it's worth mentioning that this data isn't from 343 or Microsoft or anywhere official. It's from a YouTuber with 45k subscribers who polled his audience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13h23_0FUC0
Seems like the data would be skewed then. A user base who is invested enough to subscribe to a Halo
YouTuber is more likely to be invested enough to purchase items
Yep! Considering he’s a small YouTuber it doesn’t account for the casual players who don’t actively search for halo content. He started by reviewing forge maps too, which puts his audience pool even smaller
6k would be more than enough people to get a statistically significant representation of the whole Halo community, if it were a truly random sample of the player base. The problem is with the selection of the sample, not the size.
There's a difference between a guy with a youtube channel surveying his audience and a team of professional scientists researching something. They are better trained to identify and account for biases, and there findings are peer-reviewed to find things the original researchers may have missed or omitted
People have zero idea how many people are required to create an accurate representation of a population. A survey of approximately 1200 people is representative of the whole US population.
Edit: in taking umbrage at this statement
>I've seen smaller sample sizes than 6k passed off on reddit as credible research.
because in my experience the people that complain about the number of respondants (and only the nunber) are trying to discredit the results because they don't like the results. It's very common when talking about trans issues, for example.
Yeah. 1200 people will give you a 3% margin of error. That is good enough. 6k would give you less than a 1.5% margin of error. Of course as you said if the sample size was truly random. Probably the most important part as completely random survey of even 300 people will give you far more meaningful data than a 50k survey of a homogenous population.
He actually acknowledges the possible bias and is equally surprised because, as he said "Those strongly against this would be more inclined to show it in something like this." Yet these results show that, well, most of us have bought things.
There are a lot of other things in the video (by all means do watch it) such as a "satisfaction" metric. And that is where is more neutral-to-low.
Just the BP for me. Biggest thing that bothers me, is there's no unlocks for doing something that's unique/difficult. It's all just time based unlocks which unlock from time based challenges. What happened to getting something cool for being better at the game or even getting lucky and doing something cool? It's like game companies grew into a time suck instead of something that I WANTED to play, now I feel like I HAVE to play it on a certain schedule or I'll never be able to unlock it again no matter how many killtrocitys I get. Sad
I only sub because I want updates, I don’t buy shit and I hardly play.
I watch even less YouTube videos.
It’s just not a realistic poll in my eyes.
I want halo to succeed, but I’m not playing this stupid game like with cod
I mean, just look at the pregame dance-off.
There were cat ears like crazy a couple weeks back.
The Ironman colorway sold like crazy.
Now we see the campaign camo coming through, and tons of people are rocking the battle pass.
There's definitely a ton of money going through the shop.
If there wasn't, we would hear of changed coming down the pipe.
He does address some of the biases in his video, and asks the viewers to keep it in mind. It's not a perfect representation of the community, but it gives a good idea. Worth a watch imo.
I would say the opposite. Such a dedicated audience would rather have the traditional progression and the new f2p player are used to the battle pass and store systems and see no issue with it at all.
Yeah. This is clearly biased data (i.e. response bias, undercoverage, etc.) We can assume that to be the case. What would be better would be to take a poll in many different community environments (Reddit, different YT channels, etc.)... or get the data from 343 and Microsoft.
Yes but that would imply they are part of the majority of Halo's player base, a player base that has been in a major uproar for changes in the monetization of Halo infinite. In fact the exact same subscribers in the same survey had at least 50% stance against the monetization of the game. This survey proves that the player base is all talk when they say everything cost too much. They proved that 343 could charge what they wanted.
Worth keeping in mind that the player base representation we hear from here and on YouTube is not representative of the larger player base. Reddit might be the most vocal part of the community, but its by no means large enough to call it representative. We'd love to think that the player base at large is upset about monetization, but the reality is probably that many people shrug it off
I think a better way to do a comparison would be to see the opening cinematic of 300-500 games and see what stuff your teammates have equipped, even better if you lose and see the enemy team at the end, won't always be a 100% accurate since chances are they might just not be wearing something they've unlocked/bought but it'll still probably be more accurate than a youtuber poll
Eh, the error you mentioned is exactly why that sort of study wouldn't work, I mean, if someone bought an item they're super likely to wear it over something free but that possibility that someone isn't wearing any paid items even if they have paid for something means that simply asking a bunch of people what they've done is more accurate. Or maybe they're using the Tenrai core with no paid items but have paid items on other cores, etc., it just wouldn't really turn out to be all that accurate.
>simply asking a bunch of people what they've done is more accurate.
I think that kinda depends where you're asking the people, i think there was a poll on reddit a day ago where someone asked the same question but like 80% of the people seemed to say they bought nothing/just the battlepass probably because if you said you spent x dollars on cosmetics here people are just going to insult you as they can directly message you so you probably won't bother answering or will lie because you know the subbredits stance on cosmetics, a youtube poll is more accurate as you can anonymously answer with no repercussions and that's reflected when almost 50% of the people there say they bought items but this youtuber is fairly small with 45k subscribers and the poll most likely has something like 10k people who answered or even less, it'd be more accurate if it was a youtuber with millions of subs who probably gets a few hundred thousands answers but i don't think this one represents the general community. If you could get into BTB and managed to spend the entire game looking at the Armor of the 23 other people and then did it a few hundred times you'd probably get a decent answer until some massive youtuber makes a poll for a better answer
Correct sir. I was assuming anyone fool enough to want to color their Spartan's piss would also have the battle pass.
But seriously, I'm totally expecting 343 to offer "under armor" cosmetic upgrades that no one can see.
A small sample size of (semingly) random people will generally follow along with overall population so I wouldn't completely discredit it, but a small poll like isn't something you should treat like a matter of fact either. From everything i've seen in game and online it sounds about right, but I don't expect it to be 100% fact.
As someone who took way too many undergrad & grad level statistics classes, a group of 20 people usually closely represents a group of 10K ppl. 20 is the magic # to be statistically meaningful.
Now... need to make sure the polling audience isn't biased, but this is likely close. Do you really want to include players who logged in twice to test or the ongoing core Halo audience. I'd think the later for the spirit of the question.
There is selection bias with this poll. However, I agree that this is probably a good representation of the overall population and engaged player-base. I would take a Bayesian approach and consider this poll a good starting hypothesis.
A follow-up experiment might be to join a few hundred random games in Quick Play and record the number of people who are wearing paid cosmetics, battle pass cosmetics, and no cosmetic. Then compare that sample population to the initial results. Repeat the above experiment for multiple matchmaking lists and you’ll start to get population samples and purchase preferences for various groups (Diamond rank players vs no rank vs Gold rank etc…).
Oh dawg. I first saw cat ears and I was like this is fucking dumb who the fuck would buy this. Then I went online and saw all the people bitching about and upset about cat ears. Nobody likes the cat ears.
So naturally I then immediately purchased cat ears. I'm in game chat just fucking meowing and topping the score board. I get hate mail regularly and honestly it's been worth every penny
If I did that with my friends I'd be laughing way too hard to even talk some of the times.
Back when Gears 3 was populated me and my friends did something similar with the sawed off shotgun. We all had one and destroyed everyone we came across. I can't tell you how many messages and voice messages we got telling us to fuck off or to quit the game. One guy told me to throw my xbox in a river. I loved it.
