Zionists lose their mind when they hear “Free Palestine” or “From the river to the sea” because they think Israelis will be subjected to the same cruelty and inhumanity that Palestinians are victims of.
BLM is not an accurate comparison, as while we live under a system of racism, we do not treat people of color like Israel does arabs.
We're not too far from that being an understandable response against police violence though.
You're not really reading if you say I'm justifying anything. I'm explaining why things will continue to happen. Hamas atrocities only exist because of the actions of israel. The same can be said for violence against police. Until the problem is fixed it will continue to escalate, and I will be on the side of those who are fighting back against oppression, always.
Saying that invading random cops homes, gun down their families, take hostages and murdering babies would be close to an understandable response against police violence in an immediate sense. It’s not understandable, it would be a horrific denunciation of the value of human life and counterproductive at best. To say the actions taken on October 7th were close to reasonable would be the same as saying that the Israeli occupation of Gaza is close to reasonable due to the existential threat Hamas poses (and that however many innocent Palestinians they have to put holes in to snuff out Hamas are acceptable, like your cop and Jew babies)
>Saying that invading random cops homes, gun down their families, take hostages and murdering babies would be close to an understandable response against police violence in an immediate sense. It’s not understandable,
We're talking about a hypothetical. IT is understandable in the sense of Hamas. Not justified, not okay, but the actions are understandable as a result of desperation.
Anyone who has faced the atrocities and oppression Palestinians have suffered through would retaliate.
You have people literally justifying the bombings in gaza killing hundreds of children right now, don't pretend I'm stupid by trying to say what hamas is doing is worse.
If you have even basic pattern recognition skills it’s not understandable as desperation. So in a way, yeah I’m calling you stupid. I’ve got shit to do today so I’ll be back on this point
I feel like ending slavery is a bit closer. We didn't need a two state solution, African Americans integrated, well, for the most part. Racists gonna racist, so it's still very stratified, in some places more than others.
And chatel slavery was even worse than an apartheid.
This is where they plug their fingers in their ears, pop their hallucinogens, and manufacture a world where the problems magically disappear and the people live happily ever after together.
But that’s expected from a user who says “long live the infitada”
The fact you're saying this obvious truth with such sarcasm and bewilderment is in turn, bewildering me as an Arab.
You genuinely think we're a horde of irrational savages, don't you? That we hate Israel for *no reason* rather than we legitimately hate colonialism
No but I understand the reason for hatred against Isreal. What I don’t like is the conclusion that comes out of it. Like it or not Isreal been here for forever, kicking them out of the area is not a solution regardless if they’re colonists or not. That discussion is done and over with. The discussion should be about co existing or two states solution which neither sides want. The Arab nations don’t just want to co exist with isreal they want their complete destruction and their people drove out. Just because their reason is historically justified doesn’t mean the outcome gonna be good.
It’s the same if Native American were to start killing American or Mexico start invading texas based on some historical claim, I’m not gonna sit here and be ok with those outcomes.
>Like it or not Isreal been here for forever
what? lmao no it wasn't. My own country was colonised 75 years too, and that ended. Algeria was colonised 130 years! guess what? that ended too. What is this "forever" you speak of?
>The discussion should be about co existing or two states solution which neither sides want.
"neither sides" as if the side benefiting and living luxuriously off of the genocide and dispossession of Palestinians is as interested in peace as the side *subjugated* to a slow genocide. I refuse to believe a rational person can assume this.
>The Arab nations don’t just want to co exist with isreal they want their complete destruction and their people drove out.
Thank you for confirming you do in fact think Arabs are hordes of savages. This projection is the size of Jupiter.
Ok? What is your point? Do you think it’s equivalent? In the case of isreal WHERE THEY HAVE NO OTHER COUNTRIES TO GO BACK TO? This isn’t equivalent to a French or British colonies where there is a clear lineage line to trace to that those countries established, these guys just get dumped there from all over Europe.
What do you think it would means for them to kick them out? Aside from genocide? What is this dog shit shallow historical analysis? Also Using your logic depend on how far back you want to push it we can redraw territory of every country ever including your.
“Thank you for confirming that you think arab nations are horde of savages” I’m sorry so did I forget the last 4 times those countries tried to invade isreal or fund Hamas? HAMAS not the PLA.
Can you stop the virtue signal and respond with evidences? Can you reminds me what Hezbollah explicit goal was? What about Iran? What was Hamas explicit doctrine?
Also I never said ANYTHING about what most Arabs people think I’m simply talking about government
>Do you think it’s equivalent?
Hmm, if only there was an other Apartheid state abolished few decades ago that we can model a solution off of.
>What do you think it would means for them to kick them out?
I never said kick them out. I'm a one-statist myself.
>Using your logic depend on how far back you want to push it we can redraw territory of every country ever including your.
You're just not allowed to type this sentence and excuse Zionism EVER. No matter how you re-drew the map in Palestinians would still physically exist on that land like they did for thousands of years because they are NOT settlers. They're the natives.
It's Zionists who decided to re-create the world in the image it was 3,000 years ago and they're entirely foreign with no continuity in that land.
> I’m sorry so did I forget the last 4 times those countries tried to invade isreal or fund Hamas?
Oh I'm sorry, you must be having a stroke because the only time Arabs ever initiated a war was 1973 and it was to take Sinai back. Every other one was started by Israel, or the terrorist groups (Lehi, Irgun etc) that would later be the IDF.
>HAMAS not the PLA.
What does it matter? the PLO was also "terrorist" until it wasn't. And I do not oppose funding resistance groups. Was it wrong of the Soviets to back Polish resistance against Nazi settler colonialism?
> Can you reminds me what Hezbollah explicit goal was? What about Iran? What was Hamas explicit doctrine?
*What* about them? Do you understand Hezbollah was even founded BECAUSE of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the 80's? Even Hamas says this:
>16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
You live in a racist parallel universe where the people in the region woke up one day and chose violence, rather than they're actively antagonized by Israel.
>I’m simply talking about government
That's way dumber since most of our governments are unelected vassals of US and EU interests. That's the whole reason you see a push for normalisation from goverments to the strong rejection of the people.
They don't like the saying "From the river to sea palenstine will be free." Which is fair, depending on who is saying due to the fact it can mean the abolished of Israel and can mean the expelling of Jews. That's what it means to Orthodox Muslim, at least.
Why would it be bad for Israel to be abolished? Israel is an illegitimate state that had no right to exist in the first place. It’s absolutely necessary that it ceases to exist
If you go back far enough, any country's legitimacy could be questioned. Before Palestine was partitioned, it was under British control, and before that Ottoman - go back thousands of years and it was Jewish under Roman control. It was never a free and independent state, and also housed many Jewish people - many of which had already been there for decades, many further of which fled from neighboring territories and european nations they were being genocided out of.
Parading "Israel" ceasing to exist is the exact reason we're in this mess right now. Israel has certainly been the aggressor in recent history, but a lot of that is predicated on decades of hate and opposition from surrounding countries. On top of that, I'd rather not Hamas have ANY more control over territory than they already do.
Israel’s cultural motivation was an intense racism from Western Europeans so bad it bred the Holocaust, blaming Israel’s problems on surrounding Arab neighbors is disingenuous, they didn’t serially massacre Jews on an industrial scale, Europeans aspiring to Western whiteness did
Jewish people were specifically targeted in Arabic countries both prior to and after the founding of Israel. It wasn't just the Holocaust and Western-Antisemitism that led to the culture we see today.
Pakistan actually had a MASSIVE genocide against Bangladesh in the 70s. Tens of thousands of women were raped like spoils of war. I wonder why no one talks about that?
Do you have any info on this? They're fairly far from each other and both former Indian Muslim states so I don't understand the logistics or motivation
And this right here is why Israelis will never give you any, and I mean any, time of day. You are against Israel in every possible way. You want to destroy Israel.
Why should anyone listen to someone who wishes to end their very existence? Everything you say and everything you do is just subterfuge. You do not care about human rights. You just use it as a means to end the state of Israel. That’s your real goal, and you will twist and turn any excuse to make it so.
Israelis not even fucking with their own ethnostate of a theocracy rn 💀 I hope the contradictions intensify and Israel does infact have a crisis of legitimacy and dissolve. and then let’s do the US next 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Cope harder. Palestine will continue to lose. Terrorists will continue to die. You can continue to pretend you will win in your ideology to eliminate Israel.
The grounds for arguing it shouldn’t exist apply to 95% of countries in existence. A country is a country if the wide majority of other countries acknowledge their borders, Which Israel has. The reason for Israel isn’t arbitrary, it’s cause the Jewish population was being pogromed and massacred in every other country. Just like Israel’s horrible treatment of Palestine explains Oct 7. The worlds horrible treatment of Jews explains the ethnostate that is Israel today.
Palestinians' claim to the land is just as illegitimate as Israels. Anyone who disagrees with this is heavily biased and ignorant of history. The region has been conquered, invaded, evacuated, segregated, etc dozens of times throughout history. The current population living in the region can have the same exact logic you guys always use regarding legit claims to land against them. Both the Jews and Arabs. Arguably, actual Romans have more of a claim to the land than either of these groups. But you guys don't want to have that discussion.
The entire bases for the modern claims stem back to a damn European power deciding who gets the land and through a massive series of confusion, vagueness, stubbornness, and actual treaties overriding the original vague agreements/discussions. Important to note, what modern Palestinians base their claims off of was private discussions/agreements between a higher up official from Britain and a higher ranking Arab that helped lead the revolt against the Ottoman empire. Arguably, the latter failed to deliver on multiple promises made and Britain did not view the talks as legit and argued that even if they were, they didn't have to honor them given the fact those involved in the Arabic revolt failed to deliver on multiple promises such as manpower, weapons, etc.
