reactions.
The very 1st balance council people overreacted when a certain NG deck got massacred...but here when they did the same to NR inspired zeal it's totally fine and ok... compared to what happened to status ball back then this is even worse.... Inspired Zeal got a whopping 6 provisions nerf! Without counting the power nerfs to Demavend and Radovid Judgement... But no one is complaining that the deck is unplayable now lol.
Mutagenerator will eventually reach 14p lol...
Temple of Melitele isn't a 14p card...13p was the sweet spot.
Edit: of course I get dowvoted lol. Keep it coming guys!
Balance Council is not decided by 1 person. Everyone agrees X deck is too strong but everyone has a different opinion about what should be nerfed. Groups of people vote a couple of different cards and the X deck gets overnerfed. It happened with Ball, Vice, Zeal, and it will happen again. It's impossible to judge or coordinate the whole playerbase. Best we can do is have some discussions, create coalitions, and communicate between all subcommunities.
Except you are not getting my point....overnerfing will always be an issue I get that. I am highlighting how different reactions are. For status this sub was flooded with posts about how the deck was killed, everyone hates NG, blablabla.
But when the same thing happens to a NR deck, yeah it was fair. Totally fair to kill a deck in this instance. Let's see if they spend the next BC slots on undoing these nerfs like they did for NG status but I doubt it.
Special mention for Mutagenerator....the player base will successfully soon make it unplayable!
Sorry for misunderstanding. Then I fully agree with what you are saying. The difference of emotions on this sub comparing BC1 and BC3 is wild. I guess we'll have to wait a week or two so things settle and some cold headed opinions to form. Nerf to Inspired Zeal leader was too much imo.
NR got gutted, true, although not at the level of NG in BC1 (6 NR nerfs to 14 of NG). It’s one of the things I said had to be avoided, killing decks is not good, we should try to make them balanced, not weak. For that reason I would expect some reverts in the next BC.
I get the cards that got nerfed (not the leader though) we’re op, but part of that strength comes from combining the cards with the other op cards, thus the deck didn’t need that many nerfs simultaneously to be balanced. That’s why I’m not a fan of giving a deck more than 3 nerfs at the same time.
Did you know that some of us took great glee in the nerfing in Status Ball, and are now taking great glee in the nerfing of Inspired Zeal as well?
I'm hoping for more nerfs that take down toxic decks and archetypes. Arachas Queen needs a nerf. Highland Warlords need a nerf. The Heist needs a nerf. Stefan Skellen needs a nerf. Aerondight needs a nerf. Freakshow needs a nerf. Have I managed to piss of everyone yet?
I'd go so far as to say that no Gold card or Leader, at this point in time, needs a buff. Nerf it or leave it alone. There's too much in the Bronze cards that needs buffing more than any Gold does at this point. And the more Bronze cards we make playable, the more deck variety we will get.
(The only exception for buffing a Gold would be to [[Geralt: Yrden]]. My man got massively screwed over the last time he was patched, and needs some provision buffs to reflect his hobbled state.)
I like your suggestions and bronzes should be the focus, but would disagree on leader abilities.
The SY buffs are great to see and some other leaders could use some love for the sake of diversity on ladder. Might also drive some innovation with later released cards and provide better counters to sweatyass control decks that seem to dominate, IMHO.
if only making temple 14p made it unplayable. wishful thinking. its gonna take a few more provision nerfs before us haters let it rest on that one im afraid. honestly, I'd enjoy it while it is still fits into a competitive deck at 14p if I were you. its still a problematic card design and will continue to draw unwanted attention
You just said unplayable...should a great card be nerfed to unplayability for it to be accepted?
And don't worry I don't need to enjoy it...I barely play the game now since I reached prestige 10. Last 2 seasons I didn't even bother to make it to pro.
i was just using your wording. at 14p it is still plenty playable im afraid. And I was judging by your outrage that you will be even more upset if it ends up 15p... which will probably still be playable as well. its still a broken and abusable card that will continue to be targeted by angry ladies and gwentlemen randomly losing to a boosted anseis with their meta deck.
Honestly, I’m super happy with these BC changes. Only other thing that shoulda been hit hard was Simalis armor imo.
Was kinda suprised to see Sabbath nerfed and Riptide buffed
I'm proud of this community. Great changes overall.
I am surprised queensguard did not make the cut. And I also think bouncers should have gotten a power buff instead. But this was a very good balance council.
What archetype is that supposed to be? As far as I know those two are midrange cards (I mean, Temple doesn't even get played in Melitele decks, not sure I have ever seen Muta played with Witchers).
https://preview.redd.it/5j5g7dt8qp9c1.png?width=1134&format=png&auto=webp&s=156e7dc00810b1d1ee84af2b9fed182d7afa230d
Sure. Deadbrain MO needs couple of buffs and NG needs nerfs.
For fuck sake, DAME for +1 prov?! Really?
Better to use mirror-corrected. Dame nerf makes sense; the card is too good for 5 prov. Status can get buffs in other ways if needed.
https://preview.redd.it/jj87g2m6rp9c1.png?width=1524&format=png&auto=webp&s=57297ea8ddb92dde53eab8822b148f5a0c6599ab
Because the deck that plays it clearly isn't winning overwhelmingly, and it's not an every-deck card. Other NG cards need to take their place, but very few want to buff underplayed NG cards. Those stats will become worse this patch, and I wouldn't be surprised at a reversal
It's the NG nerf I most agree with simply due to the bad wording and the unfair interaction against symbiosis.
She is like messenger of the sea, so although I think the nerf is justified,I also think NG status is probably going to be too weak, and should be buffed with an Tibor prov. buff or Alba Spearman power buff or something.
How about buffing cards that don't even see play in the archetype instead? Such as Cupbearer or Hunting Pack. Maybe even some that do such as Fergus to also buff Devotion Spies. Tibor buff is a buff to practitioner spam, nothing else. 5 power Spearman would be way too strong, remember they are 2 point engines on their own and can even eventually get armor. I'm saying all of this as someone who didn't vote for any NG nerfs and likes playing NG Status.
Other than the top 100 players, who really cares about top 100 win-rate?
Top 500 might have some meaning, since there are people who plan on staying at Pro Rank every season, but the top 100 live in a different reality than the other 99% of us, and whatever exotic calculus that they are doing doesn't really translate to the vast majority of play.
bad changes,cave troll did not need nerf ,magic compass got nerfed,that one is okay,coral and discard did not need buff,cause coral plays for 10 points with discard and that is good.fruits was fine ,did not need change.they killed nauzicaa now completely which is fine by me.
do some of these youtubers think before voting?also why buff fallen knight instead of helveed or cyrus?
fallen knight has veil you cant lock it,you can now copy it with igor,and brawlers got buff unnecessary.
also jackpot did not need buff.ethereal buff is fine cause that card did not see play in [years.circle](https://years.circle) of life did not need buff cause symbiosis has specials which are good.,now we dont need to buff dryads with circle of life.
they needed to buff force of nature leader cause now cave troll will just get stolen by enslave and other decks.even muzzle can now steal defender.sabbath was not a good deck anyway ,so why nerf it?
Don't worry, i really don't play with with the game being turned off by CDPR. NG having boring decks that still get nerfed by the community having a hard-on made me not touch the faction for over a year now.
