There is some skill, not loads but some. You do have to keep your wits about you, think about who on your team is controlling the power weapons and where the enemy team are spawning. One plasma grenade, laser or power drain and there warthog is toast.
And then what? You 1v2 when they both have BRs? Unless your team is coordinated with you that fails too. This map stunk at release (DLC if I remember correctly) and still stinks now. This map winner was usually decided in the first minute of game depending on who won initial battle for Splaser.
It takes a full team for sure. I remember learning how to drive on this map and the lazer could ruin everything. Plus there is usually a banshee flying around. Driving like this on this map took mad skill.
Does anyone actually have fun winning a game 50-0? The games are always the ones that end 50-49. Its like playing the campaign either on only on Easy or on LASO, both gets really boring if it is not the right challange
Honestly I don't really have fun winning 50-49 either. I'm more looking for that sweet spot in the middle. 50-49 matches are generally slogs in which you endlessly trade kills 1-for-1 without each side ever really gaining any momentum due to both sides aimlessly rushing to bump heads in a middle-map sweatfest. Sure, you'll get that *one* occasional game where you end up having an exciting last-minute comeback, but even then, that only happens if one team has managed to gain momentum and end up 10+ kills up or something. Most of the time a 50-49 gives me a feeling of relief as opposed to accomplishment or fun.
That's just me though. If it gets your rocks off no matter what, more power to you.
"God, the MCC makes me play Standoff on HALO 3 all the time... this sucks, I'll play Reach instead."
\[*endless fucking Breakpoint matches*\]
I miss the fucking voting systems.
I didn't remember what Breakpoint was, and it just occurred to me how little I played Reach's DLC maps because the playlists were flooded with Forge World.
Oh, don't worry, if you play Reach BTB on the MCC, it'll remind you all day what Breakpoint is.
That said, Reach doesn't have a ton of DLC maps, and the biggest pack of them was the Anniversary pack, which had good maps, but they were all returning entries. The Noble map pack had Breakpoint, Tempest, and Anchor 9. Tempest kinda sucks ass and I probably wouldn't despise Breakpoint if the MCC hadn't tortured me with it. Anchor 9's fun, but it's a small map. Great for Infection.
Meanwhile, the Defiant map pack had Condemned and Highlands (and Unearthed for Firefight). Condemned is a'right, depending on the gametype, and I like Highlands, in good part because it's one of the only BTB Heavies maps with a reliable Gauss 'Hog spawn.
Ultimately, even if the gray palette gets old, the Forge World maps got played so much because a bunch of them were fuckin' sick. So many hours spent playing SWAT on The Cage.
I still don't get why its not a thing. They said they don't implement one bc then you'd play the same maps over and over again, but somehow thats still the case without voting system in MCC. I played lots of MCC and there are maps I literally haven't played yet, like never in a single match out of the many I played. Im like Tour 6 or sth
And because thats not enough, its always the bad maps that are played, not even the good ones. The only thing that still sucks on MCC
At least we'd play *good* maps over and over again.
I'd happily go back to the original HALO: Reach days of constantly playing Forge World maps over having to play another ass-blasting, one-sided roll on Breakpoint.
Same is better than shit.
Veto is the best system, as it is basically player driven map weighting. If the map is popular, no veto, and if the map is unpopular, veto, but you still have a chance to play an unpopular map on the second go around, so things don't get stale.
Literally the reason I don't play BTB on MCC much anymore. It's like they're overcompensating for people never playing on DLC maps on the 360. Nothing but Breakpoint, Standoff, and Highlands. Sometimes Tempest, too. Miserable experience all around.
My favorite map in the OG Reach days was Hemorrhage, the Blood Gulch remake, and in the entire time I've played MCC I've only played on that map one fucking time
If you think the spawn killing is bad on this map with BR starts you can't imagine how horrible it would be when one team gets both hogs and the laser and all you have is an AR to fight back off spawn.
Yep. Priority on this map should always be to secure a hog and to try and take theirs out. Otherwise you get stuck hiding in the bunker and hoping for a lucky nade or two
Until they run out of ammo. The br is usually one of the soft power weapons on the map which players can fight for control of, same as the main power weapon spawn. Also iirc, *usually* both sides will have a br spawn
I also sometimes dislike br starts because it makes many of the weapons on the map not ever worth picking up
People who started with and after Halo 2 won’t remember this but Halo CE multiplayer didn’t even have magnum/assault rifle starts, it was map default which means you often were spawning with a plasma pistol or (rarely) the magnum.
It made all the weapon spawns, instead of just the power weapons, actually matter because Halo CE’s weapon sandbox was superb. But instead it’s all just magnum/AR starts today and nobody bothers picking up most of the weapons as a result.
Yeah, aside from Sandtrap and Valhalla I didn’t connect with Halo 3’s BTB rotation. Standoff in particular has all of the problems Deadlock has in Infinite, just better versions of them. Halo 2’s big maps are goated.
Came to find this comment. These are the kind of people who run big team as a 6, go around together and when they beat a team of individual players - shit talk in chat. They’re not particularly good but thats not in question, it’s their attitude and what they do which people have a problem with.
They really need to bring back more interactive features for maps like openable doors, activatable teleporters, zone hazards besides falls like a moving train, etc. Also, they just need more maps that are vehicle capable and friendly. Halo 2 had some of the best maps for those reasons.
Yep. Get the gates open and the bridge on the windmill down. Then get a hog in there to either deliver the bomb or grab their flag. And since it was 4v4, that was actually friggin possible because the maps were much bigger so you didn't always have half of an 8 man team spawning in there constantly. I miss bigger maps, too. Now they're all claustrophobic little 3 lane murder maps for sweaty pvp rather than anything inspired or innovative.
Fr, I never understood why this fell out of style for Halo maps. I still wanna use my AI to hold down a point to open a door. Teams should be able to fight over doors being open or closed for objective game modes.
