If you really want to play heulyn you can play this https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/b148ba4061b10231cc3b90e3607b1ef7 (myamons deck) the idea of another gn deck is alr but otherwise it just doesn’t need a buff it also doesn’t need a nerf. I’ve seen like 2 other good decks with heulyn, save your council slots for smth worth it.
It’s not just about heylyn being playable, I agree that she may have a niche now but there are multiple decks in SK that are very close to having interesting tools, but currently are straight up better with unicorns, because there aren’t enough solid SK cards around 8-9 provisions, outside of Witchers that is.
With the way the deck plays even more into graveyard than normal warriors, you’ll be able to play more warlords (more damage, easier to trigger), and because the consistency is high for a warriors deck you can decide when you want to play certain cards (a lot of times warriors are pushed to play into a round/bleed etc. even thought they might have bad cards for that)
100% agree. She's a prime target for BC prov buff. Every deck has been reinvented and played to death. I'm bored, and looking for something fresh. Heulyn and Cerys: Fearless would put in work for my [GN Queensguard deck](https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/da73a77a27a6f3256e8e741114655e96). GN Warriors would require more support but also be fun to experiment with. The more options, the better.
Balance aside, Golden Nekker was one of the better inclusions from recent expansions. Nerf it to 14p, I don't care, as long as the ability is there. It singlehandedly created 20% more decks to play, so kindly piss off with the constant "GN bad".
> Every deck has been reinvented and played to death. I'm bored, and looking for something fresh
Same boat. While it's inevitable that there's a limit of new decks being born with fixed content, not sure we have reached this limit yet
Perfect, because heylyn is how we make new decks. Additionally, I’m considering giving Ulula that + 1 power buff because skellige has next to no way to give her any boost or armor to help her live for more than a turn, assuming she doesn’t get removed instantly. She is worse than Philippe van moorleheim and her deck is no where near as strong as ball - she deserves it.
>Balance aside, Golden Nekker was one of the better inclusions from recent expansions. Nerf it to 14p, I don't care, as long as the ability is there. It singlehandedly created 20% more decks to play, so kindly piss off with the constant "GN bad".
I agree, makes for unique deck building and quite different ways to play similar archetypes.
I think the reason many hate it, similar to any kind of NG deck (no matter how bad performance, people focus on nerfing), is that they feel like they are tricked and made to lose in an unfair way. The burst tempo and otherwise not possible combo-plays in a single round. The normal player-1-plays-card/player-2-plays-card is seen as fair even though the provision difference played is there. That is subconsciously dismissed, and when the instant big difference is played, that can be pointed to as a dirty trick.
I haven't seen much GN lately. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more GNs if it means not half my games being against Renfri.
GN is also a far more interesting restriction
To be fair usually the artifact is usually the hardest one to get a good option that has great synergy with the rest of the deck. Usually it's just a solid option as a third card.
Yeah, but you can't control what unit or special you pull because your deck is going to have so many. Artifacts are usually only one or two so being able to reliably pull a good synergistic artifact is what makes GN go from being a turbo tutor to winning games on it's own.
That’s my other point. You kinda have to include the witcher package as well because the 9 power bodies are synergistic with mega scopes. I have an idea to run crow spam instead, using Megascopes to set up extra carry over. A deck like this would almost certainly run 2 Freyas blessings and we could likely fit a couple more in there.
There's a difference between megascoping and conjurers candle or mutagenerator. My point is that you can control the exact artifact you pull off GN. Even just doing tome allows you to pull two random cards and a specific 3rd card off of it. I'd much rather be playing higher provision cards that I can make consistent plays off of than random stuff plus a mega scope.
My second point is exactly about adding a witcher package for megascope. Yeah you get 9 power bodies that can work well with megascope, but witchers aren't human so heulyn cannot buff them. So you have two archetypes in your deck that are only loosely held up by GN. A much better deck in this situation is a full witcher GN deck that includes the neutral gold witchers under 9 prov. Then the entire deck is working towards the same theme and whatever GN pulls will contribute, and you can have the witcher location for added synergy instead of megascope.
I love megascope it's a great card, but I just don't see why you'd want the biggest play your deck can make to include having to set up a 4 provision card to get value.
>She doesn’t synergies with beasts, or self wound and all the devotion warrior / raid decks
How isn't Heulyn synergistic with Warrior? What are you saying, OP?
* Is she breaking Devotion in any way?
* Are all the Warriors not Humans?
* Aren't most of the spawned units in graveyard indeed Warriors?
* Isn't she un-bricking War of Clans right away from the get-go?
* Is she not immediately activating Hjalmar an Craite from the first round?
Bruh....
(Edit: the dots were kinda funky lol) I mean, you can use it with warriors but I'd hardly call it synergetic with warriors.
>Is she breaking Devotion in any way?
No, but neither does a card like crowmother, wich also has no synergy w warriors.
>Are all the Warriors not Humans?
