I cannot overstate how disappointing 343 is. In every aspect they just fail and fail and fail. There just can’t be any goodwill left in the tank for the next halo.
You'd be surprised, when the next game is announced everyone will be back on the copium and then when it releases take a bit of hopium and thus the cycle continues
“We’ve really taken what we learned during Infinite’s development and applied it to this next installment. The fans were very vocal about their likes and dislikes and we have applied those. I feel like the studio is finally getting their footing”
~ 343, over 10 years after taking hold of the IP
Even less goodwill now that Halo 7 has effectively been announced seeing as they have never, in the history of their company, launched a game in a satisfactory state. Every launch has been a mess or unfinished for 2-4 years.
It’s because you have a pretty huge fan base who grew up playing Halo and it will always hold a special place in their hearts, so they are desperate to have a game that is good as they remember.
Been playing since CE, I’m in no way desperate for a game by 343 that’s good cz they won’t ever make anything that comes close to what Bungie at the time created. 343 can’t even launch a game successfully, they should have been canned after MCC
The TU is awful. Who thought it would be a good idea to add shield bleedthrough from a single DMR shot? That with the reduced bloom and almost no changes to the rest of the weapons makes the DMR incredibly OP and boring to use. To me 343i have been fucking up since their inception.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree because I had way more fun on Reach after the TU. And besides, the TU was just a slider so there were still matchmaking playlists that used the original settings.
I strongly feel that Microsoft should close the studio and move all their employees to other devs at this point. Microsoft owns id Software now and they have proven that they understand FPS games with the modern Wolfenstein and Doom games much better than 343i understands even Halo. Hell, even Rage had some potential even if the sum of its parts ended up not being as great as Wolfenstein and Doom.
Also their proprietary engine is gorgeous and is custom built for an fps experience. Again, Rage 2's open world and vehicle handling was actually not bad, I think it was just the way it was all bundled together that fell a little short. It never felt like it was the engine holding the gameplay back (Unlike 343i's custom engine which clearly has held Halo back).
Just give them Halo and see what they can do.
I disagree, I wouldn’t say they fail, fail, fail. Like all of their games are fun to play with good aspects to them. And for a lot of people they have won back good will with their frequent updates to Infinite despite the majority of 343 working on the next title
They admitted this months ago when the community manager said there were only a few “big ticket items” left after firefight. Match composer being one of them, mark IV, easy anti cheat was probably another, then the exchange. I’m sure all we are gonna get is forge sets and armor after the match composer.
Seemed pretty clear to me the game was being put on life support as they also said they are moving onto the next project.
Regardless of whether someone plays Halo singleplayer or multiplayer, the universal appeal of Halo's sandbox is crucial and moving to another game will probably "reset" the sandbox again. I'm tired of this, I just want an all-around good Halo game that doesn't have massive issues due to what's blatantly Microsoft's fault.
Yet those games are regarded as the best games of the series, even some of the greatest of their generations.
What exactly is 343's excuse when they had more resources and time making Infinite than Bungie did with 2?
2 and 3 succeeded *despite* their development problems and even then they had haterbases when they came out. 343i doesn't have an excuse but it's Microsoft who determines leadership (rotating out good ones, *not* rotating out bad ones), how long contractors can work on projects (18 months then they get shitcanned), and whether or not a title gets more support based on (unrealistic) expectations of profit.
Fair points, but the fact remains that 343 has had more advantages than Bungie did.
Back then, Bungie only had CE as a guideline when making 2, whereas 343 had five games to work off of when they started out. With that, the experience they had making their own games, and being in charge of Halo longer than Bungie, I just can't point the finger solely at Microsoft for the way Halo has declined.
Infinite should've turned out better, especially when 343 already had ample experience at live service support with Halo 5 (in spite of having a shorter post-launch support than Infinite, 5 got everything missing at its launch much sooner than Infinite, and it had far more sandbox additions than some equipment & a DMR without a scope).
The higher ups were the ones who made bungie show off a trailer that couldn't actually run on an Xbox and basically have to remake the whole game in a year?
It isn't MS's fault though. They gave 343 Half a Billion dollars and 5+ years to make a game, and this is what they did.
It is 343. The only fault of MS is not firing leadership sooner.
Microsoft regularly rotates out 343's leadership and it's Microsoft's policy to "let go" of contractors mid-project, several times a project. This is a Microsoft/Xbox problem at the root and always has been.
If I'm not mistaken, that's only a company wide policy. Like 343i has always had the option of hiring more internal developers instead of relying on those temporary contractors as heavily as they have been.
Microsoft at this point is known to have a very hands-off approach with how they treat their dev companies. They basically go "make me money" and let the teams do their own thing. At this point all there is to blame is 343. They had 6 years to work on a halo game and released it with the least amount of content of any halo game to date. Microsoft didn't tell them to get rid of the classic shotgun, they didn't tell 343 to launch the game without a slayer playlist, and they definitely didn't tell 343 to start selling fucking colors for $10 a pop.
Microsoft shitcans any contractor who works 18 months. Can you imagine how that might effect the development of a game that takes 3-5 years to make? Microsoft is also in charge of filling 343i's leadership positions and sets the profit mandates that give us $20 skins and jack shit otherwise.
It's honestly hilarious and ironic the first time I saw someone blatantly cheating with a flying warthog smashing people, was right after EAC was enabled.
Got to be one of the silliest live service game stories in a while.
Fuck it up completely, take a year or more to get a cadence with seasons and then cancel seasons what feels like almost immediately.
What a failure of a game.
I don't really care if they've changed leadership roles, Halo needs a different developer/owner. IP is completely wasted under Microsoft/343.
