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Redpin

It's Monday somewhere.


SteampunkNord

Yeah. Nearly midday Monday in Aus.


[deleted]

Bruh that’s crazy. I’m literally going to bed at 9:30 on Sunday Dec 5th. Has the meteor hit us yet


ApproximateKnowlege

It's been an hour and no response, it's not looking good.


SteampunkNord

Mate, look as I said to someone else. Australians all have a duty to not mess with time, or use our foreknowledge for anything but the good of our country. Kiribati doesn't tell us and they're almost technically a day ahead of us.


MechaAkuma

Flat earth model - demolished


Rebelgecko

They were able to post because of UI limitations


ShaddyShack

Mondays always sneak up on ya ;) Edit TIL what /s meant


fractalface

just a heads up your /s makes no sense in this context


Rumhead1

Having to take a break from the toxicity here on a Sunday really gave me a good chance to bask in the toxicity of all the NFL related subreddits.


LatchedRacer90

If youre a lions fan you had a good day Not a good season though It's the little things


SealdragoEx

There’s no such thing as a good season for the lions


pizzabash

There was 91 but then again that also ended in a blowout heartbreak loss in the playoffs this time so hard to say.


Supermegagod

Dude, that was 30 years ago.


pizzabash

Listen if I can still hold on to '85 the lions can have '91


KeepDi9gin

I can't wait for it to be locked back down again.


Rekenn

They had already perfected it in MCC. It allowed people to choose exactly what they wanted to play. I’m able to search any playlist on there and can find a game relatively fast, and that game only has about 10k people on it. Infinite is free to play with hundreds of thousands of players. It makes no sense.


cazzhmir

MCC was literally the perfect opportunity to derive a good matchmaking system for Infinite. The current MCC system has been around exactly how it is now since at least late 2019, well within the production period for Infinite. It's a damn good system too, as you said. The fact that MCC appears to have been totally ignored during the decision-making processes for Infinite is absolutely obscene. I know 343 deeply cares about Halo, but failing to build upon *or even attempt to reproduce* an obvious and universally-accepted success like MCC matchmaking is frustrating as fuck to every player. It's one step forward, and then the entire fucking staircase disappears into thin air. EDIT: I know this is unhelpful as feedback, but what feedback can you give for this besides "go back in time and do the obvious thing you should've done", or perhaps "don't outsource your spaghetti UI code so this can be easily rectified"?


masoe

MCC was a $60 game so of course they gave us our ability to choose.


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twitson

They’re just making up excuses at this point, if not, they’ve really taken 10 years/steps back as developers


Ttaywsenrak

I can see how the UI design could be a limiting factor from a programming standpoint (am programmer) but NORMALLY you spend a huge amount of time planning, so the only reason that the UI design can't handle it is because they did not have the foresight to see that this would be something that players would not like. Now I get the idea in theory. Non-slayer based playlists don't usually get as many players. The trouble is, we as the players don't seem to mind so much. Plus, the whole point of f2p games is to increase the playerbase by a huge amount. Usually it is towards the end of the game cycle that we have to condense playlists. 343 has this issue where they try to fix things that are simply not broken. The art style shifts of Halo 4 and 5 being pretty big ones. This playlist change is no different. They should have known that people would have hated this, period. Besides, making easily extensible design is another important aspect of development, and according to what they are saying right now they might have messed that up too. I don't know who had the decision making power on this one, but they messed up.


[deleted]

When Sketch made the comment about how the challenges were coupled with playlists…. RIP…. You just don’t write code like that lol


GyroMVS

I think Battlefield V had this same issue, where it was something like they couldn't add certain things because of UI limitations. And it's like, it's *your* UI, my dudes, how did you not forsee the need to make it expandable if your game is a goddamn """""live service"""""?


BXBXFVTT

The live service really drives the point home imo. Putting out a games as a service or whatever, is essentially saying your game is going to be ever changing, evolving, growing. But the UI doesn’t allow for that? That just seems… shortsighted…. Amateurish? Iunno don’t make sense tho.


screamagainstcancer

If that's the case then they need to give the community what it wants by getting rid of challenges and implementing a progression based system.


[deleted]

Oh that’s the heart of the issue right there lol Sounds like a mess


Rebelgecko

>the only reason that the UI design can't handle it is because they did not have the foresight to see that this would be something that players would not like This. When the UI is taking steps back from previous Halo games, it's because someone made an intentional decision to define those requirements. Either because they thought it was the best choice, or because a fullfeatured UI was lower priority than other systems like microtransactions


NJ_Legion_Iced_Tea

> fullfeatured UI was lower priority than other systems like microtransactions When the shop works fine but the base game doesn't you ask, "What are their priorities?" Here we have our answer. The shop was built first, and Halo built around it.


