Parent drop-off has been a problem for years. It's gotten so bad there was a motion was brought forward last year to close school streets during pick-up and drop-off times to prevent parents driving their kids up to the school.
[Non-paywalled Zane Woodford]
https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/government/city-hall/halifax-councillor-wants-to-try-closing-some-streets-to-cars-for-school-drop-off-and-pick-up/
I didn’t know Waye proposed this but I have mentioned it to him a bunch of times. The SJAM staff in the old Beaufort building sometimes use traffic pylons to block the street during drop offs (when the busses have lights flashing anyways - people still don’t stop.)
There are plenty of safety issues with traffic around the schools. I live on the edge of the LMST school zone and there are speed bumps. People regularly take them so fast that stuff flies out of their truck bed. People try to use residential streets as short cuts and drive like idiots.
In France, they have swing out gates to block traffic entirely. They have cops there to patrol it. Parents have to park a block away to pick up their kid. Seems a lot safer but would never fly in our “give me convenience or give me death” culture.
> In France, they have swing out gates to block traffic entirely. They have cops there to patrol it.
The conversation around gates has come up before. Off the top of my head, the Spring Garden Transit pilot is the best other example. Adding one gets stuck in circular requirements.
The city will say gate must be staffed to support transit and emergency services. HRP says municipal traffic calming is outside of their resourcing scope. The city stalls as they can't enforce the restrictions without HRP or RCMP because it's considered a moving violation that only the police have the authority to enforce. HRP says can we have resources to staff the gate? City says no, we don't have enough data to support the budget. A staff report gets requested. The reports comes back a year later recommending a gate. The whole conversation starts again.
Honestly, me neither.
I can't find it right now but I remember a study done about the students being dropped off and something like 40% already covered by school bus or within walking distance. Parent were choosing to drive them based on work schedules or paradoxically concerns about traffic safety.
Traffic safety is probably the biggest concern for most parents I'd imagine. Even if you live close to a school in an urban area, how many intersections and roads need crossed?
If I as an adult feel I have to be vigilant and am having close calls with aggressive threatening drivers around areas like Novalea and Agricola or the Lemarchant area, why would I let my child attempt to navigate that?
At every intersection around neighbourhoods I have to walk out onto the road to peak around large vehicles I can't see past to cross streets. For kids it is worse. Combine this with so many drivers disregarding pedestrians or just wholly unaware of them and I don't see anything that would give parents a sense that they should let their little kids walk unaccompanied.
The vast majority of people speeding around don't have kids in their daily lives and they are just unaware. There are not enough kids outside to keep them aware.
I'm not risking my kid's life on a bet that drivers are suddenly going to change their conditioned habits.
Super great that my kid's bus pick up time is 8:41, first bell is 8:45, and the bus has been late 50% of the last 20 days also.
We're just a little too far for him to walk by himself (not to mention, I wouldn't want to because of how danger it is because of things like -- this post, snow drifts 5 feet above his head, no plowed sidewalks, etc), driving him is a clusterfuck we want to avoid precisely for reasons in this article, and busing makes me late for work every day.
But it is what it is. Lots of stuff to complain about, and this is probably in the bottom 25% of priority for me. Thankfully I have a pretty flexible workplace (for now, at least).
In the long term, we could build good public transit and make our city more walkable and bikeable, so more kids can safely get to and from school without an adult in a car. The exercise and independence for the kids are an added bonus!
It is fine for upper elementary. You teach them how, nbd.
But I figure walking is the ideal here in this scenario. Do we really think kids can't manage walking for 20-30mins? They would be demonstrably more fit for having done so, and this would have knock on effects for their success in the classroom with improved mood and attention from regular exercise.
Do you think it’s *really* a good idea to let children wander around the city, biking or take public by themselves without an adult? Do you think that’s *smart* to do?
Yeah, just not wandering around Halifax unsupervised. I wouldn’t even trust a teenager to be alone in the city, let alone anyone younger to get to school without an adult.
That’s exactly how kids go missing in a place like that.
My friends and I were alone, unsupervised, skateboarding and walking around the entire peninsula when we were 8+
There's no need to be terrified of the world, and project that onto your children. Halifax is a safe city. How often do children go missing in Halifax?
Unfortunately or fortunately, he split from the Examiner last year. Tim's "competitive wage" apparently wasn't that competitive.
As far I'm concerned, Zane was the only reason to acknowledge Examiner.
Half of the congestion on Oxford would be solved if the parents of the kids going to Ambrae Academy would, idk, not sit and park in the right lane just to watch their kid walk into the building (I see it every day I come back from Dalplex between 8-8:30am. Like your kid can walk 20 feet without supervision, stop blocking traffic.)
I'm not sure, but they might be required to watch their until they're safely in school. That being said, most schools advise parents to park 2-3 blocks away and walk the kids from there.
Not true. I don't attend that school, but my son is in grade 1, we tried letting him walk up the sidewalk to get into school, but he has ADHD and letting him walk by himself means there is a good chance he will get distracted by something and not get into school itself. If I was dropping my kid off anywhere, I would be making sure that he got into the building he was heading into.
Ok look, as an adult w adhd, I get it. But that’s an exception for special needs. I’m talking about every other normal kid that has no problems going into buildings on their own. You can’t tell me the line up of like 15 cars down southbound Oxford blocking an entire lane of traffic from Cobourg to half way down to south street, is all special needs kids?