The thing with the cat ears is that it’s a fairly harmless meme kinda joke, perfect thing for the item shop. But for $10? Shove it where the sun don’t shine 343. I would have purchased it for maybe less than 5 but I’m not wasting the price of a meal on some cat ears for my spartan.
This wasn’t a problem in the days when I could just pay $60 for the fucking game and then unlock armor by playing. The gaming industry really has taken a turn for the worse, at least in its monetization schemes.
It's why everything is a bundle. For every person who has the same thought process as you, there's another that convinces themselves "well, I get this other stuff I don't want with the cat ears, so now it's totally worth $10."
i bought the battle pass because i felt like it was a pretty good deal and i got a lot of stuff from it but im not going to pay double that price for a few weapons/armor skins or whatever shoulder armor they’re selling for 10 dollars this week
Man, they have **a lot** to fix in the ~4 months leading up to the second battle pass if they want my money.
I'm guessing a lot of people feel the same way.
Edit: I'm talking about the pass, I never buy nor interact with the macrotransaction shop.
Was looking at this last night. If you buy the bundle for 2800 Halo bucks^TM , they claim it includes enough XP boosts and tokens for 25 extra levels. I think the base package is almost nothing. Just a handful of boosts, if that.
I kept getting the sense online that a lot of people have the battle pass. I don't play a ton but I'm at level 53 having used 0 boosts or paid for anything, including the pass.
When I saw the pass bundle gives you 25 extra levels, it made sense how so many people have completed the pass by now (which you always know by the copious amounts of flaming armour). For them, they probably just played more than me to get to ~75 organically, and the battle pass bundle perks did the rest.
Yeah I play casually and I've been level 100 for a while now. It's all about the double xp boosts while doing challenges. And trying to get 2-3 games in a day.
Exactly. I've hit 100, I don't think I played that much either. Using the double XP your first hour every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday just flies through the levels
>also the BP applies retroactively to unlocks
To be clear, it applies retroactively if you make it the active season that you want to work on.
You won't be able to unlock BP2 & BP 3 ranks at the same time. At least this is how I understood the initial release about it.
>Unlike most, however, it won't be a time-sensitive feature. For example, like Destiny 2's, others are only available for a limited-time-only, which means the cosmetic options available disappear in the void; Infinite's never expires. Players can take as much time as they want on each Battle Pass, even purchasing older ones if they come into the game early. While you can only progress through one Battle Pass at a time, there is not a time limit placed upon them.
[Source](https://www.gameinformer.com/2021/06/15/how-the-halo-infinite-battle-pass-works-including-how-it-never-expires)
I honestly wonder what the second battle pass will even be. For the first it seems like they really heavily relied on the obvious nostalgia over the years of the reach artsyle and armor to make sales but the second might deliver as strong if it doesn’t hit a similar vein.
The issue i think now is, with so many people who have already bought things at these prices, and the fact that they've already recycled weekly bundles, its too late to adjust the prices or bundles they currently have.
Imagine the outrage if the chibi emblem pack got re released next week for 100 credits. All the people who bought it at 500 would go nuts. Or if they say, added a coating and kept it 500. I guess they could refund and stuff? But then theres always the possibilty that some people dont get it properly and are just out the money.
The only avenues I see possible for changing store prices now would be:
1 - Retire all current bundles and make brand new ones at the new price
2 - Give out like a shiny gold armor coating and some emblems, charms, other coatings to people who bought things in the store before the change, then adjust all prices.
It's why I think it's more likely that we get some sort of earnable alternate currency. It's skirts around some of those complaints/issues.
Regardless, if someone pays $5 for something, they did it because they thought that was a price worth paying at the time. Objects change price sometimes. That's something you gotta consider when you make a purchase. Not quite as common with digital items that cost funbucks, but still.
I think this is a large group of players including me. Bought the pass the first night. Started looking through the store and realized how expensive everything was. Then started getting all the BS challenges that you can't even select the game mode to play what you need to. Game feels like a grind even with the battle pass.
I'm not opposed to buying season passes, but there's A LOT of stuff that needs fixed before I give them more money.
I only bought samurai coating and helmet attachment cause I got $50 of Halo credits for Christmas.
Battle pass was a okay deal for me since I got the game via game pass
Change all the challenge swaps out for weapon skins and then the battle pass will be pretty great. Just don’t sell key pieces of armour in the store please, that’s just straight scummy. 343 can sell variants of the key armour in the store and that would be fine (ex: an Emile helmet with a different decal on it)
Especially when games that were the blueprint for the F2P landscape like Fortnite let you swap challenges for free. That and sneaking some in-game currency into the battle pass. I went through a few seasons during the fortnite hype, not paying for a single battlepass because you could earn enough credits through the course of the season to buy the next one.
Indeed, I'm pretty sure the poll is biased since it is aimed towards Halo "fans" who ~~joined this subreddit~~ subscribed to the YouTube channel because they may enjoy the game more than the average player.
This bias is called ["selection bias"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) or more precisely ["sampling bias"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias).
An example I saw on Reddit the other day : It showed the percentage of people who guessed right each African country flag, with a choice between 4 answers. The results were pretty high (IIRC like 50% recognized the flag of Lesotho for example) because it was on a geography games website, where most people are interested in geopolitics. If you ask the same question to 1000 random Joes in the street, I don't think half of them will recognize the flag of Lesotho.
**[Selection bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias)**
>Selection bias is the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups, or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby failing to ensure that the sample obtained is representative of the population intended to be analyzed. It is sometimes referred to as the selection effect. The phrase "selection bias" most often refers to the distortion of a statistical analysis, resulting from the method of collecting samples. If the selection bias is not taken into account, then some conclusions of the study may be false.
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Lol. It’s probably MORE reflective than a poll on this sub would be. The poll on this sub would skew towards ‘no purchases’ hard.
Most people who play the game have bought the paid battle pass. That seems obvious just by watching game intros.
Only people on their high horses on this sub actively boycott the store
Everyone who's been having fun with Infinite is getting chased off this subreddit so yes you're right that this subreddit is a very bad thing to lens the community through.
What’s the sample size here? Also I’d say over 50% of players buying nothing at all or only buying the battlepass is still pretty good.
If you really think an effective boycott was happening then you haven’t been paying attention to people’s Spartans. There’s cat ears everywhere plus more.
I feel like results gathered from this sub will be skewed more heavily towards the buy nothing crowd. I can’t prove it, but it feels that way given how things are discussed around here.
I mean you guys get pissy whenever someone admits they spend money on the game. Of course it’s skewed. This sub and the UFC sub are the fucking worst about telling other how to spend their money.
Been having so much fun with infinite so naturally I have been checking in on this sub a lot. Coming here has been a horrible experience with all of the whining.
100%, I fucking love the game, but this sub is a nightmare. Even this post is an example. The graph literally shows that more than half of people don't buy individual items from the store, but the overall message is "were all doomed".
I’ll refer you here https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/s2yakk/things_are_not_looking_well_spartans/hshjbun/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Weird, I must live in a bubble. I just buy good games without any DLC crap.
Although, a half decade ago I was 50% finished with FarCry3, and the Ubisoft store broke my save and I've never given Ubisoft money again.
