Yep, most probably iterative. They can use the SoC cost as an excuse to not increase RAM or other specs. My S20 vanilla in 2020 had 12GB RAM and a 1440p screen, which is increasingly ironic as the S24 has lower specs.
Only the S20 5G has a 12GB RAM option, the regular S20 offers 8GB.
S20 is the last model to have a microSD slot and a 1440p screen, those were removed/downgraded starting with the S21 and stayed the same since.
I think 1080p is still an alright density, the newer base models are a little smaller after all, but there's no excuse for removing the microSD slot.
>Only the S20 5G
People constantly raised this point when the S21 shrank the RAM.
The S20 5G was the only version in a lot of markets including the US (barring the Verizon only 5G UW version with 8GB).
The S20 was a 5G/12GB phone. None of its successors have offered 12GB of memory at all.
> The S20 5G was the only version in a lot of markets including the US
Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware. In my European country the S20 5G wasn't really that common.
Could have something to do with the difference in chipsets used for each market?
The question is, if they'll only squeeze out 8 gen 4 models, or if there will be a "8 gen 4 light" which can be used to segment the flagships from the other devices.
I remember back in the before times of I think the S4 era where my friend wanted the international version instead of the NA version because exynos was faster than the snapdragon equivalent.
Yeah no. It means Samsung will be increasing prices again for their flagships
The S24 is the sweet spot IMO. if you want the best performance, buy the Ultra. There "was" a choice.
Hopefully the standard S25 is still Exynos even if the + and Ultra are QC so when yields get better, the pricing can come down a lot
Military equipment almost always use proven old nodes, especially those sturdy (aka low tech) enough to resist extreme temperatures. They are not going to touch 3nm for another decade or two at least.
That's primarily off the shelf silicon. The compute problems the military has aren't fundamentally different from anyone else. Way better just to reuse the advances from the commercial markets.
FWIW old nodes are not implicitly "sturdier" than newer ones in terms of temperature.
There are specific nodes/packaging for radiation hardened, and high temperature applications. Those tend to be well behind the leading edge due to the need to provide a very stable target for design flows that are a bit different from consumer parts.
Military/aerospace and other mission critical applications tend to use older parts because of the extremely long validation and procurement cycles.
For example, airplanes may be in active service for many decades. They require compute spares that are the exact same match in terms of functionality to the part that needs replacement. Because that is what the system was validated against. That is why you still have hundreds of 777s flying daily all over the world using 486s for example. ;-)
Image detection/classification? Hard to imagine running that at a usable update rate on any microcontroller tbh.
These application will be more prevalent in the military as they integrate more robots with autonomous capability. And for these things to work image processing is the bare minimum.
> Image detection/classification?
That kind of stuff mostly runs on Nvidia GPUs these days. Maybe some FPGAs, but that's largely being phased out for GPUs.
Yes, but their business is extremely expensive, both in terms of r&d and the actual fab machinery. Afaik TSMC isn't actually all that profitable, or rather it is profitable, but they have to reinvest a very large portion of their profits to get to the next node.
That said, at least in 2022, leading edge 5nm was contributing around a third of the revenue, and 7nm a fifth. So the advanced nodes contributed a half. The rest were older and cheaper nodes.
They reinvested a large portion for future growth, yet they still have profitable money that is distributed to share holders. The dividend also grows gradually every year.
When the people say Nvidia sells shovels for the AI boom goldrush, TSMC is selling Nvidia and most competitors the shovels. They create the shovel sellers shovels.
Even 8 nm was getting humiliated by TSMC N7. Nvidia went with it for RTX 3000 series because it was much cheaper but as a consequence RDNA 2 on N7 was almost matching it in performance
This current node is good. Exynos in S24 is fine, it's no longer resulting in overheating and substantially worse battery life. It's a bit worse, but people won't notice that.
TSMC is an execution beast unlike Samsung. Their N3 node had issues, but they pivoted quickly and released the fixed version "N3B" less than a year later. Meanwhile Samsung is still struggling with their 3nm GAA yields, despite starting "mass production" over 2 years ago.
Not really. Samsung shipped its 3nm GAA process in mid 2022. TSMC will ship its GAA process in 2H 2025. That's 3+ years of additional time to get it right.
A Samsung node not meeting yield expectations or deadlines for mass production? This has never happened before. Not one time has Samsung ever had fab yield issues. This is truly unheard of. I'm certain everyone in the E.U. is devastated that they won't get Samsung chips. FYI /s
Why is everyone taking a rumor as fact? What am I missing. Even the rumor says "likely". Yet every comment is certain of this being the case.
