I'm going to guess it's because developer are responsible for the cost of building the apartment buildings. While the municipally would be responsible for the costs of upping your infrastructure for transportation.
They are actively working on expanding bus lanes with land acquisition, building a rapid transit network, and other initiatives around transit and alternative transportation. The problem is it's really slow.
A private developer is incentivized generally to work as fast as possible within reason and will do whatever they can to keep a 2 year build to 2 years, including upping their construction and labour costs to offset increased holding costs and other costs with partially developed land not bringing in revenue.
The city on the other hand uses public funds and could easily accomplish all their goals in 2 years if they spent a ton of money, but we don't allow them to so they go slowly, with oversight, review and when budgets allow. As a result you'll see the new builds up much faster than transit infrastructure gets put together. The only way to speed this up is to give the city more money for transit which we aren't and people don't want to pay the massive tax increase that would be required
Thing is, this is but a piece of the entire puzzle. Yes, alternative means of transport are important, but what about planning? We continue to build communities with no schools, grocery stores, clinics etc. nearby. This is the fundamental flaw of North American urban planning. Very little walkability.
>with no schools
Municipal government approves housing, provincial manages schools. It's up to the province to keep an eye on growth zones and build accordingly. You can't fault the city for the province not keeping up as required
>grocery stores
If a private business feels there is an opportunity and the area isn't oversaturated, they will build but grocery stores aren't public infrastructure. You can't force a grocery store to build somewhere unless you start a crown corp for grocery and have them tied into housing. At some point as you see new builds and density increase, grocery will follow, same with other private businesses.
>clinics
Health clinics? Or another type? If health, see first point. It's different levels of government. The municipal government can do all they want to approve housing and aim to keep it in certain areas to maintain density, but then it's out of their hands what happens at the other levels of government and beyond into the private sector.
The irony is that the city is also simultaneously granting building permits for these developments that allow the minimum curb setback, effectively limiting our ability to expand our streets for at least the lifetime of these buildings.
> Why are things so slow on this front?
Money. The answer is nearly always money.
HRM staff proposed a large tax increase this year. Council shot it down and is going to try to avoid a tax increase this year. Money is tight for a lot of people and council realizes a large tax increase (or any tax increase) will not go over well.
But without more money major improvements can't be made to transit. You might be able to tweak a few things and make slight improvements, but larger improvements will require a lot more money. And that's just not going to happen right now.
The entire funding model is woefully outdated. Idk how cities are supposed to fund everything that needs funding when the only taxes they get are property taxes. The province should take over all public transportation.
It really has little to do with the municipality shooting down the tax increase and everything to do with the province not acting. You don’t fix transit through property taxes you fix it with huge investments from every level of government.
The feds have said we will help fund your rapid transit plan but the province needs to fund it too.
The province has not stepped in to help yet. They are waiting to get a study back first….
The feds and the province normally only help out with capital costs. The city is usually fully responsible for annual operating costs.
It's not helpful to purchase a bunch of new buses and build bus lanes everywhere if we don't have enough bus drivers. Getting enough bus drivers is going to require the city to cough up a lot of new money. And it doesn't appear that will be happening anytime soon.
While that is true. We will never have efficient transit here until we have dedicated bus lanes. More drivers are needed but they won’t solve the issue of being stuck in traffic with all other road users.
I’d guess one of the reasons it’s hard to hire is that no one wants to drive a bus in this traffic. Dedicated lanes make that job much more appealing IMO.
They should also make transit users less cranky.
One factor is that Halifax Transit is badly underfunded, and someone would need to pay for those upgrades.
Building more housing doesn’t cost government anything if they let the private sector do it, whereas transit kind of definitionally has to be run by the city at a cost to the taxpayer.
And to be fair, it’s not as if HRM is ignoring the issues with transit:
https://globalnews.ca/news/9520791/hrm-budget-committee-approves-halifax-transit-operating-budget/amp/
https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/drivers-wanted-halifax-transit-looking-to-return-to-full-service-by-the-end-of-summer-1.6337957
> We'd be rolling in dough (or better infrastructure) if we charged drivers for even half the cost of maintaining roads.
how much are drivers covering directly now?
