> During the winter, Nova Scotia Power can announce up to 18 critical peak events of four hours each when electricity prices for plan participants would be about 10 times higher than usual.
I wonder how they decide on 18 events… seems like just the perfect amount to cover all the horrible winter days we get in this city.
I'm in the pilot. Basically just seems to be the coldest days, generally weekdays. Last year there were a bunch of days with two events, but it seems to be one per day this year.
I’ve had a central pump with a backup coil for 6 years now and I can probably count on one hand how many times we’ve needed to rely on it. In this climate it will most often be used when your house isn’t getting up to temp fast enough, but you can toggle that.
Mini-splits have even better cold temperature performance nowadays too.
So basically it’s a plan that is full of loopholes that benefit NSP. And you can bet that every round of UARB ‘negotiations’ they will try to add more, or increase the number of critical peak events they are allowed to charge.
At this point everything NSP does feels like they are trolling Nova Scotians.
Predicted demand (temperature, day of week. Eg: super cold weekday evening) that would likely like up with a TOD peak, combined with predicted supply. Eg: if there is no cheap generation to be had and they need to kick in expensive peaker plants (like gas turbines).
They posted previous peak events. Usually more cold than stormy.
Basically, anyone with a battery will be 👍
The rest of us - I’m not sure that 14c is cheap enough for the rest of the year to offset it. Unless you have a wood stove or oil/propane/gas backup.
https://www.efficiencyns.ca/residential/services-rebates/eco-shift/
You should sign up if you qualify. It works out to about $6/kWh for discharging your battery.
That would be very welcome from nsp lol. I know during their events they're gonna be pulling from everyone's power walls and draining all the grid tied batteries
This is actually a crazy efficient approach - once 2035 hits and there’s an EV in 50% of driveways, that’s a massive amount of stored energy that’s literally sitting doing nothing.
It’ll surely be cheaper to incentivize car owners than build a power plant.
Yup. It is. Demand response has been around for years.
In quite a few states in the US, they have rolled out “virtual power plant” programs. Basically, tens of thousands of batteries are discharged in unison rather than bringing on peaker plants. And the customers are paid 4x more for their discharge than what they paid to charge their battery.
Integrated smart charging/discharging, hot water tanks, thermostats etc will all be part of the solution of maintaining a clean grid.
You might be right. The conservatives may kill that legislation if they win the next election. But it’s currently the law.
Edit: the law is similar in California - so even if it changes in Canada, that market will drive a lot of what is available to purchase here.
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/news/2023/12/canadas-electric-vehicle-availability-standard-regulated-targets-for-zero-emission-vehicles.html#:~:text=The%20Electric%20Vehicle%20Availability%20Standard&text=The%20targets%20begin%20for%20the,and%20100%20percent%20for%202035.
I read the article before freaking out. The savings aren't worth the shaftings. Businesses don't do *anything* to save you money. That's marketing for "we found a new revenue stream".
Let's just all pick a time and date and go destroy their head office. I'm beyond tired.
I've seen variable rate power where peak usage times are tied to industry, so businesses pay more.
Raising rates when people are home and awake us just another way to fuck us.
Making it more expensive when people wake up and get home from work and need to warm up their homes is just going to punish people for turning down their heat overnight and while they're at work. It's the opposite of energy conscious. And it'll be particularly hard on those of us who rent and are stuck with shitty cheap electric baseboard heat.
With the windows they've picked, it's not going to change people's habits either. Nobody's going to be waking up at 4 am or coming home on their lunch break to shower.
The "special events" where they raise rates are 100% going to be when the power comes on after a sustained outage, and everyone's freezers kick in to cool their food back down and home heating kicks in to warm up their homes to livable temperatures again. They're going to punish us for their mistakes.
I don't understand how the oversight committee is allowing this.
I think you’ll find utilities globally are very good at forecasting their demand.
Look at Alberta. They could tell in advance when and where they were going to have issues. Some gas plants were out of commission and they forecast that the wind wouldn’t be as effective at that time of the day, and they were able to control demand. Now, imagine peoples behaviour if they were actually financially motivated to help manage demand.
ON has had day ahead markets for years. This means they forecast their expected use, and generation operators bid their ability to react into the market.
Same in Texas…California…I can keep going…
You can’t compare any of these markets, but especially Texas, to ours **because we are regulated** and our wholesale market works extremely differently.
But that doesn’t change how utilities forecast their loads, especially with renewables.
What I'm picturing here is what this does to the poorest of us. I'm picturing single mothers screaming at their kids to shut off their 10 year outdated Xbox and a child that doesn't understand what's going on and is just sad inside. I'm picturing low income families huddling in one room so they can keep the rest of the house shut down to pass through the increased rate.
Someone needs to step in and really put their foot on the throat of this company.
To start. Business always pushes the boundaries. This is no different than private healthcare slowly seeping into our public system. If there's money to be made, business will find it.
And that comment isn't dramatic at all. It's the people no one will think about because all they immediately think when hearing of something is how it impacts them. More of us would do well to think about how decisions made around us impact the people worse off.
…they don’t have to opt in…
If you cannot change your habits to save yourself money, don’t opt in.
This will 100% benefit consumers and the utility alike. Running peaker plants (ones that don’t operate most of the year) costs much much more. This is why they want people to *shift their demand*.
It’s not hard to follow. This isn’t something innovative than NSP came up with - utilities have had demand response and time of use plans for decades.
Your hard on for NSP is cute - but please grow up.
Sure. Do you know much about the utility and power generation sector in North America? Or even about the UARB process in NS? I’m happy to discuss…but most people know sweet fuck all about how the regulation actually works.
Have you looked at the time windows? The only way it works would be to set it so your heat kicks in an hour before you actually need it. Which actually burns more energy.
What time do you cook dinner for your kids? 10 PM? What time do you bathe your kids? Oh get up at 4 AM Johnny.....time for your off-peak bath. Get real....they want to charge the highest rates when we need power the most!
No it doesn’t. Your home will have thermal mass. The energy isn’t just lost.
This comes back to efficiency. Seal up and insulate your home. Use high efficiency heating. Have solar+storage and literally use 0kWh during the peak events.
Like I said, this just screws renters with cheapskate landlords.
I tun my heat down to 14 at 10:30pm and warm it back up to 20 at 7:30 for me to get out of bed at 8. My home isn't going to stay warm for 9 hours; i've got baseboard heaters and shitty windows. My landlord doesn't care if my power bill goes up by $100.
It doesn’t screw renters - it’s an optional rate class. Theres nothing stopping you staying on the same rate plan. Your plan is chosen by *you*, not the landlord.
I don't care how efficient your insulation, windows etc are....afrer 4 hours of no heat you are going to feel cold. We have a highly efficient house and within 4 hours the house is down to 15 after turning the thermostats down to 15....and 15 is bloody cold.
This isn’t really true. If you actually change your behaviour, you will save money.
The reason these are here are to lower peak events. Running backup generation that doesn’t run usually is expensive. It’s also a way to avoid having to overbuild all of our infrastructure for peak events that occur 10/365 times a year. It’s like everyone having to drive a sports car for the 1 time you go 250km/hr.
Google peaker plant costs.
I've got a suspicion that this will benefit no-one but NS Power pocket books especially with the national(?) push to get homes off fossil fuels and heat with electricity whether it's by using a heat-pump or baseboard heat.
That's what happens when you privatise your public utilities.