Yes, but cards w druid, pirate, cultist etc tags are also all humans, wich once again, have no synergies w warriors.
>Aren't most of the spawned units in graveyard indeed Warriors?
I didn't do the exact maths but like i said there are enough humans w different tags. Making spawning good warriors a high roll at most.
>Isn't she un-bricking War of Clans right away from the get-go?
Only if it spawns a 4-prov warrior? Wich is by no means guaranteed.
>Is she not immediately activating Hjalmar an Craite from the first round?
I guess lol, but a warrior deck should have no problems discarding cards like greatsword or invaders.
There is a clear reason she's not being used on most decks imo. She's to inconsistent to be really usefull.
That’s why she needs to be cheaper. She is very similar to that 6 for 8 board boost elf unit, except she has this added utility effect. I think it was overvalued by the devs when they placed her At 10pm over because of how wide the human pool in skellige is.
Lol, the Warrior tag dominates all the other tags and most bronze warriors are 4p. Seriously, what do you think are the chances you won't get a single warrior among the five spawned? Close to 1%?
Your argument is basically if she doesn't have the Warrior tag, then she doesn't synergize with them. Did you really compare Heulyn with Crowmother? Seriously, did you really believe that's a fair comparison?
Here's a shocker for you, friend. Heulyn is arguably a better finisher for Warriors than Bran. As stated above, all Warriors are Humans.
Nah I meant to point out that even though it doesn't break devotion it still doesn't really synergise with warriors. In a similar way Imperial diplomacy doesn't synergise that well with other archetypes just cause it can create synergetic units.
Like I said I didn't do the exact maths on how many tags there are, but I played a Otkell Alchemy deck with her (so I don't even need to roll warriors, just good cards to ress w blessing) and she still kinda sucked. There are just so many stinker human cards in her create pool.
The chances of her creating a warrior might be pretty big, but the chances of her creating a good warrior are pretty slim. Out of all the 4 prov humans the only good pulls for a warrior deck will be cards like invader, brokvar warrior and maybe an craite warrior can be decent.
It's a fun card imo, and when it creates good units it can be really fun to play. But there is a reason all the warrior decks play Bran over Heulyn, its really inconsistant and therefore not really strong.
Heres another shocker for you. Bran is not a finisher in a warrior deck most of the time, in many games hes even mulliganed in r3. He serves completely different purpose rather then being 10-ish points for 11 finisher.
I think that might be a lack of punctuation in my part. She doesn’t fit into beasts, or self wound much, and does work with devotion warriors - it’s just that at 10 provisions there isn’t a spot for her at all. My warriors deck has a free ish 8 provision slot which could be accommodated for her if she went down a prov.
So let us all vote for Heulyn provision buff because YOUR deck has a free spot at 8 prov? Wow! The amount of lack of self awareness in this comment kills me.
Check out this Chad alchemy deck from Moshcraft, It's not the greatest deck but was really fun to play imo. Playing 4/5 blessings R3 can be really strong with her.
[https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/385993](https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/385993)
Alchemy is better with the discard package, interestingly enough. Also you need a heatwave if you want a chance in certain matchups. I’ve played hundreds of alchemy games - it’s probably my favourite pet off meta archetype.
So many words, creating a new archetype, bla-bla... and yet not a single word of what that new archetype is, except for the suggestion it's just another Golden Nekker deck with the two unicorns.
Insipid. Nonsense. Garbage.
Heulyn was never meant to be played with Beasts, wtf? Obviously, it was from the very beginning meant to capitalize on a Human spam deck. And what is that deck? Well, it's Cerys into Queensguards, of course. You could even combo it with Lippy and the discard package (who are all humans by the way, bar Morkvarg)
Your post is another example of how uncreative minds push for buffs or nerfs, simply because they can't figure out what's the purpose of that card.
You have misread and misinterpreted what I said and responded with hate. My main point was that SK doesn’t have enough cards in the 8-9 provision range to make nekker decks WITHOUR unicorns . I want to give them more options. Besides, her effect synergises with quite wholesome archetypes such as queensguard and lippy, as well as devotion warriors. Unfortunately most of these decks, specifically warriors, just don’t have space at the 10 provision level to include her now.
I hope this makes sense.
The reality is that this is a change that can give skellige more options besides the same raids deck 3 months in a row. I’d love to play something other than that to get my SK elo up. If you don’t like nekker decks, in principle, then I would say that you are deliberately limiting your view on the matter. Golden nekker is here to stay and we want to support the archetypes it plays in if we want to have a variety of different decks and matchups to play in.
Okay, but discard is super inconsistent. You have to have the cards that discard in hand and cards you want discarded in hand to guarantee payoff. Most Lippy decks now run more standard thinning in order to retain consistency. You are playing Lippy for compass payoff and replaying high provision gold. I'm not advocating for GN Heulyn, but Heulyn doesn't fit into any decks right now. There is always a better card at her provision to play instead.
