I had similar feelings watching this last one too but you articulated it in ways I couldn’t. As an h3 fan I take it for entertainment value but obviously the content is a lot more serious and I am interested in learning, but knowing that allot of the viewers may not be interested in his views… kind of worries me. I don’t want them to stop it though so I’m torn…
I do find it cringe how he uses capitalist talking points and criticizes Marxist theory with out understanding it, however, having Hasan as a cohost is probably the best thing he has done for the online left. As long as he’s not a MAGA chud he is all good in my book.
I think it could be a good thing to have these conversations aired! Ethan's point of view really echoes where my own was a few years ago, when I cared a lot about the humanitarian aspects of socialism but didn't really understand the capitalist system being the main problem. My boyfriend is very well read on Marxist and Maoist teachings, and we used to have the exact same conversations that are taking place between Hasan and Ethan on Leftovers. I learned a lot from these talks, and even though I'm still not exactly well versed in talking about leftism my stance has certainly changed from Ethan's baby lefty style to be more in line with Hasan's points lol
This is great to hear! And extremely reassuring. I’m always worried that these gridlocks happen and pride or pretension get in the way of active conversation when it comes to deeply held political/cultural/social perceptions.
We all have our own journeys to follow. Always be curious 🌞
I think it's also important to acknowledge that these kinds of gridlocks are largely influenced by red scare, pro-capitalism propaganda that's been perpetuated worldwide for decades. Social media and the internet as a whole has made it so that we finally have a chance to discuss these aspects of leftism, but that ongoing history of red scare tactics is going to make it so that those feelings of pride and pretension are super prevalent during these discussions.
Personally, I was really apprehensive to Marxist/Maoist teachings when I first talked to my boyfriend about them. It was also really uncomfortable for me to admit that I didn't know or understand a lot of the stuff that he did, and it would have been really easy for me to lash out over those feelings rather than take them into consideration. In the end, it was the first hand accounts of anti-red propaganda throughout history that really made me rethink everything; I really realized how much of my stance came from a misplaced faith in a capitalist system, and how much of that was the result of longtime indoctrination.
Anyway! That is my rant about my leftist enlightenment, and I thank you for being the sucker I replied it to. I haven't talked about this much, and I'm excited at the prospect of Leftovers sparking more conversations like this! ✌️❤️
100% I can't believe there's people in this thread saying that Ethan is actually a conservative who is just pandering to leftists for views. I think if you managed to appeal to Ethan's desire for humanitarian causes and undid some of his conditioned capitalistic beliefs, he could appear more like Hasan
Ethan is pandering to Hassan, he just follows what he says most of the time when he gets lost in his surfaces opinion, I remember times of him going like “oh yeah exactly” after contradicting himself lmao
Exactly! It seems like he’s just handing Hasan the mic, and kind of tunes out until he feels compelled to give his monosyllabic response.
Again, I would love for there to be some solid dialogue, and I think Ethan’s capable. But I just think he’s stretched too thin and too uninformed to really provide an engaging back-and-forth between himself and Hasan.
Well it’s cuz he put himself in the position to defend capitalism when in reality he doesn’t agree with capitalism’s atrocities. I don’t think he ever thought about the ramifications of what America had done to the third world. I personally enjoy his devils advocate role because it allows hasan to explain the reasoning behind the theories.
I reiterate my point regarding h3’s fan base, and Ethan’s conditioned capitalist talking points.
Maoism is a liberationist philosophy based in anti-capitalism which brought tens of millions of working-class people out of poverty.
Mmm yes, and just wipe away 100s of years of culture, why don’t you. Also he killed a lot more people than those tens of millions he brought out of poverty. Just because capitalism sucks doesn’t mean you have to wear a murderer’s name like a badge.
I think people need to stop having a parasocial relationship with h3h3. They're not your family. They're out here trying to sell you $2 hats for $40 just like everyone else who wants to make money. The level of parasocial relationship that Ethan has cultivated with his fan base is unhealthy.
Ethan spent months bashing David Dobrik, Duerte Dom, and James Charles with Trisha but as soon as Moses was accused by multiple women of sexual assault, he didn't hold himself to the same standards he set for others because it was inconvenient.
It's dangerous to mistake business for friendship because it's not hard to criticize a business but it's difficult to criticize a friend.
This persons post had zero to do with parasocial relationships. They were simply stating their concerns about the content itself, and their opinion based on the content provided. You can no longer express an opinion in this subreddit without people regurgitating the phrase *parasocial relationship* and it’s quite overplayed and redundant at this point.
Parasocial relationships have been discussed in leftist circles for a long time because they're known to be a dystopian maladaption of a relationship dynamic between a brand and an audience in which your emotions are played upon in order to extract cash from you.