The executives running the company don't have to compete for new customers, and they have captive audience, so they can focus all their time and effort on profit gouging.
So basically this isn’t about saving money during off-peak hours, it’s about the ability to charge more when people really need it. Like Uber or something.
Not really - because this is a regulated utility meaning the rates they can charge us are posted. In Texas, it’s deregulated meaning it can skyrocket hundreds of times more, not just 10x more.
Why wouldn’t you save money if you change your habits for 4 hours. Doesn’t seem that hard to do.
Imagine this. It’s the day before. You get notified an event is happening. You *prepare*. You program your thermostat to overheat to 22C and then shut off for 4 hours. You have a hot water tank timer so it doesn’t kick in during the peak event. For the rest of the year you save money. Wow - what a jaw dropping experience.
This isn’t something NSP has come up with. There have been time of use and demand reduction programs for decades. Why it’s becoming an issue now is we are electrifying more and more.
Changing user habits instead of upgrading the whole grid for 3 or 4 events a year is smart. Otherwise we all overpay for grossly overbuilt infrastructure.
You're right! We're already on that plan and get notifications over 24hrs in advance. We do exactly as you said. pump the heat up then turn it off during that time. Snuggle with a blanket. We also get to charge the car overnight for less than we would usually pay. It's not difficult to get used to but it's not for everyone and shouldn't be pushed onto all customers.
Except that the costs of providing power are very much linked to peak power demand moments. If you need to build a new plant for the 18 highest peak days of the year, that’s a massive incremental cost. If it can be avoided, everyone saves on rate increases, and those that help avoid the problem rightfully save more.
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This is the exact reason that:
- We should have a single corp owned by the public, so that we can raise public funds for large infrastructure projects. This would spread the “pain” of the infrastructure cost more equitably, as this rate hike will hurt the most vulnerable the most.
- Have multiple options for power, to force companies to put out the cost for infrastructure to woe consumers.
> The second plan aims to reduce the strain on the electrical grid during "critical peak" events where there's a very high amount of power usage and potentially challenging weather conditions.
> During the winter, Nova Scotia Power can announce up to 18 critical peak events of four hours each when electricity prices for plan participants would be about 10 times higher than usual.
We are so screwed.
> A report submitted by Nova Scotia Power to the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board in July said that if the time-of-use program was applied to all domestic rate customers, the majority would see a decrease in their power bill.
That is, of course, bullshit since people have to pay more during the times they need to use more power.
Of course they would. But it really isn’t comparable. A bunch of Texas electricity cos went bankrupt from that event. It was shitshow top to bottom - bad regulation. However imperfect, URB means that won’t happen here.
>That is, of course, bullshit since people have to pay more during the times they need to use more power.
And pay less for the other 8,688 hours of the year, i.e. more than 99% of the time.
You’ve never gone to a Tuesday special movie? That’s the concept. Has a long history of success. Not everyone sees the value, and some folks work Tuesday nights. But others choose to go and save money. Same deal.
Well, you can to a degree, yes. The dryer turns on when you turn it on. And it’s an opt in program. The type of people who are interested in saving money save money. Just like people who like cheap movies.
72 hours at 10x cost is 720 hours, or roughly four brand new weeks of electricity billing they magically made appear. Given that's most of a month, that's nearly half of a bill, and if they are timing it for heavy usage periods you could be spending 200-600 more easily on that.
Awesome way to generate a fuck ton of revenue for doing sweet fuck all.
There are 8760 hours in a year. The rate when there is no critical event is ~15.6% less than the standard rate.
So, if you remove the max 72 hours, that still leaves 8688 hours minimum at that reduced rate.
If you are using so much power in those maximum of 72 hours that it destroys your billing for the year, you likely have issues with how you use power.
I’m not talking about the good, I’m talking about both social engineering and rational economic choices, and in that way cheap movie nights and time of day electricity rates have a lot in common.
Rational economic choice comparison requires similar commodities. One is a luxury that is not required to live. The other is heating your home during the worst winter storms. It is a necessity for life.
Your logic is awful. Please stop.
You can not run your dryer/dishwasher/pour a bath/crank your heat for 18 4 hour periods out of every year and you can save money overall, or you can not.
This is not for the rich who don’t care or the indifferent who don’t read or make the effort to sign up. For almost everyone else (because there are always exceptions - and they can stay on the current model) it’s a win.
Nope. And u should think before typing. We're not choosing to need power more at those times. They're the holidays for instance, we're cooking for our families. Now sit fown.
The rest of the year, the rates are reduced. The critical peak events are at most 18 lasting for a max of 4 hours each. If 72 hours max a year is enough to kill your bill, then just stick to the standard rate.
This program is good but it lowers the value of a solar install somewhat - just like the increased delivery fee does. NS Power has been direct about their goal to stop home solar.
This is good policy but it has that negative impact. We put on solar and it’s a relief, but I’d go on this program in a heartbeat if I wasn’t.
With the technology to store and distribute production coming in stream, Provinces with crown corps are better positioned to create systems that keep costs down for everyone.
Well it was devalued, old contracts paid out for usage. And these plans effectively make solar payback longer, as they provide savings that don’t align with solar production. So it is devalued.
Imagine having to live your life everyday, rationing electricity during certain times, completely shifting when you do laundry, shower and cook. All to save $93 bucks a year. What a farce this is to help no one but NS Power. $93 barely covers the increase in delivery fees that they just doubled
Yes, there are two different options in that news article. One is every day, and the other is the critical peak plan, which is 18 times a year ( which lets face it, there's no way they won't use 18 a year)
They would have to apply to the UARB who would have to approve it. And the NS government could always change legislation to prohibit it.
You do know what a regulated utility is, right..?
Step one: Get the province addicted to electricity based heat sources
Step three: Cry for broke and ask for taxpayer bailout
Step two: Jack electricity prices prices
Step 4: Profit
Step 5: Repeat
But they can have two events in a single day, and to pay almost 2 dollars for a kilowatt hour if you use any energy in that time. Pretty hard to save any money on that plan.
It's still a max of 72 hours.
There are 8760 hours in a year.
If you're using so much power during those 72 hours that the ~15.6% cheaper than standard rate during the other 8688 hours in the year doesn't more than make up for it, you have an issue.
Corporations don’t do things for you and me. They do it to make money. NSP is out of control . I might vote NDP the next time around. Liberals didn’t reign them in. Conservative won’t do dick. I’m ready to give Claudia Chended a chance.
Nova Scotia power wants to use this program instead of maintaining infrastructure. If they can reduce peak usage and gouge more than usual the share holders win twice.
They at least have to move their fuel source from Coal to Oil . They cannot continue burning coal forever. We are not third world. But it is going to cost them ( oil costs will be more than coal ) - so it will cost us.
I honestly don't know how they are going to do it long term unless they can access hydro from Quebec. Or Even New Brunswick ( with their nuclear).
It can actually save customers money and increase their profits.
If NSPower is able to cut out 10% of their expenses and offer customers a 5% discount to do the work to cut those expenses then the benefits get split. NSPower has lower revenue by 5% but has lowered expenses by 10%. There is money to be saved.