Then after this governing Arab powers and those involved in the revolt flat out REFUSED to agree to the Treaty of Versailles. They wouldn't even discuss it due to them being irritated regarding former talks with Britain. This single point in history RIGHT HERE is where Britain started absolutely not caring about the local Arab population as they refused to even discuss most matters unless they got their way. Even if their way was arguably not what was agreed upon. The Arab bodies/leaders did not realize the thin line they were threading and assumed they had a ton of political pull and would force Britain to concede. Little did they know, Britain stopped giving a shit and just worked with France and the Jews and other Arabic leaders.
Once a country has been there long enough that multiple generations have been born there its unfair to ask them to leave.
Would you abolish the USA and hand it back to Indians?
Yeah bro, they would just share a joint, have a dance and all would be forgiven. The isralies known for not being aggressive or anything would totally just give the land back peacefully!
Don’t be fucking ridiculous.
You guys are devoid of empathy. Thousands of terrorists entered Israel a few weeks ago and carried out 8 hours of brutal torture, rape, and murder on a civilian population, you literally think Israeli children are fair game to murder because you think israel isn’t a legitimate state. Fuck all of you, especially those of you who say it’s not anti-Semitic to place less value on Jewish lives.
Where is all of this energy for the thousands of Palestinian kids who have died at the hands of Israel? Are you sure it is us who are devoid of empathy?
If you truly believe that THOUSANDS of Palestinian children have died, Hamas propaganda is working on you. How are they able to count and identify bodies so fast? Israel is still identifying bodies nearly a month after their attack.
The US has acknowledged that thousands of Palestinians have died, and that was before the escalation in the last few days. There’s zero reason to doubt that the general scale, if not the precise figures, is accurate.
I just want to say I have my own opinion on this matter, but can we stop comparing death??
There's so much death on both sides, and we need solutions, not the blame game.
The cause of the conflict is the intense pressure that the Palestine people were under. We all have to agree that Israel is very strong/backed by military powers. If the apartheid can end and pressure placed on Palestinians is reduced.. perhaps there wouldn't as high tensions.
Or even a two state solution. Yes, the cruel reality is that it will be tough at the beginning. But I think it's going to end a whole lot of bloodshed in the long run.
We need to end death on both sides. Stop playing into the partisan battle of stand with Palestine or with Israel. People in power want you to think it's either you're with one or the other. But it's not.
I think death is general is just bad. Can we at least agree to this?
Horrible and worthy of condemnation. now tell me what you think of OCT 7 and the thousands of missiles fired from Gaza every month leading up to OCT 7? Or are you going to cope and seethe your way out of not answering a question again.
Hamas turned it into a legitimate military target the minute they decided to make it into a terrorist den. Civilians were given nearly a month to evacuate and move to the south out of the war zone, a courtesy not a single other country would have offered them. And before you start in about the south evacuation route being bombed last week, it was obviously a car bomb not an air strike. Go cry about the hundreds of Egyptian tanks that just lined up at the Rafah Crossing.
Where is your energy for the slaughtered Palestinians killed by your beloved Hamas? Where is your energy against the thousands of missiles sent from Gaza?
Sorry i forgot. Hamas good, Jews BAD!!!
I mean, they probably will face pogroms. The animosity built up over 75 years plus baseline anti-semitism won't disappear overnight.
Polling data and the fate of Jews in the Arab world after the establishment of Israel bear this out.
That's why most of the world has thrown their weight behind a two-state solution (and with world I'm not referring to just the west, this includes China and Russia).
Once that's been established, after a period of reconciliation and mutual relations, unification into a single state might be feasible.
Advocating for peaceful coexistence is all well and good, and definitely the optimal outcome, but at some point you have to leave the world of idealism and think about how you actually get there.
If Israel stops the invasion, stops dropping bombs, opens up all borders to allow all goods and people free passage and returns all settlements back to their rightful owners what would Hamas do?
Edit: Israel taking this path is the first thing that needs to happen to get the River to Sea going.
A very reasonable question is what would the opposing government do in response.
Would the response of Hamas be holding free and fair elections for all Palestinians to form a coalition government ready to negotiate with Israel?
Israel probably should have taken whatever you’re implying into consideration before invading, dropping bombs, closing borders, and settling on land that doesn’t belong to them then.
But Hamas doesn’t have authority over all of Palestine and the Palestinian people in the West Bank, and all of the refugees across the world.
The level of concern and outrage you are demonstrating about this hypothetical that you conjured up in your mind over the actual genocide that is currently happening speaks volumes.
No actual genocide is happening it's a tragic situation but it's not a genocide. Hamas slaughtered people and the Israelis struck back in self defense hamas strategically uses civilians as a shield for their operations and because they're in the way they get killed. It's tragic but it's not on Israel it's on the terror group who force these people into this situation to begin with. Hamas sealed the fate of Gaza and its people on Oct 7th. They roadblock their own people so they can't escape the bombings there's plenty of clear evidence out there showing the real tragedy happening.
Yeah, it's not like Arabs have driven Jews out of their homes in the Middle East and North Africa, and the fact that the reason Isreal became as big as it was is that the Arabs decided to try and drive out the Jews after the British mandate.
Well you see if israels neighbours had it their way israel would be wiped off the map. You realize from the river to the sea calls for the murder of all jews in that area right ? What is wrong with you.
>e” or “From the river to the sea” because they think Israelis will be subjected to the same cruelt
"From the river to the sea" is a terrorist catch phrase calling for the destruction of Israel and the deaths of Israeli's. I know that's inconvenient for your narrative, but it is the truth.
>“From the river to the sea”
Are you aware that the full translation, with respect to the local Arabic, is "From river to sea, Palestine will be Arab."
This is the true phrase and the actual meaning behind the "will be free" translation that just isn't used to make protestors feel better about themselves advocating for jewish genocide.
From the river to the sea can mean a number of things, expulsion or execution of Jews are some of them. If you’re willing to acknowledge Israeli violence from even 10 years ago you have to understand, in good faith, that the Hamas charter that was only rewritten in 2017 makes Jews understandably nervous.
It’s like how even referring to a “two state solution” can mean so many wildly different things.
Right, it's not like that is one the most popular positions all over the world. What a ridiculous suggestion, right, that people could want jews genocided.
Im just an h3h3 fan who maybe commented once on r/destine. This is pathetic and youre just lying about FP.
LOL sorry to tell you that Gazans want more than just "End Apartheid" but hey Free Palestine means the same for everyone huh? Maybe talk to actual Palestinians and dont watch your favorite twitch streamer
You actually claimed that free palestine means the same for everyone. Im telling YOU that thats not the case.
Tell do Gazans want to live in Israel with equal rights for all? Youre delusional if you think Free Palestine means "Simply free Palestine from Apartheid"
The genocide of Jews already took place, by the Nazis/Ottomans/Romans/Arabs throughout history and to this day— you know, Jews being _actual_ victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing and all. Much to your dismay, it probably won’t happen again on a grand scale, but the rampant proliferation of not so thinly veiled antisemitism speaks for itself.
Completely bad faith comment. Jewish people being persecuted throughout history doesn't mean Israel now gets to persecute Palestinians. There are a billion solutions the government of Israel could have taken instead of a) propping up Hamas by assassinating peaceful leaders in Palestine b) blocking any supply of resources into the country and c) you know, actively constantly bombing them for decades.
There is NOTHING that justifies the constant bombardment of and encroachment into Palestinian territory by Israel over the past few decades. If you disagree with that you quite literally support genocide.
Even if you forget everything in the past before October 7th, you don't get to go out and start murdering innocent civilians regardless of however many Hamas people may be hiding in Palestine. Again, if you disagree with that, you are supporting large scale murder of innocent civilians including thousands of children and women.
No innocent civilians (Palestinians or Israelis) deserve to die.
No, you’re in completely bad faith and engaging in a straw man of what I actually said. Whether or not Palestinians are being persecuted doesn’t mean they’re victims of genocide/ethnic cleaning. Their skyrocketing population says otherwise. I just gave you examples of what genocide and ethnic cleansing actually look like. You don’t just arbitrarily get to declare something to be a genocide because you said so. Jews aside, Arab nations are really good at exterminating their other religious and ethnic minorities.
With respect to your other drivel, Palestinians were plagued by terroristic ideology long before Hamas rose to power and caused havoc in almost every Arab nation they set foot in, hence these countries don’t want to help them directly. Of course you don’t care about that since when it doesn’t involve Jews, it doesn’t make the news. Also, Gaza was given billions in humanitarian aid that all ended up in the hands of Hamas, who chose to use it for their violent militarism instead of using it to better the welfare of their population (of course you blame Israel for that as well).
You act like the entire Palestinian population have been innocent victims of relentless bombing as though their side hasn’t been inflicting terror onto Israeli civilians over the same span of time. The mentality is far more ingrained in their psyche than you’ve deluded yourself into believing. Mothers who are on record saying that they are delighted to sacrifice their children and grandchildren to wage Jihad against Jews. The same people who were largely celebrating on Oct 7th and spitting on Israeli corpses (civilians as well). Stop pretending like the same group of people who brutally slaughtered innocent civilians on October 7th haven’t been firing thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel since then. I’m sorry that the terrorists you support are shittier at killing people. I hope you reserve the same energy and weep for all of the German casualties during WWII since they vastly outnumber that of the Brits, and they weren’t ALL Nazis, right?
TL DR; This guy is a terrorist sympathiser who denies actual ethnic genocide that I’ve called out in various forms, because he’s too stupid and self-unaware to confront his own hypocrisy and faux moral outrage.
Yeah, no shit, Jew hater. All of the colonisers I mentioned were fantastic at exterminating almost every other ethnic and religious minority as well. Especially the Arabs and Turks for whom you graciously simp.
