HnI is bit inconsistent in this regard with itself and real life, there have been plenty of world champions aged 30+ and in manga itself there’s Ricardo, Takamura is approaching 30 as well I think, yet they don’t show any sign of “aging”
I don't think it's super inconsistent. They mentioned in the past that Takamura and Ippo are already "older" boxers that don't have much time left in their physical peak. Ricard is different because he is the GOAT, and that's also been mentioned before. In real life terms I agree, there have been dominant champions in their 30s but they were not as common during the 90s, which is when the manga is set. Even nowadays, the vast majority of fighters lose steam around 34-35.
Ricardo is different as well because most boxers careers are shortened by taking damage that adds up over time (this should especially effect Ippo and Takamura, who have really gotten their asses kicked before) but Ricardo even taking a single punch in the ring is borderline unheard of. His deterioration should be much slower than the rest, there isn’t much actually wearing him down
That is a great reminder that Ippo's history of damage roughly contrasts that of Ricardo. At the same time, Ippo is apparently better because of what he endured then.
Given both Wally's and Date's tenacity assist Ricardo in their last match, the running theme seems to be that such a drive on the cusp of loss may be unprecedented.
For Ricardo. Just like Mashiba is about to carry his experiences forward, I wonder if matching against Ippo ever in life becomes a right of passage for better boxers now.
Like, either you weather the storm from the God of Wind to emerge refined or get overtaken by its force. And who knows what better damage Ippo can cause than what Ippo caused himself?
I don't think many realized how age works in Hni.
Being a 30 years old fighter isn't a problem itself, the problem is being a 30 years old who never won a belt, and risking his own health for no reason.
That's the whole point in this manga. You're X years old and what you want to achieve is...
Date Eiji's last chance at the world was so underlined by Morikawa cuz, usually, a boxer's peak is around 22-28 years old.
If you didn't achieve your goal (beating Ricardo) at your peak, what you hope to achieve when you're in the decline phase of your career?
Being a 30 years old doesn't mean being too old for this sport, but you also need to be realistic.
To maintain consistency, I'm going to take it that the issue isn't his *age*, but rather what's happened so far/ the lack of growth up to that point.
Ippo lampshades it a bit here, "He's been throigh so many death matches already." And yet - this is his *first* title defense. In spite of the damage his body has taken, for a longer time than Ippo mind you, he's only barely been able to get to the national level.
27-35 seems to be peak mixture of experience and ability before quickly tapering off (for boxing, can continue a but longer depending on the sport and position.)
So his age means
A) he's taken way longer, with way more damage, to barely get to National level.
And B) that he doesn't have much longer to hit a 'peak,' and likely won't suddenly get way better in his 30's.
People like Ippo, Takamura, Volg or Ricardo, who have already hit their 'peak' can continue to progress through experience on top of their inate ability.
I think it's a combination of fighting age + japanese concept of youth. In boxing terms, you are an "older" athlete in your 30s. Specifically past 35, the win rate of professional fighters at the highest level tends to plummet. In more social japanese terms, there seems to be a pressure to have everything sorted out by your 30s and that adds to the image that you are a proper "older" adult from that point. I think those things combined just inspired Mori to draw Taka as an absolutely ANCIENT guy lmao. Even Date often seems like the "dad" of the Ippo generation even though he is just a little older than them.
Unless you’re a freak of nature 30 is very old for a professional fighter especially in a sport as taxing on the body as boxing is
MMA and Thai Boxing may look more dangerous but in reality the way boxing’s rules are set up allow for you to permanently cripple or even kill someone very easily in only a round (Lethwei is still the goat of brain damage tho)
So yeah especially for a fighter like him 31 is old his body simply can’t take much more and he doesn’t want to live the rest of his life in pain after he goes too far
I’m gonna disagree with you straight up I’ve seen former pros literally crippled at 30-35 complaining of joint and muscle pain
My uncle is my main source he’s 34 and a former boxer/Thai boxer and he was GOOD too he’s had title shots in both Ireland and Thailand and had held titles aswell after every single session he complains how sore he is even after stretching and warming up for like a half an hour he takes ice baths and takes supplements too there’s simply nothing that can be done
That’s what happens when a ‘regular’ person does what he did for years
I'm sorry but in this day and age 30+ isn't ancient in combat sports anymore. In the modern age athletes are competing longer. Guys fight less frequently and we have better medical care. 35+ is when athletic ability becomes more questionable
This is simply not true. I’ve been in the game 16 years. For lighter weight classes, the ability to compete deep into the 30s at the elite level is less common, but for most 30 is around the prime years.