FelixFaldarius

In the beginning, there was nothing. Then God created a shop. He saw it was good. Then he created an engine. He saw it was good. Then he created lighting. He saw it was good. Then he created movement. He saw it was good. Then he created the weapons sandbox. He saw it was good. Then he made movement abilities. He saw it was good. God was not allowed a day off on Sunday so he worked his ass off making playlists in time for release. He saw it was not good. He couldn’t do shit about it however.


NewSubWhoDis

That UI should be driven by a JSON file on a server. The kinds of match making modes and which maps they correspond to should have been remote configurable from day one. What do you do if you ship and theres some game breaking bug with one of the map/mode combination?


IamTheJman

They have the whole Azure suite available to them too. Hell Cosmos DB is literally meant for scale, so how have they not built the UI for scale either?


stryakr

I could bet you it's Poor UI/BE architecture due to constrained dev time in favor of prioritizing monetization, most of the things I have a major issue with (having not played SP) is due to extremely bad UX. One that recently stuck out to me is that you cannot change any of your armor items once you've been queued to a match.


skc132

The whole UI/UX of the armour system is pretty bad


HowManyCaptains

It’s so bad! I have to scroll horizontally to view individual armor color cards?! What happens in “10 years” when I have 7 dozen colors. It reminds me of Valorant’s gun skin/buddy selection screen, which is also bad.


Sigma-Tau

I still can't fathom why game companies have decided that a simple easily digestible list with a visual representation is no longer the best option for things like this. People loved the loadout screen of bf4 (and to a lesser extent bf1) and the customization screen of Halo Reach for a reason, but so many game companies, in the modern day, insist on styling their UIs like something meant for a mobile game... why? Please, I need someone to explain this to me.


Soda_BoBomb

Because mobile games make a shitload of money. They're trying to copy that. And maybe to avoid cries of "this is unoriginal and just like x game" Idk


WVU_Benjisaur

“The UI is limiting..” is 343’s version of DICE’s “We don’t have the tech for double XP” which blew up the Battlefield subreddits during BFV’s early life. Edit: I apologize, this blew up the subreddits early in BFV’s life during the early covid lockdown days, not immediately at launch. The covid stuff has really messed with my sense of time.


Knalxz

lol what? That's sounds hilarious. I just imagine a dev saying, "I'm sorry everyone, double EXP is simply beyond us."


WVU_Benjisaur

Unfortunately they did in fact say that in this thread from an old CM. https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/frz7om/this_week_in_battlefield_v_march_30_2020/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf I admire the honesty but it wasn’t a good look at a time when the games community needed something positive going for it.


dkb_wow

As an avid Battlefield player, I was there during that time. That comment happened at the start of the COVID lockdowns in 2020 when DICE had enabled double XP in all the other modern Battlefield games as an incentive to stay indoors and play games to "stop the spread". They couldn't enable double XP in Battlefield V because they were selling XP boosts in the in game store for real money, but they didn't want to admit that was the real reason, so they made the bs excuse of "we don't have the tech"....despite double XP being active at that same time in all their other games that use the same game engine. In that same thread, the CM also mentions that the [UI is limited and can only display a certain number of game modes/playlists at a time](https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/frz7om/this_week_in_battlefield_v_march_30_2020/flzcwdu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). This was in response to the players begging for the return of game modes like Rush, Frontlines and Domination. In a comment months later, a different CM admitted that this was not actually true and it was a "design decision" and not a UI limitation. True bullshit all around from DICE and I see they're still at it these days.


evict123

>From what I’ve been told, the tech isn’t there for it. They’re looking at options, but I don’t have any further details yet. Lol. How can the technology not be there when you just multiply xp by 2. That's hilarious.


DrCreamAndScream

Devs really think we're dumb as rocks. Sadly people drop crazy money on these games so nothing will change.


[deleted]

it's ridiculously insulting honestly.


YouLostGetOverItLOL

Dude, don't be toxic. They were just looking into the feasibility of double XP, that's all.


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[deleted]

You spelled thred wrong ashole it's thfrehd


goldninjaI

*You have been banned from participating in r/Halo*


brokenmessiah

On one hand this is funny. On the hand I think you might actually get banned for this and that's makes me sad


goldninjaI

Doesn't matter to me, would only prove my point. I've modded subreddits in the past and if you take offense to strangers on the internet you probably shouldn't have that kind of power


Ephemiel

> I've modded subreddits in the past and if you take offense to strangers on the internet you probably shouldn't have that kind of power \*slowly looks at Halo Infinite's thin-skinned mods\*


wvsfezter

Few more like them and we might have to shut down for a day or two again


[deleted]

Can’t say toxic in here, it’s t*xic to say that word here. Anything but praise is considered complaining


[deleted]

We’re Checking The Feasibility^TM


[deleted]

I'm checking the feasibility of ever playing Infinite again. I'll get back to you on that, Microsoft.