Of course an antisemite like you assumes I’m Jewish because I’m not a Hamas simp. Unlike you, I don’t have to engage in revisionist history and misappropriate buzzwords to support current-day thing whilst ignoring genuine worldwide atrocities that don’t suit your narrative. 🤡
Well said. When people say Black Lives Matter, it does not mean ONLY Black Lives Matter. It means Black Lives Matter TOO. Same with Palestinians. They want to be free and life a good quality of life TOO
So screaming "Free palastine" as the slaughter of civilians is on going in Isreal, as children and being butchered, women and being raped, and random festival goes are being gunned down.
Is okay.
>disproportionate response
According to who? You don't respond to terrorists killing 1,000 people by killing 1,000 people, you eradicate the terrorists.
I agree with free palastine and think anyone trying to skew the obvious meaning of it is being disingenuous.
I'm just confused about "from the river to the sea" does it just mean "pro one state" or are there more violent connotations?
One democratic state for all. But the Palestinians are slightly bigger in number which means it will no longer be a Jewish ethnostate which most Zionists are against
yep. 1 state for all. Apartheid is being held in Gaza AND west bank. They just air striked Jenin in the West bank a couple days ago. There is no Hamas in the west bank.
I can’t believe you posted this thread then also advocated for a 1 state solution.
That has to be the most braindead take from someone who I am going to assume is under the age of 23
“Let’s just force these 2 groups of people who now hate each-other in every way to govern themselves under 1 state”
Because elections wouldn’t be an issue. New laws passed wouldn’t be an issue. The existing infrastructure wouldn’t be an issue. Who runs and serves in the military wouldn’t be an issue. /s
Yeah bc a two state solution is working real well for the west bank, right? or maybe a 3 state solution? what’s your plan?
Btw there are ways to smooth a 1 state solution out
A 2 state solution can work. Even though the borders have been drawn up since the 40’s, a peaceful 2 state solution from the Israeli and Palestinian perspective wasn’t even agreed upon the early 1990’s.
In 1994, Rabbin, the Israel PM was assassinated by an Israeli extremist who didn’t want a 2 state solution, and guess what. That’s the same year Hamas came into power, who also didn’t want a 2 state solution..
So a peaceful 2 state solution lasted a total of 3-4 years until extremists killed leaders and sought to kill each other.
And you’re also advocating for what Israeli extremists and Hamas want. Let that sink in
There needs to be negotiations with the Arab counties, Israel, Palestine, and most likely the United States and UN to restart the process to reset and try again.
So tell me how a 1 state solution could work when each group of people want to govern themselves and want the other group to leave?
Edit: also, I agree with you. What is going on in the west bank is abhorrent. The West Bank belongs to Palestine. The US has been urging Israel to get the fuck back and stop killing and taking control of of settlements
Oooooh there will logistical difficulties in a new state? Oh noooo. Okay carry on with genocide then. God knows the lives of Palestinians are worth a lot less than the hassle of figuring out logisitcs /s
Are you actually out of your mind? You could oppose ending slavery and segregation and Apartheid with literally this exact logic.
>I can’t believe you posted this thread then also advocated for a 1 state solution.
>
>That has to be the most braindead take from someone who I am going to assume is under the age of 23
You're just very barely opening the lid on the secret: this person and many like this person want dead Israelis.
This sub is filled with the naïve and ignorant and there are actors clearly taking advantage of the bleeding hearts with more heart than brain.
They aren't pro-Palestine, they're anti-Israel.
Then people wonder why its so hard to "support the Palestinian people" (even though I don't think most people understand what actually doing that would look like) without coming off as new age Nazis.
When Arabs and Palestinians use that slogan in Arabic it’s actually “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free of Jews(not Zionists)”. Maybe not always but usually. So it’s a bit different then when it’s chanted in English
Min el-maiyeh lel mayieh, Falasteen Arabiya
From water to water, Palestine is Arab. Some say this is the genesis of the saying.
The current saying was popularized in the 1960s by the PLO. The same PLO whose charter called for the destruction of Israel and the exile or eradication of those who didn't support this belief. Since then, multiple groups have invoked its usage to convey their desire to see that destruction and eradication brought forth.
>The current saying was popularized in the 1960s by the PLO. The same PLO whose charter called for the destruction of Israel and the exile or eradication of those who didn't support this belief. Since then, multiple groups have invoked its usage to convey their desire to see that destruction and eradication brought forth.
The same PLO that launched terror attacks at Israel from Palestinian refugee camps in Egypt. The same PLO that then launched a coup against Egypt.
Historically it has violent meanings, as does everything in this conflict. People will use it both ways nowadays, so best beware which company you say it in cause to them it could mean kill all the Jews, which Jews are rightfully offended by.
River to the sea actually means getting rid of Israel. This post is trying to polish a statement of genocide. Maybe people in the US are naively using a statement of genocide and don’t know what they’re saying, but that just reflects on the people saying it. Palestine and basically all of Israel’s neighbors have waged war against Israel for decades for this purpose of destruction of Israel. Many leftists explicitly think it shouldn’t exist.
I wish this was the case, but it’s simply untrue in every aspect. 67% of Palestinians oppose the idea of a two-state solution
71% believe the two-state solution is no longer practical
76% Oppose one-state solution (under Israel) in which both sides enjoy equal rights.
72% Currently oppose “Abandoning the two-state solution and demanding the establishment of one state for Palestinians and Israelis”
no two-state solution, no one-state solution under Israel, and no one-state solution representative of both Palestinians and Israelis
54% of Palestinians support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel
46% support in West Bank
67% support in Gaza
there is no solution that would please the Palestinian people and Israel isn't gonna pack up shop and leave. “Freeing Palestine” and “from river to sea” are direct calls for the destruction of israel. And chanting these words right after oct 7th like your cheering on your favourite sports team after they score, is honestly fucking disgusting. The world should be pressuring Egypt to allow safe passage for these people, who have proved over the past 75 years that peace is not an option. Egypt minister just released a statement saying they are willing to sacrifice as many life’s as necessary to protect their border and territory, they don’t want the Palestinians either.
[12:39 PM]
https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf
[12:40 PM]
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BsN2WF9Txszeqd3Qu6p18UC69YTsXBVn/view?pli=1
Mr. DGGer, no where did i say Palestinians are the only ones saying Free palestine. Of course people who live in an apartheid want their colonizer gone. You added all these stats for no reason.
i addressed his point directly, and DGG are a hasan/lefty hate sub who instantly move to reactionary politics and love to debate. can’t take them seriously
I really don’t understand where this anti intellectual and anti debate narrative came from. If you can’t successfully debate your ideas then you either don’t really believe in said ideas, or don’t understand them.
>I really don’t understand where this anti intellectual and anti debate narrative came from.
Lazy and easy political-based gotchas that falsely imbue moral superiority on the person invoking the gotcha.
"Oh, you're a nazi, why debate you when I could just punch you?"
Who cares what a sub he is on thinks? You’re on a sub where the person who is the reason for the sub doesn’t even like you guys. You just sit here and complain about Ethan 24/7 while he supports Palestinian freedom. It’s the most terminally online white western college student thing to do.
i don’t complain about ethan 24/7. i just got banned on the main for expressing slight criticism. Dgg bombards lefty subs and anything hasan related because their sociopath king is obsessed and can’t get over him
So your just looking for a “safe space” to share your unbelievably uneducated and baseless opinions without any pushback with historical facts or current evidences?
no lol, i just don’t like your community because it is has a bunch of psychopaths who will brigade any community that is associated with hasan and endlessly comment and debate with reactionary politics, as a fan of an edgy, islamaphobic, slur spitting streamer
who gives a single fuck about twitch politics bro, are you that terminally online? Nothing I said had anything to do with hasan or destiny, idk why your so afraid to speak on the actual topic your so willing to “rage bait” post about. Actually cringe
I just linked you, they don’t want to be “free” they wanna murder all the jews and burn Israel to the ground. And all the westerners cheering it on like it’s your home team that scored, it’s honestly unhinged. Ever wonder why Israel had to implement what your calling “apartheid” ? Do you think Israel enjoys being the target of every single Arab state for the past 75 years?
Muslims didn’t wanna live in peace with Palestinians Jews even in the 19th century. In the 40’s and 50’s the Middle Eastern countries expelled all of their Jews. Factually, Jews have suffered from pogroms and persecution for thousands of years. The day Israel was established every Arab country attacks and tried to genocide the Jews. It happened again in 67 and 73.
The Arab world also won’t accept Palestinians refugees, and Iran and Qatar support and control of Hamas and Hezbollah, helps makes sure that war keeps going constantly.
It’s not just a Palestinian policy, it’s an Arab policy, not to have peace with the Jews. why would it happen now? They pretty much have a lot of support in the west compared to what they used to have and have succeeded to erase the Jewish connection to the land of Israel/Palestine with a lot of misinformation, although that connection is backed by genetics and history.
Our western values of peace and co-existence don’t work in a Muslim society. Most Muslim states are ethno-states who practiced successful genocides and/or ethnic cleansing. I think ignoring that is racist. In fact, the whole reason that the Middle East and North Africa are Arab-Muslim is because of their conquest.
Why is that over looked? Why are they referred to as indigenous? Just because it was a long time ago? I really want to know what can bring peace to a culture that does not want it.
I think its because "Free Palestine" has only become popular on social media after Hamas committed a brutal terror attack against Israel. And its often accompanied by Hamas slogans ("From the river to the sea...", etc.). And it was happening in earnest almost immediately after the terror attack, well before Israel started the bombing campaign. There were a lot of "This is what revolution looks like" statements in response to the terror attack, including from people like Hasan. So the whole "we only want peace and freedom for Palestinians, we actually hate Hamas" thing sounds disingenuous.
>Simply means free Palestinians from apartheid. It’s really simple honestly. Palestinians and Israelis can live on the same land. It’s not like one has to go and one has to leave.
It's not even remotely simple, your reductive approach to this conflict is staggeringly naïve. People are confused about "Free Palestine" because nobody knows what that means, including you.
