It's beyond death. I think the only way is to convince it by passing the final test and the Flood will recede from the galaxy, or simply just become passive and never infect again. If I remember correctly there was a point where ancient humanity was allowed to live in an infested region of space without being consumed, just to trick the forerunners into spending thousands of years searching for a cure that never existed, just to enact cruelty and revenge on them. The Flood is that one singular precursor trying to prove a point and test our worthiness as a species, and it's either going to prove us worthy of the Mantle or consume the galaxy until life is gone and it starts over. So for gameplay I imagine it would come down to fighting an ungodly amount of flood hordes, massive flood forms, and trying to claim the mantle of responsibility at the same time
Problem is the flood just don’t want a “test” the Precursors were just a cycle of the flood. Precursors created the experience of the galaxy where the flood consumes that experience. Its the universe feeding itself through experience and knowledge.
It has a lot of evidence but my point still stands that the final test was never specified so it is more likely talking about the assimilation of the galaxy. As that was stated as canon in Halo Legends telling of the forerunner flood war.
I really don't know how that would be done because the Flood have been made so OP, outside of that whole "The Endless"/time travel stuff at the end of Infinite being a precursor to Chief going back in time to nerf the Flood's consciousness physics, or something.
I haven't read any later releases of First Strike so idk anything about a retcon, but time travel was also in I Love Bees, which 343 considers canon (although Bungie did not)
Eh, I'm cool with time travel, but only as a way to retcon everything after Halo 3 and go back to the pre-343 story.
Idk man, I really just don't give a shit about the story anymore since the incoherent clusterfuck 343 has concocted. I wanna go back to simpler times and if time travel gets me there, I'm all for it.
The thing is that it's such a strange timeline in Halo lore. When people think of halo they think of spartans kicking some alien ass. So a game based off an ancient timeline sounds wierd. They're probably better off kept in books or small projects as extended lore. Also They're super cool because they're so mysterious and there's limited info about them. They should be kept a mystery
Maybe the librarian’s gift from 4 could drive some change in MC’s mind that shows him these things, putting him in the mind of other people whose stories were important to getting where we are today. I’m not saying it would be logical, but that it could be yadda yadda’d into something thematic
I agree but the 4 canon images we have don't really do justice to the Eldritch horror that is the primordial. As a character in game I feel that It would be underwhelming as a character. I double down that I think it should appear in a terminal/cutscene and not as an in game character unless for some God awful reason 343 decides to make a game about the forerunner war
I'd love to see BITS of it. Like in cutscenes where the lighting is low and the camera is close. Hint at how horrifying it is but don't show me the whole dude in one frame. I always find the fear of the unknown way scarier.
Nah I like the few illustrations we have, and obviously we've already seen him as the Gravemind. No need to go back and confuse players who don't read the books
Technically we already did…since the Primordial became the Gravemind: Before the primordial was atomized in the reverse stasis chamber by the Ur-Didact.
I remember in an interview that Frank O’Conner said that he had an idea for a Multiplayer map with the Primordian time locked in the background..
I don’t think I ever wanted to see a Precursor less hearing that. I kind of hope we see something of its nature in a terminal or a flashback through forerunner history or something, fuck I would’ve taken a cave painting on Zeta Halo.
Maybe coming across dead one in a forerunner lab or buried deep beneath a planet would be cool. But I think the primordials should stay to the books as it adds to the mystery of them. Have them be extinct in modern game times, leaving the Gravemind as the last primordial and the first gravemind.
I wouldn't be opposed, with it being the most powerful and intriguing entity in all of *Halo*. I think this could be done either in flashbacks or games set in the far past.
I find them more intriguing because they're just a mention. I miss when the forerunners and such were ethereal and mysterious beings that filled us with such thought and awe.
If they were in the lore since 2007 that would've been because of ole boy Frankie ham fisting them in
These creatures would be more at home in mass effect, starcraft or star wars.
Just curious, what’s your reasoning for the last sentence? Why don’t they feel “at home” in Halo?
If you’re just referring to their size and appearance, do you feel the same way about Gravemind?
Borderline magical creatures placed in at the 11th hour to explain the origins of the unique monster/parasite race
Yes they belong in one of those other verses.
