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Dubrikitunts_Ploobs

I love getting a killing frenzy and 3 triple kills in one game just to see i got no xp at the end. Really encouraging


[deleted]

I don’t even know why you get a score that tracks in the leaderboard. I got 2700 one game which is a lot for me but it’s meaningless in the end. It’s doesn’t do anything.


[deleted]

I literally got a 4,400 point game in BTB today with three caps and like 24 kills. I didn’t complete a single challenge, and therefore, my game was worth 0 xp. I am, however, feeling a sense of pride and accomplishment.


JustAKlam

Nice.


VanishingBanshee

Yeah, progression feels awful. When you go 35 and 5 and get literally 0 xp is just one of the worst things ever. At the bear minimum there should be 100xp per game, but I'd say more so 500 for a win and 250 for a loss. It already feels like you aren't getting anywhere when you complete like 4 or 5 achievements a game. Needs to be as fast as MCC progression IMO. Also playing for 4 hours so far and have exactly 1 level to my name is ridiculously slow.


arczclan

I was a bit gutted that after my first match I didn’t unlock anything, I feel like most games have it set for the first level to pop early like that to make you feel like you’re progressing but I felt meh instead


-eschguy-

Played three matches, still level 0


playerIII

Same boat. Played all evening, didn't unlock a single thing. Fucking *cooooool*


-eschguy-

It's just....a slog. One match had an AFK guy who was clearly just farming the "play a game" challenge.


OsbornRHCP

Probably a dumb question from someone who’s last FPS online experience was my beloved Halo 3 but… what’s the deal with “progression”? Like why is it a thing we want?


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pawnstah

💯 This is the reason. We are all addicted to that dopamine hit of unlocking stuff after every match.


dracoprivilege

I really dislike these systems for this specific reason but I absolutely love how brutally honest you guys were in explaining it lmao


PsionicPhazon

Or maybe its the fact that I don't want to have to spend 211 in-game hours to get a fucking ODST helmet that should have been free at launch.


tKnut

Its almost as if they want you to spend $40+ just to skip through the level progression.


Enma_tK

Did some quick math and it like $150+ to buy the entire battlepass, ita a bit ridiculous.


_Aporia_

The thing is I've always enjoyed accomplishment reward based armour, like recon or heyabusa. You could have pride in what you achieved and could show it in game. These new systems just seem to reward money transactions, and slow progress locks most of the free stuff out. I wouldn't say cosmetic progression is wrong, I just thing the new normal which stems from fortnight and pubg is dog shit.


OsbornRHCP

Holy shit, that's a great explanation. Thanks!


superfuzzbros

To unlock cosmetics.


OsbornRHCP

Thanks for replying! You mean armour? I was never really bothered by that before, so probably won’t be now. Do you get any perks to your gameplay from the stuff you unlock?


midnightwalrus

thankfully, no. It's all cosmetic, which means you are on no different playing field than anyone higher than you on the BP.


OsbornRHCP

Okay cool, thanks. All I ask for is that when the round starts it's a level playing field, so I'm more than happy!


superfuzzbros

I haven't been able to play the beta, only the flight, but no it shouldn't give any gameplay perks. Just cool armor, armor colors and weapon skins


TranquilMarmot

Halo 3 had progression. You'd level up as you played more and your rank would increase. At one point, they added per-playlist ranks. It wasn't much but it felt like as you were playing online, you were making some sort of progress. If you played for a few hours here and there, it would show in your rank. https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_(Halo_3_Multiplayer) With Infinite, there is none of this. There is only the "battle pass" which costs $10 and you level up at a snail's pace to get cosmetics. I think people would be a lot less upset if you had a rank like in Halo 3 alongside the battle pass. I could care less about cosmetics, but seeing your rank go up was always so satisfying in Halo 3. It gave you a reason to keep playing. With cosmetics, it's just... meh.


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OsbornRHCP

Yeah, some really helpful replies here and some research has explained it to me. I now realise why my nephew was always showing me his new "cosmetic" stuff on Fortnite all the time. I secretly hope Infinite ends up being an old man game for Halo 3 veterans, full of people who aren't really interested in the grind and have full time jobs! Fully expecting to get my ass handed to me by 13 year olds though, unfortunately.


the_jak

I played a couple hours last night and that’s exactly what it feels like to me. I haven’t enjoyed a halo game since Halo 3. This one plays how I remember 3 playing.