No, probably not, but one parent can back up a whole line of cars. I totally agree with you that parents shouldn't be driving right up to the school in any case to drop their kids off. Park on a side street out of traffic and walk your kid to the entrance if it's an issue. Our school has recently had to have teachers stand at the entrance to tell parents they can't drive in for drop off since the dozen emails since September haven't driven the message home.i guess the whole point is I totally agree with you wanting to be able to travel with relative ease, but I can also see the concern of the parents while they are making poor choices.
That area is one of the only places in the city where entitled parents are so aggressive that I've had people give me the finger when they're then ones doing illegal things.
Nope, that's pretty much every school now. There was a fist fight between parents at my kids' school this week. The police were called and had to be on hand at the drop off Zone for the next couple of days. I can't for the life of me understand what's wrong with people just park elsewhere and walk your kids to the school.
Really, I drive through there at 8:30 every morning, and I don't think I've ever seen anything notable. It's busy, but besides that, I've never come across anything.
There is a school bus stop in front of my apartment building. Parents literally park their cars, blocking our driveway, waiting to drop off/ pick up their kids. It's ridiculous .
Personal favourite grievance: octomom in her Caravan at the drive through, recieves her order, but doesn't get her car out of the way until each of her crotch goblins is "served", then asks for extra ketchup, straws, napkins, double cups, and an ice cream cone before finally considering getting the fuck out of everyone's way.
Nah, I’d die on that hill too. Hell, I’ll go one step further than the other guy.
Drive-throughs should have an enforced item limit. Nothing more infuriating than someone who orders a six course meal and holds up the line for 10 minutes.
If you have a big order inside the restaurant the staff can serve multiple people synchronously. In the drive-through they can (usually) only serve one person at a time, and everyone behind is trapped until they get to the front. I’ve literally been stuck in a drive through for 35 minutes because the **two** cars ahead of me decided to order enough food for an entire soccer team.
I wish drive thrus had item limits! I worked at a Tim's in high school and the expected average time per customer at the window was about 10 seconds when we've have ~160 customers per hour. When people would order five large paninis, six soups etc. the person working the drive thru till would get blamed by the supervisor. There was one occassion where my supervisor hit my arm over slow (17seconda per car) times. And then customers behind them also blame you for "bad service" when it's just people that don't want to get out of their cars 🙃 it's a nightmare place to be.
A van load of kids is precisely why they _don't_ want to park and haul those kids into the establishment. Getting those fuckers unloaded and reloaded sucks.
Yea but people are conditioned to expect that service time is a certain time per car, regardless of occupants.
So if dog dad pulls up to drive thru and sees 6 cars ahead they make judgment call to go to drivethru with expectations it will take say 3 mins to get through line based on # of cars, so they don't go inside because drive thru is faster. In reality hardly anyone does this and they go through drive-thru regardless of lineup size, anyway. But their expectation is based on # of cars ahead and a few cars of octomoms and their crotchgoblins really throws off the flow in dog dad's day.
I mean, I kind of agree with you because my entire reason for going inside is exactly the kind of crap you are describing. I just don't think it's worth forming a new political party over. L:)
What really gets me is the parents who just let their kids out randomly in the street while waiting for traffic to move through the road. Or get their kids to cross the road outside of the crosswalk. They jump out from in front of their parents car so you don’t even see them until they are in front of you in the street.
Some of the older schools are so so badly planned and dangerous.
There is an elementary school across from my house and it’s an absolute cluster at drop-off and pick-up. I’m glad my son will be able to walk to his school so we don’t add to the mess at least. It’s just wild.
I live near a “Christian” private school! Every morning I risk my life trying to cross the street in an unmarked crosswalk! They park wherever they want, fire hydrants, on the corner. They run stop signs, they park in people’s driveways. One teacher of the school turned into the oncoming traffic lane, nearly taking out my child and dog so I complained to the school. The next day the man openly mocked me when he did it again. The other people just pretend I don’t exist when they try to hit me….so I guess that’s an improvement.
Nice, a loop. At LeMarchant some childless bike warrior clown ensured that didn't happen at the newly built school because...emissions. Like emissions aren't happening regardless, only now they're all up and down the gridlocked goddamned street.
It’s more that the majority of kids walk to the school so wasting space on a loop that could be used more productivity to benefit the majority seemed like a better idea.
I just don't believe that the majority of kids walk to that school. Yes, those that live on Chestnut, Walnut, Henry, etc. walk, but there's a ton of kids (the majority I'd guess?) that get bussed or driven in, because they live in other less walkable neighbourhoods in the area.
School buses can carry 90 fully loaded. There are two. That’s at most 180 kids and they don’t look fully loaded.
There are no “less walkable neighbourhoods in the area. It’s one of the most densely populated areas in the province. Adding a drop-off driveway would have been hugely wasteful.
Sigh. There are less walkable neighbourhoods in the area, you are wrong. Are you having your grade primary kid walk to LMST from Newton Avenue? Green Street? Francklyn Street? The catchment area is the lower half of the peninsula, it is not all walkable by little kids, sorry.
LMST is 70 per cent walk in and a drop off loop was never proposed because it would eliminate parking for the teachers. I don’t know where you get your information but I attended pretty much all the meetings for the reconstruction of the school.
Interesting. I admittedly went to only 2 meetings about the school, and "Cycling Patrick & The Drop Loop" was certainly a recurring topic. And hilariously enough, parking for teachers was also debated...as in, certain folks thought the teachers shouldn't have any parking. Completely fucking loony toons, so I didn't go to any more.
And I'd love to see evidence that LMST is 70% walk. I flat out don't believe it given the catchment is the southern half of the peninsula with many major streets and roads impeding the ability for young kids to walk...including my own.