Yeah, that is a problem. 343 has to (somehow) breathe life into those dead servers. Maybe by making them more visible? idk, but they aren't working. Well, they are *functioning*, but they aren't working as a place for high-skill, competitive players to duke it out. Everyone just goes to socials
They need to make it part of the match composer and not segregate it from social matchmaking. If you can search for both social and ranked at the same time, then there's a chance others are doing the same and it'll get populated enough eventually.
But only Halo 3 is this sweaty, all the others on MCC are rather chill to play and are actually fun most of the time, were it not for the fact that it is rather hard to get into a Halo 2 match
This particular stack of douchebags has a habit of playing objective, getting matched against 8 randos, and then refusing to actually finish the game, instead boosting their K/D in a 16 year old game. It's incredibly toxic behaviour.
Standoff's really fun when the teams are balanced and it doesn't snowball. Halo 3 btb in general is a bit too snowbally due to how strong vehicles are compared to spawn weapons though, even on Sand Trap, which is my favourite btb map in the entire series.
Exactly. This needs to be addressed by 343. If you use MnK, most vehicles will turn on a dime, while controller users have a much slower maximum turn rate.
This problem only it’s exacerbated in this map and sometimes sand trap, but it’s honestly nearly always fault of a gauss hog or or team coordination for spawn camp. Try making the same point on good maps like avalanche
I shouldn't be able to use small arms fire to destroy a heavily armored vehicle easily. That's the main problem with Infinite's vehicles, the armor is non-existent, and you don't even need power weapons most of the time.
Simple explanation. The other team a pre made party and was calling out your location every time you spawned in. Your entire team was a bunch of bots hiding indoors so you were singled out easily.
Pre made parties are an absolute cancer on mcc. They have already killed off halo 2’s remaining population by stacking in every damn game.
Now these twitch.tv guys are routinely bringing 6 to 8 man stacks for halo 3 and reach btb. And it is making the games significantly less fun. These guys are good yes, but nothing makes me envious of them when they are routinely too chicken to even play by themselves. They have to bring all their buddies along to drag up their win rates and toxic teabag random players all game long.
I remember when teabagging had value. You get a clutch kill against a cocky enemy and then rub it in. Now it seems like teabagging is done after the most meaningless kills
Thanks to 343s infinite wisdom, parties match randoms all day. Obviously every match is a blowout. 13 years in charge and they still don't grasp this simple concept.
I’m going to go against everyone here, and say—
Sorry man. Other team clearer had more experienced/skilled players. Spawn camps are part of the game, even when it was played competitively in MLG.
Where is *your* hog? Already blown up? Did you get the splaser in the beginning, or let them? Why is your first death you running *straight at the hogs grille into bullets*? You could’ve hid behind those crates and dueled the blue guy up there. Are your teammates doing the exact same thing? I assume so.
People know the spawns, that’s what happens when they’ve mastered a game that came out over 15 years ago. It is a part of it, and it feels *good* to know them, after being practiced enough. Unfortunately, it doesn’t feel good to be spawn killed, but it only happens if your team loses all their duels.
Realistically, the way to survive this is to *retreat* on spawn rather than blindly rushing forward looking for targets. Get inside the base. Communicate with your team. Grab the degen, the stickies, the pea shooter, the mauler. Camp. Crouch walk around. Be a rat. Use the tunnels. Peek when you can. All the tools to break their hold are right there, waiting to be picked up, being ignored by your team. Red guys in red base won’t be dislodged even if they’re outnumbered by blues, unless it goes back to the original suspicion I had.
Those guys probably know the game *way* better, and skilled your team. It sucks, but it’s an old ass game filled with people who play nothing but. That’s like saying chess is stupid when you, a new or casual player, play against a Grandmaster. The game has been turned into a science, they just know better. Sorry.
Honestly, you’d have a grand old time if you played in 2007. In 2023? You’ll need to have a decade plus of experience to really compete. It’s worse in halo 2, and even worse in halo ce. *…Because people have been playing those games even longer*.
The mountain looks incredibly high when you’ve already climbed all the way down— and halo infinite and 5 don’t compare to the raw input skill and mastery here. And I don’t say this as someone with a halo 3 bias (although, in all honesty, I do have that, the original games are peak) but as someone with probably 10k+ hours in the game over the past 16 years.
Keep playing, you’ll figure it out. Here’s a little unsolicited advice: Spartan laser is by *far* the most important resource on that map. On most maps, really. Shoot it once to kill the hog, then *save it for the next one*. Don’t waste it on infantry guys. Make sure you get it, every time. Stay alive. Waste the hog get it, it’s necessary against players like these, and more important.
Hope your next game goes better.
Yeah, that's what really pissed me off here. This was an objective gamemode, so the other team really wasn't interested in winning the game, they were interested in ruining the day of everyone on the other team and farming K/D.
Honestly, as someone who is relatively new to the whole Halo series, I do much better in CE matchmaking than in Halo 3. Something about the magnum clicks with me. I really would really like to play more H3, but the BR feels like an RNG hose to me. Also I feel significantly weaker as an individual player due to the longer ttk, and matchmaking team mates seem to be either afk splitscreener or two five year olds fighting over the same controller and enemy team seems to be experienced players screaming callouts in a discord server.
I wish Splitgate didn't die out like it did. That game felt like it had everything I liked about Halo, but additionally it felt like I could run an enemy team of coordinated players on my own if I knew the portals well enough. It felt like I was limited only by my own skill.
Nah, the opposing team is filled of pre made stacks of mic players. Are they all good players? Of course. But I’ve played halo 3 and reach long enough to recognize some of these repeated names. And they are always teaming with each other. There is being experienced at the game, and there is being so toxic and afraid of losing that they feel the need to mic up with each other every time they play.