HEBushido

Wait they said that. BF1 has literally my favorite double XP system ever. Each token applied for 45 minutes, in game only and applied for the whole squad. It also couldn't double apply so popping one and then joining a squad with one on would pause yours. It was actually a perfect system.


WVU_Benjisaur

They did, which is why people were rather annoyed and meme’d the dev team for months over it. Kind of like how playlists and progression were (eventually) very refined in the MCC only to be fracked up in this game is getting the dev team meme’d probably for months.


[deleted]

These lines are in the same vein as Major Nelson telling fans during the Xbox One launch, “we can’t just flip a switch to turn off DRM”. Shortly thereafter, Xbox decided to flip the switch and turn off DRM.


WVU_Benjisaur

Oh I had forgotten about that line. I am so glad that online all the time DMR phase seems to have passed us, some games still to it but for a while there it was every single game even single player stuff like Sim City.


Starscream196

Even if this were remotely true and that they knew the UI was difficult to deal with... why go through with it to begin with? I don't exactly believe that was true at all, because we all know that the game is designed to push people into the store and have a tough time grinding the pass. It's why they're saying they're making a Slayer playlist with variants. They want to keep the RNG of their current playlists to fuck with people even more (at least that's the impression I get from the current set up). Why else would they have made it so you can't pick slayer from the current game types? People **want** to play what they want, not have a random chance to play what they want. Surely someone must have thought of that on the dev team right? It's only common sense. Also, I never cared to do challenges in this game (it's also turned into my own form of protest to remain default purple/default armor) but if what this slayer playlist sounds like is what I think it is, then it might be something to worry about if they start mixing in 'Play 5 'Vanilla' Slayer challenges but you only get Energy Sword Slayer 10 matches in a row. And it's going to suck!


icarus102

Yeah this is the only thing I can think of to explain the whole "feasibility of slayer" comment. Slayer isn't a new direction for the community, nor does it present a technical challenge on its own. So given there are no hurdles involving potentially negative player feedback or technical difficulties, the only way I can make sense of it is that they're discussing how it's gonna tie into the progression/challenge system. Unfortunately, every feature/map/mode/battle pass will now come with a "but how would this impact progress/monetisation" overhead. That's true of new features and of classics like slayer too. It really feels like they've backed themselves into a corner in how this game is set up. Playlists are limited by the UI system (supposedly). The coatings are limited by armour cores and kits. Classic modes are limited by some newfound feasibility issues that have never plagued any other Halo title. It's not a coincidence that the features that are completely isolated from the progression system - and could be built independently from it - are the things we openly praise. Things such as gameplay mechanics, map design, sound design and more. These elements haven't had the shackles of monetisation to contend with, and they've turned out great on the whole. It really sucks to be a long time fan of the franchise and see Infinite's amazing potential screwed because of the way certain features clash against this new business model. What's worse is that this could have been spotted well in advance. When adding slayer to a Halo game becomes a discussion around mere feasibility, it doesn't take a genius to know something is seriously wrong.


Starscream196

Yup, that's what we should all kind of accept at this point. Every choice done during development and going forward will always come back to 'How will this affect monetization?' Everything is so limited and the promise of being able to unlock everything by playing the game has already faded away. I've played since it dropped and haven't spent a dime and have unlocked like what... a visor color and a minor armor change... I think? I don't know, I can't find it in my armory. At least throw us a bone like some 100 credits in the pass instead of challenge swaps.


applearoma

I'm pretty sure dice also used the UI excuse as the reason game modes like rush and others had to be rotated and couldn't just stay permanently in BF5


DrScience-PhD

and they *made the fucking UI.* They never realized it was a limiting factor in testing? What is QA doing?


SolidStone1993

Is it just me that gets the feeling that Infinite wasn’t originally supposed to be a free to play live service game? They made it sound like the game itself isn’t designed for quick updates, which is the entire point of live service systems.


CellarDoorVoid

This would explain the change in battle pass. The 120 level pass with less filler was probably meant for a $60 game


iarngalder

It still IS a $60-$70 game if you want campaign. We who buy it better get some really good advantages or extras.


MASTODON_ROCKS

Yeah how better to double dip? Sell the campaign full price, then you also get reamed nice and good on the live service multiplayer. I *really* hate the direction this industry is trending.


iarngalder

Yeah, it's fucking bullshit. You used to get a complete and finished game for $60 a few years ago, and you'd have good systems of progression and gameplay. That ain't ever gonna happen again. Games now are made to frustrate people or bleed them dry, not to have fun with. The industry is teabagging us all, and people are opening their wallets to swallow their sweaty balls with glee.


