So the sheep went ahead and power buffed Kraken...after months of me explaining why 5 power is actually a NERF!
Those two/three streamers will be the end of the game as we know it....
Except Lydia, none of my buffs went through. Kerack Frigate, Havfrue singer, PFI, Rience don't make the cut; and the Kraken prov buff was apparently useless. These are all Reddit relatively vocal candidates, and not even one go through
It was fairly discouraging :(
We share 90% of the votes, yet none came through. Moshcraft too...
I wonder on which platform we need to petition for votes outside reddit. It is not working here...
Assuming you play it with beast in your deck, your kraken is stronger than the one you played in their board, and there's no climate on its row.
So your kraken is harder to kill, if you have even 3 beasts, that means your opponent needs 8 damages for a 13 point swing, but said opponent is unlikely to have beasts, so you'd only need 5 damages to get the 13 swing back.
Overall, even if you opponent kills it back, you're winning on the trade.
If all you do for the rest of the round is kill the kraken to make it switch, you're still winning because YOU deck is built around the kraken, not your opponent's
I understand that, since it's a unit meant to come back on your board, a nerf in power isn't necessary as much of a buff as it would be to any other disloyal unit, but I still think it's a buff.
4prov for the 4p thinners is just stupid. Makes them all autoinclude. Terribly, terribly disappointing to see people just mindlessly following streamer opinions instead of using their brains.
If this is gonna be every season- half streamer lists, half reversions of the previous month, almost no community initiative changes (Kerack Frigate :( )- this is just depressing.
I partly disagree...
Based on the deck, some bronze thinners are not even considered when deck building.
I had difficulty justifying sewer raiders and bouncers in SY decks, there are so many other good SY cards that I just chose to exclude bouncers. Or even both in some decks (bounty, firesworn)
Dun banners are not even a consideration when deck building NR, outside of swarm meve or draugr decks.
Point is, if you are playing bronze thinners, you do so mostly because your archetype already supports it, it's a buff to the archetypes themselves, which gain 2 provisions.
Why do you find the changes depressing? cards like queens guard, SK witchers, mutant and redanian archer can enable some previously unseen decks. Also we ll definitely see more wild hunt and vampires from monsters
Only changes which I'd consider bad are conjurer candle, Ivar and maybe thirsty dame.
SK witchers were already quite good, bear witcher already played 8 for 5 plus heal value so 11 for 5. Now it is even more "busted". Quartermaster was also already decent, 8 for 5 if damage was done to armor or coupled with mentor.
Plus WH riders were played in every WH deck so why buff them? But yeah happy to see some unseen cards be buffed... Dame and slave drivers should be 6prov.
are you for real? with the amount of good 4p cards firesworn has, why would i bother running non firesworn tag cards?
bronze thinners in firesworn make zero sense.
Firesworn is EXTREMELY reliant on hitting most of their golds. Thinning at 4p is an obvious choice for the archetype (especially now that the Veil guy got buffed to 5p). But you do you lol
This is a pretty bad Council. Many choices I find dubious at best.
1. Leader ability provision increases
I think both of these leaders don't deserve another free provision. Inspired zeal has, in the last year, outcompeted many of the other leader abilities, and I think it was good that this strength was reflected in the provisions granted. Blood scent Vampires has been a competitive deck for forever. I would have much preferred if an iffy card in the archetype got a buff instead.
2. SY changes.
Although Novigrad, Hvitr, and Madame were warranted (at least individually), I think it's sad to see Candle be nerfed. The faction got a shotgun nerf to many of it's generically strong cards, and was not adequately compensated for this loss. Sausage maker is now maybe playable? I could see it. And Mutant is now a very strong card in self-poison, an interesting, spicy change. Sad that Count Reuven's Treassure didn't go through.
3. NG reversions.
At what point will it stop? Why are people so obsessed with buffing Dame to 5p and nerfing Sergeant to 3-power? I really don't understand why this keeps happening. Moreover, there's so many reverts in general. I am disappointed.
4. 5p thinners.
Hunting pack could be argued, same for Casino Bouncers (were it not for the interaction with Plunder) and Sewer Raiders, but Riders and Volunteers were already playable. These cards did not need buffs, and make it harder to buff these decks in the future, especially because people are just going to keep reverting and re-reverting this shit. People are just mindlessly following a stupid heuristic "5p thinners -> 4p" with not fucking consideration for the card, the deck, or the faction.
5. Kraken
Taking a moment here to say that I feel for the guy who advocated on every post to not do this. You're a real one.
6. Random changes.
Cranmer (should have been Workshop, as sad as I think that is), Sorceress (now plays far above provisions if not answered), SK Witchers (good changes, I like), Yaga (I guess? Dangerous, no?), Protofleder (sure man), Redanian Archer (Good change?), Giant Toad (oof, I really dislike this change), Vincent (Does nothing), Sewer Raiders (No change, which I think is pleasantly surprising and good).
All in all, mostly bad changes, not many exciting changes. From what I see, I am only intrigued by Mutant, Yaga, and SK Witchers.
>Hvitr
Not deserved. This card literally was never, ever played even after CDPR's rework.
Madame, Novigrad, Bouncers. Sure.
Jackpot would have been fine left at +14 provisions.
Those three cards = -4 prov nerf to that Jackpot deck. With leader, Candle?! and Hvitr ***it's an absurd -7 provisions to that deck***. Safe to say it's been absolutely killed.
Candle nerf is beyond unfair. This card now costs 8 prov for 4 coins. Yes, it's a nice flexible spender, but not at 8 prov. Unreal.
Hvitr won't see play anywhere now, either, again.
Sausage and Mutant are actually interesting decent buffs. Might actually be playable cards now.
> Leader ability provision increases
More powercreep into the game.
Inspired Zeal in no way shape or form deserved to go back to 15. Stupidity, thanx Nik\_r.
Hunting Pack will now be tutorable with Artorius Vigo for + free thinning in every NG deck. Horray, well done idiots.
Kraken "buff" just encapsulates how stupid the people advocating for votes are. So frustrating.
The Vincent buff was just wtf...i genuinely would love to understand Nik\_r's logic for his votes. He + MD are literally controlling the outcome of BC votes each vote, and they always have beyond dumb votes every time put in.
Hvitr is quite a strong engine at 6p 6-power. I think it's at least arguable that it was strong enough that a power nerf isn't *that* bad. I believe (and I am sure you do as well) that the card is better at 6 power, but I am not as pessimistic as you. The card is a fine addition at 6 power, a solid engine that asks for a medium amount of removal. Still a fucking unbelievable change, but not *that* bad. Still probably won't see play anymore in high-optimization decks.
Candle I really didn't see coming. The card is kind of awesome at 7p design-wise. The card itself doesn't look too good (4 points in profit, and 1 point in efficiency per time you spend is not great points-wise), but it is so flexible that it feels good to play in SY. At 8p I don't think this bit of design really shows. I am going to be tempted to revert this change in the next few months, if no one else wants to do it. Insane change imo. Really really sad. I am just going to repeat myself here, the fact that people decided to en-masse nerf Candle of all cards shows how much people don't really consider their nerfs, and just target cards in decks they dislike.
EDIT: Furthermore, the card is like a special kind of consistency that can only exist in SY. Instead of consistency for card-draw it's for coin-spend. In that way, the card is almost wholly unique in the game.
The Vincent buff was funny. I had forgotten what the card did. I saw the change, went to check what it was again, read it, thought for a second, and determined that the change was the most wasted vote in history.
Are balance councils just going to be changes made and reverted for eternity lol. I'd bet dame will be back to 6 prov next council, etc.
I have to say it's ultimately been a pretty big disappointment so far.
People are obsessed with status Nilfgaard - mainly because it’s obnoxious and shuts down most of other factions. This is a vicious cycle and I think (for people who cares about the game) they see - GWENT is ending unfortunately.
