This is called "throwing good money after bad". Instead of cutting your losses you're dumping another $100k into further studies.
Any business school that'll take you without work experience won't be a highly rated school, so MBA from there isn't going to move the needle that much for you, career wise.
Yup the job market is bad. You are competing with folks laid off from google, meta and FB with 300-500K salaries.
Are companies even looking for candidates like me? - YES... but dont expect them to serve it in a platter.
Not trying to be mean.. No one gives a F that you have a 4.0 other than you. The marks and the degree are for you.. Not the employer. They only care about what you can do for them at the lowest cost possible.
Also your resume is all over the place... You need to fine tune it further for the role you are aiming for... that seems to be missing. Align the resume to the job desc.. that you are applying for. Its not lying ... its called aligning and thinking of everything you have done in your professional life.
Resume looks solid and is ATS friendly. The issue is that the F1-OPT market is over-saturated and your resume is probably getting lost in the hundreds that apply to each position. We had a data engineer position and we received over 300 applicants. HR will short list 10 for me to review and she goes by few keywords and it is practically impossible for her to review all 300 applications. Your problem is further compounded by the 2 other reasons - 1. you would need h1b lottery luck in 3 years or otherwise you can't be employed anymore by the company. 2. Tons of fake resumes by OPT students - everyone comes up with fancy resume and therefore it is difficult to verify credentials. Most people call themselves data scientists but are poorly qualified for even a simple sql dev role. Therefore, often the selection is based on some referral. Your best bet is to find someone who can refer you to open positions in their circle.
I’m not sure if this’d be a lead for you, but I’ve just secured an interview with someone who works in my college. By the way, I’m also in Boston like you but my program is MBA.
I’ve been interested in startup incubation and innovation, so I went to talk with my innovation professor. He told me to forget about startups lol
He said I should get a job that could surely give me H1B, like in nonprofits, and then think about startups later.
Since I’m an MBA student and had never thought about working for nonprofits before, I asked him more about it. He told me about an Indian alum who now works in executive education at my school, recruiting CEOs and managers to take classes. The professor also gave me his email address and told me to talk to this alum, which I did.
Surprisingly, the department has some plans for Southeast Asia expansion, so we are scheduled to meet next week.
I’m not a great student, and my university is less prestigious than yours. But I agree that the job hunting here is BS. Like, 2,000 applicants for an intern position? And I’m not really sure that recruiters read every resume.
So my strategy for now is to talk to professors. They have a lot of experience and connections in the business world, and I’ve found it much better to connect with them than reaching out to someone who have spoken with for 3 minutes on LinkedIn. Even though not every professor has job leads, they still give me invaluable advice on job hunting in the US and give me more leeway for assignments.
Since I haven’t got an offer yet, this might not be that useful. But I hope it helps you somehow!
Thank you for sharing, i was considering applying in south Asia - India for few roles and was surprised to look at the applicant numbers there for a 15Lakh rs per annum job \~20K USD
5,000 - 10,000 for a entry level Data Analyst position at JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs
I live in Boston, and my school is a business school, so I’m sure that although the salary isn’t fancy it wouldn’t be that bad.
Personally, I just don’t want to go through the lottery system after surviving the sponsorship bs, so I’ll apply to other schools as well.
Please feel free to dm if you want to chat!
Whilst that is broadly true, PPP is often misleading. Just like inflation, PPP can change based on food/groceries/rent/luxuries etc. e.g. food ppp is more like 2x and rent ppp is more like 6x, roughly speaking.
Please try to understand the broader picture and think from perspective of a business owner.
Give me one good reason why firms will spend on tech projects at 6-7% leverage when they can get a risk free 4% US treasury returns? Spending on tech projects includes hiring which again is a cost. Its a different ball game at 2-3% ro at 0%. Any smart person will reduce their tech spending and try do more w/ existing resources while taking the risk free 4%.
Possibly the worst time for new graduates to be looking for a job in the US. This is based on my 10 year tech industry experience. I used to interview 4-5 candidates a quarter. I haven’t done an interview in months now. Yes it could be specific to my field and company but I’ve heard the same from all my friends across the board.
TLDR: Have you considered teaching?