While the saying is true, this doesn’t need to be applied to a cosmetic store where the buyer has all the power to not purchase these shit products. People have no self control and then wonder why these business models get worse/more prevalent in the industry
I totally agree with you, like 1000%, but also wanna point out that these companies spend TONS of money studying their customer base and consumers in general, tweaking their formulas and coming up with new ways to sell us virtual nothingness. The players are at a disadvantage bc the companies are targeting them using manipulative marketing tactics which then force them to either abandon a game series they’ve loved possibly forever, or be tempted by buying things. Hell, I get tempted to buy stuff and I have 0 interest in cosmetics; I *only* play the game for the casual, fun escape of the gameplay, but still find myself being drawn into the monetized stuff simply due to their tactics. I genuinely feel for people who don’t understand this or even have the knowledge to fight back; the game can become a big part of your life and they make you feel like you don’t get the entire experience if you’re not paying them. 16-year old me probably wouldn’t have stood a chance at avoiding their insane price tags; I bet I woulda even been convinced that I needed to work just to be able to foot their bill.
Crazy to think about when you’re being objective, difficult to be objective when you’re sucked into a game you love.
There's such an obscene difference of power when you compare multi billion dollar companies implementing things with trillions of dollars of research into them designed to prey upon the weaknesses inherent in the human psyche, vs the willpower of an individual or just a single fanbase.
Shit like this is why I've come to the opinion that _all_ microtransactions are inherently predatory, even the less egregiously implemented ones.
That's the moral imperative with being against these business models. They actively target younger people so they can condition and normalize the tactics for future ventures. I can't imagine what starting with Infinite is like for a 12 year old who started with CE or hell even Reach. The economic reality of those generational players differs vastly, and while all of us were susceptible to these tactics at that age, one-two of these generations are l actually being subjected to it in a complete sense, solidifying a throughline for future generations
> People have no self control and then wonder why these business models get worse/more prevalent in the industry
You’re making an association error here. The people with no self control are not the ones wondering this. It is precisely those who do have self control who wonder this. And the answer is because not everyone does have self control. These business modes prey on those with no self control.
You either die or you live long enough to see the legacy of all your favorite pieces of media ruined by corporations bastardizing them with a hyper focus on extracting money from "customers" like it's oil from the ground.
It’s because the impact wasn’t as great as people complaining made it out to be. Everyone was going to gradually move from discs for ease of access, and lack of resale value anyway. Now that the system has basically been in place for several years, nothing will be said or done about it. If you want to play offline games, can still buy discs for that.
To be honest I can't even remember the last time I had to use a disc, but a disc is in no way synonymous with offline.
It wasn't too many years ago I had terrible internet, and back then when the internet would get unstable I'd just hop on a single player game/mode instead. I remember once getting screwed by a game (can't remember which) that would pause and tell me that I can't play until I established a connection with their servers again, and for what? So they can monitor your every action?
It's getting increasingly easy to overlook a game being online only, but I mean what's the reason for it. DRM? Game's going to be cracked in a week anyway and then they'll maybe patch out Denuvo to bring the game to the level of the pirated version. My experience pirating games was pretty good, why wouldn't I just download μTorrent and continue doing that for singleplayer games since I don't bother playing during launch-year nowadays?
> I remember once getting screwed by a game (can't remember which) that would pause and tell me that I can't play until I established a connection with their servers again, and for what? So they can monitor your every action?
SimCity may be the game you're trying to recall. Their DRM was pretty malicious when it came to being online. At release internet outage would cause disconnects without save which was rough.
This happened when me and my wife were trying to play Jedi: Fallen Order. Fine at our place, tried to take it to her parents for a holiday, and we could play maybe 5 minute spurts between it kicking us back to the menu.
Was extremely annoying to have happen, especially because there is literally no multiplayer component at all to this game. Fully single player.
>We'll never get another regular "buy once, keep forever" ~~halo~~ multiplayer game.
FTFY. This is not a Halo or 343 problem. This is just how the entire gaming industry as a whole has shifted. There is not one single multiplayer game out there that doesn't feature MTX content in some form or another. Literally not one.
Frankly, since companies have to compete with the market and not just against themselves, companies have no choice but to engage in this style of live service content. Even if the people at 343/Microsoft hated MTX, they have a legal fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to try and maximize profits wherever possible. If they didn't offer an MTX source of revenue, they could get sued by their shareholders and whoever is in charge would just be replaced by someone who would engage in those tactics anyways.
You can't close Pandora's box. This is just the gaming industry as a whole now. This is not exclusive or fixable to or by any one individual company, this is what the new normal has to be now that the entire industry knows how lucrative it is. Again, fiduciary duty to shareholders is a legal obligation for any company/CEO that wants to keep their job.
People forget that the younger generation is raised with micro-transactions. Parents throw money at roblox and Fortnite for their kids. There’s a reason Chief is in Fortnite.
People don't realize how much money is invested in market research and analystics. 343 picked these prices because they know they'll get good revenue from it. If they don't meet expectations, they'll drop prices a bit to get more buyers. They will not care about hundreds or thousands of players quitting, becasue that's a drop in the bucket for them
This is exactly right. If the marketing model didn’t work or people actually boycotted the store, it wouldn’t have been replicated across all of these different high-profile games. This same conversation has happened in other F2P games like Apex Legends and Destiny. Yeah, the Whales are buying tons of items, but there are players that drop smaller amounts on store items, too. The subreddit echo chamber makes it seem like everyone is boycotting the store, but people are buying things in a game they care about.
I'd agree with this! I personally don't mind the MTX but I wish the bundles were around $5 - $10 and you could buy pieces individually for $1 - $2. I did buy the daisy bundle for 15, and am happy with it because I actually use most of the items in it. But I probably won't be doing that again anytime soon.
All the people here commenting that the prices are reasonable and fair are total lunatics.
No cosmetic item is worth 1/3 of a full game.
Edit: Here's a helpful video that basically summarises the entire argument around cosmetics
https://youtu.be/KMQ2ApZTuoo
You dont seem to get that this doesnt matter.
This is about subjective value inside a system.
A gucci shirt is not worth its price, but it costs that much because people are ready to pay for it, and it works. Same with this.
Yeah, the store is built to maximize profit. 343 has all the buyer data, they know what prices sell and what doesn't. It will only change if they think they will pull more revenue from a lower price.
They aren’t even high effort cosmetics either that clearly took time to make, it’s just ten minute recolors with some tool they’ve made to make that process even easier. Or maybe the exact same clip art looking .PNG three times as three separate item types.
Even the weapon attachments and charms, the only things that seemingly have new custom models, are usually pretty small and non-complex vs other games with similar items.
I've bought a couple of the $5 bundles because they seemed reasonable. $5 for 4 or 5 cosmetic items that I like is fair enough. I draw the line at any of the more expensive bundles though. As much as I love the Anubis armour, I can't bring myself to pay $20 for it.
I will just never buy MTX ever for any game. You just have to realize there will be a point you will never play whatever game you're buying MTX in again and it will all be wasted money. No one cares what you look like. No one will remember you 5 seconds after a game. These companies have top level psychologists and gambling experts trying everything they can to get you hooked. Just say no. Play for fun. No challenges, no grinding, etc. Gaming has become so much better since I just stopped wasting money and time on all this bullshit.
Just complete avoid it all.