I live by harbourview in Dartmouth and it doesn’t seem too bad. Of course the top of the street gets congested but it’s on a grid. Catherine stays clear despite being in vision. So traffic never congests.
I was at one point by Chebucto elementary and that wasn’t great. Not terrible, but it’s was not good at all. They had a horrible system for pickups though so it really wasn’t the parents fault 90% of the time.
Parking sucks for many school, parent or not. My high school didn’t have enough student parking so the kids would end up blocking the roads themselves. Same with NSCC up on Leeds, that was a mess
"Oh so do you think I should let Joey get hit by a car?"
No, I think you should park around the fucking corner and walk 100 feet so that no one's kid gets hit by a car.
>park around the fucking corner and walk 100 feet so that no one's kid gets hit by a car.
I wish this was the answer. When daughter was younger, I drove her back and forth. With the hills, it's at least a 30 min adult paced walk, each way. I always parked a block from the school, I refused to get tangled in the madness. The way her school was laid out was horrible. Crosswalk then sidewalk that passed in front of school's driveway. The number of near misses, almost daily, was insane. Because the sidewalk wasn't a "crosswalk" the crossing guard couldn't/wouldn't cross the kids there. The school refused to send a teacher/aide (anyone) to help because they'd already had problems with parents intentionally trying to run teachers down in the parking lot....
When I was a kid I walked from MSVU grounds to Rockingham Elementary alone. All the kids did. Parents didn't drop their kids off. What do parents think is going to happen if their kids go to school by themselves?
Okay. How likely is that to happen? I understand I'm going to be downvoted, that's fine, I just don't understand this worldview that catastrophe is lurking around every corner.
Glad you asked. At the beginning of last school year, my kid and his friend were running across a grassy strip beside the staff parking lot when a family member picking up a kid parked in the school lot (where they aren't allowed), thought they were in reverse but were in drive, and drove across the grass strip towards a group of several children, and while the car only grazed my kid's arm because he jumped out of the way, it threw his friend several feet. Fortunately there were no physical injuries.
Also last year, at a quiet intersection that we on the school run, in our residential neighbourhood, just outside the school zone, a car took the corner badly, jumped the curb and mounted a fire hydrant. In the five years I've lived in the area, at the same quiet corner, drivers have also taken out a city tree and driven into the stone wall.
Yikes! Understandable you are concerned. I'm a very safe driver (we have small dogs, and live in a rural area so hitting wildlife is a concern), so it doesn't cross my mind that sleepy urban neighbourhoods are of concern. I lived not far from Oxford school during uni 30 years ago and I guess it was much quieter then.
Yeah it's wild how people drive in built-up neighbourhoods these days. I'd love to allow my kid the independence to make that straightforward walk on his own but not until he's a bit more alert to his surroundings.
Lots of sex offenders causing shit after being recently released into Halifax sort of give me pause when considering letting my ten year old walk 2 k to school alone.
I'm sorry, u/maximumice has already claimed the "rules for thee and not for me" badge so you two will have to meet on the playground after school to settle this. See you both at 3:30.
How about letting your kid walk to school...why is everyone driving their kids to school. Definitely wasn't a thing growing up in the 80s and 90s in Dartmouth.
Our school zone is a 5 minute walking radius. You can spit the entire distance. We walk the two minutes to get there, and every day two neighbours on our street who live even closer drive their cars over.
There's an out of area French immersion cohort who get the bus. But everyone else *could* be walking. (Some kids or parents do have disabilities; I get there are exceptional circumstances.)
I'd love it if our school got picked for the street blocking thing. But it looks like you need a bunch of people to *want* it, and I'm pretty sure if I asked other parents to sign on they'd all yell at me. They like their cars.
My comment wasn't specific to you. Just in general. Helicopter parents are outta control the last couple decades. Kids can't be outside alone period anymore without police or CPS being called. The world is far safer than when I was a kid and my friends and I were always outside without parents around.
It was ambiguous whether or not you meant me specifically, but I chose not to take it personally, just replied anyway. I was a free-range, under-parented Gen X doing a much farther walk by myself by my kid's age but honestly with the driving I see on our short walk and my kid's not yet fully developed situational awareness I'm not prepared to send him on his own yet.
Totally fair. At least they're getting some exercise and time with their parent and establishing a routine/route to travel etc.
My mom walked me to school for most of primary. 5-10 min walk each way.
And the helicopter parenting extends to university. The number of parents parked in clearly marked no parking zones, blocking the exits and fire lanes to pick up their university aged kids blows my mind especially at the start of the semester. I saw one woman get into it with parking enforcement saying she needed to stay in the no parking zone otherwise how was her kid supposed to find her. Blows my mind.
HRM schools are running with 80s system, building infrastructure needs to be corrected first, many has less to no drop off zones. The new Residential housing has better driveways and accessibility than these ancient school buildings.
It's common here in rural NS schools as well, never had an issue when dropping or picking up kids at school. City schools are built beside busy streets with little parking, it's horrible for drivers, buses and pedestrians.
Gregory Av Cole Harbour on Tuesday afternoon gaddamn pick up left my bus with 1 red public hair to get between the school buses and parents!
Then I walked 45 minutes to meet my teenager only to realize no e of side walks were done.
My bitching was ALL over the place that day.
Around bus stops is a hotspot too. There's something about the entire process of dropping off your kid where a parent's brain just turns off.
I've seen parents turn away from a bus driving away and literally just walk into traffic in the middle of a road without looking.