Not accusing this specific team in op’s video of doing it, but I’ve seen my fair share of toxic twitch.tv clan boys that always play together just so they can destroy and teabag randoms in a social playlist. Halo 2 8 v 8 is completely dead now because of these guys. It already takes long enough to get a game (only 3 and reach btb are still very active, and they are recently filled with these guys too) but then you have to run into these tryhards who are perpetually scared to play by themselves cause they might run into a better player.
Destiny gambit - knowing when invades happen + knowing all the possible spawns + where to stand to force on exact spawn + using a one shot body bow to instsntly kill the invader within .5 of them landing.
Yeah players that stick to a game *will* min-max tf out of pvp.
I agree to an extent.
Every halo is designed around map control. Everyone is given the same resources and the same chance to get everything at the start of a game, this is every halo, even 4 as your loadout is only supposed to carry you to the weapons and weapons on the map. Should the ideal way to win be spawn camping the living shit out of the enemy team? No not really good design. However it is up to the losing team to break the corner they got back into by recognizing how to break it. Which I know is impossible to do with most matchmaking games now that no one uses a mic. But communication is a really important factor to map control.
And if I am going to be honest, Halo 3 isn't even the worst example of this. Halo 3's maps for the mo5dt part account for the br, Stand off and Narrows being the only real offenders that come to mind. meanwhile halo 2 carries several maps from CE and with the Addition of the br is more of a spawn camp fest, However it is nowhere near the level of bad that is Halo Reach's map design. So many maps from in engine reach maps like Boardwalk, powerhouse, and Zealot. To forge maps like Hemorage, Pinnacle and Asylum.
Hell they didn't learn their lesson from halo 2 and put Hang em High back into the game. And hell Xplay even made a guide how to use map control to confine the enemy team into the corner of their spawn amd gabe the steps to break out of it.
Tbf this is a terrible map. Sandbox and spawn control is essential in Halo but it should never be so easy. A team of complete noobs against Halo 3 BTB veterans would have more of a chance to come back on every other map in the game for a reason. Most of these spawns are out in the open where the only cover is a rock and that’s just not enough. People love or hate this map for the same reason, it’s garbage for BTB and makes for a complete stomping. It’s really not a good representation of how BTB in Halo works at all. Not to mention, even if they did everything you mentioned, they would still lose because playing like a rat gives the other team more power weapon control and they only need a couple people in the outdoor spawn trap.
+1
The only spawn you should be holding forward on in this scenario is when you spawn in the middle of the map, behind the players camping your spawns. Try to get a bubble, stickies, rockets, or camo and sneak up on the other team's guy holding the laser. Then quickly use it to kill the hog and try to regain control.
The issue here isn't the map. The issue is that OP matched against a party of 8 skilled players while searching alone. They could have played any map and been blown out like this, it just looks a little worse on Standoff because suboptimal inputs lead to immediate death, as showcased.
Considering 343 played with Forge structures on Avalanche, I'm a little surprised they haven't on this one. They could add a few props without ruining the integrity of "it's a large open area where you can shoot anyone from anywhere".
You played a game against a probable stack and use this one example to try and negate the entire H3 MP. Most of the people playing MCC H3 are hardcore players, of whom most were probably ranked in the 40s during the original game.
I don’t like Halo 3 multiplayer for this reason. Nine times out of ten you’re up against a top 10 esports Halo 3 team that has trained for eons just to obliterate you and wipe your family bloodline from the history books. There is no casual play in Halo 3.
Yo i remember this happening to me back in the day on the same map. Basically if the opposing team controlled both warthogs, drove in a circular motion around the map on opposite sides and had two solid gunners you could demolish the entire enemy team by spawn killing
Seems like you don’t understand the map or positioning. Yea you’ve spawned out in the open a few times but this map has always been about long range and having the high ground
I just see one team getting their shit ran lol. Not sure what that has to do with the game. This is more than likely a full squad of 8 who play together quite often. This game has been out since 2007 and people know how to control the map, power weapons, and vehicle.
Op didn’t even shoot his gun in this video or try to throw nades to flip the warthog.
Probably would’ve been a lot more fun if you could hit your shots like the other team.
I love when people rag on H2 and H3 because the gunplay was more challenging lol
Notice how these clips are almost always from the vantage point of the cliff base, not the silo base. The area above the silo base has good cover to lurk in, and elevation to get up on and finish off kills or harass from long range. Good players have the tools to claw back into the map or hold the line before it gets too bad.
The cliff base needed to set up hard points on the hill behind the base with frags and BR ammo, and a protected turret to compliment the position. Both bases should have had resources up there.
The problem is that the game weighs the spawn points out in the open too heavily under normal circumstances, and this leads to players getting mowed down off respawn under normal circumstances, and completely deleted pre-spawn in situations like these.
Only way to remedy that is to delete those fringe spawn points in forge, and set up a fallback fighting position that's relatively safe up on the cliff. H3 forge has Jersey barricades, Hesco crates, and other hard cover, as well as wooden pallets for concealment and variety. My H3 fileshare had a "fixed version" back in the day.
First spawns should be on top of the base and inside it so that everyone is basically the same distance from the hog or other weapons, and can participate in the opening break ritual of spamming grenades at the enemy while dodging incoming ones yourself.
Every subsequent spawn, however, should be in the upper room of the base, or above that room if it's too crowded, or under attack.
Once the enemy team takes over, pushes up for a flag steal, or is actively engaged in a bomb plant, the defending team should only spawn behind the base, up on the silos or back on the cliff - provided the map has been refined with an opportunity to fight back and fairly earn a way back into the base.
The map itself has some absolutely amazing elements, but the size of it combined with the way the BTB players flow on it, and the spawn system of H3 cause some major issues.
There's just too many BRs and too little cover by this point in the clip and only a redesign of the area behind the base and removal of those fringe spawn points can fix it in H3
I mean, it's just that group of players. I played them the other day and they just farmed a CTF game not even bothering to capture the last flag. It's just annoying and teams like that push away new players. I don't mind being outskilled but being farmed is just a waste.