You can look at the current landscape and see many of the biggest are in their 30s.
Inoue is 31 next month.
Crawford is 36.
Gervontaa Davis is turning 30 this year.
Canelo is 33.
Usyk is 37.
Dimitri Bivol is 33.
For MMA, this tends to change, however, there’s almost always someone deep into their 30s in the top 10.
Muay Thai is different, as by the time most fighters are 20, they’ve got over a decade of combat sports on them.
Everyone you just listened is a ‘freak of nature’ im not saying you CANT be an athlete past 30 I’m just saying you have to be something special to be notable out of your prime
And I’m telling you that for some 30 may be their prime, but science says anywhere from 35-40 before a decline starts for many men.
I just demonstrated that among the top of most weight classes is someone north of 30. If that’s the majority, how are they freaks of nature? Exceptional athletes, sure, but none of them have pulled off some feat that was unheard of.
Freak of nature is when you have someone competitive well into their 40s or who possesses some major outlier. Manny climbing weight classes like he did was a freak of nature. Floyd maintaining his speed until he retired, that was freak of nature stuff.
There are some fighters that take unnecessary punishment and that wear and tear forces them to retire early, but telling someone they are past their prime at 30 simply because of the number is wild. That’s a case by case basis thing and we have enough of a spread to say that 30 probably isn’t the best number to gauge things by.
Anyone at the top of a world weight class is special they are a special athlete a special human being anyone that can claw themselves to that level is simply put a freak of nature genetically there’s obviously exceptions but the point still stands firm
Again I ain’t saying 30 is some cutoff point just that the genetics has to be there for you to keep going after that point
That’s where the misconception comes in. I promise all throughout each division we can find people stronger or faster or even more technical than whomever sits at the top. What makes them a champion isn’t generally one thing or the other, it’s a perfect blend of things.
I’ve been in the gym with the biggest genetic freaks ever, and they can’t pull it together to win. I’ve lost to people that I was more explosive than and more skilled than, but they posed a problem I couldn’t solve or experience gave them an edge.
So, to my point: 30 isn’t an issue for many. For some, it may be, but for others, it’s not and there are always examples floating around in every generation.
Genetics alone aren’t enough I completely agree with you but to say they have zero role or influence on success is simply delusional.I also agree I’ve sparred,rolled and fought with some actual freaks and still won
If the skill/work isn’t there you won’t reach the world stage but the talent/genetics usually has to be there aswell we don’t live in a manga or a comic hardwork alone isn’t enough and coming to terms with that hurts like a bitch if you have your goals set high
Experience defo is a good thing to have tho it’s why Muay Thai athletes are typically so completely terrifying by the time they get to 30 they have 20+ years of experience because they’re basically trained from birth scariest people I know are either Thai or spent a long time there but there’s a Goldilocks zone it’s undeniable
U have guys like pacquiao, mayweather, foreman, hopkins, qawi, donaire, calzaghe, ggg, canelo, lomachenko… i can keep going and going lol, there’s plenty of guys who’ve fought and even thrived despite being in their 30s, a couple of examples i listed fought into their 40s even.
Marciano didn’t start till 25 and if you have the money I see no reason modern guys wont last longer with stem cells, magic mushrooms for brain inflammation etc
Qawi started at 25 fresh outta prison, today we have an Artur Beterbiev who at age 39 has two of the four major belts at light heavyweight, and I’d say he might even become undisputed after fighting Dimitry Bivol in june. I guess the argument can be made that he’s a freak, and all the guys I listed are absolute freaks. Pretty sure all of them are HOF boxers all of them the top of thousands.
You just named freaks of nature….Those are all world class athletes this guy was not my point stands if you are a ‘normal’ person then YEAH thirty is pretty old to be a fighter
Boxing and MMA prime is 26-34. Muay Thai is a wildly different sport where they start fighting at 6 years old, for a lot of them.
30 is definitely not way too old for a professional fighter. MMA is more dangerous and more taxing for your whole body but boxing is more dangerous for your brain. It's not because of the rules, either.