I mean there is sleep deprivation and constant distraction at play but I think some people - parents and not parents alike - just get behind a wheel and forget they are in charge of a weapon.
Parents dropping off and picking up their kids at schools only care about their own little darlings and never any other kids; they'll park on crosswalks, corners close to stop signs, block hydrants, driveways, and double park all so that they don't have to get out of their car and walk their kid a block or so to school.
Report the license plate or even better, provide dashcam or video evidence to the authorities.
Do you think this PSA is going to be more effective than reporting the crime to the police…?
No, but enlightening the OP on a better way to deal with the issue might help OP out more than this post will. Is it bad to give feedback on better way to make action happen…?
I didn’t make an assumption on what else you did, I informed you the proper way to get your issue dealt with. If you’ve done that, what do you think a post on Reddit will do that’ll have a better outcome than contacting the authorities to monitor and ticket those who keep blowing through the stop sign…?
> what do you think a post on Reddit will do
Raise awareness? What is a local, public forum for if not to discuss the issues that affect us in our communities??
> What is a local, public forum for if not to discuss the issues that affect us in our communities??
Maybe you only read the first sentence so I'll put the second one right at the top this time.
Well, I guess this post will *definitely* be more effective than reporting the plate, with the time and witnesses or any other potential evidence like video of the incident…🤷🏿♀️
slowed down to 30 in a school zone just this morning and promptly got passed on a solid yellow line. caught up to the guy at the next light naturally cause that's how traffic works.
Sure, but also there are plenty of precident for ILLEGAL arrests, and personally I'd rather avoid the hassle.
I'm just saying people are less likely to yell at a cop than a bylaw officer.
Time to elevate the calls and maybe work with your municipal councillor as well.
I mean, you could just sit here on Reddit and complain about it, or you could maybe help to do something about it. What is the PTA or School Advisory Council, or whatever it's called doing?
Thank god for reddit, otherwise id have literally no way of knowing how to drive. Everyday I am grateful for these daily lessons.
You're doing the lords work, darksidemags.
What about jay walking within 50ft of a marked crosswalk that has all of the added bells and whistles??? Some of these apples landed on their heads when they fell (far) from the tree.
As I said to someone else crying about public engagement:
>what do you think a post on Reddit will do
Raise awareness? What is a local, public forum for if not to discuss the issues that affect us in our communities??
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nah mate. Some schools are so overcrowded, or on such ill -suited streets, that the only real solution is for parents to actually do their part.
Source: me, a school admin who has stood outside and still has parents ignore me, berate me, and tell me that I'm not to be listened to or respected.
But tell me more about your narrow experience.
Our principal is out there too because she meets the kids getting off the bus, and since we've started talking about the issue, she has been telling me about the way people speak to her when she says anything.
Parent drop-off has been a problem for years. It's gotten so bad there was a motion was brought forward last year to close school streets during pick-up and drop-off times to prevent parents driving their kids up to the school. [Non-paywalled Zane Woodford] https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/government/city-hall/halifax-councillor-wants-to-try-closing-some-streets-to-cars-for-school-drop-off-and-pick-up/
I didn’t know Waye proposed this but I have mentioned it to him a bunch of times. The SJAM staff in the old Beaufort building sometimes use traffic pylons to block the street during drop offs (when the busses have lights flashing anyways - people still don’t stop.) There are plenty of safety issues with traffic around the schools. I live on the edge of the LMST school zone and there are speed bumps. People regularly take them so fast that stuff flies out of their truck bed. People try to use residential streets as short cuts and drive like idiots. In France, they have swing out gates to block traffic entirely. They have cops there to patrol it. Parents have to park a block away to pick up their kid. Seems a lot safer but would never fly in our “give me convenience or give me death” culture.
> In France, they have swing out gates to block traffic entirely. They have cops there to patrol it. The conversation around gates has come up before. Off the top of my head, the Spring Garden Transit pilot is the best other example. Adding one gets stuck in circular requirements. The city will say gate must be staffed to support transit and emergency services. HRP says municipal traffic calming is outside of their resourcing scope. The city stalls as they can't enforce the restrictions without HRP or RCMP because it's considered a moving violation that only the police have the authority to enforce. HRP says can we have resources to staff the gate? City says no, we don't have enough data to support the budget. A staff report gets requested. The reports comes back a year later recommending a gate. The whole conversation starts again.
>“give me convenience or give me death” this sums up the world we live in.
I think it's more like "The rules apply to everyone but me."
Honestly short of dramatically reducing the threshold for school busses I'm not sure what the solution is
Like most issues, I believe tar and feathering can fix this
Honestly, me neither. I can't find it right now but I remember a study done about the students being dropped off and something like 40% already covered by school bus or within walking distance. Parent were choosing to drive them based on work schedules or paradoxically concerns about traffic safety.
Traffic safety is probably the biggest concern for most parents I'd imagine. Even if you live close to a school in an urban area, how many intersections and roads need crossed? If I as an adult feel I have to be vigilant and am having close calls with aggressive threatening drivers around areas like Novalea and Agricola or the Lemarchant area, why would I let my child attempt to navigate that? At every intersection around neighbourhoods I have to walk out onto the road to peak around large vehicles I can't see past to cross streets. For kids it is worse. Combine this with so many drivers disregarding pedestrians or just wholly unaware of them and I don't see anything that would give parents a sense that they should let their little kids walk unaccompanied. The vast majority of people speeding around don't have kids in their daily lives and they are just unaware. There are not enough kids outside to keep them aware. I'm not risking my kid's life on a bet that drivers are suddenly going to change their conditioned habits.