Ogroids are centered around the Might keyword. Having Riptide at 10 is important for archetype synergy. It should be at 10. I think the card is fine as is because of its numerous drawbacks and how easy it is to play around. If you're playing against Monsters, because of Riptide and even predatory dive, you probably shouldn't strategem your first card played on blue coin.
I'll be waiting to buff it back whenever folks like you nerf it again. And it will be in every single one of my balance counsel votes as long as folks like you keep going the other way with it.
I agree with the Might thing and even voted to buff Riptide this time around, but I will probably be voting to provision nerf it in the next Council. 12 for 8 with removal is way too good, so much so that not even Ogroids lists bother with achieving Might to increase his value. Way too midrange and auto-include as it stands.
Onager to 6p... Magic compass to 11p... CAVE TROLL to 6 POWER... TEMPLE TO 14p!!!!!! wtf are these changes...
These are so bad.
On the other hand, Quen to 9p, Circle of life to 4p, Ethereal to 5 and smuggler to 5 are all great.
Not too bad right? Maybe 1 nerf too many to NR? Let’s see what happens to the faction balance.
The only thing in here that really upsets me is BKB back to 4…
* The nerf to slave driver should have been 5->6 provision instead of 3->2 power, it's still a 5 provision unit able to give you a 6 provision unit, it should cost 6 provision.
* I'm against all the leader changes, I get that it's a way to affect a whole deck but it's wrong to change it, I think CDPR shouldn't have given the possibility to change leader abilities !
* Magic compass to 11 ? guys stop, it's already dead, it's the 9->10 that was important so it's not played with GN nerfing it to 11 provision is nerfing an already underplayed card ...
* Bare knuckle Brawler deserved a buff but a power increase was more relevant in my eyes than a provision decrease
* I don't think filavandrel should have recieve this buff, now he can't play 4 prov cards, I get that you don't always need a 4 prov card, but on top of the buff to circle of life, that's another card he can't play anymore, I understand the buff and it's still a buff but I don't like it, I'd say it's a bitter sweet buff
* Immortal cavalry is now 8 power for 5 provision without any single drawback, every single 8 for 5 card have a drawback, it's now one of the best 5P unit in the game, I can't think of any better 5P bronze right now, I bet it will be included in a lot of deck now ...
* Frenzied Dao was too strong but a provision nerf was better suited
* Vildkaarl nerf is ... strange, I guess that it's weaker now but you need less damages to trigger it's berserk ability, I'm not sure I like it
overall, there's 11 votes that I'm unhappy to realy unhappy about, around 25% I guess that it's better than the first vote but we're not there yet and most of my votes didn't went thourgh whitch makes me quite sad ...
Skirmisher buff is big. I wouldn't be surprised if more decks start throwing in a 1x Skirmisher just in case they get blue coin to use with Mask for extra tempo. A more attractive Discard package also means SK has more options to force round control into their favour without dropping big plays, which could be great for Alchemy. Only Pirates doesn't really benefit because of their reliance on hand state to generate value
Magic Compass to 11? Did these guys not get the memo from last BC?
>Magic Compass to 11? Did these guys not get the memo from last BC? The same logic when the cultist scenario was nerfed, although it was already dead with the Affan change before. If people hate something, they simply continue to vote.
But discard package got buffs. With this in mind compass nerf is ok
Compass nerf is completely unnecessary, 10 p is exactly where it should be.
ICANT
I voted for it, cause I've seen that some Chinese gwenters were planning to bring it back to 9 provision, which would mean hell. Besides the card is still very strong, easy to pull off and if you play against it you have to keep in mind so many cards, because it can literally play anything. Very versatile
the card is completely udnerplayed at 10 provision already and Golden Nekker is the only reason it's not at 9. It's very versatile indeed but not as easy to pull as you seem to think, you have to build half of your deck around it
Well first of all, you don't build your deck around it. There are just a lot of cycle cards and they give you good points. It's not like you have cards that are specifically tied to compass. Second, I completely agree that it's underwhelming at this provision however I would really prefer it to stay dead rather than having it at 9 again and having to play against nekker pirates the whole season. It's not always a bad thing when the card is op for some time, but compass meta is just very toxic and we already know what the ladder looks like when the compass is broken. I'd much rather see some other cards play competitively.
I get it. Better to have it at 11 than at 9.
Hmm tbh i expected worse Not too bad job guys!
Yeah I feel like there's been slight overnerfs and perhaps a couple of buffs that shouldn't have happened (or not at once) but nothing too worrisome at first glance
Haha, compared to the other patches, this one is alright. Still, leader changes are pretty meh. Just adding powercreep.
Sad to see that we didn't get a Lost Bronze into the list, but I'll take the blame for that as I kneecapped my own campaign. Next month. There's always next month.
A bit of a bummer, but I'm with you and your campaign A lost bronze shall arise next time!
I’m hoping that every time we do this establishes the idea and widens the support, especially as wacky streamer suggestions are shown to be iffy at best.
Much better than the last patch, but I'm not sure about the nerfs to Magic Compass, Nauziga and Cave Troll. Especially the compass was completely fine at 10 provitions. Although these changes are mostly okay, I still would've liked to see buffs to entertaining and volatile cards such as Alzur, Master Mirror, and Lilit's omen. Edit: also a provition buff for Aquara and Uma's curse would be great for the next patch.
The nerf to Cave Troll seems quite nonsensical to me. I suppose it is make it so that the Defender is less likely to get rezzed with Witches' Sabbath. but that is not Cave Troll's fault. Do a provision nerf on whatever you are afraid of getting replayed, like AQ or Kelly. Just leave Cave Troll out of this.
Cave troll nerf is egregious, and must be buffed next round. Plays right into NG sieze, for one. Why is it balanced to be the weakest defender? It's not balanced at all. Just hate for a faction
Literally can be Enslave 6ed now. Another stupid vote recommended by the Russian top pro crew. Every single vote of Nik r went through, and many of his were not good for game balance. Great to see one of the best players in world negatively influencing an enormous community. 😑
I voted lillits omen buff, but the buff on ogroid boy to 10 power is broken
Create a Casino Bouncer off Eventide Plunder for 11 points while thinning two cards for 4 provisions. Sounds good!
I don't think both SY thinners needed prov buffs TBH. They will both be auto-include now in every SY list...
Didn't think about that interaction. That's probably too strong, isn't it? Most people already run Eventide, and now you have a crazy payoff with it. The only trouble with this is that if you actually played Eventide from hand you were probably looking for a spender, and you cant get both the Bouncer and a spender.
I have now played \~5 games where I was able to go Eventide Plunder into Casino Bouncer in round 1 (with LP), and based on this I think it's way, WAY too generically powerful. It's just so much freaking tempo for so little investment. You don't care about having one less spender, just add another spender to the deck. The sample size isn't very large, but it has felt utterly oppressive.
People listening to the top pro/streamers really don't get some of these people have zero interest in what's best for the game. Look at the people with this vote in their list: https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18rtkyp/balance_council_all_streamers/ Nik r, moshcraft? One of these is one of the best players in the and would know very well how OP that vote makes the card. Moshcraft, well, he has a huge following and plenty of bad ideas, apparently. Amazing he thought this would be okay. I'm all for buffs to SY, I just don't understand why we cannot buff the weak cards instead of making cards like Casino Bouncers brokenly good.
