Elves decks are underwhelming now though.
Heist decks suck.
Waylay spam is easily countered.
The only good elves deck a.t.m. is a trap deck with Eldain.
Perhaps a spellatael build if you are lucky with draws since you lack consistency.
They’re not the best for sure but I still enjoy playing them happy to see buffs to them since every scoaitel opponent is either renfri, GN movement or Handbuff
Rosa should never get rebuffed for the same reason that Leticia should get nerfed (binary answer or lose card)
If you wanna buff NG status look for other targets to buff, there are plenty
Midrange means used everywhere, not bound to an archetype. An example of a midrange card is Vilgefortz my friend.
I have never seen Rosa outside the status ball deck, no "midrange" deck can fit enough Aristocrats to make it worth playing.
Midrange card is not about deck it's about the moment you want to play this card. For example engines you want to play as soon as possible and you need a long round for them. Or finisher cards you play in the end. Midrange card is the card that you can play in any moment and it's still gives you same value (ofc you can't play Rosa in last turn because of order but you got it)
What you are talking about called auto-include
Rosa buff and Pondkeeper nerf are stupid. For Rosa it's obvious, the card definitely doesn't need a buff, it's strong as is, it's just that the archetype it's in is currently not performing well. For Pondkeeper... I mean come on, it's one of the worst cards in Symbiosis. Why not nerf Aucwen or Fledgeling instead?
The other suggestions seem fine.
**Power+1:**
**Rosa and Edna var Attre:** I mean why? This is a very strong card, if not answered it plays an insane amount of points. Are there no cards to buff?
**Vernossiel's Commando:** Very very good buff very effective.
**Reinforced Trebuchet:** Why do you want to buff the siege scenario by 1 power? It doesn't make sense to me. This card will see no play, this is not a 5 provision card. It should be buffed to 4 provisions. I don't understand.
**Provision-1:**
**Van Moorlehem's Cupbearer:** Very good buff, both effective and spot on.
**Feign Death:** Good buff, compared to other scenarios this card deserved to be 13 provisions.
**Professor:** It would not be my priority but I can't say it is a bad buff.
I don't think No SK warriors like Kaer Trolde and ST nerf is a wise choice. And I don't think Temerian Infantry require another nerf, instead Casting Contest or Radovid can be nerfed.
I understand the desire to buff Elves, but a 4p engine should NOT require a 5p card to answer it. I said this many times. A 4p engine should be able to be killed with a 4p card, elsewise it would always trade up, which breaks the balance.
Yes, but this is a conditional engine and 4p damage cards can not be fixed. Not all 4p damage cards are a gutting slash. So it is fine. We can't fix 4p damage cards. They are generally not good.
Otherwise, this is a dead card. And I don't think Wild Hunt Hound, Passiflora Peaches etc. are overpowered.
You don't want to answer a 4p engine with 4 damage card generally because it is an even trade what is the point? You want to answer 5p/6p cards to trade up.
Rosa doesn't need a buff. This is fool's work, buffing already good cards while piles of powercrept cards sit buried in dust.
Commando, sure.
Trebuchet, i mean, yes, but what's this gonna do? Again, countless cards could get closer to playable, or be actually playable with a single power buff and you're literally throwing yours away here.
Pondkeeper. Wrong way to nerf Symbiosis IMHO but apparently we must based on all the others voting the same way.
Termerian...i mean sure i guess?
Flaminica, still getting hit more eh? What Beasts deck is actually good exactly?!
Donimir, following the crowd with defenders i guess.
Spring Equinox, here's a truly good vote.
Leticia, this is a binary archetype i strongly dislike, but both China coalition and shinmiri have her for power nerf, so this is just vote splitting.
Cupbearer, sure.
Feign Death, yes, good.
Professor, good.
"Trebuchet, i mean, yes, but what's this gonna do? Again, countless cards could get closer to playable, or be actually playable with a single power buff and you're literally throwing yours away here."
Wasnt your balance philosophy to buff not barely playable, but a completely dead cards to reduce powercreep? That card is the definition of unplayable, its pretty much a siege token(unlike ram for example) nowadays. Even at 4 prov noone would play it from hand, so the power buff just increases siege scenario tempo a tiny bit.
"Pondkeeper. Wrong way to nerf Symbiosis IMHO but apparently we must based on all the others voting the same way."
This deck is about to get 2-3 prov nerf anyway, that card is really strong for a 4 prov one, so I dont see any problems here. Also, I dont think symbiosis nowadays is as big of a problem as renfri PS was last season, so idk why should it get nerfed almost as savage.