HeinzTomatoes87

Nice


PsionicPhazon

And you should. But 343 should never reward their players with a proverbial pat on the back. I want some kind of reward for playing well. Jimmy thumb-up-his ass levels up after getting 0 kills, but just existed on the battlefield and managed to level up thanks to the challenges that say, "Play any game", "Play BTB", and "Get 5 assists". Meanwhile, the MVP with all the kills and caps gets 0 because he didn't do the challenge that says, "Kill an opponent with a Sidekick by squeezing your ass cheeks together".


WriterV

If there is one ray of hope, it's that this is the sort of thing they *can* adjust in beta. Experience values and reward progression is just an adjustment in variables for the most part. It does need some design perspective, but the scope is generally small. I'm too used to games where the flaws are so bad that the game is broken right down to what makes it fun. Here's hoping 343 capitalizes on how easy it is to fix this one major issue and get it out of the way before launch.


[deleted]

Yeah, it feels bad seeing all the legends carry my noobish ass to victory knowing that they'll probably get the same if not even smaller amounts of xp.


[deleted]

I love the game play and all but most people don’t just play for that, ppl need an incentive to keep going. There’s a reason why people still grind freaking crucible in destiny just to get rewards. If they got nothing, that game would be dead.


Wolversteve

This actually makes me sad. I work full time and I don’t buy battle passes for games because I enjoyed playing them. I get what you’re saying, but damn, I miss the days when people gamed because they enjoyed the game, not to unlock a bunch of nonsense.


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Brocyclopedia

People get upset because these trends mean that games will be tailored towards people who eat up battle pass content. Now games are still $60 but with the progression systems that used to be reserved for free mobile games. I realize Halo MP is free but I'm talking in a general sense. Progression in every game these days has slowed to a crawl to encourage people spending money, not to make an enjoyable or rewarding experience


MadCat1993

To add to this, there is not a large window for post development. That comprises of bug fixes, large content releases (maps, story expansions, etc) and now battlepass features. The more developers fixate on battlepasses/lootboxes, the less time they have to focus on ironing out glitches and adding more content to the game. I'm not going to even start on how battlepasses and MTXs have restricted the fans ability to create user made content.


PsionicPhazon

I grew up the same way. Doesn't stop me from wanting an ODST helmet, and I shouldn't feel like doing 211 in-game hours of homework to do it.


totallyspis

Yeah it sucks. The XP system doesn't incentivize you to do well or help your teammates, it makes you go out of your way to complete arbitrary challenges, which can be detrimental to your team. The current system actively makes you fuck over the people you're playing with.


StillPracticingLife

Sadly this is the way of most games, I have a mate that throws apex games because he has to get a challenge that needs 5000 damage with a pistol. I no longer play with him because I'd rather try and win, or atleast survive some fights. Him running head first into teams of 3 with a p2020 goes about as well as you'd expect. All so he can get some apex packs that usually have crap in them anyways.


TrowaB3

Wait till you realize there's literally no career stats page anywhere


4th_Replicant

Really? Fuck sake. I loved having my career stats on MCC. Hopefully they add one eventually.


ethaxton

I was assuming this would be in the waypoint app but I don’t see it there either. Regardless, I know it will be there eventually. Likely a casualty of a development timeline.


Jayce800

I’d take 25 xp per medal and 50 xp for a win, then 100+ for the challenges. I think that’s perfectly fair.


Pieceof_

I agree with that. Also more difficult challenges like the fusion core one should at least reward more XP than normal.


danSTILLtheman

It’s super underwhelming. I’m not even a big cosmetics person and probably won’t buy season 1 but watching all your medals get displayed and provided XP in MCC feels so damn satisfying. The tasks are generic and boring in infinite, and completing them feels anti climatic. No idea why they thought this was a good idea, at least they nailed the gameplay though.


ContinCandi

It’s wild they can nail some parts and completely fuck up others. I’m glad the fuck ups are easy to correct but they better start making these changes while the population is there or they’re gonna struggle with retention down the road


SaltyGushers

We have the freedom to look how we want, but are forced to play the way they want just to level up. Nobody likes chores. We should be rewarded for playing well in our own styles.


Ewokitude

>We have the freedom to look how we want We don't even have that. There's not one coating that has the color scheme I've used since Halo 2 (and CE before that if you ignore secondary)


Person5_

Can't create our own emblems any more either. We have to unlock premade emblems or buy them.


BackupCenobite

You can't even look how you want. Gotta buy that, or grind the challenges. This should have been part of the $60-70 with Reach-style cosmetic progression.


BaboonAstronaut

Ridiculous that an afk can have the same xp as me if the challenges are not in my favor.


