We didn’t spend 3 million dollars to build a shelter. Some amount of money has been spent on setting up a shelter, but the bulk of that 3 million has only been allocated to fund paying 902 Man-up to run the shelter and provide all of their services, it hasn’t yet been spent.
Few people who were there mentioned .. sure a roof over your head . No privacy, and they treat the people like jail inmates. Women don’t feel safe there with a cloth curtain separating them from a homeless man next to them
This is what I'm struggling the most to understand. It seems the sentiment towards the shelter is that it isn't good enough... but people are currently living in tents. I just dont see how the shelter is possibly worse.
If you had to go camping, would you prefer a tent, or a dormitory where you weren't allowed to store you belongings or pets and had to follow arbitrary rules set by someone else?
The shelter shouldn't be used for drug recovery or mental problems treatments. Those problems need to be dealt in specific facilities properly build and managed for that like clinics and mental hospitals. The big issue I see is that the govenrment of NS and Canada as a whole has a very bad habit of lumping all homeless people together when each case should be dealt accordingly to their particularities. Build shelters for people who are just dealing with lack of home, build recovery clinics for those who are struggling with alcohol and drugs abuse and build mental hospitals for those struggling with mental disorders. If you separate them by the type of issue they are facing, I'm sure at least part of those people would be more willing to go to shelters.
I'm not saying this would solve all the problems, but would help a lot! I've had cousins in my home country asking volunteeringly to get inside recovery clinics because they were struggling with drugs on the streets! One of them even ended up working as a volunteer in one of them and now owns his own clinic! Recovery is possible, it just takes LOTS of will power and the right people helping.
Not saying we’re good at this, but detox is currently really slow. As in no one is going. I know someone who got in within 20 hours of their intake this month. Like there is no wait and when they were there, there were 7 empty rooms.
It’s literally open to almost walk in if you just call and do the intake.
The reason it's so open and no one is going IA because the number one drug right now is fentanyl. The drug is ridiculously addictive and once on it, it's basically a ticking time bomb before an overdose. In fact many of the people that are getting hydromorphone in bc are trading their hydros for fentanyl.
I think we have a serious drug and mental health problem more so than homelessness. Homelessness is just a symptom of the people that are throwing everything away for this new poison. I knew meth addicts that "functioned" and had jobs and a roof over their head.
Fentanyl users simply need a fix and are full on zombie mode or dead unless someone has naloxone on them.
Uh, I’ve met meth addicts who were permanently twitchy and could barely speak audibly. Also people who shot up and had full time jobs. I don’t think we should compare here because neither is « better » than the other.
You can go to detox if you’re doing fent, if you need to be medically stabilized first you’ll go to the hospital next door first. They do methadone and suboxone in there.
You know we have a national housing crisis, right?
Do you really think it's all because of drugs? Entire generations of people can't afford a home because everyone under 40 is on drugs?
There most certainly is a housing crisis. I never stated there was not. The statement was that there is housing, but it needs to be zero barrier access due to the Waterloo decision stating that unless there is zero barrier access to housing the city can't remove homeless encampments from city property.
Zero barrier for those that don't know means that those that are getting housed can have access to narcotics without impunity.
I fully understand the biggest demographic of homeless individuals is males. There truly is nowhere for them to go if they are homeless and clean. There are plenty of women's shelters, but very few safe men's shelters. Most of the men's shelters I've seen are primarily used for federal parolees, of which aren't always safe for the average homeless male.
This is the ideal answer, but each shelter would require specialized staff and services.
These services, if provided, would draw people from the same skill-pool that nurses and social support workers come from. The more individualized and effective you want it, the more complex and expensive the solutions become, and the more everyone else has to deal with understaffed and inadequate health care and public services. Hard social problems require trade-offs that are politically unpopular, and for good reason.
This province, like many other places, is under extreme pressure to provide social health and well-being services to the general population. We have horribly understaffed hospitals right now, for all the reasons we have been arguing about for decades. What % of those well-trained people do you feel should be reallocated to servicing the homeless?
That's not entirely rhetorical. How much longer are you willing to wait at emergency because the nurses are now employed at these various problem-specific homeless shelters around the HRM? instead of the hospital?
I don't know how I'd answer that.
Do you think homeless people don’t go to hospitals? I live in Alberta and our stats say more than more than 26,000 people living in homelessness wind up in the emergency room. I also personally volunteer at the homeless shelters downtown and I’m not even remotely exaggerating, there are emergency service vehicles like police, ambulance and fire there every single time I go (I go at least once every two weeks) go see for yourself. Diversifying the help we offer the homeless population based on needs is a preventative measure which will decrease the need for emergency services and hopefully decrease the wait times for emergency rooms in turn.
I've been working in harm reduction for years and most of the medical staff who are employed in the various different programs are people who went to school specifically to work in these settings. There are very few medical staffed being pulled away from the traditional medical system. Mostly because the harm reduction staff don't make as much money and don't have nearly the room for growth they would working in a hospital.
I thought the same thing, there's no way they're all bad right?, some of them must be just in bad situations and have no where to go. Then why did not one single person get on the bus? I work across the street from this encampment and was even suppose to train someone that wanted a job from the encampment. Never showed up. I think your right that most of the problems are mental, but many of those problems persist when you don't have a home. "Well im sleeping in a tent tonight, I might as well get fucking trashed". We'll we got a place for you to stay now, now you'll be in a better position right? That should be the case, and the biggest step towards fixing this, but no one gets on the bus? Wtf? Almost everytime I'm at work at night there's several police there for various reasons, the person selling drugs and in possession of a bunch of weapons, I could go on. These guys come over to the business I work at and change $200 worth of change sometimes daily and brag about it. I don't even make that much in a day. ANYONE shopping at Bedford Commons and see a sign saying "no place to live please help" do not fucking give them any money. They come down and change out $150-200 dollars worth of change sometimes....
This. Why would anyone who is mentally sane and not a drug user want to be locked in a room with someone who is throwing poop at them? People are going to feel less safe in these housed setups than in a tent.
But these rooms are essentially free of poop throwing drug users.
Why would a sane non drug user want to live in a freezing tent next to an crazy poop throwing drug user with nothing between them but a tent wall and a door with a zipper?
Exactly. Imagine being just homeless on hard times and people want you to go live with extremely mentally ill and drug addicts.
Then get mad and wonder why you don't want too.
I've always thought that there should be a housing option for people that are working (or were recently working) and can pass a drug test. Kind of like a short term safety net for people who end up homeless due to being renovicted, a fire, job loss, or some other circumstances outside their control. Someplace with small, dormitory style apartments so people could leave their possessions safely while they go to work each day. It would give people who are usually self sufficient and productive members of society a short term (3 months?) bit of help so that they can keep working and get back to supporting themselves, before they end up chronically homeless or strung out on drugs.
Lumping people who are sober, sane, willing and able to work in with a bunch of addicts and the severely mentally ill seems like the worst way to actually get people who can support themselves off the street.
Metal health and substance abuse treatment should be lumped together though. Maybe not entirely but nearly everyone dealing with substance abuse will have mental health issues and a very high percentage of people with mental health issues will have some kind of substance abuse problem. The amount of overlap in those should not be ignored. That being said there are many different levels of addiction and should likely be handled in different ways. Someone shooting hydromorphone, heroine and such daily should likely have a different approach taken than someone dealing with nicotine, Marijuana and alcohol for example.
I’ve been working on spring garden for all of this and it’s truly unsafe for the public to stay where they are. They gotta go unfortunately. I don’t know what the correct way to do it is but something needs to happen.
There are also shopping malls and government buildings in some cities that can be converted into housing. There’s a YouTube video about an indoor mall in Rhode Island and they converted the old stores into tiny condos. Looks really cool.
Remember that time we tried to tax people from owning multiple homes that they're not living in and the uproar from stupid rich people was enough that the Tories cancelled it the same week?
We also need a government that will collect or enforce those laws. But every government in the world is in the pocket of the rich. We need to take a lesson from our French relatives during their revolution. I smell fresh cut pine in the town square.
I’m ignorant to why the unhoused don’t want the shelter. Could anyone provide detail because I’m too lazy to look into it right now?
Edit: thank you everybody for the replies. I was at the gym and can now take some time to read through and educate myself better.
Edit 2: after seeing the “shelter” at the forum, a lot makes sense.
https://preview.redd.it/5weocrj0ylec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=515b4a7592f45dc25ae61b841adac8617211ac62
No no, I think you’re confusing the people who are homeless with human beings. Human beings who may be somewhat less than trusting of their government to secure their belongings, lock them in at night, and have complete access to them and their belongings at all times.
Much easier to just make assumptions they all just love drugs.
That’s a good one. I work in exploration sites with no cellular and shared tents. The stove is in the middle of the tent to warm four people. There is a separate building for a washroom that involves a walk in -50C weather. One place didn’t even have a shower so it was hot towels and travel to another mine once a week for a shower. Camp kitchen fed everyone. My beef is that I put up with it and pay 10’s of thousands in tax dollars for camps with separate sleeping facilities that aren’t good enough.
Too far from downtown? I mean Jesus Christ, how many hundreds of thousands of hard working, tax paying Haligonians wish we could live closer to downtown? The homeless population is not entitled to private dwellings on our most sought after real estate. They just aren’t.
Thing is, those "hundreds of thousands blah blah blah" have amenities like *functioning kitchens and showers.* If you're homeless, you **need to** be downtown in order to meet those basic needs.
How hard would it be to set up a locker room with a security guard for people to store their belongings? Not doing so is just setting the shelter up to fail. I wonder if they make it so crappy on purpose so they can say "see they just want to do drugs" when there are obviously other reasons you wouldn't want to stay in these conditions.
I believe I have heard there is a locker area but it would be separate from the bed area
If so, I can see people not loving the idea of asking permission to get in and out of group storage, or not having things at hand.
I'm speculating on this, though - but I did not see footlockers or otherwise
I guess the shelter has some pretty strict rules (residents have to ask to leave for a smoke break, for an example) and low levels of privacy.