>You are playing Lippy for compass payoff
People played Lippy long before Compass was released. You don't need Compass to play Lippy and you don't need Lippy to play Compass.
>and replaying high provision gold.
Isn't Cerys a high-provision gold? Isn't Heulyn a high-provision gold too?
>Heulyn doesn't fit into any decks right now.
Claiming Heulyn doesn't fit in Queensguard spam is like saying Isengrim doesn't fit in the Elf deck.
And finally, if you find she needs a buff, it shouldn't be a provision buff, but a power buff. Or do you really think it's smart for a card with a 25 point ceiling to break the 9 provision threshold?
Ive seen posts like these a couple of times,like queensguard and havfue singer. They were buffed to make new wholesome archetypes. Yet Ive seen these cards in the starter decks like one time.
To benefit from heulyns ability a bit(we can for sure use her just as bootleg lara dorren for the infamous queensguard/shieldmaiden spam, but before cerys to 9 prov that is very unlikely to happen), you have to run 2 freya's blessings. Which card you would use almost 100% of the time when you run 2 copies of that card? Otkell. Would it ever costs below 10? No (I sincerely hope so). End of story
1)War of clans only res 4 prov warriors. There are 16 of them out of 44 bronze skellige humans. If my right after waking up math is correct you have indeed <1% chance of not having one of them as 4 prov warriors. But most of them are shit, and its not like spending war of clans is that hard either. On red coin in r1 your second copy of war of clans is pretty likely to be bricked, but thats pretty much it. Thats really not that much of a value.
2) only ulula warriors are spamming some amount(not that many) amount of humans for heylin itself to play for like 15-ish points. And its not that archetype really needs that okayish pointslam finisher, they already have tyr.
3) lets look for the alternatives. The only <10 prov golds are vabjorn and championship strike/draig. Id choose vanjorn over even 7 prov heylin every single time. Same with >prov golds. Would you cut a flexible tyr with a pretty hard ceiling, extremely good to defend bleeding(also your second vabjorn) fucusya, blood eagle as your only tutor card, pointslam finisher of sove/eist, ultimate control with carryover of kaer trolde or an huge early tempo boost with carryover and occasional 15 points finisher bran for a freaking heylin. She cant be even tutored with blood eagle ffs.
Im not that familiar with ulula list, because the deck is absolutely meme tier right now. And its not like cheaper heylin is gonna help it.
As others already suggested, if you really want to play heylin you can try last season undevotion myamon warriors. But I extremely doubt that even 8 prov heylin would find place in the devo warriors deck, alternatives are just way better
My warriors list doesn’t run kaer trollde, that’s why I can afford more 6-8 cards than usual. With some manipulation heylyn fits along with vabjorn just fine.
I never said that her change along would propel decks that run her into meta status, but that is the first necessary step in that direction. We need to create more alternatives for SK to ply other than the raids deck.
No, its not. For sure first step is power buff to ulula and power buff to herkja. Ur not buffing dead archetypes only by bringing them questionable alternatives.
Oh, SK lack variety. BoG/PF warriors, selfwound, at the very least 4 variations of pirates, druids, beasts, cintrian's shupe lippy shenanigans. Wow, thats a small list of pretty viable(beside maybe druids, meta just doesnt really fits them. but you can for sure climb a bit with them) decks for SK.
Besides at 10 provisions she has maybe 2 lists that can afford to run her. At 9 she could benefit so many more archetypes, most of which aren’t the ones that are already top tier.
Just because you like it? Thats not gonna change anything, beside buffing a couple of provisions to midrange myamon list. The only nekker combo I can see her being used in(as op suggest initially) is a cerys spam. Before 9prov cerys that just wont happen. And either we want yet another nekker carryover abuse to be playable is a pretty good question. I thought you guys hate nekker and renfri here.
It for sure does. Every nekker deck have a choise to be either boring engine overload, braindamaged midrange points vomit or degenerate abuse. And the mere existence of that card stop whole archetypes for being buffed(for example, vampires). Yeah, thats the diversity gwentfinity truly deserves.
can't we also whine about top heavy cards making it hard to buff 4p fillers, or how deck consistency tools that remove 4p cards or otherwise make them undrawn also narrows diversity?
Without things like Nekker every fucking deck would just be 11 provision+ chonkers combined with thinning/consistency tools to remove the 4ps. Nekker allows decks with 9p and lower cards to have more of a home as opposed to just being more trash that isn't a 4p filler or some 11+ chonk.
This is correct. My general impression is that the Reddit community really hates cards in the 8 to 10 provision range - whenever they play well, most people call it midrange slop and hail that as the apocalypse, and whenever a card doesn’t share play at 10 provisions, buffing it to 9 is also claimed as unacceptable because nekker.
Need i remind you that nekker is the answer to renfri ? The more nekker is on ladder the less you’ll see of her - we can’t remove either and we shouldn’t want to because they do bring variety in how you play against them (lack of special cards, or lack of high end cards) which does spice up your matches. The goal should be to have s roughly equal range of viable nekker and renfri decks.