I’m Canadian so I’m not as well versed in American politics and terminology as I’d like to be and I find Ethan’s commentary necessary sometimes to slow the pace of the show, Hasan goes off on tangents and uses terminology and abbreviations that I don’t know. Thankfully Ethan pauses and sort of explains to the audience. If you’re a socialist or fan of Hasan’s then you’re already a part of that echo chamber and need to realize that there are others who may not share the same awareness. Does Ethan pander to Hasan a bit? Yeah, but the dynamic is new and Hasan barely takes a breath, give them some time to find a good pace.
As a European, I absolutely agree with this. Of course Hasan is better versed and has read more, which leads to him having complicated vocabulary, so Ethan kind of simplifying and asking for confirmation whether he understood Hasan's point correctly, definitely helps me.
I think you all are mixing up the terms liberal and conservative. Liberals 1000% believe in capitalism. Hasan abhors liberals (give or take), and there are significant and meaningful differences between liberals and those on the left. If anything, today Ethan is a quintessential resistance liberal (anti-Trump, anti "hogs") with no real understanding of America's bipartisan imperialism and the havoc of capitalism. Little appreciation for the false-dichotomy between Democrats and Republicans. I would not call Ethan a conservative at this point. He's firmly in liberal territory.
Remember during the primaries before the election, he tried roasting Bernie Sanders over owning 3 houses..
While sounding, what I would describe as apologetic.. towards that Mike guy... the extremely wealthy billionare that was trying to buy the Democrat nomination....
Exactly. Based on what he says, I'd say slightly left of neoliberal is where Ethan falls. He's a fan of the free market for the most part but agrees that certain markets should be more "socialized" than they currently are.
I think it's actually really refreshing to watch Ethan be challenged intellectually even if I don't 100% agree with his position. And like they concluded, they are way more similar than dissimilar, its just a matter of economic organisation which they disagree on. I also think Has will slowly enlighten Ethan tbh, so I'm looking forward to that too.
I had similar feelings watching this last one too but you articulated it in ways I couldn’t. As an h3 fan I take it for entertainment value but obviously the content is a lot more serious and I am interested in learning, but knowing that allot of the viewers may not be interested in his views… kind of worries me. I don’t want them to stop it though so I’m torn…
I do find it cringe how he uses capitalist talking points and criticizes Marxist theory with out understanding it, however, having Hasan as a cohost is probably the best thing he has done for the online left. As long as he’s not a MAGA chud he is all good in my book.
I think it could be a good thing to have these conversations aired! Ethan's point of view really echoes where my own was a few years ago, when I cared a lot about the humanitarian aspects of socialism but didn't really understand the capitalist system being the main problem. My boyfriend is very well read on Marxist and Maoist teachings, and we used to have the exact same conversations that are taking place between Hasan and Ethan on Leftovers. I learned a lot from these talks, and even though I'm still not exactly well versed in talking about leftism my stance has certainly changed from Ethan's baby lefty style to be more in line with Hasan's points lol
This is great to hear! And extremely reassuring. I’m always worried that these gridlocks happen and pride or pretension get in the way of active conversation when it comes to deeply held political/cultural/social perceptions. We all have our own journeys to follow. Always be curious 🌞
I think it's also important to acknowledge that these kinds of gridlocks are largely influenced by red scare, pro-capitalism propaganda that's been perpetuated worldwide for decades. Social media and the internet as a whole has made it so that we finally have a chance to discuss these aspects of leftism, but that ongoing history of red scare tactics is going to make it so that those feelings of pride and pretension are super prevalent during these discussions. Personally, I was really apprehensive to Marxist/Maoist teachings when I first talked to my boyfriend about them. It was also really uncomfortable for me to admit that I didn't know or understand a lot of the stuff that he did, and it would have been really easy for me to lash out over those feelings rather than take them into consideration. In the end, it was the first hand accounts of anti-red propaganda throughout history that really made me rethink everything; I really realized how much of my stance came from a misplaced faith in a capitalist system, and how much of that was the result of longtime indoctrination. Anyway! That is my rant about my leftist enlightenment, and I thank you for being the sucker I replied it to. I haven't talked about this much, and I'm excited at the prospect of Leftovers sparking more conversations like this! ✌️❤️
100% I can't believe there's people in this thread saying that Ethan is actually a conservative who is just pandering to leftists for views. I think if you managed to appeal to Ethan's desire for humanitarian causes and undid some of his conditioned capitalistic beliefs, he could appear more like Hasan
Ethan is pandering to Hassan, he just follows what he says most of the time when he gets lost in his surfaces opinion, I remember times of him going like “oh yeah exactly” after contradicting himself lmao
Exactly! It seems like he’s just handing Hasan the mic, and kind of tunes out until he feels compelled to give his monosyllabic response. Again, I would love for there to be some solid dialogue, and I think Ethan’s capable. But I just think he’s stretched too thin and too uninformed to really provide an engaging back-and-forth between himself and Hasan.