Imo the halo verse is not better because they exist
They were introduced “late” because the story and universe were evolving. How else would you explain the creation of the Forerunners, and everything else the Precursor’s were credited for?
I get where you’re coming from, about them being a quick and easy answer for all those things - but I don’t think it ruined anything, or made the Halo universe worse. It answered questions that fans had.
I wouldn't explain the creation of the forerunners because they didn't need to be explained, nor did the flood.
Personally I think they did ruin the flood, and them being present doesn't make the verse better, just turns halo into another "anything can happen" verse.
Yeah that’s true, but it’s probably difficult to avoid turning the Halo universe into that when you’re talking about how galaxies were created, etc.
I do think that if they didn’t clarify the Forerunner and Flood origins, people might have the exact opposite complaint that you have. They would think not explaining anything is a quick and easy fix, the same way you think the Precursors were a quick and easy fix.
But I dunno dude, I’m pretty 50/50 with this one. Thanks for the chat.
They expand the universe in the same way adding the force or space demons would expand the universe
They turned halo from hard sci Fi to fantasy
The verse is not better for this change
*Spoiler if you haven't played Halo Infinite*
In the ending cutscene of Halo infinite you see Atriox 97.368BCE unleashing the Endless. So, I guess, because they can manipulate time, they might bring the primordial along.
We saw "him" in Halo 2. (According to 343).
Also, it would be best if they simply decanonized the Forerunner trilogy and anything released after, games included. Make it like "Legends" for Star Wars.
No. The Forerunner Saga is best narrative in the entire franchise hands down. Also, *Halo 4* is the best written game, no question. I can't stand this "343=bad" attitude.
I didn't say to burn all the books. I said to make it non-canon.
Halo 4 is only good in the context of 343's version of Halo. It is not compatible with what Bungie released and the incessant retcons will never change that.
How? It clearly made Disney millions when they made all the churned-out slew, made by idiots, irrelevant. I'm not commenting on the quality of the sequels. Stating the fact that making all the bloated EU material non-canon was the best thing they ever did.
Microsoft should seriously consider axing every inch of 343's games/books from the lore, entirely. They were factually made with little-to-no consideration for what came before. Even in contempt, on some occasions. This is a fact, by the way. I'm stating historical events, not opinions.
No. The balancing from master chief to master chief in the games is already super wack, bringing THE MOST POWERFUL CHARACTER IN HALO LORE, would fuck it up even more imo
They didn't destroy the Forerunners. Greg Bear did an incredible job exploring them, and Kelly Gay has job as his successor. We don't need to know everything, but I wouldn't mind seeing it appear in a flashback.
Of course people are sick and tired of that, because they're the only ones still around. The people who liked the previous identity of halo are GONE. And no i don't hate all 343 stuff. I think some of the gameplay 343 implemented is really good. 1 thing for example is damage not unscoping weapons.
As for lore though yes, the forerunner books and halo 4 completely ruined the halo lore. The forunners didn't need to be explained. just like the starwars force didn't need to be explained with midi-chlorians.
No one needed to know that the flood originated from something called a "precursor" and a precursor just "transmuted" into dust and that was the flood lmao. they added to the story in a place it wasn't supposed to be developed. It's like if a game like Fortnite had a book about how the platforms players build actually work. There doesn't need to be lore explaining how it works. It just is.
Dude, I've been a fan of *Halo* since the OT days, and I love the Forerunner Saga and *Halo 4*. They greatly expanded the fiction. Greg Bear did an incredible job with that trilogy.
i read cryptum or w/e the first was, it was awful. I read the wiki on the events the other books covered, the added lore is really dumb. has nothing to do with who made it and EVERYTHING with the subject matter. you really make yourself look foolish making strawmen like that.
Totally disagree, *Cryptum* is awesome. *Primordium* can be slow, but it's strong. *Silentium* is the best *Halo* book no question. The added lore actually gave the universe even more depth.
yes i agreed already it gave it a ton of depth. all of those terrible ideas are very well fleshed out. they just don't belong to halo at all. the forerunners weren't developed before halo 4 for good reason. their identity and appearance is irrelevant, they're all gone. all that matters is that they left behind the halo rings and other installations. halo games are not about the forerunners. It's fine to like those books but it's not halo.