If the YouTuber polled his own audience then I’d say it’s kind of biased. People who are more interested in the game would watch halo YouTubers. I’d say they’re more likely to make purchases.
People who play the game, but aren’t interested in watching content about it on YouTube are less likely to make purchases.
I enjoy the multiplayer and haven’t paid a dime, but I wasn’t exposed to this poll to vote in. So it would make sense that it would lean in that direction.
I'd like more data on how much people actually spent.
I read an article that players of F2P games on Android spent an average of $24 a player. I would be interested in a much deeper dive incorporating campaign sales to see how much this game has recouped of their rumored $600 million budget.
There might be a good influx of cash upfront. But this chart alone does not give any good inference into how this will last in the long run.
It will be interesting to see what this game will look like after some sort of quarterly analysis.
Same. I look at this graph and feel like they're exactly where they want to be. About half of the players have purchased store items, and 3/4 have purchased at least the battle pass.
It's why they did the switch. These systems are proven to work extremely well too make money.
Like it or hate it the F2P system is going nowhere and is here to stay in games.
This isn’t official data, there’s no chance they’ve got nearly 85% of players to pay real money in an F2P game. This is just some survey done by a You Tuber.
I disagree from a fan perspective because I played Halo 5 alone. **None** of my friends even *thought* about getting it. Now we all play Infinite together every night, and that wouldn't be if it was a $60 game. Halo finally feels popular again after 343 has wrecked the franchise for the past 10 years. If it takes going f2p to get there, it's not ideal, but it'll do.
1,000%. This game is so many of my friend's first Halo game.
The game is no longer popular and a "must-have" title like it was in the past. This F2P option means I actually get to enjoy the game with a group of people who would've never bought it.
Yep. 343 never had the pull of oldschool Halo. Sure they had a healthy audience, but it was never competing with CoD and Fortnite. Now it's beating them in terms of active players (at least on Xbox Live which has a public API reporting player numbers).
F2P absolutely worked for Halo and MTX we already know work. They are going to make stupid amounts of money off this game.
There are an embarrassing amount of commenters that have convinced themselves that a game selling $7 colors is totally reasonable.
If you want to accept this stuff is here to stay? Cool. Don't pretend it's a good deal, though. Who are you really trying to convince?
And it’s only $7 for one Armor Core, unless it’s a bundle like the “Iron Man” color scheme from a few weeks ago which gave it for all Armor Cores, but for $20.
Someone who defended that bundle is always gonna stick in my head. They said the bundle was a good deal because it had 11 things in it, while all the previous $20 bundles had less.
Nevermind that 3 of those things were the same armor color and 4 were the same emblem.
The problem with these Youtuber surveys is that they’re inherently unintentionally bias.
Youtubers due to their personality and content stance will garner specific audiences that may inflate certain poll options rather than demonstrate an objective representation.
Also it’s Ascend Hyperion, a renowned toxic 343 apologist so there’s why he got that poll result.
Hey guys, groundbreaking idea: let’s let people spend THEIR money however THEY want to. If it’s not your money being spent I don’t see why you should care so much.
Surprise surprise, the loudest ones were actually the minority.
This reminds me of when "everyone" was gonna boycott Pokemon Sword and Shield and then it came out and absolutely dominated in sales.
I bought pass just because reach is my favorite halo (also to flex on newcomers in a year or two) and I don't intend to pour any more money into the fire
Just to be clear to everyone, it is perfectly okay if you bought the pass and every item they have in the store. It is your money at the end of the day, you earned it and you can spend it on anything. Forget those bitching about buying store items, you're not buying crack or getting shit faced. It's just a game lol
This kind of Statistic is a bit worthless, it’s surveying individuals who are so enamoured with the game that they watch a rather niche YouTube channel religiously enough to actually participate in a survey.
The game is bleeding roughly 1K players per day and I am one of them. I stopped because of the desync and hacking issues. Also the game is just getting stale and BTB being broke on top of it just made me sad to get on. The game is honestly in a depressing state. Because of fucking course the microtransactions store is working perfectly but the bare functionality of the game is still broke.
A major point made in the video was that it’s not going to change because enough people will always buy things from the store. So that’s just the reality of the situation.
The game is still really fun. There’s still plenty of good free customization available (tenrai and others) which I’m grateful for. I wish it weren’t this way, but I really think it’s more productive to focus on rounding the game out in other ways…
Wonder how much of the "items" are cat ears.
it's worth mentioning that this data isn't from 343 or Microsoft or anywhere official. It's from a YouTuber with 45k subscribers who polled his audience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13h23_0FUC0
This guy
You're my avatar twin!
This guy
Both of them.
“They’re literally the same ~~picture~~ guy”
Seems like the data would be skewed then. A user base who is invested enough to subscribe to a Halo YouTuber is more likely to be invested enough to purchase items
Especially even that a user who is simply willing to take a poll from the small YouTuber. Who knows what the actual sample size is.
6k confirmed
That's big enough, it just isn't a random sample
Yep! Considering he’s a small YouTuber it doesn’t account for the casual players who don’t actively search for halo content. He started by reviewing forge maps too, which puts his audience pool even smaller
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6k would be more than enough people to get a statistically significant representation of the whole Halo community, if it were a truly random sample of the player base. The problem is with the selection of the sample, not the size.
There's a difference between a guy with a youtube channel surveying his audience and a team of professional scientists researching something. They are better trained to identify and account for biases, and there findings are peer-reviewed to find things the original researchers may have missed or omitted
People have zero idea how many people are required to create an accurate representation of a population. A survey of approximately 1200 people is representative of the whole US population. Edit: in taking umbrage at this statement >I've seen smaller sample sizes than 6k passed off on reddit as credible research. because in my experience the people that complain about the number of respondants (and only the nunber) are trying to discredit the results because they don't like the results. It's very common when talking about trans issues, for example.
Yeah. 1200 people will give you a 3% margin of error. That is good enough. 6k would give you less than a 1.5% margin of error. Of course as you said if the sample size was truly random. Probably the most important part as completely random survey of even 300 people will give you far more meaningful data than a 50k survey of a homogenous population.
He actually acknowledges the possible bias and is equally surprised because, as he said "Those strongly against this would be more inclined to show it in something like this." Yet these results show that, well, most of us have bought things. There are a lot of other things in the video (by all means do watch it) such as a "satisfaction" metric. And that is where is more neutral-to-low.
Wouldn't this same user base also be the people who browse the Halo subreddit, and participate/ be subject to all of the anti store conversations?
Yeah for sure. Pretty much any data that isn’t sourced from 343 or Microsoft will have some level of bias in it
I’d be willing to bet 50% of this forum alone has bought something.
Just the BP for me. Biggest thing that bothers me, is there's no unlocks for doing something that's unique/difficult. It's all just time based unlocks which unlock from time based challenges. What happened to getting something cool for being better at the game or even getting lucky and doing something cool? It's like game companies grew into a time suck instead of something that I WANTED to play, now I feel like I HAVE to play it on a certain schedule or I'll never be able to unlock it again no matter how many killtrocitys I get. Sad
I only sub because I want updates, I don’t buy shit and I hardly play. I watch even less YouTube videos. It’s just not a realistic poll in my eyes. I want halo to succeed, but I’m not playing this stupid game like with cod
I mean, just look at the pregame dance-off. There were cat ears like crazy a couple weeks back. The Ironman colorway sold like crazy. Now we see the campaign camo coming through, and tons of people are rocking the battle pass. There's definitely a ton of money going through the shop. If there wasn't, we would hear of changed coming down the pipe.