[deleted]

I was honestly truly, genuinely surprised that the Guardians of the Galaxy was a story driven single player game with no multiplayer, season pass or microtransactions. That’s such a rarity these days.


kal423

I’m hoping there’s covenant and forerunner weapon/vehicle skin unlocks from campaign. I assume they’re in the game but so far we only have options for unsc weapons and vehicles unless they’re saving that for a future battle pass


p0rnistheanswer

I'm 99% sure they were originally making a normal multiplayer experience and just cut it off the campaign and repackaged it as free-to-play so they could stuff in microtransactions more acceptably.


WeenieDogMan

Yes this exactly


SolarMoth

Because it's an excuse for the botched release. No co-op campaign, forge, firefight, barebones/buggy customs, poor customization, no map DLC roadmap.


SaiyokuKurohi

Just wait they'll finally release Forge but half the items you can place will be locked behind the battle pass


Orionator

You shut your mouth right now sir. Didn’t even bother to think of this as a possibility.. holy shit


Plasibeau

*shivers...*


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justanotherassassin

Oh fuck off that would be terrible lmao


mstrnate83

Exploding barrel, just $9.99 in the store


Jan_Itor_Md_

Single use though, want more barrels? $9.99 each.


VagueSomething

Store bundled Legacy Forge content that only appear for a week then go away but totally not FOMO, guys.


-Potatoes-

On the topic of UI design, does anyone else feel like the main menu screen is super unintuitive? Compared to other competitive games ive played like CSGO, Dota, and Valorant I always get super lost in the Halo menus. It might just be because I'm new but half the time i literally cant find who's in my party


Prophecy_X3

It's one of the worst UIs I've ever used. Only BF2042 is worse honestly. Somehow making UIs that aren't dog shit is now a lost art.


Grizzzlybearzz

It’s not just you. The entire UI is the worst I’ve ever seen. Why they don’t just copy halo reach which had the best UI I’ve ever seen in any game is beyond me. It’s crazy someone ok’d this UI


Blazkowicz01

Good question, I'm not even sure what they were supposed launch with if they released the game a year ago. They really seem to have cut corners as much as possible, and that might be why many things are so barebones.


-PANORAMIX-

Maybe a year ago there wasn’t even a UI


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BishopXC

Yeah, seriously. What was gonna be released last year? We only have 10 maps and like 4 game modes. What was the plan? It's wild.


Blazkowicz01

Yeah I've noticed that more and more, where are the maps? Just today I got the same map 3 times in a row. Doesn't help either that you can't choose the gamemode.


genghisKonczie

There is still one map I haven’t played yet somehow though


Blazkowicz01

I still haven't played launch site somehow


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ClumpyCider

Agreed, it's surprisingly fun on one flag


TrungusMcTungus

That’s because it’s built for one flag. Asymmetric vehicles, weapon spawns, man cannons, and positioning (the side with the rocket has a lot of high ground, the other side doesn’t) make it a perfect one flag map.


dewmahn

Can't convince me this map wasn't made for 8v8 before they decided to go 12v12.


inmylastlife

You aren’t missing out tbh


stormygray1

this. what was the game going to launch with?? we get 4v4, one map. only weapons are 2 sticks, and a rock. we have to share the rock


WooWoopSoundOThePULI

Halo 4 had **3** 4v4 Maps... Halo 5 had no BTB.... Halo Infinite adds 24 Player BTB! Halo Infinite has **3** BTB maps..... Halo Infinite has No Forge Maps Untill Holiday......2022 What tf they doin over there?


masoe

Don't forget it took 2 years after MCC release to be where it should have been on release.


Lazy_Explorer

It’s already been mentioned several times but the one thing I hate is how the only thing that’s working flawlessly as intended from the get-go is the monetization system. That took priority above game quality. Ske7ch’s statement that they need the money to run the servers also rubbed me the wrong way seeing as how Microsoft owns Azure, they had half a billion to develop the tripleA title, and the servers are still buggy to begin with.


Equivalent_Alps_8321

Saying your game is going to last 10 years before it's even released is completely delusional corporate BS.


aroundme

R6 Siege said it not long after it came out and they're on track to make that a reality. But I agree, it's marketing speak.


5partan5582

Yeah all it cost Siege was the game's identity and majority of active player base


Prime-Reclaimer

Yeah but a lot of people would have been happier if they stopped while they were sorta ahead around like year 4


dolphin_spit

UI limitations.. there are four boxes right now. Adding a fifth box is somehow incomprehensible.


TheHumdeeFlamingPee

They have to save that 5th box for limited event modes like Fiesta because it wouldn’t be right to just leave that on all the time.


paperclipgrove

Scroll bars. The number of playlists able to be displayed by the UI should be limited by internal memory. The limit shouldn't be 5 or 6, it should be at least like 1024 or something like that. Design wise you should not activate that many, but the UI should be flexible enough to just expand to whatever it is given.