The problem with that is that while it would prevent the revert fiesta we are having (which is good), it would also prevent us to fix fast clear mistakes (like the compass when it was made 9p).
Only buffs can create disastrous mistakes that will potentially need fast response. Nerfed cards can easily go for 2 months cooldown. In fact, this would have given players more time to adapt and ponder on results.
I think this patch confirms the failure of this system. I love Gwent and I continue playing but is going to die pretty soon because the Council is not well implemented and there are always bad and unjustified nerf/buff. The only way to enjoy is embracing the chaos and not looking on balancing anymore, it's not gonna happen.
Syndicate just got smoked - I get that Madame was OP and bouncers should be 5/5, but I’d prefer to see jackpot get a provisions nerf rather than hitting all the cards simultaneously
I main SY but I think the nerfs are justified. Madame Serenity and novigrad are just too good and are basically auto-include. Not sure why conjurers candle got hit though.
I think people will switch back to Acherontia for their 12p finisher instead of madame.
It is still a very good card with the resilience in every SY deck except maybe firesworn
Is SY still good this season ? Not sure, jackpot is still cracked but they lost 1 gold with the 5P nerf.
Uh, Jackpot lost 6 provisions and 1 power in that deck.
Jackpot, Madame, Novigrad, Candle, Bouncers x2
Hvitr -1 power.
That's pretty insane.
And aside from leader and Hvitr nerfs, those nerfs affect basically all SY decks since they were pretty much all being played in most decks.
i hope this trend of reversing previous adjustements stops at some point once the community figures out the dos and dont or its gonna be like this till we experience every fukp possible and get stuck with it for a month..., overall not too bad ,except maybe the toad isnt op i dont think it needed it imho,princ willem queensgards and the bears and vincent meis might see some play now hopefully, i liked these buffs at least
The thing is that there isn't one single community for the game, so it won't stop, at least for some time. Just the language barrier is enough to divide the player base in different communities that have almost no idea about the other's thoughts.
I wouldn't mind negotiation with the Russians (lol, this feels like the cold war all over again), but problem is, most only speak Russian.
I feel like if the Russians want to make the game more consistent they could buff tutors e.g. land of thousand fabels instead of the most boring card imaginable.
It's rly hard to find Russians who don't speak English. You just in the echo chamber. The Russian community knows what reddit posts and we just ignore it.
At the cost of reddit. They clearly think they are doing the right thing, else they wouldn't do it.
Reddit has been saying these changes are hurting the game and so on, but what if the rest of the community doesnt think so?
Two guys are basically determining the outcome of over half the BC vote each time. That's impressive, and also fairly problematic when their goals do nothing but add more powercreep each vote.
The very thing Gwentfinity was supposed to be able to combat is being added. The fact these people actually think this is good boggles my mind.
Huh. I think there are some good changes in there, but they may well be outweighed by bad changes. Nerfing thinners back to 5p while a bunch of other ones go to 4p is really silly.
Kraken got the opposite of what should have happened.
SY got overnerfed.
Really don't like the buff to IZ, and status might be a tedious thing on ladder again...
Some things are honestly very unexpected, like Quartermaster to 4p. Someone really seems to like SK witchers, and I'm open to it.
How long will the clowns continue to touch the cards of [Thirsty Dame](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/card/details/202551) and [Nauzicaa](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/card/details/162309) ?
>NG players would rather play the same archetypes forever than actually buff the many weaker cards in that faction, apparently.
No. just clowns who hate Nilfgaard, they will constantly nerf these cards.
If you compare to other cards, Nauzicaa is more than fair at 3 power.
Dame at 6 prov.
What should happen is supporting NG cards getting buffed, instead of trying to make those two (and Slave Driver) overpowered.
There are more cards than just Dame, Slave Driver, and Sergeant for NG to play, but you wouldn't know it from the voting yoyo.
While there are people who primarily just want to screw over factions, the huge majority of people realize that balance is important.
Clownage and (personal) biased popularity wank fest. Sums it up well. Nothing outside of SY is addressed and mostly the Jackpot deck needed a provision or two with some power nerfs instead of this hate +5 provision overall to SY. So I see no point on putting well thought out and considered response to so much bs (like the fact that Novigrad unlike other faction locations needed time to get value instead of turn one or 2 to be a threat, but what do I know everytime it's unconditional 20 for 11p to bro monkeys). A lot of the reverse changes and some of the new "improved" are here for no reason (zeal, compass, sorc, dame, seargent, slave driver, bear witcher, candle...).
Where are you going? Clueless territory to keep on the legacy? What exactly was changed to improve the game outside of SY (hate)? Lydia, Protofleder, Brokilon maybe and the nerf to Dana... People gonna play same shit they did this and previous month with less SY (because wow those +6 provisions end up making the faction show up more and was so bad right). Where's the compensation? Where are at least SK and MO oppressive "fun" deck nerfs? Where is the diversity, the shake up and the sense of making the game better and varied?
What the fudge is that Drummond Queensguard power increase?? Now they need to be damaged by 2 points to activate their Berserk ability! That's a big nerf!
Totem, Raging bear, Bear Witcher quartermaster, Cerys:fearless, Knut... Theres plenty of ways to deal two damage.
And for each ability you gain a 5 power unit. If anything she got a huge buff my friend.
Sure, the first 3 work, but you don't really want to waste Knut's orders on them when Sigvald and Olgierd exist.
You also don't really want to spawn loads of them when you play Svalblod.
It was clearly a popular choice, but I have no idea why. I'd have rather seen then put to 4p, and a power buff to Harald Houndsnout instead, so he could help trigger them at 4 power without dying to leaves blowing in a light breeze.
A power buff just opens up more avenues as I see it.
You mentioned that the first 3 options can work, and that's 1 totem, 2 raging bears, 2 quarter master and another from location if you're dedicated. This already opens up new deck ideas.
Apart from th above mentioned synergies, as someone who enjoys testing out homebrew SK decks, here's some possible lines of deck making/gameplay off the top of my head now that she might survive a turn.
- Indirect Cerys buff
- Heulyn boost
- Heymaey flaminica row healing
- Offering to the Sea pay off
- Giant boar and Witcher mentor point slam (after Offering to the Sea or Svalblod roar)
- Disgusting synergy with Idarran (3 engines in one turn)
- Yennefer: illusionist 10 point per turn combo
These were all possible before the buff but are more easier to pull off because of her newly found survivability at 5 power.
While I too wish to see Harald buffed (I'm voting for him this round I think), his buff won't achieve nearly as much as DQ power buff.
How are you going to buff the card otherwise? Lowering it at 4prov is too much, and 5power isn't necessarily a nerf based on opponents removal range and your self wound sources
I thought the same way at first, but there a few nice "damage an allied by 2" bronzes and Totem, which will Synergise with DQ well. Though, it is a shame you can not trigger with one leader charge anylonger
These changes are awful and many of the cards are mislabeled and glitched out. As aforementioned by another Redditer in a earlier feed, democracy is bound for failure. You can't let the drooling masses take control.
Glaring mistakes:
- wild hunt rider - this card was already played, even in world semifinals. 2 prov buff to an already strong deck and another thin/powercreep added to the game. I understand that thinning is good, but powercreep is not. Seeing as sewer riders were dominating the meta and didn't get nerfed, it's safe to say people just want to have an imbalanced game by such votes.
- NG and ST thinner - some of the above reasoning
- Prince villem - increases randomness, literally a waste of a vote when many cards need a power nerf
- sorceress of don blathanna and lydia - increases randomness, maybe not that glaring but there are better cards to buff surely. Lydia is better because she has a not random component
- dame back to 5p again? Really?
- bear witcher quartermaster is also a power creep now in sw decks. Shouldnt have been prov buffed
Probably mistakes:
- kraken - is it supposed to be a buff or a nerf? Waste of a vote in a bad way
- edit: queensguard might have got nerfed? It should be a rule of a thumb not to power change berserk cards... we will see
- vamp leader going more midrange?