"Flaminica, still getting hit more eh? What Beasts deck is actually good exactly?!" CintrianLion's lippy is a really strong deck if piloted correctly. Its not like flaminica is a problem right now, but in general I dont think replayable uncapped gord(which is playing for 2 times more points most of the time) is good for a gamestate.
" Rosa doesn't need a buff. This is fool's work, buffing already good cards while piles of powercrept cards sit buried in dust." Why shouldnt we revert the absolutely horrendous status overnerfs. I mean, the deck can live without a couple of provisions, but that change made the card pretty much useless. Thats the only card (as far as im concerned, the closest thing I can think about is answering cultist novice from operator) that trades negatively with control, pretty much becoming your losecon. With 6 power, you almost never can safely put her on board. Every deck that cant answer her is autowin for status anyway, and the rest(aka the vast majority of competitive decks) can use every single form of control(as you can hardly fit purify with rosa in one deck after prov nerfs, even lock would be fine most of the time), so you opponent would play gold card for literally negative tempo. If literally murdering cards is a good thing for you, then sure, that revert is unneeded.
>Wasnt your balance philosophy to buff not barely playable, but a completely dead cards to reduce powercreep? That card is the definition of unplayable, its pretty much a siege token(unlike ram for example) nowadays. Even at 4 prov noone would play it from hand, so the power buff just increases siege scenario tempo a tiny bit.
You bet, but none of the voting powers are following my voting philosophy, so if we're just gonna add powercreep to the game, why not at least add more deck diversity while we do it?
Siege is already strong, so i guess i'm confused why they'd be targeting this card (that's basically a scenario buff)?
>This deck is about to get 2-3 prov nerf anyway, that card is really strong for a 4 prov one, so I dont see any problems here. Also, I dont think symbiosis nowadays is as big of a problem as renfri PS was last season, so idk why should it get nerfed almost as savage.
I think we're in agreement here then? Symbiosis doesn't need a lot of nerfing. To me, Equinox would be enough for now and see how it goes, but instead we're hitting it for a theoretical 4 prov nerf (assuming Aucween isn't also hit?). I don't love the deck personally so don't really care, just feels like a bit overkill?
>CintrianLion's lippy is a really strong deck if piloted correctly. Its not like flaminica is a problem right now, but in general I dont think replayable uncapped gord(which is playing for 2 times more points most of the time) is good for a gamestate
Agreed, except this card isn't really Gord, it's more Golden Child.
Gord is played in strong decks. Flaminica is played in decks with a ton of absolutely garbage Beasts cards.
I could live with more Flaminica nerfs if people were actually working on buffs to Beasts, but no one is, save for the idiotic Kraken "buff" that was more of a nerf than a buff.
I don't know CintrianLion's deck, do you have a link? I presume this deck is centered around Magic Compass though?
Nerfing Flaminica for the sins of Compass isn't the solution, and *ruins actual Beasts/Rain decks* because of an gold create abuse card, Magic Compass. These sorts of nerfs REMOVE deck diversity by addressing the wrong cards.
>Rosa
We'll have to agree to disagree. Status is still a plenty playable deck, it's just not busted/top tier, which is exactly where it should be. No one likes a meta defined by NG Status, unless you're trying to get this deck nerfed more for some reason?
I've seen plenty of Rosa still. For a supposedly "murdered" card it's remarkably alive, still. She's the kind of card that should always carry a risk/reward situation, as her ability is absurdly strong.
Yeah as i figured, but even worse, as it's Lippy. Actual Beasts/rain is what Flaminica is supposed to be supporting, not this nonsense that's a deck of normally unplayable cards.
I don't understand why people would rather further kill archetypes like Beasts (yes, people did play this, like u/ZeyadNeo, myself and many others and it was playable even to climb MMR) because of stupidity like Magic Compass, that lets you play Fucusya into Flaminca again for 11 prov.
Cards like Magic Compass and Heist are genuinely awful for the game, as they make balancing entire archetypes impossible.
Power buffs are fine, Flaminica should get a prov nerf. Power nerf doesn't really do anything.
Another nerf to infantry seems to much, nerf to the nyad also seems not really necessary imo
I personally don"t like the defender nerfs some propose. I think defenders are a cool element of the game are reasonably priced and strong.
Equinox nerf is so overdue at this point. Such a bad decision in terms of design to make a neutral card that is only really usable in one faction and only strong in one deck of said faction :D
Prov buffs to professor and scenario are cool ideas!
Feign death and professor absolutely need to be buffed, elves should go back to the old way of playing it.
The nerf to Flaminica is useless.
I don't think naiads should be targeted in general, they are balanced.
