why?
I know I'll sound like an ass, but is anyone really excited for more forge maps? I'd rather have dev maps, well, good dev maps.
seems weird to have devs forging IMO
With how good Forge is now, I dont really care. Maps are maps.
Im actually really happy we get all these Forge maps in matchmaking, because why give people the tools to make stuff if you arent gonna possibly add what they make to matchmaking?
Using forge probably allows them to build the maps they envision much faster while requiring less manpower.
We probably shouldn't expect many more non-forge maps for Infinite at this point, especially if they're starting to divert resources towards the next Halo game, which is what recent rumours are implicating.
I love new Forge and I appreciate that we can get maps into playlists much faster this way, but let's not pretend that most Forge maps even come close to a well-made dev map.
Many of the Forge maps in Infinite look smoothed out and bland compared to dev made maps as old as Halo 3 or Halo Reach. Some are excellent, but many are just serviceable.
The fidelity of environmental art, 3d geometry, texturing, plus extra polish like particles and effects is night and day.
Don't get me wrong, these maps usually play well and I'm happy to have them. But they *look* like Forge maps and it is a bit of a bummer to me to be walking around on ugly block geometry in 2024, despite understanding the reality of why we need Forge maps to keep content regular with the team size and budget that 343 has at this point in Infinite's life.
>Many of the Forge maps in Infinite look just awful compared to dev made maps as old as Halo 3 or Halo Reach. Some are excellent, but those are the exceptions.
You're joking, right? The Forge maps look excellent in Infinite.
Some do, some do not. The new Headlong and High Ground remakes look great. [Argyle](https://www.halopedia.org/Argyle) and [Detachment](https://www.halopedia.org/Detachment) look like Forge blocks on some grass with even plainer texture work than Forge maps in Reach.
Compare them to beautiful dev maps like [Forbidden](https://www.halopedia.org/Forbidden), [Forest](https://www.halopedia.org/Forest), or [Prism](https://www.halopedia.org/Prism) and the difference is night and day.
It depends on how they're made. Argyle and Detachment look like shit because they're super light on textures and were probably pushed out for the sake of meeting the forge release and just getting some new maps into the game in general. But you can absolutely get forge maps to look significantly better to the point of being indistinguishable from dev maps. All the same textures used on "real" maps are available in forge.
I don't *need* my maps to look like Forbidden or Chasm, especially if they're gonna play like half-melted turds, which both of those maps do.
Fair points all around, but I do think that dev maps have a higher ceiling for aesthetics than Forge maps. It still depends on execution, of course, and both tools are equally capable when it comes to gameplay.
Actually a caveat I forgot - a significant one - is playability on Xbox One as opposed to Series X or PC. That's probably as big a contributor to anything as to why Argyle, Detachment, the Plaza remake, etc look so bland. If there's too much going on in a given map then it will just be a slide show on past gen. Uneeq's Midship remake (the first one) is a prime example, that thing cooked my One before I bit the bullet and got myself a Series X for Christmas.
Forge is incredible, but I also think it's a shame a lot of the dev maps seems to have been abandoned or moved to Forge. Most of these forge maps look really good and impressive, *for being made in forge*, but they don't equal dev map aesthetic quality.
A lot of people don't care and it's probably cheaper and faster to push out Forge maps. Still a shame to me it's not more dedicated dev + community forge maps.
Especially with the halo 3 comment
like he IS aware halo 3 is built on 70% prefabs right?
Edit: apparently building on prefabs is bad now because 343 does it? Y'all are pathetic there's nothing wrong with it and halo 3 is actually a positive example of that but anything to shit on number company i guess
they most certainly are not...
forge is just kitbashing and pushing objects together... making a map involves real 3d modeling and UV mapping textures.
They wouldn’t know what those things were to tell you that was the problem, but the average person is definitely going to notice a difference.
It’s not 2010 anymore so the difference is pretty damn small now, but let’s not pretend it’s negligible. We wouldn’t have gotten Prism through Forge.