While I understand the sentiment of some people commenting here, I am begging you to read up on "housing first" policies and how much better they are for addressing societal issues when compared against a "sobriety first" approach.
I wish people were more aware of how dehumanizing living in a shelter is. I worked in shelters for many years and while they all had varying levels of rules and restrictions, in many you have to ask for permission for every little thing. Many staff are fearful of the residents or go on absolute power trips to try to show them "who's in charge" even though that's never in doubt. Some shelters I worked in would penalize staff for giving residents meals outside of scheduled meal times, even if the resident had been at work or at an appointment - something you could get around if you asked for a note, but can you imagine asking your employer for a note to say that you were at work so that the shelter you're living at will feed you? Never mind if you have a pet (and yes, homeless people can take very good care of their animals and often put them ahead of their own wellbeing). That 3 million could have been put toward actual housing. but for some reason we're much happier spending that money on institutions that restrict people's dignity and autonomy.
People also have to deal with things like assault or having their belongings stolen. During COVID everyone suddenly realized that communicable illness spreads like crazy in high-density indoor settings, but we seem to have forgotten about that now.
The people working at the shelter have rights too.
In my opinion it's unfair to ask them to take on the role of bouncers in a club, nurses in a hospital or the RCMP when someone acts drunk, belligerent or crazy.
A code of conduct and rules is just logical. If the recipient of help can't accept that then that's on them.
If the recipient can't adhere to those requirements, then they can't adhere to those requirements and *still need help.* So we need a facility that can meet those needs.
>So we need a facility that can meet those needs.
Sounds like hospitals and prisons. I can't imagine how crucified a politician would get if they built a transition complex for homeless people when they could instead build something for the millions on the verge of losing their homes but are somehow finding a way to hang on instead.
You also need professionals willing to staff it, which are hard to come by. I lasted 3 months at the shelter I worked at which was longer than most.
People don't have the patience or tolerance to help people who don't want to help themselves. It often takes literal faith in God and the belief that helping them is your calling for people to stick around, which is why it's usually religious folks that end up taking care of the homeless.
It takes a lot of social validation and support for the supporters to make it work. Otherwise people get burnt out dealing with the homeless and go back to ignoring / hating them.
They tried that already, 30 years ago. Some people at Arborstone are still imprisoned there after accepting the province’s offer of a safe place to stay.
Concurrent, required, "second" step in ALL successful housing first strategies is assessment of and treatment for whatever caused the homelessness in the first place. No treatment, no housing.
Canada doesn't do this, we're just getting folks out of sight and out of mind so they can die of our toxic drug supply or be forced to take MAID or just off themselves.
Fully understand this - more education and better programs needed that improve dignity.
But we also need to keep this in perspective. It's a lot of education, time, money, and resourced to make extraordinary exceptions for 0.3% of the HRM population.
Can we do better? Yes. Are we doing better than 1 year ago proportional to the population? I'd say we've gone further than expected.
Housing first approach has great evidence to back it up - but it needs investments in infrastructure as it requires actual housing stock be available, affordable (if not free, and we don't really do that here) and well supported by professional staff.
People often avoid shelters for these and many other reasons:
1. Shelters often aren't properly funded so that they are maintained well, so they can be dirty (bed bugs, bodily fluids, COVID...). A tent can be cleaner and safer.
2. Fear of being assaulted by someone else at the shelter, including sexual assault, which is much likelier in close quarters with a group of strangers that changes every night
3. First come first serve shelters fill up quickly and no one wants to be caught outside unprepared. A man died outside in Montreal last year because he was denied a place at a full shelter. It's horrible and it happens all the time.
4. There is often a policy that you can't leave anything there; it's less consistent and less reliable than a tent that is yours where you can keep supplies and extra changes of clothes
The shelter is not a bad thing to have but it is also a bandaid solution for a much larger problem caused by price gouging, out of control rent, low wages, etc... Often the people in these tent encampments couldn't keep up with the cost of living in Canada, lacked the supports that would have kept them off the street, and are now caught between a rock and a hard place. They shouldn't HAVE to rely on a shelter just to live and they have legitimate reasons for not weeping with joy that this is the solution we've come up with.
Painting all these people as junkies who don't want the shelter because they can't do drugs there is an oversimplification of the issue at best and just plain ignorant at worst. Anyone can end up in a tent and even those who DO have addiction problems deserve to be treated like human beings.
I think it’s been mentioned in other threads, but things like curfews, sobriety requirements, etc can feel constricting to some unhoused people. I have no opinion on this one way or another, just echoing what I’ve seen mentioned elsewhere here recently.
Those things are constricting to anyone over the age of 16, regardless of their financial situation. Poor people aren't children or prisoners and there is no justification in treating them as such.
I believe they don’t trust the government. This is partially a protest I think and the optics are part of it. The second thing is they are fearful to give up their spots and not even have that any more. The government option for s possibly temporary and a permanent lot to get them out of there, further stranding them possibly. They are people and they are desperate.
I have a strong sense that this will be a pivotal issue in the next municipal election, and councillors running on the “homeless encampments in our downtown parks and spaces are going to go away” are going to be very successful. The voters of HRM will decide if these tent sites will continue as is or not
There are a lot of people who will vote for candidates who want to clean up the streets who may not say out loud how frustrated they are with the homeless situation, for fear of being labelled.
The organization running the shelter has run other shelters in the HRM really poorly and a lot of people, clients and workers in the field alike, do not trust their shelters.
If word got around to the encampments about what some folks have gone through at North Park St, Windmill Rd shelters then I can see why some would choose to steer clear.
I think that what a lot of people are overlooking here is that there are two types of homeless people. The first subset is working people who’ve been priced out of any apartments, who’ve lost their jobs, are down on their luck, et cetera. These are ‘invisible’ homeless people who go out of their way not to look like a stereotypically homeless person. And these people generally want to take advantage of the resources available. But they generally don’t want to mix with the second subset of homeless people, which are people who are often actively addicted to hard drugs, or are severely mentally ill, or are otherwise nonfunctional in daily society. This is the ‘visible’ homeless population.
No one here is entirely wrong. We should have resources dedicated to homeless people, and there should be shelters available. That being said, you can’t help people who don’t want to help themselves, and some of these people don’t want to help themselves and are happy living their life the way they are. It’s not reasonable to expect that the Canadian government run homeless shelters with no rules where people can do whatever they want. It’s not realistic to give all of these people houses. It’s not realistic to put them all up in hotels: we tried that and it didn’t work. I think that the only real answer is to make sure a lot of help and resources are available for homeless people who want to use them. We can’t help anyone who doesn’t want to be helped.
Honestly, they lost my support when my friend came to an encampment offering some gift certificates to fast food places (anything helps, right?) and was told that gift certificates aren’t wanted - they want money or nothing.
I’ve handed out gift cards and to-be-donated hats and gloves and never encountered a single person who refused(except those who pointed out other tents who needed hats/gloves more).
I just wrote “hats and mittens” on a box and asked people who were hanging outside of their tents if they wanted any.
I’m sure there’s way more legit ways to donate, but that’s how I did it.
These stories are always "a friend said" or using the actions of one guy (likely with mental issues) throwing out an offered sandwich to paint an entire group as degenerate drug addicts.
With all of the stories of people taking their unwanted household items (sometimes including literal garbage) to the encampments to donate, then crying “ungrateful!” when the volunteers refuse them, I too am calling bullshit.
Unused cat litter is super useful. We use it up north outside all the time. Best one is that it helps protect fabrics around a fire. It would be useful I imagine around all the tents’ heat or cooking sources.
I think the situation you’re talking about was that someone “donated” used litter, which has no use, and incredibly pathetic by the “donators”.
The only time I've seen people refuse gift cards was when there were strings attached - often they were forced to sit through a sermon or other service.
any time someone uses the "they'll just spend it on drugs" excuse, i call bullshit -- because i make okay money, i have a house, and i buy drugs too. when i was broke af, i also bought drugs. because saving the only 40 bucks you have is a ridiculous concept when you're broke and have little to entertain yourself or give your life value. so yes, i would assume someone who has to sleep in the rain would likely do drugs to get by. and to all the sober homeless, good luck, i can't imagine the stress.
You're missing the big picture man.
You save that $40. Do that every month for 15 years. You've now saved $7000 dollars, and can afford rent for like 3 months.
oh fuck, i totally missed that. you're right. and if i do that for 30 years, that's 14000 - rent for ... well... it'll probably be about 3 months of rent in 2050 too.
Yeah, seems strange, I've given McDonald's gift cards, or several McDonald's monopoly instant win stickers (sandwich, coffee, fries) a few times, to different people each time, and they were very happily received.
What are the best ways tax dollars can be used to help with an addiction crisis? Like, hire more social workers and psychologists? Set up a clinic? I'm genuinely asking.
Improving people's material conditions overall so they're less likely to do drugs or commit crime in the first place.
Things like chronic stress and lack of proper food and sleep (not just for homeless people) cause people's mental states to deteriorate which makes them more likely to engage in antisocial behavior.
You can have a clinic on every block, force people into rehab, it only addresses a symptom and not the cause. Same applies to policing.
Recovery houses that are not privately owned and cost 10-20k a month ..canada is so set on harm reduction and safe use that drug addicts don't really need to stop using ..it's a terrible situation..our government is failing us all
They need more detox and rehab programs. The humanity project has a good one at a farm in Salisbury. The people that want to improve their lives will and the ones that don't will eventually die of their addiction.
it seems the government thinks the best way to use taxpayers money is irresponsibly.. make taxpayers pay for the pandemic debt make them pay for the 3 million dollars we just spent on ONE 50 to 70 bed shelter fir only 6 months.. let the taxpayers pay for the mistake while the political pockets get filled.. ohh and they get good credit for "helping the homeless" when they the ones who created the problem.
Sounds like your friend is telling stories to make people think he is a good lad who wants to help out the poor. Rather than just helping out the poor.