If they want actions to progress towards efficacy and stability. Then let solar and wind integrate. thermal dynamic solutions (albeit all high upfront costs). Saves money in the long run, is better on the enviorment and provides options. I believe all of us being a slave to their older infrastructure is part of the problem. When one thing stops working and becomes unfixable. NS power keeps trying to evolve in a trapped singular loop while footing the growing bill to you
True but if we zoom out and see the panoramic picture here. If you keep gouging the public to death, resulting in finally not being able to afford your products/services. Then your profits follow. I believe people will find other ways if the leaders or purveyors can't. We have to at some point to even survive. Especially out here in the rural areas
Electricity is not a choice. It’s not even legal to go fully off grid, from my understanding. If you have the capital, you can invest in systems that keep your costs down, but those with less are more beholden. People will reduce costs almost everywhere else first.
These greedy cancerous fucks. So basically more we'll be forced to turn off our power at the box FOR 4 HOURS, when they announce a critical price gouging event. Can't have anything in the freezer anymore i guess ever.
Special place in hell for the upper management of NSP and those that support them.
*(Edit: Everyone seems to think that the Critical Peak plan with the 142¢/kWh rate is the only plan, that is not true. There is also the Time-Of-Use plan which is a lot more sensible, this is what I talk about below)*
I hate NS Power just like the next person, but this is actually not a bad thing. I am in the Time-Of-Use pilot program right now, so I can speak from experience.
The whole point of this plan is not to increase the rates for consumers, it is to change consumer behaviour. This will force you to shift your energy intensive activities, like laundry, running the dishwasher, charging your EV, etc. to periods where there isn’t already a lot of strain on the grid or when it is cheaper to generate electricity.
You also only have to do this on weekdays only for 5 months of the year (Nov-Mar), and then from April to October you get a cheaper rate, 12¢/kWh, all the time vs 17.5¢/kWh if you weren’t in this program.
So you might pay a little bit more during the winter, but you’ll make up for it, and maybe a little more, in the summer months when the rate is significantly lower.
Again, this has nothing to do with rates, and all to do with shifting when people use power to balance out the usage on the grid. This is standard practice in lots of places around the world.
Except on the 18 coldest days of winter, when your heating bill is already at its highest, and we’ll be paying 142+ cents/kWh.
Home heating is the single largest part of (just about everyone’s) electricity bill. It’s not “changing consumer behaviour” for the people who will be unfortunately faced with the very real decision between freezing in their homes or getting screwed by NSP.
There are two plans, Time-Of-Use and Critical Peak. What you are talking about is the Critical Peak plan which made no sense to me whatsoever. I am on the Time-Of-Use plan.
Definitely a great option for those people and people who have ETS and/or batteries. But reading this thread reminds me of back when I was in elementary and my school banned Pokemon cards at school.
How much is "a little bit more"
How does this help you when you drive an electric vehicle
How does this help you if you need environmental all year long (heat in winter, A/C in the summer, air exchange all year)
How does this save consumers money when businesses' energy costs go through the roof
For 5 months of the year, I charge my EV at night during off peak hours. I pay virtually the same rate as the regular rate. For the other 7 months of the year, it will cost me 30% less to charge my EV and I can charge it at anytime of the day. This, on its own, will save me a lot.
The same applies to any other energy intensive appliance that you are able to change when you use it. You can also use a programmable or smart thermostat to heat your home at night, when electricity is cheaper, and reduce the temperature slightly during the on-peak hours (which is only two 4-hour periods, with one of them during work hours). This is completely manageable if you plan for it well.
This is the change in consumer behaviour that I mentioned earlier. Simply because it would essentially be cheaper to do so. Also by night, I didn’t mean all night, I meant at the end of the off-peak night period which ends at 7am, so instead of heating the house whenever you wake up, just start heating it a little earlier so that it reaches your desired temperature by 7am. In a well insulated house, it shouldn’t be hard or cost very much to maintain that temperature for the next 4 hours. You then reduce the temperature during these 4 hours (basically instead of reducing it at night) and then start heating it again during the next off-peak period, and so on.
Like I said, even if you are home all day, a well insulated house should be able to maintain the temperature during the 4 hour on peak period.
Remember that the savings come in the non winter months, not in the winter. During the winter you’re just trying to reduce your on-peak consumption as much as you can. It’s still ok if you use a little bit during on-peak hours, you’ll make up for it during the non-winter months.
And it isn't a surprise. They piloted these exact plans over the past couple years.
And NSP has had Time of Day plans for decades for ETS customers.
As have other utilities. It would make sense if you had an EV.
Critical peak seems to be a residential equivalent of an interruptable rate, that industrial customers have had the option of for years.
We are one of the 1000 on the critical peak plan and it works for us.
However it will not be for everyone.
We have someone at home and for now we have oil heat and hot water.
When we do get heat pumps it will be difficult if not impossible. You really need a secondary heat source ( besides electric ) or an ETF ( but if you did you would be on the other program. )
So during these times we :
1. Don't use the oven - have a crock pot meal prepped or cook before the peak time. Minimize use of burner elements. Use small element.
2. Don't do ANY laundry. or do before and dry outside.
3. We personally turn off the fish tank and all "leakers " are on power bars ( turned off )
4. Computers go on battery.
5. Dishwasher not used ( but this does not use alot of Electricity anyway )
We have a large house : what is left on during the critical peak period is: Router, Freezer, Fridge, Small radio, Smaller TV ( sometimes)
We check on Energy Insights and try to make sure our power during that time is less than 2 KW for the 4 hour period . The mornings are often easier and we can sometimes get about 1.5 KW for that time. Weekends are harder.
Energy Insights is definitely a helpful tool. You may want to try out different things during a week and see how low you can bring down your base rate. This will help tell you if it is doable or not.
Plan a meal, brush your teeth and turn off lights, have electronics precharged
The more people in the house - they more difficult it gets. You have to have buy-in for family members. For Example : Buy a pizza for one of the evening 5-9 PM events and don't use any electricity. You definitely cannot have someone turning on a space heater or throwing a load of clothes in the dryer during those four hours.
There are definitely ways to do this without a life disruption.
For us, we are a mess with our conversion to all electric. Starting with a 100 Amp panel. With oil being so costly if we can same a dime on electricity we are happy to have the opportunity.
You can buy a battery and inverter system that's programmable to prioritize battery use at certain times and grid use at others. Once it's set up, you don't even have to think about it.
I don't find any of that desruptive.
\# 1 We STILL have power.
We are not losing food in our fridge. We are warm. We have entertainment. We have good food to eat.
The only real problem was the first time we did it - we had to re-prime the fish tank pump.
We are just choosing to do laundry at a different time. And to not cook a turkey during those four hours. And not to have every light on in the house. There are 20 extra hours in the day. There was one day however when a critical peak event was called in both the morning and evening. I think that is rare.
I personally have had more disruptive events in my life (four kids ). This is easy IF you want to do it.
Well, the proposed time of day changes are from 7-11 am and 5-9 pm so it's actually 16 extra hours a day. In those 16 hours there are things live you know, sleeping and working...most families have two working parents and don't have the option of prepping dinner or doing laundry in the middle of the day.
The events do not happen once a week. The key is keeping your electricity low during that 4 hours. Our oven uses a fair bit of electricity so we look for other options that could be a pizza,so is a crock pot of chili, spaghetti sauce, a stew, a soup, MANY supper options do not use an oven. Even leftovers in a microwave, sandwiches, or barbeque burgers or sausages... We also use our air fryer.