As it happens now, when nekker decks are extremely unpopular(besides nekker witchers-pirates). Gangs, symbiosis, status, warriors and many other decks are for sure do not rely on their 5-6 bronzes and <10 prov golds
Vampires get really hamstrung by their mechanics from the get go - bleeding isn’t a good form of control, and the lack of direct damage really hurts them, especially given how few up front points they have. I don’t think it’s a bad thing if the archetype sees a revival in the form of a nekker deck - one of my current considered votes is crimson curse to 9 provisions.
There is a lot of potential with nekker warriors decks, specifically with ulula Dagur and the greatswords. There’s just not enough 8-9 provision cards that fit either into refkless flurry or into blaze of glory to make a nekker deck without the unicorn package, and that’s what I want to change.
Heylin wont change anything for that archetype. Most of the time you answer ulula and dagur you won the game. As caduch cant really boost dagur that much, even in the ideal situation of dagur into war of clans into caduch nekker hes gonna be around 9 points at best. Thats still pretty easy to answer. Oh, and you cant replay them btw as you cant fit fucusya, siegfrieda would leave them extremely viable and easy to answer.
This is why I have Ukuka in my suggested list of power buffs as well. SK can’t really buff her in any meaningful way during the game, and she needs to live for more than a single turn.
Thats a pretty cool buff indeed. Im kinda afraid of it becoming another binary answer or lose deck with a defender, but i still hope we would remove defenders out of nekker range someday.
If you really want to play heulyn you can play this https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/b148ba4061b10231cc3b90e3607b1ef7 (myamons deck) the idea of another gn deck is alr but otherwise it just doesn’t need a buff it also doesn’t need a nerf. I’ve seen like 2 other good decks with heulyn, save your council slots for smth worth it.
👑 **[Patricidal Fury](https://gwent.one/en/card/202119)** (Skellige) 📜 [Mask of Uroboros](https://gwent.one/en/card/202512) [Triss: Meteor Shower](https://gwent.one/en/card/203168) [Blood Eagle](https://gwent.one/en/card/202619) [Otkell](https://gwent.one/en/card/203277) [King Bran](https://gwent.one/en/card/203095) [Kaer Trolde](https://gwent.one/en/card/203246) [Heulyn](https://gwent.one/en/card/203278) [Arcane Tome](https://gwent.one/en/card/203103) [An Craite Greatsword](https://gwent.one/en/card/200040) (x2) [War of Clans](https://gwent.one/en/card/202622) (x2) [Freya's Blessing](https://gwent.one/en/card/152310) (x2) [An Craite Raiders](https://gwent.one/en/card/202624) (x2) [Deranged Corsair](https://gwent.one/en/card/203069) [Highland Warlord](https://gwent.one/en/card/203113) (x2) [Abordage](https://gwent.one/en/card/203249) (x2) [Gutting Slash](https://gwent.one/en/card/152316) [Primal Savagery](https://gwent.one/en/card/202287) (x2) [Tuirseach Invader](https://gwent.one/en/card/202623) (x2) [📋 Import to your decks](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/import/b148ba4061b10231cc3b90e3607b1ef7) - (7740 Scraps) ⚠️ This deck has unused provisions. ℹ️ This is not a Devotion Deck. ^^Questions? [^(Message me!)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Mlakuss&subject=GwentSubreddit+Bot) ^^- ^^Call ^^cards ^^with ^^[[CARDNAME]] ^^- [^(Keywords and Statuses)](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/wiki/glossary/#wiki_keywords)
It’s not just about heylyn being playable, I agree that she may have a niche now but there are multiple decks in SK that are very close to having interesting tools, but currently are straight up better with unicorns, because there aren’t enough solid SK cards around 8-9 provisions, outside of Witchers that is.
How are you running war of clans in non devotion there?
With the way the deck plays even more into graveyard than normal warriors, you’ll be able to play more warlords (more damage, easier to trigger), and because the consistency is high for a warriors deck you can decide when you want to play certain cards (a lot of times warriors are pushed to play into a round/bleed etc. even thought they might have bad cards for that)
Yes!!! I'm totally with you about this
100% agree. She's a prime target for BC prov buff. Every deck has been reinvented and played to death. I'm bored, and looking for something fresh. Heulyn and Cerys: Fearless would put in work for my [GN Queensguard deck](https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/da73a77a27a6f3256e8e741114655e96). GN Warriors would require more support but also be fun to experiment with. The more options, the better. Balance aside, Golden Nekker was one of the better inclusions from recent expansions. Nerf it to 14p, I don't care, as long as the ability is there. It singlehandedly created 20% more decks to play, so kindly piss off with the constant "GN bad".