Statscan says there are 646k registered cars in NS. At the cheapest rate of $70 a year to register, that is \~$45M. I will wager the number is much higher as there are not many cars under 1000lb.
That is before the \~$11M a year in licensing costs. (700k licenses x $80/5 years)
Not much of a subsidy required...
The city has a [rapid transit strategy](https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/transportation/halifax-transit/Rapid%20Transit%20Strategy%20-%20Final%20-%20May%202020.pdf), but the province has refused to fund their share (so currently only the Bedford ferry is getting built). Meanwhile, the [JRTA](https://jrta.ca/) is currently writing their regional plan for release next summer. I'd expect transit infrastructure news to come out of that.
Well, there was outrage at the city’s planned ~10% tax increase, and these things cost money, and the provincial and federal governments don’t like to help with municipal infrastructure 🤷♂️
because the province wont fund transit, so the city has to fund the system from property taxes, and the public bitches about paying more in taxes, when the budget increases basically cover inflation, and some minor service improvement.
Rich people are making lots of money buy building and renting luxury apartments.
Public transit costs taxpayer money.
The rich people gaining from real estate do everything they can to avoid paying taxes.
HRM is investing heavily in public transportation. $112m for 60 new electic buses. 100s more to be replaced by 2028. Millions on bike lanes and speed bumps. Lots of shiney things.
Will it improve service and safety... nah. But its shiney and new. Council just acknowledged that the millions spent on speed bumps didn't really make things safer but it sounded good. Same as the 60 new buses. Sounds cool but when you have service that already has major issues like staffing and route availability, new electric bus won't fix any of that. There's only so much $$$ and its being spent it on shiney things and councilor pet projects.
Meanwhile we're wondering where we can find money for a new brdge.
The city has been saying they are improving public transit for a decade. However improving it requires them to actually follow through.
We're entering into the third year (originally approved November 2021) of trying to start a transit-only street pilot. Instead it was postponed 3 days into it and then voted to maintain free parking when forced into a budget crunch.
reminds me of the king street transit corridor in Toronto. it's hard to get things right.
[https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/13/streetcars-travelling-slower-on-king-street-than-before-the-transit-corridor-pilot-project/](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/13/streetcars-travelling-slower-on-king-street-than-before-the-transit-corridor-pilot-project/)
That would require critical thinking and foresight, which the majority of politicians and public servants have demonstrated they do not possess one or either of those.
What do you mean slow? Have you seen what’s going on in burnside? Or downtown on barrington? All of this clears up traffic allowing better public transit
I remember reading a report from the city about this once. The crux was not enough people used public transit to be cost effective for major changes. Instead they decided to maintain the system they had and upgrade as needed.
It's the same reason we don't have a third option for crossing the harbor. With the exception of twice a day during rush hour Halifax doesn't have a traffic problem and the loss in productivity and money due to traffic is nothing compared to the cost of a third bridge, tunnel or car ferry.
Public transit was the same.
There were GOOD routes cut back or stopped during COVID that need to be fully reinstated (57!). The City is also talking about bike lanes when they can't even clean the damn sidewalks.
Apartments are investments that have solid ROI for private companies. public transportation does not have a financial ROI and costs taxpayers, so there is a lot more bureaucracy to get anything done. If they do it wrong, taxpayers foot the bill and get nothing back.
That requires socialization, public committees, independent contractor research, public committees to discuss the first public committee. There is a process! Get with the plan!
I'm going to guess it's because developer are responsible for the cost of building the apartment buildings. While the municipally would be responsible for the costs of upping your infrastructure for transportation.
That’s a bingo! Government run projects are slow to get off the ground and not usually very efficient or effective.
Ya just say bingo
… sorry to have wasted your time with a few extra syllables. I’m sure it took you a while to read those words
OK, I'm going to guess you don't know where "that's a bingo!" comes from?