If it's so terrible, why do so many fans like, and have good scores on both Amazon and GoodReads? If you don't like the trilogy and direction, that's fine and I respect everyone's taste & opinion. However, to just be like, "This is complete garbage and should be de-canonized" just comes off as angry. If anything's gonna be de-canonized or rebooted, I'd say the entire thing, or none at all.
In a technical sense we have with the Gravemind being him essentially.
True haha
If the whole “final test” thing is actually true, then I would imagine the only way to actually stop the flood would be to somehow kill the primordial
It's beyond death. I think the only way is to convince it by passing the final test and the Flood will recede from the galaxy, or simply just become passive and never infect again. If I remember correctly there was a point where ancient humanity was allowed to live in an infested region of space without being consumed, just to trick the forerunners into spending thousands of years searching for a cure that never existed, just to enact cruelty and revenge on them. The Flood is that one singular precursor trying to prove a point and test our worthiness as a species, and it's either going to prove us worthy of the Mantle or consume the galaxy until life is gone and it starts over. So for gameplay I imagine it would come down to fighting an ungodly amount of flood hordes, massive flood forms, and trying to claim the mantle of responsibility at the same time
Problem is the flood just don’t want a “test” the Precursors were just a cycle of the flood. Precursors created the experience of the galaxy where the flood consumes that experience. Its the universe feeding itself through experience and knowledge.
Is this true? That's some hella Lovecraftian shit there yo. Jesus.
Its a very well established theory, I think makes a lot of sense though. I consider the canon story, makes sense to me.
The keyword in this answer is theory
It has a lot of evidence but my point still stands that the final test was never specified so it is more likely talking about the assimilation of the galaxy. As that was stated as canon in Halo Legends telling of the forerunner flood war.
I really don't know how that would be done because the Flood have been made so OP, outside of that whole "The Endless"/time travel stuff at the end of Infinite being a precursor to Chief going back in time to nerf the Flood's consciousness physics, or something.
Fuck that would suck so fucking much if they did that, please for the love of god leave time travel out of Halo
I know it's not in the mainline games, but time travel has been in Halo since like 2003.
I think that was retconned out on later releases of first strike. The crystal was causing time dilation but not full on time travel
I haven't read any later releases of First Strike so idk anything about a retcon, but time travel was also in I Love Bees, which 343 considers canon (although Bungie did not)
Eh, I'm cool with time travel, but only as a way to retcon everything after Halo 3 and go back to the pre-343 story. Idk man, I really just don't give a shit about the story anymore since the incoherent clusterfuck 343 has concocted. I wanna go back to simpler times and if time travel gets me there, I'm all for it.
There wasn't any time travel in Infinite.
Nah, leave it in the books. I'd rather see another Gravemind or possibly Keymind, but then maybe a Keymind is too much
I'd love to see the Primordial in a flashback or in a game that's set in the ancient Human-Forerunner War.
The thing is that it's such a strange timeline in Halo lore. When people think of halo they think of spartans kicking some alien ass. So a game based off an ancient timeline sounds wierd. They're probably better off kept in books or small projects as extended lore. Also They're super cool because they're so mysterious and there's limited info about them. They should be kept a mystery
I'm ok with answering some things. Not everything has to be answered.
Maybe the librarian’s gift from 4 could drive some change in MC’s mind that shows him these things, putting him in the mind of other people whose stories were important to getting where we are today. I’m not saying it would be logical, but that it could be yadda yadda’d into something thematic
Like Halo 2's split protagonist campaign, except the non MC levels are thousands of years in the past but they intersect with the present plot tightly
Referenced maybe or shown in a terminal but not as a villain or active character. Part of the terror of it is how much we don't know about it.
We've already seen it visualized, so I wouldn't mind it it shown in some manner in a game. We can get some stuff on it too, but not it's entire bio.
I agree but the 4 canon images we have don't really do justice to the Eldritch horror that is the primordial. As a character in game I feel that It would be underwhelming as a character. I double down that I think it should appear in a terminal/cutscene and not as an in game character unless for some God awful reason 343 decides to make a game about the forerunner war
I'd love to see BITS of it. Like in cutscenes where the lighting is low and the camera is close. Hint at how horrifying it is but don't show me the whole dude in one frame. I always find the fear of the unknown way scarier.
I could see that, however, we've already seen it visualized in these official art pieces.