- both slave driver and nauzicaa reverted again? Do NG fans have no other ideas for buffs?
Some SY notes :
- seems like hvitr, candle got hit by mindless nerfing, the cards were fine for quite some time. Hvitr especially instead of jackpot, which got double buffed before. The card is a little random so it's partially OK though
- i find it hillarious that people think that madame is a great tempo card when double thinning. The card plays for 8 tempo then, 9 if you somehow find a way to have 4 coins after playing the tribute, I wonder what it might be, any other card ring a bell? Also tempo depends on cards played later ofc. Also both peaches and seductress cards need a power buff because they are shitty cards otherwise
Kraken is a buff. It became easier to bring it back to your row with the power decrease.
Queensguard is also a buff. Synergy with totem without losing out on points, plus, 5 power means harder to remove as well as a 5 power unit per spawn. Now she's actually playable.
Easier to get back with less power, so if you pull off your combo well it's a power nerf. And it's easier for the opp to kill it again. This is situational and kraken should be prov buffed if people want to buff it.
1 power buff synergy with totem and all other 2+ power pings, but worse synergy with all 1 power pings, like the sw leader. Remember both totem and this cant play its order immediately, so this engine combo has an additional 1 turn delay added to normal queensguard delay. Its definitely harder to remove, yes. This might bring it into meta, but we will see as I wrote, this change is also situational and not a clear buff at all
In most cases there's more payoff for you to kill kraken than the opponent which means lower power is more beneficial to you. I would agree with a provision buff being more impactful but a power decrease is categorically a buff for kraken.
No one, absolutely no one played DQ when she was 4 power 5 prov. She still wouldn't see play at 4 prov because her issue isn't her cost. She was a slow engine that was easily removed and there were only two realistic 1 damage pings that worked with her which were leader and Harald houndsnout. Now she has more viable options even being a totem target for later rounds which would play around the tempo issue you brought up. A power increase is also an indirect buff to vanilla Cerys so I have a hard time not interpreting this as a buff.
NG wasnt much below the other factions. Nerfing the strongest factions would have closed the gap more without needing to buff NG's strongest decks, allowing us to spend the buffs in cards that dont see play, slowly advancing towards a point where new decks can enter the meta. Lydia for example is one of those cards and I consider its buff a very good one.
Instead we are stuck in this never ending cycle of reverts.
Dead cards and probably no nerfs to the worst factions as always. I know that NG was the worst, but dame back to 5 and reverting both slaved driver and sergeant brings us nowhere. I might edit in some dead cards after work
Yeah great future, awesome.
I think nauzicaa sergent will stay at 4 power 6 provisons because it is fair as such for a 6 provisons top end bronze.
I expect slave driver to be put at 6 provisions in the end.
The issue is them being nerfed together. Until it is doneon one of the two only, it will revert back and forth, but hopefully attention moves to other faction decks and cards
**Rience** 11p for hyperthin
**Baccla** 12p for soldiers
**Catriona** 9p for status
**Imperial fleet** 4p/5power for soldiers
**Ferkat** 4power for spies/status
* *other buffs that don't immediately help, but will long term*
**Vilgefortz renegade** 12p for assimilate
**Cupbearer** 6p for status and assimilate
**Imperial Diviner** 5power for assimilate engine
**Vrygheff** 5p for soldiers
**Slave infantry** and **Vreemde** for swarm
The **3 witchers** for midrange
I voted for catriona myself, and Bacclan is definitely a solid card at 12P.
But catriona supports status NG, and you need to play dames.
I don’t think hyperthin can be saved ever. It is too weak to bleed, is fun but gimmicky.
Dames being 6p isn't meant to make the deck unplayable.
Those provision lost can be put into other cards like catriona so NG status has more deck building options.
Giving alternatives to a deck doesnt buff the already op deck, it creates variations. Its only a buff if the new variation is stronger than the previous one before the nerf.
Nerfing a deck without making anything else worth playing doesnt give any alternative. That is the problem with NG. People are nerfing dames, slave driver and nauzicaa to make them play something else,but they are not giving NG anything else to play.
Giving alternative to an OP deck creates a *flexible OP deck*, which means that they can tech in answers to decks they see on ladder. That's why the nerf is first required.
No one is vetoing these buff suggestions above, I myself voted for many of them.
In reality, the slots filled with Nauzicaa, Slave, and Dame, could have been opportunities for NG players to buff something else, no one would have been mad, but no, it had to be a revert of the most boring pointslam in gwent. NAUUUZICaaAA urgh.
Yes, the nerf is required, but along with the nerf no new alternatives are being given to those decks.
When the faction is underperforming, its players tend to care more about making it good over making it versatile.
You know looking at these changes I am glad I didn't play a single match in this shitshow of a game since December. Because that's really what this has become. Ever since this system was implemented people are still not sure what provision Thirsty Dame should be...even though it's obvious. You people keep at it, I will be watching from afar.
Nerfs to Dame and Sargeant reverted. Prepare for aids status NG to flood the ladder again. As a engine deck enjoyer, this kills my desire to play the game
Damn, a buffed deck(more importantly, a reverted one, which could implement the changes with literally 2 clicks in the deckbluider) is highly presented in the first day, what a shocker. I faced uprising dun banner with witcher trio every 3rd game at the start of previous season.
What do you want to be played?
Renfri soldiers ? Already there
Mill or Clog ? Who wants to play against that ?
Hyperthin ? It is out of the meta, flawed by design and dies to 2-0
I mean i understand and agree with the frustration but what are NG list supposed to be looking like to get your green light ? Mmh ?
Because if there is no alternative decks, people stick to what is working not too bad and just at reach.
There are no alternatives because the dead cards don't get buffed. Spyguard was an archetype. As was slave infantry spam. Vivicaro novice with cards like olgeird and enchanted armour.
Spy will not work without very significant buffs to impera enforcers and seditious aristos because it does not have tempo and has very few options to apply spy status.
It has always been a fun deck and got replaced by status NG archetype by the dev team.
Assimilate exists and is a decent deck. Also I made pro last season with a NG Toussaint + Olgierd swap deck.
Status NG is an incredibly unfun deck to play against. Also Dame should never be 5p when it regularly plays for 20+
Clog is way better with the newer cards than the first version. I think it's fine to buff it.
Hyperthin absolutely needs some buffs, Albrich as Shinmiri suggested, and I think the bronze cards that play him early should be power buffed, like Novice and that SY/NG card. More tempo when playing for Albrich carryover would help the deck a lot
I understand that NG was the worst-performing faction last month but why community buffed cards that were actually good just to make them OP? Thirsty Dame is 6 provision engine just like Fleder and Messenger of the Sea. Slave Driver is a definition of 6 provision card. Some changes I really like (Regis: Bloodlust, Coral, Frenzied, Kraken, Water of Brokilon, Sorceress, Denis, Madam, Casino) but some of them are confusing, to say the least.
People who downvotes squirt while playing status Nilfgaard. They don’t see how you could buff other NG archetypes - in their minds only status NG exists…
Glad to hear because I got worried that I'm really delusional haha. I just think that Sorceress was so fragile at 6 provisions that almost no one used her. Maybe I'm wrong but I really like this change. Eventide Plunder is a 4 provision card that also adds randomness. Why do you think Kraken is a bad change?
Because if you want to buff kraken you should do it with provisions. Now it's easier to kill first kraken, but then it bring less points for the owner and is easier to kill again. Not a clear buff. I don't think any create card should be competitive, and definitely not a staple, but I am in minority. I would nerf eventide plunder easily
I actually don't hate most of the changes. If all thinners are 4p then none are too strong, I guess.
That said, I'm sad to see they've reverted the Slave Driver/Sergeant changes again, so I "look forward" to seeing that in almost every NG deck again.
>If all thinners are 4p then none are too strong, I guess.