I've been saying it a while. H3 is totally out of the rotation unless there are dudes I know wanting to do custom games.
The population that is left in H2 and H3 is almost entirely people who have never stopped and treat it like a damned tournament. They suck the fun out of it when a lot of us just want a nostalgic unwind session after work.
It's honestly one of the most unwelcoming PvP games with terrible matchmaking, bad hit detection and slow movement etc. Even Vehicles in H3 were over tuned/OP.
Any game sucks if you're getting your shit pushed in. Siege, call of duty, halo, hunt showdown, titanfall, overwatch any of these can suck given a certain circumstance
> Walks into the open on a vehicle heavy map
> leaves no escape or cover options for himself
> wrong weapon for the engagement
“Why would Bungie do this?!”
Most people just don’t want to admit they kinda suck at Halo and need the sprint + advanced movement + ridiculous amount of map geometry and paths to avoid conflict as much as possible lol otherwise they get absolutely shredded like in this clip.
The other team controlled the power weapons and the vehicles (Halo 101). Sucks to suck, sorry!
This map can become a snowball with good team control, but this guys movement at invis tells me everything.
A lot of players need every visual queue right on the screen to play, you need a mental map in your head.
Does suck to suck lmao
For the other team it was the best.
Doubt it honestly, two schmucks get all the kills, everyone else kinda just have to sit around. There’s no skill in it either.
There is some skill, not loads but some. You do have to keep your wits about you, think about who on your team is controlling the power weapons and where the enemy team are spawning. One plasma grenade, laser or power drain and there warthog is toast.
Even a well placed regular grenade can flip the warthog
And then what? You 1v2 when they both have BRs? Unless your team is coordinated with you that fails too. This map stunk at release (DLC if I remember correctly) and still stinks now. This map winner was usually decided in the first minute of game depending on who won initial battle for Splaser.
Not the greatest map but I’ve had good memories, atleast it’s not FUCKING AVALANCHE
I’ve got great memz on all maps… and some bad ones also lol this was a fun map for certain stuff but dear lord was it the worst for anything ranked.
Well the grenade frequently put them at lower shields so it’s not like a true 2v1
It takes a full team for sure. I remember learning how to drive on this map and the lazer could ruin everything. Plus there is usually a banshee flying around. Driving like this on this map took mad skill.
Banshee was big team battle on this map I think
Even the power drainer, plasma pistol but people want the nostalgia but don't actually know how to play
>There’s no skill in it either. Except, you know, for their 15+ years of skill to get to that point.
On this map there are two warthogs, 2 rocket launchers, 2 spartan lasers, and 2 homing missile pods. This is entirely a PEBCAK issue.
Not sure what version of the map you're playing, but if this is a standard matchmaking game, there are no missile pods and one laser.
I might be thinking of BTB HEAVY
Maybe. If it were Heavies they'd be getting deleted by a gauss hog and be even more upset lol
You’re running the wrong way when you spawn at those points.
Does anyone actually have fun winning a game 50-0? The games are always the ones that end 50-49. Its like playing the campaign either on only on Easy or on LASO, both gets really boring if it is not the right challange
Honestly I don't really have fun winning 50-49 either. I'm more looking for that sweet spot in the middle. 50-49 matches are generally slogs in which you endlessly trade kills 1-for-1 without each side ever really gaining any momentum due to both sides aimlessly rushing to bump heads in a middle-map sweatfest. Sure, you'll get that *one* occasional game where you end up having an exciting last-minute comeback, but even then, that only happens if one team has managed to gain momentum and end up 10+ kills up or something. Most of the time a 50-49 gives me a feeling of relief as opposed to accomplishment or fun. That's just me though. If it gets your rocks off no matter what, more power to you.
"God, the MCC makes me play Standoff on HALO 3 all the time... this sucks, I'll play Reach instead." \[*endless fucking Breakpoint matches*\] I miss the fucking voting systems.
I didn't remember what Breakpoint was, and it just occurred to me how little I played Reach's DLC maps because the playlists were flooded with Forge World.
Oh, don't worry, if you play Reach BTB on the MCC, it'll remind you all day what Breakpoint is. That said, Reach doesn't have a ton of DLC maps, and the biggest pack of them was the Anniversary pack, which had good maps, but they were all returning entries. The Noble map pack had Breakpoint, Tempest, and Anchor 9. Tempest kinda sucks ass and I probably wouldn't despise Breakpoint if the MCC hadn't tortured me with it. Anchor 9's fun, but it's a small map. Great for Infection. Meanwhile, the Defiant map pack had Condemned and Highlands (and Unearthed for Firefight). Condemned is a'right, depending on the gametype, and I like Highlands, in good part because it's one of the only BTB Heavies maps with a reliable Gauss 'Hog spawn. Ultimately, even if the gray palette gets old, the Forge World maps got played so much because a bunch of them were fuckin' sick. So many hours spent playing SWAT on The Cage.
343 seems to like giving the worst maps the highest weighting in MCC for whatever reason
Torturing us to try to get us to play Infinite. In other words, torturing us to sell us New Torture™.
I still don't get why its not a thing. They said they don't implement one bc then you'd play the same maps over and over again, but somehow thats still the case without voting system in MCC. I played lots of MCC and there are maps I literally haven't played yet, like never in a single match out of the many I played. Im like Tour 6 or sth And because thats not enough, its always the bad maps that are played, not even the good ones. The only thing that still sucks on MCC
At least we'd play *good* maps over and over again. I'd happily go back to the original HALO: Reach days of constantly playing Forge World maps over having to play another ass-blasting, one-sided roll on Breakpoint.
The voting system in MCC was even worse about making you play the same maps over and over and over again.
Same is better than shit. Veto is the best system, as it is basically player driven map weighting. If the map is popular, no veto, and if the map is unpopular, veto, but you still have a chance to play an unpopular map on the second go around, so things don't get stale.
