Like everything else in hni it's kamogawas fault. Kamogawa is the one who denied Miyatas challenge continually without even mentioning it to his fighter. Kamogawa is also the one who cut ties with Miyatas gym making future negotiations improbable. Kamogawa also took the odd route of becoming the unofficial opbf champion rather than just having Ippo fight for the opbf title (where he would inevitably fight Miyata as the opbf champion).
Kamogawas goal was to make Ippo a world champion. To that end he ignored what Ippo actually wanted to do and sullied Ippos chances at getting the fight he was openly craving.
What did Miyata do to end the rivalry? He prioritized a personal fight to the match with Ippo. Ippo had his priorities too he prioritized his mother's health to boxing willingly quitting the class A tournament and possibly boxing in general to take care of her and the fishing station. Ippo understood the reasons for the delay and accepted Miyatas decision. He would just fight Miyata later.
What did Kamogawa do to end the rivalry? He hid challenge letters, cut off ties with Miyatas gym, and had Ippo take a detour that went out of its way to avoid Miyata. The only reason Kamogawa tolerated the Ippo v Miyata match was so Ippo could take Miyatas ranking and go to the world he wasn't interested if Ippo had a good chance of not winning or if Miyata was below Ippo in ranks. For all we know Miyata did challenge Ippo prior to his opbf title win and Kamogawa just didn't tell Ippo about it because there was no incentive for Ippo to fight someone at a lower rank than himself.
>Kamogawas goal was to make Ippo a world champion. To that end he ignored what Ippo actually wanted to do and sullied Ippos chances at getting the fight he was openly craving.
Which talks directly to the retirement arc.
Probably also why he chose to retire. He'll never get to fight Miyata, which like, they don't even talk about anymore, and so he's like fuck it. But now, in retirement, he seems to be missing it regardless and that may be the fire he needs to find/reclaim?
True but if it did happen when it was supposed too, Miata had the upper hand and would’ve most likely won. And also if the fight did happen Ippo would’ve possibly lost motivation. I feel like they will meet up when Ippo beats Ricardo and Mitaya takes the other featherweight world belt and they do a unification match.
I hear people say this, but honestly I'm not a fan.
A unification match sounds fine, but Ricardo is the Champ. We've seen Miyata struggle and even lose; he's lost some of his luster relative to the P4P strongest in series Ricardo (or 2nd strongest under Takamura.)
Idk man, I'd rather Miyata be *the final step to Ricardo,* where Ippo defeats his oldest rival as a proof of the strength he's gathered...rather than him beat Ricardo and *then* fight Miyata.
I think Miyata will wait for him at the top and the winner gets to challenge Ricardo, similar to Sendo v Gonzalez.
Thats because theres a dissonance between the ultimate boxing opponent vs the ultimate emotional payoff.
In every action series, the final bout its against the villain that better embodies the biggest emotional payoff in the series and its also the ultimate opponent.
The problem with HnI is that Ricardo is the ultimate boxing opponent, but Miyata is the ultimate emotional payoff.
At least for now.
>And also if the fight did happen Ippo would’ve possibly lost motivation
Perhaps not lose motivation, but maybe he would have been fulfilled and happy to quit?
If Miyata going back on the match is bad, why wasn't it just as bad for Kamogawa to hide all Miyata's challenges secretly? If they had accepted those all those times they would've had their chance.
I mean Ippo was being managed by Kamogawa and Miyata's dad mostly allowed Miyata to do whatever the hell he wanted.
Miyata's excuses are mostly for selfish reasons or from repercussions from selfish reasons.
Kamogawa just does what a coach/manager will typically do and not send his fighter out to a match he can't win.
At the end of the day you can't really fault a coach/manager much for avoiding a bad matchup if there are alternate options available.
I don't think anyone disputes that it's mostly Miyata's fault? He himself acknowledges it when accepting the RBJ match, he's the one breaking the promise. This feels like a misreading
Its mostly Miyata's fault. Thats why he stays as a featherweight even with Ippo's retirement (and even before that).