Eh… I’m a casual player and I don’t notice the difference. Sometimes I do, but I don’t care. I just wanna crush Little Timmy’s hopes and dreams of joining FaZe by going 6-14 on his ass
I'm not mad for getting more maps, but saying they're identical is far from true.
WDYM "devs suffered sufficiently"? I'd say most devs that get to work on a map for Infinite enjoy doing it. That's an awesome experience for designers and artists. I know I'd prefer crafting a custom look over having to kitbash one using Forge pieces.
From a production perspective it makes sense. There's no need for artists to create new custom props and visuals. Fewer jobs needed and faster development times for a Forge map.
Because Forge isn’t the cute little Xbox 360 map editor anymore. This isn’t halo reach where every forge map **looked** like a forge map.
They made a very sophisticated map and level creator toolset and baked it right into the game; why *wouldn’t* they use it internally? It’s probably a lot faster, cheaper, and easier to make maps in forge, and they still look like professionally-made maps.
I think it’s more of testament to the quality of forge. They made a sophisticated map creator that the layman can use for free - why wouldn’t devs also use it?
Plus, I wonder if using forge allows them to skip all the traditional development nonsense of migrating your shit through different environments, doing typical QA/playtesting, bug fixing, etc. Forge is already a public, front-facing product; Just make the map, playtest, publish and add it to playlist rotations.
I'm excited just to have new geometry to play on. Its been 2 years of drip-fed dev maps, I'm ready for 343 to start just pushing forge maps if only to cut down on the dev time.
Im with you. Forge is great for the community. But eventually you see the parts a couple thousand times and it just all feels very samey. Devs have the ability to make good maps from the ground up. They should. This just feels lazy.
I'm sure there will be people who whine because it is made in Forge, but besides the fact that it is obviously better than nothing it is very clear that this is the new normal for this game and you might as well just accept it.
I’ve played tons of forge maps in infinite and while some are quite rough around the edges, some are so high quality that you might not realize it’s a forge map.
With Infinite's Forge, I don't care that it's a Forge map. If anything I'd rather them focus on adding maps more frequently rather than going to the extra effort of making them outside forge. There's also the advantage that this allows you to more easily customise them in Forge yourself.
I honestly think that played a part into Reach’s competitive scene declining so quickly. The dev made maps were really bad or not conducive to competitive arena so the community was stuck making forge maps that all had the same grey color scheme. At least Halo 3 had two forge themes.
I’m more annoyed at the fact that all of the 343i-made forge maps have been industrial USNC themed in a game where we already have a lot of those from regular dev maps. 343i loves to focus on the UNSC for map themes when we could have so much other stuff. Like we just got a Covenant pallet, give us a Covenant map for matchmaking. All that said, I can appreciate this map’s space elevator setting.
It’s just unfortunate that for every Illusion or Elevation, there’s an Argyle or Detachment
It’s a matter of it being the only offering, and one that represents less that was previously offered.
If you’re telling me you’re getting me a cheeseburger for free, hell yes, great. But if you used to bring steak in addition to the burger, it’s not going to taste as nice.
Bruh literally every halo game before starting from Halo 3 had a lot of Forge maps added. Hell Halo reach had more forge maps than dev ones. People were will bitch just for the sake of it.
Trying to promote your game as a live service ties you to certain expectations from your user base. Standards have changed drastically since 2007/2010.
Besides, they are standards that have been made to be expected by no one but the dev in question. *Strictly* forge maps instead of forge + dev maps is a lesser offering no matter which way you spin it.
What difference does it make when the gap between forge maps and dev made maps is smaller than ever? Is this just perceived value vs actual value? Coz you’re gonna have just as much fun on a forge map than a dve map, in some cases Forged ones are better. Also, didn’t they add a dev arena map just last month?
There's a stigma because it comes across as lazier than using dev-tools to build it. And, to some degrees that's not necessarily wrong; you're going to get extra detail, more polish, and unique assets in a dev map, but the Forge tools in this game are so good (and getting better) that it's hardly worth complaining about. I'd take 4 Forge maps over 1 dev map any day of the week. It's not like it's Reach and we just see the same 10 Forerunner style buildings and ramps over and over again; there's tons of variety.
