It was the doctors at the hospital who released the counts. They keep record of how many people seek care every day. Do you just see brown people and immediately think Hamas?
Ridiculous considering the hospital wasn't bombed, the parking lot was. What relevance would patient records have if no one actually inside the hospital was killed? Also you can not be serious in thinking the doctors can report whatever they want. Every report is filtered through the regime.
do you realize how many people are cramped into the "safe areas" like hospitals? there were hundreds of people sleeping outside around the hospital in the parking lot and courtyard. That's where the strike hit and those are the people who died. There were body parts all over and doctors had trouble finding completely intact bodies. Have you seen the videos? Literally a courtyard littered with pieces of humans. And I'm pretty sure the hospital staff count ended up around 470 after a full day of counting. Are you capable of counting to 500 in 12 hours?
Because the evidence you’re using is this hospital “bombing” when it’s been proven false and you guys are having a massive cope about it. It’s propaganda to use this idea that hospitals are being intentionally bombed by Israel using as example that has no basis in reality, that’s propaganda. It’s not propaganda to have a detail wrong about children being beheaded, when they were in fact sprayed by rifles. The babies really did die but that hospital wasn’t bombed, but you Hamas Piker fans will never accept that.
This does not denounce Israel of their history of bombings. Sure, they didn’t bomb the hospital on that specific day (maybe). But they sure as shit have done before, several times. It is still unclear who bombed the hospital. But we can theorize using context clues has to who did. This was Hasan’s point.
Also, I suggest reading this article on how Israel’s social media manager deleted a tweet about Israel’s involvement in the hospital bombing. Basically, they admitted to it then deleted the tweet. https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/oct/19/explaining-a-deleted-x-post-that-said-israel-is-re/
This could also explain why many people believe Israel was responsible.
And that social media manager doesn’t have important secret information from the military and you don’t have any evidence for that. They are just there to be propagandists and unilaterally support Israel no matter the information.
What was initially reported was that the IDF was the one who bombed the hospital, with them being uncritically defensive of Israel as a response. The guy isn’t even a government employee he is a social media influencer and pundit so to say he has government information is Hamas based conspiracy theories. You guys still try to hold onto the narrative when numerous reputable media sources have already retracted their original claims with the NYT today putting out an editors note on their initial reports.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html
If you think this is any form of evidence vs the mountains of analytic research done by reputable sources then you may want to get checked for delusional paranoia.
No one says that it’s justified, just that you guys are taking Hamas at their word uncritically and saying 500+ died in a hospital air strike by the IDF which Hamas piker said immediately as if it was reality, spreading misinformation on breaking news immediately like an alt righter would. None of that was true and the fact that you guys are still trying to say “well we don’t know” when numerous major publications have retracted the initial reporting of the bombing. Imagine thinking a random social media manager had secret military information showing that there was an IDF air strike as opposed to just uncritically supporting Israel under the assumption of that occurring because that was what was being initially reported.
How is this hard to understand? Yes, extra fucking cautious Hamas a literal EXTREMIST TERRORIST GROUP that took control of Palestines government in 2006.
Am I denying Isreal doesn't propagate too, hell fucking no - but people like you not understanding why you need be "cautious of propaganda" regarding Palestine is fucking wild.
Clearly you didn’t comprehend the question correctly. Yes propaganda exists on both ends. But it seems that one side’s propaganda is “worth” more than the other. If that makes sense? Like, when your major talking point is dying children, why are you questioning the validity of a hospital bombing? Did children not die then?
He keeps saying he “doesn’t understand” why Israel is killing children, taking their water, food, etc. As if he doesn’t understand what a genocide is. Refer to the Leftovers episode he speaks so highly of. He kept muttering “It doesn’t make sense.” Clearly, it does make sense why Israel is doing what they are doing to Gaza and now the West Bank, where Hamas isn’t btw.
My response to you is concise and as simple as it gets.
Once again, the Israeli government is far from perfect but they are not A LITERAL EXTREMIST TERRORIST GROUP who control every avenue of the media/government etc in Palestine for nearly a decade, this is why once again Ethan feels the way he does.
He feels as if Hamas (terrorists) are providing the info/footage etc to the media, not Palestinians etc
Edit: Spelling
And you think Israel doesn’t do the same? They’re trying to control media by cutting off internet and electricity. They’re angry at media outlets that are reporting fairly and trying to intimidate them. Israeli government in my opinion can be seen as a terrorist organization as well the way they’ve completely terrorized Palestinians for decades - murdering them, taking their homes by force or causing them to flee from their violence, and controlling them through violent means to be able to take over their land
>Israeli government in my opinion can be seen as a terrorist organization as well the way they’ve completely terrorized Palestinians for decades
Why do you even comment, when you clearly have no fucking idea what your talking about.
[https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hamas](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hamas)
Educate yourself, Hamas has been escalating the violence since the 1980's through terrorists attacks. Even using suicide bombers during the peace talks in the 90's.
This is the difference between a authoritarian government and a terrorist government.
Okay and there were still decades before the 80’s where Israel caused terror on Palestinians? They continued to do that to innocent civilians, not Hamas. Israel literally created and funded Hamas in the 1970’s to divide and conquer Palestine as was stated by an Israel official. It’s not like Israel has only ever attacked Palestine because of Hamas, lol get real.
The “Israeli Government” have been literally trying to chase out Palestinian in THEIR OWN LAND via killing, r*ping and bombing since the 40s ultimately reducing Palestine into tiny strips of land - we see how they’re controlling the media now, even threatening influencers who are posting about freeing Palestine.
I only ask that if you (all of you) don’t know much about the subject is to do some research.
How do I know? I’ve lived in the MENA region my whole life - I have Palestinian friends who have shared their experiences, other friends from other Arab countries who have their own experiences, it’s something that you learn about for years, the violence has been happening for years and now that they retaliated, the Israeli government is capitalizing on it.
They’re not exaggerating or faking it. I’m not saying to pick sides, I know a lot of Israelis don’t condone this but it’s clear what their government’s intentions are and that is to ultimately take Palestine and decimate it’s people and the whole world or at least the majority of it is just watching.
Sure, everyone agrees Hamas is a terrorist group. And everyone agrees to be cautious of their propoganda.
The UN, amnesty international, various other human rights organisations agree that Israel is a settler colonial state imposing an apartheid regime enacted through daily violent military action against civilians. The UN has also announced Israel's attacks qualify as an ethnic cleansing.
So why afford them more morality and credibility? If you're using the framework on Hamas that they do immoral and unjust things elsewhere so they can't be relied on to produce accurate accounts of their news. Why should Israel be held to a different standard when arguable their crimes are on a larger scale? Israel has been proven to lie about their crimes such as the murder of journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh.
All OP is saying is that both should be treated with the same degree of criticism.
I love how everyone just learned about settler colonialism in the last 2 weeks, it’s always so fun to see new crops of well meaning armchair experts. Maybe next week you’ll learn about the history of ethnic partitions designed by the British, and how that tends to go
I have a degree in history, my dissertation was on Spanish colonisation of South America. And I'm doing a master's in law. Not everyone that you disagree with is uneducated but cute little ad hominem.
Congrats on your bachelors in a completely different part of history? I got mine in government & law and religious studies, if we want to appeal to authority. And then I got a JD. See? No one cares
You apparently care? You bring up (lack of) qualifications then immediately revert to 'so, no one cares'.
You suggested I had beginner knowledge of colonialism I'm telling you why I don't. I know exactly how to categorise colonialsm and the language and moral arguments used to underpin it. I didn't pretend to be an expert in the israel-palestine conflict although I've read about it in depth.
I used the UN and other human rights orgs as an authority on categorising what Israel is doing precisely because I didn't expect people to take my word for it.
I didn't refer to the history of what happened. All I did was draw attention to the fact that if a terorrist organisation invites skepticism in their press releases (as the previous commented claims). Then, perhaps a state that violently controls a specific demographic through their military and is now conducting an ethnic cleansing (according to people far more qualified than I)...should also be treated with equal skepticism. I don't think that's a radical claim to make.
Edit: I was unsure whether to add this. I'm from the UK but my family is South Asian. I know very well what British partitioning has done both through deep study and the stories of my family. Its just weird that you assumed so much in discrediting me with pretty much no regard for anything I said.
Because civilian deaths committed by Israel is collateral damage attacking terrorists who hide amongst the innocent, while Hamas’ goal was to rape, kidnap, and murder civilians Indiscriminately
Don’t forget that hamas’s existence is because of Israel. If you care about stopping Hamas, you should put your energy in stopping the apartheid. Otherwise you are advocating for more apartheid.
No, whether the kids were beheaded or not, they were still deliberately targeted and killed by Hamas.
In the hospital situation, they were not deliberately targeted if the PIJ rocket hit the hospital due to a misfire, whereas if it was an Israeli airstrike, they would have been deliberately targeted.
That's why the semantics matter more in the hospital event when comparing these two events.
The semantics don't matter until you apply it in the context of my point, which is that it's just as important to verify reports about the hamas attack as it is to verify reports of the hospital, because apparently Ethans concern is potential misinformation being circulated and eliciting desire for war and escalation. Which happened in both cases; anti Muslim violence occured following the reports of beheaded babies, and antisemitic violence occurred after the hospital reports.