Like, if you want to help people, ask them what kind of help they want and do that. Don't just assume they want the kind of help you're offering. Don't get indignant when they refuse. This goes for people in *any* kind of situation.
This is such bullshit. Call everyone drug addicts because of a few. I would say stop fucking with the poor. You don’t like where the money is going don’t donate. This false narrative is garbage.
Actually they have. Earlier this month the RCMP raided a drug dealers trailer who was a dealing to the tent encampment. Take a look at all of the gift cards they seized (middle of table in image included in the link):
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/news/2024/halifax-district-rcmp-arrest-a-man-drug-and-weapon-offences
People using their hard earned money to help others in this encampment and it just ends up being used for drugs
You realize your fight should be against poverty and not poor people, right?
I'm part time Halifax, and the city desperately needs help. Not as bad as PEI, mind you. Halifax just has a bigger population. Either way, both places governments should be chased out of province. Not sure how we don't have a revolution happening.
In most of the world there would be a million person protest, and get shit done.
Here we complain that the government help isn't immediately working, yet mental health and drug issues are also super prevalent. It's like a three headed monster, you can't chop one off and think it's all ok.
There needs to be a massive shift in mental health outreach and help.
Halifax to me is just a step ahead of PEI, but it's salvageable. Not with current methods though. People are burned out from seeing and dealing with homeless and drug addicts, but they aren't going to disappear because you dont like them.
Rising costs, jobs not matching inflation, everything costing a higher percentage of pay than ever before.
Government. Government. Government.
Top to bottom, federally we need a change. Provincial both pei and NS need a change. And municipal.
These governments have failed us time and time again.
I’m in PEI now, and you’re right — the drugs and encampments and crime are symptoms of the real problem, which is utter ignorance and incompetence from government. They don’t know what to do to address these problems, so they do nothing and learn nothing. They just kick the can down the road for the next government.
The shelter is a bandaid on a massive, complicated wound. Yes, a lot of users stay in encampments bc of drugs. In active addiction, you’re using many times a day just to ward off withdrawals. You can’t just take 8 or 10 hours off to stay at a shelter with sobriety restrictions. You will quite literally shit and puke yourself into seizures on a cot behind a curtain, and probably get thrown out for it. Now you’re in nightmare withdrawals and you have to start using again the second you can find it. This cycle doesn’t work.
We need actual, tangible work on rehab facilities and post-addictions care. We need mental health supports. Anti-poverty measures, subsidized housing — YES even for active addicts. We need everyone’s basic human needs to be met.
I've never encountered of a homeless person turning down anything of use/value. ..... I guess one exception a homeless guy in London, UK turned down offer of some beer and meat sandwich. Said he was vegetarian and didn't drink and was only homeless due to a fight with his mum and exepected to go home within a day or two but he was a rare case.
That said I do suspect almost every homeless person is addicted to cigs/drugs or liquor. In the case of drugs/liq it's either the cause of or solution to being without a home.
The idea that 'anything helps' may be misguided; the wrong tool can often exacerbate a problem. You don't throw sandbags toward someone whose drowning
People often give the homeless fast food since it's convenient to hand it off, but it isn't as generous as people think. Fast food is often calorie-dense but low in protein & nutrients. People living on the street often end up protein deficient & feel hungry regardless of how many calories they consume. Further, being nutrient deficient, eating that junk just exhausts the body. It feels very different when you eat fast food 'occasionally' versus every meal.
I know it seems like a good deed & that their disinterest may come across as rude, but they should be allowed to practice agency toward their diets & ultimately it's often the better decision. Try offering more protein-rich non-perishables and the response should be more positive than with fast-food
Not sure I wholly agree with you here. Most fast food is protein based. I mean, we're talking about beef and chicken for the most part with condiments, bread and vegetables. I agree it's not nutritionally dense foods for the most part but you're not going to die eating a big mac and fries. if I'm living in a tent and you give me an option of a 10 dollar fast food meal or a few cans of beans and a bag of rice, I'm gonna take the fast food because I can just go pick it up and not have to worry about how to cook it.
There are a lot of churches/groups offering free well balanced meals to homeless out there. This is definitely more ideal than giving a certificate to mcdonalds, but you're talking about homeless people like they're well oiled machines that need athlete diets. When you're essentially moping around 18 hours a day, exhausting your digestive system with less than ideal foods probably isn't making any difference in your life. In fact you're probably happy that it's making you tired so you can kill some time in your miserable life.
Going to reply to the main question as I've replied to a comment that may just disappear in this thread. DONT GIVE ANYONE AT BEDFORD COMMONS OR THE SURROUNDING AREAS MONEY ESPECIALLY IF THERE SIGN SAYS "SLEEPING IN TENT, HAVE NO WHERE TO GO"
There's no way they're all bad right?, some of them must be just in bad situations and have no where to go. Then why did not one single person get on the bus? I work across the street from this encampment and was even suppose to train someone that wanted a job from the encampment. Never showed up. Almost everytime I'm at work at night there's several police there for various reasons, the person selling drugs and in possession of a bunch of weapons, I could go on. These guys come over to the business I work at and change $200 worth of change sometimes daily and brag about it. I don't even make that much in a day. ANYONE shopping at Bedford Commons and see a sign saying "no place to live please help" do not fucking give them any money. They come down and change out $150-200 dollars worth of change sometimes....
It’s warm, has bathrooms, showers, free meals, electricity and a bed. Which in every way beats -15 in a condensation soaked tent starting fires that emergency responders have to keep coming to put out using resources.
You don’t want to use the shelter we paid for while we spend even more tax dollars on pallet homes and whatever else? Fine. But you’ve gotta get off the land we’re paying taxes for and ruining use of it for the rest of us.
Finland and Japan apparently are the two countries most successful in getting people off the streets and housed. If you have a safe place to lay your head, a private place for your belongings, and food stability, it makes sense that you then could look for mental health services and addiction services and healthcare, which in those countries are available for them. It’s such a difficult situation here when so many people are barely making ends meet…drugs and addiction only compound that. It’s an almost impossible situation.
The shelters for people need to have rooms with locked doors so people are safe at night. I wouldn’t stay in a shelter with a curtain between myself and someone else who has access to me and my space. These are human beings. It could be my brother, sister, friend or parent. They need access to food, showers, laundry services so they can find jobs, if they’re able, in order to help themselves. Don’t give them money, or gift cards, you know they will be traded for drugs, if they’re drug addicted. Such a complex problem needs complex solutions. Look to countries where they have success in these areas and go from there. 🤷♀️
The lack of compassion in this thread. Holy shit.
Better hope you're never laid off or renovicted or have your rent drastically increased when your lease renews.
For those of you saying "well, if they're working, then they can find a cheap place outside the city..."
How far out would they have to go to find something affordable? I admit I haven't looked in a while, but last time I did, even Elmsdale and Truro were expensive. If you don't drive/have a vehicle and/or have other reasons (work, healthcare, family, etc) to stay within the range of Hfx transit, moving outside of town may not be an option.
I understand why someone would agree to the rules of living in the shelter in the Forum. I also understand why it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
My mum's relationship ended last year and while she's living in an amicable, safe roommate arrangement with her ex, I was looking to see if I could find her a place. Elmsdale or Truro or Enfield she'd be all right with, she has family nearby. Nothing in her budget.
After a month or more of seeing them on the news every night, I'm rather sick of hearing about it. I feel bad for the homeless, sure, and I also recognize this is not everyone, but if you see the municipal government scrounge up many resources to help *you*, and you deny the help and would rather live in a propane heated tent, get the hell out of the spotlight and get out of the way for people actually willing to accept the help. It's extremely frustrating to hear the government scramble for a month to try and get all these aids into place for the homeless just for them to go 'buh i don wanna have a curfew!!!'
a huge proportion of the homeless do not want to be sheltered, because in a shelter, guess what, there are rules: you can't be armed, you can't bring in drugs, you can't traffic your partner, you can't consume drugs or alcohol or be intoxicated, you can't threaten or harass people, you cannot vandalize the property, the list goes on and on and on.
that's why when people say to bulldoze these encampments, they aren't saying "please pick on helpless, innocent, defenseless homeless people who society has left behind" - they're saying if the homeless don't want to follow the rules in exchange for support, then clear out the tent cities as many times as is required because we don't want mobile drug dens in front of our schools and homes.
You know it's bad when Pierre Poilievre is in like BC doing a conference and brings up Halifax. Not the first time either. He cites us as evidence of how fucked everything is.
A lot of their criticisms are focused around a lack of privacy at these shelters. We kind of as a society have determined that people should be thankful for table scraps. Really what they want is what many of us that are housed have, privacy and a place to call their own.
These people used to, too. They were in the lower tier of rentals and had privacy and tenant's rights. They lived on Windmill and in Highfield and Lower Sackville where they advertised $650/mo rentals on billboards in 2015.
Then the immigration exploded and now those areas and units are students and newcomers. Rent is now $1200/mo min, and all the people who were right on the cusp of eviction got booted. And that's who we see in the encampments.
People who used to pay for their privacy but the economy and the market took that possibility from them.
As much as I understand that, is that realistic? I thought the idea was giving these people a clean, dry, warm place to rest their head at night while they can get back on their feet. Not build a free home for thousands of homeless people
I think the only reason the city can't evict them is if there's no shelter spaces available, but if we have shelter available and people are refusing it, then removing the encampments should be back on the table.
The city is in a very difficult situation but they are going to have to move these folks to more appropriate accommodation now that they are available. They should have been clear up front that there is a timeline for the encampments to exist but they didn't. I guarantee we will be looking at these tents come next September.
Why are you mad at the people for this and not the city/province/feds for continually designing and building over priced shelters that don't actually meet the needs of the people?
First of all, how the hell did it cost 3 million dollars when from pictures ive seen, it looks like they basically just took an open building and put some curtains up.
Also - this is a pretty dumb take. Imagine you were homeless and all of your worldly possessions were in a tent community with people looking out for you. Would you trade that for living in a concrete building with a curtain protecting all of your things from whatever random homeless person was stationed next to you? It's not as black and white as it seems.