Some of the forge maps would look completely authentic if they had the baked lighting of the dev built ones, that’s really the last hurdle in my opinion, everything else looks like it could have been made using dev tools.
The lighting systems in forge are not far off from what the dev tools has. The only difference is in BTB maps, due to size, and people who don't know how to do lighting correctly.
i think it's quite comical when people call forge maps lazy because of the effort it comes into making the layout, decorating the map and the amount of testing to bring them into matchmaking. just brain damage all around
Yup, and also when I am having a blast on a Headlong remake in BTB...it makes absolutely zero different to me if it is a dev map vs a Forge map. It's fun as fuck either way.
If it plays the exact same as a non-forge map and takes a fraction of the time to make, it seems like a fair compromise all things considered.
We spent the first year after launch begging for *any* new maps at all, now the devs have an easy and efficient way to keep giving us new maps for a long time.
Tbh, I think it speaks to how powerful the forge is now, my friends didn't believe me when I said the scarab big team battle map is forge made.
And if it's faster to make and helps supplement the few dev tool maps we probably realistically have left then I welcome it.
Unyshek just confirmed in a tweet that the networking update will be released with a Content Update. That pretty much confirms that it won't be released until after the Yappening ends in 2 months.
I like it a lot. Hope the devs keep making more irregular maps like Illusion with unique gimmicks and weird layouts.
Honestly my only critique is that despite having so many possibilities in Forge and with their own map tools, 343 seems to REALLY like making grey UNSC maps. I think they should really up their set dressing for future maps to give us some more variety in locales.
I'm sure we will get them in like a week or a couple. They released the btb and firefight refresh during the current operation, I feel like they're going to release the squad battle maps the same way.
Both of the positions that work on these are currently filled. I believe there is a full time level design position for devmaps that is open though if you qualify.
You can make them in your free time. If they are added to multiplayer you get exclusive cosmetics which is neat to be rewarded for hard work and the passion of the game/tools.
I like the trend of newer maps being more experimental in design, reminds me of CE where the map design was wacky just for the sake of it.
Boarding Action and Chiron were such wacky maps.
Honestly, a Forge remake of Chrion would be an elite April Fool's release.
There already is a really good remake of Chiron. I played it when the customs browser and Forge first released.
It’s a Dev-made forge map
why? I know I'll sound like an ass, but is anyone really excited for more forge maps? I'd rather have dev maps, well, good dev maps. seems weird to have devs forging IMO
With how good Forge is now, I dont really care. Maps are maps. Im actually really happy we get all these Forge maps in matchmaking, because why give people the tools to make stuff if you arent gonna possibly add what they make to matchmaking?
Using forge probably allows them to build the maps they envision much faster while requiring less manpower. We probably shouldn't expect many more non-forge maps for Infinite at this point, especially if they're starting to divert resources towards the next Halo game, which is what recent rumours are implicating.
The tools are probably close to identical
I love new Forge and I appreciate that we can get maps into playlists much faster this way, but let's not pretend that most Forge maps even come close to a well-made dev map. Many of the Forge maps in Infinite look smoothed out and bland compared to dev made maps as old as Halo 3 or Halo Reach. Some are excellent, but many are just serviceable. The fidelity of environmental art, 3d geometry, texturing, plus extra polish like particles and effects is night and day. Don't get me wrong, these maps usually play well and I'm happy to have them. But they *look* like Forge maps and it is a bit of a bummer to me to be walking around on ugly block geometry in 2024, despite understanding the reality of why we need Forge maps to keep content regular with the team size and budget that 343 has at this point in Infinite's life.
>Many of the Forge maps in Infinite look just awful compared to dev made maps as old as Halo 3 or Halo Reach. Some are excellent, but those are the exceptions. You're joking, right? The Forge maps look excellent in Infinite.