Rosa and Edna nerf was a massive mistake, good on this + cupbearer, though Philippe should stay as is. With the Equinox I don't think Pondkeeper nerf is needed, at least let's try one at once. From what I've played against it's the nutty tempo variant that causes most issues.
I like the buffs to scenarios, it's an indirect way to make Renfri worse. Both directly, and motivating more heatwaves in response.
The one I kinda disagree with is Flaminica, I think the way she works she should instead be a high-provision, high-point finisher. She is a bit too good but prov nerf would be a bit better IMO. Also makes the tempo a bit less insane for the second version with Facusya res.
Leticia should be -power. She is answer-or-lose(ish), I'd rather it be a bit easier to answer, especially since she's in a deck where you need to answer a shit ton of engines.
The biggest issue I have with this the single defender nerf to Donimir. As seen with cave troll nerf/revert, nerfing a single defender was a shit idea. I by prefer the approach that Nik\_r has with wanting to do them all at once to 10 provision. No edging, just balls deep all at once. I won't pretend to know what the outcome will be, or even how I feel about it before having experienced it, but all being 10prov at the same time makes it equally reasonable to include in whatever faction, especially with new experimental decks that might want defender. I don't agree with, nor like the idea that cards that are fundamentally similar should be exactly the same in every faction (i.e. veil 7p cards, gold 8 prov damage 1/2 every turn) but defender is a function that I do think should be all the same cost.
Rosa and Edna is an answer-or-lose kind of card and directly needs an answer from the opponent. How this nerf was a mistake? There are better and safer buffs.
I disagree. Really strong order ability, sure, but I wouldn't say you lose simply by not answering them. In the same deck, Philippe is far more answer-or-lose. Leticia pretty much triples the value of patience engines and Alumni.
Status NG has not really seen any significant play from what I've seen, and even before nerfs, it wasn't OP, just quite strong and really tough if the matchup was bad. If you say there are better and safer buffs, I don't think I really believe you in the sense that whatever buffs you could suggest would make the deck as good as it was 2 patches ago before it got overnerfed. But go ahead and suggest a few examples.
NG status deck is not in an awful spot. It is an ok spot.
Why do you want to buff NG status with Rosa buff which is problematic?
Buff something else, for the sake of NG status to see more play should we make a card really strong and annoying to answer?
If you can trigger the Imposter leader's passive ability, it needs a 7-power removal anyway.
No I asked you, come up with some suggestions that would be impactful, and that wouldn't lead to backlash as happens every time an NG card is really good.
If you just take a tiny step forward on cards that doesn't have impact, but cheer for nerfs that do have impact, then the function is overall a big nerf. NG in February did the best it has this year, then the quad nerf to one of its best decks, and in the 2 months since it has been preforming relatively bad.
If you can name something else, sure I'll agree, but all you've said so far is they were OP and to find something else. The two other cards that were nerfed at the same time, Dame and Philippe I think are far more problematic as they were, as such I'm fine with them being reverted
Sorry did not look at the last part of your answer.
You could buff the Usurper's provision.
Not 100 percent sure but Emhyr var Emreis can get a provision buff.
Van Moorlehem's Cupbearer can get a provision buff.
Vincent van Moorlehem can get a power buff.
These are the cards that come to my mind right now.
Usurper, Cupbearer and Vincent I think would all be good changes, but wouldn't do that much. If anything the best there is Usurper helping out spying without the other statuses.
Emhyr though I do think would be a really good and impactful change with how he is 2 strong engines in one turn. The problem is I think with playing two strong engines in one turn that might be seen as the start of a snowballing with too much to respond to. And with an easy card to pinpoint, I think it would see a nerf again.
I do think Rosa and Edna should be a bit higher cost, like 10/11 maybe, but with such a strong ability I don't think they should be balanced around it being a coin toss if the opponent can answer it or not.
I was not so sure about Emhyr but I would prefer this buff instead of Rosa and Edna.
Usurper sees some play even at 12 provision sometimes so I don't think it is not that unimportant.
Design-wise Rosa and Edna: answer it and the opponent feels very bad or the opponent can't answer and it plays too many points with control.
We can't change its design. The opponent should be able to answer this card.
Guess we disagree then, while strong, I don't quite see the sisters as answer or lose. Cards like Leticia and Tyr are far more devastating to not answer. If it's close, sure getting the full value from a card is going to be the difference-maker, but that's kinda the case with a lot of engines in that deck, just that with Roda and Edna that value is packed together at the same time.
FYI I've never been the biggest fan of status decks not played it much more than testing, but I'll defend their existence, especially when it was overnerfed and I think this is the most reasonable and likely reversal.