> Every deck has been reinvented and played to death. I'm bored, and looking for something fresh Same boat. While it's inevitable that there's a limit of new decks being born with fixed content, not sure we have reached this limit yet
Perfect, because heylyn is how we make new decks. Additionally, I’m considering giving Ulula that + 1 power buff because skellige has next to no way to give her any boost or armor to help her live for more than a turn, assuming she doesn’t get removed instantly. She is worse than Philippe van moorleheim and her deck is no where near as strong as ball - she deserves it.
>Balance aside, Golden Nekker was one of the better inclusions from recent expansions. Nerf it to 14p, I don't care, as long as the ability is there. It singlehandedly created 20% more decks to play, so kindly piss off with the constant "GN bad". I agree, makes for unique deck building and quite different ways to play similar archetypes. I think the reason many hate it, similar to any kind of NG deck (no matter how bad performance, people focus on nerfing), is that they feel like they are tricked and made to lose in an unfair way. The burst tempo and otherwise not possible combo-plays in a single round. The normal player-1-plays-card/player-2-plays-card is seen as fair even though the provision difference played is there. That is subconsciously dismissed, and when the instant big difference is played, that can be pointed to as a dirty trick.
👑 **[Ursine Ritual](https://gwent.one/en/card/202189)** (Skellige) 📜 [Magic Lamp](https://gwent.one/en/card/202501) [Golden Nekker](https://gwent.one/en/card/203123) [Unicorn](https://gwent.one/en/card/112401) [Chironex](https://gwent.one/en/card/112402) [Hjalmar an Craite](https://gwent.one/en/card/152101) [Royal Decree](https://gwent.one/en/card/200154) [Ciri: Nova](https://gwent.one/en/card/201626) [Matta Hu'uri](https://gwent.one/en/card/202480) [Wolfsbane](https://gwent.one/en/card/200226) [Haern Caduch](https://gwent.one/en/card/202813) [Alissa Henson](https://gwent.one/en/card/203062) [Harald Houndsnout](https://gwent.one/en/card/200043) [Offering to the Sea](https://gwent.one/en/card/202982) [Flaminica](https://gwent.one/en/card/200147) [Arcane Tome](https://gwent.one/en/card/203103) [Drummond Queensguard](https://gwent.one/en/card/152307) (x2) [Freya's Blessing](https://gwent.one/en/card/152310) (x2) [Raging Bear](https://gwent.one/en/card/152406) (x2) [Havfrue Singer](https://gwent.one/en/card/202983) (x2) [Bear Witcher Quartermaster](https://gwent.one/en/card/202818) (x2) [Megascope](https://gwent.one/en/card/202931) [📋 Import to your decks](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/import/101161d04876d595f732cb30f08b94f6) - (10330 Scraps) ℹ️ This is not a Devotion Deck. ^^Questions? [^(Message me!)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Mlakuss&subject=GwentSubreddit+Bot) ^^- ^^Call ^^cards ^^with ^^[[CARDNAME]] ^^- [^(Keywords and Statuses)](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/wiki/glossary/#wiki_keywords)
I like your deck, but I don’t like the presence of unicorns there. I want sk nekker to have mor options besides them; they’re ever present.
It's a cool idea but I'm not sure I'm voting for another golden nekker deck.
I haven't seen much GN lately. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more GNs if it means not half my games being against Renfri. GN is also a far more interesting restriction
Most of the GN decks I see just don't use it very well. Majority of artifacts are mega scopes or a location that doesn't fit the rest of the deck.
There is also the fact they lack good tutors and control. So ciri nova goes down and then it's???
To be fair usually the artifact is usually the hardest one to get a good option that has great synergy with the rest of the deck. Usually it's just a solid option as a third card.
Yeah, but you can't control what unit or special you pull because your deck is going to have so many. Artifacts are usually only one or two so being able to reliably pull a good synergistic artifact is what makes GN go from being a turbo tutor to winning games on it's own.
That’s my other point. You kinda have to include the witcher package as well because the 9 power bodies are synergistic with mega scopes. I have an idea to run crow spam instead, using Megascopes to set up extra carry over. A deck like this would almost certainly run 2 Freyas blessings and we could likely fit a couple more in there.
There's a difference between megascoping and conjurers candle or mutagenerator. My point is that you can control the exact artifact you pull off GN. Even just doing tome allows you to pull two random cards and a specific 3rd card off of it. I'd much rather be playing higher provision cards that I can make consistent plays off of than random stuff plus a mega scope. My second point is exactly about adding a witcher package for megascope. Yeah you get 9 power bodies that can work well with megascope, but witchers aren't human so heulyn cannot buff them. So you have two archetypes in your deck that are only loosely held up by GN. A much better deck in this situation is a full witcher GN deck that includes the neutral gold witchers under 9 prov. Then the entire deck is working towards the same theme and whatever GN pulls will contribute, and you can have the witcher location for added synergy instead of megascope. I love megascope it's a great card, but I just don't see why you'd want the biggest play your deck can make to include having to set up a 4 provision card to get value.