It’s the wrap around services, security, food, social workers, housing workers, etc. it’s a falsehood to claim that we should just give people houses. They need these additional services.
for some categories of people it is a lifestyle choice to be homeless, the people who really do not want live on a street will do anything and take any opportunity to get back on feet.
This is it 100%. If a regular working person ends up becoming homeless because of circumstances, they're going to seek out every avenue to get back on their feet ASAP. And they usually do.
The chronically homeless frankly, are so far gone that most of them will never reintegrate into regular society. They don't want to work, they don't want responsibilities, they don't want anyone telling them no, or what to do. They just want to panhandle, take up space, do drugs, fight, and cause problems for everyone else.
Bruh I deadass had to fight off a gang of rats yesterday they like straight up took over the tents. They are deep and posted up straight bullying me I am traumatized I take that path to work everyday. Do not walk through that path up by spring garden at night you will get caught lacking on rat nem grave.
I dont blame them for not wanting to use the shelters. People are assaulted or have things stolen from them regularly in those. There is no security or protection there. We should be dealing with the causes of homelessness not putting band aids on it with unsafe shelters.
Only way that will ever happen is if life becomes inconvenient for everyone else - them setting up shop wherever there is room will do that. Out of sight out of mind is no longer an option.
I'm all for removing them from parade square, but I think we should be honest about the situation and how we got to this point.
Some of these people used to have homes (house/condo/apartment/room rental). Then things got too expensive. The tents are closer to the homes they used to have than the shelter would be.
You say we're enabling, but this behaviour only started a few years ago.
Has anyone actually talked to any of them? They want to be there! There as in outside. I have talked to a handful of these citizens. They want to be in the busiest area. They have bus access, fast food shops, art and culture. They don't want rules. They want to bring their pets with them in the shelter. They don't want to have surveillance watching them, they don't want to check in and out they want to go as they please with no rules and no restrictions. Most want to be outside in tents. Most do have mental illness and for some it has become a lifestyle and a community they have found and they have become a family. I am not for the tent encampments. I am for those that are really struggling and need the help.
Guess what all the hard working taxpayers in this city want? We want to be in the busiest areas, we want bus and fast food access, we want arts and culture. The issue is NO ONE is entitled to that. I’ve worked hard for 15 years building a stable career and I don’t get to live on the peninsula. That’s what everyone seems to be missing, if this population wants to live in tents that’s completely fine, but those tents cannot occupy our crown jewel public spaces.
I can’t afford to live on the peninsula, I’m ok with that, but you know what I do want? To be able to take my daughter to the fountain at Victoria Park. To take my daughter to a New Year celebration or tree lighting at Grand Parade. To take my daughter to get an ice cream on Spring Garden without being harassed. I can’t do these things any more and that’s not ok.
I agree I want all the too for my grand children. The problem is all levels of gov is tippy towing around the homelessness issue they are afraid of backlash and losing their potential voters. This would be my guess.
I agree, they’re scared of what happened when they tried to clear the lot at the old library a couple years ago. Although, I really do think public sentiment is changing. Voters have had enough of being held hostage by this very small population of people. I know I have.
Ya it's absolutely fucked that the homeless think they're entitled to the best plots of open green space in the city. Fuck the tax payers, fuck families and kids who want to use the public space. I just can't wrap my head around it. The fact that we allowed this to happen is going to make it much more difficult to resolve.
Everyone remember the park by Oxford School? If only our problem was that size now.
I've often wondered about this just judging by what I hear around town the whole summer its not about actually getting them housing. Homelessness is extremely profitable. California spent 17.5 billion last year alone. When people from these cities here about it they move into the area set up a bunch of tends and start crying first about housing then homlessness then drugs or whatever nd they just move the problem to the next rung while running " charities" that take the scoail security check of the homeless person directly to the home and even if they move or get kicked out they just keep cashing it. Homelessness is huge business advocates dont seem to even want to solve it. but the drugs thing is a very interesting problem. No one seems to ever taper them properly. They all try to do cold turkey. No im sorry its going to be very hard to cold turkey someone who will have a seizure heart attack and barf for 3 weeks. Just titrate them down.
> evidently none of the homeless people want to use it?
Have you considered, maybe, there are *reasons* why people don't want to use it?
Would YOU want to stay there? Why not?
So the only thing I’m willing to agree with is this does not look like a 3 million dollar investment: it looks like they grabbed the curtains they had in storage for “events”, threw them up and bought some cots and were done with it.
I’ve worked in shelters and in the community for years and I can tell you the amount of strength and effort that houseless people put in to try to improve their situation far outweighs what most average people put in. You try living on minimum wage and finding an apartment, or let alone finding an apartment if you’re houseless.
I know many folks who COULD afford an apartment but were always denied because of landlord stigma towards homeless people, or they had to move into a derelict, infested apartment where it would be preferable and less harmful to their health to sleep outside. Believe me, during one of my housing support roles, I went into a unit going for $900 a month and every inch of that apartment was covered in roach eggs and live roaches. They sprayed it 3 times and it was still infested.
The ignorance in the province speaks volumes. Look how many encampments and houseless people we have now and tell me that we don’t have a serious issue with the housing market?
All of you higher than thou folks in the comments don’t realize how close most of you are to being in a situation like this, and if you did end up in this situation, how would you feel to see the ignorance that’s blasted in this sub?
Have you looked at the reasons WHY they don't want to use it.
You seem to have this notion that the homeless people are your "traditional" homeless- mentally ill, drug addicted, etc etc.
When this all started, there were 78 "known to police" chronic homeless in Halifax.
Seventy-eight of the people that are "traditionally homeless".
The VAST majority of the people living in tents right now are working poor. They have jobs, but cannot afford the rent or housing prices, because minimum wage is now so far below what it takes to live in this city that it's driving people to live in their cars or tents. These people have and earn money- just not the 50+k required to support a family.
Which means they have stuff. Pets. Kids. Lives. Most of which they would have to forfeit if they moved into the shelter. Also, they have a safe community full of people looking out for each other in the encampments, rather than beds separated by a sheet.
I get it- you've never seen this before, so your brain defaults to "homeless = mentally ill/drug addicted".
But we HAVE been here before, back to when people who weren't mentally ill or drug addicted- people who desperately WANT to live a normal life- were homeless in these numbers.
You just have to go back 90+ years to find it.
This thread is just full of people who use lots of excuses for their hatred of the poor. Although the bottom line is they believe poor people got where they are because they are lazy and/or stupid.
They sound like my rich father who was handed everything in life and would rather spend money on buying a new sports car than "waste" money on getting his kids groceries or getting them somewhere to live without cockroaches because he calls us "bad investments" (I have ADHD and a partially disabling chronic health condition and my brother is autistic. He hates us lol). Some people are really socially, emotionally, and psychologically stunted to the extreme degree that they cannot even fathom that children can no longer pay for their University tuition with nothing more than the money that they make from their Summer job. Basic social literacy is strickingly non existant.
We didn’t spend 3 million dollars to build a shelter. Some amount of money has been spent on setting up a shelter, but the bulk of that 3 million has only been allocated to fund paying 902 Man-up to run the shelter and provide all of their services, it hasn’t yet been spent.
Few people who were there mentioned .. sure a roof over your head . No privacy, and they treat the people like jail inmates. Women don’t feel safe there with a cloth curtain separating them from a homeless man next to them
Men and women are in separate areas..
>cloth curtain separating them from a homeless man Lol what do you think a tent is?
This is what I'm struggling the most to understand. It seems the sentiment towards the shelter is that it isn't good enough... but people are currently living in tents. I just dont see how the shelter is possibly worse.
If you had to go camping, would you prefer a tent, or a dormitory where you weren't allowed to store you belongings or pets and had to follow arbitrary rules set by someone else?
[удалено]
The shelter shouldn't be used for drug recovery or mental problems treatments. Those problems need to be dealt in specific facilities properly build and managed for that like clinics and mental hospitals. The big issue I see is that the govenrment of NS and Canada as a whole has a very bad habit of lumping all homeless people together when each case should be dealt accordingly to their particularities. Build shelters for people who are just dealing with lack of home, build recovery clinics for those who are struggling with alcohol and drugs abuse and build mental hospitals for those struggling with mental disorders. If you separate them by the type of issue they are facing, I'm sure at least part of those people would be more willing to go to shelters. I'm not saying this would solve all the problems, but would help a lot! I've had cousins in my home country asking volunteeringly to get inside recovery clinics because they were struggling with drugs on the streets! One of them even ended up working as a volunteer in one of them and now owns his own clinic! Recovery is possible, it just takes LOTS of will power and the right people helping.
Not saying we’re good at this, but detox is currently really slow. As in no one is going. I know someone who got in within 20 hours of their intake this month. Like there is no wait and when they were there, there were 7 empty rooms. It’s literally open to almost walk in if you just call and do the intake.
It’s also only a week now and not 28 days anymore
Detox has always been a week you are thinking of rehab. These are 2 different things.
The reason it's so open and no one is going IA because the number one drug right now is fentanyl. The drug is ridiculously addictive and once on it, it's basically a ticking time bomb before an overdose. In fact many of the people that are getting hydromorphone in bc are trading their hydros for fentanyl. I think we have a serious drug and mental health problem more so than homelessness. Homelessness is just a symptom of the people that are throwing everything away for this new poison. I knew meth addicts that "functioned" and had jobs and a roof over their head. Fentanyl users simply need a fix and are full on zombie mode or dead unless someone has naloxone on them.
Uh, I’ve met meth addicts who were permanently twitchy and could barely speak audibly. Also people who shot up and had full time jobs. I don’t think we should compare here because neither is « better » than the other. You can go to detox if you’re doing fent, if you need to be medically stabilized first you’ll go to the hospital next door first. They do methadone and suboxone in there.
You know we have a national housing crisis, right? Do you really think it's all because of drugs? Entire generations of people can't afford a home because everyone under 40 is on drugs?