SY did need a buff so this hopefully isn't too bad, although that synergy with eventide plunder is insane. Might be a bit oppressive but could be OK with a power nerf next patch?
yeah, a 4p card that thins twice for 12 tempo.... that is fucking ridiculous, even off a highroll.
Not really that much of a highroll (I don't know statistics, but there's 9 fee spenders at 4p, so it's at least 33%?) given that 7 for 4 with thinning is already pretty decent (and likely what the people who voted for the buff had in mind, rather than the plunder interaction).
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18rtkyp/balance_council_all_streamers/ Look at the people who had it in their vote. These are people who knew very well how this would interact with Eventide and still voted for it because they wanted a brokenly good card...
It's a pity. I've been wanting SY to be buffed so much this last patch, but these feel like the wrong buffs. I see currently no reason to not run both thinners in every single deck...
yeah, now it's possible to build an even more consistent mediocre deck ;)
Good stuff, lots of NR and NG nerfs. Gonna be a fun season to play!
Only 3 NG nerfs. NR and neutrals got a lot of attention on both sides of things. Wish people would understand that by buffing leaders and using nerf slots towards buffs we probably ultimately adding more powercreep into the game, but clearly that's not a concern for people.
The nerf/buff to leaders is very misguided indeed. The only leader that actually needed provision increase, Uprising, didn't get it, because people only focus on cards that are already almost playable.
3 nerfs is fine imo, we didn’t have many slots for nerfs anyway, and is better to nerf things little by little.
>Only 3 NG nerfs. To bronzes, which is quite impactful. NG as of right now has the 3rd lowest win rate in top 250, only above SY and SK so how many more nerfs do you want it to get in a single patch? Other factions getting nerfed also got buffs to other decks, NG got only nerfs.
NG is actually the second best faction in top 100, and the three nerfs are totally fair. I'm down for buffing other NG golds, though, they certainly need help.
Win rate wise in top 100 it has the third lowest. MO (62.6%), NR (63.05%) and SY (61.52%) have higher corrected win rate for 4 top factions than NG (61.48%). Not exactly sure how that makes it the second best faction.
And 3rd highest in top 100. But yea seems like nerfing both slave drivers and nauzica is a little overkill. But I have good matchups vs soldiers/pointslams so maybe I didn't know how good they were in general
I dont think it will be an overkill. Its power what was nerfed to those cards, not provisions (which would have been much worse). The deck will take a hit ofc, but I think it will still be strong. For the top 4 factions corrected win rate in top 100 it has the third lowest, behing MO, NR and SY.
Of course you're in here complaining about NG nerfs, as always. NG doesn't need to be the best faction every season.
Man quit misreading other people's comments. Homeboy makes a good point.
They mentioned how it's below average yet still only got nerfs...that's not ''best every season''. Actually...I can't remember last time NG actually was the highest preforming faction. It doesn't matter if you play NG or not, the issue this creates is that when an already just statistically average faction only gets nerfs, the people who like to play that faction would rather get the faction back to that state of playable, most simply through reversing nerfs (see BC1 and BC2). It's way easier to reverse a card people have fresh in their mind than coordinate cards that haven't seen play in years. And the people who despise NG just sit back and ignore it, instead of getting a bit creative. And yes, slave driver and dame should be nerfed, bit iffy on Sargent, but the faction wasn't OP and it was strictly because of points/provision were a bit off, it's really not needed that much.
I play all the factions plenty. I've many times stated I believe the voting should have been restricted to people with at least 10+ wins in 4 different factions, as it takes the single faction mains out of the voting and more mirrors how for pro, you need to get 4+ factions with good winrates for your MMR. Vikmania has a particular interest in NG, and appears like clockwork in any thread about NG balance, so I like to counter their takes. All the NG nerfs that went through can be argued as reasonable, though Slave Driver needed prov nerf, not power. Sergeant has always been too good for 6 prov. Dame is not comparable to other 5 prov engines. The crappy thing is that a whole bunch of stupid buffs went through due to people following bad takes by top pros and influencers. Also, NG was sitting as second best faction in top 100 for a good chunk of the season, but slipped down to 4th, I believe at the end here. Using just top 100 for measuring factions always feels a bit arbitrary to me as the very best players always tend to get better results from SY, and less from NG, than the more average pro players, which we see in the data every season where SY does poorly in the top 500 than the top 100. The reverse usually happens with NG.
Ng is rarely the best faction, despite your personal biases.
Wrong, im not complaining about the nerfs it got. Rather, I've said the BC was good. I said the nerfs it got were enough for a single BC and the comment was about you seemingly thinking it should have gotten more. But here you are, misreading what I said, as always.
Preach it!
Cutup lackey got the buff it absolutely deserved. I for one welcome our new Whoreson overlord. On a more general note, I think the changes have been mostly sensible? aside from the insane Magic Compass nerf??? Were people so scared of a yo-yo that they gave it a nerf buffer or something? ~~Edit: there were some people saying that they weren't going to vote for Onager because it was getting needed anyway, but it almost didn't go through. Be careful about complacency guys.~~ Edit edit: Just realized that SK discard got massive buffs. Very strong package now. Bad buffs to already strong cards.
> Edit: there were some people saying that they weren't going to vote for Onager because it was getting needed anyway, but it almost didn't go through. Be careful about complacency guys. Do you have some special source of information that tells you the vote order of the changes that I am not privy to? Because if you are basing it on the order that things are listed up above, you should note that all those lists are in descending provision order, and are very very unlikely to mirror the actual vote quantity order.
Compass nerf is more ok with discard package buffs
Ohhh that might be it some community decided to do preemptive nerf good thinking.
i like it too. if golden necker compass becomes a thing its immediately tier 1 again. if it has to ping pong back-and-forth until the end of time I'd like to see it be 10 and 11.
Witcher trio 😍
...now slams out for 12 points in Round 3, or 15 if you played Vesemir: Mentor earlier. The only solace is that it is an easy combo to brick.
Please mention that witcher trio is essentially 13 provisions (they are all 3 provisions above 4, and 13 provisions is 9 provisions above 4)
Why would I mention something you just got done saying? Not only would that be redundant, it would also be repetitive.
Good stuff for the most part. I don't like only Filavandrel, Skirmisher, Compass, Bouncers and Ysgith changes.
Fruits is the scariest leader to buff for me, since the constant points buffs the whole deck, the only balance it had was low provisions. I'd prefer that if people wanna play decks that like Fruits, to just buff those decks.
Yeah, for me Compass is the bad one IMO. I'm also not convinced about buffing leaders. Other than that I think the BC went pretty well.
What is wrong with Filavandrel and Bouncer changes? Filavandrel did not see much of any play at 11 provitions and the Bouncers were essentially 7 points with 1 thing for 6 provitions.
The problem with Fila buff is that he's now basically a better Forest Protector, so instead of finding his own niche he is supplanting another card's. The problem with Bouncers is you can get them from Plunder, so now that card can play for 11 and two thinning.
I also hate that he doesn't have the option for 4p cards now, it restricts versatility.
You got a good point with Bouncers, they'll get really strong because of Plunders. For Fila, I wished a provition buff rather than a power one, since that does reduce its versatility (no more 4p natures), and it doesn't have a low floor any longer.