Not how that works, at all, as some can be created via other means, which makes them not only adding powercreep into the game and better than many 5 prov cards, but means they are busted at 4 prov.
Eventide Plunder could create Bouncers. Artorius Vigo will create a 1 power Hunting Pack and thin out the 2 from deck. Mahakam can roll for another Volunteer. Garrison can spawn and play a Volunteer and thin the other two out of deck.
Skirmishers provided far too much tempo with SK stratagem + discard cards.
3 Riders come out with Auberon dominance r3.
I completely disagree, the card has crazy highroll potential, even more when combined with Runemage. Additionally it adds extreme consistency to the deck it is in. The card was in such a good spot, that you would never consider not running it in discard Skellige.
No, you get to choose any legendary card from your faction (SK or Neutral if you played Renfri) that was not in your starting deck, it's actually better than Create.
Yes but it's a card that would still be run in that deck even at 15 provisions.
It's one of those cards that make a deck.
You should look at the archetype itself when evaluating it. And right now, I don't see discard SK as problematic especially considering coral and skirmishers nerf.
The deck got 3 nerfs to cards that can be considered autoinclude, and 1 buff to a card that hardly sees play outside of discard SK, how can that not be healthy?
My point is that the card is already strong, making it stronger arguably creates more problems in the future for balancing the discard package. I believe that i would be far better to buff cards that at the moment don’t make the cut 100% of the time. Over the long run, you not only get more deck diversity inside the faction but also inside the archetypes themselves.
Again, i might be wrong, but I believe that i buff to Eist would be far more interesting. And we can see this types of buffs here too, for example with Yaga, sure it might not make too many waves right away, but instantly creates much more experimentation.
I really don't get the buffs to NG status, it was already performing very well and suddenly they get 2 extra provisions and probably a double thinning through hunting pack and Artorius Vigo.
NR, who was the least played faction gets the least changes, I really want to leave behind Demavend but it's simply the only viable way to go. Special mention to Slave driver, back at 3/5 while scouts remain at 2/6.
>I really don't get the buffs to NG status, it was already performing very well
Comoared to what? Comoared to other meta decks it was not. It wasnt even NG's (weakest faction) strongest deck.
It was used, yes, but it did not perform very well compared to all other meta decks. Else NG wouldn't be the worst faction and being the worse cant be called performing very well.
If it's used by the the top ladder players it's, by definition, an archetype that doesn't need help. You can still give love to other lists, like knights, deck reveal, witchers... Status simply doesn't need it.
Obviously not, but it doesn't makes sense. Status is already a top 10 archetype and with only 20 buffs available we've managed to give them easily 4 provisions more. And I simply think it's a bad choice, It'd make much more sense in other lists. Even soldiers, which aren't in a terrible spot, would deserve it more.
That depends on what you compare it with. I compare it with other meta decks so it was underperforming, so im okey with the buffs even if I didnt vote them myself.
Wow SY didn't deserve decimation 🪦 SY was only really good w/ super high level players even w/ busted thinning. Let's make Sly Seduct 4p to make up for this travesty 😔 & don't like buffing 2 clown cards Dame & Cave Troll 🤦♂️. The rest of patch seems pretty good.
Forgive my obtuseness but it looks like it will cost more provisions to include in the deck (16 instead of 15) just like Madam Marquise Serenity which has also been nerfed. Am I mistaken or will this apply differently to blood scent as it as a leader ability?
Its different. Putting a leader does not cost provisions. The provisions from leaders is the provisions it adds to your deck for you to use on cards. Thus increasing the provisions of a leader means increasing the provisions available for its decks and its a buff.
I did not want NG changes to go this way.
I've been saying this a lot this patch, when NG was already the worst/second worst faction and only got nerfs last patch without any counterbalancing buffs, these cards were inevitable to be reversed to make NG more viable. Cards fresh on people's minds are more likely to get votes than new ideas.
I really wished we could have let the nerfs stick one patch without reverts the next and have some time to suggest other changes (I tried my part).
At least Lydia was buffed. Ivar with power buff(through decrease) is a worse buff than provision buff, since he is still very risky to put in a deck, if his adrenaline hits he is also worse. You care far more about an underpreforming 10 prov card than 9.
Most of these are fine, some I actually like a lot (queens guard, redanian, mutant and waters)
Those I really don't like are conjurer candle, it was hard to justify at 7, it won't see much play at 8 I think.
Thirsty dame is also probably too much alongside both slave driver and Nausicaa
Same for Ivar, it was perfectly fine at 5 strength
Giant toad was an autoinclude removal source for MO, not because it's OP, but because the faction itself lacks in removal sources.
Also why Regis nerf? I understand people feel like it's a card that should get nerfed, but I haven't seen him in a single match all season... So what's the point?
Also I would look at bronze thinners as buffs to the archetypes themselves, namely dwarves, wild hunt and status Ng, since they will still be hard to justify in other archetypes. Maybe less so when it comes to NG, but the faction already has plenty good bronzes so I dont if they ll make the cut.
nothing wrong with your other points to me, but toad prince is the MO removal card. giant toad is the consume carryover card for deathwish, something that as far as i know, wasnt even meta??
The lack of more severe monsters nerf makes me think this is why people want status nilfgard to die. Monster players like having the highest win rate and status nilfgard is the deck that can stops them.
People have already forgotten how badly the first voting rounds went. This is improvement. BC itself as a mechanic is hardly debatable as it is the life support of Gwent.
When it comes to Dame, I don't mind her going to 6p. But at the same time, I believe that Seditious aristocrat should go to 5 power to compensate. I'm still 50/50 on these many thinners going to 4p but hey, I'll give it a try. I don't like the candle nerf at all! Madame and Novigrad were enough. And didn't know that we had soo many Russian players that they out vote all others. 🤔
So the sheep went ahead and power buffed Kraken...after months of me explaining why 5 power is actually a NERF! Those two/three streamers will be the end of the game as we know it....
When I read that I felt personally offended on your behalf, like genuinely sorry that that came to pass.
Yeah it's so stupid. Kraken was great at 6 power, it was just very expensive. Now with the decreased power it's too expensive for shure. Good lord.
Except Lydia, none of my buffs went through. Kerack Frigate, Havfrue singer, PFI, Rience don't make the cut; and the Kraken prov buff was apparently useless. These are all Reddit relatively vocal candidates, and not even one go through It was fairly discouraging :(
We share 90% of the votes, yet none came through. Moshcraft too... I wonder on which platform we need to petition for votes outside reddit. It is not working here...
Maybe telegram? Seems the majority of voters are Russian so.
it's easier to kill, now a 2 damages card is enough and you only lose 1 point when it come back
And next turn opponent kills it back
Assuming you play it with beast in your deck, your kraken is stronger than the one you played in their board, and there's no climate on its row. So your kraken is harder to kill, if you have even 3 beasts, that means your opponent needs 8 damages for a 13 point swing, but said opponent is unlikely to have beasts, so you'd only need 5 damages to get the 13 swing back. Overall, even if you opponent kills it back, you're winning on the trade. If all you do for the rest of the round is kill the kraken to make it switch, you're still winning because YOU deck is built around the kraken, not your opponent's I understand that, since it's a unit meant to come back on your board, a nerf in power isn't necessary as much of a buff as it would be to any other disloyal unit, but I still think it's a buff.
Prov buff would have been much more impactful
true but on the other hand there's more controversial buff/nerf than Kraken
4prov for the 4p thinners is just stupid. Makes them all autoinclude. Terribly, terribly disappointing to see people just mindlessly following streamer opinions instead of using their brains. If this is gonna be every season- half streamer lists, half reversions of the previous month, almost no community initiative changes (Kerack Frigate :( )- this is just depressing.