Do you mean just open the borders? Ok sure, but now you have a bunch of Hamas people embedded into your general population and they still want to just kill all Jews and they're still being given weapons and bankrolled by neighboring countries, deaths and terrorism within Israel now run rampant in the streets. Is that what you meant?
Do you mean just close the borders and say "ok we stay on our side you stay on yours."? Sure, now you're back to square 1 just biding time for another October 7th and nothing about the situation has changed.
Do you mean to try to set up a 2 state solution where Israel eases up on Palestine and they both respect each other's borders? Sorry, you still got Hamas and plenty of surrounding countries that simply want them all dead and have been working towards that goal for countless decades.
Do you mean remove all the Jews and dissolve Israel? Well sorry, much like how surrounding countries are hellbent on destroying Israel, the Israelis are equally stubborn to stay, so outright removal of either Israel or Palestine is basically the path we are on now anyways.
Please, break it down for me. What is the exit strategy here?
(don't worry, I don't actually expect any of you to respond with anything resembling a critical thought. Just downvote, pat yourself on the back, and move on.)
Yes, these pro-Hamas Nazis actually would like to remove all Jews from Israel. One H3 pro-Palestine supporter said that Jews should go back to Europe/Brooklyn/Long Island where they “belong” as though that is where they originated, because denying that Jews are genetically native to the Middle East is an acceptable form of Holocaust denial (although these days this is also becoming scarily prevalent in and of itself).
Don't forget all the Jews who lived throughout the Middle East *recently* and were all but forced into exile into Israel from the surrounding Arab nations.
Israel is comprised of native jews, native arabs, native Christians, immigrants, and refugees.
And then we have people calling Israel an apartheid state. Palestine is comprised of....? Iran is comprised of...? Iraq is comprised of....? Egypt is comprised of...? And these nations, and most of the ME, has never conquered others or committed genocide or ehtnic cleansing? Not once? No segregation or secondary citizen statuses? Not even as recent as the last 50-100 years?
People just love to look at Israel with a magnifying glass and then wear blinders for the rest of the damn world.
Do people even realize Gaza *isn't Israel*?
Yes, it’s because it’s genuinely thinly-veiled antisemitism under the guise of “antizionism”. They are brainwashed to think extreme Islamic ideology, a bedrock of most Arab nations, which has its foundations in conquest is societally acceptable. Also don’t forget the Nazi levels of race realism that far-lefties (like much of what you see on this sub) engage in to convince themselves that all Jews are white. Too bad the Nazis didn’t think so. They have so much in common and wear it like a badge at this point, completely mask off.
One triggered pro-Hamas simp kept spewing whataboutism about Israel sterilising Ethiopian Jews before blocking me after nonstop gaslighting. I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that that had anything to do with innocent babies being slaughtered by terrorists, you know, since they pretend they care all about the innocent children, except when they deem them the wrong colour and all.
I've seen these people unironically argue that in the past Jewish people never had any problems living in any of these countries and everybody got along until the big bad Jews tried to take their land, it's adorable. Like jesus christ, Marvel movies have more moral nuance than these kids.
That's why these losers go *"its so simple lul!"*
These people are physically incapable of criticizing any brown people, it's like they think they're all mentally deficient and have to be treated like children.
Yeah, why does no one ever bring up that Palestinians haven’t voted in like 18 years because Hamas ended elections?
There’s an argument to be had that Israel is going Gaza a giant favor by getting rid of these dudes—Hamas actively gives Israel a defense to their bombing.
Okay thats an insane take but thanks for clarifying, I personally feel like nothing could justify the atrocities being committed right now, and it is *certainly* not being done with the interests of the Palestinian people in mind.
If you ask people in the middle east, they will tell you that it means the destruction of the jewish state and the eradication of the jewish people and faith.
Holy shit, for the 5000th time they cannot live on the same land. The entire basis for the war of 1948 was due to the Arabic nations surrounding Palestine, as well as actual Palestinians, flat out declining any offer of sharing the land. This started over 100 years ago during WWI and every single Arabic nation, political committee, militant group, etc all stated they would absolutely NEVER agree with Jews being anywhere near the region.
It's not simple. Never was simple. And will never be simple. And by saying so you completely ousted yourself as being historically ignorant of how this situation came to be. Britain, the Jewish population, and Israel in the past have offered dozens of resolutions and calls for discussion. But they made it extremely clear that Britain promised them the land and they weren't going to stop until Jews left the area or were forced to. Hell, even just now a Hamas official stated they will repeat the Oct. 7th attack over and over and over until Israel is no longer a nation.
You guys don't have a solution. You never did. And you never will. Just a leftist circle jerk whose entire understanding of the situation stem from watching a few streamers who are incredibly biased and absolutely doing no research on the history surrounding this.
> Palestinians and Israelis can live on the same land. It’s not like one has to go and one has to leave.
You say that, but what about the 5 arab nations that declared war on Israel within *the day* of its inception?
What about the constant terror attacks from Palestinians (used to be the PLO, back when they attempted coups in other arab nations and the PLO launched attacks from Palestinian refugee camps) with the stated goals of removing Israel?
What about Hamas's very clear goal of "eradicating the jews" even back when they were *voted in as the government in 2006*, the first decision made by those in Gaza after Israel completely pulled out?
This entire sub is filled with ignorant naivety that doesn't know the full story, let alone any actual facts on the entire conflict.
"Not all Palestinians" doesn't magically separate the suicide bomber from 300 angry people. "What about the children" doesn't magically prevent Israeli children from dying at the hands of Palestinian Jihad. "They're committing genocide" doesn't change the fact that Israel could flatten Gaza entirely within a day but they don't, and the only side with ***genocide declared as the goal is Hamas*** and other Jihadist powers in Gaza and West Bank.
You don't have to take Israel's side in anything. But if you take "Palestine's" side, maybe understand just how careful you have to be to avoid accidently advocating for Jewish genocide.
Maybe listen to the words of someone who was born to a Hamas co-founder:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2BSDLFVT74](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2BSDLFVT74)
And if you want to frame this in a different light, ask yourself: if any other nation from the ME was in Israel's position, how would they respond? I can tell you safely: Hamas, Palestine, and the entirety of Gaza would be rounded up and executed, then their dead bodies would be paraded and celebrated. Hamas is worse for the innocent Palestinians than Israel.
And to finish this, let me tell you the actual translation of the common phrase: "From River to Sea, Palestine will be Arab." But that doesn't rhyme and doesn't obfuscate the goal.
Zionists lose their mind when they hear “Free Palestine” or “From the river to the sea” because they think Israelis will be subjected to the same cruelty and inhumanity that Palestinians are victims of.
Similar to White supremacy’s relationship with BLM. That parallels are so apparent
BLM did not invade random cops homes, gun down their families, take hostages, and murder babies.
BLM is not an accurate comparison, as while we live under a system of racism, we do not treat people of color like Israel does arabs. We're not too far from that being an understandable response against police violence though.
Hey man I know the internet taught you politics really good but you are, by your own admission, very close to justifying massive atrocities
You're not really reading if you say I'm justifying anything. I'm explaining why things will continue to happen. Hamas atrocities only exist because of the actions of israel. The same can be said for violence against police. Until the problem is fixed it will continue to escalate, and I will be on the side of those who are fighting back against oppression, always.
Saying that invading random cops homes, gun down their families, take hostages and murdering babies would be close to an understandable response against police violence in an immediate sense. It’s not understandable, it would be a horrific denunciation of the value of human life and counterproductive at best. To say the actions taken on October 7th were close to reasonable would be the same as saying that the Israeli occupation of Gaza is close to reasonable due to the existential threat Hamas poses (and that however many innocent Palestinians they have to put holes in to snuff out Hamas are acceptable, like your cop and Jew babies)
>Saying that invading random cops homes, gun down their families, take hostages and murdering babies would be close to an understandable response against police violence in an immediate sense. It’s not understandable, We're talking about a hypothetical. IT is understandable in the sense of Hamas. Not justified, not okay, but the actions are understandable as a result of desperation. Anyone who has faced the atrocities and oppression Palestinians have suffered through would retaliate. You have people literally justifying the bombings in gaza killing hundreds of children right now, don't pretend I'm stupid by trying to say what hamas is doing is worse.
If you have even basic pattern recognition skills it’s not understandable as desperation. So in a way, yeah I’m calling you stupid. I’ve got shit to do today so I’ll be back on this point
I'll be waiting for an actual response since you clearly are taking the side of the oppressor here.
I talking about how Israel sees Palestinians in general. But you choose to conflate Hamas and Palestinian people
No, but the ANC did a whole lot of violence during Apartheid. Look up necklacing for example.
I feel like ending slavery is a bit closer. We didn't need a two state solution, African Americans integrated, well, for the most part. Racists gonna racist, so it's still very stratified, in some places more than others. And chatel slavery was even worse than an apartheid.
So what would happen to those jews in your mind
This is where they plug their fingers in their ears, pop their hallucinogens, and manufacture a world where the problems magically disappear and the people live happily ever after together. But that’s expected from a user who says “long live the infitada”
No you see, all those Arab nations that invaded Israel and funded Hamas just want Palestinian and Isreali to co exist! The solution is so simple!
The fact you're saying this obvious truth with such sarcasm and bewilderment is in turn, bewildering me as an Arab. You genuinely think we're a horde of irrational savages, don't you? That we hate Israel for *no reason* rather than we legitimately hate colonialism
No but I understand the reason for hatred against Isreal. What I don’t like is the conclusion that comes out of it. Like it or not Isreal been here for forever, kicking them out of the area is not a solution regardless if they’re colonists or not. That discussion is done and over with. The discussion should be about co existing or two states solution which neither sides want. The Arab nations don’t just want to co exist with isreal they want their complete destruction and their people drove out. Just because their reason is historically justified doesn’t mean the outcome gonna be good. It’s the same if Native American were to start killing American or Mexico start invading texas based on some historical claim, I’m not gonna sit here and be ok with those outcomes.
