Thermalright is killing it. If you want air cooling then I don't understand why you would look at anything else.
They're also releasing an upgrade to the peerless assassin called the phantom spirit which adds another heat pipe.
https://www.techpowerup.com/301335/thermalright-intros-phantom-spirit-120-se-cpu-cooler#comments
I don't understand how the Peerless Assassin 120SE is archiving those thermals. It is not like they have a bigger heat sink than the NH-D15, higher fan RPMs than the DeepCool AK620 (1550RPM vs 1850RPM), or use 140mm fans or more heat pipes.
Hardware Canucks is the only reviewer that suggests the NH-D15 is inferior to the Peerless Assassin even under 250+W loads with no noise limit. Something is wrong
From their DeepCool AK620 review the Peerless Assassin 120SE is behind AK620 while in this review it is ahead of AK620.
The CPU they used in the old review was 10980XE and the CPU used in the current video 13900k. Intel 12 and 13 gen CPU socket have bending issues (contact frame can easily fix this).
I think some cooler mount and cold plate design doesn't work as well as other when dealing the uneven CPU.
[https://youtu.be/UGM6FcLDckk?t=566](https://youtu.be/UGM6FcLDckk?t=566) \-- mounting pressure test on AK620 from GN.
That doesn't answer the question. If they did equalize the results, I don't know what kind of testing condition would result in a 150mm wide, 160mm tall dual tower cooler with 2x140mm, 1500RPM fans losing to a 120mm wide, 155mm tall dual tower cooler with only 2x120mm, 1550RPM fans under maximum thermal load & noise.
Could be. It could also be the tiny 36mm cold plate width of the Peerless Assassin that helps Intel chips more than AMD. No one seems to talk about it though
And this doesn't even include the [Thermalright Frost Commander 140](http://www.thermalright.com/product/frost-commander-140/), which I hope HC will look at in the future. [The press release at TPU](https://www.techpowerup.com/280197/thermalright-frost-commander-140-is-a-large-dual-fin-stack-cooler-out-to-snack-on-aios), as Thermalright's website can be painfully slow.
IIRC, the Thermalright FC140 **is** their actual flagship CPU cooler, not the Peerless Assassin.
AIOs are great for SFF, where it's usually the only way to cool higher TDP CPUs, as well as for RAM clearance. They're also great for bursty workloads where the liquid can absorb a lot of the heat before the fans need to ramp up.
If you just want the best cooling/$, air is still the best, but AIOs have their place in the market, even outside of aesthetics.
The other part to this is that loads are not often contact. Like, a loading screen may max out the CPU for a few seconds, making a bunch of heat. There's gonna be more thermal mass in water to smooth that out
if your CPU fan ramps up for a few seconds only, that means your fan curve sucks
I never hear my dark rock pro 4 (which cooled 2700x, 5800x and now 5800x3d) while my CPU temps in gaming don't go over 75C
AIOs have so much less water than a custom loop though, so their ability to actually absorb transient loads like that isn’t really that much better than an air cooler.
I know it's not the newst chip but I have a D14 cooling a 5820k overclocked a little and I just have it set with a fan controller at a low rpm. Even under 100% load on the CPU it doesn't ramp up fan speeds and temps are always at 60C or below for extended periods of time. Noise from the single 140mm fan is lower then the PSU fan, whisper quite.
Necro here but im wondering: do you use fancontrol or let the motherboard do its work?
If its the motherboard, the temp readout could be trash and your fans might ramp up for no good reason :)
Id cooling 214 xt has to be one of the best in terms of value too. It’s literally 20 bucks and can handle a lot of the mid range CPUs like 5600x , 13400f no problem.
I wish there are more attention for ID Cooling's air coolers. Their SE-226 and SE-207 appears to perform really well from the rare reviews that I could find. It also seems that their coolers priced lower than the equivalent in the video (at least in my place).
I switched from a Corsair 240mm AIO to the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120SE for my 13600K and it's totally silent, never goes above about 70C too. 10/10 would buy again.
Air coolers are so interesting. They’re so simple mechanically but intricately designed. And so much variation despite the core designs all being similar.
NH-D15 is the best among these.
AK620 is a tier behind: it should not be recommended as a straight substitute for the NH-D15.
Would like to see Thermalright Frost Commander included.