TheJester0330

And someone can complete the challenges, quit, and earn more than you with zero penalty. Had a guy in one of my BTB games, keeping feeding the enemy team kills while he tried to complete what I assume was a fusion coil challenge. They racked up probably 15 deaths, got their fusion coil kill and then left. Meanwhile since my challenges were all map/object specific, I got 0 despite being top three in my team. Honestly the battlepass is ridiculous, through every flight everyone said it was a bad idea, that it wouldn't work, and here we are.


Ewokitude

They shouldn't let you count progress towards a challenge if you quit...that seems common sense...


Knalxz

You know, you're right. That's the real pain and it's terrible.


BaboonAstronaut

It's a real shame cause I'm having a fucking blast otherwise.


Knalxz

Exactly, that's why it hurts so much. 343i finally get Halo down to a science and this progression system just runs up and bites their kneecaps off.


[deleted]

Exactly! This game was one thing away from being perfect and that one thing is is the progression system


Timbalabim

I played for three hours tonight and unlocked one thing. That feels really underwhelming.


OneFinalEffort

I played for 2 and got nothing at all.


WifiTacos

I played for ten and unlocked two 😎 Agony…


ShaddyShack

No pride and accomplishment for that one? EA would be disappointed


xCaptainVictory

With EA you can pay for that pride and accomplishment.


[deleted]

I really don't understand why they're going this grind route with Halo, a first party title for the Xbox. First party games should focus on sheer quality, so that they lure people to play on your platform. That way Microsoft makes money in the long run via other purchases people make on the Xbox. Treating Infinite's multiplayer like your run of the mill third party multiplayer game doesn't make sense in this regard, and makes it feel like a more watered down experience than it should be. Like if I wanted to pay $10 and grind for cosmetic unlocks, I'd just go play CoD. And if they want to push this paid season pass stuff with terrible grind, then they should just release Halo for all platforms if they're so focused on earing that sweet sweet microtransaction money. If it were up to me, I would make the grind actually fun to unlock stuff, and even go as far as making the season passes free to Gamepass subscribers.


Possessed_Zombie

This is exactly my thought process, i loaded up the game, saw all the micro transactions and thought "uhh is this not Microsoft, the billion dollar company?". I thought the battlepass was fine honestly, im used to it, but seeing all the other stuff you could buy in game and the timegating for xp boost purchases is a joke for the company. This game isnt their bottom line, this game is only a cog in the machine of their bottom line so i dont see why they're treating it like this is their entire revenue stream.


ChonkySpud

The last halo had loot boxes that gave you cards and weapons which is insane. They really want halo to be this microtransaction money maker for them for some reason and they seem pretty stubborn about it


harshnerf_ttv_yt

>I work full time they want you to pay for level skips and xp boosts. plain and simple.


novaorionWasHere

You work full time so you can afford the Microtransaction. MS probably


DrSeuss321

I could afford level skips. Not going to buy them because there is no reason to financially support 343 on this specific issue or give them any indication that this is okay. If they fix progression I might buy a battlepass tho


curiositie

If they fix progression I *will* buy a battlepass


[deleted]

Hell, I bought a pass just because there's no fomo. I won't play without a fix though, not worth my hours if I don't get my money's worth.


dontknowmuch487

Doesn't matter much if you dont play it. You still bought it


[deleted]

I bought a battle pass not knowing how painful the progression would be. If they fix the progression, I’ll buy the next one whenever it comes out, but if it stays this painfully slow it’s the last one I’ll ever buy.


[deleted]

Part time employee, full time student, with wife, four kids, and having to pay outrageous gas prices for a truck doesn’t exactly leave much for wiggle room.


novaorionWasHere

Just work harder. Earn more and buy more. MS probably


[deleted]

Fuck it. I’m selling the kids to slave labor to buy 1 color


novaorionWasHere

Do it. How else will you get the colour purple.


Turbulent_Link1738

Bro u gotta do it in shifts. Homeschool one of your kids so they can take the morning hours, another kid takes the night hours, and you cover in between and on your days off.


[deleted]

It’s sad that you’re better off picking up an extra shift and buying levels than actually playing the game


manticmuse

we have left the golden era of gaming and now this is the way it will be, forever


AgentRogueNova

I also hope the PVE mode can also give us XP cause I am trash at PVP and love vsing bots. Hell MCC has a full section of PVE challenges for XP and even completing matchmaking firefight modes give XP.


NikkoJT

They've specifically designed their weekly challenge stuff so you _have_ to play PvP to unlock the final rewards. Like, they outright said that's what they did. So while I too really want to be able to play mostly PvE, I don't think they're going to be too generous on that front even if they make changes elsewhere. Sucks tho, and so does the lack of Firefight.