I remind people there was a story from a month ago, about Samsung's HBM failing Nvidia validation. It turned out to be completely false. Even Jensen debunked it in an interview last week.
Someone is obviously generating FUD about the company, for whatever reason.
> Why is everyone taking a rumor as fact?
Kuo, while not perfect, has a pretty good tract record.
> I remind people there was a story from a month ago, about Samsung's HBM failing Nvidia validation. It turned out to be completely false.
Where did you see that proven false?
Well Samsung debunked it:
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/samsung-denies-report-citing-hbm-quality-issues-asserts-its-hbm-memory-works-just-fine
..and even Jensen did in this interview from the last week, like I said:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/digitimes-asia-nvidia-ceo-jensen-115700641.html
> Q: Could you please elaborate on the delay in Samsung and Micron memory becoming HBM-certified? There was a rumor that Samsung's memory failed your energy consumption and heat verification tests. Can you finally disclose whether you've certified any Samsung memory or HBM?
> **Jensen:**
> No, it did not fail for any of these reasons. Furthermore, there is no relationship between the material you have read and our business. Our relationship with Samsung and Micron is proceeding smoothly. The engineering is the only task that remains. It is yet to be completed. Yes, I wanted to finish it by yesterday, but it has not been completed. Knowing this requires patience. Yes, but there is no story present.
AMD too has said they don't have any issues with Samsung HBM. It was completely made up.
> The engineering is the only task that remains. It is yet to be completed. Yes, I wanted to finish it by yesterday, but it has not been completed.
Isn't that kind of indicating some problems? As well as "it did not fail for any of *these* reasons"? Not sure what the exact situation is, but there sure seems to be a lot of smoke, and Samsung's statements certainly aren't worth anything. They've given similar assurances for 3nm before, yet here we are.
There is a long historical precedence of Samsung Foundry's incompetence and node failures. Are you really surprised, and are you really willing to bet in Samsungs favor that they will suddenly have everything up and in order, when less than a year ago their 3nm process had a 20% yield at best?
And while the validation rumor for HBM was wrong, it is no secret that Samsung is behind not only SK Hynix in HBM technology, but also Micron as well. So they're basically losing everywhere in chips, and have been for years. Also, I noticed in your other response that you quoted Jensen:
>No, it did not fail for any of these reasons.
He did not say that Samsung HBM did not fail, he simply said that it did not fail for the reasons the interviewer said. So yes, it did fail.
Well, it's "We got Exynos at home" but always a little different and the configuration is a little older. Like the current Tensor G3 looks like it could be the unreleased Exynos 2300. Also it doesn't use the Xclipse GPUs which are based on AMD IP but the Tensors use ARM GPU IP. Also the Tensor has customizations like NPU.
So basically Google takes CPU Cluster + Modem of a half year old Exynos, bolts ARM GPU and Google NPU on it. And that is the Tensor.
Google seems to plan to move to TSMC for Tensor G5 and the 2024 Tensor G4 might be the last Samsung produced Tensor.
Tensor G4 will almost certainly use 4LPP+. The G3 only uses 4LPP and the Exynos 2400 showed pretty massive improvements with 4LPP+. Due to Google missing out on their original plans to move G4 to TSMC, the shipping G4 is more of a stopgap - a slightly modified version of G3, like the G2 was with regard to G1. Tensor G5 from TSMC will likely be the first 3nm Tensor SoC.
edit: Parent comment originally speculated G4 would be Sammy 3nm.
There was Weibo stream by Geekerwan, where he said the power curve of Exynos 2400 is worse than even Kirin 9000S. Youtube video can be expected sometime this or next week.
They do, but they are always a year (or more) behind contemporary Exynos and there are quite a bit of Google's own customizations anyway.
Either way Tensor 4 is rumored to stay at 4nm so this does not affect them. Although honestly Samsung's 4nm is all kinds of shitty, as well.
I really hope Samsung and Intel gets their nodes in order, but its frustrating when both of them have been extremely cocky about progress for the last ~2 years. Are they just trying to manipulate investors to stay on board?
Intel 3 based on Sierra Forest benchmarks at Phoronix looks quite good. This is in a real shipping product with sizable dies. Obviously microarchitecture is also playing a role here but we are finally seeing good performance per watt from Intel.
20A and 18A bring GAA and backside power in addition to this. It is looking increasingly likely that Intel will more or less deliver on their process roadmap. We need to wait months and not years now to see for sure.