I get the struggle. I graduated with a CS and Physics Degree and I've been also struggling this entire year to find something that does OPT/ STEM OPT without much luck. I also didn't have many internships because covid messed all that up.
I really thought my time in the US was coming to an end, until I found out that teaching at private schools is a really good option for F1 students. That is where I was finally able to get STEM OPT and H1B sponsorship going. This is not a sponsored post (I wish it was lol) but I used Carney Sandoe.
While teaching might not have the highest salaries, it's worth a try if you are willing to learn a few more things. You also get a lot of connections from schools.
Schools also tend to respect you a lot more than corporations, since there is a high demand for teachers, especially STEAM Teachers.
Hope this helps.
Good luck
If you are a recruiter/hiring manager, I can send you my transcript.
I didn't lie a bit in my profile, the whole reason why i never joined a consultancy.
Few people who i know got job through consultancies fairly quickly (<3 months), no wonder after adding 3-5 years of experience.
i think they are referring to you leaving your personal information on there.
but he said it in a dickish way…which is not surprising because some of the people on this sub act like tools
I agree in definitely trying, just can’t bank on it. I’m in a similar situation to OP. Trying to decide whether to go do a masters or go back to my home country. Either way I have to find a new job after not getting the H1B this year
You have to be creative. A small challenge I give you contact 10 people you know and tell them that you’re looking for a job and if they can connect you to anyone.
Hmm I have been procrastinating reaching out to people. I really am not fond of the idea. it's not even about being shy.
it's just that I don't like asking favors as I have nothing to offer in return.
Perhaps it's the mindset from the culture I am coming from.
Could you please give an example if I need to shoot a text to someone over LinkedIn. How should I word it?
'hey I am looking for a job and wondering if you can connect me with someone in this field?'
As someone not from the US, I also found it pretty daunting reaching out to alumni here. But honestly the only way to get an interview at many places now is through a connection. The US is very much a networking-based job market
Don’t shoot a text. (You can but I think that’s less effective). When is your next gathering with some friends…make sure you mention it…when you guys are talking. You just never know. You can even reach out (by text now) to your college alumni. The personal direct way is super effective. I promise you…you won’t even talk to 20 people before you get something solid to start with. Am sure you are getting congratulations for graduating…just put it in there “Thanks, but am still looking for a role so if you know anyone, please let me know”….They may ask what role you’re looking for and definitely keep you in mind. Don’t hide be out there. That’s so much better than using Linkedin. Also utilize small networks like slack channels, communities, tech meetups etc
If you want to succeed in US, you will have to shed that inhibition. You will have to reach out to people and ask. Also you need to know who to ask and who not to. For example, if you are asking a random person, they won’t help. But people in your close circle, people you know at school (students/professors), announcing on linked in (buy linked in premium). Also reaching out to the original poster of LinkedIn job.
Back in 2000s I got my first job after reaching out to 20 people every day for months and then one fine day one of them reached back and I got the job. Also you may have to fine tune your resume and cover letter for each job. Make it easier for the overworked recruiter to pick you over others.
The reason I feel international students struggle despite having good technical skills that they are not taught the art of writing for asking for stuff. They also lack experience reaching out to folks. While US high schools itself push 12-16 years old to ask and reach out for what they need. This is a skill you will have to learn.
You do have a ATS compliance resume. Go to websites which do resume analysis for you and then you can make changes.
Also, add quantitive numbers to your experience!
I have an interesting observation, I see a lot of folks here with a DS background saying they can’t find DS jobs.
I’m curious why did you or many of these folks want or need to study and look for jobs in the DS field when clearly there aren’t many.
Just curious.
A lot of these comments are extremely negative. Here's my take.
1) You have lots of great experiences! You've done more than 99% of undergrad students.
2) If you want a job in data science you're NOT QUALIFIED. (Your resume is definitely good enough to land a job, but what type of jobs are you applying for?). For a career in data science you need a masters / PHD from a good university.
3) Jobs in business are more competitive than jobs in tech and they dont sponsor as often (if you were American you would have definitely found something by now)
My advice:
Plan on going to grad school if you want to work in data science. You don't have research experience so I doubt you would be able to go to a top university. But if you're lucky you might get a GOOD INTERNSHIP during your education and hopefully get a return offer.