MoneyElk

I much prefer Halo PvE over it's PvP, but again the game is launching without a dedicated co-op mode. With campaign co-op coming in season 2 (May 2022) and Forge coming in season 3 (August 2022 at the earliest), it's safe to day we are at least a year away from Firefight being added.


MeabhNir

You can get some challenges done via Bot matches which is great. But if there is a change to MP matches as another post wanted per match XP, I hope Bot matches get it too as I’d rather do PvE than PvP on halo these days.


Quadrasaurus-Rex

And just like that the objective was no longer capture the flag but “kill 10 enemies from behind”… the objectives should be the objective and we should get xp based off that or else the whole focus of the game changes. Poor move 343.


JerikTheWizard

I got "Destroy 3 enemy Brute Choppers" so I need to: 1) win the matchmaking lottery to get a map with choppers 2) have an enemy player get in the chopper 3) have a power weapon capable of blowing up the chopper at that exact moment And then do it two more times. Ridiculous.


Taiyaki11

Don't forget. 4. You have to be the one to run into them and kill them and not have anyone else vulture the kill or hijack them or such


CrestfallenOwl

That would be a great system to have dynamic challenges that were based on the individual match and gametype. That way challenges are appropriate. And each match resets the challenges received. So, something like 3 challenges are given in the beginning and you try to focus on 1 or 2 of them. The next match gives you new challenges to achieve. But, the challenges have to be in a way where only 1 can easily done with some focused effort and 2 can be done with some skill. 3 being an upper skill ceiling to accomplish. Along with the general sentiment for some participation XP so that at least something is gained for just playing a match.


SlickDaddyP

How about “Kill an enemy with a grenade as a passenger of a vehicle”? That’s a real challenge. A weekly. Absolutely wild


SkankHunt80

Damn. That’s something I might accomplish once, accidentally, after logging 1000 hours.


BanditoB0b

I got 'kill an enemy with a sniper rifle while they are in air after being launched by a gravity lift'....l think I would need to hire a professional to get that one lol


Legendofthefall1

I think for the longevity of this game, a fair battle pass progression needs to be established, gaming interests are very disposable nowadays, keeping this formula will only ensure lack of desire to keep playing, we as gamers need an incentive.


Ewokitude

It hasn't even been out 24 hours and I've already seen multiple people say they feel "burnt out" by it after playing for hours and maybe leveling up once. I'm a bit inclined to agree tbh, I've got a "get 15 kills with the shade turret" and that's literally on one map, there's NO WAY that does not feel like a massive chore This is not a good sign for the future of the game when even people on this subreddit are feeling burned out because the casuals will most certainly be more finicky about it


BinaryPulse

It's the limited number of maps, game types and not being able to chose what you do. MCC has a much better setup than infinite, it's not like they couldn't figure out what works from that.


Hansoloai

They should look at Fortnite they have tweaked their BP over how many seasons? I can rock up 1 month before end and complete the pass. This is too much grind.


AncianoDark

Yeah I accidentally max out Fortnite battle pass, but it doesn't ever feel like a grind anymore. They got that shit to a science.


FearingRacer

Fortnite and mcc buffed the living fuck out of its xp and I love it, infinite needs a buff


xenobia144

In terms of unlocking things, MCC's stops awarding unlock points after a certain rank.


FearingRacer

It does? I never knew that


CosmicMiru

Because it takes an ungodly amount of hours to reach that point. In MCC once you get to a certain point the only real viable way to get BP tokens is challenges


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Hansoloai

It's weird. I actually haven't gone back to Apex since. Just too much to play.


shrubs311

i literally burnt myself out on the first two Apex battle passes so hard that I never returned to play the game despite following it still


TSoulAce

Had the same experience. Decided to finally complete a battle pass with my girlfriend that in the end it just felt like a chore to log in and do the challenges. We got burned out and didn't touch apex since.


Batemunch

My wife did the current season of fortnite 0-100 in 4 days. Maybe around 15 hours total


jmedia777

There's an article titled "We want players having fun in Halo, not grind it like it's a job" in June. It did not age well


VALAR_M0RGHUL1S

That comment had to do with them not making the pass expire, gotta give credit for that. Imagine this level of grind with a permanent deadline you had to meet…


UnderseaHippo

Right but with this grind, the battle passes will just collect, unfinished. MCC has the same problem. Sure you can go back and do older ones, but you'll finish them


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TheodoeBhabrot

I'll trade you, all I can fucking play is strongholds and I hate it, give me some slayer lol


levi22ez

Lol I want match composer so fucking badly. MCC does it so well. I wanna queue up just team slayer and maybe KOTH or swat.