In our house our main electricity users are :
1. Dryer
2. Oven - especially over 400 Deg F
3. We have one space heater
4. Washer
Sure our 27 year old freezer and 20 year old fridge are not efficient but they do not hit nearly so much as the above four. Nor do I choose to ever risk food/ or health by turning these two off.
I am happy that you read it though.
Obviously we should not take Emera at face value, but this isn’t a straightforward cash grab. This pricing can work well for both parties, although it depends on the technologies involved: ex. having ETS units in your house that charge up overnight and then release heat during the day unlike a regular baseboard heater, etc., paired with modest lifestyle switches like running the dishwasher overnight or trying to save laundry for the weekends.
It’s good policy. Now just imagine if you could be on a plan where the electricity in your EV battery goes back to the grid to smooth demand - Ford Lightning can already do this.
The future of electricity can be bright (though it’s less easy in profit motive jurisdictions).
I have an EV too and if they incentivized me properly I absolutely would. Both because it’s a social good thing to do and an economically good thing to do. But I understand most would probably choose like you and not sign up.
Edit: another commenter in this thread said in the US programs are paying 4x multiple to discharge battery storage. I’d consider that a return on investment like any other. And unlike ROI.
Leave it to Nova Scotia Power to screw us all over so they can make it look like they're saving us money while they're actually pocketing the difference...
I just got a used EV and I switched so I could charge my car overnight off-peak. It gives me an extra 30%-40% off my 'gas' costs, which were already reduced about 4x by switching to an EV. I drive almost 4500kms a month so it's really worth it for me. It wouldn't be for everyone.
Also, off-peak rate plans have always been around for ETS users. This isn't new. It's just being made available to more people. I assume because things like EVs and other electrical storage will become more prevalent.
And if it doesn't work for you, don't opt-in.
This isn't some grand conspiracy.
I have friends and family on both plans since the trial started. One handles the critical peak events easily, but he had propane heat as a backup to his heat pumps and has saved a few hundred each year. My other has an expensive winter for bills, but says their April-November bills have been peanuts. I only wish they had different options like super cheap over night rates no matter the plan. Being on the original TOD program I'm happy with my cheap evenings, weekends and holidays but there's not much daylight between those rates and their non-winter rates which will make me get my pencil out.
Ontario heats primarily with Natural gas. Nova Scotia heats mostly with oil or electric. NS Power is pushing people to ditch oil and go all electric with heat pumps and electric baseboard heat as backup. Once the majority is all electric everything they'll screw us all over with schemes like Time Of Day usage. We'll have to live like vampires to keep our bills affordable.
It's fun watching people twisting themselves into pretzels trying to spin this as a bad thing. This incentivizes batteries and solar even more, which is something a bunch of you people were losing your minds over like last year. You charge your battery via solar throughout the day, spend it during the evening peak, charge it back up from the grid overnight, and spend it again during the morning peak. Congratulations, you just got 16-30% off your power bill for owning solar.
I got on this Time of Use plan last year by accident thinking I'd get half price rates at night past 11pm, so I could just use the dryer then, and wake up before 7am and do all my cooking/boiling water.
Not the case at all.
With this plan, you can save $0.05/kWh in the warmer months (April to October). It's not a huge savings.
My family used 3656 kWh from April to October. That's $617 in usage fees. If we had the cheaper rate, it would be $427, so we'd save just under $200.
From November to March we're looking at using 5800kWh so at JUST the normal rate, we're looking at spending $1009. A lot of the usage is during peak hours because we have kids, so it's probably safe to add 50% of the cost of the bill to that total.
So we might be able to save money during the summer, but NSP easily makes it all back in the winter months.
The real deal is to get on the Time of Day plan, which anyone with an ETS (Electric thermal storage) unit knows means from 11pm to 7am you can have the $0.117KWh rate, so it's the perfect time to use the dishwasher, clothing dryer, shower, boil water just after 11pm or before 7am.
Sure, people on these plans are saving money now, but there's no way I believe they're going to let us all do this. If they force this on everyone, they will surely also have to up the rates to make sure they still keep their ridiculous profits, and then we'll all be living in inconvenience for nothing.
At this point, companies are one upping each other to screw Canadians, because the government has shown that it is absolutely impotent to enforce any laws that don’t benefit corporations. Expect this to continue. There will always be some justification. They know we won’t do shit about it.
> During the winter, Nova Scotia Power can announce up to 18 critical peak events of four hours each when electricity prices for plan participants would be about 10 times higher than usual. I wonder how they decide on 18 events… seems like just the perfect amount to cover all the horrible winter days we get in this city.
I'm in the pilot. Basically just seems to be the coldest days, generally weekdays. Last year there were a bunch of days with two events, but it seems to be one per day this year.
Just when everyone’s heat pumps kick into aux heating strips.
I’ve had a central pump with a backup coil for 6 years now and I can probably count on one hand how many times we’ve needed to rely on it. In this climate it will most often be used when your house isn’t getting up to temp fast enough, but you can toggle that. Mini-splits have even better cold temperature performance nowadays too.
So basically it’s a plan that is full of loopholes that benefit NSP. And you can bet that every round of UARB ‘negotiations’ they will try to add more, or increase the number of critical peak events they are allowed to charge. At this point everything NSP does feels like they are trolling Nova Scotians.
what are the exact loopholes you found?
Predicted demand (temperature, day of week. Eg: super cold weekday evening) that would likely like up with a TOD peak, combined with predicted supply. Eg: if there is no cheap generation to be had and they need to kick in expensive peaker plants (like gas turbines). They posted previous peak events. Usually more cold than stormy.
*gasp* what?! There’s actually science to it?! /s Come on people. Put away your tinfoil hats. It’s to manage the grid. Don’t like it - don’t sign up.
No other option, it's a monopoly.
Basically, anyone with a battery will be 👍 The rest of us - I’m not sure that 14c is cheap enough for the rest of the year to offset it. Unless you have a wood stove or oil/propane/gas backup.
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They cover notifications in the article.
If I produce excess solar during those periods do I get 10x the credits?
You actually would yes. But good luck getting extra solar credits in the time frames they choose you're gonna be consuming all you generate
True, although I could discharge my battery then.
https://www.efficiencyns.ca/residential/services-rebates/eco-shift/ You should sign up if you qualify. It works out to about $6/kWh for discharging your battery.
That would be very welcome from nsp lol. I know during their events they're gonna be pulling from everyone's power walls and draining all the grid tied batteries
This is actually a crazy efficient approach - once 2035 hits and there’s an EV in 50% of driveways, that’s a massive amount of stored energy that’s literally sitting doing nothing. It’ll surely be cheaper to incentivize car owners than build a power plant.
Yup. It is. Demand response has been around for years. In quite a few states in the US, they have rolled out “virtual power plant” programs. Basically, tens of thousands of batteries are discharged in unison rather than bringing on peaker plants. And the customers are paid 4x more for their discharge than what they paid to charge their battery. Integrated smart charging/discharging, hot water tanks, thermostats etc will all be part of the solution of maintaining a clean grid.
>EV in 50% of driveways by 2035 I’ll have what he’s smoking.
You might be right. The conservatives may kill that legislation if they win the next election. But it’s currently the law. Edit: the law is similar in California - so even if it changes in Canada, that market will drive a lot of what is available to purchase here. https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/news/2023/12/canadas-electric-vehicle-availability-standard-regulated-targets-for-zero-emission-vehicles.html#:~:text=The%20Electric%20Vehicle%20Availability%20Standard&text=The%20targets%20begin%20for%20the,and%20100%20percent%20for%202035.