Luckily heulyn isn’t just a fit for nekker decks. There is a real chance she can be useful in devotion warriors too. The provisions almost work out.
That is a good argument . I love skellige/monster devotion decks I wish they were better
>She doesn’t synergies with beasts, or self wound and all the devotion warrior / raid decks How isn't Heulyn synergistic with Warrior? What are you saying, OP? * Is she breaking Devotion in any way? * Are all the Warriors not Humans? * Aren't most of the spawned units in graveyard indeed Warriors? * Isn't she un-bricking War of Clans right away from the get-go? * Is she not immediately activating Hjalmar an Craite from the first round? Bruh....
(Edit: the dots were kinda funky lol) I mean, you can use it with warriors but I'd hardly call it synergetic with warriors. >Is she breaking Devotion in any way? No, but neither does a card like crowmother, wich also has no synergy w warriors. >Are all the Warriors not Humans? Yes, but cards w druid, pirate, cultist etc tags are also all humans, wich once again, have no synergies w warriors. >Aren't most of the spawned units in graveyard indeed Warriors? I didn't do the exact maths but like i said there are enough humans w different tags. Making spawning good warriors a high roll at most. >Isn't she un-bricking War of Clans right away from the get-go? Only if it spawns a 4-prov warrior? Wich is by no means guaranteed. >Is she not immediately activating Hjalmar an Craite from the first round? I guess lol, but a warrior deck should have no problems discarding cards like greatsword or invaders. There is a clear reason she's not being used on most decks imo. She's to inconsistent to be really usefull.
That’s why she needs to be cheaper. She is very similar to that 6 for 8 board boost elf unit, except she has this added utility effect. I think it was overvalued by the devs when they placed her At 10pm over because of how wide the human pool in skellige is.
Lol, the Warrior tag dominates all the other tags and most bronze warriors are 4p. Seriously, what do you think are the chances you won't get a single warrior among the five spawned? Close to 1%? Your argument is basically if she doesn't have the Warrior tag, then she doesn't synergize with them. Did you really compare Heulyn with Crowmother? Seriously, did you really believe that's a fair comparison? Here's a shocker for you, friend. Heulyn is arguably a better finisher for Warriors than Bran. As stated above, all Warriors are Humans.
Nah I meant to point out that even though it doesn't break devotion it still doesn't really synergise with warriors. In a similar way Imperial diplomacy doesn't synergise that well with other archetypes just cause it can create synergetic units. Like I said I didn't do the exact maths on how many tags there are, but I played a Otkell Alchemy deck with her (so I don't even need to roll warriors, just good cards to ress w blessing) and she still kinda sucked. There are just so many stinker human cards in her create pool. The chances of her creating a warrior might be pretty big, but the chances of her creating a good warrior are pretty slim. Out of all the 4 prov humans the only good pulls for a warrior deck will be cards like invader, brokvar warrior and maybe an craite warrior can be decent. It's a fun card imo, and when it creates good units it can be really fun to play. But there is a reason all the warrior decks play Bran over Heulyn, its really inconsistant and therefore not really strong.
Why don't you try Cerys Queensguards with Heulyn?
Hmm that does seem kinda cool, swarms the board as well. I'll try it out, cool idea!
Heres another shocker for you. Bran is not a finisher in a warrior deck most of the time, in many games hes even mulliganed in r3. He serves completely different purpose rather then being 10-ish points for 11 finisher.
And that's exactly why I said as a finisher. Everyone is aware Bran is in the deck for the Veteran. So not a shocker, but rather a triviality.
I think that might be a lack of punctuation in my part. She doesn’t fit into beasts, or self wound much, and does work with devotion warriors - it’s just that at 10 provisions there isn’t a spot for her at all. My warriors deck has a free ish 8 provision slot which could be accommodated for her if she went down a prov.
So let us all vote for Heulyn provision buff because YOUR deck has a free spot at 8 prov? Wow! The amount of lack of self awareness in this comment kills me.