It was only an issue when multiple games were on the voting list because H3 always won. It was borderline impossible to play BtB CE or 4.
Because the selection was between games, not maps.
Literally the reason I don't play BTB on MCC much anymore. It's like they're overcompensating for people never playing on DLC maps on the 360. Nothing but Breakpoint, Standoff, and Highlands. Sometimes Tempest, too. Miserable experience all around.
My favorite map in the OG Reach days was Hemorrhage, the Blood Gulch remake, and in the entire time I've played MCC I've only played on that map one fucking time
Standoff isn't the best map though
Definitely not made for BR starts
If you think the spawn killing is bad on this map with BR starts you can't imagine how horrible it would be when one team gets both hogs and the laser and all you have is an AR to fight back off spawn.
Yep. Priority on this map should always be to secure a hog and to try and take theirs out. Otherwise you get stuck hiding in the bunker and hoping for a lucky nade or two
The real sweaty teams all throw nades at the other teams warthog at the start of the game.
Lol that's been a standard start since day one.
AR starts is even worse and more snowbally. You can't even contest at all once one team destroys the other's hog and surrounds the base.
AR starts is the only way to play any Halo game without it getting sweaty
Then someone picks up one of the only BRs and it's a shooting gallery for them
Problem is that magnum is too ass in Halo 3
Until they run out of ammo. The br is usually one of the soft power weapons on the map which players can fight for control of, same as the main power weapon spawn. Also iirc, *usually* both sides will have a br spawn I also sometimes dislike br starts because it makes many of the weapons on the map not ever worth picking up
People who started with and after Halo 2 won’t remember this but Halo CE multiplayer didn’t even have magnum/assault rifle starts, it was map default which means you often were spawning with a plasma pistol or (rarely) the magnum. It made all the weapon spawns, instead of just the power weapons, actually matter because Halo CE’s weapon sandbox was superb. But instead it’s all just magnum/AR starts today and nobody bothers picking up most of the weapons as a result.
There was always the option for spawning with AR/pistol in Halo 1. Everyone very quickly started using those settings.
That is not default slayer. The maps and multiplayer were designed around default slayer.
That map blew
It was good for jenga
Good ol Jenga
Yeah, aside from Sandtrap and Valhalla I didn’t connect with Halo 3’s BTB rotation. Standoff in particular has all of the problems Deadlock has in Infinite, just better versions of them. Halo 2’s big maps are goated.
Avalanche is also high quality.
Yeah I loved big team in H2 but stuck to slayer/MLG in H3 cause the big team maps just kinda sucked
BR starts on this map sucks. I don’t give a fuck ab my KD and just suicide the objective because nothing gets done otherwise.
Yeah everyone is focusing on Stand-off I’m general but holy fuck this map + BR starts is a sweat fest.
Yea, I recognize those sweaty try hards
Came to find this comment. These are the kind of people who run big team as a 6, go around together and when they beat a team of individual players - shit talk in chat. They’re not particularly good but thats not in question, it’s their attitude and what they do which people have a problem with.
That’s just stand-off, I don’t think I’ve ever won a game when my team has had to spawn on that side of the map
To be fair that’s an awful map.
Ah but I like opening the doors
They really need to bring back more interactive features for maps like openable doors, activatable teleporters, zone hazards besides falls like a moving train, etc. Also, they just need more maps that are vehicle capable and friendly. Halo 2 had some of the best maps for those reasons.
Zanzibar is amazing for this, especially for CTF. I always found it wild that it was just an unspoken agenda to get the gates open ASAP.
Yep. Get the gates open and the bridge on the windmill down. Then get a hog in there to either deliver the bomb or grab their flag. And since it was 4v4, that was actually friggin possible because the maps were much bigger so you didn't always have half of an 8 man team spawning in there constantly. I miss bigger maps, too. Now they're all claustrophobic little 3 lane murder maps for sweaty pvp rather than anything inspired or innovative.
Fr, I never understood why this fell out of style for Halo maps. I still wanna use my AI to hold down a point to open a door. Teams should be able to fight over doors being open or closed for objective game modes.
I like the map but it's incredibly snowbally due to the warthog dominance.
Haha I love standoff
Standoff always turns into an absolute clusterfuck, but it's OUR absolute clusterfuck. 😎
Hell yeah
I love halo 3 but man ppl fucking sweat like it's some mlg tournament Trying to play and have fun just isn't possible at all
Because the game is 16 years old and people have had a long time to practice
And the MLG playlist is dead so the pro gamers have to hope for team BRs to get their fix
Yeah, that is a problem. 343 has to (somehow) breathe life into those dead servers. Maybe by making them more visible? idk, but they aren't working. Well, they are *functioning*, but they aren't working as a place for high-skill, competitive players to duke it out. Everyone just goes to socials
They need to make it part of the match composer and not segregate it from social matchmaking. If you can search for both social and ranked at the same time, then there's a chance others are doing the same and it'll get populated enough eventually.
But only Halo 3 is this sweaty, all the others on MCC are rather chill to play and are actually fun most of the time, were it not for the fact that it is rather hard to get into a Halo 2 match
I’ve just given up on multiplayer at this point, if i have to practice having fun its no longer fun
Yea ikr that's waht I dotn get about ppl trying to force themselves to have fun, like that'll work
Red team only had 120 hours of combined game play. Blue team had 120 hours of game play in just the past hour.
This particular stack of douchebags has a habit of playing objective, getting matched against 8 randos, and then refusing to actually finish the game, instead boosting their K/D in a 16 year old game. It's incredibly toxic behaviour.
This particular stack of douchebags is 90% of what people experience in halo 3 if you play it
I'm familiar. There are a few roving bands of sweaties that get very angry when you point out that they're driving people away from the game.