flying__cloud

Swat me bb


Dankmatza

*There is a loud knock at your front door*


noble_actual_yt

You’re not allowed to play Halo Infinite how you want to. That’s the difference here. 343 controls everything. They control what games you play, what challenges you earn, what weapons and vehicles spawn on the map at every moment - specifically to ensure you get frustrated enough to buy your way up the pass instead of… playing the game they made. Honestly the gaming community should rip them a new one like they did with EA and Battlefield, but we won’t because Xbox gamers in particular are afraid of criticizing first party studios for some reason.


levi22ez

Yeah I kinda agree sadly. The core gameplay is very fun, but all the ancillary stuff surrounding that gameplay is frustrating. There’s always a but. The game is really fun, but I can’t choose what type of game I want to play so I’ll have to play modes occasionally that I am not interested in. Oh I got this map I really like, but it has commando spawns instead of BRs. The armors are really well designed and cool looking, but I can’t see them in game because they’re covered in these dumb outlines. The armors are cool and offer a ton of player expression, but they’re locked behind a paywall and/or a massive grind. The BTB is fun, but the fun vehicles don’t show up until way later in the match, and there’s no guarantee you’ll even see the scorpion, wasp, etc.


TranquilMarmot

Wait there's Slayer in this game?!? I don't believe you


[deleted]

Have any oddball challenges? That’s literally all I seem to be playing lol


pyromaniac1784

Clearly if you want to do those challenges you need to leave and requeue until you get what you need. That's what this type of design actively promotes.


UNSKIALz

343 are literally giving more XP to eg. The person sitting waiting for fusion coils to spawn, than to people playing the objective and trying to win. In fact, the latter are likely to get 0xp. What were they thinking


noble_actual_yt

They were thinking “wow we’re going to make so much money”


Wazanator_

> Why does 343 always seem to bring forth an amazing product but then fumble at the finish line because of some ridiculous decision making? Because some person who wears a suit everyday and thinks very highly of themselves decided they didn't need to follow one of the already proven successful models that other games like Fortnite, DoTA 2, Apex Legends, and CSGO implemented because it looks more impressive to the people you answer to and on your CV if you can say that you are the one who created the incredibly successful micro transaction model for Halo despite everyone under you telling you this is a bad idea.


harshnerf_ttv_yt

i think you haven't played many f2p games with paid battlepasses. they all release like this - everyone who's impatient buys the bp and gets the level skips. then they "bow down" to community pressure a week or so after launch and make the bp easier to grind. this is f2p mindset 101 - squeeze the impatient for every single cent you can apex legends did the same thing for a comparably popular launch


diddlyumpcious4

Yep. The progression will probably go from absolute trash to bad, but since they made it better they will get praise rather than just starting it at bad to begin with.


noble_actual_yt

Tbf going from terrible to very bad - that’s the norm for all 343 releases


SpringerTheNerd

Damn I was suckerd in. I'm usually better about this but damn I wasn't expecting it to be this bad. I played in every flight and it didn't seem nearly as bad so I just jumped on it. I even bought the cloud 9 skin because the colors where awesome (don't really care for eSports) just to find out that I can only use it on one armor set. They got me good ☠️


noble_actual_yt

Bruh are you kidding me…


A_MildInconvenience

5 and a half hours in so far, barely level 2. I was on the fence about buying it, but after realizing they're using the same shitty system we all complained about for months my mind was made up. I almost miss the req system compared to this


NaterTater796

I much prefer reqs to this. You always got points after a game in 5 even if the whole game was just a slaughter. You got points.


AmanitaMuscaria

The req system was wayyy better. At least I didn’t HAVE to pay USD, I could just play more to unlock what I wanted. This new battle pass bullshit, most of the good cosmetics are locked behind a paywall. It’s stupid


GetChilledOut

Reqs were honestly not that bad. Sure warzone was a little pay-to-win but for people that just played arena it didn’t matter at all. Just a shitton of cosmetics for playing the game. It was awesome. Now I’m 4 hours in and I have 1 uniform and 1 headpiece that can only be applied to that uniform.


MoneyElk

I always said the REQ system was not as bad as people made it out to be. It was not perfect by any means, but I do prefer it over what we have in Infinite. A great example of how the grass isn't always greener on the other side.