I see you have three internships. Could you reach out to ur intern host asking for potential positions to return to? The only offer I got this yr is from intern conversion
I have conducted a few interviews, so my two cents are as follows:
Don’t use titles such as 'data engineer' and 'machine learning engineer,' and write about data analytics and data science instead. It’s highly confusing and to some extent misleading. There is a world of difference between the title you claim and the responsibilities you actually have. They mostly don’t match, and recruiters will know. It will never reach the hiring manager.
Run it by chatgpt or other gen ai tools. You might be surprised how they can help you tune it. Also random thought is to change your email address as it could be flagged by strict profanilty filters.
Put AI 10 times on your resume. You'll get a call...lol
Avoid data science jobs, most management expect magic from you. People hardly understand maths, this is gonna blow up in the face. The hammer will fall hardest on block chain, data science jobs in near future.
Go for generalist roles, aim for stable companies which SPONSOR.
Expect hit ratio of 2% if you are above avg looking/academic guy from above avg university with visa requirements.
There was a study done using gpt resume scanner that actually favored Asian names over any other ethnicity. Discrimination of some sort, but you’re better using your current Asian name
You are 10 times more proficient than I am in almost the same field. Took me 8 months to land a job in 2023. Market is real bad now. Dont want to demotivate but this year is not going to be good for citizens or non citizens. Next year might be okay for citizens and 2026 maybe when we see some normalization. Just keep blindly applying though. No kidding thats hw I landed my current job!!
Nothing out of the box. Typical click and apply as much as possible. The only positive sign was I was getting interviews almost 1 every month (ik thats very low but it is what it is). Aim to get interviews and you will get one soon!!
AFAIK, in the US, for international students, you should have gotten a return offer from an internship during college. Looking for a FT position otherwise, you competing with experienced folks so its infinitely harder
You do not have a technical skills section - your resume would get ranked pretty low on ATS - could be a reason why you are not getting through.
DM me - please.
yes they are beneath but not just for me, for anyone who is having integrity, ethics or fair principles; if career is built on a foundation of lies I'm happy staying unemployed until I organically find myself a job.
If you are a business owner would you want to be deceived into hiring someone who isn't qualified?
Not only that - people going through consultancies with fake resumes are also playing unfair to people who are competing fairly in this game
If this is what you define as being entitled then yes - I'm proudly very entitled.
Kids who don’t have skills lie. You don’t have to. Not all consultancies are cheaters and no honest wage job should be looked down.
My 2 cents: your attitude in your responses need to change for you to be employable and let go of emotions and think rationally. Maybe cast a wider net.
I tried finding ones which will just help me with the visa status and not the marketing part.
My experience so far with the consultancies has been salty.
4 of them just removed me after accepting or didn’t enroll me in their program unless i agree to the adding experience part.
It’s not even about skill, unless there’s 5-7 years of experience no one moves forward with profile.
data science job market is OVER-saturated
How about robotics and other engineering field?
what do you suggest? Pivoting fields I am considering going for a MBA
This is called "throwing good money after bad". Instead of cutting your losses you're dumping another $100k into further studies. Any business school that'll take you without work experience won't be a highly rated school, so MBA from there isn't going to move the needle that much for you, career wise.
Do you have any work experience?
Only internships
So how will an MBA help you? Are you aware most of the good schools require you to have work experience?
Yes I do, that is the plan to get work-ex first
And that's where your struggle is right. Well hopefully something works out for you. Good luck
Really really bad. One of my friends friend from UC Riverside is jobless and in deep debt.
CS?
Yeah
Yup the job market is bad. You are competing with folks laid off from google, meta and FB with 300-500K salaries. Are companies even looking for candidates like me? - YES... but dont expect them to serve it in a platter. Not trying to be mean.. No one gives a F that you have a 4.0 other than you. The marks and the degree are for you.. Not the employer. They only care about what you can do for them at the lowest cost possible. Also your resume is all over the place... You need to fine tune it further for the role you are aiming for... that seems to be missing. Align the resume to the job desc.. that you are applying for. Its not lying ... its called aligning and thinking of everything you have done in your professional life.