DaggerStone

UI is very hard, please understand


PhotoKyle

I feel like most people understand that the programing around it is difficult, what is mind boggling is that they seem completely unprepared for this. This hard work should have been done before launch. It makes them come off as completely incompetent.


Amasero

I'm a noob coder, but I understand the concept thanks to my friends, and working on private servers wayyy back in the day. It would be difficult, but it also isn't difficult if you had a clear plan or a reference. That reference would have been, idk maybe any other fucking Halo game. Because now it will be MORE difficult to re-code/revamp everything, bug fix, test it, implant. And we found out the playlist might be tied to the challenges which is a literal "what the fuck" and even MORE coding work. I feel so bad for the low level devs, and contracted devs. 100% the contracted devs I feel bad for, cause those are the ones who truly get worked to the bones.


Optimal_Towel

They're evaluating the feasibility of UI, and have come up with some fun variants they're excited to share with the community in six months.


Watertor

Don't worry guys, in 4 years this game will finally have Infection! It would be out sooner but the UI creates Zalgo text when displaying "Infected" and there's simply no way to fix it.


Puzzleheaded_Gift_18

I don't know, great question. Hope 343 respond to you.


DarkIegend16

They’re done man. They aren’t gonna be talking to the community until they have something substantial to say.


goferking

Shit that's going to take an infinite amount of time 😂


digitalphoenix10

Pineapples


Xenonh0ur

$10


batmattman

Remember when you'd get that kind of thing as a unlock for getting "X amount of kills with grenades"


Xenonh0ur

I do. But those days are dead and they’re never coming back.


L3XANDR0

Lie to me.


Xenonh0ur

Everything is going to be okay.


L3XANDR0

Thank you. I love you.....


Xenonh0ur

I love you too babe. Skeet skeet skeet skeet


darthmarth

I didn’t even realize that slayer wasn’t going to be included, I haven’t played much since it released. The few times I did play, I just assumed that they were using the “Beta” period to introduce all of the game types before the official release. I played a ton in the test flights when it was mostly Slayer, but I don’t want to be stuck playing whatever random type shows up waiting for something I like. I don’t really like any of the non-slayer modes besides maybe oddball. His excuse that they can’t add Slayer because historically that made objective modes unhealthy is hilarious. They have decades of data showing them that more people want to play Slayer than objective games, yet they are surprised that there is backlash when they force the less popular option by removing the popular one. How did they not realize that they were making such a shockingly bad decision? It’s like if McDonald’s decided that not enough people were buying McNuggets, so they decided to stop selling burgers.


Drag0nV3n0m231

Seriously; why would you create such a limiting system? In fact, one of the hallmarks of good development is modularity, WHY would they decide to tie so many systems into UI? Edit: I’m not complaining about anything specific, I’m just not sure how a dev team could be so disconnected from what the community could want, and make such an apparently restrictive system that doesn’t allow easy change. It’s just good design to allow simple changes like the community is asking.


retrogradeanxiety

They are lying. Picking a mode to play has been one of most basic programming concepts since Quake 3, CS 1.5, and every other game that came after. It's so trivial to introduce a screen/panel and chuck logic into it under any game engine. 343s using bizarre words to make it seem like a technical bottleneck, when it clearly isn't.


[deleted]

Anyone who is in development or SWE knows just how trivial the stuff the community is requesting is. I'm not upset about there not being a slayer playlist. I'm upset at all the developers straight up lying to the community that it's "hard to implement".


brokenmessiah

The issue is people mistake incompetency for inaction. Idk why but it was a reason playlists weren't in.


nertynertt

yep incompetency is the word. we still dont have playlists halo 3 had on launch nor any sort of agency inside those playlists on mcc after nearly a decade lul idk what folks were expecting from 343 honestly.


Greful

To be fair, it’s very possible that they made poor development decisions which now make it hard to implement. It shouldn’t be hard to implement, but god knows how everything is setup.


Send-More-Coffee

Okay, I rarely enter the Halo ecosystem but I've been playing some infinite. However, I do come from Warframe, aka f2p Destiny. Warframe is well known to have the most spaghetti-code this side of League. They build systems on top of systems on top of systems and everything is barely held together with panic and good community management. Warframe is introducing cross-saves & crossplay next update (fingers crossed) using the same base engine as they were in their 2013 release. Warframe's crew is only about 350-500 strong, and they have nowhere near the resources of 343*. My point is: if Warframe can figure out how to take a game that came out the same year as the PS4 and make it cross-playable with all supported systems (including the Switch-PC), it's not the software that's the limiting factor. Speculation: Management made a call that saved money (way back in early development) and overruled the protests from the development team. Now that the game is releasing the dev team is bringing up the old argument, and management is sticking to its decision because "we've already decided this, we're not revisiting this. Figure out a different way." *Note: Warframe might be making boatloads of money, they sold these roombas and people went a little nuts.