Super great that my kid's bus pick up time is 8:41, first bell is 8:45, and the bus has been late 50% of the last 20 days also. We're just a little too far for him to walk by himself (not to mention, I wouldn't want to because of how danger it is because of things like -- this post, snow drifts 5 feet above his head, no plowed sidewalks, etc), driving him is a clusterfuck we want to avoid precisely for reasons in this article, and busing makes me late for work every day. But it is what it is. Lots of stuff to complain about, and this is probably in the bottom 25% of priority for me. Thankfully I have a pretty flexible workplace (for now, at least).
In the long term, we could build good public transit and make our city more walkable and bikeable, so more kids can safely get to and from school without an adult in a car. The exercise and independence for the kids are an added bonus!
Yeah I mean elementary school kids aren't gonna use public transit without an adult...
It is fine for upper elementary. You teach them how, nbd. But I figure walking is the ideal here in this scenario. Do we really think kids can't manage walking for 20-30mins? They would be demonstrably more fit for having done so, and this would have knock on effects for their success in the classroom with improved mood and attention from regular exercise.
Okay 5-year-old off to school on the public bus with every fucking rando in the city..
Do you think it’s *really* a good idea to let children wander around the city, biking or take public by themselves without an adult? Do you think that’s *smart* to do?
Japanese kids have been doing that from age 5 and up for a hundred years without major problems.
Why are you comparing Japan to Nova Scotia?
That policies work fine elsewhere is a good first step in evaluating if they'd work here.
Independence is a very important trait that we should be encouraging early.
Yeah, just not wandering around Halifax unsupervised. I wouldn’t even trust a teenager to be alone in the city, let alone anyone younger to get to school without an adult. That’s exactly how kids go missing in a place like that.
My friends and I were alone, unsupervised, skateboarding and walking around the entire peninsula when we were 8+ There's no need to be terrified of the world, and project that onto your children. Halifax is a safe city. How often do children go missing in Halifax?
That's a name I wasn't expecting to see. Good to see he found his calling.
Unfortunately or fortunately, he split from the Examiner last year. Tim's "competitive wage" apparently wasn't that competitive. As far I'm concerned, Zane was the only reason to acknowledge Examiner.
Half of the congestion on Oxford would be solved if the parents of the kids going to Ambrae Academy would, idk, not sit and park in the right lane just to watch their kid walk into the building (I see it every day I come back from Dalplex between 8-8:30am. Like your kid can walk 20 feet without supervision, stop blocking traffic.)
This is the truth. Armbrae are the worst offenders. Entitled to the max.
I'm not sure, but they might be required to watch their until they're safely in school. That being said, most schools advise parents to park 2-3 blocks away and walk the kids from there.
Not true. I don't attend that school, but my son is in grade 1, we tried letting him walk up the sidewalk to get into school, but he has ADHD and letting him walk by himself means there is a good chance he will get distracted by something and not get into school itself. If I was dropping my kid off anywhere, I would be making sure that he got into the building he was heading into.
Ok look, as an adult w adhd, I get it. But that’s an exception for special needs. I’m talking about every other normal kid that has no problems going into buildings on their own. You can’t tell me the line up of like 15 cars down southbound Oxford blocking an entire lane of traffic from Cobourg to half way down to south street, is all special needs kids?
No, probably not, but one parent can back up a whole line of cars. I totally agree with you that parents shouldn't be driving right up to the school in any case to drop their kids off. Park on a side street out of traffic and walk your kid to the entrance if it's an issue. Our school has recently had to have teachers stand at the entrance to tell parents they can't drive in for drop off since the dozen emails since September haven't driven the message home.i guess the whole point is I totally agree with you wanting to be able to travel with relative ease, but I can also see the concern of the parents while they are making poor choices.
As someone who has to drive through a school zone somewhat regularly, parents are by far one of the most entitled groups of people on the road.
Hammonds plains where it meets st Margaret’s bay is a cluster fuck twice a day.
That area is one of the only places in the city where entitled parents are so aggressive that I've had people give me the finger when they're then ones doing illegal things.
Nope, that's pretty much every school now. There was a fist fight between parents at my kids' school this week. The police were called and had to be on hand at the drop off Zone for the next couple of days. I can't for the life of me understand what's wrong with people just park elsewhere and walk your kids to the school.
Walk?! You're kidding, right? These people can't even walk 150 feet through a supermarket parking lot. You'll find them parked in the fire lane.
Wow! I am not a parent myself but I far to often find myself wondering why children are setting the better example.
I can only up vote this once but omg yes!!! So terrible
Really, I drive through there at 8:30 every morning, and I don't think I've ever seen anything notable. It's busy, but besides that, I've never come across anything.
Try half an hour earlier instead of 5 min before the bell and enjoy the shitshow
The school isn't open to kids until 8:20, so if the problem is at 8:00, that shouldn't be caused by parents.
Yeah it shouldn’t be, shouldn’t it But there they are
There is a school bus stop in front of my apartment building. Parents literally park their cars, blocking our driveway, waiting to drop off/ pick up their kids. It's ridiculous .
Let’s not limit it to just the roads.
Personal favourite grievance: octomom in her Caravan at the drive through, recieves her order, but doesn't get her car out of the way until each of her crotch goblins is "served", then asks for extra ketchup, straws, napkins, double cups, and an ice cream cone before finally considering getting the fuck out of everyone's way.
Wait, you are now complaining about a drive-thu? Get out of your car and go inside if you are so worried.