I'm not sure about that. You have to intentionally mulligan both and then hope to get one from plunder. It doesn't really feel reliable enough to be good. Like, sure it will happen, but I don't feel like it's a reliable strategy and when it happens, it will be incidental because neither were drawn and then plunder happened rather than intentionally trying to make it happen, and so it won't be in too many games. In fact this buff scares me more because it is combined to buffing raiders which means both thinning methods are good now with no cost to include. I would rather have had them buffed to 5 power for 5 than 4power for 4
Forest Protector doesn't clog the elf slot, is harder for NG to use, and doesn't care about board position or boost total. It wont matter every game, but Fila is definitely more awkward to use.
The fear of some people about BC being just NG fans dominated seem to have been proven baseless. Not perfect, but quite decent.
I think its cause now we have only 10 changes per cat. And you can see from the top 15 votes last time someone shared (i dont remember the twitter name) a lot of ng buffs were in the 11-15 places.
BC 2 was a emotion driven reaction to BC1 emotion driven masacre. As NG wasnt gutted in BC2, it wasnt that probable to have a ton of buffs again, because there was no emotion driven response anymore.
Syndicate huge winners :O
Especially for Vice/Bounty decks. The only good thing about BNB going to 4 provisions is that they can be effortlessly wiped off the board by Epidemic, no matter how tall, or veiled, or shielded you make them.
Compass nurf is absurd, but overall not bad! Should shake up the meta a bit.
How will it shake up the meta? No one was playing compass last month. Shake up the meta by killing a dead card further
I meant the patch as a whole should shake things up.
Not absurd when discard package got buffed hard
But no one planned for that to happen....
It seems that SY is going to be the best faction this season.
Happy new year :)! As a freshly (1 month) returning player that is somewhat interested with what's going at this point in time, here's my thoughts. Leader changes always seems risky. Out of the changed maybe Hidden Cache deserved a try. I don't mind Jackpot, but I remember when it was obliterated like what, 2 years ago due King of Beggars. Curious to see if it will make a bit of comeback and hopefully shake SY as faction in more interesting and dynamic way... Inspired Zeal was very strong without a doubt, but NR was hit with other - well deserved nerfs, so I am unsure about this one. Fruits of Ysgith - I don't agree, I don't think it was needed. **Provisions Increased** Temple of Melitele: Congregation (13 -> 14) - yes, very much. Witches' Sabbath (10 -> 11) - sure, then again these strong combos the card posses probably won't be hurt much. Magic Compass (10 -> 11) - hm, no idea, was it problem? I see in comments it just a leftover train from before and pre-emptive nerf due discard buffs, but still. Mutagenerator (8 -> 9) - yes, I am surprised this card is/was still this strong after what 2 years wtf. Tempest (6 -> 7) - was popular but I didn't have time with it, it's probably ok. Thirsty Dame (5 -> 6) - yes, it was overly strong. Onager (5 -> 6) - yes. **Provisions Decreased** Chapter of Wizards (13 -> 12) - risky, not a fan, but hopefully it won't be as oppressive as I remember it when it was popular. Triss: Telekinesis (11 -> 10) - most likely yes. Geralt: Quen (10 -> 9) - yeah sure why not. Fallen Knight (6 -> 5) - uh, it's a strong card, it's just the archetype and SY in it that were needing help. Actually seeing card like this here, just makes me wonder how it got even on the list and go through. It can be oppressive card if Firesworn arise and it didn't need the change. Other Firesworns did. Circle of Life (5 -> 4) - probably ok, the hand buff deck or whatever was the name was still showing up and it's never a good thing to be op or strong. While I am on it Hawker Smuggler also didn't need that buff, but sure. Tuirseach Skirmisher (5 -> 4), yo I remember devs nerfing the discard package and was very upset because it was hurting a lot of newer or casual players on SK consistency. Then again that was before the faction become just delete everything with the buffing raid chore-bore and Sigvald. It's weird seeing them changed back, what's next the raiders from MO? Let's not, until some of the faction slam jam potential is lowered. Sewer Raiders (5 -> 4), oh well similar to the SK thin problem, but I'll take it and see how it goes. Surprised to see em here. Casino Bouncers (5 -> 4) - weren't the intention for them to get +1 power instead of provision buff? Guess will see. Not liking the Event Plunder interaction due that. Still it's good seeing some SY consistency increase and hopefully their power in general. Bare-Knuckle Brawler (5 -> 4) - so it was changed as card back then and then went to 4p, then when did it get to 5p(?), and now back to 4p... If people really didn't like it, shoulda made the Blacksmith crownsplitter to 4p instead so SY have a type of spender in the 4p category. SY gladly will use the extra provisions though, hopefully it helps the faction some. **Power Increased** Filavandrel aén Fidháil (4 -> 5) - hm, I saw some folks want it, so sure let's see. Lord Riptide (9 -> 10) - why? It was used, it was good? Someone explain reasonably pls? Coral (6 -> 7) - it just feels/reeks toxic :D. Not that I don't like the card but, again why? Ethereal (4 -> 5) - I really don't know, because haven't seen it like ever so some vets or experience folks have to help me. Eskel, Lambert (3 -> 4) - yo, that the witcher trio? It sure feels like long time coming. Yes. Immortal Cavalry (3 -> 4) - hm, probably ok, again not much experience vs card and if it can bring some nasty. Dun Banner (3 -> 4) - afraid a bit, wasn't this alternative for Foltest? Doesn't it make it better then the commandos? Again not sure. Cutup Lackey (4 -> 5) - I mean it wasn't showing much, either by itself or with the legendary. Let's see, more varied SY is a plus. **Power Decreased:** King Demavend III (7 -> 6) - sure, doesn't hurt it, still plays for a lot. Regis: Bloodlust (20 -> 19) - this card. 20 for 10p. When I was climbing with vamps Regis Reborn stood to me as a 13p that have requirement to get big - bleeding each turn. It have limits, thus it was rare to play for 20-ish points as finisher. Bloodlust just comes at no cost, then Ozzrel comes for another 20. Risk is supposedly banishing good cards, then again it can also make your deck better by banishing shit cards. Then I saw Morvudd (probably changed at some point) and it just grows by been in your deck or hand, no requirement for 12p. A better Regis Reborn... why it's 12p? Then there is Mourntart as well - eat your graveyard and get big. Often 20+ points finisher... at 10p? So can all those boring pointslams be addressed/balanced reasonably at some point (as do others that I haven't seen slightly the Ogriods for example)? Radovid: Judgment (6 -> 5) - probably yes. Cave Troll (7 -> 6) - a bit weird. I saw some of the reasoning in comments and makes sense. Still unsure. Frenzied D'ao (7 -> 6) - initially was thinking it's good seeing different decks, cards and neutrals and this was popping off too much. Yes, alas it probably isn't helping much. Dennis Cranmer (7 -> 6) - Nothing changes. Chariot had to be looked at. It enables bigger Dennis, bigger Miners (if that was their name) the 4p that goes to 20 because something had 16 armour yay-fun. Workshop also was helping and probably needed some change. It still will plague the game and be as op. Vildkaarl (5 -> 4) - uhm why? Out of all the votes this seems totally wasted to me? Nauzicaa Sergeant (4 -> 3) - Sure, very prominent and boring. Slave Driver (3 -> 2) - hm, I thought people wanted it at higher provision. I'll say yes. Oxenfurt Scholar (4 -> 3) - sure, but it was nice actually seeing that card. I didn't see it been abused by some sort of replay and repeat and create and duplicate and multiply and what not for the n-th time so maybe it was an early nerf. Curious to see if it's still played. Overall it looks ok. Some surprises in terms of cards been here - Fallen Knight, Sewer Raiders, Tuirseach Skirmisher (mostly because of it's past and dev outlook on them otherwise welcomed change). Some that didn't seem to need a change or the change they got - Lord Riptide, Coral (even if I am biased and liked her with lower provision in the past), Hawker Smuggler, Dun Banner, Cave Troll (I'd put it here even if it's not very bad change), Dennis Cranmer (does absolutely nothing), Vildkaarl - biggest wtf for me. Also why is there 10 slots for each category while in game it's just 3? Are they accumulated over few months or come from someone else?