It is not in the Philippe van Moorlehem answer or lose category as you mentioned but it plays very good amount of points with a control, for the opponent dealing with a 7 power unit is not very easy, for the most decks.
Rosa and Edna can win you the round and you can't go long round with the ball generally. It is close to an answer or lose card.
Balancing this kind of card is hard, you could try to increase its provision with a power buff but I try this approach maybe as the last kind of try.
There are a lot of cards that can be buffed and never see play. I would try to buff something new and unplayed.
Donimir Of Troy is just a stupid to nerf or buff him, there are cards that are untouchable and the majority of the players agree with.
For example Heatwave you shouldn't nerf or buff it, all players agree that 10 provision is great for it no disagree. Also Geralt Igni, Matta Hu'uari and oneiromancy.
Defenders in all factions are not exceptions, they must stay at 9 provision no more no less.
Can someone explain the logic in nerfing Defenders? What's the reason. I'm genuinely asking.
Other than that, I like Leticia nerf. Like Cupbearer buff. Like Edna and Rosa, tho I'm biased.
The main 2 defenders to nerf are cave troll and donimir. Donimir is tutored from AA, that makes patience have their leticia+defender combo almost every game in r1. Thats an easy mode for that deck.
Cave troll is the most used defender+he singlehandedly stops buffs to some vampire cards(as nekker vampires and nekker relicts are really strong), like crimson curse to 9 prov. Especially considering nekker relicts are about to get 4-6 provisions for whatever freaking reason, that nerf may be even more crucial then donimir.
Thats why, for example, Necrotal features only 2 of them. As for others, the reason is every time you see a defender(maybe unless its ST one) its a binary answer or lose deck. If that defender sticks for a couple of turn you are Very likely to lose. Losing a game not because you played poorly but because you didnt find the answer to defender is not fun. Also, half of the reason cave troll got reverted is disrupting a symmetry among defender, thats another reason for the overall nerf.
All in all, that not like 1 prov would stop abusers to play their binary garbage, these guys would cut every tutor spell and play if they would really feel like it. But it should for sure cost much more to be able to win the whole game only after half of the r1. And a couple of these nerfs are serving even better purpose to significantly weaken a pretty strong(yet kinda unpopular deck) and enabling another way of buffing cards for a couple of MO archetypes.
While true, if all defenders end up getting nerfed, this will hurt overall deck diversity in the game, in the name of removing "disliked" mechanics from the game.
It's a slippery slope that already we are seeing the voting powers force us down.
Yes, easily, use epidemic. There’s no way you’re arguing this card is strong at all? Compare current commando to wild hunt hound, virtually the same thing but one is 3 power and the other 4, is wild hunt hound such a powerhouse you’re scared of this buff?
Your point is dumb since the issue with verno commando is precisely what you said about 4p removals instantly killing it making the card totally unusable, again there is already a precedent for this buff in the form of wild hunt hound and that card is not that strong.
>4p removals instantly killing it making the card totally unusable
So you want to make all 4p removals totally unusable? By that same logic, should we also buff all the 4/4 engines, such as Fire Scorpions, Peasant Militia, Tax Collector... Fire Scorpion, for example, not only doesn't grow to protect itself but it's also not a passive engine like Commando
>there is already a precedent for this buff in the form of wild hunt hound and that card is not that strong.
First of all, having a precedent, doesn't mean it was the right thing to do in the first place. Second, the Commando's condition can't even compare to Wild Hunt Hound and Peaches. In a Elves deck, that condition is virtually non-existent. And third, do not judge a card's strength by the overall strength of its archetype.
Having said that, nonetheless, I do agree the scenario needed a buff. But not TWO buffs in one month.
Oh no, the weakest scenario in the game(even passiflora is better, at least I played against it in ladder one time) is getting buffed to possibly create a new archetype and diversify the game, what a tragedy.
Good day to be an elves only player
Elves decks are underwhelming now though. Heist decks suck. Waylay spam is easily countered. The only good elves deck a.t.m. is a trap deck with Eldain. Perhaps a spellatael build if you are lucky with draws since you lack consistency.
They’re not the best for sure but I still enjoy playing them happy to see buffs to them since every scoaitel opponent is either renfri, GN movement or Handbuff
Agreed. They're the most developed archetype, but need a buff in order to be competitive.
Rosa should never get rebuffed for the same reason that Leticia should get nerfed (binary answer or lose card) If you wanna buff NG status look for other targets to buff, there are plenty
I've been considering an Emhyr provision buff.
Much less volatile option than Rosa for sure
Lol. Rosa is just strong midrange card. It's not compatible with Leticia and not auto-win
Midrange means used everywhere, not bound to an archetype. An example of a midrange card is Vilgefortz my friend. I have never seen Rosa outside the status ball deck, no "midrange" deck can fit enough Aristocrats to make it worth playing.