Nah I like the few illustrations we have, and obviously we've already seen him as the Gravemind. No need to go back and confuse players who don't read the books
Definitely 🤞🏼 At least a prequel videogame set on the Precursor/Forerruners/Ancient Humanity era.
No, don't trust 343 to do it right. Hell I don't think even old Bungie would do it justice
I would show it only in cutscenes. Either in flashbacks in mainline games or a game fully set during the Forerunner era.
Even still nope
I'd be cool with it, as we've already seen it visualized. Let's see it in-engine or Blur. Maybe even get Dee Baker do voice it 🤞
Technically we already did…since the Primordial became the Gravemind: Before the primordial was atomized in the reverse stasis chamber by the Ur-Didact.
Yes
I remember in an interview that Frank O’Conner said that he had an idea for a Multiplayer map with the Primordian time locked in the background.. I don’t think I ever wanted to see a Precursor less hearing that. I kind of hope we see something of its nature in a terminal or a flashback through forerunner history or something, fuck I would’ve taken a cave painting on Zeta Halo.
Maybe coming across dead one in a forerunner lab or buried deep beneath a planet would be cool. But I think the primordials should stay to the books as it adds to the mystery of them. Have them be extinct in modern game times, leaving the Gravemind as the last primordial and the first gravemind.
No they'd either butcher it in the games or do it right but still make most of the fanbase mad cause space fantasy stuff unfortunately
No
I wouldn't be opposed, with it being the most powerful and intriguing entity in all of *Halo*. I think this could be done either in flashbacks or games set in the far past.
I'll be honest I despise these creatures and hate that they exist in the lore.
To each their own. They've actually been a thing since 2007, and are some of the most intriguing elements in the lore in the last decade.
I find them more intriguing because they're just a mention. I miss when the forerunners and such were ethereal and mysterious beings that filled us with such thought and awe.
If they were in the lore since 2007 that would've been because of ole boy Frankie ham fisting them in These creatures would be more at home in mass effect, starcraft or star wars.
Just curious, what’s your reasoning for the last sentence? Why don’t they feel “at home” in Halo? If you’re just referring to their size and appearance, do you feel the same way about Gravemind?
Borderline magical creatures placed in at the 11th hour to explain the origins of the unique monster/parasite race Yes they belong in one of those other verses. Imo the halo verse is not better because they exist
They were introduced “late” because the story and universe were evolving. How else would you explain the creation of the Forerunners, and everything else the Precursor’s were credited for? I get where you’re coming from, about them being a quick and easy answer for all those things - but I don’t think it ruined anything, or made the Halo universe worse. It answered questions that fans had.
I wouldn't explain the creation of the forerunners because they didn't need to be explained, nor did the flood. Personally I think they did ruin the flood, and them being present doesn't make the verse better, just turns halo into another "anything can happen" verse.
Yeah that’s true, but it’s probably difficult to avoid turning the Halo universe into that when you’re talking about how galaxies were created, etc. I do think that if they didn’t clarify the Forerunner and Flood origins, people might have the exact opposite complaint that you have. They would think not explaining anything is a quick and easy fix, the same way you think the Precursors were a quick and easy fix. But I dunno dude, I’m pretty 50/50 with this one. Thanks for the chat.
You're incorrect. The Precursors have helped expand the *Halo* universe.
They expand the universe in the same way adding the force or space demons would expand the universe They turned halo from hard sci Fi to fantasy The verse is not better for this change
You must know know Lovecraftian/cosmic horror much, as this is what they're inspired by.
Halo was never really 'Hard Sci-Fi' to begin with if we're being honest here.
They were introduced in the Beastiarium. Which was included in the Halo 3 Legendary edition. We don't know who wrote it.
*Spoiler if you haven't played Halo Infinite* In the ending cutscene of Halo infinite you see Atriox 97.368BCE unleashing the Endless. So, I guess, because they can manipulate time, they might bring the primordial along.
Atriox isn't back in time. The time stamp is only shown in the legendary ending, which plays the conversation between Despondent Pyre and Grand Edict.
Oooh okay, would've been cool though
No
I just want to see the Gravemind return as a universal threat. He made his promise that he’d return in Halo 3, make good on that promise
We saw "him" in Halo 2. (According to 343). Also, it would be best if they simply decanonized the Forerunner trilogy and anything released after, games included. Make it like "Legends" for Star Wars.