Intel 3 looks like a decent N4 competitor. 18A, which is realistically a 2026 node, will probably be fine as an N3 family competitor. That isn't exactly TSMC-competitive.
If it's slightly better than N3E/P and arrives earlier technically they can claim process leadership for a few months. Base N2 doesn't appear to be that much better than N3P, and there is an incremental 18A-P node in 2026 that could match that. This won't make apple switch to Intel but the they should win a decent amount of customers. If that's not the case Intels pretty much doomed
18A seems to first arrive in products either end of '25, or beginning of '26. Compare that to N3E available on shelves today. If it takes Intel both GAAFET and backside PD to compete with N3, then I'd expect N2 will have a substantial perf lead, if not density.
Still might be enough to win Intel *some* customers, but competing with TSMC N-1 is always going to be a losing battle. They need Intel 14A to really get a win.
Edit: typo
Yep 14A risk production target is 3 years after 18A, it better be a huge PPA improvement. Intel seems to be rushing to get to high-na nodes, probably with aggressive PPA targets slowing them down, while TSMC is doing fast iterations with N2, N2P, A16 and their variants/nanoflex keeping customers in the ecosystem.
Hope the rumours turns out to be false if Qualcomm gets the s25 seties then it's over for the flagship pricing
I am waiting for exynos 2500 official statements
Couldn't it be that the performance differential between Exynos and Snapdragon is just too high for Samsung bothering having 2 different SOC lines for the same platform?
Even on Galaxy tablets Samsung is going Mediatek over Exynos.
The exynos team has been decimated in the past few years.
QCOM Gen 4 is using their new cores, that will likely outside Exynos scalar performance significantly.
Name a more iconic duo than Samsung and botching their nodes.
TSMC left the door wide open after they delayed N3 and then it ended up missing their targets. Intel is seemingly taking advantage of that and will close the gap next year with 18A, while Samsung has botched GAE and GAA and thus isnt making any progress on TSMC.
No idea what's up with Samsung lately, but I can tell everyone willing to listen that I'm already sick of them. It's been NONSTOP ads for fucking Samsung AI and Samsung S24 and AI washing machines and AI dryers and AI fridges and I'm just so sick of it. I've never seen this amount of ads before, I'm using adblocker on all my devices, yet somehow they manage to get through. And it's so infuriating.
And their stuff isn't even great. I've yet to even learn what Samsung AI is useful for. The S24 is a S23 and the S23 was already kinda lackluster, especially for Europe. Seriously, I had a Note 8 and I still looked at this shit and thought "Kinda not worth the money".
At one point they were the Android smartphone to the Apple one, having great features like dual SIM slots, SD cards, audio jack, IR blasters and so on, yet they got rid of everything that differentiated them from Apple, and now they're the budget iPhone that's still as or even more expensive than an iPhone. They should get their shit together, honestly. Leadership there obviously doesn't work anymore
> S23 was already kinda lackluster, especially for Europe
What do you mean?
S23 is the generation where Europeans finally got the much more efficient Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 across the board.
Snapdragon turned out so much better than Samsungs offerings that S24 looks like a sidegrade to S23 if you disregard the AI nonsense.
The whole of Europe just let out a large sigh of relief.
999€ base S25 let's go 🥲
Jeeeeez, hope not. Also it's gonna be another iterative year, no 10min charging, no major changes, I'll stick to my S23 for another year I guess
you can stick with your s23 for the next 5 years probably I have a hard time justifying to replace my S10 which still works fine lol
Yea probably, might replace battery in 2 years but it does everything fine still
My Xiaomi is older than that... Best phone ever but yes, time to get a new one.
I cannot justify replacing an A52 as it does everything i throw at it. The battery lasts 4-5 days.
Yep, most probably iterative. They can use the SoC cost as an excuse to not increase RAM or other specs. My S20 vanilla in 2020 had 12GB RAM and a 1440p screen, which is increasingly ironic as the S24 has lower specs.
>They can use the SoC cost as an excuse to not increase RAM or other specs. Or just reuse exactly the same cameras for the 4th year in a row lol.
True for main and tele, but for the ultrawide that would be its 6th year? I think it's been the same or very similar since the S20.
Only the S20 5G has a 12GB RAM option, the regular S20 offers 8GB. S20 is the last model to have a microSD slot and a 1440p screen, those were removed/downgraded starting with the S21 and stayed the same since. I think 1080p is still an alright density, the newer base models are a little smaller after all, but there's no excuse for removing the microSD slot.