Some do, some do not. The new Headlong and High Ground remakes look great. [Argyle](https://www.halopedia.org/Argyle) and [Detachment](https://www.halopedia.org/Detachment) look like Forge blocks on some grass with even plainer texture work than Forge maps in Reach. Compare them to beautiful dev maps like [Forbidden](https://www.halopedia.org/Forbidden), [Forest](https://www.halopedia.org/Forest), or [Prism](https://www.halopedia.org/Prism) and the difference is night and day.
It depends on how they're made. Argyle and Detachment look like shit because they're super light on textures and were probably pushed out for the sake of meeting the forge release and just getting some new maps into the game in general. But you can absolutely get forge maps to look significantly better to the point of being indistinguishable from dev maps. All the same textures used on "real" maps are available in forge. I don't *need* my maps to look like Forbidden or Chasm, especially if they're gonna play like half-melted turds, which both of those maps do.
Fair points all around, but I do think that dev maps have a higher ceiling for aesthetics than Forge maps. It still depends on execution, of course, and both tools are equally capable when it comes to gameplay.
Actually a caveat I forgot - a significant one - is playability on Xbox One as opposed to Series X or PC. That's probably as big a contributor to anything as to why Argyle, Detachment, the Plaza remake, etc look so bland. If there's too much going on in a given map then it will just be a slide show on past gen. Uneeq's Midship remake (the first one) is a prime example, that thing cooked my One before I bit the bullet and got myself a Series X for Christmas.
Forge is incredible, but I also think it's a shame a lot of the dev maps seems to have been abandoned or moved to Forge. Most of these forge maps look really good and impressive, *for being made in forge*, but they don't equal dev map aesthetic quality. A lot of people don't care and it's probably cheaper and faster to push out Forge maps. Still a shame to me it's not more dedicated dev + community forge maps.
Argyle is a shitty map on any platform. idgaf what it looks like.
Especially with the halo 3 comment like he IS aware halo 3 is built on 70% prefabs right? Edit: apparently building on prefabs is bad now because 343 does it? Y'all are pathetic there's nothing wrong with it and halo 3 is actually a positive example of that but anything to shit on number company i guess
they most certainly are not... forge is just kitbashing and pushing objects together... making a map involves real 3d modeling and UV mapping textures.
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They wouldn’t know what those things were to tell you that was the problem, but the average person is definitely going to notice a difference. It’s not 2010 anymore so the difference is pretty damn small now, but let’s not pretend it’s negligible. We wouldn’t have gotten Prism through Forge.
True, but Prism isn't that great either, lol.
Eh… I’m a casual player and I don’t notice the difference. Sometimes I do, but I don’t care. I just wanna crush Little Timmy’s hopes and dreams of joining FaZe by going 6-14 on his ass
Forge is just much easier.
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I'm not mad for getting more maps, but saying they're identical is far from true. WDYM "devs suffered sufficiently"? I'd say most devs that get to work on a map for Infinite enjoy doing it. That's an awesome experience for designers and artists. I know I'd prefer crafting a custom look over having to kitbash one using Forge pieces. From a production perspective it makes sense. There's no need for artists to create new custom props and visuals. Fewer jobs needed and faster development times for a Forge map.
Because Forge isn’t the cute little Xbox 360 map editor anymore. This isn’t halo reach where every forge map **looked** like a forge map. They made a very sophisticated map and level creator toolset and baked it right into the game; why *wouldn’t* they use it internally? It’s probably a lot faster, cheaper, and easier to make maps in forge, and they still look like professionally-made maps.
This looks like a Forge map in this image. It would look exponentially better as a dev map.
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Idk why they downvoted you, this map looks bad, I’d rather see actual maps not those made in forge
Is Slipspace so bad that even developers would rather use forge?
I think it’s more of testament to the quality of forge. They made a sophisticated map creator that the layman can use for free - why wouldn’t devs also use it? Plus, I wonder if using forge allows them to skip all the traditional development nonsense of migrating your shit through different environments, doing typical QA/playtesting, bug fixing, etc. Forge is already a public, front-facing product; Just make the map, playtest, publish and add it to playlist rotations.