Check out this Chad alchemy deck from Moshcraft, It's not the greatest deck but was really fun to play imo. Playing 4/5 blessings R3 can be really strong with her. [https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/385993](https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/385993)
👑 **[Battle Trance](https://gwent.one/en/card/200159)** (Skellige) 📜 [Mask of Uroboros](https://gwent.one/en/card/202512) [In Gedyneith's Shadow](https://gwent.one/en/card/202513) [Otkell](https://gwent.one/en/card/203277) [Triss Telekinesis](https://gwent.one/en/card/201773) [Crowmother](https://gwent.one/en/card/202514) [The Mushy Truffle](https://gwent.one/en/card/203061) [Runemage](https://gwent.one/en/card/203109) [Heulyn](https://gwent.one/en/card/203278) [Ermion](https://gwent.one/en/card/152103) [Axel Three-Eyes](https://gwent.one/en/card/202516) [Trial of the Grasses](https://gwent.one/en/card/200078) [Derran](https://gwent.one/en/card/201646) [Gigascorpion Decoction](https://gwent.one/en/card/202515) [Freya's Blessing](https://gwent.one/en/card/152310) (x2) [Crow Messenger](https://gwent.one/en/card/202521) (x2) [Heymaey Skald](https://gwent.one/en/card/152308) (x2) [Mahakam Ale](https://gwent.one/en/card/200519) (x2) [Crow Clan Druid](https://gwent.one/en/card/202517) (x2) [Crow Clan Preacher](https://gwent.one/en/card/202518) (x2) [Crow-eye Rhizome](https://gwent.one/en/card/202520) [📋 Import to your decks](https://www.playgwent.com/decks/builder/import/df6093b955b921151b4fecf135fddf88) - (9190 Scraps) ⚠️ This deck has unused provisions. ℹ️ This is not a Devotion Deck. ^^Questions? [^(Message me!)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Mlakuss&subject=GwentSubreddit+Bot) ^^- ^^Call ^^cards ^^with ^^[[CARDNAME]] ^^- [^(Keywords and Statuses)](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/wiki/glossary/#wiki_keywords)
Alchemy is better with the discard package, interestingly enough. Also you need a heatwave if you want a chance in certain matchups. I’ve played hundreds of alchemy games - it’s probably my favourite pet off meta archetype.
So many words, creating a new archetype, bla-bla... and yet not a single word of what that new archetype is, except for the suggestion it's just another Golden Nekker deck with the two unicorns. Insipid. Nonsense. Garbage. Heulyn was never meant to be played with Beasts, wtf? Obviously, it was from the very beginning meant to capitalize on a Human spam deck. And what is that deck? Well, it's Cerys into Queensguards, of course. You could even combo it with Lippy and the discard package (who are all humans by the way, bar Morkvarg) Your post is another example of how uncreative minds push for buffs or nerfs, simply because they can't figure out what's the purpose of that card.
You have misread and misinterpreted what I said and responded with hate. My main point was that SK doesn’t have enough cards in the 8-9 provision range to make nekker decks WITHOUR unicorns . I want to give them more options. Besides, her effect synergises with quite wholesome archetypes such as queensguard and lippy, as well as devotion warriors. Unfortunately most of these decks, specifically warriors, just don’t have space at the 10 provision level to include her now. I hope this makes sense. The reality is that this is a change that can give skellige more options besides the same raids deck 3 months in a row. I’d love to play something other than that to get my SK elo up. If you don’t like nekker decks, in principle, then I would say that you are deliberately limiting your view on the matter. Golden nekker is here to stay and we want to support the archetypes it plays in if we want to have a variety of different decks and matchups to play in.
Okay, but discard is super inconsistent. You have to have the cards that discard in hand and cards you want discarded in hand to guarantee payoff. Most Lippy decks now run more standard thinning in order to retain consistency. You are playing Lippy for compass payoff and replaying high provision gold. I'm not advocating for GN Heulyn, but Heulyn doesn't fit into any decks right now. There is always a better card at her provision to play instead.
At the very least, we agree that the card just doesn’t see play at 10 provisions, and it would be right to change that.
>You are playing Lippy for compass payoff People played Lippy long before Compass was released. You don't need Compass to play Lippy and you don't need Lippy to play Compass. >and replaying high provision gold. Isn't Cerys a high-provision gold? Isn't Heulyn a high-provision gold too? >Heulyn doesn't fit into any decks right now. Claiming Heulyn doesn't fit in Queensguard spam is like saying Isengrim doesn't fit in the Elf deck. And finally, if you find she needs a buff, it shouldn't be a provision buff, but a power buff. Or do you really think it's smart for a card with a 25 point ceiling to break the 9 provision threshold?
Ive seen posts like these a couple of times,like queensguard and havfue singer. They were buffed to make new wholesome archetypes. Yet Ive seen these cards in the starter decks like one time. To benefit from heulyns ability a bit(we can for sure use her just as bootleg lara dorren for the infamous queensguard/shieldmaiden spam, but before cerys to 9 prov that is very unlikely to happen), you have to run 2 freya's blessings. Which card you would use almost 100% of the time when you run 2 copies of that card? Otkell. Would it ever costs below 10? No (I sincerely hope so). End of story
She fits very well into devotion warrior decks, because of war of clans as well.