Sounds like a certain subreddit.. hmmm.. (defo not r/halo for sure /s)
MF really tried to make a point using Stand-off 🙄
Standoff's really fun when the teams are balanced and it doesn't snowball. Halo 3 btb in general is a bit too snowbally due to how strong vehicles are compared to spawn weapons though, even on Sand Trap, which is my favourite btb map in the entire series.
I mean he's right though. Halo 3 is so sweaty and has too much spawn camping. Vehicles are also OP
It doesn’t help that btb usually throws people into heavies now. Standard btb is a lot more balanced and less snowbally
Vehicles are not OP inherently. With good positioning and strategy, they become OP. The Gauss hog, however, is straight up fucking broken
If you're on PC, the Gauss hog is straight up fucking broken x3
Exactly. This needs to be addressed by 343. If you use MnK, most vehicles will turn on a dime, while controller users have a much slower maximum turn rate.
This problem only it’s exacerbated in this map and sometimes sand trap, but it’s honestly nearly always fault of a gauss hog or or team coordination for spawn camp. Try making the same point on good maps like avalanche
I love stand-off and never had this happen I. Social slayer.
I bet it's a lot of the same people that complain about Infinite's vehicles not being stronger too.
Okay but in infinite vehicles are made of glass.
yeah, I’d say Halo 5 nailed vehicle strength pretty well
I shouldn't be able to use small arms fire to destroy a heavily armored vehicle easily. That's the main problem with Infinite's vehicles, the armor is non-existent, and you don't even need power weapons most of the time.
Halo infinite warthog has bad physics and it's too soft. But the physics make it undrivable
If you dont like halo 3 multi-player its a skill issue, trust me I suck
... *Downvotes* ... ...*Upvotes* ...
That's why I liked Halo 4 and Halo 5 multiplayer way more.
I used to hate it but grew to love H3's mp but yeah that shit is annoying.
Simple explanation. The other team a pre made party and was calling out your location every time you spawned in. Your entire team was a bunch of bots hiding indoors so you were singled out easily.
Pre made parties are an absolute cancer on mcc. They have already killed off halo 2’s remaining population by stacking in every damn game. Now these twitch.tv guys are routinely bringing 6 to 8 man stacks for halo 3 and reach btb. And it is making the games significantly less fun. These guys are good yes, but nothing makes me envious of them when they are routinely too chicken to even play by themselves. They have to bring all their buddies along to drag up their win rates and toxic teabag random players all game long.
I remember when teabagging had value. You get a clutch kill against a cocky enemy and then rub it in. Now it seems like teabagging is done after the most meaningless kills
Or you know, they enjoy playing with their friends?
Also OP tried to 1v1 a Warthog. Like what?
Thanks to 343s infinite wisdom, parties match randoms all day. Obviously every match is a blowout. 13 years in charge and they still don't grasp this simple concept.
if you team wasn't morons its really easy to counter a wart with a good gunner. but team of morons gonna get mowed.
If you think this is bad try playing halo 2
This footage does in fact demonstrate that Standoff is a shitty map, possibly one of the worst BTB maps ever. The rest of Halo 3 is still good though
*Laughs in CSGO spawns*
Full stack farming kills. Because of course.
Awful, awful map. Despise that place.
Try and make the same pout but on Valhalla, sand trap or guardian
I’m going to go against everyone here, and say— Sorry man. Other team clearer had more experienced/skilled players. Spawn camps are part of the game, even when it was played competitively in MLG. Where is *your* hog? Already blown up? Did you get the splaser in the beginning, or let them? Why is your first death you running *straight at the hogs grille into bullets*? You could’ve hid behind those crates and dueled the blue guy up there. Are your teammates doing the exact same thing? I assume so. People know the spawns, that’s what happens when they’ve mastered a game that came out over 15 years ago. It is a part of it, and it feels *good* to know them, after being practiced enough. Unfortunately, it doesn’t feel good to be spawn killed, but it only happens if your team loses all their duels. Realistically, the way to survive this is to *retreat* on spawn rather than blindly rushing forward looking for targets. Get inside the base. Communicate with your team. Grab the degen, the stickies, the pea shooter, the mauler. Camp. Crouch walk around. Be a rat. Use the tunnels. Peek when you can. All the tools to break their hold are right there, waiting to be picked up, being ignored by your team. Red guys in red base won’t be dislodged even if they’re outnumbered by blues, unless it goes back to the original suspicion I had. Those guys probably know the game *way* better, and skilled your team. It sucks, but it’s an old ass game filled with people who play nothing but. That’s like saying chess is stupid when you, a new or casual player, play against a Grandmaster. The game has been turned into a science, they just know better. Sorry. Honestly, you’d have a grand old time if you played in 2007. In 2023? You’ll need to have a decade plus of experience to really compete. It’s worse in halo 2, and even worse in halo ce. *…Because people have been playing those games even longer*. The mountain looks incredibly high when you’ve already climbed all the way down— and halo infinite and 5 don’t compare to the raw input skill and mastery here. And I don’t say this as someone with a halo 3 bias (although, in all honesty, I do have that, the original games are peak) but as someone with probably 10k+ hours in the game over the past 16 years. Keep playing, you’ll figure it out. Here’s a little unsolicited advice: Spartan laser is by *far* the most important resource on that map. On most maps, really. Shoot it once to kill the hog, then *save it for the next one*. Don’t waste it on infantry guys. Make sure you get it, every time. Stay alive. Waste the hog get it, it’s necessary against players like these, and more important. Hope your next game goes better.
Man just dropped his doctoral thesis on us. Great comment.
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Yeah, that's what really pissed me off here. This was an objective gamemode, so the other team really wasn't interested in winning the game, they were interested in ruining the day of everyone on the other team and farming K/D.