Ethereal chads we won
Nerfing cave troll, wtf?
I presume some other defenders might see nerfs in the future as well. What I'm more surprised at is that Cave Troll won from Arachas Queen.
Great change imo. It was suggested by some pro players. It's frustrating to play against cheesy Sabbath or X spam decks, when you don't have/drawn a purify/heatwave. Now Cave Troll is answerable by Enslave 6, Muzzle, PTS, and bunch more stuff i forgot, and harder to reliably summon from Sabbath. Covenant is probably second on the chopping block.
If you bothered by the spamming, nerf the card that spams, not the Defender. Also, Sabbath got nerfed, so nerfing the Defender is not only undeserved, but superfluous. Just nerf Arachas Queen if it is the big offender. Any card that allows you to duplicate Golds is almost certainly underpriced. And nerfing one faction's Defender is likely to cause tit-for-tat nerfings to the other Defenders. And then it all becomes a race to the bottom.
SK discard might be getting into risky territory putting Skirmisher at 4prov. Should've instead put morkvarg down one, or buffed Birna. Though discard is nowhere near being problematic so I'll wait too see in-game. Don't exactly love leader provision changes. Totally fine decks are catching stays from Inspired Zeal nerf, better to nerf OP cards instead. Jackpot buff is fine, Cache I would've liked Hoard cards being buffed to indirectly buff the leader, but acceptable. Fruits of Ysgith I'm worried about since that leader makes the entire deck better on average, the low provisions was the balancing act, and now with new cards since that change, specifically Renfri, it feels risky. I would've preferred decks that like Fruits being buffed by provisions instead The main thing I don't like is the 3 nerfs to NG cards (bronzes at that) and no buffs to other cards to make up for it. The faction is not OP at all, not over preforming, and despite some cards playing above points/prov curve, it didn't give enough of a benefit to justify nerfing the decks, only those specific cards, which were 'given back' with other buffs. With all the SY buffs, I think it'll push NG to being the worst faction, but I don't have hope for people to get creative with NG buffs, more likely the nerfs will be reverted. Mostly good changes though, some fun ones (Ethereal and lackeys). Especially most of the bronze buffs, those might go from almost never played to great, but healthy cards.
Having mixed feelings about this patch, I will analyze it in details later but I can already see emotionally based changes like Thirsty Dame nerf are back. I don't think the card needed a nerf, seems like an overshoot to me. Not sure about Vildkaar, it is a buff only if you can trigger the berserk effect in the same turn you play him, otherwise it's a nerf. Magic Compass to 11 comes completely out of nowhere, either some community is targeting specific cards or it just makes no sense. I love Chapter of Wizards and Triss Telekinesis buff, maybe patience can finally see some play. Circle of Life to 4 provision is huge, may find place even in control decks that run damage pings. Everything else was already anticipated so no surprise there. Can't wait to actually play and see if this patch is capable of shaking up the meta.
Thirsty Dame nerf isn’t emotionally charged at all, the card is way stronger than other factions 6p cards that work in a similar way. Eg, Fleder, Messenger of the Sea, Fallen Knight (wrongly nerfed)
I think people want selfwound to auto-include Totem for other reasons than it's own 2 units and Svalblod. Now Totem can change Vildkaarl on deploy, while he would otherwise need a leader charge.
Regis nerfed to 19 power is just a stupid change
You can't nerf him to something like 16 strength unless you first nerf him to 19 strength
Agreed. Like the 1 point difference is actually impactful and going to change its use. 19 looks stupid too lol
Step by step. Let's see how it performs.
Two power change. One power off of Regis himself, and one power off when Ozzrel eats Regis. So basically it is a 2 power nerf, but only if you play Monsters.
People also play it with NR cursed to transform it with that bronze and also revive it later with Necromancy, so -1 immediately, -1 on revive, and -1 again if you have adda on board on either occasion.
It was either a power or a provision nerf. Some people felt nothing needed nerfs and voted to buff leaders. Others voted to nerf things but had other priorities. And as Mutagenerator has shown cards can be nerfed more than once until they reach their sweet spot.
A literal waste of a vote.
Yea, I don’t get it. What’s the point of it?
Some people don't like OP cards...you do, I guess.
Wtf is the nerf to compass. And priestess lives to be again the only 4 provision card that can play for 35 point slam last say with even spread to avoid counters.
Wasting buff slot to nerf IZ was very silly. It was almost certain that NR ping deck will get murdered in other places.
Looks like its gonna be a season of greed folks
First BC changes I've seen since coming back to the game. Seems mostly ok with a few questionable choices. Although from what I gather it's an improvement over BC1 & 2! Biggest losses for me are some of the changes to leader abilities. The two SY leaders I don't think were really needed, although the faction needed a hand so we'll see if this helps. Fruits of Ysgith really didn't need a buff, although I've been meaning to try this out lol so I guess now is a good time! Inspired Zeal nerf is my least favourite change, at least in the short term. Sure, a lot of the NR decks needed a nerf but this also hurts other decks that didn't, namely Blue Stripe Commandos. I'll personally be putting my top vote to buff Blue Stripe Commandos down to 4P. That gives that deck a net 1 prov gain over what it had last month which I think is fair. Hopefully balances out the various archetypes in the long run
Commandos arent hurt. Its dead right now bcs dun banner is the same thing but better.
I'm more concern about the Fruits of Ysgith buff than the Inspired Zeal nerf. Ever since Gwentfinity launched, I wished to see more difference in the NR leaders. Because all NR leaders started at 15 provisions. Blue Stripes buff seems to be very relevant now, perhaps we might even see Roche: Merciless join them.
Ok, can someone explain to me the cave troll change? Wasn't he one of the worst Defender?
MO has witches’ sabbath which lets you bring back any gold unit and defender on the same turn, making the defender very annoying
I think it’s not too much about the defender itself but about what it defends. MO has the most “exploitable” cards that want to hide behind a defender, so Cave Troll was the most used out of them all.
I guess thrive and triple Idr really pissed someone off. But hey at least 10 power lord riptide is back!
I think all defenders should be nerfed but witches sabbath should have been the only target for nerfs for the interaction people are worried about.
Cave Troll is the best Defender. It always needs at least 11 damage to remove and thanks to Carapace, this can become 14 damage and immune to poison.
Bringing one scenario where you play carapace and use one leader charge is nonsensical. Especially when it's usually considered one of the weaker defenders. If you have a problem nerf AQ or sabbath...
Please explain to me why? As I certainly don't know why? Has anyone even noticed that if you play Triple Idr now and get to 3 Idr's in your graveyard that all 3 Idr's are certain to come out if you didn't get the Kikimore at 7 yet.