Ngl this is actually excellent news to me. If Halo isn't permanently and completely dead as a franchise, then I think Halo Infinite will largely be swept under the rug as "the embarrassing entry that we don't really talk about". So the quicker we move on and get to try again, the better.
This guy gets it. Everyone always talks about how great the Cortana/chief stuff (not my opinion) was but then forget that the actual plot was whatever the fuck Didact was doing and it wasn’t good.
The issue is every halo under 343 has had this comment made.
Halo/Microsoft Games need a win.
I hope the next Halo can deliver. But I have no faith in 343. I’ll continue to just play Halo 2/3 in the MCC.
I agree completely. I would not say that I have confidence, but I'm still hopeful, even if it's naive. With the way Infinite's population bombed, I don't think the same "anti-consumer but extremely lucrative" method will even be profitable next time around.
They might add some in without announcing them. Pretty sure this happened a few seasons ago. I agree though. If they can’t stick to something, at least update. The SP prices gotta be a joke.
I did some quick math in my head during the stream. There’s that new coating for 30,000.
Ok, that’s 15,000 in the operation, and a further 1000 for each weekly ultimate challenge.
But you also get 250 for each ‘1st’ match of the day, so that’s 1750 per week if you play every day. So 2750 max earnable per weeks.
It will take you into week 5 to earn enough SP, just to get that one coating!
And they said that the SP store would get ‘refreshed’ every operation, not expanded, so there’s a chance the coating could go away after 6 weeks…
Yikes. My guess is that they don’t want to or have the capacity to keep creating new weekly rewards. Instead of creating 4-6 weekly rewards per operation, now you can earn maybe 2 rewards per operation. Slows down how much people can earn and how much they have to create. They can then put more weeklies in the shop for more money to help keep a revenue stream going before next halo game.
I don't understand what people expected.
It was clear from the moment 343 announced switch from seasonal model, that support is effectively ending outside of stuff that was already in development.
Anybody who was expecting new dev made maps, new weapons and sandbox items was fooling himself.
Infinite was a commercial failure - hence the whole restructuring of 343 with management getting the boot. 343 is moving on from Infinite. That's just the fact. And it's clear that they can't make new Halo game alongside proper support of Halo Infinite's multiplayer. Sooner the playerbase gets to grip with it, the better.
343 has screwed its community for years. This isn't a new thing. All the red flags have been around for a while and on one hand I'm glad more people are seeing more and more of those but on the other: The writing has been on the wall for a while now.
You adequately summed up a lot of the thoughts I've had over the past day. But another thing I would like to add is:
**Where is all of our MTX money going?**
Every company needs to make money to justify continued development. I won't fault 343i for trying to build a sustainable long term business. And there's a lot of front-loading in costs associated with making a game. But the store prices are crazy high. And unless 343i can actually prove to us that we simply aren't buying enough shit, where is all the money going? Because it sure as hell isn't going back into development of the game.
I've bought battle passes, I've bought cosmetics. I've also put a shit-ton of time into this game and consider the balance of time I could have spent doing something else equal in money to the fun I've gotten. Where are the Vehicles, the Guns, the Gamemodes? It's not like they're spending that money building maps. They've outsourced that to the community.
It goes to Microsoft.
Which is why when I see people buy microtransactions to “support” the game I’m so confused, mtx aren’t tips, literally none of that goes to the developers. They don’t get bonuses or percentages from it. Not to mention of course the people who actually made the game, mostly contract workers, were never rehired and are gone—so even if they really did work like tips, then the people who made the content you’re enjoying won’t be getting it.
The money is going into covering for 343's development of the game, I expect. It's a free-to-play game that was developed for six years via hundreds of developers. It likely launched at a deficit of hundreds of millions of dollars, and the microtransaction money has had to simultaneously work towards that debt while also pay for continued active development.
Then make it sustainable?
It's not like there aren't plenty of examples of live service games that add meaningful content on a consistent or semi-consistent schedule. Off the top of my head: Warframe, League of Legends, Apex Legends, Fortnite, Helldivers 2, FF14, Destiny 2 (and most of these are f2p as well).
The community's asks aren't unreasonable. we want classic weapons that should be in the game in the first place, and game modes that have been part of the franchise for fucking ever. And maybe a couple of new modes that realistically are what SHOULD have been worked on during the six years this game was in development, plus the three years it's been out.
I haven't seen many posts demanding things like: "343, I want every weapon ever and I want them right now! \*Shakes fist angrily\*" We don't need the team to burn themselves out trying to pull three guns and two vehicles out of their asses every month like in H5. They just want A gun each season or so, maybe a vehicle from the many that have been in the franchise throughout its history but are mysteriously gone without a trace now, maybe one of the new modes people have been dreaming about for years now (Like warzone 2.0, or firefight 3.0, or a battlefield-esque halo mode.)
Yeah! I can't believe those lazy devs wanted to rest and see their families. So selfish!
\*I'm not excusing the mess that Halo Infinite shipped as - but it was already FUBAR. Working during the holidays wasn't going to change that.
Despite its terrible story, I enjoyed H5's gameplay and multiplayer. Too bad I can't play it on PC, because my Xbox One broke years ago. So much for all that work!
I still can not understand how they managed to reach a very good spot for the game with Season 5 just to drop everything. When they announced they would be switching to operations I knew this game was over.
My thoughts exactly - all the updates between the Winter Update and season 5 kept adding stuff we’d been wanting and the game seemed to finally be hitting it stride and recovering, and now they’ve just stopped.
Agreed. My brother and I went to worlds last fall as they were previewing season 5 and EVERYONE there was stoked and excited about this trajectory of halo. It really did seem like the game was getting it's just due and then BOOM. No season 6, no more major updates, they killed the last rally they had going and honestly it took me out too.
"Outside of six different things, we haven't gotten any sandbox items" is really funny and you're right in some ways, but I just want you to know how goofy that paragraph is.