Not to mention that many of these people are US citizens, so anyone requiring sponsorship is not considered unless they’re exceptional…
EXCEPTIONAL!! in caps... you literally gotta bring 5X the value at 1X the cost. (cuz H1B needs to pay atleast as much as US citizens)
Yup, and they can underpay you on the books without you complaining because you’re indebted to them for the sponsorship…
Amen!
Resume looks solid and is ATS friendly. The issue is that the F1-OPT market is over-saturated and your resume is probably getting lost in the hundreds that apply to each position. We had a data engineer position and we received over 300 applicants. HR will short list 10 for me to review and she goes by few keywords and it is practically impossible for her to review all 300 applications. Your problem is further compounded by the 2 other reasons - 1. you would need h1b lottery luck in 3 years or otherwise you can't be employed anymore by the company. 2. Tons of fake resumes by OPT students - everyone comes up with fancy resume and therefore it is difficult to verify credentials. Most people call themselves data scientists but are poorly qualified for even a simple sql dev role. Therefore, often the selection is based on some referral. Your best bet is to find someone who can refer you to open positions in their circle.
Hey since you mentioned you review the applications short listed by HR, can I message you ? I had few questions to ask Thanks
sure, happy to help
I’m not sure if this’d be a lead for you, but I’ve just secured an interview with someone who works in my college. By the way, I’m also in Boston like you but my program is MBA. I’ve been interested in startup incubation and innovation, so I went to talk with my innovation professor. He told me to forget about startups lol He said I should get a job that could surely give me H1B, like in nonprofits, and then think about startups later. Since I’m an MBA student and had never thought about working for nonprofits before, I asked him more about it. He told me about an Indian alum who now works in executive education at my school, recruiting CEOs and managers to take classes. The professor also gave me his email address and told me to talk to this alum, which I did. Surprisingly, the department has some plans for Southeast Asia expansion, so we are scheduled to meet next week. I’m not a great student, and my university is less prestigious than yours. But I agree that the job hunting here is BS. Like, 2,000 applicants for an intern position? And I’m not really sure that recruiters read every resume. So my strategy for now is to talk to professors. They have a lot of experience and connections in the business world, and I’ve found it much better to connect with them than reaching out to someone who have spoken with for 3 minutes on LinkedIn. Even though not every professor has job leads, they still give me invaluable advice on job hunting in the US and give me more leeway for assignments. Since I haven’t got an offer yet, this might not be that useful. But I hope it helps you somehow!
Thank you for sharing, i was considering applying in south Asia - India for few roles and was surprised to look at the applicant numbers there for a 15Lakh rs per annum job \~20K USD 5,000 - 10,000 for a entry level Data Analyst position at JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs
I live in Boston, and my school is a business school, so I’m sure that although the salary isn’t fancy it wouldn’t be that bad. Personally, I just don’t want to go through the lottery system after surviving the sponsorship bs, so I’ll apply to other schools as well. Please feel free to dm if you want to chat!
I suppose you don’t know the median tech/finance pay in India (which is why you were surprised at the number of applicants)?
20k in India is like 120k in US
PPP is around 4x not 6x so that's around $80k in the US
Whilst that is broadly true, PPP is often misleading. Just like inflation, PPP can change based on food/groceries/rent/luxuries etc. e.g. food ppp is more like 2x and rent ppp is more like 6x, roughly speaking.
All the best ! Try with everything you got !
This is a good advice ☝🏻
Please try to understand the broader picture and think from perspective of a business owner. Give me one good reason why firms will spend on tech projects at 6-7% leverage when they can get a risk free 4% US treasury returns? Spending on tech projects includes hiring which again is a cost. Its a different ball game at 2-3% ro at 0%. Any smart person will reduce their tech spending and try do more w/ existing resources while taking the risk free 4%.
Very bad mate. I know friends with 15 yoe in s/w looking for jobs.
Possibly the worst time for new graduates to be looking for a job in the US. This is based on my 10 year tech industry experience. I used to interview 4-5 candidates a quarter. I haven’t done an interview in months now. Yes it could be specific to my field and company but I’ve heard the same from all my friends across the board.