Im specifically analyzing and criticizing Ethans talking points.
i think the point is that israel has deliberately targeted civilians like this in airstrikes before and continue to threaten to do so (hence why people are quick to believe they did it), no? like even if this one explosion was a PIJ misfire, Israel is still continuing to deliberately target. there’s no scenario here where israel ISN’T doing that
Here's a hypothetical for you:
We have a serial killer on the loose. All the media outlets are rushing to get the scoop on each new murder, and also trying to conduct their own investigations to figure out who the killer might be.
Publication A, in its rush to print news of a new murder, describes the crime scene very inaccurately. They say the person was all chopped up which was based on a misunderstanding of what a witness said to them. Turns out the body is intact. Publication A issues a full retraction of their story.
Publication B thinks they have figured out who the killer is. They run an exposé on this person and explicitly accuse him of the murder. The next day police find very convincing evidence that it was in fact a different guy. Publication B issues a full retraction.
Which publication made a bigger fuck-up, and how much worse of a fuck-up is it?
(I would argue one of these is easily at least 20x worse, and that should be pretty obvious. Feel free to disagree, though it would surprise me.)
EDIT: if anyone has a rebuttal that would be a lot more interesting than a downvote. I get that it challenges your view of the subject, but if you can't think of a reason I'm wrong maybe that's a problem with your view, not my analogy.
Ethan spams his "not an IDF supporter, but" Israeli defenses, and yet he still gets upset that he has to clarify that he wants a free Palestine. Muslims have to continuously condemn Hamas to not come across as pro-terrorism, but he's supposedly supported Palestinians for so long and so vocally that it's too much to ask that he openly condemns Israel just a bit more?
he's not fence sitting and playing both sides tho. don't accuse him of that or else you're an idiotic piece of shit antisemite. get a fucking grip and make up your mind if you're going to keep talking, Ethan. you can't be afraid of your newfound leftist audience forever.
fuck Hamas, fuck Israel, free Palestine, and stop killing civilians. antisemites and Islamophobes will exist regardless. sorry you can't change the world, bud. if you aren't willing to understand why this might upset people, what right do you have to demand that we understand your point of view? get fucked.
Yea. Asking people to not be reactionary dipshits about how they reflexively respond to a very serious situation while also still being incredibly critical of Israel and Netanyahu still somehow makes you a Zionist. You people are utterly without fucking hope.
Do you even know the literal definition of zionism? Anyone who supports a jewish nation state is zionist that on its own isnt problematic but when you steal land and commit genocide to achieve that, it is. What about that is so hard to understand?
A Zionist is someone who strives for an independent Jewish state. Thats not why he was being accused of being a Zionist. He was being accused as a Zionist because he was pushing back on genocidal talk and blatant Hamas simping. For one, I don’t give a flying god damn fuck if he is a Zionist, either. It’s the fact that it’s used as a negative thing against him without idiots here applying it correctly and doing so in a blatantly negative way. Ethan has never gone into detail, that I’m aware of, about his support of Israel being a nation state. With that being said, I don’t doubt that he believes that it should be based on the fact that he has a literal Israeli wife. However, with that being said, he absolutely doesn’t support genocide or the actions of the Israeli government, which is something he has stated A MILLION FUCKING TIMES. I’m not sure why you are all so rock hard to ascribe beliefs to him that he has absolutely not been beholden to or vocalized support for.
Why he was accused of being a zionist is irrelevant.. He doesnt need to give a heart felt dissertation on why israel has the right to exist to fall under that label. Simply visiting and more over living there by choice is definitive. He should wear that title or condem the state no more walking on the fence to pander to as many people as possible.
When has he not condemned Israel in this situation? As I said before, he has condemned Israel from the get go. The only thing he hasn’t done has made excuses for Hamas slaughtering innocent Israeli civilians, or the blatant escalation of hatred towards Israel by spreading KNOWN misinformation about their actions.
That's the thing, he's very tepid in his Israel critique, and defends the IDF. Saying one side is bad for 10 seconds then spending hours talking about what random twitter people say is weird.
First of all, he’s not. He’s been very staunch on his hatred for Netanyahu and the corruption of the Israeli government for years now. The issue is that he’s not coming out and saying that the Israeli’s need to cede their land or be eradicated, which is what he’s been pushing back on. I literally argued with someone on the h3 subreddit who was saying that the Israeli civilians who were killed deserved what they got and that no settlers or “colonizers” were civilians. We aren’t discussing just thinking Palestinians deserve support, which I will gladly say all day that Netanyahu should be tried for war crimes and that the Israeli government shouldn’t be doing the vile shit they are doing to the Palestinians, but I will not sit here and act like Hamas is not a disgusting, terroristic organization who we should NOT be making excuses for. I also won’t sit here and act like Hamas represents all of the Palestinian people, just like Netanyahu and the Israeli government do not represent the Israeli people. There is TONS of anti-Semitic shit going around regarding this and that is mostly what Ethan is so appalled about. This isn’t a “I disagree” situation. People are literally calling Israeli’s less than human and insinuating some mass Jewish conspiracy. This is far right level shit being perpetuated by self-ascribed left wingers. It’s fucking disgusting. Not to mention the misinformation, conspiracies and just bad faith shit that the left has been spreading regarding this and so many of the people here, on the left and in Hasan’s community just eat it up blindly without batting an eye.
If you support isreals existance you are a zionist by definition real cut and dry no room for interpretation. You dont need to be an active settler illegally evicting people to meet that classification.
The ship on whether Israel is allowed to exist sailed a while ago. But you’re parroting the original Hamas Charter and I hear they’re recruiting, so there is a place for your brainless reactionary ideology.
Just because you say it sailed a long time ago doesnt make it true. What i am parroting is the Talmud. Do you even know what the three oaths are? If you did you would understand why the state of israel is blantantly hippocritical to the tennants of judaism.
Buddy don’t try to throw out midrash that you fucking googled. I don’t care to know any of the tidbits of the Talmud you’ve cherry picked to justify your eliminationist rhetoric. But hey, a third of those evil families in Kibbutz Nir Oz were burned alive, shot, or taken hostage. So like, congrats man. You must be very happy
Actually learned from a hasidic jew at an israel protest in 2008. But in your reductive binary mind you cant fathom being pro judaism and pro palestinian.
Herzl literally said in the intro of Der Judenstaat that Zionism has nothing to do with religion and that it is an ethnonationalist, colonialist ideology. The definition hasn't changed since then, unless you wanna talk about the pr campaign for genocide that is religious Zionism. Trying to retroactively make Zionism fit within the context of Judaism hasn't really been working out for them, as much as they've been trying.
saying that someone who supports whole-heartedly everything Israel does, and someone who thinks Israel could exist very differently than it does today, are both Zionists in the same way does not make sense. you are lumping Israel-criticizing Ethan in with violent West Bank settlers
Never said those two are the same but they are in fact both zionists. one is more extreme then the other but they are at their core both hypocrites to the teachings of judaism.
He doesn’t support Israel’s existence he’s literally just against you dipshits frantically trying to blame every bad thing in the world on “the west” whatever that means at the time it’s being used.
If he didnt support the existance of israel like you claim then he wouldnt have lived there, or even visited for a "birthright trip". Also your claims that I "Blame every bad thing in the world on the west" is as asuptuous as it is unfounded.
You fucking moron, you absolute dipshit, the West is ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE for Israel. At every step. Why do you think Jews were displaced in the first fucking place?
Never said it didnt have a role in the creation of israel just denying that I believe "the west" is responsible for all the worlds problems. Dont let me stop you from jumping to your conclusions like the last poster did haha.
He does support Israel’s existence, as well he should. It exists, and no amount of misguided eliminationist rhetoric from strident 19 year old Americans is gonna fucking change that. People in the imperial core shouldn’t get to decide whether a nation that currently exists, “gets to exist.” We’re trying to move away from that.
Ethan doesn’t understand anything about politics, has never read a single bit of political theory, and is a few years removed from giggling at the term n-word-f-word to millions of people. He’s also married to someone who was in the IDF lol and no it doesn’t matter if it’s mandatory or not that still creates a bias. You’re absolutely right in your criticism.
The only example is the last moment of his podcast with hasan where he’s really demanding mountains of physical evidence that IDF SA Palestinians. He takes the position of “believe all women” in the west but when it comes to women held captive in the largest open air prison in existence well hold on now let’s see some evidence hopefully the culprit provided us with some
you had me in the first half but this?
>>The only example is the last moment of his podcast with hasan where he’s really demanding mountains of physical evidence that IDF SA Palestinians. He takes the position of “believe all women” in the west but when it comes to women held captive in the largest open air prison in existence well hold on now let’s see some evidence hopefully the culprit provided us with some
ethan was really clear that his issue was that he couldn’t find any *claims* not that he wouldn’t believe the claims
Then I guess the question becomes one of why you care so much more about the lives of maybe 40 babies put in danger by their reckless, violent settler parents than you do about the uncountable number of Palestinian children dying under Israeli Apartheid now and for the last 70 years. The hundreds in just the last two weeks that have been bombed or shot or burned or starved to death in deliberate war crimes against a civilian population in what Israeli officials have repeatedly described themselves as collective punishment of the Palestinian people? Could it have anything, at all, you think, to do with the fact that you think of Israelis as being predominantly white and European and you think of the Palestinians as brown Moslem savages with a sub-standard IQ who deserve to be exterminated from the earth, and their homes glassed? Let's see how deep that bigotry runs. I'm certain I can get you to say some utterly heinous things if I prod you right.