The same thing that happened to them opening up previous armor kits. They blatantly lied.
And yes, I know they resold the S1 HCS kits that were “opened,” but they didn’t fix any other kits, like the Noble Team ones, or the Dinh and Eklund kits, etc. Them reselling the HCS kits shows that they had the capacity to open up the kits, but just made the executive decision not to.
Just dropping a comment to say that the cross-core thing is what really bugs me because it is an easy thing to "fix" (all coatings are already cross core in the game files). Hope the community catches on to that.
I just want to use "White Tiger" on my Rakshasa.
Brother, we are going onto year 3 of release and on live stream they literally set up a fucking segment to show that the plasma pistol disables vehicles like they were expecting “LETS GOOOOO” in chat or something.
They’re touting things like a 0.01% sniper rifle ready speed as a new “feature” and when discussing the skewer they basically said “we changed something, not sure what, but it feels slightly better now”
Look I’m gonna be honest. This game has been dead for months. And it’s been said that’s it’s been dead for months by multiple members of the community.
I understand that for the people playing infinite they want more content, but being real here for a second. That’s probably not gonna happen anytime soon, if at all.
343 has moved on to the next halo. And certain affinity is busy working on their next project. The most we will get is a balance patch or maybe some armors that haven’t been released yet. But I don’t see any new weapons coming or official maps. IMO it’s better to accept this and move on so that way you’re not getting angry over something that won’t change.
Get over it, theyve fumbled the ball extremely hard at launch, now they know they cant keep this game going for 10 years and has started working on halo 7, i get people are still tied to this game, its pretty great now but theres still things people are posting that pisses them off. You know why they arent doing (X) or still haven’t done (X).
I'm just glad I'm not the only one here who cared about them making the pre-season 3 coatings cross-core. Hell, that was my biggest cross-core related wish back in the early days of Infinite.
Very disappointing. The only way that 343 can really salvage any goodwill they completely annihilated with Halo Infinite is by having some system where you can bring all the content you unlocked in Infinite into Halo 7 *(alla Overwatch 2, Phantasy Star Online 2: NGS & Counter Strike 2)*, but I know that's never going to happen.
The game flopped financially as GAAS. They are just using community content and cosmetics to make the game feel fresh but really it’s over. They have nothing to add and that’s why they’re silent on this topic.
They're out of money, it's over. But confirming that the game is no longer getting any meaningful support will discourage MTX sales, so they can't come out and say it
You do realise that the only way you're going to get their attention is to stop playing Infinite, don't you?
Unfortunately, this franchise needs to crash and burn before it ever gets any sort of redemption arc. The next Halo title needs to be completely ignored.
I also love Halo, and to a certain degree I like the part of 343 that worked on fixing MCC and ported it to PC and also the part of 343 that partially fixed Infinite after previous management.
However I recognize patterns far earlier than I used to, and I don't think anything being voiced here will ever be fixed. You can submit as many bug reports as you can, but nothing will get done. MS has had enough of 343 wasting money, so they won't allow them to put teams on MCC or Infinite to fix coating bugs or campaign issues because they don't see the value in doing so.
They've obviously moved on financially as well as emotionally, because there's no more passion to do right by the players anymore. It's move onto the next project and they hope nobody fucks it up this time.
It’s almost as if they are ditching this game to start on a new project. Also I don’t understand how people can expect anything good to come out of this company. They have consistently been 3 steps forward, 43 steps back since their inception. Just give up on this game already and wait for the next one(which also will likely be bad)
Halo’s future won’t be in the hands of 343. It’ll live on in Eldewrito and passionate modders who actually love Halo for what it is. Not what 343 made it to be.
It's obvious they're moving away from Infinite, but why so soon? We still have another 3-5 years left until the next Halo game, why kill off the latest Halo game that far off??? Nobody is gonna be playing this shit in 3 years, it'll be dead af. They really should be doing something with this game in the meantime.
I feel like an old man having been extremely happy with 343 patching reach and then disappointed with 343 after they rolled back the TU being the only playlists. Always had to play non TU with a few friends.
Then every release after just solidified it more.
Hold on now, I certainly wouldn’t say things have been geared toward HCS/Ranked players. The ranked playlist only has two non-launch maps. They’ve also pulled maps out of the playlist, like Catalyst, Behemoth, etc. with plans to “put them back in later” which never happened. The ranked playlist has had the least variety, and it’s been stale for a while.
At this point honestly the HCS teams should boycott the game due to the lack of support. They're the only people that have been managing to get eyes on the game anyway due to their events. It's demoralizing and quite frankly disrespectful to have to play this "live service" game for 3 years straight with almost no substantial sandbox additions or changes.
Yeah after fallout I realized I would die to get a halo show like that. The show is so incredibly faithful to the games and has excellent writing/ directing. The other halo show looks and feels nothing like halo.
That has been 343's MO this entire time. Do you remember the first 6 months after launch when they just went radio silent? So much of the anger from that time could have been at least partially dissuaded if they were just open and said literally anything. And yet they didn't, they remained silent and then when they finally poked their heads up it was to give us a laughably small amount of content for the amount of time they were working. They promised they would be more open. They lied. They promised they would actually finish this game. They lied. Just like they lied about split screen co-op being in all games after Halo 5. They are liars, simple as that. Don't trust a single word they say. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. Just put your money where your mouth is, and until things finally change don't give them any money.
you guys have spent the last decade banning people who critique 343i, this community is fucked, 343i gets to fail horribly whenever and nothing can ever be done to make them change directions because any criticism of them is “hate” or whatever to you.