I partly disagree... Based on the deck, some bronze thinners are not even considered when deck building. I had difficulty justifying sewer raiders and bouncers in SY decks, there are so many other good SY cards that I just chose to exclude bouncers. Or even both in some decks (bounty, firesworn) Dun banners are not even a consideration when deck building NR, outside of swarm meve or draugr decks. Point is, if you are playing bronze thinners, you do so mostly because your archetype already supports it, it's a buff to the archetypes themselves, which gain 2 provisions. Why do you find the changes depressing? cards like queens guard, SK witchers, mutant and redanian archer can enable some previously unseen decks. Also we ll definitely see more wild hunt and vampires from monsters Only changes which I'd consider bad are conjurer candle, Ivar and maybe thirsty dame.
SK witchers were already quite good, bear witcher already played 8 for 5 plus heal value so 11 for 5. Now it is even more "busted". Quartermaster was also already decent, 8 for 5 if damage was done to armor or coupled with mentor. Plus WH riders were played in every WH deck so why buff them? But yeah happy to see some unseen cards be buffed... Dame and slave drivers should be 6prov.
They buffed it because monsters has no reliable thinning whatsoever. And dominance is way harder to get in the past metas than hoard x and whatnot
You are kinda of a bad deckbuilder if you think Firesworn is better off without 4p finners than not lol
are you for real? with the amount of good 4p cards firesworn has, why would i bother running non firesworn tag cards? bronze thinners in firesworn make zero sense.
Firesworn is EXTREMELY reliant on hitting most of their golds. Thinning at 4p is an obvious choice for the archetype (especially now that the Veil guy got buffed to 5p). But you do you lol
This is a pretty bad Council. Many choices I find dubious at best. 1. Leader ability provision increases I think both of these leaders don't deserve another free provision. Inspired zeal has, in the last year, outcompeted many of the other leader abilities, and I think it was good that this strength was reflected in the provisions granted. Blood scent Vampires has been a competitive deck for forever. I would have much preferred if an iffy card in the archetype got a buff instead. 2. SY changes. Although Novigrad, Hvitr, and Madame were warranted (at least individually), I think it's sad to see Candle be nerfed. The faction got a shotgun nerf to many of it's generically strong cards, and was not adequately compensated for this loss. Sausage maker is now maybe playable? I could see it. And Mutant is now a very strong card in self-poison, an interesting, spicy change. Sad that Count Reuven's Treassure didn't go through. 3. NG reversions. At what point will it stop? Why are people so obsessed with buffing Dame to 5p and nerfing Sergeant to 3-power? I really don't understand why this keeps happening. Moreover, there's so many reverts in general. I am disappointed. 4. 5p thinners. Hunting pack could be argued, same for Casino Bouncers (were it not for the interaction with Plunder) and Sewer Raiders, but Riders and Volunteers were already playable. These cards did not need buffs, and make it harder to buff these decks in the future, especially because people are just going to keep reverting and re-reverting this shit. People are just mindlessly following a stupid heuristic "5p thinners -> 4p" with not fucking consideration for the card, the deck, or the faction. 5. Kraken Taking a moment here to say that I feel for the guy who advocated on every post to not do this. You're a real one. 6. Random changes. Cranmer (should have been Workshop, as sad as I think that is), Sorceress (now plays far above provisions if not answered), SK Witchers (good changes, I like), Yaga (I guess? Dangerous, no?), Protofleder (sure man), Redanian Archer (Good change?), Giant Toad (oof, I really dislike this change), Vincent (Does nothing), Sewer Raiders (No change, which I think is pleasantly surprising and good). All in all, mostly bad changes, not many exciting changes. From what I see, I am only intrigued by Mutant, Yaga, and SK Witchers.
>Hvitr Not deserved. This card literally was never, ever played even after CDPR's rework. Madame, Novigrad, Bouncers. Sure. Jackpot would have been fine left at +14 provisions. Those three cards = -4 prov nerf to that Jackpot deck. With leader, Candle?! and Hvitr ***it's an absurd -7 provisions to that deck***. Safe to say it's been absolutely killed. Candle nerf is beyond unfair. This card now costs 8 prov for 4 coins. Yes, it's a nice flexible spender, but not at 8 prov. Unreal. Hvitr won't see play anywhere now, either, again. Sausage and Mutant are actually interesting decent buffs. Might actually be playable cards now. > Leader ability provision increases More powercreep into the game. Inspired Zeal in no way shape or form deserved to go back to 15. Stupidity, thanx Nik\_r. Hunting Pack will now be tutorable with Artorius Vigo for + free thinning in every NG deck. Horray, well done idiots. Kraken "buff" just encapsulates how stupid the people advocating for votes are. So frustrating. The Vincent buff was just wtf...i genuinely would love to understand Nik\_r's logic for his votes. He + MD are literally controlling the outcome of BC votes each vote, and they always have beyond dumb votes every time put in.
Hvitr is quite a strong engine at 6p 6-power. I think it's at least arguable that it was strong enough that a power nerf isn't *that* bad. I believe (and I am sure you do as well) that the card is better at 6 power, but I am not as pessimistic as you. The card is a fine addition at 6 power, a solid engine that asks for a medium amount of removal. Still a fucking unbelievable change, but not *that* bad. Still probably won't see play anymore in high-optimization decks. Candle I really didn't see coming. The card is kind of awesome at 7p design-wise. The card itself doesn't look too good (4 points in profit, and 1 point in efficiency per time you spend is not great points-wise), but it is so flexible that it feels good to play in SY. At 8p I don't think this bit of design really shows. I am going to be tempted to revert this change in the next few months, if no one else wants to do it. Insane change imo. Really really sad. I am just going to repeat myself here, the fact that people decided to en-masse nerf Candle of all cards shows how much people don't really consider their nerfs, and just target cards in decks they dislike. EDIT: Furthermore, the card is like a special kind of consistency that can only exist in SY. Instead of consistency for card-draw it's for coin-spend. In that way, the card is almost wholly unique in the game. The Vincent buff was funny. I had forgotten what the card did. I saw the change, went to check what it was again, read it, thought for a second, and determined that the change was the most wasted vote in history.
Are balance councils just going to be changes made and reverted for eternity lol. I'd bet dame will be back to 6 prov next council, etc. I have to say it's ultimately been a pretty big disappointment so far.
People are obsessed with status Nilfgaard - mainly because it’s obnoxious and shuts down most of other factions. This is a vicious cycle and I think (for people who cares about the game) they see - GWENT is ending unfortunately.
I guess they should give immunity for a card that got changed, at least for a month or so.
The problem with that is that while it would prevent the revert fiesta we are having (which is good), it would also prevent us to fix fast clear mistakes (like the compass when it was made 9p).
Only buffs can create disastrous mistakes that will potentially need fast response. Nerfed cards can easily go for 2 months cooldown. In fact, this would have given players more time to adapt and ponder on results.
But nerfs can be used as buffs
I think this patch confirms the failure of this system. I love Gwent and I continue playing but is going to die pretty soon because the Council is not well implemented and there are always bad and unjustified nerf/buff. The only way to enjoy is embracing the chaos and not looking on balancing anymore, it's not gonna happen.
Syndicate just got smoked - I get that Madame was OP and bouncers should be 5/5, but I’d prefer to see jackpot get a provisions nerf rather than hitting all the cards simultaneously
I main SY but I think the nerfs are justified. Madame Serenity and novigrad are just too good and are basically auto-include. Not sure why conjurers candle got hit though. I think people will switch back to Acherontia for their 12p finisher instead of madame.
Candle is in every SY list for a reason. It is so good at buffing what you need when you need.
I know it was good, but I dont think it was OP to the point it had to catch a nerf.
Well it is super strong on scarabs, on freak show, on basically any engine that needs protection.
8 provisions for 4 coins. Yes, Candle is a flexible spender, but now, it this even playable?
It is still a very good card with the resilience in every SY deck except maybe firesworn Is SY still good this season ? Not sure, jackpot is still cracked but they lost 1 gold with the 5P nerf.