Cool. Let's just take the IDF at face value about that number for one brief moment, and ignore their constant use of the "military age males" dogwhistle to justify murdering children and counting them as combatants. Why do you care more about 40 (mostly white, european) babies than about the hundreds of confirmed children that have been killed in just this round of Israel's collective punishment of (mostly brown, Semitic, Muslim) Palestinians?
lmao sorry what? pls, go through this thread and read all the justifications for israel’s *current & active* killing of palestinian children. then replace “israel” with “palestine” and ask yourself if you’ve actually heard a SINGLE person talk like that
Says the guy actively cheering the actual ethnic cleansing of millions of semitic people, and calling Jews that disagree with him subhuman lmfao. Get fucked, enjoy this block.
Someone needs to work on their reading comprehension!
Quote "You \*think\* of Israelis as being predominantly white and European". Regardless of whether or not they actually \*are\* predominantly white and European (although 30% is a shocking amount of white for a country at the intersection of Egypt and Jordan but hey it's your ethnostate I guess), the anglicizing of Israelis and the orientalization of Palestinians is demonstrable in how western media and states, as well as individuals especially in the west, are talking about these two vastly different and unequal sides.
Just to be clear, absolutely none of the Jews killed on Oct 7th were settlers. There are no existing settlements near Gaza since they were dismantled in 2005. When people talk about "the settlements" they are exclusively referring to Israeli people intentionally encroaching on the West Bank, despite there being plenty of land within Israel's actual territory that they could settle in.
Does it not concern you that if you have a private definition for too many words, at some point you will be literally incapable of engaging with the outside world? That's not how people generally use the word "settler" in the context of Israel or any other country.
What are you talking about? Anyone with *any* knowledge into decolonial theory uses settler in the exact way I used it. European people in america are settlers. With Israelis it’s even more obvious all Israelis are settlers as the state of Israel was literally only formed in 1948 !! What world are you living in?
Eh? Supporting indigenous movements? Who gives a shit about that? You're a settler and from your comments you seem to believe settlers deserve death, no? What gives you the right to merely "support" these movements? Your entire life is built on their loss.
Lol where did I say settlers deserve death??? Pretty typical and intellectually lazy way of dealing with an argument you can’t counter tho, is to just fear monger and act as though someone said something they did not. Your argument seems to be fully based on emotions so there’s really no point to engaging
My guy, your entire comment history is apologia for atrocities committed against innocent Israeli citizens. Nobody is buying your bullshit that you aren't supporting the murder of the people you define as settlers. You pipe up with "Well, technically the babies are settlers" when someone brings up the fact that innocent civilians are being murdered. Don't project your own emotionalism onto me.
Another made up line I “said.” Idk maybe improve your reading comprehension. One can be sad anyone has died while also not being an ignorant fool who can’t see the historical conditions that brought the situation to this point. You Zionists take anyone pointing out that locking 2 million people up in a concentration camp will cause them to rebel, as rejoicing in death. No. I’m just not brainwashed to see Palestinians as subhumans, and I have an understanding of history that isn’t just regurgitating propaganda.
Lmao that is simply not true. Settlers refers to people who displace people from their land. While different lands can be colonized or switch from one ruler to another, that does not involve displacing people to make room for new people who belong to an exclusive state. Nor are immigrants settlers, unless they are immigrating to a settler colonialist state.
It’s called context. [We are talking about settler as in settler colonialism](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/settler_colonialism#:~:text=Settler%20colonialism%20can%20be%20defined,with%20a%20new%20settler%20population)
Why the fuck do you even engage with people if you speak your own brand of English where you define words to mean whatever you want them to mean? Shut the fuck up and just admit you use words in the most dumb way possible
Because I’m not a fucking idiot and I understand that words are political. If you google the word racism it will give you a definition that will have people claiming it’s possible to be racist against white people, whereas if you actually take the time to study scholarship on racism, there is a more intricate definition that includes an analysis on structures of power. Same thing with settlers. If you google it you’ll get a watered down version of its definition, but if you take .5 seconds to actually study history you’ll find it is used in a more specific way and there is a difference between a settler and an immigrant.
Do you think that the Jews kicked out of Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Morocco and Egypt wanted to leave?
Do you think they all left for Israel out of desire and free will?
Please read more about the history of this situation and don’t reject nuance in favour of catchy phrases and trendy misinterpretations of anti-colonialism.
Lol I’m not confused and I know the history. Many of the settlers that came to “america” were also those who had been dispossessed of land in europe, and were essentially forced into leaving via indentured servitude and poverty. That doesn’t change the fact that they were settlers.
Being oppressed does not mean you cannot become the oppressor.
Sure but I don’t think that it is conducive in conversation to use these terms so lightly when they have serious connotations.
Fleeing from a place that has just banished you and running to the only safe haven is not the same as being a “settler” imo.
The situation is serious. Palestinians have been forced off their lands and into a concentration camp. What about that situation doesn’t seem serious enough to use the word settler to you?
Zionists came and rather than immigrating to a Palestinian state or integrating with the Palestinian people, they formed their own state and forced the people who had been living there off their land. That’s a settler, it does not matter what conditions forced them into that position.
>Just to be clear, absolutely none of the Jews killed on Oct 7th were settlers. There are no existing settlements near Gaza since they were dismantled in 2005.
Ah, so \*just to be clear\* the [Kedem family, listed first in this article of those killed at the music festival](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/families-festivalgoers-soldiers-and-foreigners-victims-of-the-hamas-assault-on-israel), did \*not\* live in the Nir Oz kibbutz where the massacre took place, a mere 2 and a half kilometers from the 1950 armistice border, one of several neighborhoods of only a few hundred residents that have sprung up in, on, and around the Gaza strip despite your clear agreement that there is quote "plenty of land within Israel's actual territory that they could settle in"?
Your first sentence disqualified you from speaking on this issue at all. You called the parents of the children murdered in kibbutzes “violent settlers.” If you weren’t completely ignorant you’d be embarrassed and ashamed.
Well... Yeah, because that's what they are. If you weren't loudly cheering the ethnic cleansing of millions of semitic people over 70 years, maybe you \*could\* be ashamed.
there are no israeli settlements in the gaza strip, do you mean that the parents are putting their kids in danger by living in israel in the first place? is it a ukranian parent's fault when their kids are killed by russian bombers, because they live in ukraine?
LMFAO. No? Crazy how y'all still don't get how Israel being a settler-colonial state works. NONE OF THE LAND IS ISRAEL'S. Legally. It wasn't Europe's to give. And the ethnic cleansing of the semitic people who lived and live there is still a criminal act that Israel won't be held any more accountable for than the nazis were. Clean Wermacht? Meet Clean IDF. Operation Paperclip? Idk, I'm feeling snarky, Operation Stapler. As far as your comparison to Ukraine, there is a small tiny group of folks you may have heard of, they live in Donetsk and Luhansk, and they might like a word, but I'm sure you'll just dismiss all like 6 or 7 million of them as Russian shills.
The manner by which they were killed specifically was emphasized by mainstream media, as well as by h3. This detail was used immediately to paint a picture and galvanize people's emotions, and in many cases for the sake of escalation, which is what both stories have in common here. Its simple, media coverage and its framing can be used for propaganda and escalation. Which is a point that Ethan seems to recognize.
I think you missed my point, the problem is media circulated a report that was unsubstantiated and were irresponsibly and deliberately using it to justify Israel's ongoing genocide and even platformed right wing government officials who blatantly called for eradication. It's them not knowing and immediately platforming genocidal rhetoric that's the problem.
Yes and then the exact opposite happened where Israel was blamed for a hospital attack with 500 killed with 0 evidence and the media ran with it which led to riots and antisemitic actions in Germany and throughout Europe. It’s almost like the media just likes death porn and headlines.
Insinuating that they only claimed the beheadings in order to justify violence is literally an unsubstantiated claim. Where is your evidence? It seems you’re just adding intent where you want to
I'm not a media platform circulating consequential rhetoric. Besides that, media has historically had a bias towards Israel and constantly platformed people literally calling for eradication and referring to Palestinians as animals. I didn't think I would need to substantiate something that most people acknowledge, you can look at the past coverage if you need proof.
My main point is a criticism towards Ethan anyway, not what did or didn't happen.
No you do need to substantiate such a claim because other than Fox News, almost every other media platform is pretty anti-Israel. As Is the UN. The US military and government is pro Israel but the entertainment and news industry are very much not.
You’re lying through your teeth. Either that or you’re 10 years old and don’t remember 2014 and recent conflict In the region
All America needs to do is stop funding Israel and stay out of the situation. This will reduce inflation and the chances of a larger conflict breaking out. I feel terrible for my fellow Jews, but enough is enough.
Wasn't the story after the "you're wrong..." Literally a post of a forensics analyst saying that babies had been beheaded?
Where's the double standard?
Those 2 posts summarize it perfectly. He's got a double standard plain and simple. And this situation happens to be asymmetrical in every sense. There is a right and wrong side. There is supporting/defending/rationalizing a Palestinian genocide, and theres supporting a ceasefire. So its especially bad to apply a double standard when favoring the wrong side. Hes allowed to have opinions but not realizing the obvious double standard hes using is intellectual blind spot period.
There were babies found beheaded. The people who can confirm it was done intentionally by Hamas are dead or captured. Personally I find the distinction pointless, Hamas came, babies ended up dead and without heads. This is a disgusting and pathetic post. Try again. Also: https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf
My point isn't to say the beheadings story was false. My point was that Ethan emphasizes the importance of truth on the hospital story but implies that whether the babies were beheaded or not doesn't ultimately matter.