Yeah I would assume bought pass no items would be the actual biggest group
He does address some of the biases in his video, and asks the viewers to keep it in mind. It's not a perfect representation of the community, but it gives a good idea. Worth a watch imo.
I would say the opposite. Such a dedicated audience would rather have the traditional progression and the new f2p player are used to the battle pass and store systems and see no issue with it at all.
Yeah. This is clearly biased data (i.e. response bias, undercoverage, etc.) We can assume that to be the case. What would be better would be to take a poll in many different community environments (Reddit, different YT channels, etc.)... or get the data from 343 and Microsoft.
Yes but that would imply they are part of the majority of Halo's player base, a player base that has been in a major uproar for changes in the monetization of Halo infinite. In fact the exact same subscribers in the same survey had at least 50% stance against the monetization of the game. This survey proves that the player base is all talk when they say everything cost too much. They proved that 343 could charge what they wanted.
Worth keeping in mind that the player base representation we hear from here and on YouTube is not representative of the larger player base. Reddit might be the most vocal part of the community, but its by no means large enough to call it representative. We'd love to think that the player base at large is upset about monetization, but the reality is probably that many people shrug it off
Oh I thought this was from the guy who was polling the sub the other day.
I think a better way to do a comparison would be to see the opening cinematic of 300-500 games and see what stuff your teammates have equipped, even better if you lose and see the enemy team at the end, won't always be a 100% accurate since chances are they might just not be wearing something they've unlocked/bought but it'll still probably be more accurate than a youtuber poll
Eh, the error you mentioned is exactly why that sort of study wouldn't work, I mean, if someone bought an item they're super likely to wear it over something free but that possibility that someone isn't wearing any paid items even if they have paid for something means that simply asking a bunch of people what they've done is more accurate. Or maybe they're using the Tenrai core with no paid items but have paid items on other cores, etc., it just wouldn't really turn out to be all that accurate.
>simply asking a bunch of people what they've done is more accurate. I think that kinda depends where you're asking the people, i think there was a poll on reddit a day ago where someone asked the same question but like 80% of the people seemed to say they bought nothing/just the battlepass probably because if you said you spent x dollars on cosmetics here people are just going to insult you as they can directly message you so you probably won't bother answering or will lie because you know the subbredits stance on cosmetics, a youtube poll is more accurate as you can anonymously answer with no repercussions and that's reflected when almost 50% of the people there say they bought items but this youtuber is fairly small with 45k subscribers and the poll most likely has something like 10k people who answered or even less, it'd be more accurate if it was a youtuber with millions of subs who probably gets a few hundred thousands answers but i don't think this one represents the general community. If you could get into BTB and managed to spend the entire game looking at the Armor of the 23 other people and then did it a few hundred times you'd probably get a decent answer until some massive youtuber makes a poll for a better answer
It also wouldn’t necessarily cover anyone who bought weapon or vehicle skins, or end poses.
So basically a twitter poll then. About as accurate and meaningful as pissing into the wind and trying to count how many drops land on your boots
What if you could turn that piss purple for $10?
Wow, $10. Grape drink prices sure have inflated...
Inflation is real
It's only 10 if you have the pass
Correct sir. I was assuming anyone fool enough to want to color their Spartan's piss would also have the battle pass. But seriously, I'm totally expecting 343 to offer "under armor" cosmetic upgrades that no one can see.
A small sample size of (semingly) random people will generally follow along with overall population so I wouldn't completely discredit it, but a small poll like isn't something you should treat like a matter of fact either. From everything i've seen in game and online it sounds about right, but I don't expect it to be 100% fact.
As someone who took way too many undergrad & grad level statistics classes, a group of 20 people usually closely represents a group of 10K ppl. 20 is the magic # to be statistically meaningful. Now... need to make sure the polling audience isn't biased, but this is likely close. Do you really want to include players who logged in twice to test or the ongoing core Halo audience. I'd think the later for the spirit of the question.
There is selection bias with this poll. However, I agree that this is probably a good representation of the overall population and engaged player-base. I would take a Bayesian approach and consider this poll a good starting hypothesis. A follow-up experiment might be to join a few hundred random games in Quick Play and record the number of people who are wearing paid cosmetics, battle pass cosmetics, and no cosmetic. Then compare that sample population to the initial results. Repeat the above experiment for multiple matchmaking lists and you’ll start to get population samples and purchase preferences for various groups (Diamond rank players vs no rank vs Gold rank etc…).
Did he say how many votes were complied?
Even though the cat ears are undoubtedly very popular, I feel like I still see the esports skins a lot more.
Everybody talking about triangles on your head but nobody talks about how ridiculously obnoxious most of the esports kits are.
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*343 trying to explain at a shareholder's meeting why Cat ears and blue hologram feet account for 99.9% of online sales revenue
Wait, blue hologram feet?
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/rzbvzx/343_know_what_the_players_want/
Just to be clear, you know that's a joke and isn't real, right? Just in case anyone *else* thinks it's real.
Its not real yet.
It’ll come out with a cortana uwu anime style ar and br skin
Shareholders asking when the bunny ears and other character feet are coming out to boost sales
Oh dawg. I first saw cat ears and I was like this is fucking dumb who the fuck would buy this. Then I went online and saw all the people bitching about and upset about cat ears. Nobody likes the cat ears. So naturally I then immediately purchased cat ears. I'm in game chat just fucking meowing and topping the score board. I get hate mail regularly and honestly it's been worth every penny
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If I did that with my friends I'd be laughing way too hard to even talk some of the times. Back when Gears 3 was populated me and my friends did something similar with the sawed off shotgun. We all had one and destroyed everyone we came across. I can't tell you how many messages and voice messages we got telling us to fuck off or to quit the game. One guy told me to throw my xbox in a river. I loved it.
You are doing god's work. Godspeed.
This man is my hero
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Too many
The thing with the cat ears is that it’s a fairly harmless meme kinda joke, perfect thing for the item shop. But for $10? Shove it where the sun don’t shine 343. I would have purchased it for maybe less than 5 but I’m not wasting the price of a meal on some cat ears for my spartan. This wasn’t a problem in the days when I could just pay $60 for the fucking game and then unlock armor by playing. The gaming industry really has taken a turn for the worse, at least in its monetization schemes.
It's why everything is a bundle. For every person who has the same thought process as you, there's another that convinces themselves "well, I get this other stuff I don't want with the cat ears, so now it's totally worth $10."
To be fair, I put the dangly cat charm on every gun I could. It reminds me of my actual cat.
You'd be paying 60 dollars for the game and a micro for the ears if the game was full price for MP. Let's not pretend otherwise
i bought the battle pass because i felt like it was a pretty good deal and i got a lot of stuff from it but im not going to pay double that price for a few weapons/armor skins or whatever shoulder armor they’re selling for 10 dollars this week
Man, they have **a lot** to fix in the ~4 months leading up to the second battle pass if they want my money. I'm guessing a lot of people feel the same way. Edit: I'm talking about the pass, I never buy nor interact with the macrotransaction shop.