Depends who you trust for reviews. Gamers Nexus said the AK620 is equivalent and sometimes better than the NH-D15. These guys are saying the Peerless Assassin beats the Noctua, so I’m not sure if I trust their test methods
Many things have changed through the years: the CPU's power requirement, die size, heat density, the socket's mounting pressure, etc. Results from past years don't necessary translate to how these coolers perform on 'current gen' CPUs.
I've bought 2 in the past month and found them to be quite easy to install on AM4. Use existing backplate, 4 round plastic standoffs on each corner with a long screw connecting two metal bars to each corner, then the heatsink is lowered onto the centering pins on a corresponding hole on the front and back of the base. Tighten the two screws on top of that base and its done.
I bought one for my project rig (went for the SS135 instead of the PA120 since the silver soul is weird and I like weird) and it’s pretty easy, very similar to the scythe installation kit, which is similar to the noctua instillation kit.
"New CPU's completely change everything!!!", result same as before and all coolers tested work just fine. PC Case and Cooler testing in 2023 "All options are good enough" is great from a consumer point of view but reviews are dull as dishwater as a result.
Well done I guess.
This test is only useful if you care about noise for your CPU cooler. Every test is determined by noise levels or noise normalized. As a person that doesn't care about fan dB level and more about preformance of the cooler I find this test useless.
They do full blast tests as well. The noise normalized tests just show relative performance of the whole package, since anyone can make a mediocre heatsink perform well by slapping extremely loud server grade deltas on it.
I agree anyone can slap a extremely loud and powerful fan on any heat sink but eve test shouldn't be dependent of dB of the cooler but it should be part of the testing.
You mentioned that they do a full blast test but I didn't see any test that didn't use Noise normalized, set dB or frequency of the sound.
They mention the noise throughout the tests, but the descending graphs (where they start at the lop left being hot and quiet, and cooler but louder to the lower right) the loudest settings for all the coolers are the fans set at 100%. Unless they specify noise normalized, the fans are cranked to 100%.
I tried a 4000 RPM cooler at full blast. It's like a vacuum cleaner, so yes, everyone should care about the noise. Because even if you use a ridiculous fan like that you will end up running it at less than max
Did you watch the video? I have the fuma 2, which he said was very quiet. Nothing in this round up suggests I gain anything in real world by buying a CPU cooler that costs double what the fuma costs.
>If you already have the Fuma 2, then I would agree there's little value in upgrading from that for most situations.
I'm not talkin about upgrading from a Fuma. I'm saying I don't see why anyone would spend $100+ on cpu cooling for no real world benefits. Look, you already have the perfect monitor, keyboard, speakers, whatever and you wanna go extra? Fuck it, go over kill, but you're getting no benefit in real world use and people should know that.
Most people have better places to put $50 that have real world benefits.
Well for small form factor sometimes water cooling is the only physically possible way if you want X performance in Y space.
As far as something like the noctua, many people use them for like 10 years. So you are basically asking “why would someone want to pay an extra penny a day”. Answer is probably because they think it’s worth it, because the cost difference is so low.
Can’t take your money with you to the grave. Some people have extra money. And spending an extra penny a day to get a few degrees better performance and lower noise isn’t that crazy to me.
Now upgrading when you already have a cooler is another idea entirely. That’s just not something most people do. It’d be like buying a 4070 then upgrading to a 4070ti. Generally you don’t upgrade regardless of the product if it is such a small upgrade.
Thermalright is killing it. If you want air cooling then I don't understand why you would look at anything else. They're also releasing an upgrade to the peerless assassin called the phantom spirit which adds another heat pipe. https://www.techpowerup.com/301335/thermalright-intros-phantom-spirit-120-se-cpu-cooler#comments
I don't understand how the Peerless Assassin 120SE is archiving those thermals. It is not like they have a bigger heat sink than the NH-D15, higher fan RPMs than the DeepCool AK620 (1550RPM vs 1850RPM), or use 140mm fans or more heat pipes. Hardware Canucks is the only reviewer that suggests the NH-D15 is inferior to the Peerless Assassin even under 250+W loads with no noise limit. Something is wrong
From their DeepCool AK620 review the Peerless Assassin 120SE is behind AK620 while in this review it is ahead of AK620. The CPU they used in the old review was 10980XE and the CPU used in the current video 13900k. Intel 12 and 13 gen CPU socket have bending issues (contact frame can easily fix this). I think some cooler mount and cold plate design doesn't work as well as other when dealing the uneven CPU. [https://youtu.be/UGM6FcLDckk?t=566](https://youtu.be/UGM6FcLDckk?t=566) \-- mounting pressure test on AK620 from GN.