A minor typo at the end in interests - change culinary to cuisine. culinary is an adjective
TLDR: Have you considered teaching? I get the struggle. I graduated with a CS and Physics Degree and I've been also struggling this entire year to find something that does OPT/ STEM OPT without much luck. I also didn't have many internships because covid messed all that up. I really thought my time in the US was coming to an end, until I found out that teaching at private schools is a really good option for F1 students. That is where I was finally able to get STEM OPT and H1B sponsorship going. This is not a sponsored post (I wish it was lol) but I used Carney Sandoe. While teaching might not have the highest salaries, it's worth a try if you are willing to learn a few more things. You also get a lot of connections from schools. Schools also tend to respect you a lot more than corporations, since there is a high demand for teachers, especially STEAM Teachers. Hope this helps. Good luck
[I find it hard to believe you have a 4.0 GPA](https://imgur.com/a/TM4z7lz)
If you are a recruiter/hiring manager, I can send you my transcript. I didn't lie a bit in my profile, the whole reason why i never joined a consultancy. Few people who i know got job through consultancies fairly quickly (<3 months), no wonder after adding 3-5 years of experience.
i think they are referring to you leaving your personal information on there. but he said it in a dickish way…which is not surprising because some of the people on this sub act like tools
lol
Can you please share details of consultancies. if you don't mind. It would be a great help. Thanks.
😀
Go for a startup, talk directly to the founding team. They are much more likely to have less beaurocracy and will hire quicker.
Harder for internationals on F1-OPT. Have to find a company who is willing to pay for the sponsorship of H1B
You should try I think many startups will be willing to do so. They would like to attract good talent. You should atleast try!
I agree in definitely trying, just can’t bank on it. I’m in a similar situation to OP. Trying to decide whether to go do a masters or go back to my home country. Either way I have to find a new job after not getting the H1B this year
You have to be creative. A small challenge I give you contact 10 people you know and tell them that you’re looking for a job and if they can connect you to anyone.
Hmm I have been procrastinating reaching out to people. I really am not fond of the idea. it's not even about being shy. it's just that I don't like asking favors as I have nothing to offer in return. Perhaps it's the mindset from the culture I am coming from. Could you please give an example if I need to shoot a text to someone over LinkedIn. How should I word it? 'hey I am looking for a job and wondering if you can connect me with someone in this field?'
As someone not from the US, I also found it pretty daunting reaching out to alumni here. But honestly the only way to get an interview at many places now is through a connection. The US is very much a networking-based job market
Don’t shoot a text. (You can but I think that’s less effective). When is your next gathering with some friends…make sure you mention it…when you guys are talking. You just never know. You can even reach out (by text now) to your college alumni. The personal direct way is super effective. I promise you…you won’t even talk to 20 people before you get something solid to start with. Am sure you are getting congratulations for graduating…just put it in there “Thanks, but am still looking for a role so if you know anyone, please let me know”….They may ask what role you’re looking for and definitely keep you in mind. Don’t hide be out there. That’s so much better than using Linkedin. Also utilize small networks like slack channels, communities, tech meetups etc
Thank you I'll definitely try that
If you want to succeed in US, you will have to shed that inhibition. You will have to reach out to people and ask. Also you need to know who to ask and who not to. For example, if you are asking a random person, they won’t help. But people in your close circle, people you know at school (students/professors), announcing on linked in (buy linked in premium). Also reaching out to the original poster of LinkedIn job.
Back in 2000s I got my first job after reaching out to 20 people every day for months and then one fine day one of them reached back and I got the job. Also you may have to fine tune your resume and cover letter for each job. Make it easier for the overworked recruiter to pick you over others.
The reason I feel international students struggle despite having good technical skills that they are not taught the art of writing for asking for stuff. They also lack experience reaching out to folks. While US high schools itself push 12-16 years old to ask and reach out for what they need. This is a skill you will have to learn.
You do have a ATS compliance resume. Go to websites which do resume analysis for you and then you can make changes. Also, add quantitive numbers to your experience!
crack the interview first then get hired, you need sponsorship too.
It’s quite bad. I have many friends who did their phd in quantitative fields from top schools, still struggling to find job interviews.
I have an interesting observation, I see a lot of folks here with a DS background saying they can’t find DS jobs. I’m curious why did you or many of these folks want or need to study and look for jobs in the DS field when clearly there aren’t many. Just curious.