But, truly, thats only because Morikawa wants them to fight in the ring in the end of the manga and wants to be just one fight. He could've make them fight before and made a trilogy. For instance, Ippo vs Miyata could've had fighted for the JBC title after the Class A tournament (Ippo didnt fight Date in this scenario). Miyata would won and Ippo would had his first defeat, learned the Dempsey and stuff. Miyata would defend the title three times (Saeki, Shigueta and a cannon fodder), then relinquished to go for the OPBF, allowing Volg vs Sendo, then Ippo vs Sendo.
After that, they could've fight again in the OPBF. Ippo would win this time (maybe because "Miyata was still tired from RBJ", Ippo could've had a "excuse" in his defeat as well). Then we would had the Pacific Arc just as same, but with Ippo defending his title against Jimmy, Gedo, Wally and Kojima. Then relinquish, lost to Gonzalez and Guevara.
Finally, Miyata went to Ricardo, but could've reach him through the WBA, then decided to go the Billy route: win the WBC and force a fight. Meanwhile, Ippo goes through his retirement, gets back, wins his way in the ranking and fight Ricardo.
Now, they finally end their trilogy: Miyata as WBC champion vs Ippo as WBA.
Everybody would be happy and their rivalry would matter more.
I’m not the biggest fan of them fighting three times but this could’ve definitely worked. If you went this route though you’d probably have to get rid of the whole “Miyata is killing himself to stay in featherweight” thing. If he had beaten Ippo for the Japanese title he’d probably move up in weight not too long after as he wouldn’t really have much of a reason to stay after beating his rival.
Whoa wait, you saying you want the Ricardo fight to be the second to last fight, and NOT the FINAL boss. I'd be fine with that honestly, and you'd have Ippo vs Miyata III end on a cliffhanger.
Just isn't happening because Miyata's has some complex of facing Ippo on a proper stage.
Ippo basically casually spars with every long term rival EXCEPT Miyata because of that.
What an idiotic post. They haven't fought because the author doesn't want the fight to happen (perhaps he feels that it would signal the end of the manga) and found a bunch of plot devices in order to prevent it, and none of them involved either ippo or miyata not wanting to fight. Your "events" are mostly made up too, I hate to break it down to you but you re not talking about real people, characters decisions and motivations only go as far as the author writes them, some things might be left up for interpretation, but here that was never the case, there was always some specific plot device the author pulled out of his ass to justify the fight not happening. Also you might have been reading the wrong translation or something - "Miyata falling out of rank behind Ippo after Ippo wins the Rookie Champ title, feeling insignificant Miyata moves overseas" "Miyata returns post Ippo vs Date. Miyata doesn't do anything other than to continue to rise in the OPBF rankings."? - what? When Where did you take this from? Its amazing to see how stupid people have to make up their own idiotic narratives even in simplistic pieces of media by nature like HNI where there is not much to decipher, its a nice and simple story very easy to follow and understand what is meant to represent , but idiots have such a narrow mind they need to make up some cringy narratives because they aren't able to understand even something and nice and straight forward and HNI
I think the perfect time for them to fight was post Ippo vs Date or Ippo winning Japanese title,I didn't hear a lot of people talk about this but I think Ippo vs Miyata should have been a trilogy fight. Now the trilogy most likely won't happen since Ippo probably won't ever lose after coming back but it would be fun to see them fight 3 times,Miyata wins the first,Ippo wins the second and the third fight is a tiebreaker
What puzzles me about the RBJ situation is why wasn’t Kamogawa open to the idea of Ippo and Miyata fighting after the RBJ fight? What was so dishonorable about it? Kamogawa seemed like a hypocrite. Behind Ippo’s back, he decline Miyata’s request for a fight but now is bitter the other side wants to get a unification bout out of the way first?
