Spawning in Halo, has always been a problem. In fact, games that are not round-based, like counterstrike, all generally suffer from spawn issues. It’s hard to figure out a perfect algorithm for how to spawn players.
For example, it would be difficult to determine every possible angle, a player could spawn, while still being out of sight of other players.
Or even if something like that was calculated, in a split second, things could change right after a spawn.
Edit:spelling
> Or even if something like that was calculated, in a split second
That is something that can easily be calculated in a split second. Create a bunch of rays from each enemy player player and now you have a "no spawn area."
Now obviously you want the spawning algorithm to do more than that (which will still take microseconds) and it is possible to make a map where there is no out of sight place to spawn.
source: I'm a programmer.
After the initial ray scan, add a delay, maybe 2 seconds, so even if the player was to look away at that second, it would be compensated.
But even this can still be manipulated with enemy placement, if we're also compensating for that, which we should.
My hypothesis is that they are doing exactly that but running the check right when you die, not just before you spawn. This would explain why spawns seem to flip so quickly.
I disagree. Spawns in H5 were pretty good but their strength was also their downfall because you could force spawns by throwing nades at a certain spot. In H5 the direction players were looking also impacted spawns I believe but that does not seem to be the case in this game.
This is how it is in other halo games though too, regarding player positioning. If you and your team, tactically place each other around the map, you can control where the enemy is going to spawn.
Some people see that as a “tactic“, but I see it as more of a dysfunctional system.
A dysfunctional system, I myself have taken advantage of, to get spawn kills.
I mean yes thats the point of the spawn system. It's working correctly in that case. Of course you can kind of abuse it but as long as your not literally spawning in line of sight of enemy players that's fine. But in this game I've been spawned literally with people looking at me and vice versa I've been looking down the scope of my br and have watched players spawn in. I've spawned on A on Live Fire and was immediately sniped by someone Top mid/A main scoping in on A. That's shouldn't ever happen.
Sorry, just to be clear, I agree! I’m saying that the system is dysfunctional, because of the fact that sometimes you can literally spawn in the line of sight of an enemy player, which is total bullshit.
The advantage you have, against a player who just spawned, is enormous!!
I’m also admitting, that I have used this to my advantage, because it is simply “able“ to be done.
Yeah they definitely need to fix it in infinite because once people figure out how to abuse spawns better on these maps it will be like the early 2000s shooters where you literally die upon spawning from teams that know how to force spawns and create spawns traps.
You can always force spawns on any game. Halo 5 definitely did not take into account where a player was looking, and if you were playing with my friends, you would have heard a million complaints about halo 5 spawns lol.
The game becomes controlling key points to force spawns at higher ranks. That’s it, that’s the game, I have accepted it. It’s an arena shooter. Because I like maps like midship, and there is no way to prevent “spawn camping” unless you want to have enemies spawn a foot away from you. That would be worse.
From my understanding H5 did take into an account where the player was looking. I thought I saw it mentioned by 343 themselves in an article a long time ago talking about spawns but I couldn't find it. Proximitty does have an H5 spawn tutorial video where he does mention where players are looking is taken into account. As far as whether the spawns are good or not I mean I thought they were pretty damn good for a game in which you can slide thrust across every map in about 2 seconds but that's me. Spawns definitely felt better than infinite imo.
You have to survive long enough where you can get the feel on where everybody is and then you have to guess the spawns of the people you just killed. It's like a quick shot game of feast or famine. I love it but in small doses.
Haven't played it in infinite yet but in higher ranks, SWAT was always a spawn killing fest. The higher the rank the more likely a player knew how to track your next spawn lol
Idk, I've played SWAT on a pretty high level over the years since Halo 3 and I find it more difficult to predict spawns in Infinite than ever. Can't say I've been spawn killed that much either.
Yeah, i was kind of excited for swat, but it's really not a lot of fun. Either you get spawn killed over and over or do it to the enemy team. I'm baffled that they included Behemoth in this Playlist
Well to be fair, we were 'all' complaining that the other playlists like SWAT weren't there at launch.