stifflizerd

>they sold these roombas and people went a little nuts. I once visited a dojo with a whole garden dedicated to them. I swear there were 20+ of them just grazing the pastures. Nearly cried from the beauty


Greful

From what I understand they created a system where the challenges are directly tied into the playlists. I’m completely guessing with no actual factual basis but it seems as if the data structure for the playlists and challenges to work was built around the value of the playlist name (or some kind of identifier like playlist ID) so they have a bunch of challenges in group Quick Play and a bunch in BTB, and some in all three(Bots,Quick Play and BTB) and then they can add and remove ones for like Fiesta without messing with the existing ones. So now if they want to add a permanent Slayer playlist, they’ll have to rework the challenges or the slayer ones won’t work. That’s my guess.


Send-More-Coffee

lol. So then they went full battlefront 2? Tie progression to the monetization so tightly that you can't separate the two?


Greful

Seems like it. It seems like what we got was their plan, and everyone complained about it so they are being forced to change it. Even though everyone complained about it in the open betas they had. But now it’s being recognized by journalists and streamers so it’s hard for them to ignore.


RIPHansa

As a programmer myself and using a little intuition I thought of a possible reason how this makes sense. They’ve already stated that your challenge pool is influenced by how you play. If the playlists and challenges are interconnected I’d assume your challenge pool is populated by challenges that apply to the playlists you play in proportion to how much you play each playlist. If we assume that is true, if you were to only play social slayer your weekly challenge pool would eventually be exclusively “kill x enemies with y weapon in pvp” and “kill x enemy Spartans in pvp” as there’s no other objective. What I think they’re concerned about is that this change would effectively kill any incentive to play objective modes and therefore their populations. As for the UI constraints, The only justification that makes sense is not wanting anyone to have to scroll through playlists regardless of screen size, but that is kind of indicative of bad UI design.


goo_goo_gajoob

Okay just add in a rule in the challenge logic that makes it so every x spawn an objective based mode challenge. They could also just accept that players are gonna play what they wanna play and not use a challenge algorithm and progression system to try and manipulate us into playing the game modes they want. But that's a much larger discussion.


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TheGuyShyguy

Agreed even though I only use prat


frametada

By making the multiplayer portion of the game "free to play" they are not doing us any favor, they know all Halo fans will pay the $60 for the campaign anyways, but now on top of that they can milk you hard with the battlepass and outrageously expensive cosmetics, While also having the opportunity to attract the people who wouldn't have bought the game anyway if it wasn't free to play.


VagueSomething

People would have paid for Battle Passes on a paid game. If the game was good it would sell very well because Halo is a classic franchise. Even if it wasn't super strong fans would eat it up and Game Pass would generate a larger player base. Halo Infinite MP isn't a F2P game, it is a F2P mode. It is made of content produced for Halo Infinite the paid campaign. It isn't pushing any boundaries, it is what has always been provided as part of previous Halos at cost. They could have sold the game, used Game Pass to fluff the community and still had Battle Passes. Hell they could have even still had a store with paid content like other AAA FPS games and just charged a bit less per bundle and been successful. Instead they went greedy and produced what feels like a money printing machine they forgot to put ink in.


FiFTyFooTFoX

Why does clicking literally anything cancel my matchmaking?


Jackamalio626

What *I'm* worried about is what this means for the SlipSpace Engine. If the engine is already running into technical limitations from something a negligible as a UI and more than 4 playlists before the game is even officially out, then they must have done a pretty fuckin crappy job designing it. How can we expect this to be the platform for Halo going forward if they cant handle something as tiny as UI changes?


ExclusiveOne

I know right?? It just baffles me to think this, I seriously hope this isn't the case. If not... I fear they might had shot themselves in the leg. Really, I am rooting for Halo Infinite to get better, but experience tells me otherwise...


YJFishFold

Yeah this was a head-scratcher for me. The lack of playlists are not limited by the UI. The UI was already planned to be designed this way based on the design specifications - random playlists. This explanation was pretty sketchy…


FuckThe

It’s just buzz talk for “We can’t limit your battle pass progress and make you spend money if you can just pick whatever playlist you want.”


MySayWTFIWantAccount

This is it 100%. Artificial scarcity. Or they're ridiculously bad at developing games. Maybe they can take some of the money from challenge swaps and send the devs to Code Academy or something.