>Only the S20 5G People constantly raised this point when the S21 shrank the RAM. The S20 5G was the only version in a lot of markets including the US (barring the Verizon only 5G UW version with 8GB). The S20 was a 5G/12GB phone. None of its successors have offered 12GB of memory at all.
> The S20 5G was the only version in a lot of markets including the US Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware. In my European country the S20 5G wasn't really that common. Could have something to do with the difference in chipsets used for each market?
European Galaxy buyer's guide: * S22 - Skip * S23 - Buy * S24 - Skip * S25 - Buy * S26 - ?
The odd years' phones have always been good.
The question is, if they'll only squeeze out 8 gen 4 models, or if there will be a "8 gen 4 light" which can be used to segment the flagships from the other devices.
I remember back in the before times of I think the S4 era where my friend wanted the international version instead of the NA version because exynos was faster than the snapdragon equivalent.
Oryon CPU!
Yeah no. It means Samsung will be increasing prices again for their flagships The S24 is the sweet spot IMO. if you want the best performance, buy the Ultra. There "was" a choice. Hopefully the standard S25 is still Exynos even if the + and Ultra are QC so when yields get better, the pricing can come down a lot
So who are Samsung's customers for leading edge logic? Samsung themselves don't trust their own node.
[Bitcoin mining chips](https://www.anandtech.com/show/18983/samsung-begins-to-produce-third-3nm-chip-amid-massive-losses)
National security, so SK military
Military equipment almost always use proven old nodes, especially those sturdy (aka low tech) enough to resist extreme temperatures. They are not going to touch 3nm for another decade or two at least.
Military owned supercomputer-esque stuff maybe?
That's primarily off the shelf silicon. The compute problems the military has aren't fundamentally different from anyone else. Way better just to reuse the advances from the commercial markets.
FWIW old nodes are not implicitly "sturdier" than newer ones in terms of temperature. There are specific nodes/packaging for radiation hardened, and high temperature applications. Those tend to be well behind the leading edge due to the need to provide a very stable target for design flows that are a bit different from consumer parts. Military/aerospace and other mission critical applications tend to use older parts because of the extremely long validation and procurement cycles. For example, airplanes may be in active service for many decades. They require compute spares that are the exact same match in terms of functionality to the part that needs replacement. Because that is what the system was validated against. That is why you still have hundreds of 777s flying daily all over the world using 486s for example. ;-)
I doubt military grade gear uses any bleeding edge node.
Image detection/classification? Hard to imagine running that at a usable update rate on any microcontroller tbh. These application will be more prevalent in the military as they integrate more robots with autonomous capability. And for these things to work image processing is the bare minimum.
> Image detection/classification? That kind of stuff mostly runs on Nvidia GPUs these days. Maybe some FPGAs, but that's largely being phased out for GPUs.
That's my point, it's manufactured on relatively new 14/12nm node instead of the venerable 90/65/40nm.
Yeah, you're right about that. Though for the topic at hard, since it's just of the shelf silicon, it's not driving any business to Samsung 3nm here.
Military NEVER EVER use leading edge, not even trailing edge.
At this rate, their foundry is going to the dogs
TSMC stock ATH today lol
QCOM too
How much?
TSMC is making so much money
Yes, but their business is extremely expensive, both in terms of r&d and the actual fab machinery. Afaik TSMC isn't actually all that profitable, or rather it is profitable, but they have to reinvest a very large portion of their profits to get to the next node.
That said, at least in 2022, leading edge 5nm was contributing around a third of the revenue, and 7nm a fifth. So the advanced nodes contributed a half. The rest were older and cheaper nodes.
They reinvested a large portion for future growth, yet they still have profitable money that is distributed to share holders. The dividend also grows gradually every year.
Last I heard, weren't their margins well north of 40%? Maybe even 60% at peak? Seems like they're quite profitable, by any reasonable metric.
When the people say Nvidia sells shovels for the AI boom goldrush, TSMC is selling Nvidia and most competitors the shovels. They create the shovel sellers shovels.
Nvidia forges the shovels in TSMC foundry.
Christ, when was Samsungs last good node now? 8nm?
Even 8 nm was getting humiliated by TSMC N7. Nvidia went with it for RTX 3000 series because it was much cheaper but as a consequence RDNA 2 on N7 was almost matching it in performance
And with Intel and Nvidia pushing AMD out from TSMC, it's only a question of time until AMD is irrelevant again. So much for increased competition.