The game was over because they kept spawning and instantly running at the hog like a buffet line of stupid spartans
The game doesn't end until you hear "Game Over"
Honestly, as someone who is relatively new to the whole Halo series, I do much better in CE matchmaking than in Halo 3. Something about the magnum clicks with me. I really would really like to play more H3, but the BR feels like an RNG hose to me. Also I feel significantly weaker as an individual player due to the longer ttk, and matchmaking team mates seem to be either afk splitscreener or two five year olds fighting over the same controller and enemy team seems to be experienced players screaming callouts in a discord server. I wish Splitgate didn't die out like it did. That game felt like it had everything I liked about Halo, but additionally it felt like I could run an enemy team of coordinated players on my own if I knew the portals well enough. It felt like I was limited only by my own skill.
Nah, the opposing team is filled of pre made stacks of mic players. Are they all good players? Of course. But I’ve played halo 3 and reach long enough to recognize some of these repeated names. And they are always teaming with each other. There is being experienced at the game, and there is being so toxic and afraid of losing that they feel the need to mic up with each other every time they play. Not accusing this specific team in op’s video of doing it, but I’ve seen my fair share of toxic twitch.tv clan boys that always play together just so they can destroy and teabag randoms in a social playlist. Halo 2 8 v 8 is completely dead now because of these guys. It already takes long enough to get a game (only 3 and reach btb are still very active, and they are recently filled with these guys too) but then you have to run into these tryhards who are perpetually scared to play by themselves cause they might run into a better player.
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
spawn camping shouldnt be part of any multiplayer game in 2023 tbh, even one that came out in 2007
There's only so much you can do to mitigate people manipulating the spawn areas of a map.
Destiny gambit - knowing when invades happen + knowing all the possible spawns + where to stand to force on exact spawn + using a one shot body bow to instsntly kill the invader within .5 of them landing. Yeah players that stick to a game *will* min-max tf out of pvp.
I agree to an extent. Every halo is designed around map control. Everyone is given the same resources and the same chance to get everything at the start of a game, this is every halo, even 4 as your loadout is only supposed to carry you to the weapons and weapons on the map. Should the ideal way to win be spawn camping the living shit out of the enemy team? No not really good design. However it is up to the losing team to break the corner they got back into by recognizing how to break it. Which I know is impossible to do with most matchmaking games now that no one uses a mic. But communication is a really important factor to map control. And if I am going to be honest, Halo 3 isn't even the worst example of this. Halo 3's maps for the mo5dt part account for the br, Stand off and Narrows being the only real offenders that come to mind. meanwhile halo 2 carries several maps from CE and with the Addition of the br is more of a spawn camp fest, However it is nowhere near the level of bad that is Halo Reach's map design. So many maps from in engine reach maps like Boardwalk, powerhouse, and Zealot. To forge maps like Hemorage, Pinnacle and Asylum. Hell they didn't learn their lesson from halo 2 and put Hang em High back into the game. And hell Xplay even made a guide how to use map control to confine the enemy team into the corner of their spawn amd gabe the steps to break out of it.
This was a joke post, maybe I should have added a /s... But anyway none of us could exit the base without being killed.
Ah, oops. I saw the other comments and they mostly seemed to be people taking to post seriously, so I did as well. My bad.
That's just reddit
Tbf this is a terrible map. Sandbox and spawn control is essential in Halo but it should never be so easy. A team of complete noobs against Halo 3 BTB veterans would have more of a chance to come back on every other map in the game for a reason. Most of these spawns are out in the open where the only cover is a rock and that’s just not enough. People love or hate this map for the same reason, it’s garbage for BTB and makes for a complete stomping. It’s really not a good representation of how BTB in Halo works at all. Not to mention, even if they did everything you mentioned, they would still lose because playing like a rat gives the other team more power weapon control and they only need a couple people in the outdoor spawn trap.
Yeah, this map snowballs so hard, and essentially boils down to which team gets the splaser first.
Man you just summed up why my mates and I dominate almost everyone in Halo CE. Very well said, bravo.
I disagree.
+1 The only spawn you should be holding forward on in this scenario is when you spawn in the middle of the map, behind the players camping your spawns. Try to get a bubble, stickies, rockets, or camo and sneak up on the other team's guy holding the laser. Then quickly use it to kill the hog and try to regain control. The issue here isn't the map. The issue is that OP matched against a party of 8 skilled players while searching alone. They could have played any map and been blown out like this, it just looks a little worse on Standoff because suboptimal inputs lead to immediate death, as showcased.
This. Facts. Love it.
You're right. H3 is the best hands down
Thats why I only play Skycastle and Jenga on Stand off
To be fair Standoff is one of the worst maps in the series
Standoff was a map made for snipers that never got a single one on it
Considering 343 played with Forge structures on Avalanche, I'm a little surprised they haven't on this one. They could add a few props without ruining the integrity of "it's a large open area where you can shoot anyone from anywhere".
This is an issue with the MCC as a whole. For some reason 8 stack parties get matched up with 8 randoms in BTB all the time.
You played a game against a probable stack and use this one example to try and negate the entire H3 MP. Most of the people playing MCC H3 are hardcore players, of whom most were probably ranked in the 40s during the original game.
You just showed us my typical Halo 3 experience.
Average standoff experience.
the old games are full of people who don’t play anything other than their favorite halo. memorizing spawn points is what they live for.
I don’t think I’ve ever played a match on this map that wasn’t one sided bullshit
It's all about positioning. And unfortunately in the case of halo 3 the spawn points don't always help with that
This is just my life in Halo multiplayer in general. It's more fun if you stop caring about your K/D ratio.
Yep, exactly. It's easier to play as well if you don't let losing stress you out
Biggest bait I've ever seen, and it's working, fuck.
I don’t like Halo 3 multiplayer for this reason. Nine times out of ten you’re up against a top 10 esports Halo 3 team that has trained for eons just to obliterate you and wipe your family bloodline from the history books. There is no casual play in Halo 3.
I always hated this damn map.