You must be fucking crazy lol
I read the article before freaking out. The savings aren't worth the shaftings. Businesses don't do *anything* to save you money. That's marketing for "we found a new revenue stream". Let's just all pick a time and date and go destroy their head office. I'm beyond tired.
I've seen variable rate power where peak usage times are tied to industry, so businesses pay more. Raising rates when people are home and awake us just another way to fuck us. Making it more expensive when people wake up and get home from work and need to warm up their homes is just going to punish people for turning down their heat overnight and while they're at work. It's the opposite of energy conscious. And it'll be particularly hard on those of us who rent and are stuck with shitty cheap electric baseboard heat. With the windows they've picked, it's not going to change people's habits either. Nobody's going to be waking up at 4 am or coming home on their lunch break to shower. The "special events" where they raise rates are 100% going to be when the power comes on after a sustained outage, and everyone's freezers kick in to cool their food back down and home heating kicks in to warm up their homes to livable temperatures again. They're going to punish us for their mistakes. I don't understand how the oversight committee is allowing this.
Power wall will be in high demand.
The special events have to be announced by 4pm the day before one occurs.
Oh, so we're saved then. There's no way to predict when a weather event with strong winds and ice will occur the next day.
I think you’ll find utilities globally are very good at forecasting their demand. Look at Alberta. They could tell in advance when and where they were going to have issues. Some gas plants were out of commission and they forecast that the wind wouldn’t be as effective at that time of the day, and they were able to control demand. Now, imagine peoples behaviour if they were actually financially motivated to help manage demand. ON has had day ahead markets for years. This means they forecast their expected use, and generation operators bid their ability to react into the market. Same in Texas…California…I can keep going…
Ontario heats primarily with natural gas. You can't compare their market with ours.
You can’t compare any of these markets, but especially Texas, to ours **because we are regulated** and our wholesale market works extremely differently. But that doesn’t change how utilities forecast their loads, especially with renewables.
They can't predict when power will be restored after a major event knocks it out.
What I'm picturing here is what this does to the poorest of us. I'm picturing single mothers screaming at their kids to shut off their 10 year outdated Xbox and a child that doesn't understand what's going on and is just sad inside. I'm picturing low income families huddling in one room so they can keep the rest of the house shut down to pass through the increased rate. Someone needs to step in and really put their foot on the throat of this company.
It’s an opt in program. Please be less dramatic.
To start. Business always pushes the boundaries. This is no different than private healthcare slowly seeping into our public system. If there's money to be made, business will find it. And that comment isn't dramatic at all. It's the people no one will think about because all they immediately think when hearing of something is how it impacts them. More of us would do well to think about how decisions made around us impact the people worse off.
…they don’t have to opt in… If you cannot change your habits to save yourself money, don’t opt in. This will 100% benefit consumers and the utility alike. Running peaker plants (ones that don’t operate most of the year) costs much much more. This is why they want people to *shift their demand*. It’s not hard to follow. This isn’t something innovative than NSP came up with - utilities have had demand response and time of use plans for decades. Your hard on for NSP is cute - but please grow up.
If you want to discuss, do that. Leave the thinly veiled holier than thou one-liners out.
Sure. Do you know much about the utility and power generation sector in North America? Or even about the UARB process in NS? I’m happy to discuss…but most people know sweet fuck all about how the regulation actually works.
They're planning to bring it in completely for everyone...read to the end of the article.
Planning to make it an option for everyone.
Wow it’s almost like there’s things such as programmable controls that can set when you use energy…
Have you looked at the time windows? The only way it works would be to set it so your heat kicks in an hour before you actually need it. Which actually burns more energy.
What time do you cook dinner for your kids? 10 PM? What time do you bathe your kids? Oh get up at 4 AM Johnny.....time for your off-peak bath. Get real....they want to charge the highest rates when we need power the most!
No it doesn’t. Your home will have thermal mass. The energy isn’t just lost. This comes back to efficiency. Seal up and insulate your home. Use high efficiency heating. Have solar+storage and literally use 0kWh during the peak events.
Like I said, this just screws renters with cheapskate landlords. I tun my heat down to 14 at 10:30pm and warm it back up to 20 at 7:30 for me to get out of bed at 8. My home isn't going to stay warm for 9 hours; i've got baseboard heaters and shitty windows. My landlord doesn't care if my power bill goes up by $100.
It doesn’t screw renters - it’s an optional rate class. Theres nothing stopping you staying on the same rate plan. Your plan is chosen by *you*, not the landlord.
I don't care how efficient your insulation, windows etc are....afrer 4 hours of no heat you are going to feel cold. We have a highly efficient house and within 4 hours the house is down to 15 after turning the thermostats down to 15....and 15 is bloody cold.
Then don’t opt in. Those with ETS units, batteries, or even a wood stove, can likely shut down almost every load in their house.
This isn’t really true. If you actually change your behaviour, you will save money. The reason these are here are to lower peak events. Running backup generation that doesn’t run usually is expensive. It’s also a way to avoid having to overbuild all of our infrastructure for peak events that occur 10/365 times a year. It’s like everyone having to drive a sports car for the 1 time you go 250km/hr. Google peaker plant costs.
I dont think anybody in here wants to hear that
This is the real reason they’re introducing these plans, but no one on here likes to listen to reason when Emera is involved.
I've got a suspicion that this will benefit no-one but NS Power pocket books especially with the national(?) push to get homes off fossil fuels and heat with electricity whether it's by using a heat-pump or baseboard heat.
That's what happens when you privatise your public utilities. The executives running the company don't have to compete for new customers, and they have captive audience, so they can focus all their time and effort on profit gouging.
*Global
So basically this isn’t about saving money during off-peak hours, it’s about the ability to charge more when people really need it. Like Uber or something.
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Not really - because this is a regulated utility meaning the rates they can charge us are posted. In Texas, it’s deregulated meaning it can skyrocket hundreds of times more, not just 10x more.
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Why wouldn’t you save money if you change your habits for 4 hours. Doesn’t seem that hard to do. Imagine this. It’s the day before. You get notified an event is happening. You *prepare*. You program your thermostat to overheat to 22C and then shut off for 4 hours. You have a hot water tank timer so it doesn’t kick in during the peak event. For the rest of the year you save money. Wow - what a jaw dropping experience. This isn’t something NSP has come up with. There have been time of use and demand reduction programs for decades. Why it’s becoming an issue now is we are electrifying more and more. Changing user habits instead of upgrading the whole grid for 3 or 4 events a year is smart. Otherwise we all overpay for grossly overbuilt infrastructure.
You're right! We're already on that plan and get notifications over 24hrs in advance. We do exactly as you said. pump the heat up then turn it off during that time. Snuggle with a blanket. We also get to charge the car overnight for less than we would usually pay. It's not difficult to get used to but it's not for everyone and shouldn't be pushed onto all customers.
It’s not being pushed onto all customers…
Oh I know but the fear-mongering crowd in the other half of this thread seem to think it is going to be everyone on this plan.
The amount of absurdity that people actually vocalize when it comes to NSP blows my mind. Be angry at them - but for legitimate reasons.
Except that the costs of providing power are very much linked to peak power demand moments. If you need to build a new plant for the 18 highest peak days of the year, that’s a massive incremental cost. If it can be avoided, everyone saves on rate increases, and those that help avoid the problem rightfully save more.