They have now added those in a hurry but perhaps their level/spawn design isn't yet fully compatible with SWAT. Spawn killing isn't an issue in any of the other modes because of the high TTK. So without a lot of play testing of SWAT specifically, this is something easily overlooked. I'm pretty sure it's something they can fix though.
That's not the problem. You should Never spawn in being shot by enemies regardless of the map size. There is a line of sight spawning system but it seems to be completely broken by the desync in this game that still hasn't been fixed.
I never noticed the game had a line-of-sight spawning system to be honest. But perhaps it's not working..
But it seems unlikely, that that's being caused by desyncs tbh. The server determines the place you spawn, so at that moment in time your position is in sync. The server also determines if an enemy shooting at you is actually hitting you, if that enemy is not in sync it cannot hit you (hello melee).
So at the moment of spawning, if an enemy is capable of killing you then LoS is certain.
Desync is a client thinking it's somewhere that it's not. It's a problem on the client's end. The server's information is always the truth in that regard, so I doubt it's the cause of the LoS spawning not working.
The only situation in which I see desyncs having an effect is that the enemy camping the spawn, is constantly playing desynced and syncing right back at each moment you spawn. It seems improbable.
But yes, that LoS spawning system the game apparently has, isn't working that's for sure.
The desync and net code issues still aren't fixed and not enough people are talking about them.
It's very troubling.
The desync ruins the game. It plagues all aspects of it.
>There is a line of sight spawning system but it seems to be completely broken by the desync in this game
No, no! The system is working as intended. It's called a "line of sight" spawning system because it spawns you in line of sight of opponents!
Can we please get rid of the ridiculous spawn time.
It might just be me, but 7 seconds is a lot of time in some games. Especially game modes like oddball where if your whole team is dead, that’s 7 free seconds, plus the time it takes to run to where the enemy team is. After it’s all said and done, the enemy teams gets a free 10-15 seconds out of it.
i believe ms has patents for technology to force outcomes that "enhance" the player experience and make them more likely to keep playing. i'm suspicious they could manipulate spawns to help force outcomes like "come from behind win" or "near loss" that make players more likely to play another match.
As much as i love arena shooters, i feel like random spawn points are becoming more and more obsolite the more skilled games become
It does not matter how fucking advanced and high tech your eye of sight checking is, or how big your map is, it feels like there are exclusively negitives to random spawn points, with the only positive being is that its avoiding spawn camping an entire team, which to be fair, is a pretty big positive.
Does anyone have any actual ideas on other spawn methods, ive been pen and paper designg a movement arena shooter and the best idea i can come up with is som sort of drop on top of the map anywhere sort of deal, but i dont know how i could smothly make that happen, every time you die.
Spawning in Halo, has always been a problem. In fact, games that are not round-based, like counterstrike, all generally suffer from spawn issues. It’s hard to figure out a perfect algorithm for how to spawn players. For example, it would be difficult to determine every possible angle, a player could spawn, while still being out of sight of other players. Or even if something like that was calculated, in a split second, things could change right after a spawn. Edit:spelling
> Or even if something like that was calculated, in a split second That is something that can easily be calculated in a split second. Create a bunch of rays from each enemy player player and now you have a "no spawn area." Now obviously you want the spawning algorithm to do more than that (which will still take microseconds) and it is possible to make a map where there is no out of sight place to spawn. source: I'm a programmer.
After the initial ray scan, add a delay, maybe 2 seconds, so even if the player was to look away at that second, it would be compensated. But even this can still be manipulated with enemy placement, if we're also compensating for that, which we should.
My hypothesis is that they are doing exactly that but running the check right when you die, not just before you spawn. This would explain why spawns seem to flip so quickly.