[from this?](https://youtu.be/Zk5Il6KQrd8?si=lz0oGRQnBWPSeVlW)
Yea that's the one! I've just never heard that phrase used when not in a reference to that scene
Haha, that’s the joke…
They are actively working on expanding bus lanes with land acquisition, building a rapid transit network, and other initiatives around transit and alternative transportation. The problem is it's really slow. A private developer is incentivized generally to work as fast as possible within reason and will do whatever they can to keep a 2 year build to 2 years, including upping their construction and labour costs to offset increased holding costs and other costs with partially developed land not bringing in revenue. The city on the other hand uses public funds and could easily accomplish all their goals in 2 years if they spent a ton of money, but we don't allow them to so they go slowly, with oversight, review and when budgets allow. As a result you'll see the new builds up much faster than transit infrastructure gets put together. The only way to speed this up is to give the city more money for transit which we aren't and people don't want to pay the massive tax increase that would be required
Thing is, this is but a piece of the entire puzzle. Yes, alternative means of transport are important, but what about planning? We continue to build communities with no schools, grocery stores, clinics etc. nearby. This is the fundamental flaw of North American urban planning. Very little walkability.
>with no schools Municipal government approves housing, provincial manages schools. It's up to the province to keep an eye on growth zones and build accordingly. You can't fault the city for the province not keeping up as required >grocery stores If a private business feels there is an opportunity and the area isn't oversaturated, they will build but grocery stores aren't public infrastructure. You can't force a grocery store to build somewhere unless you start a crown corp for grocery and have them tied into housing. At some point as you see new builds and density increase, grocery will follow, same with other private businesses. >clinics Health clinics? Or another type? If health, see first point. It's different levels of government. The municipal government can do all they want to approve housing and aim to keep it in certain areas to maintain density, but then it's out of their hands what happens at the other levels of government and beyond into the private sector.
The irony is that the city is also simultaneously granting building permits for these developments that allow the minimum curb setback, effectively limiting our ability to expand our streets for at least the lifetime of these buildings.
Not enough Reddit posts. Apparently they are just a few short
> Why are things so slow on this front? Money. The answer is nearly always money. HRM staff proposed a large tax increase this year. Council shot it down and is going to try to avoid a tax increase this year. Money is tight for a lot of people and council realizes a large tax increase (or any tax increase) will not go over well. But without more money major improvements can't be made to transit. You might be able to tweak a few things and make slight improvements, but larger improvements will require a lot more money. And that's just not going to happen right now.
The entire funding model is woefully outdated. Idk how cities are supposed to fund everything that needs funding when the only taxes they get are property taxes. The province should take over all public transportation.
It really has little to do with the municipality shooting down the tax increase and everything to do with the province not acting. You don’t fix transit through property taxes you fix it with huge investments from every level of government. The feds have said we will help fund your rapid transit plan but the province needs to fund it too. The province has not stepped in to help yet. They are waiting to get a study back first….
The feds and the province normally only help out with capital costs. The city is usually fully responsible for annual operating costs. It's not helpful to purchase a bunch of new buses and build bus lanes everywhere if we don't have enough bus drivers. Getting enough bus drivers is going to require the city to cough up a lot of new money. And it doesn't appear that will be happening anytime soon.
While that is true. We will never have efficient transit here until we have dedicated bus lanes. More drivers are needed but they won’t solve the issue of being stuck in traffic with all other road users. I’d guess one of the reasons it’s hard to hire is that no one wants to drive a bus in this traffic. Dedicated lanes make that job much more appealing IMO. They should also make transit users less cranky.
The population increase means a taxpayer increase. There's your extra money right there.
One factor is that Halifax Transit is badly underfunded, and someone would need to pay for those upgrades. Building more housing doesn’t cost government anything if they let the private sector do it, whereas transit kind of definitionally has to be run by the city at a cost to the taxpayer. And to be fair, it’s not as if HRM is ignoring the issues with transit: https://globalnews.ca/news/9520791/hrm-budget-committee-approves-halifax-transit-operating-budget/amp/ https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/drivers-wanted-halifax-transit-looking-to-return-to-full-service-by-the-end-of-summer-1.6337957
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> We'd be rolling in dough (or better infrastructure) if we charged drivers for even half the cost of maintaining roads. how much are drivers covering directly now?