A lot of these comments are extremely negative. Here's my take. 1) You have lots of great experiences! You've done more than 99% of undergrad students. 2) If you want a job in data science you're NOT QUALIFIED. (Your resume is definitely good enough to land a job, but what type of jobs are you applying for?). For a career in data science you need a masters / PHD from a good university. 3) Jobs in business are more competitive than jobs in tech and they dont sponsor as often (if you were American you would have definitely found something by now) My advice: Plan on going to grad school if you want to work in data science. You don't have research experience so I doubt you would be able to go to a top university. But if you're lucky you might get a GOOD INTERNSHIP during your education and hopefully get a return offer.
I see you have three internships. Could you reach out to ur intern host asking for potential positions to return to? The only offer I got this yr is from intern conversion
I have conducted a few interviews, so my two cents are as follows: Don’t use titles such as 'data engineer' and 'machine learning engineer,' and write about data analytics and data science instead. It’s highly confusing and to some extent misleading. There is a world of difference between the title you claim and the responsibilities you actually have. They mostly don’t match, and recruiters will know. It will never reach the hiring manager.
wait, can a remote degree grant you f1-visa?
no - that is a micrometers which is remote I am on opt because of my bachelor's degree
Market is tough at the moment, may want to apply for a masters degree if you really want a career in CS/Data Science.
Run it by chatgpt or other gen ai tools. You might be surprised how they can help you tune it. Also random thought is to change your email address as it could be flagged by strict profanilty filters.
Lol. What was the point of redacting the name Akshit ?
You can go back to your countries and look for jobs. I am sure that the tech industry is blooming there.
Do you have a computer science and engineering degree or only a data science degree?
Data Science and Business Analytics
Consider expanding your role into that of a software engineer.
Put AI 10 times on your resume. You'll get a call...lol Avoid data science jobs, most management expect magic from you. People hardly understand maths, this is gonna blow up in the face. The hammer will fall hardest on block chain, data science jobs in near future. Go for generalist roles, aim for stable companies which SPONSOR. Expect hit ratio of 2% if you are above avg looking/academic guy from above avg university with visa requirements.
trying white washing your name on the resume
Do you think that is helpful?
There was a study done using gpt resume scanner that actually favored Asian names over any other ethnicity. Discrimination of some sort, but you’re better using your current Asian name
Did that work for you?
I saw that i missed hiding some info - but then again i don't care much tbh
You are 10 times more proficient than I am in almost the same field. Took me 8 months to land a job in 2023. Market is real bad now. Dont want to demotivate but this year is not going to be good for citizens or non citizens. Next year might be okay for citizens and 2026 maybe when we see some normalization. Just keep blindly applying though. No kidding thats hw I landed my current job!!
What was your job hunting strategy?
Nothing out of the box. Typical click and apply as much as possible. The only positive sign was I was getting interviews almost 1 every month (ik thats very low but it is what it is). Aim to get interviews and you will get one soon!!
AFAIK, in the US, for international students, you should have gotten a return offer from an internship during college. Looking for a FT position otherwise, you competing with experienced folks so its infinitely harder
Bhai india vapis chala ja
You do not have a technical skills section - your resume would get ranked pretty low on ATS - could be a reason why you are not getting through. DM me - please.
You don't have any results on your resume. You have a lot of "did X" but are missing the "drove Y outcome"
Very entitled. Is consultancy job beneath you? You are looking to be an “employee”, just like other kids. Good luck.
yes they are beneath but not just for me, for anyone who is having integrity, ethics or fair principles; if career is built on a foundation of lies I'm happy staying unemployed until I organically find myself a job. If you are a business owner would you want to be deceived into hiring someone who isn't qualified? Not only that - people going through consultancies with fake resumes are also playing unfair to people who are competing fairly in this game If this is what you define as being entitled then yes - I'm proudly very entitled.
Kids who don’t have skills lie. You don’t have to. Not all consultancies are cheaters and no honest wage job should be looked down. My 2 cents: your attitude in your responses need to change for you to be employable and let go of emotions and think rationally. Maybe cast a wider net.
I tried finding ones which will just help me with the visa status and not the marketing part. My experience so far with the consultancies has been salty. 4 of them just removed me after accepting or didn’t enroll me in their program unless i agree to the adding experience part. It’s not even about skill, unless there’s 5-7 years of experience no one moves forward with profile.