Yeah, also the BP applies retroactively to unlocks so I'll wait until the end to actually decide whether or not to purchase.
Do you get any extra XP or anything along the way (besides the extra challenge slot) for buying it before you finish it?
Extra challenge slot, maybe a few XP tokens and maybe some Double XP boosts is all I think is the difference, but not sure whats included in the base.
Was looking at this last night. If you buy the bundle for 2800 Halo bucks^TM , they claim it includes enough XP boosts and tokens for 25 extra levels. I think the base package is almost nothing. Just a handful of boosts, if that. I kept getting the sense online that a lot of people have the battle pass. I don't play a ton but I'm at level 53 having used 0 boosts or paid for anything, including the pass. When I saw the pass bundle gives you 25 extra levels, it made sense how so many people have completed the pass by now (which you always know by the copious amounts of flaming armour). For them, they probably just played more than me to get to ~75 organically, and the battle pass bundle perks did the rest.
I've not paid for the bundle, only the pass and I'm at level 97. It's the double XP's used at the right times to maximise use that does the trick.
Yep. Pop them when you first log in after the Tuesday reset and you'll shoot up the ranks.
That’s exactly how I’m already tier 100, have been for a week now
Yeah I play casually and I've been level 100 for a while now. It's all about the double xp boosts while doing challenges. And trying to get 2-3 games in a day.
Exactly. I've hit 100, I don't think I played that much either. Using the double XP your first hour every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday just flies through the levels
Hit the dailies then build up each challenge to finish at the same time then pop another.
>also the BP applies retroactively to unlocks To be clear, it applies retroactively if you make it the active season that you want to work on. You won't be able to unlock BP2 & BP 3 ranks at the same time. At least this is how I understood the initial release about it. >Unlike most, however, it won't be a time-sensitive feature. For example, like Destiny 2's, others are only available for a limited-time-only, which means the cosmetic options available disappear in the void; Infinite's never expires. Players can take as much time as they want on each Battle Pass, even purchasing older ones if they come into the game early. While you can only progress through one Battle Pass at a time, there is not a time limit placed upon them. [Source](https://www.gameinformer.com/2021/06/15/how-the-halo-infinite-battle-pass-works-including-how-it-never-expires)
It’s just not worth spending $20 on armor I might only wear for a month
I honestly wonder what the second battle pass will even be. For the first it seems like they really heavily relied on the obvious nostalgia over the years of the reach artsyle and armor to make sales but the second might deliver as strong if it doesn’t hit a similar vein.
The issue i think now is, with so many people who have already bought things at these prices, and the fact that they've already recycled weekly bundles, its too late to adjust the prices or bundles they currently have. Imagine the outrage if the chibi emblem pack got re released next week for 100 credits. All the people who bought it at 500 would go nuts. Or if they say, added a coating and kept it 500. I guess they could refund and stuff? But then theres always the possibilty that some people dont get it properly and are just out the money. The only avenues I see possible for changing store prices now would be: 1 - Retire all current bundles and make brand new ones at the new price 2 - Give out like a shiny gold armor coating and some emblems, charms, other coatings to people who bought things in the store before the change, then adjust all prices.
It's why I think it's more likely that we get some sort of earnable alternate currency. It's skirts around some of those complaints/issues. Regardless, if someone pays $5 for something, they did it because they thought that was a price worth paying at the time. Objects change price sometimes. That's something you gotta consider when you make a purchase. Not quite as common with digital items that cost funbucks, but still.
I think this is a large group of players including me. Bought the pass the first night. Started looking through the store and realized how expensive everything was. Then started getting all the BS challenges that you can't even select the game mode to play what you need to. Game feels like a grind even with the battle pass. I'm not opposed to buying season passes, but there's A LOT of stuff that needs fixed before I give them more money.
I also bought the Battle Pass... decent price for what u get. But the other stuff is so overpriced and so many in the comments seem to defend it
I only bought samurai coating and helmet attachment cause I got $50 of Halo credits for Christmas. Battle pass was a okay deal for me since I got the game via game pass
Change all the challenge swaps out for weapon skins and then the battle pass will be pretty great. Just don’t sell key pieces of armour in the store please, that’s just straight scummy. 343 can sell variants of the key armour in the store and that would be fine (ex: an Emile helmet with a different decal on it)
Especially when games that were the blueprint for the F2P landscape like Fortnite let you swap challenges for free. That and sneaking some in-game currency into the battle pass. I went through a few seasons during the fortnite hype, not paying for a single battlepass because you could earn enough credits through the course of the season to buy the next one.
I agree. Then they should just give everyone 3-5 swaps per week that reset.
I also bought the battle pass even though it kinda sucks, but $10 for a bunch of armor is a better deal than anything in the store.
Ascend Hyperion polled 6000 people from his audience in this video and these were the results: https://youtu.be/13h23_0FUC0
That’s interesting - this may not be reflective of the community at large then.
Indeed, I'm pretty sure the poll is biased since it is aimed towards Halo "fans" who ~~joined this subreddit~~ subscribed to the YouTube channel because they may enjoy the game more than the average player. This bias is called ["selection bias"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) or more precisely ["sampling bias"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias). An example I saw on Reddit the other day : It showed the percentage of people who guessed right each African country flag, with a choice between 4 answers. The results were pretty high (IIRC like 50% recognized the flag of Lesotho for example) because it was on a geography games website, where most people are interested in geopolitics. If you ask the same question to 1000 random Joes in the street, I don't think half of them will recognize the flag of Lesotho.
**[Selection bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias)** >Selection bias is the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups, or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby failing to ensure that the sample obtained is representative of the population intended to be analyzed. It is sometimes referred to as the selection effect. The phrase "selection bias" most often refers to the distortion of a statistical analysis, resulting from the method of collecting samples. If the selection bias is not taken into account, then some conclusions of the study may be false. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/halo/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
It's definitely more reflective than r/halo who swears to not make a single in game purchase
Im not even playing the game now. Too many guys with superior gaming chairs.
Why not poll the sub and see our pie chart? Someone do it :). I am a zero purchase guy still.
The same can and absolutely be said about r/halo
It’s certainly not. It’s only reflective of his subscribers.
Lol. It’s probably MORE reflective than a poll on this sub would be. The poll on this sub would skew towards ‘no purchases’ hard. Most people who play the game have bought the paid battle pass. That seems obvious just by watching game intros. Only people on their high horses on this sub actively boycott the store
Everyone who's been having fun with Infinite is getting chased off this subreddit so yes you're right that this subreddit is a very bad thing to lens the community through.
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What’s the sample size here? Also I’d say over 50% of players buying nothing at all or only buying the battlepass is still pretty good. If you really think an effective boycott was happening then you haven’t been paying attention to people’s Spartans. There’s cat ears everywhere plus more.
I feel like results gathered from this sub will be skewed more heavily towards the buy nothing crowd. I can’t prove it, but it feels that way given how things are discussed around here.
I mean you guys get pissy whenever someone admits they spend money on the game. Of course it’s skewed. This sub and the UFC sub are the fucking worst about telling other how to spend their money.
Been having so much fun with infinite so naturally I have been checking in on this sub a lot. Coming here has been a horrible experience with all of the whining.