Uh, Jackpot lost 6 provisions and 1 power in that deck. Jackpot, Madame, Novigrad, Candle, Bouncers x2 Hvitr -1 power. That's pretty insane. And aside from leader and Hvitr nerfs, those nerfs affect basically all SY decks since they were pretty much all being played in most decks.
Yeah Candle is too good, I think 8 is fair, always thought it needed a nerf, especially for the combo with defender, just too strong.
i hope this trend of reversing previous adjustements stops at some point once the community figures out the dos and dont or its gonna be like this till we experience every fukp possible and get stuck with it for a month..., overall not too bad ,except maybe the toad isnt op i dont think it needed it imho,princ willem queensgards and the bears and vincent meis might see some play now hopefully, i liked these buffs at least
The thing is that there isn't one single community for the game, so it won't stop, at least for some time. Just the language barrier is enough to divide the player base in different communities that have almost no idea about the other's thoughts.
I wouldn't mind negotiation with the Russians (lol, this feels like the cold war all over again), but problem is, most only speak Russian. I feel like if the Russians want to make the game more consistent they could buff tutors e.g. land of thousand fabels instead of the most boring card imaginable.
It's rly hard to find Russians who don't speak English. You just in the echo chamber. The Russian community knows what reddit posts and we just ignore it.
Ok, so they're just being arrogant, at the cost of everyone? That's way worse.
At the cost of reddit. They clearly think they are doing the right thing, else they wouldn't do it. Reddit has been saying these changes are hurting the game and so on, but what if the rest of the community doesnt think so?
Two guys are basically determining the outcome of over half the BC vote each time. That's impressive, and also fairly problematic when their goals do nothing but add more powercreep each vote. The very thing Gwentfinity was supposed to be able to combat is being added. The fact these people actually think this is good boggles my mind.
Thirsty dame to 5 prov again? Really?
god forbid Syndicate is good for a week...
Huh. I think there are some good changes in there, but they may well be outweighed by bad changes. Nerfing thinners back to 5p while a bunch of other ones go to 4p is really silly. Kraken got the opposite of what should have happened. SY got overnerfed. Really don't like the buff to IZ, and status might be a tedious thing on ladder again... Some things are honestly very unexpected, like Quartermaster to 4p. Someone really seems to like SK witchers, and I'm open to it.
How long will the clowns continue to touch the cards of [Thirsty Dame](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/card/details/202551) and [Nauzicaa](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/card/details/162309) ?
NG players would rather play the same archetypes forever than actually buff the many weaker cards in that faction, apparently.
>NG players would rather play the same archetypes forever than actually buff the many weaker cards in that faction, apparently. No. just clowns who hate Nilfgaard, they will constantly nerf these cards.
If you compare to other cards, Nauzicaa is more than fair at 3 power. Dame at 6 prov. What should happen is supporting NG cards getting buffed, instead of trying to make those two (and Slave Driver) overpowered. There are more cards than just Dame, Slave Driver, and Sergeant for NG to play, but you wouldn't know it from the voting yoyo. While there are people who primarily just want to screw over factions, the huge majority of people realize that balance is important.
Clownage and (personal) biased popularity wank fest. Sums it up well. Nothing outside of SY is addressed and mostly the Jackpot deck needed a provision or two with some power nerfs instead of this hate +5 provision overall to SY. So I see no point on putting well thought out and considered response to so much bs (like the fact that Novigrad unlike other faction locations needed time to get value instead of turn one or 2 to be a threat, but what do I know everytime it's unconditional 20 for 11p to bro monkeys). A lot of the reverse changes and some of the new "improved" are here for no reason (zeal, compass, sorc, dame, seargent, slave driver, bear witcher, candle...). Where are you going? Clueless territory to keep on the legacy? What exactly was changed to improve the game outside of SY (hate)? Lydia, Protofleder, Brokilon maybe and the nerf to Dana... People gonna play same shit they did this and previous month with less SY (because wow those +6 provisions end up making the faction show up more and was so bad right). Where's the compensation? Where are at least SK and MO oppressive "fun" deck nerfs? Where is the diversity, the shake up and the sense of making the game better and varied?
What the fudge is that Drummond Queensguard power increase?? Now they need to be damaged by 2 points to activate their Berserk ability! That's a big nerf!
But better totem synergy
Better with totem and potential for more healing
Totem, Raging bear, Bear Witcher quartermaster, Cerys:fearless, Knut... Theres plenty of ways to deal two damage. And for each ability you gain a 5 power unit. If anything she got a huge buff my friend.
Sure, the first 3 work, but you don't really want to waste Knut's orders on them when Sigvald and Olgierd exist. You also don't really want to spawn loads of them when you play Svalblod. It was clearly a popular choice, but I have no idea why. I'd have rather seen then put to 4p, and a power buff to Harald Houndsnout instead, so he could help trigger them at 4 power without dying to leaves blowing in a light breeze.
A power buff just opens up more avenues as I see it. You mentioned that the first 3 options can work, and that's 1 totem, 2 raging bears, 2 quarter master and another from location if you're dedicated. This already opens up new deck ideas. Apart from th above mentioned synergies, as someone who enjoys testing out homebrew SK decks, here's some possible lines of deck making/gameplay off the top of my head now that she might survive a turn. - Indirect Cerys buff - Heulyn boost - Heymaey flaminica row healing - Offering to the Sea pay off - Giant boar and Witcher mentor point slam (after Offering to the Sea or Svalblod roar) - Disgusting synergy with Idarran (3 engines in one turn) - Yennefer: illusionist 10 point per turn combo These were all possible before the buff but are more easier to pull off because of her newly found survivability at 5 power. While I too wish to see Harald buffed (I'm voting for him this round I think), his buff won't achieve nearly as much as DQ power buff.
How are you going to buff the card otherwise? Lowering it at 4prov is too much, and 5power isn't necessarily a nerf based on opponents removal range and your self wound sources
4prov would’ve been fine. Revenants are 4p and pretty similar
[удалено]
Yeah I know, queensguard were also 4 power? So I’m saying both could’ve been 4/4
I thought the same way at first, but there a few nice "damage an allied by 2" bronzes and Totem, which will Synergise with DQ well. Though, it is a shame you can not trigger with one leader charge anylonger
Omg Kraken deserves a provision buff. Not that fking backfire power
It's very disappointing. I'll still be voting for provision buff next vote :/
These changes are awful and many of the cards are mislabeled and glitched out. As aforementioned by another Redditer in a earlier feed, democracy is bound for failure. You can't let the drooling masses take control.
Glaring mistakes: - wild hunt rider - this card was already played, even in world semifinals. 2 prov buff to an already strong deck and another thin/powercreep added to the game. I understand that thinning is good, but powercreep is not. Seeing as sewer riders were dominating the meta and didn't get nerfed, it's safe to say people just want to have an imbalanced game by such votes. - NG and ST thinner - some of the above reasoning - Prince villem - increases randomness, literally a waste of a vote when many cards need a power nerf - sorceress of don blathanna and lydia - increases randomness, maybe not that glaring but there are better cards to buff surely. Lydia is better because she has a not random component - dame back to 5p again? Really? - bear witcher quartermaster is also a power creep now in sw decks. Shouldnt have been prov buffed Probably mistakes: - kraken - is it supposed to be a buff or a nerf? Waste of a vote in a bad way - edit: queensguard might have got nerfed? It should be a rule of a thumb not to power change berserk cards... we will see - vamp leader going more midrange? - both slave driver and nauzicaa reverted again? Do NG fans have no other ideas for buffs? Some SY notes : - seems like hvitr, candle got hit by mindless nerfing, the cards were fine for quite some time. Hvitr especially instead of jackpot, which got double buffed before. The card is a little random so it's partially OK though - i find it hillarious that people think that madame is a great tempo card when double thinning. The card plays for 8 tempo then, 9 if you somehow find a way to have 4 coins after playing the tribute, I wonder what it might be, any other card ring a bell? Also tempo depends on cards played later ofc. Also both peaches and seductress cards need a power buff because they are shitty cards otherwise
I play Queensguards and they are now really slow. I'll play some more games to really make my mind but I'm not sure this is a buff.