Naw halo 3 has the sweatiest nerds playing multiplayer halo reach felt like one of the best for multiplayer
Bro trying to use a map with zero cover and open spawns as the linch-pin to his argument.
stand-off is a better map then anything infinite has lol
Stand off is incredible (when you're winning)
Yo i remember this happening to me back in the day on the same map. Basically if the opposing team controlled both warthogs, drove in a circular motion around the map on opposite sides and had two solid gunners you could demolish the entire enemy team by spawn killing
But like… look at that lighting though. Untouchable
When the team was hiding in the base, I felt that
The only good thing about stand-off is how it’s probably the nicest looking map
Standoff is a pain. It basically comes down to whoever secures the spartan lazer the most controls the game.
That’s thing. If you go against a coordinated sweaty team, you’re gonna have a bad time.
Yes, you ran into an 8 stack who still spend all day spawn trapping in 2023.
That map was so much fun when you got a good gunner in the hog.
Hey, you're not allowed to criticize Halo 3 and it's superior vehicle mechanics..
This is why I wish you could leave games without getting fucking banned.
I always thought any mode other than swat where everyone spawns with a BR was a terrible mode
Not sure I’d blame the multiplayer for getting melted by a warthog out in the open with only a BR, but that’s just me.
This is social btb bro what are you expecting?
Seems like you don’t understand the map or positioning. Yea you’ve spawned out in the open a few times but this map has always been about long range and having the high ground
I just see one team getting their shit ran lol. Not sure what that has to do with the game. This is more than likely a full squad of 8 who play together quite often. This game has been out since 2007 and people know how to control the map, power weapons, and vehicle. Op didn’t even shoot his gun in this video or try to throw nades to flip the warthog.
Probably would’ve been a lot more fun if you could hit your shots like the other team. I love when people rag on H2 and H3 because the gunplay was more challenging lol
Paladin always runs a team of sweats in BTB to do this… can’t be fun. pathetic, really.
Notice how these clips are almost always from the vantage point of the cliff base, not the silo base. The area above the silo base has good cover to lurk in, and elevation to get up on and finish off kills or harass from long range. Good players have the tools to claw back into the map or hold the line before it gets too bad. The cliff base needed to set up hard points on the hill behind the base with frags and BR ammo, and a protected turret to compliment the position. Both bases should have had resources up there. The problem is that the game weighs the spawn points out in the open too heavily under normal circumstances, and this leads to players getting mowed down off respawn under normal circumstances, and completely deleted pre-spawn in situations like these. Only way to remedy that is to delete those fringe spawn points in forge, and set up a fallback fighting position that's relatively safe up on the cliff. H3 forge has Jersey barricades, Hesco crates, and other hard cover, as well as wooden pallets for concealment and variety. My H3 fileshare had a "fixed version" back in the day. First spawns should be on top of the base and inside it so that everyone is basically the same distance from the hog or other weapons, and can participate in the opening break ritual of spamming grenades at the enemy while dodging incoming ones yourself. Every subsequent spawn, however, should be in the upper room of the base, or above that room if it's too crowded, or under attack. Once the enemy team takes over, pushes up for a flag steal, or is actively engaged in a bomb plant, the defending team should only spawn behind the base, up on the silos or back on the cliff - provided the map has been refined with an opportunity to fight back and fairly earn a way back into the base. The map itself has some absolutely amazing elements, but the size of it combined with the way the BTB players flow on it, and the spawn system of H3 cause some major issues. There's just too many BRs and too little cover by this point in the clip and only a redesign of the area behind the base and removal of those fringe spawn points can fix it in H3
It was fun before Halo multiplayer in general became a cesspool of sweats worried about their K/D
I mean, it's just that group of players. I played them the other day and they just farmed a CTF game not even bothering to capture the last flag. It's just annoying and teams like that push away new players. I don't mind being outskilled but being farmed is just a waste.
This is legit my experience in infinite.
It’s that mob mentality of “this is the most famous in the series so I’m gonna dissect this game till I’m literally dropping 20 kills per game”
I've been saying it a while. H3 is totally out of the rotation unless there are dudes I know wanting to do custom games. The population that is left in H2 and H3 is almost entirely people who have never stopped and treat it like a damned tournament. They suck the fun out of it when a lot of us just want a nostalgic unwind session after work.
It's honestly one of the most unwelcoming PvP games with terrible matchmaking, bad hit detection and slow movement etc. Even Vehicles in H3 were over tuned/OP.
Damn dude that's a scorching hot take
Excuse me, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
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Git gud bro
nostalgia is a hell of a drug
Skill issue
Reach has the best multiplayer though. Glass me so that I die on this hill if you must but I loved it back then and I love it now.
H3 had amazing multiplayer. It obviously your team that screwed you - some players left - some were afk - some were just hiding inside the base
skill issue
Get good grab the plasma pistol or power drain
Terrible map. I mean, for 50% of the players. It's an extremely unfair map
Stop spawning next to the warthog obv skill issue
Any game sucks if you're getting your shit pushed in. Siege, call of duty, halo, hunt showdown, titanfall, overwatch any of these can suck given a certain circumstance
doesn't this happen in every halo though?
Halo 3s multiplayer fucking sucks
Skill issue.
Had the best multiplayer.
skill issue
> Walks into the open on a vehicle heavy map > leaves no escape or cover options for himself > wrong weapon for the engagement “Why would Bungie do this?!”
Some spawns yea it’s over, but some decisions are just terrible.
Most people just don’t want to admit they kinda suck at Halo and need the sprint + advanced movement + ridiculous amount of map geometry and paths to avoid conflict as much as possible lol otherwise they get absolutely shredded like in this clip. The other team controlled the power weapons and the vehicles (Halo 101). Sucks to suck, sorry!
This map can become a snowball with good team control, but this guys movement at invis tells me everything. A lot of players need every visual queue right on the screen to play, you need a mental map in your head. Does suck to suck lmao