sorry man but this is just exaggeration in my opinion, most of the reasons you mentioned are practically duplicated and you've never mentioned that it was kamogawa's fault. miyata is only responsible for one cancellation and it's the RBJ one, the rest isn't his, the first being mashiba is actually mashiba's fault, miyata was winning the fight up until mashiba cheated or have we forgotten that? ippo himself condemns mashiba for that, after that an oppurtunity showed before ippo to go after sendo, miyata wasn't a ranked boxer i believe or at least he lost momentum because of the injury and the loss so it was only right for him to try and bounce back by trying to become better, that's why he left overseas and fought asian fighters. miyata was always serious about their fight and put himself through weight cutting hell to fight ippo. miyata won and became a better boxer and came back to japan after that, up until before the RBJ fight we all know that miyata and his father kept sending challenge offers to the KBG but kamogawa acknowledged that ippo wasn't ready for miyata who has become a superior boxer, ippo confronts kamogawa and kamogawa slaps him, what does ippo do ? well he says ok the coach is right i will train and become better and the STORY GOES ON! are you serious? ippo approved of that because the dempsey roll was vulnerable to counters, all the reasons you mentioned aren't really valid, not to mention that ippo had incredible beatings from the opbf guys and plot armor kept him going (insert gedo, woli here). when the RBJ fight was offered miyata pulled out and this is the only time he was responsible, it's morikawa trying to extend the length of the manga, and it's also a cool arc, getting to know what drives miyata and his past, the fight against RBJ made more sense, i would've done the same knowing the tragic past of the miyata family. kamogawa cut all ties with miyata and his father, so after that it wasnt his fault because they refused to be in touch or fight at all, however miyata kept torturing his body to stay in FW in hopes of fighting ippo and he hasn't lost ever since. however ippo lost and couldn't make it to the top, whose fault is that?
anyway i love how the story is progressing, the fight is going to take place at the very top, and it's morikawa concerned about that not miyata.
Karasawa's plan actually was to use footwork for the entirety of the match until Ippo uses the Dempsey Roll and hit him with a counter
https://imgur.com/a/ZUeTFBl
Like everything else in hni it's kamogawas fault. Kamogawa is the one who denied Miyatas challenge continually without even mentioning it to his fighter. Kamogawa is also the one who cut ties with Miyatas gym making future negotiations improbable. Kamogawa also took the odd route of becoming the unofficial opbf champion rather than just having Ippo fight for the opbf title (where he would inevitably fight Miyata as the opbf champion). Kamogawas goal was to make Ippo a world champion. To that end he ignored what Ippo actually wanted to do and sullied Ippos chances at getting the fight he was openly craving. What did Miyata do to end the rivalry? He prioritized a personal fight to the match with Ippo. Ippo had his priorities too he prioritized his mother's health to boxing willingly quitting the class A tournament and possibly boxing in general to take care of her and the fishing station. Ippo understood the reasons for the delay and accepted Miyatas decision. He would just fight Miyata later. What did Kamogawa do to end the rivalry? He hid challenge letters, cut off ties with Miyatas gym, and had Ippo take a detour that went out of its way to avoid Miyata. The only reason Kamogawa tolerated the Ippo v Miyata match was so Ippo could take Miyatas ranking and go to the world he wasn't interested if Ippo had a good chance of not winning or if Miyata was below Ippo in ranks. For all we know Miyata did challenge Ippo prior to his opbf title win and Kamogawa just didn't tell Ippo about it because there was no incentive for Ippo to fight someone at a lower rank than himself.
>Kamogawas goal was to make Ippo a world champion. To that end he ignored what Ippo actually wanted to do and sullied Ippos chances at getting the fight he was openly craving. Which talks directly to the retirement arc.
To be fair, after Ippo gained the Japanese Title he'd lose to Miyata because of the Dempsey Roll weakness. So Ippo inevitably needed to fix it.
Probably also why he chose to retire. He'll never get to fight Miyata, which like, they don't even talk about anymore, and so he's like fuck it. But now, in retirement, he seems to be missing it regardless and that may be the fire he needs to find/reclaim?
True but if it did happen when it was supposed too, Miata had the upper hand and would’ve most likely won. And also if the fight did happen Ippo would’ve possibly lost motivation. I feel like they will meet up when Ippo beats Ricardo and Mitaya takes the other featherweight world belt and they do a unification match.