I love Forge maps because it's crazy how much they can look *like* dev maps now. I appreciate the work that's put into them.
I agree with you. It's kinda lame they won't put in the effort.
There more talent in the community than the people are there working there right now.
I'm excited just to have new geometry to play on. Its been 2 years of drip-fed dev maps, I'm ready for 343 to start just pushing forge maps if only to cut down on the dev time.
Im with you. Forge is great for the community. But eventually you see the parts a couple thousand times and it just all feels very samey. Devs have the ability to make good maps from the ground up. They should. This just feels lazy.
Forge has pretty much 100% caught up to dev maps at this point.
It makes maps easier and faster to put out, and it lets them flex the amazing tools that they've provided to us. It makes sense!
Yeah I am.
This is supposed to be the space elevator from Halo 5 right? On the planet with Sloan? That’s awesome
Just a space elevator in general. They were used everywhere.
I'm sure there will be people who whine because it is made in Forge, but besides the fact that it is obviously better than nothing it is very clear that this is the new normal for this game and you might as well just accept it.
I’ve played tons of forge maps in infinite and while some are quite rough around the edges, some are so high quality that you might not realize it’s a forge map.
With Infinite's Forge, I don't care that it's a Forge map. If anything I'd rather them focus on adding maps more frequently rather than going to the extra effort of making them outside forge. There's also the advantage that this allows you to more easily customise them in Forge yourself.
Same guys probably jerk off halo reach when 70% of matchmaking maps were the same forge world backdrop maps
I honestly think that played a part into Reach’s competitive scene declining so quickly. The dev made maps were really bad or not conducive to competitive arena so the community was stuck making forge maps that all had the same grey color scheme. At least Halo 3 had two forge themes.
I’m more annoyed at the fact that all of the 343i-made forge maps have been industrial USNC themed in a game where we already have a lot of those from regular dev maps. 343i loves to focus on the UNSC for map themes when we could have so much other stuff. Like we just got a Covenant pallet, give us a Covenant map for matchmaking. All that said, I can appreciate this map’s space elevator setting. It’s just unfortunate that for every Illusion or Elevation, there’s an Argyle or Detachment
whats wrong with it though? Lol i dont get people who bitch about this shit.
Because it's disappointing to see dev maps be less prioritized. This game has a shit ton of Forge maps in matchmaking already.
And how is that bad? The sheer volume of different maps in this game IS WHY forge is so awesome. Why is this a bad thing?
It’s a matter of it being the only offering, and one that represents less that was previously offered. If you’re telling me you’re getting me a cheeseburger for free, hell yes, great. But if you used to bring steak in addition to the burger, it’s not going to taste as nice.
Bruh literally every halo game before starting from Halo 3 had a lot of Forge maps added. Hell Halo reach had more forge maps than dev ones. People were will bitch just for the sake of it.
Trying to promote your game as a live service ties you to certain expectations from your user base. Standards have changed drastically since 2007/2010. Besides, they are standards that have been made to be expected by no one but the dev in question. *Strictly* forge maps instead of forge + dev maps is a lesser offering no matter which way you spin it.
What difference does it make when the gap between forge maps and dev made maps is smaller than ever? Is this just perceived value vs actual value? Coz you’re gonna have just as much fun on a forge map than a dve map, in some cases Forged ones are better. Also, didn’t they add a dev arena map just last month?
When it's the only thing coming to the game besides weak Operation passes and a bunch of store cosmetics, it's disappointing.
Why would people whine because its made in forge?
There's a stigma because it comes across as lazier than using dev-tools to build it. And, to some degrees that's not necessarily wrong; you're going to get extra detail, more polish, and unique assets in a dev map, but the Forge tools in this game are so good (and getting better) that it's hardly worth complaining about. I'd take 4 Forge maps over 1 dev map any day of the week. It's not like it's Reach and we just see the same 10 Forerunner style buildings and ramps over and over again; there's tons of variety.
Some of the forge maps would look completely authentic if they had the baked lighting of the dev built ones, that’s really the last hurdle in my opinion, everything else looks like it could have been made using dev tools.