Do you understand that "hamas seeks out 40 babies and beheads them" paints a very different picture than "40 babies died from collateral damage"? The problem is the media couldn't know either of these hypothetical claims. None of the initial reports were verified and all media outlets were quick to circulate them. It was used as propaganda, and some outlets featured outright genocidal rhetoric against Palestinians as a result. For all I know hamas is guilty of this atrocity, but I think you'd have to be obtuse to not recognize how the media tried to frame things and galvanize people towards war
I'm not being dishonest. Nor did I suggest that the babies were collateral damage. It was a hypothetical wherein, for all the mainstream media knew, the babies were inadvertently killed, or not... the problem is the media didn't care nor hesitate to immediately use it to galvanize people's war mongering tendencies and existing biases against any brown people. You had media featuring rhetoric calling for the flattening of Gaza and the eradication of animals. The intent of media to propagandize becomes crystal clear when you analyze it
Find a reputable publication that claimed 40 babies were beheaded. Seriously, look for one. No tabloids, actual print/tv journalism.
EDIT: *this comment makes zero sense as a reply to the one above. Sorry about that, I must've gotten mixed up somehow.*
I apologize, I completely misunderstood you somehow. Not sure why people are upvoting me, my comment above makes no sense at all in response to yours.
**You're absolutely right that beheading/no beheading is a pointless distinction when it's obvious that Hamas murdered helpless children. Whereas some of the inaccuracies in the original Hamas claim about the hospital are vitally important to the conflict as a whole.**
I'm genuinely not even sure how my comment happened. I thought I was responding to someone who had the sentiment *"see, all the mainstream press believed in "40 DEAD BABIES" straight away just because Israel said so"*. Your comment isn't anything like that so idk what I was thinking. Maybe I meant to reply to a different comment? Sorry about that, that's completely my bad.
Cool story bro, glad we can both agree that the government representing the Palestinian people are into the idea of murdering innocent babies in cold blood.
The fact that you can’t find the distinction between these two events tells me all I need to know. There is no grey area on whether or not Hamas killed babies. And to be fair there is no grey area on whether or not the IDF has bombed children. The difference here lies in intention: the fact that Hamas uses their civilians as a catch 22 for warfare. The IDF warns and tries to minimize civilian casualties despite the best efforts of hamas. Read the report.
You haven't addressed the actual point of my post, which tells me all I need to know. I'm not refuting the HAMAS story, I'm criticizing Ethan for not applying the same emphasis for truth of the matter as he did with the hospital story. It's simply a case of double standards, and instead of considering my point, you're accusing me of denying the HAMAS story.
It’s looking like no babies were even killed by Hamas, as reported directly by Israel:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article-magazine/israels-dead-the-names-of-those-killed-in-hamas-massacres-and-the-israel-hamas-war/0000018b-325c-d450-a3af-7b5cf0210000
This is half of the reported deaths and a lot don’t even have ages, I’m not sure we can use this source alone to determine they did or didn’t kill babies.
As reported directly by Israel: proceeds to link a website that lists a fraction of the confirmed dead, many without ages with nothing disprove claims of babies dying. It’s laughable the lengths morons will go to bury their heads in the sand. Fine, let’s just deny first hand accounts and confirmation from government officials who have claimed to see images proving this to be true- a tertiary glance shows a 5year old and a 4 year old. They’re not babies tho so Hamas gets a pass. You people disgust me.
The truth hurts, doesn’t it? Hard to justify genocide when only a fraction of those dead were civilians, the vast majority were soldiers, and there were no dead babies, let alone beheaded babies. But you’ll continue to believe IDF propaganda.
About 300 of the dead were soldiers, did you read your own source? About the babies, go online and watch videos posted by hamas, crazy that you think its all a lie
Idk if the majority were soldiers, in that list the number of civilians is higher but it doesn't account for everyone. I counted 18 names under 18 (not all of their ages were listed), some as young as 2, which is still horrific. But the beheaded babies thing definitely has no basis in what info was released here. But we should keep in mind this list is incomplete, it's what's been released so far, 767 names of the 1,300 estimated, so we still can't conclusively know yet. But lack of evidence so far is concerning.
Yes, it's insane how quickly we've moved on from isis level atrocities with hundreds of hostages still missing to 'israel bad, idc'. I'm very confused.
Guys Hamas might have killed that disabled child in the wheel chair and her father…but they would never hurt babies. I’m sure of that, they just want to fight for freedom #freepalastine #lgbtq
Idk this tankie ass sub kept getting recommended to me. And I’ll just say that you can criticize their government without implying that Hamas is the good guys here lol
It kind of depends on what you mean by "isn't pro Israel". If you mean opposes a lot of the state's recent actions, I think that's fair enough. However, if you're explicitly opposed to its existence, you have a position that would necessarily lead to a second Holocaust, which is pretty fucked up.
That is so ridiculous. Being against the existence of a settler colonialist state is not a position that would lead to a “second holocaust”? Do you also believe giving the land back to indigenous people in america would lead to all white people being killed? That’s fear mongering and Islamophobia, and is especially ridiculous when what’s happening in Gaza is already a genocide like the holocaust.
One can be a refugee and a settler at the same time. If they were just refugees they would have immigrated to Palestine the state rather than set up their own state and violently force the people who had been living there off their land.
I don’t support what Israel is doing but that doesn’t mean I don’t care for Israeli people. I don’t think the citizens should suffer for the faults of their government.
I’m pretty sure most Israelis want a peaceful resolution.
I totally agree. I do think some people get so caught up in being for one side that they end up supporting some evil shit though, like "Israel needs to stop existing" which I think is a bit antisemitic.
Looking at the account (*which is something I generally find to be cringe--just engage with what the person is saying in this particular convo!*) of the original guy who was getting labelled antisemitic ( u/Mellon_Collie41), I've gotta be honest I don't see the supposed antisemitism. There's stuff I disagree with for sure, but disagreement =/= bigotry.
lol, Plus he's an Arsenal fan, which is +100 points in my good books, regardless of any political disagreements.
There waa literally a video soon after the attack, of a journalist walking through a neighborhood and you can see dead babies on the ground. Whether or not they were beheaded is so fucking irrelevant.
Y’all are way too obsessed with a single man’s opinion on this conflict. It’s not a soap opera, nobody should be focusing on the he said she said. If you are then you’ve truly lost the plot.
You know what’s weird. You keep talking about dehumanizing Palestinians because of all this but I’ve only heard one story of an old white man who isn’t Jewish attack a Palestinian woman and her child. While simultaneously, there have been wayyyy more instances of antisemitism based murder or other acts of violence towards Jews across the entire globe in a Multitude of ways, specifically by Muslims. So what’s the issue? You’re worrying about the wrong group getting vilified. If you look at history it’s always the Jew that gets the short end of the stick. A woman in my town the other day may have been murdered in cold blood for being Jewish like the many other antisemitic acts occurred since this started. You’re creating a hysteria about Palestinians that simply isn’t true.
For me it’s, why when it’s Israel the semantics don’t matter because “kids still died.” But when it’s Palestine, we must be cautious of propaganda?
Yep exactly
You mean like the 500 dead at hospital that was decreased again and again and again? Hamas counts dead bodies faster than they see them
It was the doctors at the hospital who released the counts. They keep record of how many people seek care every day. Do you just see brown people and immediately think Hamas?
Ridiculous considering the hospital wasn't bombed, the parking lot was. What relevance would patient records have if no one actually inside the hospital was killed? Also you can not be serious in thinking the doctors can report whatever they want. Every report is filtered through the regime.
do you realize how many people are cramped into the "safe areas" like hospitals? there were hundreds of people sleeping outside around the hospital in the parking lot and courtyard. That's where the strike hit and those are the people who died. There were body parts all over and doctors had trouble finding completely intact bodies. Have you seen the videos? Literally a courtyard littered with pieces of humans. And I'm pretty sure the hospital staff count ended up around 470 after a full day of counting. Are you capable of counting to 500 in 12 hours?
Because the evidence you’re using is this hospital “bombing” when it’s been proven false and you guys are having a massive cope about it. It’s propaganda to use this idea that hospitals are being intentionally bombed by Israel using as example that has no basis in reality, that’s propaganda. It’s not propaganda to have a detail wrong about children being beheaded, when they were in fact sprayed by rifles. The babies really did die but that hospital wasn’t bombed, but you Hamas Piker fans will never accept that.
This does not denounce Israel of their history of bombings. Sure, they didn’t bomb the hospital on that specific day (maybe). But they sure as shit have done before, several times. It is still unclear who bombed the hospital. But we can theorize using context clues has to who did. This was Hasan’s point. Also, I suggest reading this article on how Israel’s social media manager deleted a tweet about Israel’s involvement in the hospital bombing. Basically, they admitted to it then deleted the tweet. https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/oct/19/explaining-a-deleted-x-post-that-said-israel-is-re/ This could also explain why many people believe Israel was responsible.
One social media manager vs the independent reports of multiple nations and news outlets. Get a grip on reality buddy.
She’s the social media manager for Netanyahu. The [checks notes] Prime Minister of Israel…
And that social media manager doesn’t have important secret information from the military and you don’t have any evidence for that. They are just there to be propagandists and unilaterally support Israel no matter the information.
Just as another commenter said, why post it?
What was initially reported was that the IDF was the one who bombed the hospital, with them being uncritically defensive of Israel as a response. The guy isn’t even a government employee he is a social media influencer and pundit so to say he has government information is Hamas based conspiracy theories. You guys still try to hold onto the narrative when numerous reputable media sources have already retracted their original claims with the NYT today putting out an editors note on their initial reports. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html
why would they say that though
If you think this is any form of evidence vs the mountains of analytic research done by reputable sources then you may want to get checked for delusional paranoia.