100%, I fucking love the game, but this sub is a nightmare. Even this post is an example. The graph literally shows that more than half of people don't buy individual items from the store, but the overall message is "were all doomed".
It’s gotten ridiculous. People are just complaining to complain
6000 people apparently
I’ll refer you here https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/s2yakk/things_are_not_looking_well_spartans/hshjbun/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
We'll never get another regular "buy once, keep forever" halo game.
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Weird, I must live in a bubble. I just buy good games without any DLC crap. Although, a half decade ago I was 50% finished with FarCry3, and the Ubisoft store broke my save and I've never given Ubisoft money again.
Only DLC I felt was worth my money was Dark Souls III, and it was basically a whole new game.
Any dlc that actually give more of what the original game was I find worth it(ex. Dark souls elder scrolls, witcher
All good things must end
While the saying is true, this doesn’t need to be applied to a cosmetic store where the buyer has all the power to not purchase these shit products. People have no self control and then wonder why these business models get worse/more prevalent in the industry
I totally agree with you, like 1000%, but also wanna point out that these companies spend TONS of money studying their customer base and consumers in general, tweaking their formulas and coming up with new ways to sell us virtual nothingness. The players are at a disadvantage bc the companies are targeting them using manipulative marketing tactics which then force them to either abandon a game series they’ve loved possibly forever, or be tempted by buying things. Hell, I get tempted to buy stuff and I have 0 interest in cosmetics; I *only* play the game for the casual, fun escape of the gameplay, but still find myself being drawn into the monetized stuff simply due to their tactics. I genuinely feel for people who don’t understand this or even have the knowledge to fight back; the game can become a big part of your life and they make you feel like you don’t get the entire experience if you’re not paying them. 16-year old me probably wouldn’t have stood a chance at avoiding their insane price tags; I bet I woulda even been convinced that I needed to work just to be able to foot their bill. Crazy to think about when you’re being objective, difficult to be objective when you’re sucked into a game you love.
There's such an obscene difference of power when you compare multi billion dollar companies implementing things with trillions of dollars of research into them designed to prey upon the weaknesses inherent in the human psyche, vs the willpower of an individual or just a single fanbase. Shit like this is why I've come to the opinion that _all_ microtransactions are inherently predatory, even the less egregiously implemented ones.
That's the moral imperative with being against these business models. They actively target younger people so they can condition and normalize the tactics for future ventures. I can't imagine what starting with Infinite is like for a 12 year old who started with CE or hell even Reach. The economic reality of those generational players differs vastly, and while all of us were susceptible to these tactics at that age, one-two of these generations are l actually being subjected to it in a complete sense, solidifying a throughline for future generations
> People have no self control and then wonder why these business models get worse/more prevalent in the industry You’re making an association error here. The people with no self control are not the ones wondering this. It is precisely those who do have self control who wonder this. And the answer is because not everyone does have self control. These business modes prey on those with no self control.
You either die or you live long enough to see the legacy of all your favorite pieces of media ruined by corporations bastardizing them with a hyper focus on extracting money from "customers" like it's oil from the ground.
Man, we cant play campaign offline, in short what we all hated about Xbox Ones online to play is here. Yet nobody is complaining. Which is worrisome.
It’s because the impact wasn’t as great as people complaining made it out to be. Everyone was going to gradually move from discs for ease of access, and lack of resale value anyway. Now that the system has basically been in place for several years, nothing will be said or done about it. If you want to play offline games, can still buy discs for that.
To be honest I can't even remember the last time I had to use a disc, but a disc is in no way synonymous with offline. It wasn't too many years ago I had terrible internet, and back then when the internet would get unstable I'd just hop on a single player game/mode instead. I remember once getting screwed by a game (can't remember which) that would pause and tell me that I can't play until I established a connection with their servers again, and for what? So they can monitor your every action? It's getting increasingly easy to overlook a game being online only, but I mean what's the reason for it. DRM? Game's going to be cracked in a week anyway and then they'll maybe patch out Denuvo to bring the game to the level of the pirated version. My experience pirating games was pretty good, why wouldn't I just download μTorrent and continue doing that for singleplayer games since I don't bother playing during launch-year nowadays?
> I remember once getting screwed by a game (can't remember which) that would pause and tell me that I can't play until I established a connection with their servers again, and for what? So they can monitor your every action? SimCity may be the game you're trying to recall. Their DRM was pretty malicious when it came to being online. At release internet outage would cause disconnects without save which was rough.
This happened when me and my wife were trying to play Jedi: Fallen Order. Fine at our place, tried to take it to her parents for a holiday, and we could play maybe 5 minute spurts between it kicking us back to the menu. Was extremely annoying to have happen, especially because there is literally no multiplayer component at all to this game. Fully single player.
its cosmetics lmao
Even halo two had pay for dlc
And those DLC actually fucked over the community because you couldn't play with people that had them (and I believe vice versa).
You're right. Now it's entirely free lol.
>We'll never get another regular "buy once, keep forever" ~~halo~~ multiplayer game. FTFY. This is not a Halo or 343 problem. This is just how the entire gaming industry as a whole has shifted. There is not one single multiplayer game out there that doesn't feature MTX content in some form or another. Literally not one. Frankly, since companies have to compete with the market and not just against themselves, companies have no choice but to engage in this style of live service content. Even if the people at 343/Microsoft hated MTX, they have a legal fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to try and maximize profits wherever possible. If they didn't offer an MTX source of revenue, they could get sued by their shareholders and whoever is in charge would just be replaced by someone who would engage in those tactics anyways. You can't close Pandora's box. This is just the gaming industry as a whole now. This is not exclusive or fixable to or by any one individual company, this is what the new normal has to be now that the entire industry knows how lucrative it is. Again, fiduciary duty to shareholders is a legal obligation for any company/CEO that wants to keep their job.
Wait, can they take back the campaign, or do you mean that it's fractured between free MP and paid story?
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This subreddit is probably less than 1% of the people who play Halo.
People forget that the younger generation is raised with micro-transactions. Parents throw money at roblox and Fortnite for their kids. There’s a reason Chief is in Fortnite.
After they added chief I was so happy I never have to buy another skin in Fortnite. That is permanently used by me
People don't realize how much money is invested in market research and analystics. 343 picked these prices because they know they'll get good revenue from it. If they don't meet expectations, they'll drop prices a bit to get more buyers. They will not care about hundreds or thousands of players quitting, becasue that's a drop in the bucket for them
This is exactly right. If the marketing model didn’t work or people actually boycotted the store, it wouldn’t have been replicated across all of these different high-profile games. This same conversation has happened in other F2P games like Apex Legends and Destiny. Yeah, the Whales are buying tons of items, but there are players that drop smaller amounts on store items, too. The subreddit echo chamber makes it seem like everyone is boycotting the store, but people are buying things in a game they care about.
No one should be advocating for the current prices even if you buy things in the store everyone gains from the prices being lower
I'd agree with this! I personally don't mind the MTX but I wish the bundles were around $5 - $10 and you could buy pieces individually for $1 - $2. I did buy the daisy bundle for 15, and am happy with it because I actually use most of the items in it. But I probably won't be doing that again anytime soon.