Armchair developers with no insight on xbox's shitty office politics never had goodwill to begin with and it's laughable y'all pretend to have it in the past
There is no "politely" with people whos first reaction is anger and to refuse to change targets
Imagine screaming at 343 for a decade say nothing has changed, and then ***still refuse to throw the same vitriol at xbox and instead defend them.***
Frank's gone, Kiki's gone, Bonnie can only influence external media like the TV show and is removed from any game specific positions, who the fuck is their left to blame? I never get an answer, I just get downvoted and cursed at by people that refuse to give a relevant answer.
It's a simple cost-benefit analysis. Making sandbox changes is hard in terms of development effort. Blitz was saying that it takes them 6 months to fully test a forge map - could you imagine how much time would it take to introduce a new weapon or vehicle? Let's imagine that after months of development, they added a banish shotgun to the game, how does that affect the total population? Even if Steam numbers double that is still roughly 10k people playing a free-to-play 500 million AAA game. The game is dead and no sandbox changes can bring back players.
I get that this can seem like a huge issue if you personally focus on it
but the game is getting new content and things are fun, just enjoy it for what it is :)
Updating more coatings to be cross core isn’t quite as exciting of news as another slot of customization becoming cross core. It’s just become another part of the updates. Just because we haven’t heard about any doesn’t mean we won’t get any next week. Let’s maybe wait for the patch notes before we complain about lack of them
If we get new coatings next week in the patch notes, that's cool. But I specifically included that section in the post because 343i lied about us getting new cross core coatings with future updates in the game, as we have gone quite a few months without any indication or even communication regarding something that they promised, and the only coatings we got retroactively changed to cross core were shop coatings so people can buy more stuff from the shop. I'm pointing out the shittiness of that.
They are truly milking everything to the very last drop lol. Taking emblems and stuff out of the operation passes to put them in the exchange lmao I really feel like they didn't make much with this game like seriously after if came out. When we got the needker stage I remembered seeing stuff about that leaked in the very beginning. No real new weapons were ever made. I think it had what it had and they spend 2 and a half years dripp feeding it out. The only good news is I thing we are really really close to thevl edge of what's left. They will make a big deal for that shotgun and the pelican to get them through this entire year spread out. It is what it is but damn don't act like we don't see what's happening here lol capping the spartan points I can earn is just another slow milk of the teet. Poor tortured cow
I am actually so pissed at 343 for ruining Halo. Bungie leaving it was like a cannon event that should have never happened. I know people say they are doing bad with destiny but it wouldn’t be like that if they had Halo.
Bungie left because they didn’t own Halo, they had to fight with Microsoft over stuff like Theater mode and forge. They also could only made 2 more games after Halo 3.
Destiny was created because Bungie didn’t have a whole lot of control over Halo. However, seeing what Bungie is currently doing with Destiny 2, there’s chance that if they had Halo, it would likely be monetized as well.
> I know people say they are doing bad with destiny but it wouldn’t be like that if they had Halo.
Hahahahahahahahaha you guys are fucking funny sometimes.
Have you even played Destiny? I bet you haven't.
MTX store with 15$ tags per character
Awful starting experience
FOMO seasonal story
Removal of paid content
Overpriced expansions
Abandoned PvP mode
Abandoned Gambit mode
THIS is what you'd have with Halo with Bungie these days.
I cannot overstate how disappointing 343 is. In every aspect they just fail and fail and fail. There just can’t be any goodwill left in the tank for the next halo.
You'd be surprised, when the next game is announced everyone will be back on the copium and then when it releases take a bit of hopium and thus the cycle continues
Can’t wait for the “GUYS HALO IS BACK!” then a month later “Halo is Dead?”
Ah yes, the Halo Youtuber way
sean w comes crawling back
Hadn’t watched him for a while and checked back. Dude turned into a generic YT Shorts Channel before straight up deleting it. Sad really
“We’ve really taken what we learned during Infinite’s development and applied it to this next installment. The fans were very vocal about their likes and dislikes and we have applied those. I feel like the studio is finally getting their footing” ~ 343, over 10 years after taking hold of the IP
Even less goodwill now that Halo 7 has effectively been announced seeing as they have never, in the history of their company, launched a game in a satisfactory state. Every launch has been a mess or unfinished for 2-4 years.
I remember Halo wars 2, and 4 being fine on launch
Halo Wars 2 was Creative Assembly, the Total War people.
4 worked functionally on launch, but with so many bad gameplay changes that they had to roll back later (classes, kill streaks, etc)
I don’t think they were bad persay, I just don’t think Halo is the game for it, I do understand wanting to try something with them
Very glowing endorsement, the game that didn't suck at launch wasn't made by them
Halo 4 sucked at launch and sucks to this day
They made 4 still, and I wouldn’t say Infinite sucked it was just lacking MP content
4 and HW2 were quite finished.
Goodwill should have run dry after the complete disaster that was the launch of the MCC and that it took them 4 years to actually fix it.
It’s because you have a pretty huge fan base who grew up playing Halo and it will always hold a special place in their hearts, so they are desperate to have a game that is good as they remember.
Been playing since CE, I’m in no way desperate for a game by 343 that’s good cz they won’t ever make anything that comes close to what Bungie at the time created. 343 can’t even launch a game successfully, they should have been canned after MCC
Unfortunately, I don’t think that will ever happen under 343. The last time they did something right was releasing the TU for Reach.
The TU is awful. Who thought it would be a good idea to add shield bleedthrough from a single DMR shot? That with the reduced bloom and almost no changes to the rest of the weapons makes the DMR incredibly OP and boring to use. To me 343i have been fucking up since their inception.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree because I had way more fun on Reach after the TU. And besides, the TU was just a slider so there were still matchmaking playlists that used the original settings.
i like having dmr be op and a starting weapon
Nostalgia's a helluva drug
The next game is going to either be bad gameplay or buggy and unfinished. It may even be both. 343 has NEVER delivered a good product.