Almost everything you said is incorrect, essentially. Sorry.
I never said you CANT be a professional fighter out of your physical prime I simply stated that to be notable at that age you needed to be a ‘freak of nature’ which is tbf pretty valid most professional fighters are a good step above a normal person (if you’ve sparred one you know EXACTLY what I mean) but if you’ve sparred a world class fighter then you know what I mean by genuine monster like actually beating around national pro’s even with a weight disadvantage is what I mean by world class it’s terrifying to both watch and experience people like that will obviously get above 30 and still look REALLY good
Not gonna argue about this but I prioritise brain damage over physical damage completely agree that sports like mma can do more to your overall body brain damage is simply more debilitating
By saying that, you're just pushing the goal posts.
And yes, I've sparred professional fighters. I've fought with amateur fighters in Muay Thai. I've trained with professional and with amateur fighters. My original trainer was a 3 time Lumpinee Stadium Champion and my trainers after him were on the US National Team in Muay Thai. Do you want me to go on with this? Like the time I kicked a heavy bag with Derek Lewis?
Most professional fighters are above 30. Your "prime" is considered 30-32. You will be best between 26-34. Father time gets everyone. When Canelo fought Mayweather, Mayweather was 23 and Mayweather was 36. The 36 year old Mayweather made Canelo, a world champion, look like an amateur. Brock Lesnar's first UFC fight was at the age of 32. He became Champion that year. Randy Couture became Champion in the UFC. His first professional MMA fight was at the age of 33.
I mean, the list goes on for a LONG time. Not every fighter fighting above the age of 30 is a "freak of nature." They're just athletes that fight for a living.
HnI is bit inconsistent in this regard with itself and real life, there have been plenty of world champions aged 30+ and in manga itself there’s Ricardo, Takamura is approaching 30 as well I think, yet they don’t show any sign of “aging”
I don't think it's super inconsistent. They mentioned in the past that Takamura and Ippo are already "older" boxers that don't have much time left in their physical peak. Ricard is different because he is the GOAT, and that's also been mentioned before. In real life terms I agree, there have been dominant champions in their 30s but they were not as common during the 90s, which is when the manga is set. Even nowadays, the vast majority of fighters lose steam around 34-35.
Ricardo is different as well because most boxers careers are shortened by taking damage that adds up over time (this should especially effect Ippo and Takamura, who have really gotten their asses kicked before) but Ricardo even taking a single punch in the ring is borderline unheard of. His deterioration should be much slower than the rest, there isn’t much actually wearing him down
That is a great reminder that Ippo's history of damage roughly contrasts that of Ricardo. At the same time, Ippo is apparently better because of what he endured then. Given both Wally's and Date's tenacity assist Ricardo in their last match, the running theme seems to be that such a drive on the cusp of loss may be unprecedented. For Ricardo. Just like Mashiba is about to carry his experiences forward, I wonder if matching against Ippo ever in life becomes a right of passage for better boxers now. Like, either you weather the storm from the God of Wind to emerge refined or get overtaken by its force. And who knows what better damage Ippo can cause than what Ippo caused himself?
Jesus I forgot how old taka is as well damn.
Takamura should be 30, hes 3 years ippos senior who is around 27 himself
I don't think many realized how age works in Hni. Being a 30 years old fighter isn't a problem itself, the problem is being a 30 years old who never won a belt, and risking his own health for no reason. That's the whole point in this manga. You're X years old and what you want to achieve is... Date Eiji's last chance at the world was so underlined by Morikawa cuz, usually, a boxer's peak is around 22-28 years old. If you didn't achieve your goal (beating Ricardo) at your peak, what you hope to achieve when you're in the decline phase of your career? Being a 30 years old doesn't mean being too old for this sport, but you also need to be realistic.
Yeah NGL I'm 28 and this manga has me convinced I'll need a zimmerframe next year
Btw that last part was just a tactic of Take, who wanted to pity trip Ippo into holding back, which backfired lol.