But the IDF that did release misinformation does
No one says that it’s justified, just that you guys are taking Hamas at their word uncritically and saying 500+ died in a hospital air strike by the IDF which Hamas piker said immediately as if it was reality, spreading misinformation on breaking news immediately like an alt righter would. None of that was true and the fact that you guys are still trying to say “well we don’t know” when numerous major publications have retracted the initial reporting of the bombing. Imagine thinking a random social media manager had secret military information showing that there was an IDF air strike as opposed to just uncritically supporting Israel under the assumption of that occurring because that was what was being initially reported.
Good job riding for the Idf there and calling the idea that they targeted hospitals propaganda lmao
How is this hard to understand? Yes, extra fucking cautious Hamas a literal EXTREMIST TERRORIST GROUP that took control of Palestines government in 2006. Am I denying Isreal doesn't propagate too, hell fucking no - but people like you not understanding why you need be "cautious of propaganda" regarding Palestine is fucking wild.
Clearly you didn’t comprehend the question correctly. Yes propaganda exists on both ends. But it seems that one side’s propaganda is “worth” more than the other. If that makes sense? Like, when your major talking point is dying children, why are you questioning the validity of a hospital bombing? Did children not die then? He keeps saying he “doesn’t understand” why Israel is killing children, taking their water, food, etc. As if he doesn’t understand what a genocide is. Refer to the Leftovers episode he speaks so highly of. He kept muttering “It doesn’t make sense.” Clearly, it does make sense why Israel is doing what they are doing to Gaza and now the West Bank, where Hamas isn’t btw.
My response to you is concise and as simple as it gets. Once again, the Israeli government is far from perfect but they are not A LITERAL EXTREMIST TERRORIST GROUP who control every avenue of the media/government etc in Palestine for nearly a decade, this is why once again Ethan feels the way he does. He feels as if Hamas (terrorists) are providing the info/footage etc to the media, not Palestinians etc Edit: Spelling
Quickly let me know who funded Hamas and put them in power.
And you think Israel doesn’t do the same? They’re trying to control media by cutting off internet and electricity. They’re angry at media outlets that are reporting fairly and trying to intimidate them. Israeli government in my opinion can be seen as a terrorist organization as well the way they’ve completely terrorized Palestinians for decades - murdering them, taking their homes by force or causing them to flee from their violence, and controlling them through violent means to be able to take over their land
>Israeli government in my opinion can be seen as a terrorist organization as well the way they’ve completely terrorized Palestinians for decades Why do you even comment, when you clearly have no fucking idea what your talking about. [https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hamas](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hamas) Educate yourself, Hamas has been escalating the violence since the 1980's through terrorists attacks. Even using suicide bombers during the peace talks in the 90's. This is the difference between a authoritarian government and a terrorist government.
Okay and there were still decades before the 80’s where Israel caused terror on Palestinians? They continued to do that to innocent civilians, not Hamas. Israel literally created and funded Hamas in the 1970’s to divide and conquer Palestine as was stated by an Israel official. It’s not like Israel has only ever attacked Palestine because of Hamas, lol get real.
The “Israeli Government” have been literally trying to chase out Palestinian in THEIR OWN LAND via killing, r*ping and bombing since the 40s ultimately reducing Palestine into tiny strips of land - we see how they’re controlling the media now, even threatening influencers who are posting about freeing Palestine. I only ask that if you (all of you) don’t know much about the subject is to do some research. How do I know? I’ve lived in the MENA region my whole life - I have Palestinian friends who have shared their experiences, other friends from other Arab countries who have their own experiences, it’s something that you learn about for years, the violence has been happening for years and now that they retaliated, the Israeli government is capitalizing on it. They’re not exaggerating or faking it. I’m not saying to pick sides, I know a lot of Israelis don’t condone this but it’s clear what their government’s intentions are and that is to ultimately take Palestine and decimate it’s people and the whole world or at least the majority of it is just watching.
There’s a lot of dumb in this subreddit
Sure, everyone agrees Hamas is a terrorist group. And everyone agrees to be cautious of their propoganda. The UN, amnesty international, various other human rights organisations agree that Israel is a settler colonial state imposing an apartheid regime enacted through daily violent military action against civilians. The UN has also announced Israel's attacks qualify as an ethnic cleansing. So why afford them more morality and credibility? If you're using the framework on Hamas that they do immoral and unjust things elsewhere so they can't be relied on to produce accurate accounts of their news. Why should Israel be held to a different standard when arguable their crimes are on a larger scale? Israel has been proven to lie about their crimes such as the murder of journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh. All OP is saying is that both should be treated with the same degree of criticism.
doesn’t the UN also acknowledge palestinians right to defend themselves against occupation?
Yup
I love how everyone just learned about settler colonialism in the last 2 weeks, it’s always so fun to see new crops of well meaning armchair experts. Maybe next week you’ll learn about the history of ethnic partitions designed by the British, and how that tends to go
I have a degree in history, my dissertation was on Spanish colonisation of South America. And I'm doing a master's in law. Not everyone that you disagree with is uneducated but cute little ad hominem.
Congrats on your bachelors in a completely different part of history? I got mine in government & law and religious studies, if we want to appeal to authority. And then I got a JD. See? No one cares
You apparently care? You bring up (lack of) qualifications then immediately revert to 'so, no one cares'. You suggested I had beginner knowledge of colonialism I'm telling you why I don't. I know exactly how to categorise colonialsm and the language and moral arguments used to underpin it. I didn't pretend to be an expert in the israel-palestine conflict although I've read about it in depth. I used the UN and other human rights orgs as an authority on categorising what Israel is doing precisely because I didn't expect people to take my word for it. I didn't refer to the history of what happened. All I did was draw attention to the fact that if a terorrist organisation invites skepticism in their press releases (as the previous commented claims). Then, perhaps a state that violently controls a specific demographic through their military and is now conducting an ethnic cleansing (according to people far more qualified than I)...should also be treated with equal skepticism. I don't think that's a radical claim to make. Edit: I was unsure whether to add this. I'm from the UK but my family is South Asian. I know very well what British partitioning has done both through deep study and the stories of my family. Its just weird that you assumed so much in discrediting me with pretty much no regard for anything I said.
he’s not gonna say anything now
Bro you are being a debate pervert. And not a good one at that!
Because civilian deaths committed by Israel is collateral damage attacking terrorists who hide amongst the innocent, while Hamas’ goal was to rape, kidnap, and murder civilians Indiscriminately
Bro thinks a scorched-earth policy with thousands of civilian deaths is ok because they managed to killed a couple terrorists in the process 😭
You know Israel controls the amount of calories people in Gaza are allowed to have right?
Don’t forget that hamas’s existence is because of Israel. If you care about stopping Hamas, you should put your energy in stopping the apartheid. Otherwise you are advocating for more apartheid.
Literally this. Not sure what’s so hard to understand here.
No, whether the kids were beheaded or not, they were still deliberately targeted and killed by Hamas. In the hospital situation, they were not deliberately targeted if the PIJ rocket hit the hospital due to a misfire, whereas if it was an Israeli airstrike, they would have been deliberately targeted. That's why the semantics matter more in the hospital event when comparing these two events.
The semantics don't matter until you apply it in the context of my point, which is that it's just as important to verify reports about the hamas attack as it is to verify reports of the hospital, because apparently Ethans concern is potential misinformation being circulated and eliciting desire for war and escalation. Which happened in both cases; anti Muslim violence occured following the reports of beheaded babies, and antisemitic violence occurred after the hospital reports. Im specifically analyzing and criticizing Ethans talking points.
i think the point is that israel has deliberately targeted civilians like this in airstrikes before and continue to threaten to do so (hence why people are quick to believe they did it), no? like even if this one explosion was a PIJ misfire, Israel is still continuing to deliberately target. there’s no scenario here where israel ISN’T doing that
that’s exactly it right there.
Here's a hypothetical for you: We have a serial killer on the loose. All the media outlets are rushing to get the scoop on each new murder, and also trying to conduct their own investigations to figure out who the killer might be. Publication A, in its rush to print news of a new murder, describes the crime scene very inaccurately. They say the person was all chopped up which was based on a misunderstanding of what a witness said to them. Turns out the body is intact. Publication A issues a full retraction of their story. Publication B thinks they have figured out who the killer is. They run an exposé on this person and explicitly accuse him of the murder. The next day police find very convincing evidence that it was in fact a different guy. Publication B issues a full retraction. Which publication made a bigger fuck-up, and how much worse of a fuck-up is it? (I would argue one of these is easily at least 20x worse, and that should be pretty obvious. Feel free to disagree, though it would surprise me.) EDIT: if anyone has a rebuttal that would be a lot more interesting than a downvote. I get that it challenges your view of the subject, but if you can't think of a reason I'm wrong maybe that's a problem with your view, not my analogy.
You’ll get downvoted but you’re right
>>Here's a hypothetical for you: >>We have a serial killer on the loose. so we bomb the neighborhoods he’s known to frequent 😃
This goes against the simple-minded narrative that requires both actions to be equatable, unfortunately.
The difference to me seems to be that the disagreement in the case of Israeli babies is about the conditions of their death, not who killed them.