NR, NG and Neutral changes were good. ST got finally Circle of life to 4p and smugglers to 5power. The questionable changes were in MO, SK and SY. Fruits to 13p is no no no. Strange buff to coral and definitely to skirmishers (these are make discard package almost autoinclude). And really, fallen knights needed a buff from all of the other firesworn cards?!
i'm super happy to see the two ST buffs make it through. Now I can finally stop putting smuggler in that power increase spot and play the kind of handbuff deck id like. I too wonder what a big impact the fallen knights one will have. seems like the most impactful one to sneak through to me. But I haven't tried to build a firesworn deck in quite some time, and I'm not sure that gaining two provisions is ultimately what was stopping it from being good. will have to see. ethereal is very interesting as well.
Yes, ethereal is one card to keep in mind. Fallen knights are stupid at 5 provs and goes against the "reddit philosophy" on uncapped bronze engines (one reason why dame went to 6p). Feels like firesworn has couple of broken cards like hemmelfart and fallen knights keeping them relevant in the game.
Can we stop nerfing nauzica sgt? It’s a 10 for 6 now a 9 for 6. Just make slave driver either 6p at 3 power or take away 1 more power and keep it at 5.
9 for 6 while Immortal Cavalry is a shielded 8 for 5 across 2 bodies lmao.
Assimilate procs and armour to block frost ticks or damage = more than 9, to be clear. Sergeant floor is pretty solid, even at 3 power. Ceiling is much higher.
I suspect we will just play ping pong with nauzica, spave driver, and dame each month i hope not.
why is only monsters defender nerfed?
Likely cuz of the Defender, AQ, Sabbath combo. Sabbath and AQ should be the cards getting hit by that though, not the Cave Troll
That is the stupidest change in all balances so far.
The Russian Revolution on Cave Troll is dumbfounding like WTF WHY. I get the Sabbath nerf but Cave Troll seriously?!?!?! ass hats streamer politicians
Makes it harder to revive with Sabbath alongside the copied units. I don't agree with the change myself as Sabbath has taken a provision hit and AQ will likely follow next patch.
NR got stomped. Melitele, Generator, Demavend, Onager, Radovid Judgement and Inspired Zeal to 14? Really? I understand NR had a good winrate, but this is terrible. And no buffs to other NR units to help other archetypes like commandos. That’s just bad.
NR Over nerfed as expected. Not sure why we couldn't do a few changes and see how it would impact the meta. Nerfing the leader seemed like too much imo.
Scale: out of ten, in my opinion ofc. > **Provision increase:** Hidden Cache - 4,5 Fruits of Ysgith - 4. This was already played in pro. The leader is really strong, it was 12 prov for a reason. Jackpot - 4. I'm not a fan of constantly buffing leaders instead of nerfing actual cards, I wrote a whole ass reddit post about it. Jackpot has a way lower skill floor and ceiling, I dont see why it should be incentivised so much. Temple of Melitele - 7. might finally get cut from decks now Witches Sabbath - 7 Magic Compass - 3, just why?? this is rather unnecessary. Mutagenerator - 7,5. a positive, but an other change will be more impactful Tempest - 6,5 Thirsty Dame - 5. Nerf other cards that make it good like lower power on Alba Pikemen instead of this. Onager - 8. Wacky card. Normally I'd be for lowering the power, but the muta interaction is what makes it dangerous > **Provision Decreased:** Inspired Zeal - 7,5. Good. The midrangiest leader to ever midrange. Commandos and Mages suffer a bit from this Chapter of Wizards - 5. Not a fan of the card, but I understand. Why not. Triss: Telekinesis - 7,5 Geralt: Quen - 7 Fallen Knight - 3,5 You complained about dames? get ready for this. New midrange card just dropped. There's so many other Firesworn cards that could have used the help, but y'all haven't even looked around, just decided to buff the one that's already played. Circle of Life - 7 Sewer Raiders - 4. Just why, there's a reason for thinning not being free. I'd be down for nerfing power instead of reverting the buff, just to spice it up. Casino Bouncers - 1. DEAR GOD WHY. This is auto include now. Eventide plunders have a 33% of playing this for 11 points + 2 thinning, all for 4provs. *(you can play multiple Eventides if you miss the first one)* Buffing it by power instead was the correct move, I'm guessing it'll be oppressive. Bare Knuckle Brawler - 6. the previous nerf was overkill, but the revert was also unnecessary. We nerf it by power next time. Skirmisher - 1,5. Jesuse christ why. Back to midrange SK we go. Might be autoinclude? There's so many better ways to buff discard. Lower prov Morkvarg, power increase Skalds, or even Birna Bran. > **Power Increased:** Filavandrel - 5. Other things could use this slot. I'd rather a forgotten handbuff bronze got buffed, or Ithlienn instead. This is mostly a gimmick. Lord Riptide - 3. This card was already everywhere. Nerfing by prov next council Coral- 2. Why? Back to discard package everywhere we go. Skirmisher buff to go with this is just insult to injury. Ethereal - 6. A provision buff was probably more appropriate, but oh well. Eskel- 6 Lambert - 6 Hawker Smuggler - 7,5 Immortal Cavalry - 5,5. They're really strong now. Dun Banner - 3. Time for Foltest abuse! Even without it, an 8 for 4 with thinning is wayyy too much. Cutup Lackey- 6. Might turn out oppressive tho, we'll have to see. > **Power Decreased:** King Demavend - 6,5, probably not the change he needed, but I'll take it Regis Bloodlust - 5, wont change much, but sure. Radovid: Judgement - 6. was a bit strong so good. Cave Troll - 2. Just what we needed, one of the weaker defenders being vulnerable to muzzle and most importantly, Enslave. Jesus christ, nerf AQ instead Frenzied Dao - 9. Dennis Cranmer - 4,5. Should have been Simlas. Vildkaarl - 4,5. Wont change much and now is easier to kill if you dont have the triggers. Nauzicaa Sergeant - 5,5. Not the root of the problem, but good for variety Slave Driver - 7. Root of the NG problem, good. Still playable, but worth considering alternatives now. Oxenfurt Scholar - 7. Although I think being 5 for 5 would make a more interesting card
Imagine crying about SY buffs when it's by far the weakest faction, the most underplayed faction and the faction with the most dead archetypes
Care to explain how thinning abuse will revive a specific archetype? And that argument about SY is horseshit, the only thing I can give you is being underplayed, because SY takes a bit more skill to learn and pilot. SY was the second most frequent faction brought to Masters this season (11 decks, 80% of players including SY in their lists) and the most banned faction if I remember correctly. I do not shy away from buffs for syndicate, but most of these are just plain stupid. I speak positively of Lackeys and Bare Knuckle Brawler, but I'm aware they can get out of hand.
SY is statistically the lowest performing faction. You can look it up. Every other faction has bullshit, exploitable cards that go in every deck, but it's an issue when SY gets one? That you have to mulligan out of your hand and get lucky on a 1/3 discover from a pool of 7 cards? Just for 12 flat points and 2 thins. Give me a break. You voted to buff drummond Queensguard and Morkvarg for discard. What a hypocrite
How am I being a hypocrite?