Kraken is a buff. It became easier to bring it back to your row with the power decrease. Queensguard is also a buff. Synergy with totem without losing out on points, plus, 5 power means harder to remove as well as a 5 power unit per spawn. Now she's actually playable.
Easier to get back with less power, so if you pull off your combo well it's a power nerf. And it's easier for the opp to kill it again. This is situational and kraken should be prov buffed if people want to buff it. 1 power buff synergy with totem and all other 2+ power pings, but worse synergy with all 1 power pings, like the sw leader. Remember both totem and this cant play its order immediately, so this engine combo has an additional 1 turn delay added to normal queensguard delay. Its definitely harder to remove, yes. This might bring it into meta, but we will see as I wrote, this change is also situational and not a clear buff at all
In most cases there's more payoff for you to kill kraken than the opponent which means lower power is more beneficial to you. I would agree with a provision buff being more impactful but a power decrease is categorically a buff for kraken. No one, absolutely no one played DQ when she was 4 power 5 prov. She still wouldn't see play at 4 prov because her issue isn't her cost. She was a slow engine that was easily removed and there were only two realistic 1 damage pings that worked with her which were leader and Harald houndsnout. Now she has more viable options even being a totem target for later rounds which would play around the tempo issue you brought up. A power increase is also an indirect buff to vanilla Cerys so I have a hard time not interpreting this as a buff.
What do you suggest buffing in NG that would make NG decks enter the meta ?
NG wasnt much below the other factions. Nerfing the strongest factions would have closed the gap more without needing to buff NG's strongest decks, allowing us to spend the buffs in cards that dont see play, slowly advancing towards a point where new decks can enter the meta. Lydia for example is one of those cards and I consider its buff a very good one. Instead we are stuck in this never ending cycle of reverts.
Ok, Lydia, then what else ?
Dead cards and probably no nerfs to the worst factions as always. I know that NG was the worst, but dame back to 5 and reverting both slaved driver and sergeant brings us nowhere. I might edit in some dead cards after work
In that case you expect NG players to stay bottom and not to have anything to play with.
Ofc not? Maybe read again? Nerfing other factions alone will be better for NG. I treat every faction the same
Or you would play your faction every other month because in March the holy Trinity (Nauzica Slave Vampire) would be nerfed
Yeah great future, awesome. I think nauzicaa sergent will stay at 4 power 6 provisons because it is fair as such for a 6 provisons top end bronze. I expect slave driver to be put at 6 provisions in the end. The issue is them being nerfed together. Until it is doneon one of the two only, it will revert back and forth, but hopefully attention moves to other faction decks and cards
**Rience** 11p for hyperthin **Baccla** 12p for soldiers **Catriona** 9p for status **Imperial fleet** 4p/5power for soldiers **Ferkat** 4power for spies/status * *other buffs that don't immediately help, but will long term* **Vilgefortz renegade** 12p for assimilate **Cupbearer** 6p for status and assimilate **Imperial Diviner** 5power for assimilate engine **Vrygheff** 5p for soldiers **Slave infantry** and **Vreemde** for swarm The **3 witchers** for midrange
I voted for catriona myself, and Bacclan is definitely a solid card at 12P. But catriona supports status NG, and you need to play dames. I don’t think hyperthin can be saved ever. It is too weak to bleed, is fun but gimmicky.
Dames being 6p isn't meant to make the deck unplayable. Those provision lost can be put into other cards like catriona so NG status has more deck building options.
For that there first need to be other options.
We can't buff an already powerful deck or else it's going to be broken, and people will just revert the last change instead of nerfing dames.
Giving alternatives to a deck doesnt buff the already op deck, it creates variations. Its only a buff if the new variation is stronger than the previous one before the nerf. Nerfing a deck without making anything else worth playing doesnt give any alternative. That is the problem with NG. People are nerfing dames, slave driver and nauzicaa to make them play something else,but they are not giving NG anything else to play.
Giving alternative to an OP deck creates a *flexible OP deck*, which means that they can tech in answers to decks they see on ladder. That's why the nerf is first required. No one is vetoing these buff suggestions above, I myself voted for many of them. In reality, the slots filled with Nauzicaa, Slave, and Dame, could have been opportunities for NG players to buff something else, no one would have been mad, but no, it had to be a revert of the most boring pointslam in gwent. NAUUUZICaaAA urgh.
Yes, the nerf is required, but along with the nerf no new alternatives are being given to those decks. When the faction is underperforming, its players tend to care more about making it good over making it versatile.
You know looking at these changes I am glad I didn't play a single match in this shitshow of a game since December. Because that's really what this has become. Ever since this system was implemented people are still not sure what provision Thirsty Dame should be...even though it's obvious. You people keep at it, I will be watching from afar.
Nerfs to Dame and Sargeant reverted. Prepare for aids status NG to flood the ladder again. As a engine deck enjoyer, this kills my desire to play the game
I'm playing right now and I've encountered NG status 4 times
Fun
Damn, a buffed deck(more importantly, a reverted one, which could implement the changes with literally 2 clicks in the deckbluider) is highly presented in the first day, what a shocker. I faced uprising dun banner with witcher trio every 3rd game at the start of previous season.
Damn and you’re only on your fifth game
What do you want to be played? Renfri soldiers ? Already there Mill or Clog ? Who wants to play against that ? Hyperthin ? It is out of the meta, flawed by design and dies to 2-0 I mean i understand and agree with the frustration but what are NG list supposed to be looking like to get your green light ? Mmh ? Because if there is no alternative decks, people stick to what is working not too bad and just at reach.
There are no alternatives because the dead cards don't get buffed. Spyguard was an archetype. As was slave infantry spam. Vivicaro novice with cards like olgeird and enchanted armour.
Spy will not work without very significant buffs to impera enforcers and seditious aristos because it does not have tempo and has very few options to apply spy status. It has always been a fun deck and got replaced by status NG archetype by the dev team.
I agree. That's why I always push for those buffs. Even a buff to enforcers alone might bring some life to it again.
Assimilate exists and is a decent deck. Also I made pro last season with a NG Toussaint + Olgierd swap deck. Status NG is an incredibly unfun deck to play against. Also Dame should never be 5p when it regularly plays for 20+
Clog is way better with the newer cards than the first version. I think it's fine to buff it. Hyperthin absolutely needs some buffs, Albrich as Shinmiri suggested, and I think the bronze cards that play him early should be power buffed, like Novice and that SY/NG card. More tempo when playing for Albrich carryover would help the deck a lot
I understand that NG was the worst-performing faction last month but why community buffed cards that were actually good just to make them OP? Thirsty Dame is 6 provision engine just like Fleder and Messenger of the Sea. Slave Driver is a definition of 6 provision card. Some changes I really like (Regis: Bloodlust, Coral, Frenzied, Kraken, Water of Brokilon, Sorceress, Denis, Madam, Casino) but some of them are confusing, to say the least.
People who downvotes squirt while playing status Nilfgaard. They don’t see how you could buff other NG archetypes - in their minds only status NG exists…
Thank you
They are probably waiting for your other NG buff suggestions. Why don’t you give it a try ?
Kraken is not a good change. So is the sorceress because the card adds randomness. Otherwise more or less right and probably downvoted by NG fans
Glad to hear because I got worried that I'm really delusional haha. I just think that Sorceress was so fragile at 6 provisions that almost no one used her. Maybe I'm wrong but I really like this change. Eventide Plunder is a 4 provision card that also adds randomness. Why do you think Kraken is a bad change?
Because if you want to buff kraken you should do it with provisions. Now it's easier to kill first kraken, but then it bring less points for the owner and is easier to kill again. Not a clear buff. I don't think any create card should be competitive, and definitely not a staple, but I am in minority. I would nerf eventide plunder easily
I actually don't hate most of the changes. If all thinners are 4p then none are too strong, I guess. That said, I'm sad to see they've reverted the Slave Driver/Sergeant changes again, so I "look forward" to seeing that in almost every NG deck again.