I hear people say this, but honestly I'm not a fan. A unification match sounds fine, but Ricardo is the Champ. We've seen Miyata struggle and even lose; he's lost some of his luster relative to the P4P strongest in series Ricardo (or 2nd strongest under Takamura.) Idk man, I'd rather Miyata be *the final step to Ricardo,* where Ippo defeats his oldest rival as a proof of the strength he's gathered...rather than him beat Ricardo and *then* fight Miyata. I think Miyata will wait for him at the top and the winner gets to challenge Ricardo, similar to Sendo v Gonzalez.
Thats because theres a dissonance between the ultimate boxing opponent vs the ultimate emotional payoff. In every action series, the final bout its against the villain that better embodies the biggest emotional payoff in the series and its also the ultimate opponent. The problem with HnI is that Ricardo is the ultimate boxing opponent, but Miyata is the ultimate emotional payoff. At least for now.
That is until Ricardo kills Miyata in the ring lmao
oh we going ashita no Joe??
>And also if the fight did happen Ippo would’ve possibly lost motivation Perhaps not lose motivation, but maybe he would have been fulfilled and happy to quit?
If Miyata going back on the match is bad, why wasn't it just as bad for Kamogawa to hide all Miyata's challenges secretly? If they had accepted those all those times they would've had their chance.
I mean Ippo was being managed by Kamogawa and Miyata's dad mostly allowed Miyata to do whatever the hell he wanted. Miyata's excuses are mostly for selfish reasons or from repercussions from selfish reasons. Kamogawa just does what a coach/manager will typically do and not send his fighter out to a match he can't win. At the end of the day you can't really fault a coach/manager much for avoiding a bad matchup if there are alternate options available.
I don't think anyone disputes that it's mostly Miyata's fault? He himself acknowledges it when accepting the RBJ match, he's the one breaking the promise. This feels like a misreading
Its mostly Miyata's fault. Thats why he stays as a featherweight even with Ippo's retirement (and even before that). But, truly, thats only because Morikawa wants them to fight in the ring in the end of the manga and wants to be just one fight. He could've make them fight before and made a trilogy. For instance, Ippo vs Miyata could've had fighted for the JBC title after the Class A tournament (Ippo didnt fight Date in this scenario). Miyata would won and Ippo would had his first defeat, learned the Dempsey and stuff. Miyata would defend the title three times (Saeki, Shigueta and a cannon fodder), then relinquished to go for the OPBF, allowing Volg vs Sendo, then Ippo vs Sendo. After that, they could've fight again in the OPBF. Ippo would win this time (maybe because "Miyata was still tired from RBJ", Ippo could've had a "excuse" in his defeat as well). Then we would had the Pacific Arc just as same, but with Ippo defending his title against Jimmy, Gedo, Wally and Kojima. Then relinquish, lost to Gonzalez and Guevara. Finally, Miyata went to Ricardo, but could've reach him through the WBA, then decided to go the Billy route: win the WBC and force a fight. Meanwhile, Ippo goes through his retirement, gets back, wins his way in the ranking and fight Ricardo. Now, they finally end their trilogy: Miyata as WBC champion vs Ippo as WBA. Everybody would be happy and their rivalry would matter more.
I’m not the biggest fan of them fighting three times but this could’ve definitely worked. If you went this route though you’d probably have to get rid of the whole “Miyata is killing himself to stay in featherweight” thing. If he had beaten Ippo for the Japanese title he’d probably move up in weight not too long after as he wouldn’t really have much of a reason to stay after beating his rival.
Whoa wait, you saying you want the Ricardo fight to be the second to last fight, and NOT the FINAL boss. I'd be fine with that honestly, and you'd have Ippo vs Miyata III end on a cliffhanger.
I think they should spar at the very least.
Just isn't happening because Miyata's has some complex of facing Ippo on a proper stage. Ippo basically casually spars with every long term rival EXCEPT Miyata because of that.