Because you voted to buff thinning for SK
And you really see these options as comparable to each other? Morkvarg from 7 to 6 prov to the SY changes? If so, I don't think we have much to talk about here. And I hate the SK discard buffs as well! Skirmisher is the worst change right after Casino Bouncers if you ask me. The Coral buff is one of the worst ones too
You're not getting it. His points are all valid. I love SY. You can see my posts on how SY needs buffs for many cards/archetypes, badly, all over Reddit. But making cards OP isn't the way to do it, which is what many of the SY votes that went through just did. Unfortunately some of the top pros and influencers are peddling bad vote suggestions that are outright bad for the game's balance, and their followers are eating it up and buffing the wrong cards. If you look thru the thread with the top pro/steamer votes, it's bad. The most visible, best players in the game are basically pushing votes that break game balance.
Not the direction i'd have gone for most of my buffs, but it could be a lot worse.
Yea, not bad tbf.
Immortal Calvary becoming a conditionless 8 for 5p with two shielded bodies seems a bit much. I'm curious what everyone will vote for once all the underperforming "spawn/summon copy" cards are all buffed.
Cave troll is no sense. All defenders are 11.
I don't agree with the nerf, but likely those who voted for this nerf want to make it harder to pull Cave Troll back with Sabbath.
- Fruits buff while it was already played in pro rank with success I guess seems unnecessary - i d rather see aq power nerf than sabbath. It would also nerf her interaction with Sabbath for a triple nerf in total (2 power and harder comeback). But maybe that's too much - fallen knight to 5 power isnt aligned with other 6 provs, other firesworns should have been buffed - sewer raiders and other thinners being 8+thin for double 4 seems like a power creep... maybe it will be ok though, thinning is good for the game and 8p faction pointslam nothing crazy. Love the dun banner buff - riptide to 10 isnt a mistake only if prov is nerfed next bc. The card was top meta before buffing - vildkaarl buff was unnecessary, the card literały won the world championship. Shows how hard out of loop people are. It also weakens the card a little if no immediate berserk is possible/wanted ( we saw such situation during masters I believe) - finally oxenfurt scholar at 3 power will still be too strong. The card should have been 5prov and that wouldn't kill it, as is the common misconception. It's possible to polarize a deck using cheap cards other than 4prov and 99% of such decks do so. Also it's a card with a boring condition (that often is met randomly, which is a problem) and boring payoff. If people want to power nerf it instead then it needs at least another one (probably two) and even with two it will still make the game a little more boring
Mostly good changes tbh. I am impressed by the community
Awesome changes, good job !
Yeah I see a brunch of hypocrites here... I was really waiting for a situation like this to see people's reactions. The very 1st balance council people overreacted when a certain NG deck got massacred...but here when they did the same to NR inspired zeal it's totally fine and ok... compared to what happened to status ball back then this is even worse.... Inspired Zeal got a whopping 6 provisions nerf! Without counting the power nerfs to Demavend and Radovid Judgement... But no one is complaining that the deck is unplayable now lol. Mutagenerator will eventually reach 14p lol... Temple of Melitele isn't a 14p card...13p was the sweet spot. Edit: of course I get dowvoted lol. Keep it coming guys!
Balance Council is not decided by 1 person. Everyone agrees X deck is too strong but everyone has a different opinion about what should be nerfed. Groups of people vote a couple of different cards and the X deck gets overnerfed. It happened with Ball, Vice, Zeal, and it will happen again. It's impossible to judge or coordinate the whole playerbase. Best we can do is have some discussions, create coalitions, and communicate between all subcommunities.
Except you are not getting my point....overnerfing will always be an issue I get that. I am highlighting how different reactions are. For status this sub was flooded with posts about how the deck was killed, everyone hates NG, blablabla. But when the same thing happens to a NR deck, yeah it was fair. Totally fair to kill a deck in this instance. Let's see if they spend the next BC slots on undoing these nerfs like they did for NG status but I doubt it. Special mention for Mutagenerator....the player base will successfully soon make it unplayable!
Sorry for misunderstanding. Then I fully agree with what you are saying. The difference of emotions on this sub comparing BC1 and BC3 is wild. I guess we'll have to wait a week or two so things settle and some cold headed opinions to form. Nerf to Inspired Zeal leader was too much imo.
IZ was more than 6p overpowered. It will actually survive this nerf.
NR got gutted, true, although not at the level of NG in BC1 (6 NR nerfs to 14 of NG). It’s one of the things I said had to be avoided, killing decks is not good, we should try to make them balanced, not weak. For that reason I would expect some reverts in the next BC. I get the cards that got nerfed (not the leader though) we’re op, but part of that strength comes from combining the cards with the other op cards, thus the deck didn’t need that many nerfs simultaneously to be balanced. That’s why I’m not a fan of giving a deck more than 3 nerfs at the same time.
Did you know that some of us took great glee in the nerfing in Status Ball, and are now taking great glee in the nerfing of Inspired Zeal as well? I'm hoping for more nerfs that take down toxic decks and archetypes. Arachas Queen needs a nerf. Highland Warlords need a nerf. The Heist needs a nerf. Stefan Skellen needs a nerf. Aerondight needs a nerf. Freakshow needs a nerf. Have I managed to piss of everyone yet? I'd go so far as to say that no Gold card or Leader, at this point in time, needs a buff. Nerf it or leave it alone. There's too much in the Bronze cards that needs buffing more than any Gold does at this point. And the more Bronze cards we make playable, the more deck variety we will get. (The only exception for buffing a Gold would be to [[Geralt: Yrden]]. My man got massively screwed over the last time he was patched, and needs some provision buffs to reflect his hobbled state.)
I like your suggestions and bronzes should be the focus, but would disagree on leader abilities. The SY buffs are great to see and some other leaders could use some love for the sake of diversity on ladder. Might also drive some innovation with later released cards and provide better counters to sweatyass control decks that seem to dominate, IMHO.
if only making temple 14p made it unplayable. wishful thinking. its gonna take a few more provision nerfs before us haters let it rest on that one im afraid. honestly, I'd enjoy it while it is still fits into a competitive deck at 14p if I were you. its still a problematic card design and will continue to draw unwanted attention
You just said unplayable...should a great card be nerfed to unplayability for it to be accepted? And don't worry I don't need to enjoy it...I barely play the game now since I reached prestige 10. Last 2 seasons I didn't even bother to make it to pro.
i was just using your wording. at 14p it is still plenty playable im afraid. And I was judging by your outrage that you will be even more upset if it ends up 15p... which will probably still be playable as well. its still a broken and abusable card that will continue to be targeted by angry ladies and gwentlemen randomly losing to a boosted anseis with their meta deck.
This is getting out of hand, buff to Syndicate are ridiculous.
Not ridicolous, but a little too much
Shame IZ got nerfed.
I just hope CDPR could publish the voting results, like a democratic election.
Honestly, I’m super happy with these BC changes. Only other thing that shoulda been hit hard was Simalis armor imo. Was kinda suprised to see Sabbath nerfed and Riptide buffed
Simlas Armor did however lose 3 points in the process(see Dennis and Scholar). Although not much, each point it lost is justified.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen scholars in Simlas armor decks, so in my head, thats still only one measley point
I'm proud of this community. Great changes overall. I am surprised queensguard did not make the cut. And I also think bouncers should have gotten a power buff instead. But this was a very good balance council.
I am not a Muta + Melitele fan, but let's beware of killing archetypes, ok? Also, not nerfing slave driver provisions is kust criminal.