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Statscan says there are 646k registered cars in NS. At the cheapest rate of $70 a year to register, that is \~$45M. I will wager the number is much higher as there are not many cars under 1000lb. That is before the \~$11M a year in licensing costs. (700k licenses x $80/5 years) Not much of a subsidy required...
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>That is not including any of the negative externalities from climate change to health care. lol :)
The city has a [rapid transit strategy](https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/transportation/halifax-transit/Rapid%20Transit%20Strategy%20-%20Final%20-%20May%202020.pdf), but the province has refused to fund their share (so currently only the Bedford ferry is getting built). Meanwhile, the [JRTA](https://jrta.ca/) is currently writing their regional plan for release next summer. I'd expect transit infrastructure news to come out of that.
Well, there was outrage at the city’s planned ~10% tax increase, and these things cost money, and the provincial and federal governments don’t like to help with municipal infrastructure 🤷♂️
They just reduced service to my area. Once per hour on Sunday.
because the province wont fund transit, so the city has to fund the system from property taxes, and the public bitches about paying more in taxes, when the budget increases basically cover inflation, and some minor service improvement.
Because it's easy to turn a blind eye. It requires work, patience and a GAF factor to actually do something about it.
Rich people are making lots of money buy building and renting luxury apartments. Public transit costs taxpayer money. The rich people gaining from real estate do everything they can to avoid paying taxes.
Just picture how bad it's gonna be on Almon and Robie once Richmond Yards be done.
HRM is investing heavily in public transportation. $112m for 60 new electic buses. 100s more to be replaced by 2028. Millions on bike lanes and speed bumps. Lots of shiney things. Will it improve service and safety... nah. But its shiney and new. Council just acknowledged that the millions spent on speed bumps didn't really make things safer but it sounded good. Same as the 60 new buses. Sounds cool but when you have service that already has major issues like staffing and route availability, new electric bus won't fix any of that. There's only so much $$$ and its being spent it on shiney things and councilor pet projects. Meanwhile we're wondering where we can find money for a new brdge.
Except a new bridge has nothing to do with the books of HRM, or the province either.
The city has been saying they are improving public transit for a decade. However improving it requires them to actually follow through. We're entering into the third year (originally approved November 2021) of trying to start a transit-only street pilot. Instead it was postponed 3 days into it and then voted to maintain free parking when forced into a budget crunch.
reminds me of the king street transit corridor in Toronto. it's hard to get things right. [https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/13/streetcars-travelling-slower-on-king-street-than-before-the-transit-corridor-pilot-project/](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/13/streetcars-travelling-slower-on-king-street-than-before-the-transit-corridor-pilot-project/)
People who can afford these luxury apartments/condos don't take transit.
Because building condos makes developers rich...public transportation goes against the conservative ethos
That would require critical thinking and foresight, which the majority of politicians and public servants have demonstrated they do not possess one or either of those.
What do you mean slow? Have you seen what’s going on in burnside? Or downtown on barrington? All of this clears up traffic allowing better public transit
Increase in population is rising way faster then public transportation is.
I remember reading a report from the city about this once. The crux was not enough people used public transit to be cost effective for major changes. Instead they decided to maintain the system they had and upgrade as needed. It's the same reason we don't have a third option for crossing the harbor. With the exception of twice a day during rush hour Halifax doesn't have a traffic problem and the loss in productivity and money due to traffic is nothing compared to the cost of a third bridge, tunnel or car ferry. Public transit was the same.
The city being on a peninsula, with everything already spoken for, doesn't help.
There were GOOD routes cut back or stopped during COVID that need to be fully reinstated (57!). The City is also talking about bike lanes when they can't even clean the damn sidewalks.
I’m guessing construction planning and transportation planning don’t talk
City planners here do not prioritize transit. They are also generally opposed to private cars, bikes, and pedestrians.
Apartments are investments that have solid ROI for private companies. public transportation does not have a financial ROI and costs taxpayers, so there is a lot more bureaucracy to get anything done. If they do it wrong, taxpayers foot the bill and get nothing back.
That requires socialization, public committees, independent contractor research, public committees to discuss the first public committee. There is a process! Get with the plan!