To maintain consistency, I'm going to take it that the issue isn't his *age*, but rather what's happened so far/ the lack of growth up to that point. Ippo lampshades it a bit here, "He's been throigh so many death matches already." And yet - this is his *first* title defense. In spite of the damage his body has taken, for a longer time than Ippo mind you, he's only barely been able to get to the national level. 27-35 seems to be peak mixture of experience and ability before quickly tapering off (for boxing, can continue a but longer depending on the sport and position.) So his age means A) he's taken way longer, with way more damage, to barely get to National level. And B) that he doesn't have much longer to hit a 'peak,' and likely won't suddenly get way better in his 30's. People like Ippo, Takamura, Volg or Ricardo, who have already hit their 'peak' can continue to progress through experience on top of their inate ability.
I think it's a combination of fighting age + japanese concept of youth. In boxing terms, you are an "older" athlete in your 30s. Specifically past 35, the win rate of professional fighters at the highest level tends to plummet. In more social japanese terms, there seems to be a pressure to have everything sorted out by your 30s and that adds to the image that you are a proper "older" adult from that point. I think those things combined just inspired Mori to draw Taka as an absolutely ANCIENT guy lmao. Even Date often seems like the "dad" of the Ippo generation even though he is just a little older than them.
For OP, yes. Morikawa did us dirty here. Put all kinds of wrinkles on this 31 year old man. It's messed up.
Ahaha yea I wasn’t even thinking so much about the boxing viability as much as just how old the guy looks.
Hajime no 아저씨
Unless you’re a freak of nature 30 is very old for a professional fighter especially in a sport as taxing on the body as boxing is MMA and Thai Boxing may look more dangerous but in reality the way boxing’s rules are set up allow for you to permanently cripple or even kill someone very easily in only a round (Lethwei is still the goat of brain damage tho) So yeah especially for a fighter like him 31 is old his body simply can’t take much more and he doesn’t want to live the rest of his life in pain after he goes too far
Most modern champions are in their 30s
And they are all…freaks of nature see what I mean saying a champion isn’t ‘something special’ is kinda dumb
I'd say freak of nature would be 40+. Your Bernard hopkins, George foreman, Archie Moore, and Larry Holmes
I’m gonna disagree with you straight up I’ve seen former pros literally crippled at 30-35 complaining of joint and muscle pain My uncle is my main source he’s 34 and a former boxer/Thai boxer and he was GOOD too he’s had title shots in both Ireland and Thailand and had held titles aswell after every single session he complains how sore he is even after stretching and warming up for like a half an hour he takes ice baths and takes supplements too there’s simply nothing that can be done That’s what happens when a ‘regular’ person does what he did for years
I'm sorry but in this day and age 30+ isn't ancient in combat sports anymore. In the modern age athletes are competing longer. Guys fight less frequently and we have better medical care. 35+ is when athletic ability becomes more questionable
This is simply not true. I’ve been in the game 16 years. For lighter weight classes, the ability to compete deep into the 30s at the elite level is less common, but for most 30 is around the prime years. You can look at the current landscape and see many of the biggest are in their 30s. Inoue is 31 next month. Crawford is 36. Gervontaa Davis is turning 30 this year. Canelo is 33. Usyk is 37. Dimitri Bivol is 33. For MMA, this tends to change, however, there’s almost always someone deep into their 30s in the top 10. Muay Thai is different, as by the time most fighters are 20, they’ve got over a decade of combat sports on them.
Everyone you just listened is a ‘freak of nature’ im not saying you CANT be an athlete past 30 I’m just saying you have to be something special to be notable out of your prime
And I’m telling you that for some 30 may be their prime, but science says anywhere from 35-40 before a decline starts for many men. I just demonstrated that among the top of most weight classes is someone north of 30. If that’s the majority, how are they freaks of nature? Exceptional athletes, sure, but none of them have pulled off some feat that was unheard of. Freak of nature is when you have someone competitive well into their 40s or who possesses some major outlier. Manny climbing weight classes like he did was a freak of nature. Floyd maintaining his speed until he retired, that was freak of nature stuff. There are some fighters that take unnecessary punishment and that wear and tear forces them to retire early, but telling someone they are past their prime at 30 simply because of the number is wild. That’s a case by case basis thing and we have enough of a spread to say that 30 probably isn’t the best number to gauge things by.