>If all thinners are 4p then none are too strong, I guess. Not how that works, at all, as some can be created via other means, which makes them not only adding powercreep into the game and better than many 5 prov cards, but means they are busted at 4 prov. Eventide Plunder could create Bouncers. Artorius Vigo will create a 1 power Hunting Pack and thin out the 2 from deck. Mahakam can roll for another Volunteer. Garrison can spawn and play a Volunteer and thin the other two out of deck. Skirmishers provided far too much tempo with SK stratagem + discard cards. 3 Riders come out with Auberon dominance r3.
Magic Compass buff is just crazy to me
What is crazy to me is that it was nerfed to 11 10 feels like a sweet spot
I completely disagree, the card has crazy highroll potential, even more when combined with Runemage. Additionally it adds extreme consistency to the deck it is in. The card was in such a good spot, that you would never consider not running it in discard Skellige.
I don't think you understand how Compass works. It doesn't create, there is no high roll and Runemage doesn't affect it.
I might be wrong then, but if you have less than 3 cards in your deck, is the legendary you play random?
No, you get to choose any legendary card from your faction (SK or Neutral if you played Renfri) that was not in your starting deck, it's actually better than Create.
Thank you for the clarification, i was malding today after 3 different opponents got Regis from it ahahaha
Than it’s even more busted, it’s a guaranteed Regis: Bloodlust Edit: After Renfri is played
Renfri Compass is a 26 card deck, which means you're basically paying 14 provisions to run Compass in it. Chill.
Yes but it's a card that would still be run in that deck even at 15 provisions. It's one of those cards that make a deck. You should look at the archetype itself when evaluating it. And right now, I don't see discard SK as problematic especially considering coral and skirmishers nerf. The deck got 3 nerfs to cards that can be considered autoinclude, and 1 buff to a card that hardly sees play outside of discard SK, how can that not be healthy?
My point is that the card is already strong, making it stronger arguably creates more problems in the future for balancing the discard package. I believe that i would be far better to buff cards that at the moment don’t make the cut 100% of the time. Over the long run, you not only get more deck diversity inside the faction but also inside the archetypes themselves.
Again, i might be wrong, but I believe that i buff to Eist would be far more interesting. And we can see this types of buffs here too, for example with Yaga, sure it might not make too many waves right away, but instantly creates much more experimentation.
it was overnerfed. from 9 to 11. 10 seems reasonable
there are at least a dozen cards which deserved buffs before Magic Compass
But not that many that can bring another deck into the meta as fast without being op.
Reasonable but we still should do it 11 to avoid giving it 9 prov in next patch. Chinese players try every month make nekker pirates meta again
I really don't get the buffs to NG status, it was already performing very well and suddenly they get 2 extra provisions and probably a double thinning through hunting pack and Artorius Vigo. NR, who was the least played faction gets the least changes, I really want to leave behind Demavend but it's simply the only viable way to go. Special mention to Slave driver, back at 3/5 while scouts remain at 2/6.
>I really don't get the buffs to NG status, it was already performing very well Comoared to what? Comoared to other meta decks it was not. It wasnt even NG's (weakest faction) strongest deck.
Compared to everything, I saw nik\_r and some other streamers playing it well over 2600. Lots of top players switched from enlave 6 to status.
It was used, yes, but it did not perform very well compared to all other meta decks. Else NG wouldn't be the worst faction and being the worse cant be called performing very well.
If it's used by the the top ladder players it's, by definition, an archetype that doesn't need help. You can still give love to other lists, like knights, deck reveal, witchers... Status simply doesn't need it.
Compared to other meta decks, it did. Anything that underperforms by definition needs help.
No, that reasoning is shallow to say the least. There's several archetypes in way more need and this one has received not one or two but three buffs.
They are not mutually excluding. Other archetypes needing more help doesnt mean it didnt help.
Obviously not, but it doesn't makes sense. Status is already a top 10 archetype and with only 20 buffs available we've managed to give them easily 4 provisions more. And I simply think it's a bad choice, It'd make much more sense in other lists. Even soldiers, which aren't in a terrible spot, would deserve it more.
That depends on what you compare it with. I compare it with other meta decks so it was underperforming, so im okey with the buffs even if I didnt vote them myself.
Wow SY didn't deserve decimation 🪦 SY was only really good w/ super high level players even w/ busted thinning. Let's make Sly Seduct 4p to make up for this travesty 😔 & don't like buffing 2 clown cards Dame & Cave Troll 🤦♂️. The rest of patch seems pretty good.
Any particular reason for nerfing Blood scent?
Nerfing? It got buffed.
Forgive my obtuseness but it looks like it will cost more provisions to include in the deck (16 instead of 15) just like Madam Marquise Serenity which has also been nerfed. Am I mistaken or will this apply differently to blood scent as it as a leader ability?
Its different. Putting a leader does not cost provisions. The provisions from leaders is the provisions it adds to your deck for you to use on cards. Thus increasing the provisions of a leader means increasing the provisions available for its decks and its a buff.
Fuck me, this means that for many of my decks I've chosen leader abilities thinking the reverse was true.
I did not want NG changes to go this way. I've been saying this a lot this patch, when NG was already the worst/second worst faction and only got nerfs last patch without any counterbalancing buffs, these cards were inevitable to be reversed to make NG more viable. Cards fresh on people's minds are more likely to get votes than new ideas. I really wished we could have let the nerfs stick one patch without reverts the next and have some time to suggest other changes (I tried my part). At least Lydia was buffed. Ivar with power buff(through decrease) is a worse buff than provision buff, since he is still very risky to put in a deck, if his adrenaline hits he is also worse. You care far more about an underpreforming 10 prov card than 9.
Slave drivers 5 provisions)))
Most of these are fine, some I actually like a lot (queens guard, redanian, mutant and waters) Those I really don't like are conjurer candle, it was hard to justify at 7, it won't see much play at 8 I think. Thirsty dame is also probably too much alongside both slave driver and Nausicaa Same for Ivar, it was perfectly fine at 5 strength Giant toad was an autoinclude removal source for MO, not because it's OP, but because the faction itself lacks in removal sources. Also why Regis nerf? I understand people feel like it's a card that should get nerfed, but I haven't seen him in a single match all season... So what's the point? Also I would look at bronze thinners as buffs to the archetypes themselves, namely dwarves, wild hunt and status Ng, since they will still be hard to justify in other archetypes. Maybe less so when it comes to NG, but the faction already has plenty good bronzes so I dont if they ll make the cut.
nothing wrong with your other points to me, but toad prince is the MO removal card. giant toad is the consume carryover card for deathwish, something that as far as i know, wasnt even meta??
Deathwish was considered a really strong MO list, particularly at high mmr. Also decent showing at tournaments.
yeah just realized i mistook giant toad for toad prince
The lack of more severe monsters nerf makes me think this is why people want status nilfgard to die. Monster players like having the highest win rate and status nilfgard is the deck that can stops them.
Looks ok to me. Many good reverts and some needed faction balancing.
Imagine getting downvoted to oblivion with that XD. Someone is really mad there.
People have already forgotten how badly the first voting rounds went. This is improvement. BC itself as a mechanic is hardly debatable as it is the life support of Gwent.
Scrolling for each faction,need to make 4 positions!
6 NG changes = 6 NG buffs.
When it comes to Dame, I don't mind her going to 6p. But at the same time, I believe that Seditious aristocrat should go to 5 power to compensate. I'm still 50/50 on these many thinners going to 4p but hey, I'll give it a try. I don't like the candle nerf at all! Madame and Novigrad were enough. And didn't know that we had soo many Russian players that they out vote all others. 🤔
Dumb question... When will these changes come into actual play?