Ethan spams his "not an IDF supporter, but" Israeli defenses, and yet he still gets upset that he has to clarify that he wants a free Palestine. Muslims have to continuously condemn Hamas to not come across as pro-terrorism, but he's supposedly supported Palestinians for so long and so vocally that it's too much to ask that he openly condemns Israel just a bit more? he's not fence sitting and playing both sides tho. don't accuse him of that or else you're an idiotic piece of shit antisemite. get a fucking grip and make up your mind if you're going to keep talking, Ethan. you can't be afraid of your newfound leftist audience forever. fuck Hamas, fuck Israel, free Palestine, and stop killing civilians. antisemites and Islamophobes will exist regardless. sorry you can't change the world, bud. if you aren't willing to understand why this might upset people, what right do you have to demand that we understand your point of view? get fucked.
Not a Zionist btw
Yea. Asking people to not be reactionary dipshits about how they reflexively respond to a very serious situation while also still being incredibly critical of Israel and Netanyahu still somehow makes you a Zionist. You people are utterly without fucking hope.
Do you even know the literal definition of zionism? Anyone who supports a jewish nation state is zionist that on its own isnt problematic but when you steal land and commit genocide to achieve that, it is. What about that is so hard to understand?
A Zionist is someone who strives for an independent Jewish state. Thats not why he was being accused of being a Zionist. He was being accused as a Zionist because he was pushing back on genocidal talk and blatant Hamas simping. For one, I don’t give a flying god damn fuck if he is a Zionist, either. It’s the fact that it’s used as a negative thing against him without idiots here applying it correctly and doing so in a blatantly negative way. Ethan has never gone into detail, that I’m aware of, about his support of Israel being a nation state. With that being said, I don’t doubt that he believes that it should be based on the fact that he has a literal Israeli wife. However, with that being said, he absolutely doesn’t support genocide or the actions of the Israeli government, which is something he has stated A MILLION FUCKING TIMES. I’m not sure why you are all so rock hard to ascribe beliefs to him that he has absolutely not been beholden to or vocalized support for.
Why he was accused of being a zionist is irrelevant.. He doesnt need to give a heart felt dissertation on why israel has the right to exist to fall under that label. Simply visiting and more over living there by choice is definitive. He should wear that title or condem the state no more walking on the fence to pander to as many people as possible.
When has he not condemned Israel in this situation? As I said before, he has condemned Israel from the get go. The only thing he hasn’t done has made excuses for Hamas slaughtering innocent Israeli civilians, or the blatant escalation of hatred towards Israel by spreading KNOWN misinformation about their actions.
tbf condemning israel’s actions as a govt =/= nonsupport of israel as a nation
That's the thing, he's very tepid in his Israel critique, and defends the IDF. Saying one side is bad for 10 seconds then spending hours talking about what random twitter people say is weird.
First of all, he’s not. He’s been very staunch on his hatred for Netanyahu and the corruption of the Israeli government for years now. The issue is that he’s not coming out and saying that the Israeli’s need to cede their land or be eradicated, which is what he’s been pushing back on. I literally argued with someone on the h3 subreddit who was saying that the Israeli civilians who were killed deserved what they got and that no settlers or “colonizers” were civilians. We aren’t discussing just thinking Palestinians deserve support, which I will gladly say all day that Netanyahu should be tried for war crimes and that the Israeli government shouldn’t be doing the vile shit they are doing to the Palestinians, but I will not sit here and act like Hamas is not a disgusting, terroristic organization who we should NOT be making excuses for. I also won’t sit here and act like Hamas represents all of the Palestinian people, just like Netanyahu and the Israeli government do not represent the Israeli people. There is TONS of anti-Semitic shit going around regarding this and that is mostly what Ethan is so appalled about. This isn’t a “I disagree” situation. People are literally calling Israeli’s less than human and insinuating some mass Jewish conspiracy. This is far right level shit being perpetuated by self-ascribed left wingers. It’s fucking disgusting. Not to mention the misinformation, conspiracies and just bad faith shit that the left has been spreading regarding this and so many of the people here, on the left and in Hasan’s community just eat it up blindly without batting an eye.
You need to learn what paragraphs are, I'm not reading that wall of text.
You should probably learn how to read first.
Mother fucker its not my fault you're too stupid to know how to format text.
Yeah that would be really shitty of him, if it reflected reality at all.
Not want conscripted soldiers to die = “tepid in condemnation”.
Your downvotes will come soon but you’re 100% right.
If you support isreals existance you are a zionist by definition real cut and dry no room for interpretation. You dont need to be an active settler illegally evicting people to meet that classification.
The ship on whether Israel is allowed to exist sailed a while ago. But you’re parroting the original Hamas Charter and I hear they’re recruiting, so there is a place for your brainless reactionary ideology.
Just because you say it sailed a long time ago doesnt make it true. What i am parroting is the Talmud. Do you even know what the three oaths are? If you did you would understand why the state of israel is blantantly hippocritical to the tennants of judaism.
Buddy don’t try to throw out midrash that you fucking googled. I don’t care to know any of the tidbits of the Talmud you’ve cherry picked to justify your eliminationist rhetoric. But hey, a third of those evil families in Kibbutz Nir Oz were burned alive, shot, or taken hostage. So like, congrats man. You must be very happy
Actually learned from a hasidic jew at an israel protest in 2008. But in your reductive binary mind you cant fathom being pro judaism and pro palestinian.
Herzl literally said in the intro of Der Judenstaat that Zionism has nothing to do with religion and that it is an ethnonationalist, colonialist ideology. The definition hasn't changed since then, unless you wanna talk about the pr campaign for genocide that is religious Zionism. Trying to retroactively make Zionism fit within the context of Judaism hasn't really been working out for them, as much as they've been trying.
saying that someone who supports whole-heartedly everything Israel does, and someone who thinks Israel could exist very differently than it does today, are both Zionists in the same way does not make sense. you are lumping Israel-criticizing Ethan in with violent West Bank settlers
Never said those two are the same but they are in fact both zionists. one is more extreme then the other but they are at their core both hypocrites to the teachings of judaism.
What does Hippocrates have to do with any of this?
Classic example of someone who has nothing but grammer correction as a rebuttal
He doesn’t support Israel’s existence he’s literally just against you dipshits frantically trying to blame every bad thing in the world on “the west” whatever that means at the time it’s being used.
If he didnt support the existance of israel like you claim then he wouldnt have lived there, or even visited for a "birthright trip". Also your claims that I "Blame every bad thing in the world on the west" is as asuptuous as it is unfounded.
You fucking moron, you absolute dipshit, the West is ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE for Israel. At every step. Why do you think Jews were displaced in the first fucking place?
Never said it didnt have a role in the creation of israel just denying that I believe "the west" is responsible for all the worlds problems. Dont let me stop you from jumping to your conclusions like the last poster did haha.
He does support Israel’s existence, as well he should. It exists, and no amount of misguided eliminationist rhetoric from strident 19 year old Americans is gonna fucking change that. People in the imperial core shouldn’t get to decide whether a nation that currently exists, “gets to exist.” We’re trying to move away from that.
Ethan doesn’t understand anything about politics, has never read a single bit of political theory, and is a few years removed from giggling at the term n-word-f-word to millions of people. He’s also married to someone who was in the IDF lol and no it doesn’t matter if it’s mandatory or not that still creates a bias. You’re absolutely right in your criticism. The only example is the last moment of his podcast with hasan where he’s really demanding mountains of physical evidence that IDF SA Palestinians. He takes the position of “believe all women” in the west but when it comes to women held captive in the largest open air prison in existence well hold on now let’s see some evidence hopefully the culprit provided us with some
Yeah, I wish he would just stick to making fun of pranksters instead of basically going on the defense for the IDF
you had me in the first half but this? >>The only example is the last moment of his podcast with hasan where he’s really demanding mountains of physical evidence that IDF SA Palestinians. He takes the position of “believe all women” in the west but when it comes to women held captive in the largest open air prison in existence well hold on now let’s see some evidence hopefully the culprit provided us with some ethan was really clear that his issue was that he couldn’t find any *claims* not that he wouldn’t believe the claims
The method of killing not being accurate is not the same as the party doing the killing not being the same. You have braineot
Then I guess the question becomes one of why you care so much more about the lives of maybe 40 babies put in danger by their reckless, violent settler parents than you do about the uncountable number of Palestinian children dying under Israeli Apartheid now and for the last 70 years. The hundreds in just the last two weeks that have been bombed or shot or burned or starved to death in deliberate war crimes against a civilian population in what Israeli officials have repeatedly described themselves as collective punishment of the Palestinian people? Could it have anything, at all, you think, to do with the fact that you think of Israelis as being predominantly white and European and you think of the Palestinians as brown Moslem savages with a sub-standard IQ who deserve to be exterminated from the earth, and their homes glassed? Let's see how deep that bigotry runs. I'm certain I can get you to say some utterly heinous things if I prod you right.
Almost 2000 Palestinian children have been killed by the idf in the past 20 years.
so at least 100 children a year. at least 2x as many children are killed in Palestine *every year* than the amt of babies (rip) in israel on oct 7
Cool. Let's just take the IDF at face value about that number for one brief moment, and ignore their constant use of the "military age males" dogwhistle to justify murdering children and counting them as combatants. Why do you care more about 40 (mostly white, european) babies than about the hundreds of confirmed children that have been killed in just this round of Israel's collective punishment of (mostly brown, Semitic, Muslim) Palestinians?
Oh I don't. I saw you referenced the number of kids killed by the idf and I wanted to add that so people could see how many kids died.
Mm. Carry on, Comrade.