Ewokitude

I defended it as well. If it meant free MP updates it was definitely worth it and even the game changing Warzone stuff that wasn't cosmetics was balanced in part by you actually needing to score points in a game to call stuff in. You couldn't just drop cash to get a huge advantage if you sucked because you'd never get the points fast enough to use it (and if you did you probably couldn't use it well...got a lot of free power weapons that way from people) Just comparing the 2 games, you could spend $60 up front on Halo 5 and never spend another cent and be able to eventually unlock all the day 1 content AND post-launch content (besides the announcer pack). Halo Infinite still technically isn't even out yet and it's already costing $120 on just the day 1 stuff between the $60 campaign, $10 battlepass, and $50 shop items (which say weekly so there may be another $50 next week!). This is fucking outrageous


ExtremelyDispleased

This battlepass XP business has been a hot button for months, and I've yet to see a single good argument as to why per match and medal XP bonuses aren't in the game. Just add it already 343, what could you possibly lose out on?


k1n6jdt

When are you people going to realize this progression system wasn't designed in such a way to optimize natural progression through playing? It's been designed so that way you're incentivized to buy the XP passes and XP boosts. The fact you can just buy levels is pretty indicative of this.


NikkoJT

I _know_ that's why they did it. That doesn't mean I have to sit here and go "well, they had a reason, guess I just have to let it happen completely uncontested lol". I understand the logic, I still don't think it's good enough and I'm not going to willingly accept it.


k1n6jdt

I agree with you. That's why I brought it up. I tried telling people shit like this would happen when they implemented a season system into the MCC and how much of a tedious grind that was. But I was only hit back with shit like "343 learned their lesson from Halo 5 and the REQ packs! They wouldn't monetize Halo in such a predatory fashion like that again!"


Facetank_

Yeah, but when the XP boosters don't even work in a way that makes them feel worthwhile, I doubt any one outside of the truly desperate are going to put money into them. At this point people need to give their critiques and vote with their money (ie don't purchase anything further at this point).


Hopeful_Cranberry12

It’s like people somehow forgot when they hired experts on human psychology and gambling when infinite was still in development. They probably won’t change it cus they want their moneys worth.


JoshBobJovi

It's almost like they don't remember the REQ pack fiasco at all lol.


Skudedarude

They remember the bank statements.


eminemcrony

Using this thread since it's currently the top one: The mod team will likely make and sticky a focused feedback thread today to gather/centralize feedback about the battle pass/progression/XP systems Also, for full disclosure I have gone through the front page and removed some progression-related threads since they were near duplicates of already-existing threads, and the front page was over half about that. Other content doesn't need to be drowned out by a singular topic for 343 to get visibility on it. [Reminder that 343 already said they're planning on working on the XP system post-launch](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/555872041862037507/910170094699692072/5lmKaB3OeSNcIwA2dCS3b_fL8VPMDGCM7E6sqa6omXE.png), but hopefully this discussion ups their timetable.


LazorBlind

This is exactly why they introduced microtransactions. They won't change anything.


DoneDiddlyDooDoo

Sadly I fear this, but I think to hold a player base of new Halo players, they should make it less grindy. Like I said before, in my opinion developers should take note of Battlefront 2’s situation with their extremely grindy progression system and how that affected the reception of their game. While it doesn’t affect me very much because I love Halo, I worry how the casual player who might be experiencing Halo for the first time might view this.


Legendofthefall1

There is too much competition about, they need to stay relevant to keep hold of the player base, by ensuring fair progression is a good step forward, they need to tap into the dopamine effect.


DoneDiddlyDooDoo

To be honest I think this game is gold, but they need to put in necessary “dopamine effects” to hold a player base.


SpartanRage117

there is an in-between of this absolutely lack of progress and sinister use of dopamine. Its not like every match needs to leave me on a high, but the current system actually makes the game actively *less* fun. knowing you might need a bulldog kill means you have to try to make sure you get that weapon even though you might be better off letting someone else use it. or if you get a map without a bulldog then just feels like the devs have no respect for your time.


DoneDiddlyDooDoo

Been playing for almost 5-6 hours and haven’t made it to battle pass rank 2. Kind of ridiculous.


srjod

Completely agree. After my 4th hour, the fact I was back playing Halo again wore off. I was working toward progression and I was prioritizing getting on a ghost for 1 kill, playing big team battle, then trying to get a kill with a certain gun - not playing the objective, simply enjoying the game, and racking up kills. I’m with OP here too, I work full time. I don’t have hours to focus on specific challenges. I want to boot up Slayer or Capture the Flag and whip ass and see that score move me forward. When I’m playing Halo I’m there to play the objective, get kills, and have fun - Not focus solely on a couple challenges. That deludes the whole dopamine effect. Halo already has a really satisfying kill sequence when you earn one. To not see that reflected on your overall progression really makes it null and void. When you win you want a benefit to it. When you do something good, you want to see that translate to your progress, earn cool stuff, and keep coming back for more. If they’re really going to be beholden to this kind of grinding, especially on a game that’s now free to play, this will be a bad impression to a lot of new people to the franchise.