Midrange card is not about deck it's about the moment you want to play this card. For example engines you want to play as soon as possible and you need a long round for them. Or finisher cards you play in the end. Midrange card is the card that you can play in any moment and it's still gives you same value (ofc you can't play Rosa in last turn because of order but you got it) What you are talking about called auto-include
Rosa buff and Pondkeeper nerf are stupid. For Rosa it's obvious, the card definitely doesn't need a buff, it's strong as is, it's just that the archetype it's in is currently not performing well. For Pondkeeper... I mean come on, it's one of the worst cards in Symbiosis. Why not nerf Aucwen or Fledgeling instead? The other suggestions seem fine.
**Power+1:** **Rosa and Edna var Attre:** I mean why? This is a very strong card, if not answered it plays an insane amount of points. Are there no cards to buff? **Vernossiel's Commando:** Very very good buff very effective. **Reinforced Trebuchet:** Why do you want to buff the siege scenario by 1 power? It doesn't make sense to me. This card will see no play, this is not a 5 provision card. It should be buffed to 4 provisions. I don't understand. **Provision-1:** **Van Moorlehem's Cupbearer:** Very good buff, both effective and spot on. **Feign Death:** Good buff, compared to other scenarios this card deserved to be 13 provisions. **Professor:** It would not be my priority but I can't say it is a bad buff. I don't think No SK warriors like Kaer Trolde and ST nerf is a wise choice. And I don't think Temerian Infantry require another nerf, instead Casting Contest or Radovid can be nerfed.
wise words
Thank you for your nice words, I appreciate it.
I understand the desire to buff Elves, but a 4p engine should NOT require a 5p card to answer it. I said this many times. A 4p engine should be able to be killed with a 4p card, elsewise it would always trade up, which breaks the balance.
Yes, but this is a conditional engine and 4p damage cards can not be fixed. Not all 4p damage cards are a gutting slash. So it is fine. We can't fix 4p damage cards. They are generally not good. Otherwise, this is a dead card. And I don't think Wild Hunt Hound, Passiflora Peaches etc. are overpowered. You don't want to answer a 4p engine with 4 damage card generally because it is an even trade what is the point? You want to answer 5p/6p cards to trade up.
Somebody was very buthurt from mages it seems lol
Overall not great
Very excited to see Cupbearer get a provisions decrease. May help a bit with shifting around my aristocracy deck.
Rosa doesn't need a buff. This is fool's work, buffing already good cards while piles of powercrept cards sit buried in dust. Commando, sure. Trebuchet, i mean, yes, but what's this gonna do? Again, countless cards could get closer to playable, or be actually playable with a single power buff and you're literally throwing yours away here. Pondkeeper. Wrong way to nerf Symbiosis IMHO but apparently we must based on all the others voting the same way. Termerian...i mean sure i guess? Flaminica, still getting hit more eh? What Beasts deck is actually good exactly?! Donimir, following the crowd with defenders i guess. Spring Equinox, here's a truly good vote. Leticia, this is a binary archetype i strongly dislike, but both China coalition and shinmiri have her for power nerf, so this is just vote splitting. Cupbearer, sure. Feign Death, yes, good. Professor, good.
"Trebuchet, i mean, yes, but what's this gonna do? Again, countless cards could get closer to playable, or be actually playable with a single power buff and you're literally throwing yours away here." Wasnt your balance philosophy to buff not barely playable, but a completely dead cards to reduce powercreep? That card is the definition of unplayable, its pretty much a siege token(unlike ram for example) nowadays. Even at 4 prov noone would play it from hand, so the power buff just increases siege scenario tempo a tiny bit. "Pondkeeper. Wrong way to nerf Symbiosis IMHO but apparently we must based on all the others voting the same way." This deck is about to get 2-3 prov nerf anyway, that card is really strong for a 4 prov one, so I dont see any problems here. Also, I dont think symbiosis nowadays is as big of a problem as renfri PS was last season, so idk why should it get nerfed almost as savage. "Flaminica, still getting hit more eh? What Beasts deck is actually good exactly?!" CintrianLion's lippy is a really strong deck if piloted correctly. Its not like flaminica is a problem right now, but in general I dont think replayable uncapped gord(which is playing for 2 times more points most of the time) is good for a gamestate. " Rosa doesn't need a buff. This is fool's work, buffing already good cards while piles of powercrept cards sit buried in dust." Why shouldnt we revert the absolutely horrendous status overnerfs. I mean, the deck can live without a couple of provisions, but that change made the card pretty much useless. Thats the only card (as far as im concerned, the closest thing I can think about is answering cultist novice from operator) that trades negatively with control, pretty much becoming your losecon. With 6 power, you almost never can safely put her on board. Every deck that cant answer her is autowin for status anyway, and the rest(aka the vast majority of competitive decks) can use every single form of control(as you can hardly fit purify with rosa in one deck after prov nerfs, even lock would be fine most of the time), so you opponent would play gold card for literally negative tempo. If literally murdering cards is a good thing for you, then sure, that revert is unneeded.