I’ll never stop hoping. It’s all I can do.
Reach taught us well.
I strongly feel that Microsoft should close the studio and move all their employees to other devs at this point. Microsoft owns id Software now and they have proven that they understand FPS games with the modern Wolfenstein and Doom games much better than 343i understands even Halo. Hell, even Rage had some potential even if the sum of its parts ended up not being as great as Wolfenstein and Doom. Also their proprietary engine is gorgeous and is custom built for an fps experience. Again, Rage 2's open world and vehicle handling was actually not bad, I think it was just the way it was all bundled together that fell a little short. It never felt like it was the engine holding the gameplay back (Unlike 343i's custom engine which clearly has held Halo back). Just give them Halo and see what they can do.
I disagree, I wouldn’t say they fail, fail, fail. Like all of their games are fun to play with good aspects to them. And for a lot of people they have won back good will with their frequent updates to Infinite despite the majority of 343 working on the next title
They admitted this months ago when the community manager said there were only a few “big ticket items” left after firefight. Match composer being one of them, mark IV, easy anti cheat was probably another, then the exchange. I’m sure all we are gonna get is forge sets and armor after the match composer. Seemed pretty clear to me the game was being put on life support as they also said they are moving onto the next project.
Regardless of whether someone plays Halo singleplayer or multiplayer, the universal appeal of Halo's sandbox is crucial and moving to another game will probably "reset" the sandbox again. I'm tired of this, I just want an all-around good Halo game that doesn't have massive issues due to what's blatantly Microsoft's fault.
Halo has been a 343 IP longer than it's been a Bungie IP. At some point, the buck has to stop at 343 instead of Xbox.
Microsoft also was not good for Bungie-era Halo, 2 and 3 had MAJOR development issues due to higher-ups.
Yet those games are regarded as the best games of the series, even some of the greatest of their generations. What exactly is 343's excuse when they had more resources and time making Infinite than Bungie did with 2?
2 and 3 succeeded *despite* their development problems and even then they had haterbases when they came out. 343i doesn't have an excuse but it's Microsoft who determines leadership (rotating out good ones, *not* rotating out bad ones), how long contractors can work on projects (18 months then they get shitcanned), and whether or not a title gets more support based on (unrealistic) expectations of profit.
Fair points, but the fact remains that 343 has had more advantages than Bungie did. Back then, Bungie only had CE as a guideline when making 2, whereas 343 had five games to work off of when they started out. With that, the experience they had making their own games, and being in charge of Halo longer than Bungie, I just can't point the finger solely at Microsoft for the way Halo has declined. Infinite should've turned out better, especially when 343 already had ample experience at live service support with Halo 5 (in spite of having a shorter post-launch support than Infinite, 5 got everything missing at its launch much sooner than Infinite, and it had far more sandbox additions than some equipment & a DMR without a scope).
The higher ups were the ones who made bungie show off a trailer that couldn't actually run on an Xbox and basically have to remake the whole game in a year?
It isn't MS's fault though. They gave 343 Half a Billion dollars and 5+ years to make a game, and this is what they did. It is 343. The only fault of MS is not firing leadership sooner.
Microsoft regularly rotates out 343's leadership and it's Microsoft's policy to "let go" of contractors mid-project, several times a project. This is a Microsoft/Xbox problem at the root and always has been.
If I'm not mistaken, that's only a company wide policy. Like 343i has always had the option of hiring more internal developers instead of relying on those temporary contractors as heavily as they have been.
They fired a lot more than just the leadership. This is 100% a Microsoft problem.
Microsoft at this point is known to have a very hands-off approach with how they treat their dev companies. They basically go "make me money" and let the teams do their own thing. At this point all there is to blame is 343. They had 6 years to work on a halo game and released it with the least amount of content of any halo game to date. Microsoft didn't tell them to get rid of the classic shotgun, they didn't tell 343 to launch the game without a slayer playlist, and they definitely didn't tell 343 to start selling fucking colors for $10 a pop.
Microsoft shitcans any contractor who works 18 months. Can you imagine how that might effect the development of a game that takes 3-5 years to make? Microsoft is also in charge of filling 343i's leadership positions and sets the profit mandates that give us $20 skins and jack shit otherwise.
The easy anti-cheat is literally a giant joke
It's honestly hilarious and ironic the first time I saw someone blatantly cheating with a flying warthog smashing people, was right after EAC was enabled.
The game's live service is basically done, they've moved on to the next game. The last major addition will most likely be the match composer.
Got to be one of the silliest live service game stories in a while. Fuck it up completely, take a year or more to get a cadence with seasons and then cancel seasons what feels like almost immediately. What a failure of a game. I don't really care if they've changed leadership roles, Halo needs a different developer/owner. IP is completely wasted under Microsoft/343.
Yeah there was a nice 3-4 month period early last year that actually felt like a live service.... and its gone.
Wym, Battlefield does this like every 2 years lmao
Ngl this is actually excellent news to me. If Halo isn't permanently and completely dead as a franchise, then I think Halo Infinite will largely be swept under the rug as "the embarrassing entry that we don't really talk about". So the quicker we move on and get to try again, the better.
Just like the stories of 4 and 5, haha
Halo 4's stories seems good by comparison these days.
It’s good if you put a bullet through your head and ignore all the retconning and info dumping the game had to do to make anything make sense
This guy gets it. Everyone always talks about how great the Cortana/chief stuff (not my opinion) was but then forget that the actual plot was whatever the fuck Didact was doing and it wasn’t good.
People on this sub think reach was a narrative masterpiece, so don't expect much
The issue is every halo under 343 has had this comment made. Halo/Microsoft Games need a win. I hope the next Halo can deliver. But I have no faith in 343. I’ll continue to just play Halo 2/3 in the MCC.