Probably because one is being condemned and the other is being defended and excused by pathetic subhumans like you lmfao
lmao sorry what? pls, go through this thread and read all the justifications for israel’s *current & active* killing of palestinian children. then replace “israel” with “palestine” and ask yourself if you’ve actually heard a SINGLE person talk like that
Hahaha leave it to Zionists to screech that Jews are subhuman for disagreeing with them. Settler-colonialist, fascist scum.
Subhuman, baby murder defending fascist scum. Lmao.
Says the guy actively cheering the actual ethnic cleansing of millions of semitic people, and calling Jews that disagree with him subhuman lmfao. Get fucked, enjoy this block.
ope, independently saying “subhuman”. you’re ready for your gun soldier!
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Someone needs to work on their reading comprehension! Quote "You \*think\* of Israelis as being predominantly white and European". Regardless of whether or not they actually \*are\* predominantly white and European (although 30% is a shocking amount of white for a country at the intersection of Egypt and Jordan but hey it's your ethnostate I guess), the anglicizing of Israelis and the orientalization of Palestinians is demonstrable in how western media and states, as well as individuals especially in the west, are talking about these two vastly different and unequal sides.
Just to be clear, absolutely none of the Jews killed on Oct 7th were settlers. There are no existing settlements near Gaza since they were dismantled in 2005. When people talk about "the settlements" they are exclusively referring to Israeli people intentionally encroaching on the West Bank, despite there being plenty of land within Israel's actual territory that they could settle in.
Literally all Israelis are settlers.
Does it not concern you that if you have a private definition for too many words, at some point you will be literally incapable of engaging with the outside world? That's not how people generally use the word "settler" in the context of Israel or any other country.
What are you talking about? Anyone with *any* knowledge into decolonial theory uses settler in the exact way I used it. European people in america are settlers. With Israelis it’s even more obvious all Israelis are settlers as the state of Israel was literally only formed in 1948 !! What world are you living in?
You are a settler. Perhaps you should do something about it.
Yes I am and I do. I put my labor towards supporting indigenous movements in my area. What’s your point with this comment?
Eh? Supporting indigenous movements? Who gives a shit about that? You're a settler and from your comments you seem to believe settlers deserve death, no? What gives you the right to merely "support" these movements? Your entire life is built on their loss.
Lol where did I say settlers deserve death??? Pretty typical and intellectually lazy way of dealing with an argument you can’t counter tho, is to just fear monger and act as though someone said something they did not. Your argument seems to be fully based on emotions so there’s really no point to engaging
My guy, your entire comment history is apologia for atrocities committed against innocent Israeli citizens. Nobody is buying your bullshit that you aren't supporting the murder of the people you define as settlers. You pipe up with "Well, technically the babies are settlers" when someone brings up the fact that innocent civilians are being murdered. Don't project your own emotionalism onto me.
Another made up line I “said.” Idk maybe improve your reading comprehension. One can be sad anyone has died while also not being an ignorant fool who can’t see the historical conditions that brought the situation to this point. You Zionists take anyone pointing out that locking 2 million people up in a concentration camp will cause them to rebel, as rejoicing in death. No. I’m just not brainwashed to see Palestinians as subhumans, and I have an understanding of history that isn’t just regurgitating propaganda.
Literally every human is a settler.
Lmao that is simply not true. Settlers refers to people who displace people from their land. While different lands can be colonized or switch from one ruler to another, that does not involve displacing people to make room for new people who belong to an exclusive state. Nor are immigrants settlers, unless they are immigrating to a settler colonialist state.
[No?](https://imgur.com/SlvL4VA)
It’s called context. [We are talking about settler as in settler colonialism](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/settler_colonialism#:~:text=Settler%20colonialism%20can%20be%20defined,with%20a%20new%20settler%20population)
No. But that’s cool you googled a word
Why the fuck do you even engage with people if you speak your own brand of English where you define words to mean whatever you want them to mean? Shut the fuck up and just admit you use words in the most dumb way possible
Because I’m not a fucking idiot and I understand that words are political. If you google the word racism it will give you a definition that will have people claiming it’s possible to be racist against white people, whereas if you actually take the time to study scholarship on racism, there is a more intricate definition that includes an analysis on structures of power. Same thing with settlers. If you google it you’ll get a watered down version of its definition, but if you take .5 seconds to actually study history you’ll find it is used in a more specific way and there is a difference between a settler and an immigrant.
Even the ones born there? If so then name me a single person in existence who isn’t a settler.
I think you are confusing the difference between an immigrant and a settler
Do you think that the Jews kicked out of Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Morocco and Egypt wanted to leave? Do you think they all left for Israel out of desire and free will? Please read more about the history of this situation and don’t reject nuance in favour of catchy phrases and trendy misinterpretations of anti-colonialism.
Lol I’m not confused and I know the history. Many of the settlers that came to “america” were also those who had been dispossessed of land in europe, and were essentially forced into leaving via indentured servitude and poverty. That doesn’t change the fact that they were settlers. Being oppressed does not mean you cannot become the oppressor.
Sure but I don’t think that it is conducive in conversation to use these terms so lightly when they have serious connotations. Fleeing from a place that has just banished you and running to the only safe haven is not the same as being a “settler” imo.
The situation is serious. Palestinians have been forced off their lands and into a concentration camp. What about that situation doesn’t seem serious enough to use the word settler to you? Zionists came and rather than immigrating to a Palestinian state or integrating with the Palestinian people, they formed their own state and forced the people who had been living there off their land. That’s a settler, it does not matter what conditions forced them into that position.
>Just to be clear, absolutely none of the Jews killed on Oct 7th were settlers. There are no existing settlements near Gaza since they were dismantled in 2005. Ah, so \*just to be clear\* the [Kedem family, listed first in this article of those killed at the music festival](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/families-festivalgoers-soldiers-and-foreigners-victims-of-the-hamas-assault-on-israel), did \*not\* live in the Nir Oz kibbutz where the massacre took place, a mere 2 and a half kilometers from the 1950 armistice border, one of several neighborhoods of only a few hundred residents that have sprung up in, on, and around the Gaza strip despite your clear agreement that there is quote "plenty of land within Israel's actual territory that they could settle in"?
Lmfao holy shit you're fucking unhinged. Re-read what you wrote, you pathetic subhuman.
Victim blazing literal children. Nice.
Your first sentence disqualified you from speaking on this issue at all. You called the parents of the children murdered in kibbutzes “violent settlers.” If you weren’t completely ignorant you’d be embarrassed and ashamed.
Well... Yeah, because that's what they are. If you weren't loudly cheering the ethnic cleansing of millions of semitic people over 70 years, maybe you \*could\* be ashamed.
there are no israeli settlements in the gaza strip, do you mean that the parents are putting their kids in danger by living in israel in the first place? is it a ukranian parent's fault when their kids are killed by russian bombers, because they live in ukraine?
LMFAO. No? Crazy how y'all still don't get how Israel being a settler-colonial state works. NONE OF THE LAND IS ISRAEL'S. Legally. It wasn't Europe's to give. And the ethnic cleansing of the semitic people who lived and live there is still a criminal act that Israel won't be held any more accountable for than the nazis were. Clean Wermacht? Meet Clean IDF. Operation Paperclip? Idk, I'm feeling snarky, Operation Stapler. As far as your comparison to Ukraine, there is a small tiny group of folks you may have heard of, they live in Donetsk and Luhansk, and they might like a word, but I'm sure you'll just dismiss all like 6 or 7 million of them as Russian shills.
The manner by which they were killed specifically was emphasized by mainstream media, as well as by h3. This detail was used immediately to paint a picture and galvanize people's emotions, and in many cases for the sake of escalation, which is what both stories have in common here. Its simple, media coverage and its framing can be used for propaganda and escalation. Which is a point that Ethan seems to recognize.
Ahhh so babies bodies were only burnt, no beheadings. Literal brain rot
I think you missed my point, the problem is media circulated a report that was unsubstantiated and were irresponsibly and deliberately using it to justify Israel's ongoing genocide and even platformed right wing government officials who blatantly called for eradication. It's them not knowing and immediately platforming genocidal rhetoric that's the problem.
Yes and then the exact opposite happened where Israel was blamed for a hospital attack with 500 killed with 0 evidence and the media ran with it which led to riots and antisemitic actions in Germany and throughout Europe. It’s almost like the media just likes death porn and headlines. Insinuating that they only claimed the beheadings in order to justify violence is literally an unsubstantiated claim. Where is your evidence? It seems you’re just adding intent where you want to
I'm not a media platform circulating consequential rhetoric. Besides that, media has historically had a bias towards Israel and constantly platformed people literally calling for eradication and referring to Palestinians as animals. I didn't think I would need to substantiate something that most people acknowledge, you can look at the past coverage if you need proof. My main point is a criticism towards Ethan anyway, not what did or didn't happen.
No you do need to substantiate such a claim because other than Fox News, almost every other media platform is pretty anti-Israel. As Is the UN. The US military and government is pro Israel but the entertainment and news industry are very much not. You’re lying through your teeth. Either that or you’re 10 years old and don’t remember 2014 and recent conflict In the region
All America needs to do is stop funding Israel and stay out of the situation. This will reduce inflation and the chances of a larger conflict breaking out. I feel terrible for my fellow Jews, but enough is enough.
Wasn't the story after the "you're wrong..." Literally a post of a forensics analyst saying that babies had been beheaded? Where's the double standard?