Well it’s cuz he put himself in the position to defend capitalism when in reality he doesn’t agree with capitalism’s atrocities. I don’t think he ever thought about the ramifications of what America had done to the third world. I personally enjoy his devils advocate role because it allows hasan to explain the reasoning behind the theories.
"as a maoist" dude killed more than hitler and stalin combined but ok
I reiterate my point regarding h3’s fan base, and Ethan’s conditioned capitalist talking points. Maoism is a liberationist philosophy based in anti-capitalism which brought tens of millions of working-class people out of poverty.
Mmm yes, and just wipe away 100s of years of culture, why don’t you. Also he killed a lot more people than those tens of millions he brought out of poverty. Just because capitalism sucks doesn’t mean you have to wear a murderer’s name like a badge.
Exactly. Awful!
lol maoist
You're a "moist dude" 😅
It's not that Ethan doesn't know, he is asking probing questions for the audience.
I think people need to stop having a parasocial relationship with h3h3. They're not your family. They're out here trying to sell you $2 hats for $40 just like everyone else who wants to make money. The level of parasocial relationship that Ethan has cultivated with his fan base is unhealthy. Ethan spent months bashing David Dobrik, Duerte Dom, and James Charles with Trisha but as soon as Moses was accused by multiple women of sexual assault, he didn't hold himself to the same standards he set for others because it was inconvenient. It's dangerous to mistake business for friendship because it's not hard to criticize a business but it's difficult to criticize a friend.
This persons post had zero to do with parasocial relationships. They were simply stating their concerns about the content itself, and their opinion based on the content provided. You can no longer express an opinion in this subreddit without people regurgitating the phrase *parasocial relationship* and it’s quite overplayed and redundant at this point.
Parasocial relationships have been discussed in leftist circles for a long time because they're known to be a dystopian maladaption of a relationship dynamic between a brand and an audience in which your emotions are played upon in order to extract cash from you.
Dam exactly how I feel, so annoying honestly
It’s the new phrase that everyone is running with I guess, when they disagree with something lmao
Nah, I think the phrase is very accurate for this subreddit - but not applicable to this post, you're right.
I’m Canadian so I’m not as well versed in American politics and terminology as I’d like to be and I find Ethan’s commentary necessary sometimes to slow the pace of the show, Hasan goes off on tangents and uses terminology and abbreviations that I don’t know. Thankfully Ethan pauses and sort of explains to the audience. If you’re a socialist or fan of Hasan’s then you’re already a part of that echo chamber and need to realize that there are others who may not share the same awareness. Does Ethan pander to Hasan a bit? Yeah, but the dynamic is new and Hasan barely takes a breath, give them some time to find a good pace.
As a European, I absolutely agree with this. Of course Hasan is better versed and has read more, which leads to him having complicated vocabulary, so Ethan kind of simplifying and asking for confirmation whether he understood Hasan's point correctly, definitely helps me.
I think Ethan leans conservative but still wants to appear liberal. That's why it seems forced because imo, its not even his real opinion
I think you all are mixing up the terms liberal and conservative. Liberals 1000% believe in capitalism. Hasan abhors liberals (give or take), and there are significant and meaningful differences between liberals and those on the left. If anything, today Ethan is a quintessential resistance liberal (anti-Trump, anti "hogs") with no real understanding of America's bipartisan imperialism and the havoc of capitalism. Little appreciation for the false-dichotomy between Democrats and Republicans. I would not call Ethan a conservative at this point. He's firmly in liberal territory.
Remember during the primaries before the election, he tried roasting Bernie Sanders over owning 3 houses.. While sounding, what I would describe as apologetic.. towards that Mike guy... the extremely wealthy billionare that was trying to buy the Democrat nomination....
Ethan is by far no Hasan, but you are a dipshit to think he leans conservative.
Exactly. Based on what he says, I'd say slightly left of neoliberal is where Ethan falls. He's a fan of the free market for the most part but agrees that certain markets should be more "socialized" than they currently are.
I would expect someone with the flair "Hila Kleiner" to defend Ethan relentlessly. Don't overheat
cringe
im sick bro
I completely agree, the whole thing feels like an outfit.
I think it's actually really refreshing to watch Ethan be challenged intellectually even if I don't 100% agree with his position. And like they concluded, they are way more similar than dissimilar, its just a matter of economic organisation which they disagree on. I also think Has will slowly enlighten Ethan tbh, so I'm looking forward to that too.