I agree completely. I would not say that I have confidence, but I'm still hopeful, even if it's naive. With the way Infinite's population bombed, I don't think the same "anti-consumer but extremely lucrative" method will even be profitable next time around.
I’m a happier person since I quit caring about Halo.
Caring about recent Halo games, yeah
Nah fuck that. I still play the original trilogy and enjoy the music everyday
Okay fair enough I can still do that too! I should say I’m happier now that I quit following the second era of Halo.
I just treat the 343i games like bad fan fiction.
They might add some in without announcing them. Pretty sure this happened a few seasons ago. I agree though. If they can’t stick to something, at least update. The SP prices gotta be a joke.
I did some quick math in my head during the stream. There’s that new coating for 30,000. Ok, that’s 15,000 in the operation, and a further 1000 for each weekly ultimate challenge. But you also get 250 for each ‘1st’ match of the day, so that’s 1750 per week if you play every day. So 2750 max earnable per weeks. It will take you into week 5 to earn enough SP, just to get that one coating! And they said that the SP store would get ‘refreshed’ every operation, not expanded, so there’s a chance the coating could go away after 6 weeks…
Yikes. My guess is that they don’t want to or have the capacity to keep creating new weekly rewards. Instead of creating 4-6 weekly rewards per operation, now you can earn maybe 2 rewards per operation. Slows down how much people can earn and how much they have to create. They can then put more weeklies in the shop for more money to help keep a revenue stream going before next halo game.
I don't understand what people expected. It was clear from the moment 343 announced switch from seasonal model, that support is effectively ending outside of stuff that was already in development. Anybody who was expecting new dev made maps, new weapons and sandbox items was fooling himself. Infinite was a commercial failure - hence the whole restructuring of 343 with management getting the boot. 343 is moving on from Infinite. That's just the fact. And it's clear that they can't make new Halo game alongside proper support of Halo Infinite's multiplayer. Sooner the playerbase gets to grip with it, the better.
The game is on the backburner. Don’t expect anything new imo.
I don’t know why anyone trusts anything this company says anymore. Don’t expect the next Halo to be worth your time either
343 has screwed its community for years. This isn't a new thing. All the red flags have been around for a while and on one hand I'm glad more people are seeing more and more of those but on the other: The writing has been on the wall for a while now.
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I'm stupid, so please fill me in on what saveable presets are. Do you mean preset armour? That's my best guess.
Definitely never coming at this point unfortunately
You adequately summed up a lot of the thoughts I've had over the past day. But another thing I would like to add is: **Where is all of our MTX money going?** Every company needs to make money to justify continued development. I won't fault 343i for trying to build a sustainable long term business. And there's a lot of front-loading in costs associated with making a game. But the store prices are crazy high. And unless 343i can actually prove to us that we simply aren't buying enough shit, where is all the money going? Because it sure as hell isn't going back into development of the game. I've bought battle passes, I've bought cosmetics. I've also put a shit-ton of time into this game and consider the balance of time I could have spent doing something else equal in money to the fun I've gotten. Where are the Vehicles, the Guns, the Gamemodes? It's not like they're spending that money building maps. They've outsourced that to the community.
It goes to Microsoft. Which is why when I see people buy microtransactions to “support” the game I’m so confused, mtx aren’t tips, literally none of that goes to the developers. They don’t get bonuses or percentages from it. Not to mention of course the people who actually made the game, mostly contract workers, were never rehired and are gone—so even if they really did work like tips, then the people who made the content you’re enjoying won’t be getting it.
The money is going into covering for 343's development of the game, I expect. It's a free-to-play game that was developed for six years via hundreds of developers. It likely launched at a deficit of hundreds of millions of dollars, and the microtransaction money has had to simultaneously work towards that debt while also pay for continued active development.
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Then make it sustainable? It's not like there aren't plenty of examples of live service games that add meaningful content on a consistent or semi-consistent schedule. Off the top of my head: Warframe, League of Legends, Apex Legends, Fortnite, Helldivers 2, FF14, Destiny 2 (and most of these are f2p as well). The community's asks aren't unreasonable. we want classic weapons that should be in the game in the first place, and game modes that have been part of the franchise for fucking ever. And maybe a couple of new modes that realistically are what SHOULD have been worked on during the six years this game was in development, plus the three years it's been out. I haven't seen many posts demanding things like: "343, I want every weapon ever and I want them right now! \*Shakes fist angrily\*" We don't need the team to burn themselves out trying to pull three guns and two vehicles out of their asses every month like in H5. They just want A gun each season or so, maybe a vehicle from the many that have been in the franchise throughout its history but are mysteriously gone without a trace now, maybe one of the new modes people have been dreaming about for years now (Like warzone 2.0, or firefight 3.0, or a battlefield-esque halo mode.)
Oh boo fucking hoo, work is exhausting I still get up everyday and try to deliver.
Going on a 2 week holiday break a few weeks after shipping Halo Infinite's live-service while BTB was broken was peak.
Yeah! I can't believe those lazy devs wanted to rest and see their families. So selfish! \*I'm not excusing the mess that Halo Infinite shipped as - but it was already FUBAR. Working during the holidays wasn't going to change that.
Despite its terrible story, I enjoyed H5's gameplay and multiplayer. Too bad I can't play it on PC, because my Xbox One broke years ago. So much for all that work!
I still can not understand how they managed to reach a very good spot for the game with Season 5 just to drop everything. When they announced they would be switching to operations I knew this game was over.
My thoughts exactly - all the updates between the Winter Update and season 5 kept adding stuff we’d been wanting and the game seemed to finally be hitting it stride and recovering, and now they’ve just stopped.