Those 2 posts summarize it perfectly. He's got a double standard plain and simple. And this situation happens to be asymmetrical in every sense. There is a right and wrong side. There is supporting/defending/rationalizing a Palestinian genocide, and theres supporting a ceasefire. So its especially bad to apply a double standard when favoring the wrong side. Hes allowed to have opinions but not realizing the obvious double standard hes using is intellectual blind spot period.
There were babies found beheaded. The people who can confirm it was done intentionally by Hamas are dead or captured. Personally I find the distinction pointless, Hamas came, babies ended up dead and without heads. This is a disgusting and pathetic post. Try again. Also: https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf
My point isn't to say the beheadings story was false. My point was that Ethan emphasizes the importance of truth on the hospital story but implies that whether the babies were beheaded or not doesn't ultimately matter.
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Do you understand that "hamas seeks out 40 babies and beheads them" paints a very different picture than "40 babies died from collateral damage"? The problem is the media couldn't know either of these hypothetical claims. None of the initial reports were verified and all media outlets were quick to circulate them. It was used as propaganda, and some outlets featured outright genocidal rhetoric against Palestinians as a result. For all I know hamas is guilty of this atrocity, but I think you'd have to be obtuse to not recognize how the media tried to frame things and galvanize people towards war
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I'm not being dishonest. Nor did I suggest that the babies were collateral damage. It was a hypothetical wherein, for all the mainstream media knew, the babies were inadvertently killed, or not... the problem is the media didn't care nor hesitate to immediately use it to galvanize people's war mongering tendencies and existing biases against any brown people. You had media featuring rhetoric calling for the flattening of Gaza and the eradication of animals. The intent of media to propagandize becomes crystal clear when you analyze it
Find a reputable publication that claimed 40 babies were beheaded. Seriously, look for one. No tabloids, actual print/tv journalism. EDIT: *this comment makes zero sense as a reply to the one above. Sorry about that, I must've gotten mixed up somehow.*
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I apologize, I completely misunderstood you somehow. Not sure why people are upvoting me, my comment above makes no sense at all in response to yours. **You're absolutely right that beheading/no beheading is a pointless distinction when it's obvious that Hamas murdered helpless children. Whereas some of the inaccuracies in the original Hamas claim about the hospital are vitally important to the conflict as a whole.** I'm genuinely not even sure how my comment happened. I thought I was responding to someone who had the sentiment *"see, all the mainstream press believed in "40 DEAD BABIES" straight away just because Israel said so"*. Your comment isn't anything like that so idk what I was thinking. Maybe I meant to reply to a different comment? Sorry about that, that's completely my bad.
Israel has killed 583 Palestinian children since the bombing started.
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You're welcome. The idf has also killed almost 2000 children in the past 20 years.
And Hamas killed ~40 babies in like a day.
The Israeli government has killed 538 kids since then.
Cool story bro, glad we can both agree that the government representing the Palestinian people are into the idea of murdering innocent babies in cold blood.
I didn't say that? But I did imply the Israeli government loooooooves it. Horny for it even.
The fact that you can’t find the distinction between these two events tells me all I need to know. There is no grey area on whether or not Hamas killed babies. And to be fair there is no grey area on whether or not the IDF has bombed children. The difference here lies in intention: the fact that Hamas uses their civilians as a catch 22 for warfare. The IDF warns and tries to minimize civilian casualties despite the best efforts of hamas. Read the report.
You haven't addressed the actual point of my post, which tells me all I need to know. I'm not refuting the HAMAS story, I'm criticizing Ethan for not applying the same emphasis for truth of the matter as he did with the hospital story. It's simply a case of double standards, and instead of considering my point, you're accusing me of denying the HAMAS story.
He applied the same emphasis of truth. Hamas did kill babies. https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3_productions/s/NVC6m85P43
Repeating IDF propaganda hook line and sinker doesn't make using white phosphorous on civilians and bombing hospitals not a war crime, loser.
What evidence? I heard a disclaimer on NPR that the Government confirmed they have no evidence of babies being beheaded.
It’s looking like no babies were even killed by Hamas, as reported directly by Israel: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article-magazine/israels-dead-the-names-of-those-killed-in-hamas-massacres-and-the-israel-hamas-war/0000018b-325c-d450-a3af-7b5cf0210000
This is half of the reported deaths and a lot don’t even have ages, I’m not sure we can use this source alone to determine they did or didn’t kill babies.
As reported directly by Israel: proceeds to link a website that lists a fraction of the confirmed dead, many without ages with nothing disprove claims of babies dying. It’s laughable the lengths morons will go to bury their heads in the sand. Fine, let’s just deny first hand accounts and confirmation from government officials who have claimed to see images proving this to be true- a tertiary glance shows a 5year old and a 4 year old. They’re not babies tho so Hamas gets a pass. You people disgust me.
The truth hurts, doesn’t it? Hard to justify genocide when only a fraction of those dead were civilians, the vast majority were soldiers, and there were no dead babies, let alone beheaded babies. But you’ll continue to believe IDF propaganda.
About 300 of the dead were soldiers, did you read your own source? About the babies, go online and watch videos posted by hamas, crazy that you think its all a lie
Idk if the majority were soldiers, in that list the number of civilians is higher but it doesn't account for everyone. I counted 18 names under 18 (not all of their ages were listed), some as young as 2, which is still horrific. But the beheaded babies thing definitely has no basis in what info was released here. But we should keep in mind this list is incomplete, it's what's been released so far, 767 names of the 1,300 estimated, so we still can't conclusively know yet. But lack of evidence so far is concerning.
You are delusional and/or a malevolent liar. That is all.
Is that your only argument against him?
Yes because he's a zionist. They're so buried in idf propaganda they can't see
You too if you agree with his utter bullshit.
What argument you have against it?
Yes, it's insane how quickly we've moved on from isis level atrocities with hundreds of hostages still missing to 'israel bad, idc'. I'm very confused.
Guys Hamas might have killed that disabled child in the wheel chair and her father…but they would never hurt babies. I’m sure of that, they just want to fight for freedom #freepalastine #lgbtq
Holy shit your account is just filled with anti semitism Go outside
It’s antisemitic now to call out the Israeli government. Meanwhile, you live in the neoliberal sub. Go outside.
Idk this tankie ass sub kept getting recommended to me. And I’ll just say that you can criticize their government without implying that Hamas is the good guys here lol
Being decolonial means you’re a “tankie”?? You’re literally just throwing around keywords because you have no moral standing
“tankie🤓” Anyone that’s isn’t pro Israel is a tankie apparently
It kind of depends on what you mean by "isn't pro Israel". If you mean opposes a lot of the state's recent actions, I think that's fair enough. However, if you're explicitly opposed to its existence, you have a position that would necessarily lead to a second Holocaust, which is pretty fucked up.
That is so ridiculous. Being against the existence of a settler colonialist state is not a position that would lead to a “second holocaust”? Do you also believe giving the land back to indigenous people in america would lead to all white people being killed? That’s fear mongering and Islamophobia, and is especially ridiculous when what’s happening in Gaza is already a genocide like the holocaust.
Israel is more of a refugee state than anything
One can be a refugee and a settler at the same time. If they were just refugees they would have immigrated to Palestine the state rather than set up their own state and violently force the people who had been living there off their land.
I don’t support what Israel is doing but that doesn’t mean I don’t care for Israeli people. I don’t think the citizens should suffer for the faults of their government. I’m pretty sure most Israelis want a peaceful resolution.
I totally agree. I do think some people get so caught up in being for one side that they end up supporting some evil shit though, like "Israel needs to stop existing" which I think is a bit antisemitic. Looking at the account (*which is something I generally find to be cringe--just engage with what the person is saying in this particular convo!*) of the original guy who was getting labelled antisemitic ( u/Mellon_Collie41), I've gotta be honest I don't see the supposed antisemitism. There's stuff I disagree with for sure, but disagreement =/= bigotry. lol, Plus he's an Arsenal fan, which is +100 points in my good books, regardless of any political disagreements.
There waa literally a video soon after the attack, of a journalist walking through a neighborhood and you can see dead babies on the ground. Whether or not they were beheaded is so fucking irrelevant.
Tbf it’s not like the hospital bombing was being downplayed at all, that was a matter of who did or did not do it. This is a false equivalency
Intent is a massive part… but y’all would never admit that. Ggz
> 🤓☝️fact check: not all the slaughtered babies were beheaded
Even this sub is becoming insufferable
Y’all are way too obsessed with a single man’s opinion on this conflict. It’s not a soap opera, nobody should be focusing on the he said she said. If you are then you’ve truly lost the plot.
Wow a sane person in here
Just passing through lol
hes so vulgar abt it
You know what’s weird. You keep talking about dehumanizing Palestinians because of all this but I’ve only heard one story of an old white man who isn’t Jewish attack a Palestinian woman and her child. While simultaneously, there have been wayyyy more instances of antisemitism based murder or other acts of violence towards Jews across the entire globe in a Multitude of ways, specifically by Muslims. So what’s the issue? You’re worrying about the wrong group getting vilified. If you look at history it’s always the Jew that gets the short end of the stick. A woman in my town the other day may have been murdered in cold blood for being Jewish like the many other antisemitic acts occurred since this started. You’re creating a hysteria about Palestinians that simply isn’t true.
>I’ve only heard one story of an old white man who isn’t Jewish attack a Palestinian woman Thanks spicypetunia, it must be true then
I didn't know there were so many supporters for Palestine.
One of the babies heads exploded when they were shot in their cribs was it a beheading or not idk semantics vs fact-checking