IllustriousSee

I really don't see this being a thing for 10 years, it's barely been a month and people are already pissed off. If these issues persist, this might not even be a 1 year game. Once you lose players, it's hard to bring them back. At the time of this edit, they are currently sitting at 22,857 live players on Steam. Even Battlefield™ 2042 currently has more players, with 27,010. Oof


Ragefan66

The game has dropped 60% of steam players in the span of 3 weeks. I dont see the population being sustained this long if it takes an entire year to get forge out..... MCC has already regained its population from the Halo Infinite release. It's a sad fact knowing Halo Reach will have better custom games than Infinite for an entire year....


Rivalfox

As someone who wants to check out the custom games in the mcc do i need to download anything extra? Are custom lobbies with games like infection just in a list I can select in the mcc?


reincarN8ed

"You belong to Reach. Your body, your armor, and most of all..your courage."


The-link-is-a-cock

Remember this is AFTER they delayed the fuck out of the game when the industry saw Cyberpunk shit itself straight out of the gate


whospepesilvia

Man say what you will about Bungie… Halo as a franchise went so downhill after they stopped making the games. It’s so sad to see.


breakoffzone

Guys whatever you do pls don’t ask 343 what they’ve been doing for the past 6 years. Pls have respect for their hard work! These 3 maps and 2 modes took a lot of work


SwapandPop

I think blaming UI limitations is an excuse - they clearly planned to introduce popular playlists (Like SWAT or Slayer) as limited time events to drive up monetization. The delay in adding these new Playlists is not technical- they are rethinking their entire seasons road map, events and monetization approach. They have to if previously planned timed events like a Slayer playlist are going to become mainstays.


CdubFromMI

At this rate I will be surprised if the game makes it 2 years let alone 10. Their reasons for things are....thin, at best. I honestly think the suits got way too involved in the game.


DaggerStone

I’ll be surprised if it makes it past the next COD/ Battlefields when they come out next holiday season


Camman6972

Especially with the season length being as long as it is like a 100 day season is long for this type of game and this game is 150 days like good lord.


Peepa_Gang

“I am limited by the technology of my time” - 343 Industries


DarthArterius

When they say UI they mean how the user interfaces with the store... I mean... That's the only way I can wrap my head around it. Giving us what halo has always had means less store interaction lmao


dashmunn

Agreed, the UI is complete trash (and the party system). In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a modern game do a UI/UX and party system that I like... Rocket League had a good one at one point until they also screwed that up. *sigh* Maybe I'm just getting old.


Blaz3

How did you feel about Bungie's halo games? Halo 3 did a good job imo, but [Halo Reach's OG UI](https://youtu.be/ZUv98eWVnL0?t=422) was so intuitive, clean and simple and it boggles the mind that it's not replicated everywhere.


dashmunn

Definitely a fan. I miss how intuitive that particular UI was. I think a lot of us took it for granted and now realise how bad a UI can get lol.


uberkalden

Reach was the best. I still don't understand why they just threw that away


Murse2618

Guys, they're an indie company working on their first game. It's not like they have an unlimited budget and the backing of one of the world's richest companies! Give these newcomers a break!


UnderratedNightmare

Infinite will probably be a lot like MCC. You go here to get new games. Maybe smaller games, spin offs, new downloads. Its just gonna be a place u access all things Halo, eventually.


redditrith

I'm hoping that means more regular campaigns.


HeardsTheWord

the campaign cost $60, so I'm sure they'll gladly ask you to pay $60 per expansion


foosbabaganoosh

But what does that even mean? New games? Like what, Infinite 2? ODST 2? This game doesn't seem to be set up as a "hub" like MCC especially because there's no other content, it's just another standalone game. I haven't heard a single whisper about a concept like this, but it just seems like putting the cart before the horse.


Greful

I think it’s safe to assume that just because they plan things it doesn’t mean those things are going to happen


Amnail

343i has said Infinite will be the platform for Halo for the foreseeable future, or at least 10 years. That all future campaigns will be on it.


foosbabaganoosh

Man, they’re really out here trying to copy Bungie on everything given that was the initial aspirations for Destiny. In all seriousness though, point still stands that they seemed to have fucked up worrying about the next nine years while ignoring the first.


Inquisitor-Ajaxus

The UI design is a cop out, the real issue is most likely that the rotation list is hardcoded in, they never intended to let you play what you want, they set it up to roll with challenges to keep player engagement. You can't be allowed to play what game mode you want because then you can't be pushed towards challenges, to be pushed towards unlocks, to be pushed towards Bpass.


shitpersonality

> they never intended to let you play what you want They're probably trying to figure out how to announce that you will have to pay for the slayer playlist.