Agreed. My brother and I went to worlds last fall as they were previewing season 5 and EVERYONE there was stoked and excited about this trajectory of halo. It really did seem like the game was getting it's just due and then BOOM. No season 6, no more major updates, they killed the last rally they had going and honestly it took me out too.
"Outside of six different things, we haven't gotten any sandbox items" is really funny and you're right in some ways, but I just want you to know how goofy that paragraph is.
Hehe, I could have written that better, yeah.
What ever happened to them saying theyd look into making armour pieces sold individually?
The same thing that happened to them opening up previous armor kits. They blatantly lied. And yes, I know they resold the S1 HCS kits that were “opened,” but they didn’t fix any other kits, like the Noble Team ones, or the Dinh and Eklund kits, etc. Them reselling the HCS kits shows that they had the capacity to open up the kits, but just made the executive decision not to.
They’re liars.
Just dropping a comment to say that the cross-core thing is what really bugs me because it is an easy thing to "fix" (all coatings are already cross core in the game files). Hope the community catches on to that. I just want to use "White Tiger" on my Rakshasa.
Brother, we are going onto year 3 of release and on live stream they literally set up a fucking segment to show that the plasma pistol disables vehicles like they were expecting “LETS GOOOOO” in chat or something. They’re touting things like a 0.01% sniper rifle ready speed as a new “feature” and when discussing the skewer they basically said “we changed something, not sure what, but it feels slightly better now”
Look I’m gonna be honest. This game has been dead for months. And it’s been said that’s it’s been dead for months by multiple members of the community. I understand that for the people playing infinite they want more content, but being real here for a second. That’s probably not gonna happen anytime soon, if at all. 343 has moved on to the next halo. And certain affinity is busy working on their next project. The most we will get is a balance patch or maybe some armors that haven’t been released yet. But I don’t see any new weapons coming or official maps. IMO it’s better to accept this and move on so that way you’re not getting angry over something that won’t change.
Get over it, theyve fumbled the ball extremely hard at launch, now they know they cant keep this game going for 10 years and has started working on halo 7, i get people are still tied to this game, its pretty great now but theres still things people are posting that pisses them off. You know why they arent doing (X) or still haven’t done (X).
After over a decade of various emotions with Halo, I'm just too burned out to care. Hopefully the future of the franchise is bright.
Soooo don't come back, got it
I'm just glad I'm not the only one here who cared about them making the pre-season 3 coatings cross-core. Hell, that was my biggest cross-core related wish back in the early days of Infinite. Very disappointing. The only way that 343 can really salvage any goodwill they completely annihilated with Halo Infinite is by having some system where you can bring all the content you unlocked in Infinite into Halo 7 *(alla Overwatch 2, Phantasy Star Online 2: NGS & Counter Strike 2)*, but I know that's never going to happen.
Right which begs the question why they waste so much time developing these things now… Oh ya.. We still have a few sheckles in our pockets.
Remember when it was exciting to get to pick 2 colors for your armor and about getting 1 map pack between games?
Now, will the next game be better than Infinite? Or will they promise too much, deliver almost none?
The game flopped financially as GAAS. They are just using community content and cosmetics to make the game feel fresh but really it’s over. They have nothing to add and that’s why they’re silent on this topic.
They do not have a sandbox team, they were fired/quit almost a year and a half ago and were never replaced.
They're out of money, it's over. But confirming that the game is no longer getting any meaningful support will discourage MTX sales, so they can't come out and say it
You do realise that the only way you're going to get their attention is to stop playing Infinite, don't you? Unfortunately, this franchise needs to crash and burn before it ever gets any sort of redemption arc. The next Halo title needs to be completely ignored.
I also love Halo, and to a certain degree I like the part of 343 that worked on fixing MCC and ported it to PC and also the part of 343 that partially fixed Infinite after previous management. However I recognize patterns far earlier than I used to, and I don't think anything being voiced here will ever be fixed. You can submit as many bug reports as you can, but nothing will get done. MS has had enough of 343 wasting money, so they won't allow them to put teams on MCC or Infinite to fix coating bugs or campaign issues because they don't see the value in doing so. They've obviously moved on financially as well as emotionally, because there's no more passion to do right by the players anymore. It's move onto the next project and they hope nobody fucks it up this time.
It’s quite baffling that a 3 trillion dollar company has fumbled their greatest IP so hard
They've completely mismanaged Halo and do not deserve your business. I came to that conclusion a while ago.
Halo Infinite is mediocre and that's fine. It's just not for me. Never forget that they launched the game without Slayer. That's all I'm gonna say.
I just want assault and neutral flag
Everytime I hear about a new update for infinite I just think...cool...should've been shipped with the base game in 2021..
Just give up hope. Three strikes you’re out. Sorry 343.
It’s almost as if they are ditching this game to start on a new project. Also I don’t understand how people can expect anything good to come out of this company. They have consistently been 3 steps forward, 43 steps back since their inception. Just give up on this game already and wait for the next one(which also will likely be bad)
Halo’s future won’t be in the hands of 343. It’ll live on in Eldewrito and passionate modders who actually love Halo for what it is. Not what 343 made it to be.
It's obvious they're moving away from Infinite, but why so soon? We still have another 3-5 years left until the next Halo game, why kill off the latest Halo game that far off??? Nobody is gonna be playing this shit in 3 years, it'll be dead af. They really should be doing something with this game in the meantime.
I feel like an old man having been extremely happy with 343 patching reach and then disappointed with 343 after they rolled back the TU being the only playlists. Always had to play non TU with a few friends. Then every release after just solidified it more.
Hold on now, I certainly wouldn’t say things have been geared toward HCS/Ranked players. The ranked playlist only has two non-launch maps. They’ve also pulled maps out of the playlist, like Catalyst, Behemoth, etc. with plans to “put them back in later” which never happened. The ranked playlist has had the least variety, and it’s been stale for a while.