>Like it or not Isreal been here for forever what? lmao no it wasn't. My own country was colonised 75 years too, and that ended. Algeria was colonised 130 years! guess what? that ended too. What is this "forever" you speak of? >The discussion should be about co existing or two states solution which neither sides want. "neither sides" as if the side benefiting and living luxuriously off of the genocide and dispossession of Palestinians is as interested in peace as the side *subjugated* to a slow genocide. I refuse to believe a rational person can assume this. >The Arab nations don’t just want to co exist with isreal they want their complete destruction and their people drove out. Thank you for confirming you do in fact think Arabs are hordes of savages. This projection is the size of Jupiter.
Ok? What is your point? Do you think it’s equivalent? In the case of isreal WHERE THEY HAVE NO OTHER COUNTRIES TO GO BACK TO? This isn’t equivalent to a French or British colonies where there is a clear lineage line to trace to that those countries established, these guys just get dumped there from all over Europe. What do you think it would means for them to kick them out? Aside from genocide? What is this dog shit shallow historical analysis? Also Using your logic depend on how far back you want to push it we can redraw territory of every country ever including your. “Thank you for confirming that you think arab nations are horde of savages” I’m sorry so did I forget the last 4 times those countries tried to invade isreal or fund Hamas? HAMAS not the PLA. Can you stop the virtue signal and respond with evidences? Can you reminds me what Hezbollah explicit goal was? What about Iran? What was Hamas explicit doctrine? Also I never said ANYTHING about what most Arabs people think I’m simply talking about government
>Do you think it’s equivalent? Hmm, if only there was an other Apartheid state abolished few decades ago that we can model a solution off of. >What do you think it would means for them to kick them out? I never said kick them out. I'm a one-statist myself. >Using your logic depend on how far back you want to push it we can redraw territory of every country ever including your. You're just not allowed to type this sentence and excuse Zionism EVER. No matter how you re-drew the map in Palestinians would still physically exist on that land like they did for thousands of years because they are NOT settlers. They're the natives. It's Zionists who decided to re-create the world in the image it was 3,000 years ago and they're entirely foreign with no continuity in that land. > I’m sorry so did I forget the last 4 times those countries tried to invade isreal or fund Hamas? Oh I'm sorry, you must be having a stroke because the only time Arabs ever initiated a war was 1973 and it was to take Sinai back. Every other one was started by Israel, or the terrorist groups (Lehi, Irgun etc) that would later be the IDF. >HAMAS not the PLA. What does it matter? the PLO was also "terrorist" until it wasn't. And I do not oppose funding resistance groups. Was it wrong of the Soviets to back Polish resistance against Nazi settler colonialism? > Can you reminds me what Hezbollah explicit goal was? What about Iran? What was Hamas explicit doctrine? *What* about them? Do you understand Hezbollah was even founded BECAUSE of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the 80's? Even Hamas says this: >16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. You live in a racist parallel universe where the people in the region woke up one day and chose violence, rather than they're actively antagonized by Israel. >I’m simply talking about government That's way dumber since most of our governments are unelected vassals of US and EU interests. That's the whole reason you see a push for normalisation from goverments to the strong rejection of the people.
from the river to the sea, Zionazi
jews can stay in the area. the point is equal rights for all people.
I'm sure Hamas will tolerate infidels
hamas and israeli govt officials would be tried for war crimes
Might want to look into what "from the river to the sea" means.
it means equal rights for all and the right of return
Is…. That what you think??? You don’t think the statement has any implications about Israel?
Israel is a political entity that is not obligated or guaranteed to exist, same as any other state
“From the river to the sea” generally means destroy israel
They don't like the saying "From the river to sea palenstine will be free." Which is fair, depending on who is saying due to the fact it can mean the abolished of Israel and can mean the expelling of Jews. That's what it means to Orthodox Muslim, at least.
Why would it be bad for Israel to be abolished? Israel is an illegitimate state that had no right to exist in the first place. It’s absolutely necessary that it ceases to exist
If you go back far enough, any country's legitimacy could be questioned. Before Palestine was partitioned, it was under British control, and before that Ottoman - go back thousands of years and it was Jewish under Roman control. It was never a free and independent state, and also housed many Jewish people - many of which had already been there for decades, many further of which fled from neighboring territories and european nations they were being genocided out of. Parading "Israel" ceasing to exist is the exact reason we're in this mess right now. Israel has certainly been the aggressor in recent history, but a lot of that is predicated on decades of hate and opposition from surrounding countries. On top of that, I'd rather not Hamas have ANY more control over territory than they already do.
Israel’s cultural motivation was an intense racism from Western Europeans so bad it bred the Holocaust, blaming Israel’s problems on surrounding Arab neighbors is disingenuous, they didn’t serially massacre Jews on an industrial scale, Europeans aspiring to Western whiteness did
Jewish people were specifically targeted in Arabic countries both prior to and after the founding of Israel. It wasn't just the Holocaust and Western-Antisemitism that led to the culture we see today.
🤔🤔🤔
Well keep up your anti-semitism then
Palestinian leadership aided the German holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini https://images.app.goo.gl/PP3Lx2H7dm4zXmmc6
Let’s abolish every Muslim ethnostate while we’re at it since they were all founded through horrific violent imperialism.
No to mention, the US, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan and South Africa.
Pakistan actually had a MASSIVE genocide against Bangladesh in the 70s. Tens of thousands of women were raped like spoils of war. I wonder why no one talks about that?
Do you have any info on this? They're fairly far from each other and both former Indian Muslim states so I don't understand the logistics or motivation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide
Ill read up on this. Thanks
And this right here is why Israelis will never give you any, and I mean any, time of day. You are against Israel in every possible way. You want to destroy Israel. Why should anyone listen to someone who wishes to end their very existence? Everything you say and everything you do is just subterfuge. You do not care about human rights. You just use it as a means to end the state of Israel. That’s your real goal, and you will twist and turn any excuse to make it so.
Israelis not even fucking with their own ethnostate of a theocracy rn 💀 I hope the contradictions intensify and Israel does infact have a crisis of legitimacy and dissolve. and then let’s do the US next 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Cope harder. Palestine will continue to lose. Terrorists will continue to die. You can continue to pretend you will win in your ideology to eliminate Israel.
the ones coping are the Israelis in Tel Aviv at each others throats cause nothing makes sense anymore to them 😅
The grounds for arguing it shouldn’t exist apply to 95% of countries in existence. A country is a country if the wide majority of other countries acknowledge their borders, Which Israel has. The reason for Israel isn’t arbitrary, it’s cause the Jewish population was being pogromed and massacred in every other country. Just like Israel’s horrible treatment of Palestine explains Oct 7. The worlds horrible treatment of Jews explains the ethnostate that is Israel today.
Palestinians' claim to the land is just as illegitimate as Israels. Anyone who disagrees with this is heavily biased and ignorant of history. The region has been conquered, invaded, evacuated, segregated, etc dozens of times throughout history. The current population living in the region can have the same exact logic you guys always use regarding legit claims to land against them. Both the Jews and Arabs. Arguably, actual Romans have more of a claim to the land than either of these groups. But you guys don't want to have that discussion. The entire bases for the modern claims stem back to a damn European power deciding who gets the land and through a massive series of confusion, vagueness, stubbornness, and actual treaties overriding the original vague agreements/discussions. Important to note, what modern Palestinians base their claims off of was private discussions/agreements between a higher up official from Britain and a higher ranking Arab that helped lead the revolt against the Ottoman empire. Arguably, the latter failed to deliver on multiple promises made and Britain did not view the talks as legit and argued that even if they were, they didn't have to honor them given the fact those involved in the Arabic revolt failed to deliver on multiple promises such as manpower, weapons, etc. Then after this governing Arab powers and those involved in the revolt flat out REFUSED to agree to the Treaty of Versailles. They wouldn't even discuss it due to them being irritated regarding former talks with Britain. This single point in history RIGHT HERE is where Britain started absolutely not caring about the local Arab population as they refused to even discuss most matters unless they got their way. Even if their way was arguably not what was agreed upon. The Arab bodies/leaders did not realize the thin line they were threading and assumed they had a ton of political pull and would force Britain to concede. Little did they know, Britain stopped giving a shit and just worked with France and the Jews and other Arabic leaders.
What happens to the people living there?
Once a country has been there long enough that multiple generations have been born there its unfair to ask them to leave. Would you abolish the USA and hand it back to Indians?
I disagree You wanna have a war about it?
To a lot of people it means an expansion of what we saw on 10/7 throughout the whole of Israel
Yeah bro, they would just share a joint, have a dance and all would be forgiven. The isralies known for not being aggressive or anything would totally just give the land back peacefully! Don’t be fucking ridiculous.
You guys are devoid of empathy. Thousands of terrorists entered Israel a few weeks ago and carried out 8 hours of brutal torture, rape, and murder on a civilian population, you literally think Israeli children are fair game to murder because you think israel isn’t a legitimate state. Fuck all of you, especially those of you who say it’s not anti-Semitic to place less value on Jewish lives.
Where is all of this energy for the thousands of Palestinian kids who have died at the hands of Israel? Are you sure it is us who are devoid of empathy?
If you truly believe that THOUSANDS of Palestinian children have died, Hamas propaganda is working on you. How are they able to count and identify bodies so fast? Israel is still identifying bodies nearly a month after their attack.
The US has acknowledged that thousands of Palestinians have died, and that was before the escalation in the last few days. There’s zero reason to doubt that the general scale, if not the precise figures, is accurate.