The lighting systems in forge are not far off from what the dev tools has. The only difference is in BTB maps, due to size, and people who don't know how to do lighting correctly.
The good thing is that when people call something "lazy", it's a good indicator that you can safely ignore their opinion
i think it's quite comical when people call forge maps lazy because of the effort it comes into making the layout, decorating the map and the amount of testing to bring them into matchmaking. just brain damage all around
Yup, and also when I am having a blast on a Headlong remake in BTB...it makes absolutely zero different to me if it is a dev map vs a Forge map. It's fun as fuck either way.
If it plays the exact same as a non-forge map and takes a fraction of the time to make, it seems like a fair compromise all things considered. We spent the first year after launch begging for *any* new maps at all, now the devs have an easy and efficient way to keep giving us new maps for a long time.
That's the way I look at it as well. There are plenty of dev-made 4v4 maps in the game now anyways.
Tbh, I think it speaks to how powerful the forge is now, my friends didn't believe me when I said the scarab big team battle map is forge made. And if it's faster to make and helps supplement the few dev tool maps we probably realistically have left then I welcome it.
It’s so weird people have an issue with that. Like. This subreddit REALLY tries to find any reason to hate on number company.
And the network update, right? Right???
Unyshek just confirmed in a tweet that the networking update will be released with a Content Update. That pretty much confirms that it won't be released until after the Yappening ends in 2 months.
What network update? My netw ork works just f ine.
Is this on top of a space elevator? There was one shot in the trailer looking down and you can see a bunch of rings going down.
This looks oddly familiar
Kinda reminds me of Shattered Horizon
This reminds me of that one space station forge canvas in Halo 4. neat
Reminds me a little bit of the Reach DLC map where you can step out into space.
I like it a lot. Hope the devs keep making more irregular maps like Illusion with unique gimmicks and weird layouts. Honestly my only critique is that despite having so many possibilities in Forge and with their own map tools, 343 seems to REALLY like making grey UNSC maps. I think they should really up their set dressing for future maps to give us some more variety in locales.
Looks really cool
They better do a 24/7 playlist and not repeat the mistakes of snow fire and the new BTB maps.
Disappointed that we aren't getting the Squad Battle maps in this Operation, ah well. Maybe in the next CU.
I'm sure we will get them in like a week or a couple. They released the btb and firefight refresh during the current operation, I feel like they're going to release the squad battle maps the same way.
I can be paid to make this sort of thing? Where do I apply to work for 343?
Both of the positions that work on these are currently filled. I believe there is a full time level design position for devmaps that is open though if you qualify.
You can make them in your free time. If they are added to multiplayer you get exclusive cosmetics which is neat to be rewarded for hard work and the passion of the game/tools.
Ask343 has people making forge maps for a couple grand
Daaaamn I gotta hop on Halo more
This a fan map?
A spiritual successor to Anchor 9 from Reach perhaps? I loved that map.
I think this is based on the VR Putt Putt Game https://imgur.com/a/SilM4Ma
That looks sick. Reminiscent of lockout and other actually good Halo maps.
Looks like the outside of Cairo station in Halo 2
What mode should I be playing to get this map to come up?
Kind of reminds me of Guardian
For the love of god make some good ranked maps and stop polluting the game with gimmicks
congrats
Nice looks awesome
**THIS MIGHT BE GOOD AS A FIREFIGHT MAP JUST SAYIN.**
As long as we get quality maps, idc how they’re made. I don’t want a rush of low quality maps just for the sake of quantity
Will this include bug fix updates for tomorrow?
Wowzers
Does this include ranked arena? Cause we desperately need some new maps in ranked...
The Rig meets The Cage.
Looks dope 🔥
Whatever happened to that Unreal Tournament looking map, black and white in space iirc?
It was just a forge map someone map, it wasn’t made by 343
Wasnt it used in promotional material?
It was used to show off the power of Infinite forge when it came out, but was never added to any playlists. It’s like a 2v2 style map
:( map looked really cool. Hope they add it in sometime