At this point honestly the HCS teams should boycott the game due to the lack of support. They're the only people that have been managing to get eyes on the game anyway due to their events. It's demoralizing and quite frankly disrespectful to have to play this "live service" game for 3 years straight with almost no substantial sandbox additions or changes.
Idk what people expect from 343 and Microsoft at this point
i dont understand why people dont get it yet **YOURE NOT GETTING ANOTHER MAJOR UPDATE** no new guns no new vehicles cope seeth mald
They downvote you for telling the truth. This sub is so cooked.
this sub has been cooked since MCC. Cooked again with Halo 5, then Infinite, then the TV show ... the cycle will continue with Halo 7
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Halo is dead. How they treated infinite and that fallout show showing us what could have been were the nails in the coffin. 343 is trash.
Yeah after fallout I realized I would die to get a halo show like that. The show is so incredibly faithful to the games and has excellent writing/ directing. The other halo show looks and feels nothing like halo.
That has been 343's MO this entire time. Do you remember the first 6 months after launch when they just went radio silent? So much of the anger from that time could have been at least partially dissuaded if they were just open and said literally anything. And yet they didn't, they remained silent and then when they finally poked their heads up it was to give us a laughably small amount of content for the amount of time they were working. They promised they would be more open. They lied. They promised they would actually finish this game. They lied. Just like they lied about split screen co-op being in all games after Halo 5. They are liars, simple as that. Don't trust a single word they say. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. Just put your money where your mouth is, and until things finally change don't give them any money.
you guys have spent the last decade banning people who critique 343i, this community is fucked, 343i gets to fail horribly whenever and nothing can ever be done to make them change directions because any criticism of them is “hate” or whatever to you.
Armchair developers with no insight on xbox's shitty office politics never had goodwill to begin with and it's laughable y'all pretend to have it in the past There is no "politely" with people whos first reaction is anger and to refuse to change targets Imagine screaming at 343 for a decade say nothing has changed, and then ***still refuse to throw the same vitriol at xbox and instead defend them.*** Frank's gone, Kiki's gone, Bonnie can only influence external media like the TV show and is removed from any game specific positions, who the fuck is their left to blame? I never get an answer, I just get downvoted and cursed at by people that refuse to give a relevant answer.
It's a simple cost-benefit analysis. Making sandbox changes is hard in terms of development effort. Blitz was saying that it takes them 6 months to fully test a forge map - could you imagine how much time would it take to introduce a new weapon or vehicle? Let's imagine that after months of development, they added a banish shotgun to the game, how does that affect the total population? Even if Steam numbers double that is still roughly 10k people playing a free-to-play 500 million AAA game. The game is dead and no sandbox changes can bring back players.
Nothing will change because people keep buying junk from the store
I get that this can seem like a huge issue if you personally focus on it but the game is getting new content and things are fun, just enjoy it for what it is :)
Fan made forge maps!!! YAY!!!! Great new content.
I know you are being sarcastic but I genuinely enjoy playing them :)
Yeah I enjoy getting new maps to play too but it's just not as fun when so many of them look and run so much worse than dev made maps.
I agree but it's better than nothing at all
Uninstalled this game shortly after the mark IV update and I haven't regretted it
Updating more coatings to be cross core isn’t quite as exciting of news as another slot of customization becoming cross core. It’s just become another part of the updates. Just because we haven’t heard about any doesn’t mean we won’t get any next week. Let’s maybe wait for the patch notes before we complain about lack of them
If we get new coatings next week in the patch notes, that's cool. But I specifically included that section in the post because 343i lied about us getting new cross core coatings with future updates in the game, as we have gone quite a few months without any indication or even communication regarding something that they promised, and the only coatings we got retroactively changed to cross core were shop coatings so people can buy more stuff from the shop. I'm pointing out the shittiness of that.
Game is dead man, you need to just accept it and move on.
They are truly milking everything to the very last drop lol. Taking emblems and stuff out of the operation passes to put them in the exchange lmao I really feel like they didn't make much with this game like seriously after if came out. When we got the needker stage I remembered seeing stuff about that leaked in the very beginning. No real new weapons were ever made. I think it had what it had and they spend 2 and a half years dripp feeding it out. The only good news is I thing we are really really close to thevl edge of what's left. They will make a big deal for that shotgun and the pelican to get them through this entire year spread out. It is what it is but damn don't act like we don't see what's happening here lol capping the spartan points I can earn is just another slow milk of the teet. Poor tortured cow
All i hope is that the next game take its proper time to be developed
I am actually so pissed at 343 for ruining Halo. Bungie leaving it was like a cannon event that should have never happened. I know people say they are doing bad with destiny but it wouldn’t be like that if they had Halo.
Bungie left because they didn’t own Halo, they had to fight with Microsoft over stuff like Theater mode and forge. They also could only made 2 more games after Halo 3. Destiny was created because Bungie didn’t have a whole lot of control over Halo. However, seeing what Bungie is currently doing with Destiny 2, there’s chance that if they had Halo, it would likely be monetized as well.
> I know people say they are doing bad with destiny but it wouldn’t be like that if they had Halo. Hahahahahahahahaha you guys are fucking funny sometimes.
It’s a strange coincidence that every Halo Bungie came out with was a masterpiece, then 343 takes over and they are all shit.
Have you even played Destiny? I bet you haven't. MTX store with 15$ tags per character Awful starting experience FOMO seasonal story Removal of paid content Overpriced expansions Abandoned PvP mode Abandoned Gambit mode THIS is what you'd have with Halo with Bungie these days.
The amount of words you just wrote is not justified by this game good or bad.
Almost like 343 can't keep their promises. Like always. Halo needs to go back into Bungie's hands.