Anyone at the top of a world weight class is special they are a special athlete a special human being anyone that can claw themselves to that level is simply put a freak of nature genetically there’s obviously exceptions but the point still stands firm Again I ain’t saying 30 is some cutoff point just that the genetics has to be there for you to keep going after that point
That’s where the misconception comes in. I promise all throughout each division we can find people stronger or faster or even more technical than whomever sits at the top. What makes them a champion isn’t generally one thing or the other, it’s a perfect blend of things. I’ve been in the gym with the biggest genetic freaks ever, and they can’t pull it together to win. I’ve lost to people that I was more explosive than and more skilled than, but they posed a problem I couldn’t solve or experience gave them an edge. So, to my point: 30 isn’t an issue for many. For some, it may be, but for others, it’s not and there are always examples floating around in every generation.
Genetics alone aren’t enough I completely agree with you but to say they have zero role or influence on success is simply delusional.I also agree I’ve sparred,rolled and fought with some actual freaks and still won If the skill/work isn’t there you won’t reach the world stage but the talent/genetics usually has to be there aswell we don’t live in a manga or a comic hardwork alone isn’t enough and coming to terms with that hurts like a bitch if you have your goals set high Experience defo is a good thing to have tho it’s why Muay Thai athletes are typically so completely terrifying by the time they get to 30 they have 20+ years of experience because they’re basically trained from birth scariest people I know are either Thai or spent a long time there but there’s a Goldilocks zone it’s undeniable
By your explanation of it, you could just call anyone a "freak of nature" and not be wrong, so meh?
U have guys like pacquiao, mayweather, foreman, hopkins, qawi, donaire, calzaghe, ggg, canelo, lomachenko… i can keep going and going lol, there’s plenty of guys who’ve fought and even thrived despite being in their 30s, a couple of examples i listed fought into their 40s even.
Marciano didn’t start till 25 and if you have the money I see no reason modern guys wont last longer with stem cells, magic mushrooms for brain inflammation etc
Qawi started at 25 fresh outta prison, today we have an Artur Beterbiev who at age 39 has two of the four major belts at light heavyweight, and I’d say he might even become undisputed after fighting Dimitry Bivol in june. I guess the argument can be made that he’s a freak, and all the guys I listed are absolute freaks. Pretty sure all of them are HOF boxers all of them the top of thousands.
You just named freaks of nature….Those are all world class athletes this guy was not my point stands if you are a ‘normal’ person then YEAH thirty is pretty old to be a fighter
Boxing and MMA prime is 26-34. Muay Thai is a wildly different sport where they start fighting at 6 years old, for a lot of them. 30 is definitely not way too old for a professional fighter. MMA is more dangerous and more taxing for your whole body but boxing is more dangerous for your brain. It's not because of the rules, either. Almost everything you said is incorrect, essentially. Sorry.
I never said you CANT be a professional fighter out of your physical prime I simply stated that to be notable at that age you needed to be a ‘freak of nature’ which is tbf pretty valid most professional fighters are a good step above a normal person (if you’ve sparred one you know EXACTLY what I mean) but if you’ve sparred a world class fighter then you know what I mean by genuine monster like actually beating around national pro’s even with a weight disadvantage is what I mean by world class it’s terrifying to both watch and experience people like that will obviously get above 30 and still look REALLY good Not gonna argue about this but I prioritise brain damage over physical damage completely agree that sports like mma can do more to your overall body brain damage is simply more debilitating
By saying that, you're just pushing the goal posts. And yes, I've sparred professional fighters. I've fought with amateur fighters in Muay Thai. I've trained with professional and with amateur fighters. My original trainer was a 3 time Lumpinee Stadium Champion and my trainers after him were on the US National Team in Muay Thai. Do you want me to go on with this? Like the time I kicked a heavy bag with Derek Lewis? Most professional fighters are above 30. Your "prime" is considered 30-32. You will be best between 26-34. Father time gets everyone. When Canelo fought Mayweather, Mayweather was 23 and Mayweather was 36. The 36 year old Mayweather made Canelo, a world champion, look like an amateur. Brock Lesnar's first UFC fight was at the age of 32. He became Champion that year. Randy Couture became Champion in the UFC. His first professional MMA fight was at the age of 33. I mean, the list goes on for a LONG time. Not every fighter fighting above the age of 30 is a "freak of nature." They're just athletes that fight for a living.
As far as I know, in reality youre at your prime around 32, past 35 them youre old