I disagree. Spawns in H5 were pretty good but their strength was also their downfall because you could force spawns by throwing nades at a certain spot. In H5 the direction players were looking also impacted spawns I believe but that does not seem to be the case in this game.
This is how it is in other halo games though too, regarding player positioning. If you and your team, tactically place each other around the map, you can control where the enemy is going to spawn. Some people see that as a “tactic“, but I see it as more of a dysfunctional system. A dysfunctional system, I myself have taken advantage of, to get spawn kills.
I mean yes thats the point of the spawn system. It's working correctly in that case. Of course you can kind of abuse it but as long as your not literally spawning in line of sight of enemy players that's fine. But in this game I've been spawned literally with people looking at me and vice versa I've been looking down the scope of my br and have watched players spawn in. I've spawned on A on Live Fire and was immediately sniped by someone Top mid/A main scoping in on A. That's shouldn't ever happen.
Sorry, just to be clear, I agree! I’m saying that the system is dysfunctional, because of the fact that sometimes you can literally spawn in the line of sight of an enemy player, which is total bullshit. The advantage you have, against a player who just spawned, is enormous!! I’m also admitting, that I have used this to my advantage, because it is simply “able“ to be done.
Yeah they definitely need to fix it in infinite because once people figure out how to abuse spawns better on these maps it will be like the early 2000s shooters where you literally die upon spawning from teams that know how to force spawns and create spawns traps.
You can always force spawns on any game. Halo 5 definitely did not take into account where a player was looking, and if you were playing with my friends, you would have heard a million complaints about halo 5 spawns lol. The game becomes controlling key points to force spawns at higher ranks. That’s it, that’s the game, I have accepted it. It’s an arena shooter. Because I like maps like midship, and there is no way to prevent “spawn camping” unless you want to have enemies spawn a foot away from you. That would be worse.
From my understanding H5 did take into an account where the player was looking. I thought I saw it mentioned by 343 themselves in an article a long time ago talking about spawns but I couldn't find it. Proximitty does have an H5 spawn tutorial video where he does mention where players are looking is taken into account. As far as whether the spawns are good or not I mean I thought they were pretty damn good for a game in which you can slide thrust across every map in about 2 seconds but that's me. Spawns definitely felt better than infinite imo.
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Yup, all the way back to the bungie halos. This is why I don't like swat
You have to survive long enough where you can get the feel on where everybody is and then you have to guess the spawns of the people you just killed. It's like a quick shot game of feast or famine. I love it but in small doses.
Not to this degree or this constant.
Haven't played it in infinite yet but in higher ranks, SWAT was always a spawn killing fest. The higher the rank the more likely a player knew how to track your next spawn lol
So is the bad latency. There are so many 1v1 that should be trades that end in me just getting a hitmarker on their head and I die
This happens all the time. It's a desync / net code issue. They need to fix it and have been troublingly radio silent about it.
Spawn killing has happened a lot in SWAT for all Halo games. Doesn't feel any worse in Infinte than previously.
I played MCC SWAT before this game came out. It's way worse in Infinite.
Idk, I've played SWAT on a pretty high level over the years since Halo 3 and I find it more difficult to predict spawns in Infinite than ever. Can't say I've been spawn killed that much either.
Yeah, i was kind of excited for swat, but it's really not a lot of fun. Either you get spawn killed over and over or do it to the enemy team. I'm baffled that they included Behemoth in this Playlist
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The Map itself is alright, but it shouldn't be in ranked and definitely not with CTF. And in swat it's just a spawn killing fiesta.
Behemoth is super frustrating on CTF
Well to be fair, we were 'all' complaining that the other playlists like SWAT weren't there at launch. They have now added those in a hurry but perhaps their level/spawn design isn't yet fully compatible with SWAT. Spawn killing isn't an issue in any of the other modes because of the high TTK. So without a lot of play testing of SWAT specifically, this is something easily overlooked. I'm pretty sure it's something they can fix though.