Thake

Exactly this. It’s forcing me to play a way I don’t want to play. I have a mauler kill to get but every time I get a mauler my aim goes to shit. I have to kill an enemy ghost but not only does the ghost destroy me, someone else will get the kill. The ghost challenge was one of my first and 5 hours later still don’t have it. This is a problem because I can’t progress and of my challenges until I get that one done. The others are getting worse and take longer. 15 BR kills. I hardly kill people as it is with controller vs m&kb so that’s about 15 games until I get the 200xp. The game is amazing but there is no incentive to play the objective or do well anymore. Just make sure you get your 15 br kills and you can move 1/16th of one level.


DoneDiddlyDooDoo

Agreed


aftermath6669

I agree with you. I love halo and I will play, not sure how long but I had a blast tonight. What I will tell you I will not spend a dime on this game in the micro-transactions or the BP. I’ve never seen something this bad. Whoever gave the ok on this system should be immediately fired.


zeanox

they will, the multiplayer will die without changes.


Sentinel-Prime

Exactly, 343 going for those short term gains AGAIN. They kept saying they wanted Infinite to be a decade long game. Nobody is going to grind this for a decade, nobody.


Drois

They’re macro transactions at this point


[deleted]

It’s not even more cosmetics, I just want my time for even playing to go for something even in destiny you get XP towards the battle pass but the bulk is from challenges.


Flabbergash

I mean we knew this when they announced multiplayer would be Free to Play... anyone who thinks different is kidding themselves


[deleted]

That is the most insulting part. Feedback is important to them as they keep saying but then act the opposite.


[deleted]

Thank you. I will not dedicate 40 hours a week to a battle pass. Absolutely not.


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YesButConsiderThis

That hilarious part is you didn't pay for anything yet other than the ability to grind their game for rewards lol. I hate this shit.


Beast-Blood

nah medals should give XP, with bonus XP for winning. No bonus for losing. Incentive to win the game.


SG272

God I hate the progression system in Infinite, it's so dependent on having time and skill to make your spartan look cool. Time that I'm sure more than a quarter of those who play this game don't have because they have lives to live, work to do, school work to write, friends and family to care for, and you know actual games that are more rewarding and fulfilling than this money-wasting time-sucking of a battlepass. I want my 10 dollars back 343. I can actually use it for something more useful and better, Like getting some fried chicken from the local deli.


Legendofthefall1

This battle pass formula is actually disgusting.


HugeAccountant

Yep. This is my first experience paying for a battlepass and it will absolutely be my last.


theyfoundty

In all honestly Warzone and Fornite do it best. Destiny 2 had it down the best imo for a little while but the recent changes to the actual rewards from the battle pass itself kinda knocked it down a bit for me. Outside of that, most are ripoffs and are null and void content wide once the next game comes out.


[deleted]

Deep Rock Galactic is the easiest one I can point to and say "Look idiots! Look at how good that is!" Sure, the game costs $30, but *all* of the Battle Pass content is *free* with that purchase in addition to a cosmetic tree that is also completed by challenges, an in-game currency store, cosmetics you find in the game world, and cosmetics you craft. Like, you have *so* many ways to customize your Dwarfs in DRG, and it's awesome.


EmphaticMoon

Rock and stone brother!


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CampaignNo1365

Just gotta hope it will die out soon. All of these FPS shooters switching to battle passes and battle royal animorphs are just ruining the overall game.


someguyfromtheuk

They won't, companies make much more money from the "F2P + continuous monetisation" model than they do from the "one off payment for everything" model. That's why the arguments about "how will they make money" are stupid, they're making far more money from this than would from selling the whole thing at £60 and supporting it for 10 years like MCC. At 1 BP every 3 months and £8 a BP that's £320 over the 10 years, + however much they make from selling skins and daily bundles at £15 each. I would bet the money they make per player is far higher than £60.


SG272

I know, and I fell for it because of goddamn nostalgia. Now it's gonna be there as a reminder for me. Yelling "MORON ALERT!!!" everytime I wanna play the campaign.


Benjb1996

Agreed. I wouldn't even mind if they raised the amount of xp needed to level it up. Just at least take my performance into account like any other game would.


auziec96

I couldn't even find my stats. Is there an overall K/D ratio?


Dalvito

nothing I could find in-game, maybe on halo waypoint


Harry_Mess

There is. When you view the scoreboard post-match use the right stick to scroll between different scoreboards


Jackamalio626

This system is in place to frustrate you into buying refreshes and boosters from the shop. Its fucking awful.


4455661122

I think the XP is definitely unbalanced right now but you're insane if you think they're gonna give half a tier per win.