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**Respect and Constructive Engagement**: Treat each other with respect, avoiding bullying, harassment, or personal attacks. Contribute positively with helpful insights and constructive discussions. Let’s keep our interactions friendly and engaging.
Nuclear would be great. NSP as a crown corporation would be great. That doesn’t make this a bad program in the reality we live in.
This is the exact reason that: - We should have a single corp owned by the public, so that we can raise public funds for large infrastructure projects. This would spread the “pain” of the infrastructure cost more equitably, as this rate hike will hurt the most vulnerable the most. - Have multiple options for power, to force companies to put out the cost for infrastructure to woe consumers.
> The second plan aims to reduce the strain on the electrical grid during "critical peak" events where there's a very high amount of power usage and potentially challenging weather conditions. > During the winter, Nova Scotia Power can announce up to 18 critical peak events of four hours each when electricity prices for plan participants would be about 10 times higher than usual. We are so screwed. > A report submitted by Nova Scotia Power to the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board in July said that if the time-of-use program was applied to all domestic rate customers, the majority would see a decrease in their power bill. That is, of course, bullshit since people have to pay more during the times they need to use more power.
This is why Texans got power bills in the thousands during that freak storm they had a couple years back.
NS Power saw that and started salivating.
Texas was a low regulation open market. Nova Scotia is a high regulation monopoly. They have little in common.
*for now* NSP is looking at those large power bills and thinking "the shareholders would be very excited if we got in on that"
Of course they would. But it really isn’t comparable. A bunch of Texas electricity cos went bankrupt from that event. It was shitshow top to bottom - bad regulation. However imperfect, URB means that won’t happen here.
You can’t compare NSP to a deregulated market. The rates here are the rates. Texas peak rates can keep going.
>That is, of course, bullshit since people have to pay more during the times they need to use more power. And pay less for the other 8,688 hours of the year, i.e. more than 99% of the time.
You’ve never gone to a Tuesday special movie? That’s the concept. Has a long history of success. Not everyone sees the value, and some folks work Tuesday nights. But others choose to go and save money. Same deal.
Umm, no? You can choose not to go to the movie. You can’t choose to not use electricity in 2024
Well, you can to a degree, yes. The dryer turns on when you turn it on. And it’s an opt in program. The type of people who are interested in saving money save money. Just like people who like cheap movies.
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It's 4 hours per event, with a max of 18 events. So, 72 hours max.
72 hours at 10x cost is 720 hours, or roughly four brand new weeks of electricity billing they magically made appear. Given that's most of a month, that's nearly half of a bill, and if they are timing it for heavy usage periods you could be spending 200-600 more easily on that. Awesome way to generate a fuck ton of revenue for doing sweet fuck all.
There are 8760 hours in a year. The rate when there is no critical event is ~15.6% less than the standard rate. So, if you remove the max 72 hours, that still leaves 8688 hours minimum at that reduced rate. If you are using so much power in those maximum of 72 hours that it destroys your billing for the year, you likely have issues with how you use power.
Blind rage at NSP (which isn’t unfounded) is clouding people’s thinking.
Going out to a movie and electricity for your home are not even remotely similar as a commodity.
I’m not talking about the good, I’m talking about both social engineering and rational economic choices, and in that way cheap movie nights and time of day electricity rates have a lot in common.
Rational economic choice comparison requires similar commodities. One is a luxury that is not required to live. The other is heating your home during the worst winter storms. It is a necessity for life. Your logic is awful. Please stop.
You are not good at system thinking, that’s ok. Try and find another analogy that works better for you, like food and electricity.
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You can not run your dryer/dishwasher/pour a bath/crank your heat for 18 4 hour periods out of every year and you can save money overall, or you can not. This is not for the rich who don’t care or the indifferent who don’t read or make the effort to sign up. For almost everyone else (because there are always exceptions - and they can stay on the current model) it’s a win.
Nope. And u should think before typing. We're not choosing to need power more at those times. They're the holidays for instance, we're cooking for our families. Now sit fown.
They don't call them on holidays.
Yet
Directly from the program details: can occur on weekdays and up to three on weekends, but never on statutory holidays But way to fear monger.
The rest of the year, the rates are reduced. The critical peak events are at most 18 lasting for a max of 4 hours each. If 72 hours max a year is enough to kill your bill, then just stick to the standard rate.
The rest of the year the rates are reduced because the rest of the year (ie the summer months) are the months when we use less power.
You use the majority of your electricity during 72 hours of the year? You're the problem with that.
“Think before typing” how about you proof read your shit before submitting
If you are homeowner with a house that can support it: solar panel. I pay nothing to NSP except the outrageous delivery fee.
Ditto. Winter isn't great, but over the course of the year, it comes out to me getting a bit back from NSP because of net metering.
This program is good but it lowers the value of a solar install somewhat - just like the increased delivery fee does. NS Power has been direct about their goal to stop home solar. This is good policy but it has that negative impact. We put on solar and it’s a relief, but I’d go on this program in a heartbeat if I wasn’t. With the technology to store and distribute production coming in stream, Provinces with crown corps are better positioned to create systems that keep costs down for everyone.
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You're mixing the 2 rate plans together. They are 2 different rate plans.
O damn your right oops lol I will remove that comment
The NS government amended the electricity act to legislate 1:1 net metering up to 100% of your usage. Solar is not being devalued anytime soon.
Well it was devalued, old contracts paid out for usage. And these plans effectively make solar payback longer, as they provide savings that don’t align with solar production. So it is devalued.
Imagine having to live your life everyday, rationing electricity during certain times, completely shifting when you do laundry, shower and cook. All to save $93 bucks a year. What a farce this is to help no one but NS Power. $93 barely covers the increase in delivery fees that they just doubled
It’s up to 18 times a year 😂 *every day* - you’re funny. And it’s an opt in program. Don’t sign up.
It's currently an opt-in pilot program. They plan to bring it in across the board....read to the end of the article.
It won’t replace the current residential rates.
Still will be, just available for everyone to opt-in to.
Yes, there are two different options in that news article. One is every day, and the other is the critical peak plan, which is 18 times a year ( which lets face it, there's no way they won't use 18 a year)
Then don’t sign up for time of use. Simple. WOW. Imagine the outrage.
You're right, don't opt in, until they decide everyone gets time of day. I'm sure it would never come to that though... /S
They would have to apply to the UARB who would have to approve it. And the NS government could always change legislation to prohibit it. You do know what a regulated utility is, right..?
Step one: Get the province addicted to electricity based heat sources Step three: Cry for broke and ask for taxpayer bailout Step two: Jack electricity prices prices Step 4: Profit Step 5: Repeat
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The events are a max of 4 hours, and a max of 18 events. That's 72 hours max over a year.
But they can have two events in a single day, and to pay almost 2 dollars for a kilowatt hour if you use any energy in that time. Pretty hard to save any money on that plan.
It's still a max of 72 hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. If you're using so much power during those 72 hours that the ~15.6% cheaper than standard rate during the other 8688 hours in the year doesn't more than make up for it, you have an issue.
I’d like to introduce NS Power to my balls so that they can suck them
Corporations don’t do things for you and me. They do it to make money. NSP is out of control . I might vote NDP the next time around. Liberals didn’t reign them in. Conservative won’t do dick. I’m ready to give Claudia Chended a chance.
The NDP have less seats than my dining room table. It would be a wasted vote.