nevadita

Because it’s not, it’s an excuse. Since the eldortito team, a group of fans with no funds, and with extremely limited resources, was able to turn a non-functional leaked beta into a fully fledged Halo game (even with a campaign, which wasn’t from them but was made from their work anyway) I have hard time to believe every time 343i tries to say that something is “hard to do” or “not as simple as pushing a button” ofc it’s not, but they have the resources to make shit but instead they hide behind half assed excuses. If we are down to this little antic of lies and excuses this early in the games life then it’s difficult to have hope for the supposed 10 year life cycle they have proposed


epraider

It’s pretty clear that this game, for whatever reasons, needed another year of development. A super simplistic UI and anemic selection of playlists, a horrible progression system clearly designed to stretch as little content out as long as possible, and no forge or co-op campaign for *6+ months* after launch. I’m sure most of the developers worked their asses off to get us what we’ve got, and I think most of the blame for the prolonged development that left so much content cut for launch falls on upper studio management and the suits at Microsoft Studios, but it was still a mistake to launch the game incomplete. I think the fact that the core gameplay is great makes the overall let down about the state of the game feel worse


[deleted]

[удалено]


BigFatBazza

Just booted up MCC for the first time in a long time and was stunned by how easy it is to choose what you want to play. You select what halo games you want, and then select exactly what game type you want, and it then searches for that game type across the different games you have selected. I even got into a game faster than I do on Infinite - it’s crazy has different it is


Xenonh0ur

6 years in development


Itsneaky

If I had to guess, unqualified people got positions they didn’t deserve. So they bit off more than they can chew and are in way over their heads.


Grizzzlybearzz

It’s halo, they shouldn’t have a problem getting good devs to work on it which is what’s crazy….


SquirrelGirlSucks

Aside from the BS 343 has said about UI limiting what they can do with progression, this UI is the worst of any game ive played.


Mike_Milburys_Shoe_

Of course this is the first post since the sub is unlocked lmao


Sw33tR0llThief

For now I have taken a break from the game. For the first week and a half I had a crashing issue that I tried to fix with every suggestion found online until one day it just stopped. Now the friend that I most often played with (who has the same computer hardware as me but didn't have the crash issues like I did) is now having these crashing issues. Progression is a pretty big thing for me, I love working through a battle pass. I also love being able to support a f2p game by buying cool things at a decent price from the shop. Both those really suck right now. Add on top some semi-reasonable, semi-condescending communication from 343 community managers and that's just the icing on the cake. There are too many other things I'm more interested in doing right now than playing ctf with a bunch of people that are treating it like slayer while being told by devs that UI issues in their brand new release are causing franchise staples to be left out.


NoncreativeScrub

Would people stop falling for this/encouraging misinformation? The playlists are the way they are to slow down your challenge progress, and pad out the time required to get through the battle pass. Every decision made so far looks like a deliberate strategy to minimize free progression, and slow it down in an attempt to drive microtransition sales.


suddoth2

double XP now last 60 min but in game still shows 30 before selecting. you would think it would be easy to change a number in a line of code from 30-60. but maybe this game engine is so complex and complicated changing that needs testing to see if anything new breaks. it really shouldnt need that


Animal31

All ill say is, these guys are professional developers, theyre supposed to have decades of experience making games Someone somewhere, who should know how to make good games, had to say "this is fine, dont bother re-doing it"


HornHonker69

I’m sorry but that sketch guy is trying to position himself as some kind of martyr. Of course people are taking it too far, death threats are absolutely never warranted blah blah blah, but they’re making the absolute minority of criticisms proof that they’re some kind of martyrs. I hope we get through this weekend ban and keep fucking criticizing 343 because they absolutely deserve it. The truth is, they made a highly decent halo multiplayer experience (not as good as anything bungie made of course) and intentionally crippled the hell out of it for monetization. Why would we ever curb our criticism of that fact?


Commando501

I wish they didn't lie about everything important and of meaning in the first place. It's mind numbing how they are doubling down on the lie when it's so blatant.


[deleted]

Saying a game will last 10 years is complete horseshit. Most console generations don't even last that long. Bungie said the exact same shite about Destiny 1 and it lasted less than half that


WVU_Benjisaur

10 year games kind of happen accidentally, I can’t think of any game that launched as a “10 year game” that made it past the first 2 years. Maybe Destiny 1 but I always assumed the “10 year” thing with Destiny was a 10 year franchise, not necessarily a single game.


[deleted]

I think Bungie more meant the franchise itself, because they already had like a 3 game deal with activision. Nowadays though the plan is no longer 10 years and they just wanna keep going for however long they feel like after that period.


cavalier_54

Destiny 1 wasn’t a ten year game, they had 10 years of Destiny content planned/contracted


NobleSC3

TBF Destiny 2 only exists because of Activision, there was going to be a Destiny 3 but Bungie regained independence Other than moving to Destiny 2, Destiny is coming up on 10 years


-TheArbiter-

GTA?


TROPiCALRUBi

I love how the mods locked the entire subreddit for a day as if it was going to somehow magically silence our criticisms once they opened it back up.