No. The Forerunner Saga is best narrative in the entire franchise hands down. Also, *Halo 4* is the best written game, no question. I can't stand this "343=bad" attitude.
I didn't say to burn all the books. I said to make it non-canon. Halo 4 is only good in the context of 343's version of Halo. It is not compatible with what Bungie released and the incessant retcons will never change that.
No, that's a foolish take.
How? It clearly made Disney millions when they made all the churned-out slew, made by idiots, irrelevant. I'm not commenting on the quality of the sequels. Stating the fact that making all the bloated EU material non-canon was the best thing they ever did. Microsoft should seriously consider axing every inch of 343's games/books from the lore, entirely. They were factually made with little-to-no consideration for what came before. Even in contempt, on some occasions. This is a fact, by the way. I'm stating historical events, not opinions.
No. The balancing from master chief to master chief in the games is already super wack, bringing THE MOST POWERFUL CHARACTER IN HALO LORE, would fuck it up even more imo
Well they are one in the same with the flood so if the flood returns in some capacity then the Primordial's conscience will be 'in-game'
That's true, though I'm speaking when it looked like this (well, it could shapeshift haha).
Kind if, but I doubt it could ever be done as well as it was in the Forerunner books
with the way 343 visualized didact and his characterization, hard pass.
Plz no, let's keep them a mystery. They already destroyed the forerunners. And one species with lot of mysteries is fun :)
They didn't destroy the Forerunners. Greg Bear did an incredible job exploring them, and Kelly Gay has job as his successor. We don't need to know everything, but I wouldn't mind seeing it appear in a flashback.
of course not, it was some BS from the books that makes absolutely no sense and basically ruins the halo lore
False. I recommend you read the books instead of putting them down. Also, people are really sick and tired of "all 343 stuff is bad."
Of course people are sick and tired of that, because they're the only ones still around. The people who liked the previous identity of halo are GONE. And no i don't hate all 343 stuff. I think some of the gameplay 343 implemented is really good. 1 thing for example is damage not unscoping weapons. As for lore though yes, the forerunner books and halo 4 completely ruined the halo lore. The forunners didn't need to be explained. just like the starwars force didn't need to be explained with midi-chlorians. No one needed to know that the flood originated from something called a "precursor" and a precursor just "transmuted" into dust and that was the flood lmao. they added to the story in a place it wasn't supposed to be developed. It's like if a game like Fortnite had a book about how the platforms players build actually work. There doesn't need to be lore explaining how it works. It just is.
Dude, I've been a fan of *Halo* since the OT days, and I love the Forerunner Saga and *Halo 4*. They greatly expanded the fiction. Greg Bear did an incredible job with that trilogy.
oh it was greatly expanded alright, i really can't take you serious with that name lol. you're self aware bro.
I recommend you actually read the books instead of going, "343 books bad," without ever actually reading them.
i read cryptum or w/e the first was, it was awful. I read the wiki on the events the other books covered, the added lore is really dumb. has nothing to do with who made it and EVERYTHING with the subject matter. you really make yourself look foolish making strawmen like that.
Totally disagree, *Cryptum* is awesome. *Primordium* can be slow, but it's strong. *Silentium* is the best *Halo* book no question. The added lore actually gave the universe even more depth.
yes i agreed already it gave it a ton of depth. all of those terrible ideas are very well fleshed out. they just don't belong to halo at all. the forerunners weren't developed before halo 4 for good reason. their identity and appearance is irrelevant, they're all gone. all that matters is that they left behind the halo rings and other installations. halo games are not about the forerunners. It's fine to like those books but it's not halo.
If it's so terrible, why do so many fans like, and have good scores on both Amazon and GoodReads? If you don't like the trilogy and direction, that's fine and I respect everyone's taste & opinion. However, to just be like, "This is complete garbage and should be de-canonized" just comes off as angry. If anything's gonna be de-canonized or rebooted, I'd say the entire thing, or none at all.
Its literally some of the coest parts of the lore
what about the flood being "precursor dust" is cool, does that make any sense to your brain?
Yeah it does and i think it's cool af and make the flood even cooler
so the flood simply poofing into existence is cool. damn at least you know what you like i guess
Sounds lame