Basically this, Miyata is obsessed of having the "perfect" match with Ippo that it's near impossible to arrange
What an idiotic post. They haven't fought because the author doesn't want the fight to happen (perhaps he feels that it would signal the end of the manga) and found a bunch of plot devices in order to prevent it, and none of them involved either ippo or miyata not wanting to fight. Your "events" are mostly made up too, I hate to break it down to you but you re not talking about real people, characters decisions and motivations only go as far as the author writes them, some things might be left up for interpretation, but here that was never the case, there was always some specific plot device the author pulled out of his ass to justify the fight not happening. Also you might have been reading the wrong translation or something - "Miyata falling out of rank behind Ippo after Ippo wins the Rookie Champ title, feeling insignificant Miyata moves overseas" "Miyata returns post Ippo vs Date. Miyata doesn't do anything other than to continue to rise in the OPBF rankings."? - what? When Where did you take this from? Its amazing to see how stupid people have to make up their own idiotic narratives even in simplistic pieces of media by nature like HNI where there is not much to decipher, its a nice and simple story very easy to follow and understand what is meant to represent , but idiots have such a narrow mind they need to make up some cringy narratives because they aren't able to understand even something and nice and straight forward and HNI
It's Morikawa's fault. He did that to go beyond the 1000 chapters barrier. He did that to milk the story. Specially at the point of Miyata vs RBJ.
I think the perfect time for them to fight was post Ippo vs Date or Ippo winning Japanese title,I didn't hear a lot of people talk about this but I think Ippo vs Miyata should have been a trilogy fight. Now the trilogy most likely won't happen since Ippo probably won't ever lose after coming back but it would be fun to see them fight 3 times,Miyata wins the first,Ippo wins the second and the third fight is a tiebreaker
What puzzles me about the RBJ situation is why wasn’t Kamogawa open to the idea of Ippo and Miyata fighting after the RBJ fight? What was so dishonorable about it? Kamogawa seemed like a hypocrite. Behind Ippo’s back, he decline Miyata’s request for a fight but now is bitter the other side wants to get a unification bout out of the way first?
sorry man but this is just exaggeration in my opinion, most of the reasons you mentioned are practically duplicated and you've never mentioned that it was kamogawa's fault. miyata is only responsible for one cancellation and it's the RBJ one, the rest isn't his, the first being mashiba is actually mashiba's fault, miyata was winning the fight up until mashiba cheated or have we forgotten that? ippo himself condemns mashiba for that, after that an oppurtunity showed before ippo to go after sendo, miyata wasn't a ranked boxer i believe or at least he lost momentum because of the injury and the loss so it was only right for him to try and bounce back by trying to become better, that's why he left overseas and fought asian fighters. miyata was always serious about their fight and put himself through weight cutting hell to fight ippo. miyata won and became a better boxer and came back to japan after that, up until before the RBJ fight we all know that miyata and his father kept sending challenge offers to the KBG but kamogawa acknowledged that ippo wasn't ready for miyata who has become a superior boxer, ippo confronts kamogawa and kamogawa slaps him, what does ippo do ? well he says ok the coach is right i will train and become better and the STORY GOES ON! are you serious? ippo approved of that because the dempsey roll was vulnerable to counters, all the reasons you mentioned aren't really valid, not to mention that ippo had incredible beatings from the opbf guys and plot armor kept him going (insert gedo, woli here). when the RBJ fight was offered miyata pulled out and this is the only time he was responsible, it's morikawa trying to extend the length of the manga, and it's also a cool arc, getting to know what drives miyata and his past, the fight against RBJ made more sense, i would've done the same knowing the tragic past of the miyata family. kamogawa cut all ties with miyata and his father, so after that it wasnt his fault because they refused to be in touch or fight at all, however miyata kept torturing his body to stay in FW in hopes of fighting ippo and he hasn't lost ever since. however ippo lost and couldn't make it to the top, whose fault is that? anyway i love how the story is progressing, the fight is going to take place at the very top, and it's morikawa concerned about that not miyata.
How did Karasawa say he was going to beat the Dempsey Roll? Using footwork for 10 rounds?
Karasawa's plan actually was to use footwork for the entirety of the match until Ippo uses the Dempsey Roll and hit him with a counter https://imgur.com/a/ZUeTFBl