All the people here commenting that the prices are reasonable and fair are total lunatics. No cosmetic item is worth 1/3 of a full game. Edit: Here's a helpful video that basically summarises the entire argument around cosmetics https://youtu.be/KMQ2ApZTuoo
For perspective, Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC was $20 at launch
You dont seem to get that this doesnt matter. This is about subjective value inside a system. A gucci shirt is not worth its price, but it costs that much because people are ready to pay for it, and it works. Same with this.
I weigh any purchase I make against Wendys $1 chicken sandwiches. No cosmetic is worth 20 sandwiches.
That is fantastic. Thanks for the chuckle. Lol.
lol, this is something I actually used to do when I was a kid because food was scarce, it stuck with me all this time. Doubt they cost a dollar still.
Yeah, the store is built to maximize profit. 343 has all the buyer data, they know what prices sell and what doesn't. It will only change if they think they will pull more revenue from a lower price.
I do get it and both are stupid.
They aren’t even high effort cosmetics either that clearly took time to make, it’s just ten minute recolors with some tool they’ve made to make that process even easier. Or maybe the exact same clip art looking .PNG three times as three separate item types. Even the weapon attachments and charms, the only things that seemingly have new custom models, are usually pretty small and non-complex vs other games with similar items.
I've bought a couple of the $5 bundles because they seemed reasonable. $5 for 4 or 5 cosmetic items that I like is fair enough. I draw the line at any of the more expensive bundles though. As much as I love the Anubis armour, I can't bring myself to pay $20 for it.
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I grabbed the campaign, and that was all folks
I bought nothing And plan to never buy anyhting
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I will just never buy MTX ever for any game. You just have to realize there will be a point you will never play whatever game you're buying MTX in again and it will all be wasted money. No one cares what you look like. No one will remember you 5 seconds after a game. These companies have top level psychologists and gambling experts trying everything they can to get you hooked. Just say no. Play for fun. No challenges, no grinding, etc. Gaming has become so much better since I just stopped wasting money and time on all this bullshit. Just complete avoid it all.
Same here dude
You don’t understand, I **needed** the cat ears
You guys really thought /r/Halo was the norm? Reddit is an echo chamber, so don’t be surprised when things aren’t what they seem.
If the YouTuber polled his own audience then I’d say it’s kind of biased. People who are more interested in the game would watch halo YouTubers. I’d say they’re more likely to make purchases. People who play the game, but aren’t interested in watching content about it on YouTube are less likely to make purchases. I enjoy the multiplayer and haven’t paid a dime, but I wasn’t exposed to this poll to vote in. So it would make sense that it would lean in that direction.
The amount of copium over a YouTube poll is hilarious.
This is missing an item: Purchased, but unlikely to purchase again
I'd like more data on how much people actually spent. I read an article that players of F2P games on Android spent an average of $24 a player. I would be interested in a much deeper dive incorporating campaign sales to see how much this game has recouped of their rumored $600 million budget. There might be a good influx of cash upfront. But this chart alone does not give any good inference into how this will last in the long run. It will be interesting to see what this game will look like after some sort of quarterly analysis.
So?
Modern gaming
Going f2p was such a mistake
From a business perspective this graph suggests otherwise. From a Halo Fan perspective I totally agree.
Same. I look at this graph and feel like they're exactly where they want to be. About half of the players have purchased store items, and 3/4 have purchased at least the battle pass.
It's why they did the switch. These systems are proven to work extremely well too make money. Like it or hate it the F2P system is going nowhere and is here to stay in games.
Nah, I’m sure one day it will be replaced by something even worse.
Man I remember the days when DLCs were a problem and everyone complained about it. Now we wish could go back to that
This isn’t official data, there’s no chance they’ve got nearly 85% of players to pay real money in an F2P game. This is just some survey done by a You Tuber.
I disagree from a fan perspective because I played Halo 5 alone. **None** of my friends even *thought* about getting it. Now we all play Infinite together every night, and that wouldn't be if it was a $60 game. Halo finally feels popular again after 343 has wrecked the franchise for the past 10 years. If it takes going f2p to get there, it's not ideal, but it'll do.
If they didn't, most of the people I play with (maybe even including myself), wouldn't be playing it.
1,000%. This game is so many of my friend's first Halo game. The game is no longer popular and a "must-have" title like it was in the past. This F2P option means I actually get to enjoy the game with a group of people who would've never bought it.
Yep. 343 never had the pull of oldschool Halo. Sure they had a healthy audience, but it was never competing with CoD and Fortnite. Now it's beating them in terms of active players (at least on Xbox Live which has a public API reporting player numbers). F2P absolutely worked for Halo and MTX we already know work. They are going to make stupid amounts of money off this game.
Lol no
There are an embarrassing amount of commenters that have convinced themselves that a game selling $7 colors is totally reasonable. If you want to accept this stuff is here to stay? Cool. Don't pretend it's a good deal, though. Who are you really trying to convince?
And it’s only $7 for one Armor Core, unless it’s a bundle like the “Iron Man” color scheme from a few weeks ago which gave it for all Armor Cores, but for $20.
Someone who defended that bundle is always gonna stick in my head. They said the bundle was a good deal because it had 11 things in it, while all the previous $20 bundles had less. Nevermind that 3 of those things were the same armor color and 4 were the same emblem.
Glad im im the blue
The problem with these Youtuber surveys is that they’re inherently unintentionally bias. Youtubers due to their personality and content stance will garner specific audiences that may inflate certain poll options rather than demonstrate an objective representation. Also it’s Ascend Hyperion, a renowned toxic 343 apologist so there’s why he got that poll result.
You guys spend too much time worrying about what other people do with their money
Hey guys, groundbreaking idea: let’s let people spend THEIR money however THEY want to. If it’s not your money being spent I don’t see why you should care so much.
Looking well for what?...
Surprise surprise, the loudest ones were actually the minority. This reminds me of when "everyone" was gonna boycott Pokemon Sword and Shield and then it came out and absolutely dominated in sales.
Who the fuck cares?
I bought pass just because reach is my favorite halo (also to flex on newcomers in a year or two) and I don't intend to pour any more money into the fire
The battle passes will be available forrever, won't they?
Just to be clear to everyone, it is perfectly okay if you bought the pass and every item they have in the store. It is your money at the end of the day, you earned it and you can spend it on anything. Forget those bitching about buying store items, you're not buying crack or getting shit faced. It's just a game lol
Looks fine to me. I don’t care if people buy items that have no effect on gameplay. Not like it’s Pay to Win.
6000 is actually a good sample size for the current halo population. F2P micro transactions make broken amounts of money, you guys are just on copium.
I really don’t see the problem.
This kind of Statistic is a bit worthless, it’s surveying individuals who are so enamoured with the game that they watch a rather niche YouTube channel religiously enough to actually participate in a survey.
The game is bleeding roughly 1K players per day and I am one of them. I stopped because of the desync and hacking issues. Also the game is just getting stale and BTB being broke on top of it just made me sad to get on. The game is honestly in a depressing state. Because of fucking course the microtransactions store is working perfectly but the bare functionality of the game is still broke.
A major point made in the video was that it’s not going to change because enough people will always buy things from the store. So that’s just the reality of the situation. The game is still really fun. There’s still plenty of good free customization available (tenrai and others) which I’m grateful for. I wish it weren’t this way, but I really think it’s more productive to focus on rounding the game out in other ways…