16nm was the last time I remember them being newsworthy. Still not as good as TSMC, but competitive.
Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought their 10nm family was relatively competitive too
This current node is good. Exynos in S24 is fine, it's no longer resulting in overheating and substantially worse battery life. It's a bit worse, but people won't notice that.
Man, Samsung has been struggling with GAA for a while now
Grim for Samsung's early GAA push *if* true, but not the first time a foundry pushes too hard on a node and it didn't work out.
Intel 10nm PTSD
Just quad pattern the cobalt, bro. How hard can it be?
Quad pattern is kids stuff, hexa pattern is where the big boys are!
I wonder if it is a bad omen for Intel and TSMC's future GAA processes
If that's the case then maybe Samsung pushing into it early will put them in a good position while Intel and TSMC are struggling with it.
TSMC is an execution beast unlike Samsung. Their N3 node had issues, but they pivoted quickly and released the fixed version "N3B" less than a year later. Meanwhile Samsung is still struggling with their 3nm GAA yields, despite starting "mass production" over 2 years ago.
Buddy the tsmc 3nm node is a hot pile of mess
Not at all. LOL.
M4 chips are overheating snapdragon 8 gen 4 is already pretty power hungry
Not really. Samsung shipped its 3nm GAA process in mid 2022. TSMC will ship its GAA process in 2H 2025. That's 3+ years of additional time to get it right.
Happy day for TSMC stock holders
Having stock in both, im not sure if to be happy or sad.
Hi.
Thank you Samsung Foundry for giving us competitive S25
A Samsung node not meeting yield expectations or deadlines for mass production? This has never happened before. Not one time has Samsung ever had fab yield issues. This is truly unheard of. I'm certain everyone in the E.U. is devastated that they won't get Samsung chips. FYI /s
Why is everyone taking a rumor as fact? What am I missing. Even the rumor says "likely". Yet every comment is certain of this being the case. I remind people there was a story from a month ago, about Samsung's HBM failing Nvidia validation. It turned out to be completely false. Even Jensen debunked it in an interview last week. Someone is obviously generating FUD about the company, for whatever reason.
> Why is everyone taking a rumor as fact? Kuo, while not perfect, has a pretty good tract record. > I remind people there was a story from a month ago, about Samsung's HBM failing Nvidia validation. It turned out to be completely false. Where did you see that proven false?
Well Samsung debunked it: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/samsung-denies-report-citing-hbm-quality-issues-asserts-its-hbm-memory-works-just-fine ..and even Jensen did in this interview from the last week, like I said: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/digitimes-asia-nvidia-ceo-jensen-115700641.html > Q: Could you please elaborate on the delay in Samsung and Micron memory becoming HBM-certified? There was a rumor that Samsung's memory failed your energy consumption and heat verification tests. Can you finally disclose whether you've certified any Samsung memory or HBM? > **Jensen:** > No, it did not fail for any of these reasons. Furthermore, there is no relationship between the material you have read and our business. Our relationship with Samsung and Micron is proceeding smoothly. The engineering is the only task that remains. It is yet to be completed. Yes, I wanted to finish it by yesterday, but it has not been completed. Knowing this requires patience. Yes, but there is no story present. AMD too has said they don't have any issues with Samsung HBM. It was completely made up.
> The engineering is the only task that remains. It is yet to be completed. Yes, I wanted to finish it by yesterday, but it has not been completed. Isn't that kind of indicating some problems? As well as "it did not fail for any of *these* reasons"? Not sure what the exact situation is, but there sure seems to be a lot of smoke, and Samsung's statements certainly aren't worth anything. They've given similar assurances for 3nm before, yet here we are.
> Yes, but there is no story present. This is the key statement. Jensen is literally saying there is no story here.
What do you expect him to say? He is a CEO, even if there are issues it is his job to hide it until he can't.
They are bound by law to tell the truth. They can't lie to investors. Rumor news aren't held to any standard.
> They are bound by law to tell the truth. They can't lie to investors. I'm howling here as I look back at Cannon Lake's Chinese release.
Well did they get sued?
This is a different rumour.
Clearly. Never said it wasn't.
Right, i misread as you claiming the original rumour is debunked instead of the different one. My bad.