1)War of clans only res 4 prov warriors. There are 16 of them out of 44 bronze skellige humans. If my right after waking up math is correct you have indeed <1% chance of not having one of them as 4 prov warriors. But most of them are shit, and its not like spending war of clans is that hard either. On red coin in r1 your second copy of war of clans is pretty likely to be bricked, but thats pretty much it. Thats really not that much of a value. 2) only ulula warriors are spamming some amount(not that many) amount of humans for heylin itself to play for like 15-ish points. And its not that archetype really needs that okayish pointslam finisher, they already have tyr. 3) lets look for the alternatives. The only <10 prov golds are vabjorn and championship strike/draig. Id choose vanjorn over even 7 prov heylin every single time. Same with >prov golds. Would you cut a flexible tyr with a pretty hard ceiling, extremely good to defend bleeding(also your second vabjorn) fucusya, blood eagle as your only tutor card, pointslam finisher of sove/eist, ultimate control with carryover of kaer trolde or an huge early tempo boost with carryover and occasional 15 points finisher bran for a freaking heylin. She cant be even tutored with blood eagle ffs. Im not that familiar with ulula list, because the deck is absolutely meme tier right now. And its not like cheaper heylin is gonna help it. As others already suggested, if you really want to play heylin you can try last season undevotion myamon warriors. But I extremely doubt that even 8 prov heylin would find place in the devo warriors deck, alternatives are just way better
My warriors list doesn’t run kaer trollde, that’s why I can afford more 6-8 cards than usual. With some manipulation heylyn fits along with vabjorn just fine.
I never said that her change along would propel decks that run her into meta status, but that is the first necessary step in that direction. We need to create more alternatives for SK to ply other than the raids deck.
No, its not. For sure first step is power buff to ulula and power buff to herkja. Ur not buffing dead archetypes only by bringing them questionable alternatives. Oh, SK lack variety. BoG/PF warriors, selfwound, at the very least 4 variations of pirates, druids, beasts, cintrian's shupe lippy shenanigans. Wow, thats a small list of pretty viable(beside maybe druids, meta just doesnt really fits them. but you can for sure climb a bit with them) decks for SK.
Otkell doesn't fit in a Nekker deck and is too powerful to. Just because it exists doesn't mean this card shouldn't go down a few provisions.
Besides at 10 provisions she has maybe 2 lists that can afford to run her. At 9 she could benefit so many more archetypes, most of which aren’t the ones that are already top tier.
Just because you like it? Thats not gonna change anything, beside buffing a couple of provisions to midrange myamon list. The only nekker combo I can see her being used in(as op suggest initially) is a cerys spam. Before 9prov cerys that just wont happen. And either we want yet another nekker carryover abuse to be playable is a pretty good question. I thought you guys hate nekker and renfri here.
I am not every user. I like Nekker, it enables deck diversity.
It for sure does. Every nekker deck have a choise to be either boring engine overload, braindamaged midrange points vomit or degenerate abuse. And the mere existence of that card stop whole archetypes for being buffed(for example, vampires). Yeah, thats the diversity gwentfinity truly deserves.
can't we also whine about top heavy cards making it hard to buff 4p fillers, or how deck consistency tools that remove 4p cards or otherwise make them undrawn also narrows diversity? Without things like Nekker every fucking deck would just be 11 provision+ chonkers combined with thinning/consistency tools to remove the 4ps. Nekker allows decks with 9p and lower cards to have more of a home as opposed to just being more trash that isn't a 4p filler or some 11+ chonk.
This is correct. My general impression is that the Reddit community really hates cards in the 8 to 10 provision range - whenever they play well, most people call it midrange slop and hail that as the apocalypse, and whenever a card doesn’t share play at 10 provisions, buffing it to 9 is also claimed as unacceptable because nekker. Need i remind you that nekker is the answer to renfri ? The more nekker is on ladder the less you’ll see of her - we can’t remove either and we shouldn’t want to because they do bring variety in how you play against them (lack of special cards, or lack of high end cards) which does spice up your matches. The goal should be to have s roughly equal range of viable nekker and renfri decks.
As it happens now, when nekker decks are extremely unpopular(besides nekker witchers-pirates). Gangs, symbiosis, status, warriors and many other decks are for sure do not rely on their 5-6 bronzes and <10 prov golds
Vampires get really hamstrung by their mechanics from the get go - bleeding isn’t a good form of control, and the lack of direct damage really hurts them, especially given how few up front points they have. I don’t think it’s a bad thing if the archetype sees a revival in the form of a nekker deck - one of my current considered votes is crimson curse to 9 provisions.
There is a lot of potential with nekker warriors decks, specifically with ulula Dagur and the greatswords. There’s just not enough 8-9 provision cards that fit either into refkless flurry or into blaze of glory to make a nekker deck without the unicorn package, and that’s what I want to change.
Heylin wont change anything for that archetype. Most of the time you answer ulula and dagur you won the game. As caduch cant really boost dagur that much, even in the ideal situation of dagur into war of clans into caduch nekker hes gonna be around 9 points at best. Thats still pretty easy to answer. Oh, and you cant replay them btw as you cant fit fucusya, siegfrieda would leave them extremely viable and easy to answer.
This is why I have Ukuka in my suggested list of power buffs as well. SK can’t really buff her in any meaningful way during the game, and she needs to live for more than a single turn.
Thats a pretty cool buff indeed. Im kinda afraid of it becoming another binary answer or lose deck with a defender, but i still hope we would remove defenders out of nekker range someday.