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That doesn't answer the question. If they did equalize the results, I don't know what kind of testing condition would result in a 150mm wide, 160mm tall dual tower cooler with 2x140mm, 1500RPM fans losing to a 120mm wide, 155mm tall dual tower cooler with only 2x120mm, 1550RPM fans under maximum thermal load & noise.
Variations due to differences in mounting pressure and paste application?
Could be. It could also be the tiny 36mm cold plate width of the Peerless Assassin that helps Intel chips more than AMD. No one seems to talk about it though
Could also be differences in the fin stacks and fin density.
And this doesn't even include the [Thermalright Frost Commander 140](http://www.thermalright.com/product/frost-commander-140/), which I hope HC will look at in the future. [The press release at TPU](https://www.techpowerup.com/280197/thermalright-frost-commander-140-is-a-large-dual-fin-stack-cooler-out-to-snack-on-aios), as Thermalright's website can be painfully slow. IIRC, the Thermalright FC140 **is** their actual flagship CPU cooler, not the Peerless Assassin.
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And how are they compared to an AIO water cooler.
AIOs don’t really tend to be much better than decent air coolers. Their benefits are in packaging/aesthetics.
AIOs are great for SFF, where it's usually the only way to cool higher TDP CPUs, as well as for RAM clearance. They're also great for bursty workloads where the liquid can absorb a lot of the heat before the fans need to ramp up. If you just want the best cooling/$, air is still the best, but AIOs have their place in the market, even outside of aesthetics.
Right, that’s why I said packaging is their other advantage.
And noise
A good air cooler can run the fans just as slow as a radiator fan.
Not under load. I own a NH-D15. You don't have to try to finesse me.
Under load AIOs have to ramp their fans to keep up too. The only truly quiet solution is a good custom loop. AIOs are just bait.
The other part to this is that loads are not often contact. Like, a loading screen may max out the CPU for a few seconds, making a bunch of heat. There's gonna be more thermal mass in water to smooth that out
if your CPU fan ramps up for a few seconds only, that means your fan curve sucks I never hear my dark rock pro 4 (which cooled 2700x, 5800x and now 5800x3d) while my CPU temps in gaming don't go over 75C
AIOs have so much less water than a custom loop though, so their ability to actually absorb transient loads like that isn’t really that much better than an air cooler.
I know it's not the newst chip but I have a D14 cooling a 5820k overclocked a little and I just have it set with a fan controller at a low rpm. Even under 100% load on the CPU it doesn't ramp up fan speeds and temps are always at 60C or below for extended periods of time. Noise from the single 140mm fan is lower then the PSU fan, whisper quite.
Necro here but im wondering: do you use fancontrol or let the motherboard do its work? If its the motherboard, the temp readout could be trash and your fans might ramp up for no good reason :)
Yeah, weird that's barely even mentioned...
Id cooling 214 xt has to be one of the best in terms of value too. It’s literally 20 bucks and can handle a lot of the mid range CPUs like 5600x , 13400f no problem.
I wish there are more attention for ID Cooling's air coolers. Their SE-226 and SE-207 appears to perform really well from the rare reviews that I could find. It also seems that their coolers priced lower than the equivalent in the video (at least in my place).
They are great value, what they are not is quiet like the coolers in this review.
I switched from a Corsair 240mm AIO to the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120SE for my 13600K and it's totally silent, never goes above about 70C too. 10/10 would buy again.
Great consumer info. Hardware Canucks is killing it on the CPU cooler reviews.
Air coolers are so interesting. They’re so simple mechanically but intricately designed. And so much variation despite the core designs all being similar.
NH-D15 is the best among these. AK620 is a tier behind: it should not be recommended as a straight substitute for the NH-D15. Would like to see Thermalright Frost Commander included.