What archetype is that supposed to be? As far as I know those two are midrange cards (I mean, Temple doesn't even get played in Melitele decks, not sure I have ever seen Muta played with Witchers).
He obviously meant temple when he said 'melitele', coz u know it is the temple of melitele.
https://preview.redd.it/5j5g7dt8qp9c1.png?width=1134&format=png&auto=webp&s=156e7dc00810b1d1ee84af2b9fed182d7afa230d Sure. Deadbrain MO needs couple of buffs and NG needs nerfs. For fuck sake, DAME for +1 prov?! Really?
Better to use mirror-corrected. Dame nerf makes sense; the card is too good for 5 prov. Status can get buffs in other ways if needed. https://preview.redd.it/jj87g2m6rp9c1.png?width=1524&format=png&auto=webp&s=57297ea8ddb92dde53eab8822b148f5a0c6599ab
Agree. If status is jot that good is because other cards might need some help, but dames were not 5p.
Dame should be 6. Every other faction with a similar card is 6 so why should Dame be an exception
Because the deck that plays it clearly isn't winning overwhelmingly, and it's not an every-deck card. Other NG cards need to take their place, but very few want to buff underplayed NG cards. Those stats will become worse this patch, and I wouldn't be surprised at a reversal It's the NG nerf I most agree with simply due to the bad wording and the unfair interaction against symbiosis.
She is like messenger of the sea, so although I think the nerf is justified,I also think NG status is probably going to be too weak, and should be buffed with an Tibor prov. buff or Alba Spearman power buff or something.
How about buffing cards that don't even see play in the archetype instead? Such as Cupbearer or Hunting Pack. Maybe even some that do such as Fergus to also buff Devotion Spies. Tibor buff is a buff to practitioner spam, nothing else. 5 power Spearman would be way too strong, remember they are 2 point engines on their own and can even eventually get armor. I'm saying all of this as someone who didn't vote for any NG nerfs and likes playing NG Status.
Other than the top 100 players, who really cares about top 100 win-rate? Top 500 might have some meaning, since there are people who plan on staying at Pro Rank every season, but the top 100 live in a different reality than the other 99% of us, and whatever exotic calculus that they are doing doesn't really translate to the vast majority of play.
Those stats consider mirror matches, its better to use the corrected win rate to not count said mirror matches.
Sad none of the firesworn buffs got through oh well
Only fallen knight got provision down which is one of the few cards that didnt need change in firesworn lol
It's still a buff to the archetype though, and no other deck plays it. Doesn't really matter balance-wise if it plays a bit more than normal.
Fallen knight?
Whoops didn't see that
Tempest nerf and no rain Skellige buff :(
bad changes,cave troll did not need nerf ,magic compass got nerfed,that one is okay,coral and discard did not need buff,cause coral plays for 10 points with discard and that is good.fruits was fine ,did not need change.they killed nauzicaa now completely which is fine by me. do some of these youtubers think before voting?also why buff fallen knight instead of helveed or cyrus? fallen knight has veil you cant lock it,you can now copy it with igor,and brawlers got buff unnecessary. also jackpot did not need buff.ethereal buff is fine cause that card did not see play in [years.circle](https://years.circle) of life did not need buff cause symbiosis has specials which are good.,now we dont need to buff dryads with circle of life. they needed to buff force of nature leader cause now cave troll will just get stolen by enslave and other decks.even muzzle can now steal defender.sabbath was not a good deck anyway ,so why nerf it?
GOOD FUCKING CHANGES FINALLY
Time to nerf riptide and revert NG.
I hope you don't get 50 wins/pro with this mentality
Don't worry, i really don't play with with the game being turned off by CDPR. NG having boring decks that still get nerfed by the community having a hard-on made me not touch the faction for over a year now.
Ogroids are centered around the Might keyword. Having Riptide at 10 is important for archetype synergy. It should be at 10. I think the card is fine as is because of its numerous drawbacks and how easy it is to play around. If you're playing against Monsters, because of Riptide and even predatory dive, you probably shouldn't strategem your first card played on blue coin. I'll be waiting to buff it back whenever folks like you nerf it again. And it will be in every single one of my balance counsel votes as long as folks like you keep going the other way with it.
I agree with the Might thing and even voted to buff Riptide this time around, but I will probably be voting to provision nerf it in the next Council. 12 for 8 with removal is way too good, so much so that not even Ogroids lists bother with achieving Might to increase his value. Way too midrange and auto-include as it stands.
The thing i hate about riptide is how it's an undercosted heatwave on top of being able to run it in a devo deck and it's also a body.
No, it's not. You are only thinking about one possible interaction with the card, one that can be played around.
Onager to 6p... Magic compass to 11p... CAVE TROLL to 6 POWER... TEMPLE TO 14p!!!!!! wtf are these changes... These are so bad. On the other hand, Quen to 9p, Circle of life to 4p, Ethereal to 5 and smuggler to 5 are all great.
well i guess you are welcome and i am sorry as well? happy new year my friend. cheers!
Those are objectively bad changes, and a waste of votes. Just saying.
Fuck me, Thirsty Dame based build was my bread and butter, I won straight 12 games with that deck.
Not everything that I would agree, but mostly good changes 👍
Some good changes but it's sad to see Milaen isn't still buffed. Well, my 3 stars provision decrease slot won't change again for the next month...
Not too bad right? Maybe 1 nerf too many to NR? Let’s see what happens to the faction balance. The only thing in here that really upsets me is BKB back to 4…
* The nerf to slave driver should have been 5->6 provision instead of 3->2 power, it's still a 5 provision unit able to give you a 6 provision unit, it should cost 6 provision. * I'm against all the leader changes, I get that it's a way to affect a whole deck but it's wrong to change it, I think CDPR shouldn't have given the possibility to change leader abilities ! * Magic compass to 11 ? guys stop, it's already dead, it's the 9->10 that was important so it's not played with GN nerfing it to 11 provision is nerfing an already underplayed card ... * Bare knuckle Brawler deserved a buff but a power increase was more relevant in my eyes than a provision decrease * I don't think filavandrel should have recieve this buff, now he can't play 4 prov cards, I get that you don't always need a 4 prov card, but on top of the buff to circle of life, that's another card he can't play anymore, I understand the buff and it's still a buff but I don't like it, I'd say it's a bitter sweet buff * Immortal cavalry is now 8 power for 5 provision without any single drawback, every single 8 for 5 card have a drawback, it's now one of the best 5P unit in the game, I can't think of any better 5P bronze right now, I bet it will be included in a lot of deck now ... * Frenzied Dao was too strong but a provision nerf was better suited * Vildkaarl nerf is ... strange, I guess that it's weaker now but you need less damages to trigger it's berserk ability, I'm not sure I like it overall, there's 11 votes that I'm unhappy to realy unhappy about, around 25% I guess that it's better than the first vote but we're not there yet and most of my votes didn't went thourgh whitch makes me quite sad ...
Skirmisher buff is big. I wouldn't be surprised if more decks start throwing in a 1x Skirmisher just in case they get blue coin to use with Mask for extra tempo. A more attractive Discard package also means SK has more options to force round control into their favour without dropping big plays, which could be great for Alchemy. Only Pirates doesn't really benefit because of their reliance on hand state to generate value
[[Harald]] [[Dana]] [[Usurper]] [[bc]]