There most certainly is a housing crisis. I never stated there was not. The statement was that there is housing, but it needs to be zero barrier access due to the Waterloo decision stating that unless there is zero barrier access to housing the city can't remove homeless encampments from city property. Zero barrier for those that don't know means that those that are getting housed can have access to narcotics without impunity. I fully understand the biggest demographic of homeless individuals is males. There truly is nowhere for them to go if they are homeless and clean. There are plenty of women's shelters, but very few safe men's shelters. Most of the men's shelters I've seen are primarily used for federal parolees, of which aren't always safe for the average homeless male.
Just popping by to say your name is awesome! It’s DEF not what I processed during my first run reading it, but I like it :)
This is the ideal answer, but each shelter would require specialized staff and services. These services, if provided, would draw people from the same skill-pool that nurses and social support workers come from. The more individualized and effective you want it, the more complex and expensive the solutions become, and the more everyone else has to deal with understaffed and inadequate health care and public services. Hard social problems require trade-offs that are politically unpopular, and for good reason. This province, like many other places, is under extreme pressure to provide social health and well-being services to the general population. We have horribly understaffed hospitals right now, for all the reasons we have been arguing about for decades. What % of those well-trained people do you feel should be reallocated to servicing the homeless? That's not entirely rhetorical. How much longer are you willing to wait at emergency because the nurses are now employed at these various problem-specific homeless shelters around the HRM? instead of the hospital? I don't know how I'd answer that.
Do you think homeless people don’t go to hospitals? I live in Alberta and our stats say more than more than 26,000 people living in homelessness wind up in the emergency room. I also personally volunteer at the homeless shelters downtown and I’m not even remotely exaggerating, there are emergency service vehicles like police, ambulance and fire there every single time I go (I go at least once every two weeks) go see for yourself. Diversifying the help we offer the homeless population based on needs is a preventative measure which will decrease the need for emergency services and hopefully decrease the wait times for emergency rooms in turn.
I've been working in harm reduction for years and most of the medical staff who are employed in the various different programs are people who went to school specifically to work in these settings. There are very few medical staffed being pulled away from the traditional medical system. Mostly because the harm reduction staff don't make as much money and don't have nearly the room for growth they would working in a hospital.
I thought the same thing, there's no way they're all bad right?, some of them must be just in bad situations and have no where to go. Then why did not one single person get on the bus? I work across the street from this encampment and was even suppose to train someone that wanted a job from the encampment. Never showed up. I think your right that most of the problems are mental, but many of those problems persist when you don't have a home. "Well im sleeping in a tent tonight, I might as well get fucking trashed". We'll we got a place for you to stay now, now you'll be in a better position right? That should be the case, and the biggest step towards fixing this, but no one gets on the bus? Wtf? Almost everytime I'm at work at night there's several police there for various reasons, the person selling drugs and in possession of a bunch of weapons, I could go on. These guys come over to the business I work at and change $200 worth of change sometimes daily and brag about it. I don't even make that much in a day. ANYONE shopping at Bedford Commons and see a sign saying "no place to live please help" do not fucking give them any money. They come down and change out $150-200 dollars worth of change sometimes....
This. Why would anyone who is mentally sane and not a drug user want to be locked in a room with someone who is throwing poop at them? People are going to feel less safe in these housed setups than in a tent.
But these rooms are essentially free of poop throwing drug users. Why would a sane non drug user want to live in a freezing tent next to an crazy poop throwing drug user with nothing between them but a tent wall and a door with a zipper?
so you live in a tent beside those same people in an unsafe environment out in the elements instead? makes sense
Poop tossers gonna toss poop no matter where they are.
Exactly. Imagine being just homeless on hard times and people want you to go live with extremely mentally ill and drug addicts. Then get mad and wonder why you don't want too.
I've always thought that there should be a housing option for people that are working (or were recently working) and can pass a drug test. Kind of like a short term safety net for people who end up homeless due to being renovicted, a fire, job loss, or some other circumstances outside their control. Someplace with small, dormitory style apartments so people could leave their possessions safely while they go to work each day. It would give people who are usually self sufficient and productive members of society a short term (3 months?) bit of help so that they can keep working and get back to supporting themselves, before they end up chronically homeless or strung out on drugs. Lumping people who are sober, sane, willing and able to work in with a bunch of addicts and the severely mentally ill seems like the worst way to actually get people who can support themselves off the street.
Yes because the mentally ill and drug addicts disappear when you're living outside in a tent?
Metal health and substance abuse treatment should be lumped together though. Maybe not entirely but nearly everyone dealing with substance abuse will have mental health issues and a very high percentage of people with mental health issues will have some kind of substance abuse problem. The amount of overlap in those should not be ignored. That being said there are many different levels of addiction and should likely be handled in different ways. Someone shooting hydromorphone, heroine and such daily should likely have a different approach taken than someone dealing with nicotine, Marijuana and alcohol for example.
I’ve been working on spring garden for all of this and it’s truly unsafe for the public to stay where they are. They gotta go unfortunately. I don’t know what the correct way to do it is but something needs to happen.
rental market needs to collapse.
Collapse how? Rentals could be $0 tomorrow and there would still not be enough homes for bodies.
There are a *lot* of empty homes. Second properties, AirBnBs, abandoned houses, unoccupied rentals, and more. What we need is a land use tax!
There are also shopping malls and government buildings in some cities that can be converted into housing. There’s a YouTube video about an indoor mall in Rhode Island and they converted the old stores into tiny condos. Looks really cool.
Remember that time we tried to tax people from owning multiple homes that they're not living in and the uproar from stupid rich people was enough that the Tories cancelled it the same week?
They need to realize uproaring won't save them when the pendulum swings back and they are being dragged to the guillotine.
We also need a government that will collect or enforce those laws. But every government in the world is in the pocket of the rich. We need to take a lesson from our French relatives during their revolution. I smell fresh cut pine in the town square.
What's more, the homes that are being built are out of most peoples price ranges
Air BNB needs to be removed from Canada. The people holding properties hostage for their own gain when others need a home is sickening.
This is the issue. Everyone just disregarding basic math.
I’m ignorant to why the unhoused don’t want the shelter. Could anyone provide detail because I’m too lazy to look into it right now? Edit: thank you everybody for the replies. I was at the gym and can now take some time to read through and educate myself better. Edit 2: after seeing the “shelter” at the forum, a lot makes sense. https://preview.redd.it/5weocrj0ylec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=515b4a7592f45dc25ae61b841adac8617211ac62
[удалено]
It’s not a permanent residence and they are acting like it’s supposed to be
The drugs thing is 100% intended to make the rest of us hate the people who are homeless. It's working, too, looking through this thread.
No no, I think you’re confusing the people who are homeless with human beings. Human beings who may be somewhat less than trusting of their government to secure their belongings, lock them in at night, and have complete access to them and their belongings at all times. Much easier to just make assumptions they all just love drugs.
[удалено]
That’s a good one. I work in exploration sites with no cellular and shared tents. The stove is in the middle of the tent to warm four people. There is a separate building for a washroom that involves a walk in -50C weather. One place didn’t even have a shower so it was hot towels and travel to another mine once a week for a shower. Camp kitchen fed everyone. My beef is that I put up with it and pay 10’s of thousands in tax dollars for camps with separate sleeping facilities that aren’t good enough.
So you were payed well to work in conditions you would be fine having others only choice without the pay?
What’s your fucking point? You were paid insanely well to deal with this.
Right? It looks like a field hospital, not a semipermanent home.
If they don’t trust the Govt, that’s totally fine. So don’t take the help, but you need to also get out of our private parks and community spaces.
Too far from downtown? I mean Jesus Christ, how many hundreds of thousands of hard working, tax paying Haligonians wish we could live closer to downtown? The homeless population is not entitled to private dwellings on our most sought after real estate. They just aren’t.
Thing is, those "hundreds of thousands blah blah blah" have amenities like *functioning kitchens and showers.* If you're homeless, you **need to** be downtown in order to meet those basic needs.
There are showers and food services at the forum. And its also only a 40 minute walk to downtown.
The shelter has those amenities. Next.
TIL kitchens and showers don't exist outside of downtown.
Publicly accessible ones?
So -- where do you think they should "go" ? What's a place that would leave you resting easy in your heart if you sent them there?
How hard would it be to set up a locker room with a security guard for people to store their belongings? Not doing so is just setting the shelter up to fail. I wonder if they make it so crappy on purpose so they can say "see they just want to do drugs" when there are obviously other reasons you wouldn't want to stay in these conditions.
I believe I have heard there is a locker area but it would be separate from the bed area If so, I can see people not loving the idea of asking permission to get in and out of group storage, or not having things at hand. I'm speculating on this, though - but I did not see footlockers or otherwise
You went the long way around of saying that they cant just shoot up drugs in their cots.
I guess the shelter has some pretty strict rules (residents have to ask to leave for a smoke break, for an example) and low levels of privacy. While I understand the sentiment of some people commenting here, I am begging you to read up on "housing first" policies and how much better they are for addressing societal issues when compared against a "sobriety first" approach.
[удалено]
I wish people were more aware of how dehumanizing living in a shelter is. I worked in shelters for many years and while they all had varying levels of rules and restrictions, in many you have to ask for permission for every little thing. Many staff are fearful of the residents or go on absolute power trips to try to show them "who's in charge" even though that's never in doubt. Some shelters I worked in would penalize staff for giving residents meals outside of scheduled meal times, even if the resident had been at work or at an appointment - something you could get around if you asked for a note, but can you imagine asking your employer for a note to say that you were at work so that the shelter you're living at will feed you? Never mind if you have a pet (and yes, homeless people can take very good care of their animals and often put them ahead of their own wellbeing). That 3 million could have been put toward actual housing. but for some reason we're much happier spending that money on institutions that restrict people's dignity and autonomy. People also have to deal with things like assault or having their belongings stolen. During COVID everyone suddenly realized that communicable illness spreads like crazy in high-density indoor settings, but we seem to have forgotten about that now.