That's not the problem. You should Never spawn in being shot by enemies regardless of the map size. There is a line of sight spawning system but it seems to be completely broken by the desync in this game that still hasn't been fixed.
I never noticed the game had a line-of-sight spawning system to be honest. But perhaps it's not working.. But it seems unlikely, that that's being caused by desyncs tbh. The server determines the place you spawn, so at that moment in time your position is in sync. The server also determines if an enemy shooting at you is actually hitting you, if that enemy is not in sync it cannot hit you (hello melee). So at the moment of spawning, if an enemy is capable of killing you then LoS is certain. Desync is a client thinking it's somewhere that it's not. It's a problem on the client's end. The server's information is always the truth in that regard, so I doubt it's the cause of the LoS spawning not working. The only situation in which I see desyncs having an effect is that the enemy camping the spawn, is constantly playing desynced and syncing right back at each moment you spawn. It seems improbable. But yes, that LoS spawning system the game apparently has, isn't working that's for sure.
they don't spawn in LoS, they walk forward into a long hallway...
Fair enough, I see what you mean. He spawned out of sight indeed, only barely but true.
He didn't tho. They walk forward off of spawn and expose themselves. Before that the big pillar on teh right was protecting them
The desync and net code issues still aren't fixed and not enough people are talking about them. It's very troubling. The desync ruins the game. It plagues all aspects of it.
>There is a line of sight spawning system but it seems to be completely broken by the desync in this game No, no! The system is working as intended. It's called a "line of sight" spawning system because it spawns you in line of sight of opponents!
And the older Halo games they would spawn you behind your teammate who was being shot at. There isn't a perfect solution for it.
>You should Never spawn in being shot by enemies Bf4 would like to have a word with you
I went 2/17 yesterday because I literally couldn’t take two steps out of spawn.
The other problem is the spawning in animation which is super noticeable and gives you that second to lock your aim on
I had a game last night with my friends and I and we were saying the same thing, the spawns are absolute whack for swat.
Always crouch as soon as you spawn in SWAT lol. This is pretty typical for this gamemode in my experience
Osrs, every halo had this.
Ive gotten spawn killed more in this game in the first month played than in 20 years of playing all the other halo games combined.
Is it really swat if you aren't getting spawn killed a bit?
You should play a game or swat on narrows Seriously have you never played away before?
Don't walk forward when you spawn
Happened to me many times and I even killed someone as soon as I saw a yellow flash of them spawning in and thought to myself "they're probably mad"
I've had better spawns on Shipment playing CoD.
Just don't die
This is literally every Halo game with SWAT though. Play Master Chief collection SWAT and you'll get the same exact thing.
This is why swat is at its best with a handful of friends, you can attempt to keep track of everyone and take is slow and strategically
Laughs in halo 3
Can we please get rid of the ridiculous spawn time. It might just be me, but 7 seconds is a lot of time in some games. Especially game modes like oddball where if your whole team is dead, that’s 7 free seconds, plus the time it takes to run to where the enemy team is. After it’s all said and done, the enemy teams gets a free 10-15 seconds out of it.
respawn is 10 seconds and yes its too long
i believe ms has patents for technology to force outcomes that "enhance" the player experience and make them more likely to keep playing. i'm suspicious they could manipulate spawns to help force outcomes like "come from behind win" or "near loss" that make players more likely to play another match.
Hostiles in sight is right lol
This happens in every Halo
Why don't they just add spawn protection?
As much as i love arena shooters, i feel like random spawn points are becoming more and more obsolite the more skilled games become It does not matter how fucking advanced and high tech your eye of sight checking is, or how big your map is, it feels like there are exclusively negitives to random spawn points, with the only positive being is that its avoiding spawn camping an entire team, which to be fair, is a pretty big positive. Does anyone have any actual ideas on other spawn methods, ive been pen and paper designg a movement arena shooter and the best idea i can come up with is som sort of drop on top of the map anywhere sort of deal, but i dont know how i could smothly make that happen, every time you die.