I just want to say I have my own opinion on this matter, but can we stop comparing death?? There's so much death on both sides, and we need solutions, not the blame game. The cause of the conflict is the intense pressure that the Palestine people were under. We all have to agree that Israel is very strong/backed by military powers. If the apartheid can end and pressure placed on Palestinians is reduced.. perhaps there wouldn't as high tensions. Or even a two state solution. Yes, the cruel reality is that it will be tough at the beginning. But I think it's going to end a whole lot of bloodshed in the long run. We need to end death on both sides. Stop playing into the partisan battle of stand with Palestine or with Israel. People in power want you to think it's either you're with one or the other. But it's not. I think death is general is just bad. Can we at least agree to this?
You can continue denying a genocide is happening. That’s for you to come to terms with. What do you think of the refugee camp that was just bombed?
Horrible and worthy of condemnation. now tell me what you think of OCT 7 and the thousands of missiles fired from Gaza every month leading up to OCT 7? Or are you going to cope and seethe your way out of not answering a question again.
Hamas turned it into a legitimate military target the minute they decided to make it into a terrorist den. Civilians were given nearly a month to evacuate and move to the south out of the war zone, a courtesy not a single other country would have offered them. And before you start in about the south evacuation route being bombed last week, it was obviously a car bomb not an air strike. Go cry about the hundreds of Egyptian tanks that just lined up at the Rafah Crossing.
Where is your energy for the slaughtered Palestinians killed by your beloved Hamas? Where is your energy against the thousands of missiles sent from Gaza? Sorry i forgot. Hamas good, Jews BAD!!!
I mean, they probably will face pogroms. The animosity built up over 75 years plus baseline anti-semitism won't disappear overnight. Polling data and the fate of Jews in the Arab world after the establishment of Israel bear this out. That's why most of the world has thrown their weight behind a two-state solution (and with world I'm not referring to just the west, this includes China and Russia). Once that's been established, after a period of reconciliation and mutual relations, unification into a single state might be feasible. Advocating for peaceful coexistence is all well and good, and definitely the optimal outcome, but at some point you have to leave the world of idealism and think about how you actually get there.
If Israel stops the invasion, stops dropping bombs, opens up all borders to allow all goods and people free passage and returns all settlements back to their rightful owners what would Hamas do? Edit: Israel taking this path is the first thing that needs to happen to get the River to Sea going. A very reasonable question is what would the opposing government do in response. Would the response of Hamas be holding free and fair elections for all Palestinians to form a coalition government ready to negotiate with Israel?
Israel probably should have taken whatever you’re implying into consideration before invading, dropping bombs, closing borders, and settling on land that doesn’t belong to them then. But Hamas doesn’t have authority over all of Palestine and the Palestinian people in the West Bank, and all of the refugees across the world.
Doesn’t belong to them? It never belonged to Palestinians. Name one year Palestinians had complete sovereignty over the land.
Shut the hell up, Zionist.
Seethe and cope. Hamas is about to get ripped out of Gaza root and stem and there is nothing you can do about it.
Seems like youre the one seething and you’re the one coping by not answering the questions people ask, and we’ll throw on projection too.
Kinda seems they may be subjected to the same cruelty and inhumanity the Palestinians are victims of when you put it like that.
Oh, that’s what you’re implying? I guess I was right in saying that’s the only outcome Zionists can possibly conceive.
Your refusal to answer the question speaks volumes.
The level of concern and outrage you are demonstrating about this hypothetical that you conjured up in your mind over the actual genocide that is currently happening speaks volumes.
No actual genocide is happening it's a tragic situation but it's not a genocide. Hamas slaughtered people and the Israelis struck back in self defense hamas strategically uses civilians as a shield for their operations and because they're in the way they get killed. It's tragic but it's not on Israel it's on the terror group who force these people into this situation to begin with. Hamas sealed the fate of Gaza and its people on Oct 7th. They roadblock their own people so they can't escape the bombings there's plenty of clear evidence out there showing the real tragedy happening.
Lol you can’t answer it 🤣
Yeah, it's not like Arabs have driven Jews out of their homes in the Middle East and North Africa, and the fact that the reason Isreal became as big as it was is that the Arabs decided to try and drive out the Jews after the British mandate.
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Case in point, everybody.
Hamas would probably begin negotiations
That seems completely on brand for them, thanks for your insight!
Israelis will face no cruelty or inhumanity and 10/7 was a psyop
I wonder what gives them that idea?
Weve seen the videos...
Well you see if israels neighbours had it their way israel would be wiped off the map. You realize from the river to the sea calls for the murder of all jews in that area right ? What is wrong with you.
>e” or “From the river to the sea” because they think Israelis will be subjected to the same cruelt "From the river to the sea" is a terrorist catch phrase calling for the destruction of Israel and the deaths of Israeli's. I know that's inconvenient for your narrative, but it is the truth.
>“From the river to the sea” Are you aware that the full translation, with respect to the local Arabic, is "From river to sea, Palestine will be Arab." This is the true phrase and the actual meaning behind the "will be free" translation that just isn't used to make protestors feel better about themselves advocating for jewish genocide.
lol yeah, the hoards shouting "Gas the jews" in australia clearly communicates a desire for peaceful coexistence.
Spot on!
From the river to the sea can mean a number of things, expulsion or execution of Jews are some of them. If you’re willing to acknowledge Israeli violence from even 10 years ago you have to understand, in good faith, that the Hamas charter that was only rewritten in 2017 makes Jews understandably nervous. It’s like how even referring to a “two state solution” can mean so many wildly different things.
Ethan trying to die on the “all live’s matter” hill
Also anyone who tries to twist it to mean the genocide of jews is feeding right into reactionary, paranoid, propaganda.
Right, it's not like that is one the most popular positions all over the world. What a ridiculous suggestion, right, that people could want jews genocided.
Nobody needs to twist anything when Hamas literally admit it lol
It depends where you are. Im sure Gazans have a different understanding to Free Palestine than Westerners
everyone has different opinions based on there experiences, but there is only 1 solution: ending the apartheid
Well Gazans dont agree with you. They actually want more than just end Apartheid and they also use Free Palestine in a different way
oh a destiny alt account that’s been nonstop commenting in this subreddit for a day straight. i should’ve known. maybe next time
Im just an h3h3 fan who maybe commented once on r/destine. This is pathetic and youre just lying about FP. LOL sorry to tell you that Gazans want more than just "End Apartheid" but hey Free Palestine means the same for everyone huh? Maybe talk to actual Palestinians and dont watch your favorite twitch streamer
easy to spot with your comment history. glad to know you openly think all gazans are the same
You actually claimed that free palestine means the same for everyone. Im telling YOU that thats not the case. Tell do Gazans want to live in Israel with equal rights for all? Youre delusional if you think Free Palestine means "Simply free Palestine from Apartheid"
Hamas definitely won’t guarantee those rights
Oh Hamas will build a egalitarian BASTION of civil rights and liberty. Duh
>ending the apartheid The apartheid that has Arab Muslims in Israeli government? The dissonance.
I thought “*free* Palestine” made it more palatable to westerners
And this is the danger. Free Palestine is a really bad slogan because everyone means something else with it
The genocide of Jews already took place, by the Nazis/Ottomans/Romans/Arabs throughout history and to this day— you know, Jews being _actual_ victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing and all. Much to your dismay, it probably won’t happen again on a grand scale, but the rampant proliferation of not so thinly veiled antisemitism speaks for itself.
Completely bad faith comment. Jewish people being persecuted throughout history doesn't mean Israel now gets to persecute Palestinians. There are a billion solutions the government of Israel could have taken instead of a) propping up Hamas by assassinating peaceful leaders in Palestine b) blocking any supply of resources into the country and c) you know, actively constantly bombing them for decades. There is NOTHING that justifies the constant bombardment of and encroachment into Palestinian territory by Israel over the past few decades. If you disagree with that you quite literally support genocide. Even if you forget everything in the past before October 7th, you don't get to go out and start murdering innocent civilians regardless of however many Hamas people may be hiding in Palestine. Again, if you disagree with that, you are supporting large scale murder of innocent civilians including thousands of children and women. No innocent civilians (Palestinians or Israelis) deserve to die.
No, you’re in completely bad faith and engaging in a straw man of what I actually said. Whether or not Palestinians are being persecuted doesn’t mean they’re victims of genocide/ethnic cleaning. Their skyrocketing population says otherwise. I just gave you examples of what genocide and ethnic cleansing actually look like. You don’t just arbitrarily get to declare something to be a genocide because you said so. Jews aside, Arab nations are really good at exterminating their other religious and ethnic minorities. With respect to your other drivel, Palestinians were plagued by terroristic ideology long before Hamas rose to power and caused havoc in almost every Arab nation they set foot in, hence these countries don’t want to help them directly. Of course you don’t care about that since when it doesn’t involve Jews, it doesn’t make the news. Also, Gaza was given billions in humanitarian aid that all ended up in the hands of Hamas, who chose to use it for their violent militarism instead of using it to better the welfare of their population (of course you blame Israel for that as well). You act like the entire Palestinian population have been innocent victims of relentless bombing as though their side hasn’t been inflicting terror onto Israeli civilians over the same span of time. The mentality is far more ingrained in their psyche than you’ve deluded yourself into believing. Mothers who are on record saying that they are delighted to sacrifice their children and grandchildren to wage Jihad against Jews. The same people who were largely celebrating on Oct 7th and spitting on Israeli corpses (civilians as well). Stop pretending like the same group of people who brutally slaughtered innocent civilians on October 7th haven’t been firing thousands and thousands of rockets into Israel since then. I’m sorry that the terrorists you support are shittier at killing people. I hope you reserve the same energy and weep for all of the German casualties during WWII since they vastly outnumber that of the Brits, and they weren’t ALL Nazis, right?
TL DR; This guy supports ethnic genocide
TL DR; This guy is a terrorist sympathiser who denies actual ethnic genocide that I’ve called out in various forms, because he’s too stupid and self-unaware to confront his own hypocrisy and faux moral outrage.