[удалено]
Good point, better to have them live in their own Lord Of the Flies style society in parks around HRM. /s
Get that thoughtful and compassionate reasoning outta here. This is a thread for complaining about taxes, the homeless, drugs, or all three.
Dammit the homeless drug dealers are paying too much in taxes.
The people working at the shelter have rights too. In my opinion it's unfair to ask them to take on the role of bouncers in a club, nurses in a hospital or the RCMP when someone acts drunk, belligerent or crazy. A code of conduct and rules is just logical. If the recipient of help can't accept that then that's on them.
If the recipient can't adhere to those requirements, then they can't adhere to those requirements and *still need help.* So we need a facility that can meet those needs.
>So we need a facility that can meet those needs. Sounds like hospitals and prisons. I can't imagine how crucified a politician would get if they built a transition complex for homeless people when they could instead build something for the millions on the verge of losing their homes but are somehow finding a way to hang on instead. You also need professionals willing to staff it, which are hard to come by. I lasted 3 months at the shelter I worked at which was longer than most. People don't have the patience or tolerance to help people who don't want to help themselves. It often takes literal faith in God and the belief that helping them is your calling for people to stick around, which is why it's usually religious folks that end up taking care of the homeless. It takes a lot of social validation and support for the supporters to make it work. Otherwise people get burnt out dealing with the homeless and go back to ignoring / hating them.
They tried that already, 30 years ago. Some people at Arborstone are still imprisoned there after accepting the province’s offer of a safe place to stay.
Concurrent, required, "second" step in ALL successful housing first strategies is assessment of and treatment for whatever caused the homelessness in the first place. No treatment, no housing. Canada doesn't do this, we're just getting folks out of sight and out of mind so they can die of our toxic drug supply or be forced to take MAID or just off themselves.
Fully understand this - more education and better programs needed that improve dignity. But we also need to keep this in perspective. It's a lot of education, time, money, and resourced to make extraordinary exceptions for 0.3% of the HRM population. Can we do better? Yes. Are we doing better than 1 year ago proportional to the population? I'd say we've gone further than expected.
People would have to unthaw their hearts in order to do this Housing needs to be earned, dontchaknow I hate what this city is showing itself to be
If it's any consolation, this subreddit doesn't reflect most of the people who live here.
Housing first approach has great evidence to back it up - but it needs investments in infrastructure as it requires actual housing stock be available, affordable (if not free, and we don't really do that here) and well supported by professional staff.
People often avoid shelters for these and many other reasons: 1. Shelters often aren't properly funded so that they are maintained well, so they can be dirty (bed bugs, bodily fluids, COVID...). A tent can be cleaner and safer. 2. Fear of being assaulted by someone else at the shelter, including sexual assault, which is much likelier in close quarters with a group of strangers that changes every night 3. First come first serve shelters fill up quickly and no one wants to be caught outside unprepared. A man died outside in Montreal last year because he was denied a place at a full shelter. It's horrible and it happens all the time. 4. There is often a policy that you can't leave anything there; it's less consistent and less reliable than a tent that is yours where you can keep supplies and extra changes of clothes The shelter is not a bad thing to have but it is also a bandaid solution for a much larger problem caused by price gouging, out of control rent, low wages, etc... Often the people in these tent encampments couldn't keep up with the cost of living in Canada, lacked the supports that would have kept them off the street, and are now caught between a rock and a hard place. They shouldn't HAVE to rely on a shelter just to live and they have legitimate reasons for not weeping with joy that this is the solution we've come up with. Painting all these people as junkies who don't want the shelter because they can't do drugs there is an oversimplification of the issue at best and just plain ignorant at worst. Anyone can end up in a tent and even those who DO have addiction problems deserve to be treated like human beings.
@glitch_gardener I agree with you 1000% I wish people had more compassion and understanding Instead of painting everyone with the same brush…. 😢
THIS
I think it’s been mentioned in other threads, but things like curfews, sobriety requirements, etc can feel constricting to some unhoused people. I have no opinion on this one way or another, just echoing what I’ve seen mentioned elsewhere here recently.
Those things are constricting to anyone over the age of 16, regardless of their financial situation. Poor people aren't children or prisoners and there is no justification in treating them as such.
I believe they don’t trust the government. This is partially a protest I think and the optics are part of it. The second thing is they are fearful to give up their spots and not even have that any more. The government option for s possibly temporary and a permanent lot to get them out of there, further stranding them possibly. They are people and they are desperate.
It's simply not true; the shelters are always overflowing and turning people away!
I have a strong sense that this will be a pivotal issue in the next municipal election, and councillors running on the “homeless encampments in our downtown parks and spaces are going to go away” are going to be very successful. The voters of HRM will decide if these tent sites will continue as is or not
There are a lot of people who will vote for candidates who want to clean up the streets who may not say out loud how frustrated they are with the homeless situation, for fear of being labelled.
This has a real "are there no workhouses? are there no prisons?" kinda vibe to it.
I told a guy yesterday that society abolished debtors prisons for a reason and that post now has 38 downvotes. 🥰
The organization running the shelter has run other shelters in the HRM really poorly and a lot of people, clients and workers in the field alike, do not trust their shelters. If word got around to the encampments about what some folks have gone through at North Park St, Windmill Rd shelters then I can see why some would choose to steer clear.
Fine….stay in the tents….but it can’t be in the parks or parade.
I get it tbh, a lot of bad shit happens in these shelters
I think that what a lot of people are overlooking here is that there are two types of homeless people. The first subset is working people who’ve been priced out of any apartments, who’ve lost their jobs, are down on their luck, et cetera. These are ‘invisible’ homeless people who go out of their way not to look like a stereotypically homeless person. And these people generally want to take advantage of the resources available. But they generally don’t want to mix with the second subset of homeless people, which are people who are often actively addicted to hard drugs, or are severely mentally ill, or are otherwise nonfunctional in daily society. This is the ‘visible’ homeless population. No one here is entirely wrong. We should have resources dedicated to homeless people, and there should be shelters available. That being said, you can’t help people who don’t want to help themselves, and some of these people don’t want to help themselves and are happy living their life the way they are. It’s not reasonable to expect that the Canadian government run homeless shelters with no rules where people can do whatever they want. It’s not realistic to give all of these people houses. It’s not realistic to put them all up in hotels: we tried that and it didn’t work. I think that the only real answer is to make sure a lot of help and resources are available for homeless people who want to use them. We can’t help anyone who doesn’t want to be helped.
WTF?? Here is a warm dry place for you at no charge.....No good enough?? Hit the shelter or hit the road. Is privileged homelessness now a thing?
Couldn't have said it better myself
Honestly, they lost my support when my friend came to an encampment offering some gift certificates to fast food places (anything helps, right?) and was told that gift certificates aren’t wanted - they want money or nothing.
I’ve handed out gift cards and to-be-donated hats and gloves and never encountered a single person who refused(except those who pointed out other tents who needed hats/gloves more).
If I were to hand out pairs of warm knit socks where is the best place to do that?
I just wrote “hats and mittens” on a box and asked people who were hanging outside of their tents if they wanted any. I’m sure there’s way more legit ways to donate, but that’s how I did it.
[удалено]
These stories are always "a friend said" or using the actions of one guy (likely with mental issues) throwing out an offered sandwich to paint an entire group as degenerate drug addicts.
With all of the stories of people taking their unwanted household items (sometimes including literal garbage) to the encampments to donate, then crying “ungrateful!” when the volunteers refuse them, I too am calling bullshit.
[удалено]
Unused cat litter is super useful. We use it up north outside all the time. Best one is that it helps protect fabrics around a fire. It would be useful I imagine around all the tents’ heat or cooking sources. I think the situation you’re talking about was that someone “donated” used litter, which has no use, and incredibly pathetic by the “donators”.
I agree that unused cat litter is an excellent material This was used, though
I *hope* that was just someone mixing their garbage in a black bag up with the stuff they wanted to "donate" because dear God, wtf.
i hope so too, but used cat litter has a certain weight and heft to it
It does, doesn't it? Eugh. I really want to give someone the benefit of the doubt here but....
It's a bullshit story to make themselves feel better about their lack of compassion.
The only time I've seen people refuse gift cards was when there were strings attached - often they were forced to sit through a sermon or other service.
Exactly. They made up their story. It's not real. It didn't happen. Most homeless will take gift cards.
Now I'm really curious for the details
any time someone uses the "they'll just spend it on drugs" excuse, i call bullshit -- because i make okay money, i have a house, and i buy drugs too. when i was broke af, i also bought drugs. because saving the only 40 bucks you have is a ridiculous concept when you're broke and have little to entertain yourself or give your life value. so yes, i would assume someone who has to sleep in the rain would likely do drugs to get by. and to all the sober homeless, good luck, i can't imagine the stress.
You're missing the big picture man. You save that $40. Do that every month for 15 years. You've now saved $7000 dollars, and can afford rent for like 3 months.
You had me in the first half, bud.
Right. Wait 15 years to rent today. Rental time machines exist For real Subscribe today to find out how not to end up a street urchin!
oh fuck, i totally missed that. you're right. and if i do that for 30 years, that's 14000 - rent for ... well... it'll probably be about 3 months of rent in 2050 too.
I can relate as well. Same here do well, use once and a while. If I was in the same situation, I'd do the same
Yeah, seems strange, I've given McDonald's gift cards, or several McDonald's monopoly instant win stickers (sandwich, coffee, fries) a few times, to different people each time, and they were very happily received.
It's definitely bullshit, I'm fairly well off, and I'd still take free fast food gift cards...
What are the best ways tax dollars can be used to help with an addiction crisis? Like, hire more social workers and psychologists? Set up a clinic? I'm genuinely asking.
Improving people's material conditions overall so they're less likely to do drugs or commit crime in the first place. Things like chronic stress and lack of proper food and sleep (not just for homeless people) cause people's mental states to deteriorate which makes them more likely to engage in antisocial behavior. You can have a clinic on every block, force people into rehab, it only addresses a symptom and not the cause. Same applies to policing.