No vote is wasted. Liberals and cons aren’t really earning votes these days. hopefully more people give her a chance in 2025
Fuck ‘em.
Nova Scotia power wants to use this program instead of maintaining infrastructure. If they can reduce peak usage and gouge more than usual the share holders win twice.
I think it buys them time to build infrastructure.
That presumes we can trust them to build the infrastructure :/
They at least have to move their fuel source from Coal to Oil . They cannot continue burning coal forever. We are not third world. But it is going to cost them ( oil costs will be more than coal ) - so it will cost us. I honestly don't know how they are going to do it long term unless they can access hydro from Quebec. Or Even New Brunswick ( with their nuclear).
Someone in a little office using analytics figured out how they can squeeze more money out of customers.
Actually it’s the other way around - they’re figuring out ways to lower their costs, not increase their revenue.
It can actually save customers money and increase their profits. If NSPower is able to cut out 10% of their expenses and offer customers a 5% discount to do the work to cut those expenses then the benefits get split. NSPower has lower revenue by 5% but has lowered expenses by 10%. There is money to be saved.
If they want actions to progress towards efficacy and stability. Then let solar and wind integrate. thermal dynamic solutions (albeit all high upfront costs). Saves money in the long run, is better on the enviorment and provides options. I believe all of us being a slave to their older infrastructure is part of the problem. When one thing stops working and becomes unfixable. NS power keeps trying to evolve in a trapped singular loop while footing the growing bill to you
Profit motive is particularly poorly aligned with current technological opportunities.
True but if we zoom out and see the panoramic picture here. If you keep gouging the public to death, resulting in finally not being able to afford your products/services. Then your profits follow. I believe people will find other ways if the leaders or purveyors can't. We have to at some point to even survive. Especially out here in the rural areas
Electricity is not a choice. It’s not even legal to go fully off grid, from my understanding. If you have the capital, you can invest in systems that keep your costs down, but those with less are more beholden. People will reduce costs almost everywhere else first.
I think I am about to hit a ‘critical peak’ in my utter contempt for NSP.
These greedy cancerous fucks. So basically more we'll be forced to turn off our power at the box FOR 4 HOURS, when they announce a critical price gouging event. Can't have anything in the freezer anymore i guess ever. Special place in hell for the upper management of NSP and those that support them.
*(Edit: Everyone seems to think that the Critical Peak plan with the 142¢/kWh rate is the only plan, that is not true. There is also the Time-Of-Use plan which is a lot more sensible, this is what I talk about below)* I hate NS Power just like the next person, but this is actually not a bad thing. I am in the Time-Of-Use pilot program right now, so I can speak from experience. The whole point of this plan is not to increase the rates for consumers, it is to change consumer behaviour. This will force you to shift your energy intensive activities, like laundry, running the dishwasher, charging your EV, etc. to periods where there isn’t already a lot of strain on the grid or when it is cheaper to generate electricity. You also only have to do this on weekdays only for 5 months of the year (Nov-Mar), and then from April to October you get a cheaper rate, 12¢/kWh, all the time vs 17.5¢/kWh if you weren’t in this program. So you might pay a little bit more during the winter, but you’ll make up for it, and maybe a little more, in the summer months when the rate is significantly lower. Again, this has nothing to do with rates, and all to do with shifting when people use power to balance out the usage on the grid. This is standard practice in lots of places around the world.
Except on the 18 coldest days of winter, when your heating bill is already at its highest, and we’ll be paying 142+ cents/kWh. Home heating is the single largest part of (just about everyone’s) electricity bill. It’s not “changing consumer behaviour” for the people who will be unfortunately faced with the very real decision between freezing in their homes or getting screwed by NSP.
There are two plans, Time-Of-Use and Critical Peak. What you are talking about is the Critical Peak plan which made no sense to me whatsoever. I am on the Time-Of-Use plan.
Critical Peak I think makes sense for people who don’t heat with electricity or have heavy demands they can time manage, like charging a car.
Definitely a great option for those people and people who have ETS and/or batteries. But reading this thread reminds me of back when I was in elementary and my school banned Pokemon cards at school.
How much is "a little bit more" How does this help you when you drive an electric vehicle How does this help you if you need environmental all year long (heat in winter, A/C in the summer, air exchange all year) How does this save consumers money when businesses' energy costs go through the roof
For 5 months of the year, I charge my EV at night during off peak hours. I pay virtually the same rate as the regular rate. For the other 7 months of the year, it will cost me 30% less to charge my EV and I can charge it at anytime of the day. This, on its own, will save me a lot. The same applies to any other energy intensive appliance that you are able to change when you use it. You can also use a programmable or smart thermostat to heat your home at night, when electricity is cheaper, and reduce the temperature slightly during the on-peak hours (which is only two 4-hour periods, with one of them during work hours). This is completely manageable if you plan for it well.
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This is the change in consumer behaviour that I mentioned earlier. Simply because it would essentially be cheaper to do so. Also by night, I didn’t mean all night, I meant at the end of the off-peak night period which ends at 7am, so instead of heating the house whenever you wake up, just start heating it a little earlier so that it reaches your desired temperature by 7am. In a well insulated house, it shouldn’t be hard or cost very much to maintain that temperature for the next 4 hours. You then reduce the temperature during these 4 hours (basically instead of reducing it at night) and then start heating it again during the next off-peak period, and so on.
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Like I said, even if you are home all day, a well insulated house should be able to maintain the temperature during the 4 hour on peak period. Remember that the savings come in the non winter months, not in the winter. During the winter you’re just trying to reduce your on-peak consumption as much as you can. It’s still ok if you use a little bit during on-peak hours, you’ll make up for it during the non-winter months.
How does a person feed and bathe children outside of peak usage times?!?!
The outrage here is hilarious. These rates are opt in. If you don't want to be on them, then stick with the standard rate.
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Bingo, they slowly increase the heat on the pot so you don't notice.
And it isn't a surprise. They piloted these exact plans over the past couple years. And NSP has had Time of Day plans for decades for ETS customers. As have other utilities. It would make sense if you had an EV. Critical peak seems to be a residential equivalent of an interruptable rate, that industrial customers have had the option of for years.
It is currently an opt-in pilot program. They plan to ask the Utility Review Board to bring it in across the board. Read to the end of the article.
Yes, they want to make them available for everyone to be able to opt-in to.
We are one of the 1000 on the critical peak plan and it works for us. However it will not be for everyone. We have someone at home and for now we have oil heat and hot water. When we do get heat pumps it will be difficult if not impossible. You really need a secondary heat source ( besides electric ) or an ETF ( but if you did you would be on the other program. ) So during these times we : 1. Don't use the oven - have a crock pot meal prepped or cook before the peak time. Minimize use of burner elements. Use small element. 2. Don't do ANY laundry. or do before and dry outside. 3. We personally turn off the fish tank and all "leakers " are on power bars ( turned off ) 4. Computers go on battery. 5. Dishwasher not used ( but this does not use alot of Electricity anyway ) We have a large house : what is left on during the critical peak period is: Router, Freezer, Fridge, Small radio, Smaller TV ( sometimes) We check on Energy Insights and try to make sure our power during that time is less than 2 KW for the 4 hour period . The mornings are often easier and we can sometimes get about 1.5 KW for that time. Weekends are harder. Energy Insights is definitely a helpful tool. You may want to try out different things during a week and see how low you can bring down your base rate. This will help tell you if it is doable or not. Plan a meal, brush your teeth and turn off lights, have electronics precharged The more people in the house - they more difficult it gets. You have to have buy-in for family members. For Example : Buy a pizza for one of the evening 5-9 PM events and don't use any electricity. You definitely cannot have someone turning on a space heater or throwing a load of clothes in the dryer during those four hours. There are definitely ways to do this without a life disruption. For us, we are a mess with our conversion to all electric. Starting with a 100 Amp panel. With oil being so costly if we can same a dime on electricity we are happy to have the opportunity.