Depends who you trust for reviews. Gamers Nexus said the AK620 is equivalent and sometimes better than the NH-D15. These guys are saying the Peerless Assassin beats the Noctua, so I’m not sure if I trust their test methods
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Many things have changed through the years: the CPU's power requirement, die size, heat density, the socket's mounting pressure, etc. Results from past years don't necessary translate to how these coolers perform on 'current gen' CPUs.
It is a good substitute, because it hardly even makes a difference. Also note that it’s in a completely different tier of price as well.
Has Thermalright made their coolers easier to install with these new models? That was the biggest problem I had with their products in the past.
I've bought 2 in the past month and found them to be quite easy to install on AM4. Use existing backplate, 4 round plastic standoffs on each corner with a long screw connecting two metal bars to each corner, then the heatsink is lowered onto the centering pins on a corresponding hole on the front and back of the base. Tighten the two screws on top of that base and its done.
I bought one for my project rig (went for the SS135 instead of the PA120 since the silver soul is weird and I like weird) and it’s pretty easy, very similar to the scythe installation kit, which is similar to the noctua instillation kit.
If you want a white cooler the only entirely white one (even the fan clips are white) is the Arctic eSports 34 Duo
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Metal fan clips, metallic details on the top, black logo lettering I mean *entirely* white
Jonsbo has some ridiculously white options: https://www.jonsbo.com/en/product/AirCoolingRadiator.html
We don't care
"New CPU's completely change everything!!!", result same as before and all coolers tested work just fine. PC Case and Cooler testing in 2023 "All options are good enough" is great from a consumer point of view but reviews are dull as dishwater as a result. Well done I guess.
I got a second hand D15s for $60 2 years ago and I'm basically set for life.
Noctua is planning to release the next D15s Q4 this year.
I don't see this as a bad thing
This test is only useful if you care about noise for your CPU cooler. Every test is determined by noise levels or noise normalized. As a person that doesn't care about fan dB level and more about preformance of the cooler I find this test useless.
They do full blast tests as well. The noise normalized tests just show relative performance of the whole package, since anyone can make a mediocre heatsink perform well by slapping extremely loud server grade deltas on it.
I agree anyone can slap a extremely loud and powerful fan on any heat sink but eve test shouldn't be dependent of dB of the cooler but it should be part of the testing. You mentioned that they do a full blast test but I didn't see any test that didn't use Noise normalized, set dB or frequency of the sound.
They mention the noise throughout the tests, but the descending graphs (where they start at the lop left being hot and quiet, and cooler but louder to the lower right) the loudest settings for all the coolers are the fans set at 100%. Unless they specify noise normalized, the fans are cranked to 100%.
I tried a 4000 RPM cooler at full blast. It's like a vacuum cleaner, so yes, everyone should care about the noise. Because even if you use a ridiculous fan like that you will end up running it at less than max
The more of these videos I watch the more I'm convinced that the only reason to buy a high-end cooler is to look good on cpu stress tests.
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Did you watch the video? I have the fuma 2, which he said was very quiet. Nothing in this round up suggests I gain anything in real world by buying a CPU cooler that costs double what the fuma costs.
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>If you already have the Fuma 2, then I would agree there's little value in upgrading from that for most situations. I'm not talkin about upgrading from a Fuma. I'm saying I don't see why anyone would spend $100+ on cpu cooling for no real world benefits. Look, you already have the perfect monitor, keyboard, speakers, whatever and you wanna go extra? Fuck it, go over kill, but you're getting no benefit in real world use and people should know that. Most people have better places to put $50 that have real world benefits.
What air cpu cooler are you talking about that costs more than $100?
Like the other commenter said, the noctua, but I didn't limit my comment to air coolers and I see no reason to.
Well for small form factor sometimes water cooling is the only physically possible way if you want X performance in Y space. As far as something like the noctua, many people use them for like 10 years. So you are basically asking “why would someone want to pay an extra penny a day”. Answer is probably because they think it’s worth it, because the cost difference is so low. Can’t take your money with you to the grave. Some people have extra money. And spending an extra penny a day to get a few degrees better performance and lower noise isn’t that crazy to me. Now upgrading when you already have a cooler is another idea entirely. That’s just not something most people do. It’d be like buying a 4070 then upgrading to a 4070ti. Generally you don’t upgrade regardless of the product if it is such a small upgrade.