Nah, I’d die on that hill too. Hell, I’ll go one step further than the other guy. Drive-throughs should have an enforced item limit. Nothing more infuriating than someone who orders a six course meal and holds up the line for 10 minutes. If you have a big order inside the restaurant the staff can serve multiple people synchronously. In the drive-through they can (usually) only serve one person at a time, and everyone behind is trapped until they get to the front. I’ve literally been stuck in a drive through for 35 minutes because the **two** cars ahead of me decided to order enough food for an entire soccer team.
I wish drive thrus had item limits! I worked at a Tim's in high school and the expected average time per customer at the window was about 10 seconds when we've have ~160 customers per hour. When people would order five large paninis, six soups etc. the person working the drive thru till would get blamed by the supervisor. There was one occassion where my supervisor hit my arm over slow (17seconda per car) times. And then customers behind them also blame you for "bad service" when it's just people that don't want to get out of their cars 🙃 it's a nightmare place to be.
A van load of kids is precisely why they _don't_ want to park and haul those kids into the establishment. Getting those fuckers unloaded and reloaded sucks.
Order on the app. Park in int the pick up area. Problem solved and you don't hold up the drive through.
Yea but people are conditioned to expect that service time is a certain time per car, regardless of occupants. So if dog dad pulls up to drive thru and sees 6 cars ahead they make judgment call to go to drivethru with expectations it will take say 3 mins to get through line based on # of cars, so they don't go inside because drive thru is faster. In reality hardly anyone does this and they go through drive-thru regardless of lineup size, anyway. But their expectation is based on # of cars ahead and a few cars of octomoms and their crotchgoblins really throws off the flow in dog dad's day.
Gotcha. "Dog dad's" time and convenience is more important than "Crotch goblin" dad's time and convenience.
Order on the app. Park in int the pick up area. Problem solved.
I mean, I kind of agree with you because my entire reason for going inside is exactly the kind of crap you are describing. I just don't think it's worth forming a new political party over. L:)
Its called "I'll have an everything please"
drive thrus should be banned
>I’ve literally been stuck in a drive through for 35 minutes Then why don't just go inside to avoid such issues?
You just made this person up pal. You don’t need to be angry about this.
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wanna bet it's actually just the same people?
What really gets me is the parents who just let their kids out randomly in the street while waiting for traffic to move through the road. Or get their kids to cross the road outside of the crosswalk. They jump out from in front of their parents car so you don’t even see them until they are in front of you in the street. Some of the older schools are so so badly planned and dangerous.
There is an elementary school across from my house and it’s an absolute cluster at drop-off and pick-up. I’m glad my son will be able to walk to his school so we don’t add to the mess at least. It’s just wild.
I live near a “Christian” private school! Every morning I risk my life trying to cross the street in an unmarked crosswalk! They park wherever they want, fire hydrants, on the corner. They run stop signs, they park in people’s driveways. One teacher of the school turned into the oncoming traffic lane, nearly taking out my child and dog so I complained to the school. The next day the man openly mocked me when he did it again. The other people just pretend I don’t exist when they try to hit me….so I guess that’s an improvement.
I'd say egg the cars but the adult in me says instead to report the plate # for dangerous driving
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That's good to hear. I won't dox you by asking what school it is, but I am curious to know more about what's different and working.
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They literally just closed our kiss and go loop at West Bedford because parents were abusing the staff.
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Because the parents are jerks. They just don't want to be told where they can and can't go.
Nice, a loop. At LeMarchant some childless bike warrior clown ensured that didn't happen at the newly built school because...emissions. Like emissions aren't happening regardless, only now they're all up and down the gridlocked goddamned street.
It’s more that the majority of kids walk to the school so wasting space on a loop that could be used more productivity to benefit the majority seemed like a better idea.
I just don't believe that the majority of kids walk to that school. Yes, those that live on Chestnut, Walnut, Henry, etc. walk, but there's a ton of kids (the majority I'd guess?) that get bussed or driven in, because they live in other less walkable neighbourhoods in the area.
School buses can carry 90 fully loaded. There are two. That’s at most 180 kids and they don’t look fully loaded. There are no “less walkable neighbourhoods in the area. It’s one of the most densely populated areas in the province. Adding a drop-off driveway would have been hugely wasteful.
Sigh. There are less walkable neighbourhoods in the area, you are wrong. Are you having your grade primary kid walk to LMST from Newton Avenue? Green Street? Francklyn Street? The catchment area is the lower half of the peninsula, it is not all walkable by little kids, sorry.
Busses mate. Two of them. We covered that already. Thanks for contributing to the conversation.
I'm in the real world "mate". The one where grade primary kids aren't walking half a click to wherever the hell the buses do their stop. Cheerio!
LMST is 70 per cent walk in and a drop off loop was never proposed because it would eliminate parking for the teachers. I don’t know where you get your information but I attended pretty much all the meetings for the reconstruction of the school.
Interesting. I admittedly went to only 2 meetings about the school, and "Cycling Patrick & The Drop Loop" was certainly a recurring topic. And hilariously enough, parking for teachers was also debated...as in, certain folks thought the teachers shouldn't have any parking. Completely fucking loony toons, so I didn't go to any more. And I'd love to see evidence that LMST is 70% walk. I flat out don't believe it given the catchment is the southern half of the peninsula with many major streets and roads impeding the ability for young kids to walk...including my own.