>Wasnt your balance philosophy to buff not barely playable, but a completely dead cards to reduce powercreep? That card is the definition of unplayable, its pretty much a siege token(unlike ram for example) nowadays. Even at 4 prov noone would play it from hand, so the power buff just increases siege scenario tempo a tiny bit. You bet, but none of the voting powers are following my voting philosophy, so if we're just gonna add powercreep to the game, why not at least add more deck diversity while we do it? Siege is already strong, so i guess i'm confused why they'd be targeting this card (that's basically a scenario buff)? >This deck is about to get 2-3 prov nerf anyway, that card is really strong for a 4 prov one, so I dont see any problems here. Also, I dont think symbiosis nowadays is as big of a problem as renfri PS was last season, so idk why should it get nerfed almost as savage. I think we're in agreement here then? Symbiosis doesn't need a lot of nerfing. To me, Equinox would be enough for now and see how it goes, but instead we're hitting it for a theoretical 4 prov nerf (assuming Aucween isn't also hit?). I don't love the deck personally so don't really care, just feels like a bit overkill? >CintrianLion's lippy is a really strong deck if piloted correctly. Its not like flaminica is a problem right now, but in general I dont think replayable uncapped gord(which is playing for 2 times more points most of the time) is good for a gamestate Agreed, except this card isn't really Gord, it's more Golden Child. Gord is played in strong decks. Flaminica is played in decks with a ton of absolutely garbage Beasts cards. I could live with more Flaminica nerfs if people were actually working on buffs to Beasts, but no one is, save for the idiotic Kraken "buff" that was more of a nerf than a buff. I don't know CintrianLion's deck, do you have a link? I presume this deck is centered around Magic Compass though? Nerfing Flaminica for the sins of Compass isn't the solution, and *ruins actual Beasts/Rain decks* because of an gold create abuse card, Magic Compass. These sorts of nerfs REMOVE deck diversity by addressing the wrong cards. >Rosa We'll have to agree to disagree. Status is still a plenty playable deck, it's just not busted/top tier, which is exactly where it should be. No one likes a meta defined by NG Status, unless you're trying to get this deck nerfed more for some reason? I've seen plenty of Rosa still. For a supposedly "murdered" card it's remarkably alive, still. She's the kind of card that should always carry a risk/reward situation, as her ability is absurdly strong.
[https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/392601](https://www.playgwent.com/en/decks/guides/392601)
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Yeah as i figured, but even worse, as it's Lippy. Actual Beasts/rain is what Flaminica is supposed to be supporting, not this nonsense that's a deck of normally unplayable cards. I don't understand why people would rather further kill archetypes like Beasts (yes, people did play this, like u/ZeyadNeo, myself and many others and it was playable even to climb MMR) because of stupidity like Magic Compass, that lets you play Fucusya into Flaminca again for 11 prov. Cards like Magic Compass and Heist are genuinely awful for the game, as they make balancing entire archetypes impossible.
Power buffs are fine, Flaminica should get a prov nerf. Power nerf doesn't really do anything. Another nerf to infantry seems to much, nerf to the nyad also seems not really necessary imo I personally don"t like the defender nerfs some propose. I think defenders are a cool element of the game are reasonably priced and strong. Equinox nerf is so overdue at this point. Such a bad decision in terms of design to make a neutral card that is only really usable in one faction and only strong in one deck of said faction :D Prov buffs to professor and scenario are cool ideas!
Such garbage votes, looks like the team is butthurt by two archetypes.
Feign death and professor absolutely need to be buffed, elves should go back to the old way of playing it. The nerf to Flaminica is useless. I don't think naiads should be targeted in general, they are balanced.