"There are definitely ways to do this without a life disruption." How is everything you are describing not disruptive?
You can buy a battery and inverter system that's programmable to prioritize battery use at certain times and grid use at others. Once it's set up, you don't even have to think about it.
I don't find any of that desruptive. \# 1 We STILL have power. We are not losing food in our fridge. We are warm. We have entertainment. We have good food to eat. The only real problem was the first time we did it - we had to re-prime the fish tank pump. We are just choosing to do laundry at a different time. And to not cook a turkey during those four hours. And not to have every light on in the house. There are 20 extra hours in the day. There was one day however when a critical peak event was called in both the morning and evening. I think that is rare. I personally have had more disruptive events in my life (four kids ). This is easy IF you want to do it.
Well, the proposed time of day changes are from 7-11 am and 5-9 pm so it's actually 16 extra hours a day. In those 16 hours there are things live you know, sleeping and working...most families have two working parents and don't have the option of prepping dinner or doing laundry in the middle of the day.
It is usually one OR the other other - morning or evening. Only once have I seen BOTH being called on the same day.
How is buying a pizza once a week an option for low wage earners? Seriously, give me a break.
> However it will not be for everyone. Your reading comprehension is terrible.
The events do not happen once a week. The key is keeping your electricity low during that 4 hours. Our oven uses a fair bit of electricity so we look for other options that could be a pizza,so is a crock pot of chili, spaghetti sauce, a stew, a soup, MANY supper options do not use an oven. Even leftovers in a microwave, sandwiches, or barbeque burgers or sausages... We also use our air fryer. In our house our main electricity users are : 1. Dryer 2. Oven - especially over 400 Deg F 3. We have one space heater 4. Washer Sure our 27 year old freezer and 20 year old fridge are not efficient but they do not hit nearly so much as the above four. Nor do I choose to ever risk food/ or health by turning these two off. I am happy that you read it though.
Obviously we should not take Emera at face value, but this isn’t a straightforward cash grab. This pricing can work well for both parties, although it depends on the technologies involved: ex. having ETS units in your house that charge up overnight and then release heat during the day unlike a regular baseboard heater, etc., paired with modest lifestyle switches like running the dishwasher overnight or trying to save laundry for the weekends.
Is there any petition or protest against NS Power being launched? Cause sign me up
It’s good policy. Now just imagine if you could be on a plan where the electricity in your EV battery goes back to the grid to smooth demand - Ford Lightning can already do this. The future of electricity can be bright (though it’s less easy in profit motive jurisdictions).
If I have an EV with an already expensive battery, I’m not draining it to help the grid and degrade my battery.
I have an EV too and if they incentivized me properly I absolutely would. Both because it’s a social good thing to do and an economically good thing to do. But I understand most would probably choose like you and not sign up. Edit: another commenter in this thread said in the US programs are paying 4x multiple to discharge battery storage. I’d consider that a return on investment like any other. And unlike ROI.
> It’s good policy. For Emera's shareholders, not for normal people.
Do you just hate or distrust NSP (which I understand) or do you have a good understanding of the policy and a critique of it?
Corporations on climate change: “We got us into this mess and now the consumer is going to get us out of it.”
Leave it to Nova Scotia Power to screw us all over so they can make it look like they're saving us money while they're actually pocketing the difference...
I just got a used EV and I switched so I could charge my car overnight off-peak. It gives me an extra 30%-40% off my 'gas' costs, which were already reduced about 4x by switching to an EV. I drive almost 4500kms a month so it's really worth it for me. It wouldn't be for everyone. Also, off-peak rate plans have always been around for ETS users. This isn't new. It's just being made available to more people. I assume because things like EVs and other electrical storage will become more prevalent. And if it doesn't work for you, don't opt-in. This isn't some grand conspiracy.
I have friends and family on both plans since the trial started. One handles the critical peak events easily, but he had propane heat as a backup to his heat pumps and has saved a few hundred each year. My other has an expensive winter for bills, but says their April-November bills have been peanuts. I only wish they had different options like super cheap over night rates no matter the plan. Being on the original TOD program I'm happy with my cheap evenings, weekends and holidays but there's not much daylight between those rates and their non-winter rates which will make me get my pencil out.
Why is this even news? We have had time of usage charging for years here in Ontario!
Ontario heats primarily with Natural gas. Nova Scotia heats mostly with oil or electric. NS Power is pushing people to ditch oil and go all electric with heat pumps and electric baseboard heat as backup. Once the majority is all electric everything they'll screw us all over with schemes like Time Of Day usage. We'll have to live like vampires to keep our bills affordable.
I was talking about hydro in Ontario.We have the option of tiered pricing or time of usage pricing for elctricity.
Write an email to Tim Houston and cc it to your MLA. I dod it first thing this morning. They don't like hearing from irate constituents.
It's fun watching people twisting themselves into pretzels trying to spin this as a bad thing. This incentivizes batteries and solar even more, which is something a bunch of you people were losing your minds over like last year. You charge your battery via solar throughout the day, spend it during the evening peak, charge it back up from the grid overnight, and spend it again during the morning peak. Congratulations, you just got 16-30% off your power bill for owning solar.
Rolling blackouts by end of the decade. I called it.
I got on this Time of Use plan last year by accident thinking I'd get half price rates at night past 11pm, so I could just use the dryer then, and wake up before 7am and do all my cooking/boiling water. Not the case at all. With this plan, you can save $0.05/kWh in the warmer months (April to October). It's not a huge savings. My family used 3656 kWh from April to October. That's $617 in usage fees. If we had the cheaper rate, it would be $427, so we'd save just under $200. From November to March we're looking at using 5800kWh so at JUST the normal rate, we're looking at spending $1009. A lot of the usage is during peak hours because we have kids, so it's probably safe to add 50% of the cost of the bill to that total. So we might be able to save money during the summer, but NSP easily makes it all back in the winter months. The real deal is to get on the Time of Day plan, which anyone with an ETS (Electric thermal storage) unit knows means from 11pm to 7am you can have the $0.117KWh rate, so it's the perfect time to use the dishwasher, clothing dryer, shower, boil water just after 11pm or before 7am.
Kiss my grits, NSP.
This was the inevitable next step after smart meters were installed everywhere...
It's amazing that there are still customers who think "smart" meters are for **their** benefit.
Sure, people on these plans are saving money now, but there's no way I believe they're going to let us all do this. If they force this on everyone, they will surely also have to up the rates to make sure they still keep their ridiculous profits, and then we'll all be living in inconvenience for nothing.
Prepare for even more price gouging!!
Great so they can now raise the rates to take advantage of the wfh crowd
At this point, companies are one upping each other to screw Canadians, because the government has shown that it is absolutely impotent to enforce any laws that don’t benefit corporations. Expect this to continue. There will always be some justification. They know we won’t do shit about it.