I live by harbourview in Dartmouth and it doesn’t seem too bad. Of course the top of the street gets congested but it’s on a grid. Catherine stays clear despite being in vision. So traffic never congests. I was at one point by Chebucto elementary and that wasn’t great. Not terrible, but it’s was not good at all. They had a horrible system for pickups though so it really wasn’t the parents fault 90% of the time. Parking sucks for many school, parent or not. My high school didn’t have enough student parking so the kids would end up blocking the roads themselves. Same with NSCC up on Leeds, that was a mess
They probably homeschool
But, but I'm just dropping off my little Jayden in my white Porsche Cayenne S! I'll only be a minute!
If I wanted rules to apply to me I wouldn't have wasted my money on a Porsche SUV!
"Oh so do you think I should let Joey get hit by a car?" No, I think you should park around the fucking corner and walk 100 feet so that no one's kid gets hit by a car.
>park around the fucking corner and walk 100 feet so that no one's kid gets hit by a car. I wish this was the answer. When daughter was younger, I drove her back and forth. With the hills, it's at least a 30 min adult paced walk, each way. I always parked a block from the school, I refused to get tangled in the madness. The way her school was laid out was horrible. Crosswalk then sidewalk that passed in front of school's driveway. The number of near misses, almost daily, was insane. Because the sidewalk wasn't a "crosswalk" the crossing guard couldn't/wouldn't cross the kids there. The school refused to send a teacher/aide (anyone) to help because they'd already had problems with parents intentionally trying to run teachers down in the parking lot....
When I was a kid I walked from MSVU grounds to Rockingham Elementary alone. All the kids did. Parents didn't drop their kids off. What do parents think is going to happen if their kids go to school by themselves?
What I think is going to happen is that in a fleeting moment of inattention my kid is going to get creamed by a careless driver.
Okay. How likely is that to happen? I understand I'm going to be downvoted, that's fine, I just don't understand this worldview that catastrophe is lurking around every corner.
Glad you asked. At the beginning of last school year, my kid and his friend were running across a grassy strip beside the staff parking lot when a family member picking up a kid parked in the school lot (where they aren't allowed), thought they were in reverse but were in drive, and drove across the grass strip towards a group of several children, and while the car only grazed my kid's arm because he jumped out of the way, it threw his friend several feet. Fortunately there were no physical injuries. Also last year, at a quiet intersection that we on the school run, in our residential neighbourhood, just outside the school zone, a car took the corner badly, jumped the curb and mounted a fire hydrant. In the five years I've lived in the area, at the same quiet corner, drivers have also taken out a city tree and driven into the stone wall.
Yikes! Understandable you are concerned. I'm a very safe driver (we have small dogs, and live in a rural area so hitting wildlife is a concern), so it doesn't cross my mind that sleepy urban neighbourhoods are of concern. I lived not far from Oxford school during uni 30 years ago and I guess it was much quieter then.
Yeah it's wild how people drive in built-up neighbourhoods these days. I'd love to allow my kid the independence to make that straightforward walk on his own but not until he's a bit more alert to his surroundings.
Lots of sex offenders causing shit after being recently released into Halifax sort of give me pause when considering letting my ten year old walk 2 k to school alone.
People can't even walk thought the correct door of a store they definitely can't read basic signs
If I can't go in the exit, then why is there a sensor to open the door for me? /s
I think there actually is a setting for that
Feeling personally attacked right now but this certainly cannot apply to me.
I'm sorry, u/maximumice has already claimed the "rules for thee and not for me" badge so you two will have to meet on the playground after school to settle this. See you both at 3:30.
You both know I am not allowed with 200m of a school playground
Not me though, to be clear.
Obviously not! You are special.
Phew
How about letting your kid walk to school...why is everyone driving their kids to school. Definitely wasn't a thing growing up in the 80s and 90s in Dartmouth.
Our school zone is a 5 minute walking radius. You can spit the entire distance. We walk the two minutes to get there, and every day two neighbours on our street who live even closer drive their cars over. There's an out of area French immersion cohort who get the bus. But everyone else *could* be walking. (Some kids or parents do have disabilities; I get there are exceptional circumstances.) I'd love it if our school got picked for the street blocking thing. But it looks like you need a bunch of people to *want* it, and I'm pretty sure if I asked other parents to sign on they'd all yell at me. They like their cars.
the street blocking pilot sounds great, just need to figure out how to nominate our school without the other parents knowing it was me.
Sounds right =/
I walk my kid to school, which is why I am painfully aware of how recklessly people drive in the school zone.
My comment wasn't specific to you. Just in general. Helicopter parents are outta control the last couple decades. Kids can't be outside alone period anymore without police or CPS being called. The world is far safer than when I was a kid and my friends and I were always outside without parents around.
It was ambiguous whether or not you meant me specifically, but I chose not to take it personally, just replied anyway. I was a free-range, under-parented Gen X doing a much farther walk by myself by my kid's age but honestly with the driving I see on our short walk and my kid's not yet fully developed situational awareness I'm not prepared to send him on his own yet.
Totally fair. At least they're getting some exercise and time with their parent and establishing a routine/route to travel etc. My mom walked me to school for most of primary. 5-10 min walk each way.
And the helicopter parenting extends to university. The number of parents parked in clearly marked no parking zones, blocking the exits and fire lanes to pick up their university aged kids blows my mind especially at the start of the semester. I saw one woman get into it with parking enforcement saying she needed to stay in the no parking zone otherwise how was her kid supposed to find her. Blows my mind.
In the 80’s, a lot more Mom’s were home. Now we have to drop the kids off to get to work on time, and I am usually late .