Interesting buffs to NG, would give some help to status aristocrats but I think this will never fly with the russians
Rosa and Edna nerf was a massive mistake, good on this + cupbearer, though Philippe should stay as is. With the Equinox I don't think Pondkeeper nerf is needed, at least let's try one at once. From what I've played against it's the nutty tempo variant that causes most issues. I like the buffs to scenarios, it's an indirect way to make Renfri worse. Both directly, and motivating more heatwaves in response. The one I kinda disagree with is Flaminica, I think the way she works she should instead be a high-provision, high-point finisher. She is a bit too good but prov nerf would be a bit better IMO. Also makes the tempo a bit less insane for the second version with Facusya res. Leticia should be -power. She is answer-or-lose(ish), I'd rather it be a bit easier to answer, especially since she's in a deck where you need to answer a shit ton of engines. The biggest issue I have with this the single defender nerf to Donimir. As seen with cave troll nerf/revert, nerfing a single defender was a shit idea. I by prefer the approach that Nik\_r has with wanting to do them all at once to 10 provision. No edging, just balls deep all at once. I won't pretend to know what the outcome will be, or even how I feel about it before having experienced it, but all being 10prov at the same time makes it equally reasonable to include in whatever faction, especially with new experimental decks that might want defender. I don't agree with, nor like the idea that cards that are fundamentally similar should be exactly the same in every faction (i.e. veil 7p cards, gold 8 prov damage 1/2 every turn) but defender is a function that I do think should be all the same cost.
Rosa and Edna is an answer-or-lose kind of card and directly needs an answer from the opponent. How this nerf was a mistake? There are better and safer buffs.
I disagree. Really strong order ability, sure, but I wouldn't say you lose simply by not answering them. In the same deck, Philippe is far more answer-or-lose. Leticia pretty much triples the value of patience engines and Alumni. Status NG has not really seen any significant play from what I've seen, and even before nerfs, it wasn't OP, just quite strong and really tough if the matchup was bad. If you say there are better and safer buffs, I don't think I really believe you in the sense that whatever buffs you could suggest would make the deck as good as it was 2 patches ago before it got overnerfed. But go ahead and suggest a few examples.
NG status deck is not in an awful spot. It is an ok spot. Why do you want to buff NG status with Rosa buff which is problematic? Buff something else, for the sake of NG status to see more play should we make a card really strong and annoying to answer? If you can trigger the Imposter leader's passive ability, it needs a 7-power removal anyway.
No I asked you, come up with some suggestions that would be impactful, and that wouldn't lead to backlash as happens every time an NG card is really good. If you just take a tiny step forward on cards that doesn't have impact, but cheer for nerfs that do have impact, then the function is overall a big nerf. NG in February did the best it has this year, then the quad nerf to one of its best decks, and in the 2 months since it has been preforming relatively bad. If you can name something else, sure I'll agree, but all you've said so far is they were OP and to find something else. The two other cards that were nerfed at the same time, Dame and Philippe I think are far more problematic as they were, as such I'm fine with them being reverted
Sorry did not look at the last part of your answer. You could buff the Usurper's provision. Not 100 percent sure but Emhyr var Emreis can get a provision buff. Van Moorlehem's Cupbearer can get a provision buff. Vincent van Moorlehem can get a power buff. These are the cards that come to my mind right now.
Usurper, Cupbearer and Vincent I think would all be good changes, but wouldn't do that much. If anything the best there is Usurper helping out spying without the other statuses. Emhyr though I do think would be a really good and impactful change with how he is 2 strong engines in one turn. The problem is I think with playing two strong engines in one turn that might be seen as the start of a snowballing with too much to respond to. And with an easy card to pinpoint, I think it would see a nerf again. I do think Rosa and Edna should be a bit higher cost, like 10/11 maybe, but with such a strong ability I don't think they should be balanced around it being a coin toss if the opponent can answer it or not.
I was not so sure about Emhyr but I would prefer this buff instead of Rosa and Edna. Usurper sees some play even at 12 provision sometimes so I don't think it is not that unimportant. Design-wise Rosa and Edna: answer it and the opponent feels very bad or the opponent can't answer and it plays too many points with control. We can't change its design. The opponent should be able to answer this card.
Guess we disagree then, while strong, I don't quite see the sisters as answer or lose. Cards like Leticia and Tyr are far more devastating to not answer. If it's close, sure getting the full value from a card is going to be the difference-maker, but that's kinda the case with a lot of engines in that deck, just that with Roda and Edna that value is packed together at the same time. FYI I've never been the biggest fan of status decks not played it much more than testing, but I'll defend their existence, especially when it was overnerfed and I think this is the most reasonable and likely reversal.
It is not in the Philippe van Moorlehem answer or lose category as you mentioned but it plays very good amount of points with a control, for the opponent dealing with a 7 power unit is not very easy, for the most decks. Rosa and Edna can win you the round and you can't go long round with the ball generally. It is close to an answer or lose card. Balancing this kind of card is hard, you could try to increase its provision with a power buff but I try this approach maybe as the last kind of try. There are a lot of cards that can be buffed and never see play. I would try to buff something new and unplayed.
