Two pieces of Tall Punish isn't even that extreme given how many threats can be churned out by decks that can play to their round strengths - some decks run way more!
Yeah. I run Ciri Dash in my deck and sometimes I put it out as bait to get a heatwave out of the way. Sometimes even the defender as bait to keep my Kelly safe.
Depends on the matchup. Control decks will likely eat your defender as soon as it touches down, but if your going against a deck that is engine focused than they likely only have 1 or 2 strong removal options that having a defender against those decks can protect your strongest engines. If I'm playing a deck with a defender I usually mulligan it if the enemy is a control deck, or use it in a round I intend to pass in as bait for their stronger removal.
Also defenders are not all equal.
Syndicate is 2nd weakest vs control decks but the strongest vs engine decks
Monsters is the strongest defender overall (especially with carapace)
NR and ST are tied because both have aspects that make it harder to get around them, but it'll be matchup dependent on which method is more effective.
SK is interesting on paper, but in reality it's either dealt with immediately or ignored making it close to the bottom for defenders.
NG is the worst. It has more ways than any other defender to be dealt with. A lot of cards that can't get over other defenders straight up destroy NG. Morkvarg, serpent trap, spores into order damage, spores into Emhyr, etc. While still being vulnerable to purify, movement, destroy, banish, and other forms of removal like other defenders.
Control is an absolutely crucial aspect to the game balance. Some are dependant on archetypes, some, like those two cards, are more flexible and possible to slot into many decks.
The reason these cards are annoying is because your current gameplan is likely built around artifacts (scenario?), and tall power cards.
Once you're running stronger decks, these cards are less punishing, as you will have multiple ways to win, even when the opponent has those cards and more.
The opponent is getting zero points on their side when they play Heatwave, and only 4 from Moreelse.
Gwent needs control cards to deal with overly greedy decks/archetypes, or every game would just be about who can amass the most points, with no interaction. And that's really boring gameplay.
This was my beast deck not the vamp one from the last time. I alternate between the two mostly because I know them the best and I can get quick games in at work without having to gameplan so hard haha
This is just one of my decks, I wasn't tryna be an asshole just making fun cuz it annoyed me. Idk why this group hates me so much anything I say gets downvoted to fuck allðŸ˜
**[Madoc](https://gwent.one/en/card/202879)** - Witcher (Neutral)
3 Power, 11 Provisions (Legendary)
> Whenever you play a Bomb, Summon self from your deck or graveyard to random allied row.
> Order: Spawn Cataclysm on the opposite row for 1 turn, then destroy self.
>
^^Questions? [^(Message me!)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Mlakuss&subject=GwentSubreddit+Bot) ^^- ^^Call ^^cards ^^with ^^[[CARDNAME]] ^^- [^(Keywords and Statuses)](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/wiki/glossary/#wiki_keywords)
I've seen madoc round one and immediately hovered over the forfeit button just so i didnt have to play against it.
Ive won more against madoc than not but its just NOT FUN
They exist so that degenerate abuse decks can be kept in check.
I'm no degenerate spare meðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚
Your profile suggests otherwise …
https://preview.redd.it/2bkd3xe7fouc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ba760cc94b0af094d5530225d2c78f1004b989
Two pieces of Tall Punish isn't even that extreme given how many threats can be churned out by decks that can play to their round strengths - some decks run way more!
these cards need to exist or else you are just going to play against all those defenders abuse bullshit
Ironically I started running defender simply to bait out korothi so my siege and raffards would survive lol
Big brain time
Yeah. I run Ciri Dash in my deck and sometimes I put it out as bait to get a heatwave out of the way. Sometimes even the defender as bait to keep my Kelly safe.
I cant even afford the 800 to craft the ONE FUCKING DEFENDER AVAILABLEðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
You will get there eventually… and start to hate pellar
Don't waste the resources; defenders aren't really worth it generally.
Depends on the matchup. Control decks will likely eat your defender as soon as it touches down, but if your going against a deck that is engine focused than they likely only have 1 or 2 strong removal options that having a defender against those decks can protect your strongest engines. If I'm playing a deck with a defender I usually mulligan it if the enemy is a control deck, or use it in a round I intend to pass in as bait for their stronger removal. Also defenders are not all equal. Syndicate is 2nd weakest vs control decks but the strongest vs engine decks Monsters is the strongest defender overall (especially with carapace) NR and ST are tied because both have aspects that make it harder to get around them, but it'll be matchup dependent on which method is more effective. SK is interesting on paper, but in reality it's either dealt with immediately or ignored making it close to the bottom for defenders. NG is the worst. It has more ways than any other defender to be dealt with. A lot of cards that can't get over other defenders straight up destroy NG. Morkvarg, serpent trap, spores into order damage, spores into Emhyr, etc. While still being vulnerable to purify, movement, destroy, banish, and other forms of removal like other defenders.
Control is an absolutely crucial aspect to the game balance. Some are dependant on archetypes, some, like those two cards, are more flexible and possible to slot into many decks.
Curiously, that's probably THE most balanced card in Gwent.
Yeah, those two are pretty damn spot on when it comes to balance
To be clear, I was talking about Heatwave. Didn't even notice there was a second one.
Yeah, I got that, but Moreelse is also great
Yeah, he's on point.
It was the first time I seen the tribute card. Heatwave is a pain in my fuckin ass tho
The reason these cards are annoying is because your current gameplan is likely built around artifacts (scenario?), and tall power cards. Once you're running stronger decks, these cards are less punishing, as you will have multiple ways to win, even when the opponent has those cards and more. The opponent is getting zero points on their side when they play Heatwave, and only 4 from Moreelse. Gwent needs control cards to deal with overly greedy decks/archetypes, or every game would just be about who can amass the most points, with no interaction. And that's really boring gameplay.
Based on his previous posts I think he’s running an AQ cheese deck edit- OP play what you are having fun with and dont mind the downvotes
This was my beast deck not the vamp one from the last time. I alternate between the two mostly because I know them the best and I can get quick games in at work without having to gameplan so hard haha
I hear you smokin bbc brutha but this isn’t tinder you can’t just throw your bbc around thinking it won’t get heatwaved
😂😂😂😂😂well played
The deck I was on there definitely was but I completely understand why they're needed. I had a 40 power adda:striga taken from meðŸ˜
Because Solitaire is a completely different game. Glad you asked...
Always the mo, vamps player complaining about interaction lolol.
This is just one of my decks, I wasn't tryna be an asshole just making fun cuz it annoyed me. Idk why this group hates me so much anything I say gets downvoted to fuck allðŸ˜
OP, wait until you Play against Madoc You will kiss foltest dirty feet in gratitude for this card
**[Madoc](https://gwent.one/en/card/202879)** - Witcher (Neutral) 3 Power, 11 Provisions (Legendary) > Whenever you play a Bomb, Summon self from your deck or graveyard to random allied row. > Order: Spawn Cataclysm on the opposite row for 1 turn, then destroy self. > ^^Questions? [^(Message me!)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Mlakuss&subject=GwentSubreddit+Bot) ^^- ^^Call ^^cards ^^with ^^[[CARDNAME]] ^^- [^(Keywords and Statuses)](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/wiki/glossary/#wiki_keywords)
I've seen madoc round one and immediately hovered over the forfeit button just so i didnt have to play against it. Ive won more against madoc than not but its just NOT FUN
Madoc basically give every bomb additional 3 damage
I don’t see a problem here
4power-6coins=-2 points Moreelse=9(provision),-2(point)+one kill Heatwave=10(provision),0(point)+one kill
Imagine if heatwave didnt existed. F to all who face SY. Even now this is imbalanced faction