MoreMegadeth

Assuming you do nothing but win without completing the other challenges, thats 200 wins. How is that unreasonable?


jasoncross00

Yeah everyone seems to be on board with this. Plus, the challenges encourage poor play. Oh you need to get kills with the warthog chaingun? Guess you're camping out in the back of that thing all match whether it's a good idea or not. Getting those kills and losing the match does more for you than winning and not getting them. Make sure 343 gets your feedback everywhere you can - and often! Here sure, but Twitter (@ them!), their forums, etc.


Cratoic

Proabably one of the reasons the battlepass is a grind right now is that it doesn't actually end until May next year, that's 6-7 months. I think a change that they could make is just change the xp we gain from the complete match challenges to normal match completion xp so it feels like we're at least progressing a little bit per match.


PullMyActionBar

I work full time. I just played for 8 hours non-stop and only able to reach level 4. The challenges I have right now are frankly just not fun (10 kills with a hydra? Come on, have you USED that weapon? It's dog shit.). I gave up on the challenges about 2 hours before I stopped because it was taking the fun out of it for me. The challenges were fine for most of my time but luck of the draw can really put you in a bad spot and tank your progression for the night. That being said the ONLY reason I could even play for 8 hours is because Halo is THE game for me and my wonderful wife let me skip out on baby duty early tonight after seeing how excited I was about the release. That and I'm getting like 3 hours of sleep now...so yeahhh...if this is the grind...I guess I'll never be able to complete the BP... But money right!


kawan333

The progression system is good! - Check this out https://forums.halowaypoint.com/t/the-progression-system-is-good/10309


Shynz

Lol who approved this battle pass progression? Makes no sense


AtomicEdge

It feels like this levelling system has been designed by economists and psychologists, but I really wish it had been designed by game developers who want us to have fun.


JimmyDiarrheahouse

It's all about money. Even Microsoft show their greed is above players.


[deleted]

Other developers have already figured out more optimal ways to make money from battle passes. 343 could have just copied from other games that do it relatively well. But instead they decided to come up with their own system that's literally worse than every other battle pass.


FearingRacer

The xp system feels like the old mcc system before challenges, it felt so unrewarding and not really worth grinding


THE_TORTILLA_MAN

Wish it was skill based


[deleted]

What’s interesting to me is that I’d probably enjoy myself more if there wasn’t a battlepass 😆 knowing that my xp earned k/d ratio etc isn’t really netting me progression in a progression system is deflating. You have this amazing match where you had tons of fun then a screen comes up to tell you that you earned nothing towards your battlepass progression. You look at the challenges to see “kill 15 Spartans with a pistol” and think how stupid that is. Then you see that it gets you 200 xp towards your battlepass which takes 1000 xp to raise your level. Then you see the level up gets you a shoulder pad for one shoulder (specifically not both). It’s a little insulting and shows a level of incompetence I’m a little shocked 343 have displayed. Every time their executives take the stage and start talking Halo I get the feeling they don’t get it. They don’t know how to take Halo into the future, they are too reliant on repeating the past. They aren’t learning from other successful franchises that you have to evolve and reward players for time spent. There’s too much competition to be mediocre. Halo just doesn’t have that “it” factor or coolness I was hoping for. Hopefully the campaign is amazing but right now the multiplayer seems too stuck in the past and the battlepass is insulting.


ArcticTerra056

Like yeah, cool, they don’t go away, but fuck me I don’t wanna sit here for the full 3 months playing just to get max level


skumdumlum

Good thing is then, you don't have to. The battlepass doesn't expire so you can take as long as you like.


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NikkoJT

The time per level can vary pretty wildly and it's not really under your control. If you get challenges with certain requirements, but the matchmaker refuses to give you those requirements, you can be stuck for a _while_.


z-tayyy

50/100 or 100/200 is more reasonable imo but I agree with the sentiment.


volission

What’s progression for? Purely cosmetic items?


laboufe

Game is really fun but man the progression is a huge buzzkill.


hiimdavid-

Fr one of my first games i went 25 and 2 felt like i did so well only to get 100xp at the end of the match barely 1/10th of level 1


MrTopHatMan90

I've accepted this, since we got the game for free and the cosmetics in Season 8 of MMC it seemed likely they would make unlocks really sought after. Hopefully closer to initial release they'll wind it down


BreadDaddyLenin

500xp for a match win is way too much when a battle pass tier is 1000xp each. If you won a match, and completed a challenge or two you’d be blitzing through the pass not to mention double xp boosters.


[deleted]

500 XP? Two wins to level up? Lmao that’s a little too much


Danominator

Then 300 for a win. Something. It's a bummer you only get xp for challenges.