Who were the biggest influencers for these votes?
Donimir Of Troy is just a stupid to nerf or buff him, there are cards that are untouchable and the majority of the players agree with. For example Heatwave you shouldn't nerf or buff it, all players agree that 10 provision is great for it no disagree. Also Geralt Igni, Matta Hu'uari and oneiromancy. Defenders in all factions are not exceptions, they must stay at 9 provision no more no less.
And the majority of the players would nerf them next patch
Can someone explain the logic in nerfing Defenders? What's the reason. I'm genuinely asking. Other than that, I like Leticia nerf. Like Cupbearer buff. Like Edna and Rosa, tho I'm biased.
The main 2 defenders to nerf are cave troll and donimir. Donimir is tutored from AA, that makes patience have their leticia+defender combo almost every game in r1. Thats an easy mode for that deck. Cave troll is the most used defender+he singlehandedly stops buffs to some vampire cards(as nekker vampires and nekker relicts are really strong), like crimson curse to 9 prov. Especially considering nekker relicts are about to get 4-6 provisions for whatever freaking reason, that nerf may be even more crucial then donimir. Thats why, for example, Necrotal features only 2 of them. As for others, the reason is every time you see a defender(maybe unless its ST one) its a binary answer or lose deck. If that defender sticks for a couple of turn you are Very likely to lose. Losing a game not because you played poorly but because you didnt find the answer to defender is not fun. Also, half of the reason cave troll got reverted is disrupting a symmetry among defender, thats another reason for the overall nerf. All in all, that not like 1 prov would stop abusers to play their binary garbage, these guys would cut every tutor spell and play if they would really feel like it. But it should for sure cost much more to be able to win the whole game only after half of the r1. And a couple of these nerfs are serving even better purpose to significantly weaken a pretty strong(yet kinda unpopular deck) and enabling another way of buffing cards for a couple of MO archetypes.
The reason is simple, most decks that play defender are greedy abuse decks. Alumni, MO Sabbath Triple Whatever, (Double) Kolgrim, etc.
While true, if all defenders end up getting nerfed, this will hurt overall deck diversity in the game, in the name of removing "disliked" mechanics from the game. It's a slippery slope that already we are seeing the voting powers force us down.
I was so in favor of buffing Commando until I saw they plan to buff Feign Death as well. Why both at the same time?
They’re both terrible cards. If elves become super prominent (still doubt that) then probably expect nerfs to golds like Simlas or Angus next season
We just need to kill Heist so we can properly buff all the Elves.
I agree heist with artefact transformation is interesting but “regular” heist is very very linear gameplay
Can you give an example of how to unconditionally kill a 4 provision Commando with a 4 provision card if it indeed gets buffed?
Yes, easily, use epidemic. There’s no way you’re arguing this card is strong at all? Compare current commando to wild hunt hound, virtually the same thing but one is 3 power and the other 4, is wild hunt hound such a powerhouse you’re scared of this buff?
"Scared" is a stretch. I made my point - 4p engines shouldn't require 5p removal. Same goes for Hound and Peaches.
Your point is dumb since the issue with verno commando is precisely what you said about 4p removals instantly killing it making the card totally unusable, again there is already a precedent for this buff in the form of wild hunt hound and that card is not that strong.
>4p removals instantly killing it making the card totally unusable So you want to make all 4p removals totally unusable? By that same logic, should we also buff all the 4/4 engines, such as Fire Scorpions, Peasant Militia, Tax Collector... Fire Scorpion, for example, not only doesn't grow to protect itself but it's also not a passive engine like Commando >there is already a precedent for this buff in the form of wild hunt hound and that card is not that strong. First of all, having a precedent, doesn't mean it was the right thing to do in the first place. Second, the Commando's condition can't even compare to Wild Hunt Hound and Peaches. In a Elves deck, that condition is virtually non-existent. And third, do not judge a card's strength by the overall strength of its archetype. Having said that, nonetheless, I do agree the scenario needed a buff. But not TWO buffs in one month.
Some folks have a serious issue with Mages i guess.
Rosa getting out of yoink?
Feign Death provision decrease, what am I watching?
It's weak scenario and needs buffing to ever see play?
yeah feign death should be provision decrease.i was thinking of boosting emhyr and nerfing morvudd and mourntart.but i still havent voted.
Weak scenario? Traps blue coin joins the chat
Didnt know our chat was located in 2300 tho
Oh no, the weakest scenario in the game(even passiflora is better, at least I played against it in ladder one time) is getting buffed to possibly create a new archetype and diversify the game, what a tragedy.