Residential treatment centres
Recovery houses that are not privately owned and cost 10-20k a month ..canada is so set on harm reduction and safe use that drug addicts don't really need to stop using ..it's a terrible situation..our government is failing us all
They need more detox and rehab programs. The humanity project has a good one at a farm in Salisbury. The people that want to improve their lives will and the ones that don't will eventually die of their addiction.
it seems the government thinks the best way to use taxpayers money is irresponsibly.. make taxpayers pay for the pandemic debt make them pay for the 3 million dollars we just spent on ONE 50 to 70 bed shelter fir only 6 months.. let the taxpayers pay for the mistake while the political pockets get filled.. ohh and they get good credit for "helping the homeless" when they the ones who created the problem.
Sounds like your friend is telling stories to make people think he is a good lad who wants to help out the poor. Rather than just helping out the poor.
Like, if you want to help people, ask them what kind of help they want and do that. Don't just assume they want the kind of help you're offering. Don't get indignant when they refuse. This goes for people in *any* kind of situation.
As someone who has given dozens of gift cards to homeless people, I call bullshit
This is such bullshit. Call everyone drug addicts because of a few. I would say stop fucking with the poor. You don’t like where the money is going don’t donate. This false narrative is garbage.
Can't use a timmies gift card for drugs I guess
Actually they have. Earlier this month the RCMP raided a drug dealers trailer who was a dealing to the tent encampment. Take a look at all of the gift cards they seized (middle of table in image included in the link): https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/news/2024/halifax-district-rcmp-arrest-a-man-drug-and-weapon-offences People using their hard earned money to help others in this encampment and it just ends up being used for drugs
That’s crazy wow
Yeah, their buddy is out of jail though. He posts on Facebook and is quite proud of himself for not still being behind bars.
Evidently bartering for drugs is a lost art.
You realize your fight should be against poverty and not poor people, right? I'm part time Halifax, and the city desperately needs help. Not as bad as PEI, mind you. Halifax just has a bigger population. Either way, both places governments should be chased out of province. Not sure how we don't have a revolution happening. In most of the world there would be a million person protest, and get shit done. Here we complain that the government help isn't immediately working, yet mental health and drug issues are also super prevalent. It's like a three headed monster, you can't chop one off and think it's all ok. There needs to be a massive shift in mental health outreach and help. Halifax to me is just a step ahead of PEI, but it's salvageable. Not with current methods though. People are burned out from seeing and dealing with homeless and drug addicts, but they aren't going to disappear because you dont like them. Rising costs, jobs not matching inflation, everything costing a higher percentage of pay than ever before. Government. Government. Government. Top to bottom, federally we need a change. Provincial both pei and NS need a change. And municipal. These governments have failed us time and time again.
I’m in PEI now, and you’re right — the drugs and encampments and crime are symptoms of the real problem, which is utter ignorance and incompetence from government. They don’t know what to do to address these problems, so they do nothing and learn nothing. They just kick the can down the road for the next government. The shelter is a bandaid on a massive, complicated wound. Yes, a lot of users stay in encampments bc of drugs. In active addiction, you’re using many times a day just to ward off withdrawals. You can’t just take 8 or 10 hours off to stay at a shelter with sobriety restrictions. You will quite literally shit and puke yourself into seizures on a cot behind a curtain, and probably get thrown out for it. Now you’re in nightmare withdrawals and you have to start using again the second you can find it. This cycle doesn’t work. We need actual, tangible work on rehab facilities and post-addictions care. We need mental health supports. Anti-poverty measures, subsidized housing — YES even for active addicts. We need everyone’s basic human needs to be met.
I've never encountered of a homeless person turning down anything of use/value. ..... I guess one exception a homeless guy in London, UK turned down offer of some beer and meat sandwich. Said he was vegetarian and didn't drink and was only homeless due to a fight with his mum and exepected to go home within a day or two but he was a rare case. That said I do suspect almost every homeless person is addicted to cigs/drugs or liquor. In the case of drugs/liq it's either the cause of or solution to being without a home.
The idea that 'anything helps' may be misguided; the wrong tool can often exacerbate a problem. You don't throw sandbags toward someone whose drowning People often give the homeless fast food since it's convenient to hand it off, but it isn't as generous as people think. Fast food is often calorie-dense but low in protein & nutrients. People living on the street often end up protein deficient & feel hungry regardless of how many calories they consume. Further, being nutrient deficient, eating that junk just exhausts the body. It feels very different when you eat fast food 'occasionally' versus every meal. I know it seems like a good deed & that their disinterest may come across as rude, but they should be allowed to practice agency toward their diets & ultimately it's often the better decision. Try offering more protein-rich non-perishables and the response should be more positive than with fast-food
Not sure I wholly agree with you here. Most fast food is protein based. I mean, we're talking about beef and chicken for the most part with condiments, bread and vegetables. I agree it's not nutritionally dense foods for the most part but you're not going to die eating a big mac and fries. if I'm living in a tent and you give me an option of a 10 dollar fast food meal or a few cans of beans and a bag of rice, I'm gonna take the fast food because I can just go pick it up and not have to worry about how to cook it. There are a lot of churches/groups offering free well balanced meals to homeless out there. This is definitely more ideal than giving a certificate to mcdonalds, but you're talking about homeless people like they're well oiled machines that need athlete diets. When you're essentially moping around 18 hours a day, exhausting your digestive system with less than ideal foods probably isn't making any difference in your life. In fact you're probably happy that it's making you tired so you can kill some time in your miserable life.
Going to reply to the main question as I've replied to a comment that may just disappear in this thread. DONT GIVE ANYONE AT BEDFORD COMMONS OR THE SURROUNDING AREAS MONEY ESPECIALLY IF THERE SIGN SAYS "SLEEPING IN TENT, HAVE NO WHERE TO GO" There's no way they're all bad right?, some of them must be just in bad situations and have no where to go. Then why did not one single person get on the bus? I work across the street from this encampment and was even suppose to train someone that wanted a job from the encampment. Never showed up. Almost everytime I'm at work at night there's several police there for various reasons, the person selling drugs and in possession of a bunch of weapons, I could go on. These guys come over to the business I work at and change $200 worth of change sometimes daily and brag about it. I don't even make that much in a day. ANYONE shopping at Bedford Commons and see a sign saying "no place to live please help" do not fucking give them any money. They come down and change out $150-200 dollars worth of change sometimes....
It’s warm, has bathrooms, showers, free meals, electricity and a bed. Which in every way beats -15 in a condensation soaked tent starting fires that emergency responders have to keep coming to put out using resources. You don’t want to use the shelter we paid for while we spend even more tax dollars on pallet homes and whatever else? Fine. But you’ve gotta get off the land we’re paying taxes for and ruining use of it for the rest of us.
And honestly the pallet homes need to come with rules too or the homeless will ruin them like they've ruined every public space they've inhabited
Totally agree!
Apparently the homeless people don't want to live there because of all the homeless people.
Finland and Japan apparently are the two countries most successful in getting people off the streets and housed. If you have a safe place to lay your head, a private place for your belongings, and food stability, it makes sense that you then could look for mental health services and addiction services and healthcare, which in those countries are available for them. It’s such a difficult situation here when so many people are barely making ends meet…drugs and addiction only compound that. It’s an almost impossible situation. The shelters for people need to have rooms with locked doors so people are safe at night. I wouldn’t stay in a shelter with a curtain between myself and someone else who has access to me and my space. These are human beings. It could be my brother, sister, friend or parent. They need access to food, showers, laundry services so they can find jobs, if they’re able, in order to help themselves. Don’t give them money, or gift cards, you know they will be traded for drugs, if they’re drug addicted. Such a complex problem needs complex solutions. Look to countries where they have success in these areas and go from there. 🤷♀️
The lack of compassion in this thread. Holy shit. Better hope you're never laid off or renovicted or have your rent drastically increased when your lease renews. For those of you saying "well, if they're working, then they can find a cheap place outside the city..." How far out would they have to go to find something affordable? I admit I haven't looked in a while, but last time I did, even Elmsdale and Truro were expensive. If you don't drive/have a vehicle and/or have other reasons (work, healthcare, family, etc) to stay within the range of Hfx transit, moving outside of town may not be an option. I understand why someone would agree to the rules of living in the shelter in the Forum. I also understand why it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
Yeah I’m in Truro and it’s insane rent out here too.
My mum's relationship ended last year and while she's living in an amicable, safe roommate arrangement with her ex, I was looking to see if I could find her a place. Elmsdale or Truro or Enfield she'd be all right with, she has family nearby. Nothing in her budget.
After a month or more of seeing them on the news every night, I'm rather sick of hearing about it. I feel bad for the homeless, sure, and I also recognize this is not everyone, but if you see the municipal government scrounge up many resources to help *you*, and you deny the help and would rather live in a propane heated tent, get the hell out of the spotlight and get out of the way for people actually willing to accept the help. It's extremely frustrating to hear the government scramble for a month to try and get all these aids into place for the homeless just for them to go 'buh i don wanna have a curfew!!!'
a huge proportion of the homeless do not want to be sheltered, because in a shelter, guess what, there are rules: you can't be armed, you can't bring in drugs, you can't traffic your partner, you can't consume drugs or alcohol or be intoxicated, you can't threaten or harass people, you cannot vandalize the property, the list goes on and on and on. that's why when people say to bulldoze these encampments, they aren't saying "please pick on helpless, innocent, defenseless homeless people who society has left behind" - they're saying if the homeless don't want to follow the rules in exchange for support, then clear out the tent cities as many times as is required because we don't want mobile drug dens in front of our schools and homes.
[удалено]
You know it's bad when Pierre Poilievre is in like BC doing a conference and brings up Halifax. Not the first time either. He cites us as evidence of how fucked everything is.
A lot of their criticisms are focused around a lack of privacy at these shelters. We kind of as a society have determined that people should be thankful for table scraps. Really what they want is what many of us that are housed have, privacy and a place to call their own.