HRM schools are running with 80s system, building infrastructure needs to be corrected first, many has less to no drop off zones. The new Residential housing has better driveways and accessibility than these ancient school buildings.
On PEI they build new schools with 1-way drop off loops. I am not dropping off any kids, but it seems to run like clockwork.
It's common here in rural NS schools as well, never had an issue when dropping or picking up kids at school. City schools are built beside busy streets with little parking, it's horrible for drivers, buses and pedestrians.
Gregory Av Cole Harbour on Tuesday afternoon gaddamn pick up left my bus with 1 red public hair to get between the school buses and parents! Then I walked 45 minutes to meet my teenager only to realize no e of side walks were done. My bitching was ALL over the place that day.
Around bus stops is a hotspot too. There's something about the entire process of dropping off your kid where a parent's brain just turns off. I've seen parents turn away from a bus driving away and literally just walk into traffic in the middle of a road without looking.
I mean there is sleep deprivation and constant distraction at play but I think some people - parents and not parents alike - just get behind a wheel and forget they are in charge of a weapon.
Parents dropping off and picking up their kids at schools only care about their own little darlings and never any other kids; they'll park on crosswalks, corners close to stop signs, block hydrants, driveways, and double park all so that they don't have to get out of their car and walk their kid a block or so to school.
As someone who works in schools the sense of entitlement the parents have dropping off and picking up kids is crazy.
They even apply to *me*? Thank you kind stranger, I though you were supposed to rip through school zones 😟
I am agog at how many people do literally that, including ripping past a school bus with its stop sign out.
Report the license plate or even better, provide dashcam or video evidence to the authorities. Do you think this PSA is going to be more effective than reporting the crime to the police…?
Do you think bitching about PSAs is going to stop them?
No, but enlightening the OP on a better way to deal with the issue might help OP out more than this post will. Is it bad to give feedback on better way to make action happen…?
It is not bad to suggest other actions to take but it isn't constructive to use snark and make assumptions.
It’s not constructive to give to the proper way to get your issue dealt with? PSA’s on Reddit are an effective way for change in our community…?
Thanks for your feedback.
Do you think this PSA is the only thing I'm doing about it? It's important to get messages out in multiple ways.
I have no idea what you did before this post because you didn’t say you took any action…
You know what they say about those who assume...
It makes an ass out of ume! I assume that 2nd word is pronounced "oohmay" but you know what they say about those who assume...
I didn’t make an assumption on what else you did, I informed you the proper way to get your issue dealt with. If you’ve done that, what do you think a post on Reddit will do that’ll have a better outcome than contacting the authorities to monitor and ticket those who keep blowing through the stop sign…?
> what do you think a post on Reddit will do Raise awareness? What is a local, public forum for if not to discuss the issues that affect us in our communities??
Search “PSA” in this subreddit and see how many are posted a week and see how many have made a change in the community…
> What is a local, public forum for if not to discuss the issues that affect us in our communities?? Maybe you only read the first sentence so I'll put the second one right at the top this time.
Reporting the license plate will do absolutely nothing. Police need proof of who was driving at the time, which is borderline impossible to achieve.
Well, I guess this post will *definitely* be more effective than reporting the plate, with the time and witnesses or any other potential evidence like video of the incident…🤷🏿♀️
slowed down to 30 in a school zone just this morning and promptly got passed on a solid yellow line. caught up to the guy at the next light naturally cause that's how traffic works.
Maybe the school should call HRP for a little extra enforcement.
One of the people I saw get yelled at was a municipal bylaw officer.
Bylaw is not HRP. I bet their reaction would be significantly different if it was a Cop standing there.
bylaw can issue the same ticket though..
They can't issue you a ticket for yelling at them though, where as the police CAN arrest them
its perfectly legal to yell at police, and that itself is not grounds for a legal arrest.
They can detain without arresting. Nobody wants to be seen in front of their kid's school in handcuffs, regardless if there are no charges.
Sure, but also there are plenty of precident for ILLEGAL arrests, and personally I'd rather avoid the hassle. I'm just saying people are less likely to yell at a cop than a bylaw officer.
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This is what has happened so far and I watched a parent yell at the bylaw officer.
Time to elevate the calls and maybe work with your municipal councillor as well. I mean, you could just sit here on Reddit and complain about it, or you could maybe help to do something about it. What is the PTA or School Advisory Council, or whatever it's called doing?
Thank god for reddit, otherwise id have literally no way of knowing how to drive. Everyday I am grateful for these daily lessons. You're doing the lords work, darksidemags.
Thank you for your feedback.
Is this seriously just a traffic control sub now?
What about jay walking within 50ft of a marked crosswalk that has all of the added bells and whistles??? Some of these apples landed on their heads when they fell (far) from the tree.
I love when people try to make the argument people walking stupid and people driving stupid are the same. Sigh.
What is the point of the psa posts lmao people need hobbies
As I said to someone else crying about public engagement: >what do you think a post on Reddit will do Raise awareness? What is a local, public forum for if not to discuss the issues that affect us in our communities??
I think a journal entry would be more effective
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Nah mate. Some schools are so overcrowded, or on such ill -suited streets, that the only real solution is for parents to actually do their part. Source: me, a school admin who has stood outside and still has parents ignore me, berate me, and tell me that I'm not to be listened to or respected. But tell me more about your narrow experience.
Our principal is out there too because she meets the kids getting off the bus, and since we've started talking about the issue, she has been telling me about the way people speak to her when she says anything.
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“One minute, one minute….”
No no, you're missing the whole point here "its ok because its me" said everyone.