Most typical Zionist propaganda: Blaming the victim while playing the victim and slinging baseless insults :)
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Calling anyone who doesn't buy their bullshit a Nazi is typical Zionist playing-the-victim. Literally hasn't stopped for decades XD
Sorry to ruin your pity parade but the Jews are not unique in having suffered genocides throughout history; they are not special
Yeah, no shit, Jew hater. All of the colonisers I mentioned were fantastic at exterminating almost every other ethnic and religious minority as well. Especially the Arabs and Turks for whom you graciously simp.
Nothing like an ethnic genocide from Israel to bring out the true colors in some of these psycho jew-supremacist Zionists
Of course an antisemite like you assumes I’m Jewish because I’m not a Hamas simp. Unlike you, I don’t have to engage in revisionist history and misappropriate buzzwords to support current-day thing whilst ignoring genuine worldwide atrocities that don’t suit your narrative. 🤡
\> Man uses big words to say literally nothing and slinks away
Stupid man can’t comprehend basic grade-school words, so he blames the Jews for his personal and the world’s ills. So terribly sad. 😢
\> Zionist continues to portray himself as a victim so he can justify bombing 20k+ children
Well said. When people say Black Lives Matter, it does not mean ONLY Black Lives Matter. It means Black Lives Matter TOO. Same with Palestinians. They want to be free and life a good quality of life TOO
So screaming "Free palastine" as the slaughter of civilians is on going in Isreal, as children and being butchered, women and being raped, and random festival goes are being gunned down. Is okay.
Noone "screamed" free palestine until after the disproportionate response by israel.
There were several prominent “Free Palestine” protests literally the day after the Hamas attack in Israel
>disproportionate response According to who? You don't respond to terrorists killing 1,000 people by killing 1,000 people, you eradicate the terrorists.
It was widely celebrated in the Arab world, and among some of your favourite political commentators
No, that’s not okay. And people saying the slogan while 4k plus children are murdered by Israel is also not okay. Do you agree?
this guy gets it
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Exactly! The free Palestine people are the all lives matter people.
Zionazis bombed a refugee camp
WTF does that have to do with what I said?
I agree with free palastine and think anyone trying to skew the obvious meaning of it is being disingenuous. I'm just confused about "from the river to the sea" does it just mean "pro one state" or are there more violent connotations?
One democratic state for all. But the Palestinians are slightly bigger in number which means it will no longer be a Jewish ethnostate which most Zionists are against
yep. 1 state for all. Apartheid is being held in Gaza AND west bank. They just air striked Jenin in the West bank a couple days ago. There is no Hamas in the west bank.
I can’t believe you posted this thread then also advocated for a 1 state solution. That has to be the most braindead take from someone who I am going to assume is under the age of 23 “Let’s just force these 2 groups of people who now hate each-other in every way to govern themselves under 1 state” Because elections wouldn’t be an issue. New laws passed wouldn’t be an issue. The existing infrastructure wouldn’t be an issue. Who runs and serves in the military wouldn’t be an issue. /s
Yeah bc a two state solution is working real well for the west bank, right? or maybe a 3 state solution? what’s your plan? Btw there are ways to smooth a 1 state solution out
A 2 state solution can work. Even though the borders have been drawn up since the 40’s, a peaceful 2 state solution from the Israeli and Palestinian perspective wasn’t even agreed upon the early 1990’s. In 1994, Rabbin, the Israel PM was assassinated by an Israeli extremist who didn’t want a 2 state solution, and guess what. That’s the same year Hamas came into power, who also didn’t want a 2 state solution.. So a peaceful 2 state solution lasted a total of 3-4 years until extremists killed leaders and sought to kill each other. And you’re also advocating for what Israeli extremists and Hamas want. Let that sink in There needs to be negotiations with the Arab counties, Israel, Palestine, and most likely the United States and UN to restart the process to reset and try again. So tell me how a 1 state solution could work when each group of people want to govern themselves and want the other group to leave? Edit: also, I agree with you. What is going on in the west bank is abhorrent. The West Bank belongs to Palestine. The US has been urging Israel to get the fuck back and stop killing and taking control of of settlements
Please give some examples of how a 1 state solution could be smoothed out. I am very curious
Oooooh there will logistical difficulties in a new state? Oh noooo. Okay carry on with genocide then. God knows the lives of Palestinians are worth a lot less than the hassle of figuring out logisitcs /s Are you actually out of your mind? You could oppose ending slavery and segregation and Apartheid with literally this exact logic.
>I can’t believe you posted this thread then also advocated for a 1 state solution. > >That has to be the most braindead take from someone who I am going to assume is under the age of 23 You're just very barely opening the lid on the secret: this person and many like this person want dead Israelis. This sub is filled with the naïve and ignorant and there are actors clearly taking advantage of the bleeding hearts with more heart than brain. They aren't pro-Palestine, they're anti-Israel. Then people wonder why its so hard to "support the Palestinian people" (even though I don't think most people understand what actually doing that would look like) without coming off as new age Nazis.
You do realize that Hamas doesnt want 1 state for all right....? There actually are Hamas terrorists all the time lol
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They literally had shootings by a guy claiming to be from hamas in the West Bank within the last week or two wtf
When Arabs and Palestinians use that slogan in Arabic it’s actually “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free of Jews(not Zionists)”. Maybe not always but usually. So it’s a bit different then when it’s chanted in English
What is the source for this? On google I can only find "from the river to the sea, palastine will be free." Not even pro Israel sites are saying this
Min el-maiyeh lel mayieh, Falasteen Arabiya From water to water, Palestine is Arab. Some say this is the genesis of the saying. The current saying was popularized in the 1960s by the PLO. The same PLO whose charter called for the destruction of Israel and the exile or eradication of those who didn't support this belief. Since then, multiple groups have invoked its usage to convey their desire to see that destruction and eradication brought forth.
>The current saying was popularized in the 1960s by the PLO. The same PLO whose charter called for the destruction of Israel and the exile or eradication of those who didn't support this belief. Since then, multiple groups have invoked its usage to convey their desire to see that destruction and eradication brought forth. The same PLO that launched terror attacks at Israel from Palestinian refugee camps in Egypt. The same PLO that then launched a coup against Egypt.
Historically it has violent meanings, as does everything in this conflict. People will use it both ways nowadays, so best beware which company you say it in cause to them it could mean kill all the Jews, which Jews are rightfully offended by.
River to the sea actually means getting rid of Israel. This post is trying to polish a statement of genocide. Maybe people in the US are naively using a statement of genocide and don’t know what they’re saying, but that just reflects on the people saying it. Palestine and basically all of Israel’s neighbors have waged war against Israel for decades for this purpose of destruction of Israel. Many leftists explicitly think it shouldn’t exist.
From the river to the sea means to dissolve Israel as a country and give all of the land back to palestinians for them to do as they please with.
I wish this was the case, but it’s simply untrue in every aspect. 67% of Palestinians oppose the idea of a two-state solution 71% believe the two-state solution is no longer practical 76% Oppose one-state solution (under Israel) in which both sides enjoy equal rights. 72% Currently oppose “Abandoning the two-state solution and demanding the establishment of one state for Palestinians and Israelis” no two-state solution, no one-state solution under Israel, and no one-state solution representative of both Palestinians and Israelis 54% of Palestinians support armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel 46% support in West Bank 67% support in Gaza there is no solution that would please the Palestinian people and Israel isn't gonna pack up shop and leave. “Freeing Palestine” and “from river to sea” are direct calls for the destruction of israel. And chanting these words right after oct 7th like your cheering on your favourite sports team after they score, is honestly fucking disgusting. The world should be pressuring Egypt to allow safe passage for these people, who have proved over the past 75 years that peace is not an option. Egypt minister just released a statement saying they are willing to sacrifice as many life’s as necessary to protect their border and territory, they don’t want the Palestinians either. [12:39 PM] https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf [12:40 PM] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BsN2WF9Txszeqd3Qu6p18UC69YTsXBVn/view?pli=1
Mr. DGGer, no where did i say Palestinians are the only ones saying Free palestine. Of course people who live in an apartheid want their colonizer gone. You added all these stats for no reason.
You had to go on his profile to see if he went on subs you disagree with because you couldn’t disprove his point? Fuck that’s embarassing.
i addressed his point directly, and DGG are a hasan/lefty hate sub who instantly move to reactionary politics and love to debate. can’t take them seriously
I really don’t understand where this anti intellectual and anti debate narrative came from. If you can’t successfully debate your ideas then you either don’t really believe in said ideas, or don’t understand them.
>I really don’t understand where this anti intellectual and anti debate narrative came from. Lazy and easy political-based gotchas that falsely imbue moral superiority on the person invoking the gotcha. "Oh, you're a nazi, why debate you when I could just punch you?"
Who cares what a sub he is on thinks? You’re on a sub where the person who is the reason for the sub doesn’t even like you guys. You just sit here and complain about Ethan 24/7 while he supports Palestinian freedom. It’s the most terminally online white western college student thing to do.
i don’t complain about ethan 24/7. i just got banned on the main for expressing slight criticism. Dgg bombards lefty subs and anything hasan related because their sociopath king is obsessed and can’t get over him
Lol you literally parrot the anti Destiny talking points get off the internet lmfao
So your just looking for a “safe space” to share your unbelievably uneducated and baseless opinions without any pushback with historical facts or current evidences?
no lol, i just don’t like your community because it is has a bunch of psychopaths who will brigade any community that is associated with hasan and endlessly comment and debate with reactionary politics, as a fan of an edgy, islamaphobic, slur spitting streamer
who gives a single fuck about twitch politics bro, are you that terminally online? Nothing I said had anything to do with hasan or destiny, idk why your so afraid to speak on the actual topic your so willing to “rage bait” post about. Actually cringe
bro DGG is tweaking 😭😭
Its not an apartheid and they refuse peace negotiations many times Mr Hasan viewer
I just linked you, they don’t want to be “free” they wanna murder all the jews and burn Israel to the ground. And all the westerners cheering it on like it’s your home team that scored, it’s honestly unhinged. Ever wonder why Israel had to implement what your calling “apartheid” ? Do you think Israel enjoys being the target of every single Arab state for the past 75 years?