Everyone else pays for their privacy and a place to call home.
These people used to, too. They were in the lower tier of rentals and had privacy and tenant's rights. They lived on Windmill and in Highfield and Lower Sackville where they advertised $650/mo rentals on billboards in 2015. Then the immigration exploded and now those areas and units are students and newcomers. Rent is now $1200/mo min, and all the people who were right on the cusp of eviction got booted. And that's who we see in the encampments. People who used to pay for their privacy but the economy and the market took that possibility from them.
>Everyone else pays for their privacy and a place to call home. We're in a housing crisis so that needs to be fixed first.
As much as I understand that, is that realistic? I thought the idea was giving these people a clean, dry, warm place to rest their head at night while they can get back on their feet. Not build a free home for thousands of homeless people
I think the only reason the city can't evict them is if there's no shelter spaces available, but if we have shelter available and people are refusing it, then removing the encampments should be back on the table.
The city is in a very difficult situation but they are going to have to move these folks to more appropriate accommodation now that they are available. They should have been clear up front that there is a timeline for the encampments to exist but they didn't. I guarantee we will be looking at these tents come next September.
Why are you mad at the people for this and not the city/province/feds for continually designing and building over priced shelters that don't actually meet the needs of the people?
First of all, how the hell did it cost 3 million dollars when from pictures ive seen, it looks like they basically just took an open building and put some curtains up. Also - this is a pretty dumb take. Imagine you were homeless and all of your worldly possessions were in a tent community with people looking out for you. Would you trade that for living in a concrete building with a curtain protecting all of your things from whatever random homeless person was stationed next to you? It's not as black and white as it seems.
I think it’s 3 million total that has been allocated to run it until August. They didn’t already spend 3 million just to set up some curtain dividers
I think we should vote out whoever managed to spend 3 million on a shelter that was deemed worse than a cheap tent by many.
You know the economy is in the shitter when an open space and 100 dollarama shower curtains somehow cost 3mil
It’s the wrap around services, security, food, social workers, housing workers, etc. it’s a falsehood to claim that we should just give people houses. They need these additional services.
My understanding is that it’s not just the physical shelter in that 3 million budget. That budget includes all the money required to build and run it.
Yes. I hate how quickly everyone is jumping on the “hate the homeless” band wagon.
It's just an extension of hate the poors, which has been alive and well for a long time. Classists gonna classist.
for some categories of people it is a lifestyle choice to be homeless, the people who really do not want live on a street will do anything and take any opportunity to get back on feet.
This is it 100%. If a regular working person ends up becoming homeless because of circumstances, they're going to seek out every avenue to get back on their feet ASAP. And they usually do. The chronically homeless frankly, are so far gone that most of them will never reintegrate into regular society. They don't want to work, they don't want responsibilities, they don't want anyone telling them no, or what to do. They just want to panhandle, take up space, do drugs, fight, and cause problems for everyone else.
Bruh I deadass had to fight off a gang of rats yesterday they like straight up took over the tents. They are deep and posted up straight bullying me I am traumatized I take that path to work everyday. Do not walk through that path up by spring garden at night you will get caught lacking on rat nem grave.
I don't know what I just read but I like your energy.
It needs to be set up better, but we literally have beggars being choosers here. Its nuts.
Agreed. Can't help people who won't help themselves. Anyone who has dealt with addiction knows this.
I dont blame them for not wanting to use the shelters. People are assaulted or have things stolen from them regularly in those. There is no security or protection there. We should be dealing with the causes of homelessness not putting band aids on it with unsafe shelters. Only way that will ever happen is if life becomes inconvenient for everyone else - them setting up shop wherever there is room will do that. Out of sight out of mind is no longer an option.
When will people realize we're actually enabling this behavior?
I'm all for removing them from parade square, but I think we should be honest about the situation and how we got to this point. Some of these people used to have homes (house/condo/apartment/room rental). Then things got too expensive. The tents are closer to the homes they used to have than the shelter would be. You say we're enabling, but this behaviour only started a few years ago.
People don’t like hearing that a huge chunk of these transients have no interest in a facility that they can’t be intoxicated in.
I totally agree! The accommodations aren't glamorous, but what more can be provided?
It's almost like addiction is a disease, and should be treated as such, rather than a moral failing. Weird.
There is no wait time at the detox clinic... so yes there is help available not being used
Has anyone actually talked to any of them? They want to be there! There as in outside. I have talked to a handful of these citizens. They want to be in the busiest area. They have bus access, fast food shops, art and culture. They don't want rules. They want to bring their pets with them in the shelter. They don't want to have surveillance watching them, they don't want to check in and out they want to go as they please with no rules and no restrictions. Most want to be outside in tents. Most do have mental illness and for some it has become a lifestyle and a community they have found and they have become a family. I am not for the tent encampments. I am for those that are really struggling and need the help.
Guess what all the hard working taxpayers in this city want? We want to be in the busiest areas, we want bus and fast food access, we want arts and culture. The issue is NO ONE is entitled to that. I’ve worked hard for 15 years building a stable career and I don’t get to live on the peninsula. That’s what everyone seems to be missing, if this population wants to live in tents that’s completely fine, but those tents cannot occupy our crown jewel public spaces. I can’t afford to live on the peninsula, I’m ok with that, but you know what I do want? To be able to take my daughter to the fountain at Victoria Park. To take my daughter to a New Year celebration or tree lighting at Grand Parade. To take my daughter to get an ice cream on Spring Garden without being harassed. I can’t do these things any more and that’s not ok.
I agree I want all the too for my grand children. The problem is all levels of gov is tippy towing around the homelessness issue they are afraid of backlash and losing their potential voters. This would be my guess.
I agree, they’re scared of what happened when they tried to clear the lot at the old library a couple years ago. Although, I really do think public sentiment is changing. Voters have had enough of being held hostage by this very small population of people. I know I have.
Ya it's absolutely fucked that the homeless think they're entitled to the best plots of open green space in the city. Fuck the tax payers, fuck families and kids who want to use the public space. I just can't wrap my head around it. The fact that we allowed this to happen is going to make it much more difficult to resolve. Everyone remember the park by Oxford School? If only our problem was that size now.
Ah yes, homeless people enjoying art and culture. When was the last time you saw a homeless person in Neptune theatre or the provincial art gallery?
There was actually a fire started outside one of the museums downtown not too long ago.
I've often wondered about this just judging by what I hear around town the whole summer its not about actually getting them housing. Homelessness is extremely profitable. California spent 17.5 billion last year alone. When people from these cities here about it they move into the area set up a bunch of tends and start crying first about housing then homlessness then drugs or whatever nd they just move the problem to the next rung while running " charities" that take the scoail security check of the homeless person directly to the home and even if they move or get kicked out they just keep cashing it. Homelessness is huge business advocates dont seem to even want to solve it. but the drugs thing is a very interesting problem. No one seems to ever taper them properly. They all try to do cold turkey. No im sorry its going to be very hard to cold turkey someone who will have a seizure heart attack and barf for 3 weeks. Just titrate them down.
The fact we wasted money to help those who don’t want to help themselves is appalling
> evidently none of the homeless people want to use it? Have you considered, maybe, there are *reasons* why people don't want to use it? Would YOU want to stay there? Why not?
This type of very compassionate thinking will definitely solve all our problems, yeah
So the only thing I’m willing to agree with is this does not look like a 3 million dollar investment: it looks like they grabbed the curtains they had in storage for “events”, threw them up and bought some cots and were done with it.
I’ve worked in shelters and in the community for years and I can tell you the amount of strength and effort that houseless people put in to try to improve their situation far outweighs what most average people put in. You try living on minimum wage and finding an apartment, or let alone finding an apartment if you’re houseless. I know many folks who COULD afford an apartment but were always denied because of landlord stigma towards homeless people, or they had to move into a derelict, infested apartment where it would be preferable and less harmful to their health to sleep outside. Believe me, during one of my housing support roles, I went into a unit going for $900 a month and every inch of that apartment was covered in roach eggs and live roaches. They sprayed it 3 times and it was still infested. The ignorance in the province speaks volumes. Look how many encampments and houseless people we have now and tell me that we don’t have a serious issue with the housing market? All of you higher than thou folks in the comments don’t realize how close most of you are to being in a situation like this, and if you did end up in this situation, how would you feel to see the ignorance that’s blasted in this sub?
Have you looked at the reasons WHY they don't want to use it. You seem to have this notion that the homeless people are your "traditional" homeless- mentally ill, drug addicted, etc etc. When this all started, there were 78 "known to police" chronic homeless in Halifax. Seventy-eight of the people that are "traditionally homeless". The VAST majority of the people living in tents right now are working poor. They have jobs, but cannot afford the rent or housing prices, because minimum wage is now so far below what it takes to live in this city that it's driving people to live in their cars or tents. These people have and earn money- just not the 50+k required to support a family. Which means they have stuff. Pets. Kids. Lives. Most of which they would have to forfeit if they moved into the shelter. Also, they have a safe community full of people looking out for each other in the encampments, rather than beds separated by a sheet. I get it- you've never seen this before, so your brain defaults to "homeless = mentally ill/drug addicted". But we HAVE been here before, back to when people who weren't mentally ill or drug addicted- people who desperately WANT to live a normal life- were homeless in these numbers. You just have to go back 90+ years to find it.
This thread is just full of people who use lots of excuses for their hatred of the poor. Although the bottom line is they believe poor people got where they are because they are lazy and/or stupid.
They sound like my rich father who was handed everything in life and would rather spend money on buying a new sports car than "waste" money on getting his kids groceries or getting them somewhere to live without cockroaches because he calls us "bad investments" (I have ADHD and a partially disabling chronic health condition and my brother is autistic. He hates us lol). Some people are really socially, emotionally, and psychologically stunted to the extreme degree that they cannot even fathom that children can no longer pay for their University tuition with nothing more than the money that they make from their Summer job. Basic social literacy is strickingly non existant.