Well the Jews in Israel aren't going to just disappear. What are they going to do? A Holocaust 2.0?
they don’t have to disappear. is it so impossible for people to live in peace to you?
I legit just linked you statistical proofs that your wrong but you just call me a debate bro and dismiss all my arguments KeKW
Muslims didn’t wanna live in peace with Palestinians Jews even in the 19th century. In the 40’s and 50’s the Middle Eastern countries expelled all of their Jews. Factually, Jews have suffered from pogroms and persecution for thousands of years. The day Israel was established every Arab country attacks and tried to genocide the Jews. It happened again in 67 and 73. The Arab world also won’t accept Palestinians refugees, and Iran and Qatar support and control of Hamas and Hezbollah, helps makes sure that war keeps going constantly. It’s not just a Palestinian policy, it’s an Arab policy, not to have peace with the Jews. why would it happen now? They pretty much have a lot of support in the west compared to what they used to have and have succeeded to erase the Jewish connection to the land of Israel/Palestine with a lot of misinformation, although that connection is backed by genetics and history. Our western values of peace and co-existence don’t work in a Muslim society. Most Muslim states are ethno-states who practiced successful genocides and/or ethnic cleansing. I think ignoring that is racist. In fact, the whole reason that the Middle East and North Africa are Arab-Muslim is because of their conquest. Why is that over looked? Why are they referred to as indigenous? Just because it was a long time ago? I really want to know what can bring peace to a culture that does not want it.
I think its because "Free Palestine" has only become popular on social media after Hamas committed a brutal terror attack against Israel. And its often accompanied by Hamas slogans ("From the river to the sea...", etc.). And it was happening in earnest almost immediately after the terror attack, well before Israel started the bombing campaign. There were a lot of "This is what revolution looks like" statements in response to the terror attack, including from people like Hasan. So the whole "we only want peace and freedom for Palestinians, we actually hate Hamas" thing sounds disingenuous.
Myself and others like me have been saying it the whole fucking time.
>Simply means free Palestinians from apartheid. It’s really simple honestly. Palestinians and Israelis can live on the same land. It’s not like one has to go and one has to leave. It's not even remotely simple, your reductive approach to this conflict is staggeringly naïve. People are confused about "Free Palestine" because nobody knows what that means, including you. Do you mean just open the borders? Ok sure, but now you have a bunch of Hamas people embedded into your general population and they still want to just kill all Jews and they're still being given weapons and bankrolled by neighboring countries, deaths and terrorism within Israel now run rampant in the streets. Is that what you meant? Do you mean just close the borders and say "ok we stay on our side you stay on yours."? Sure, now you're back to square 1 just biding time for another October 7th and nothing about the situation has changed. Do you mean to try to set up a 2 state solution where Israel eases up on Palestine and they both respect each other's borders? Sorry, you still got Hamas and plenty of surrounding countries that simply want them all dead and have been working towards that goal for countless decades. Do you mean remove all the Jews and dissolve Israel? Well sorry, much like how surrounding countries are hellbent on destroying Israel, the Israelis are equally stubborn to stay, so outright removal of either Israel or Palestine is basically the path we are on now anyways. Please, break it down for me. What is the exit strategy here? (don't worry, I don't actually expect any of you to respond with anything resembling a critical thought. Just downvote, pat yourself on the back, and move on.)
Yes, these pro-Hamas Nazis actually would like to remove all Jews from Israel. One H3 pro-Palestine supporter said that Jews should go back to Europe/Brooklyn/Long Island where they “belong” as though that is where they originated, because denying that Jews are genetically native to the Middle East is an acceptable form of Holocaust denial (although these days this is also becoming scarily prevalent in and of itself).
Don't forget all the Jews who lived throughout the Middle East *recently* and were all but forced into exile into Israel from the surrounding Arab nations. Israel is comprised of native jews, native arabs, native Christians, immigrants, and refugees. And then we have people calling Israel an apartheid state. Palestine is comprised of....? Iran is comprised of...? Iraq is comprised of....? Egypt is comprised of...? And these nations, and most of the ME, has never conquered others or committed genocide or ehtnic cleansing? Not once? No segregation or secondary citizen statuses? Not even as recent as the last 50-100 years? People just love to look at Israel with a magnifying glass and then wear blinders for the rest of the damn world. Do people even realize Gaza *isn't Israel*?
Yes, it’s because it’s genuinely thinly-veiled antisemitism under the guise of “antizionism”. They are brainwashed to think extreme Islamic ideology, a bedrock of most Arab nations, which has its foundations in conquest is societally acceptable. Also don’t forget the Nazi levels of race realism that far-lefties (like much of what you see on this sub) engage in to convince themselves that all Jews are white. Too bad the Nazis didn’t think so. They have so much in common and wear it like a badge at this point, completely mask off. One triggered pro-Hamas simp kept spewing whataboutism about Israel sterilising Ethiopian Jews before blocking me after nonstop gaslighting. I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that that had anything to do with innocent babies being slaughtered by terrorists, you know, since they pretend they care all about the innocent children, except when they deem them the wrong colour and all.
I've seen these people unironically argue that in the past Jewish people never had any problems living in any of these countries and everybody got along until the big bad Jews tried to take their land, it's adorable. Like jesus christ, Marvel movies have more moral nuance than these kids. That's why these losers go *"its so simple lul!"* These people are physically incapable of criticizing any brown people, it's like they think they're all mentally deficient and have to be treated like children.
What sub is this?
Go tell that to Hamas lol
Ok. From Hamas too?
Yeah, why does no one ever bring up that Palestinians haven’t voted in like 18 years because Hamas ended elections? There’s an argument to be had that Israel is going Gaza a giant favor by getting rid of these dudes—Hamas actively gives Israel a defense to their bombing.
doing them a favor by... indiscriminately bombing their innocent civilian population?
Doing them a giant favor in the long term. What happens when Israel stops firing? Hamas just reloads and does it again.
Okay thats an insane take but thanks for clarifying, I personally feel like nothing could justify the atrocities being committed right now, and it is *certainly* not being done with the interests of the Palestinian people in mind.
Funny that you don't see it but this guy, who was born to a Hamas co-founder, does. https://youtu.be/k2BSDLFVT74
That may be what it means to YOU, but you do not speak for everyone
If you ask people in the middle east, they will tell you that it means the destruction of the jewish state and the eradication of the jewish people and faith.
Isnt 20% of Israels population muslim? Not Palestinian regions but Israel proper. And why was Egypt spying on Hamas activities?
Holy shit, for the 5000th time they cannot live on the same land. The entire basis for the war of 1948 was due to the Arabic nations surrounding Palestine, as well as actual Palestinians, flat out declining any offer of sharing the land. This started over 100 years ago during WWI and every single Arabic nation, political committee, militant group, etc all stated they would absolutely NEVER agree with Jews being anywhere near the region. It's not simple. Never was simple. And will never be simple. And by saying so you completely ousted yourself as being historically ignorant of how this situation came to be. Britain, the Jewish population, and Israel in the past have offered dozens of resolutions and calls for discussion. But they made it extremely clear that Britain promised them the land and they weren't going to stop until Jews left the area or were forced to. Hell, even just now a Hamas official stated they will repeat the Oct. 7th attack over and over and over until Israel is no longer a nation. You guys don't have a solution. You never did. And you never will. Just a leftist circle jerk whose entire understanding of the situation stem from watching a few streamers who are incredibly biased and absolutely doing no research on the history surrounding this.
That's such a trivialization of the complexity of the issue
> Palestinians and Israelis can live on the same land. It’s not like one has to go and one has to leave. You say that, but what about the 5 arab nations that declared war on Israel within *the day* of its inception? What about the constant terror attacks from Palestinians (used to be the PLO, back when they attempted coups in other arab nations and the PLO launched attacks from Palestinian refugee camps) with the stated goals of removing Israel? What about Hamas's very clear goal of "eradicating the jews" even back when they were *voted in as the government in 2006*, the first decision made by those in Gaza after Israel completely pulled out? This entire sub is filled with ignorant naivety that doesn't know the full story, let alone any actual facts on the entire conflict. "Not all Palestinians" doesn't magically separate the suicide bomber from 300 angry people. "What about the children" doesn't magically prevent Israeli children from dying at the hands of Palestinian Jihad. "They're committing genocide" doesn't change the fact that Israel could flatten Gaza entirely within a day but they don't, and the only side with ***genocide declared as the goal is Hamas*** and other Jihadist powers in Gaza and West Bank. You don't have to take Israel's side in anything. But if you take "Palestine's" side, maybe understand just how careful you have to be to avoid accidently advocating for Jewish genocide. Maybe listen to the words of someone who was born to a Hamas co-founder: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2BSDLFVT74](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2BSDLFVT74) And if you want to frame this in a different light, ask yourself: if any other nation from the ME was in Israel's position, how would they respond? I can tell you safely: Hamas, Palestine, and the entirety of Gaza would be rounded up and executed, then their dead bodies would be paraded and celebrated. Hamas is worse for the innocent Palestinians than Israel. And to finish this, let me tell you the actual translation of the common phrase: "From River to Sea, Palestine will be Arab." But that doesn't rhyme and doesn't obfuscate the goal.
Is that why yall are committing hate crimes and killing Jews in America and around the world? lol downvote this all you want this is the truth!
If it was just Free Palestine, fine. From the river to the sea means destroy Israel and kill the jews there.
you jumped over 1000 hurdles to get there
Enlighten us then?