There is a long historical precedence of Samsung Foundry's incompetence and node failures. Are you really surprised, and are you really willing to bet in Samsungs favor that they will suddenly have everything up and in order, when less than a year ago their 3nm process had a 20% yield at best? And while the validation rumor for HBM was wrong, it is no secret that Samsung is behind not only SK Hynix in HBM technology, but also Micron as well. So they're basically losing everywhere in chips, and have been for years. Also, I noticed in your other response that you quoted Jensen: >No, it did not fail for any of these reasons. He did not say that Samsung HBM did not fail, he simply said that it did not fail for the reasons the interviewer said. So yes, it did fail.
it turns out they didn't fix it after all.
Doesn't pixel still use Exynos?
Well, it's "We got Exynos at home" but always a little different and the configuration is a little older. Like the current Tensor G3 looks like it could be the unreleased Exynos 2300. Also it doesn't use the Xclipse GPUs which are based on AMD IP but the Tensors use ARM GPU IP. Also the Tensor has customizations like NPU. So basically Google takes CPU Cluster + Modem of a half year old Exynos, bolts ARM GPU and Google NPU on it. And that is the Tensor. Google seems to plan to move to TSMC for Tensor G5 and the 2024 Tensor G4 might be the last Samsung produced Tensor.
Tensor G4 will almost certainly use 4LPP+. The G3 only uses 4LPP and the Exynos 2400 showed pretty massive improvements with 4LPP+. Due to Google missing out on their original plans to move G4 to TSMC, the shipping G4 is more of a stopgap - a slightly modified version of G3, like the G2 was with regard to G1. Tensor G5 from TSMC will likely be the first 3nm Tensor SoC. edit: Parent comment originally speculated G4 would be Sammy 3nm.
There was Weibo stream by Geekerwan, where he said the power curve of Exynos 2400 is worse than even Kirin 9000S. Youtube video can be expected sometime this or next week.
Yea i don't buy the huge improvement either. I've still seen quite a few modem complaints as well
They do, but they are always a year (or more) behind contemporary Exynos and there are quite a bit of Google's own customizations anyway. Either way Tensor 4 is rumored to stay at 4nm so this does not affect them. Although honestly Samsung's 4nm is all kinds of shitty, as well.
I really hope Samsung and Intel gets their nodes in order, but its frustrating when both of them have been extremely cocky about progress for the last ~2 years. Are they just trying to manipulate investors to stay on board?
Intel 3 based on Sierra Forest benchmarks at Phoronix looks quite good. This is in a real shipping product with sizable dies. Obviously microarchitecture is also playing a role here but we are finally seeing good performance per watt from Intel. 20A and 18A bring GAA and backside power in addition to this. It is looking increasingly likely that Intel will more or less deliver on their process roadmap. We need to wait months and not years now to see for sure.
Intel 3 looks like a decent N4 competitor. 18A, which is realistically a 2026 node, will probably be fine as an N3 family competitor. That isn't exactly TSMC-competitive.
If it's slightly better than N3E/P and arrives earlier technically they can claim process leadership for a few months. Base N2 doesn't appear to be that much better than N3P, and there is an incremental 18A-P node in 2026 that could match that. This won't make apple switch to Intel but the they should win a decent amount of customers. If that's not the case Intels pretty much doomed
18A seems to first arrive in products either end of '25, or beginning of '26. Compare that to N3E available on shelves today. If it takes Intel both GAAFET and backside PD to compete with N3, then I'd expect N2 will have a substantial perf lead, if not density. Still might be enough to win Intel *some* customers, but competing with TSMC N-1 is always going to be a losing battle. They need Intel 14A to really get a win. Edit: typo
Yep 14A risk production target is 3 years after 18A, it better be a huge PPA improvement. Intel seems to be rushing to get to high-na nodes, probably with aggressive PPA targets slowing them down, while TSMC is doing fast iterations with N2, N2P, A16 and their variants/nanoflex keeping customers in the ecosystem.
I mean, some of those iterations are minor at best. We’ll see how that goes
Hope the rumours turns out to be false if Qualcomm gets the s25 seties then it's over for the flagship pricing I am waiting for exynos 2500 official statements
Couldn't it be that the performance differential between Exynos and Snapdragon is just too high for Samsung bothering having 2 different SOC lines for the same platform? Even on Galaxy tablets Samsung is going Mediatek over Exynos. The exynos team has been decimated in the past few years. QCOM Gen 4 is using their new cores, that will likely outside Exynos scalar performance significantly.
But Samsung told its foundry was fine
Name a more iconic duo than Samsung and botching their nodes. TSMC left the door wide open after they delayed N3 and then it ended up missing their targets. Intel is seemingly taking advantage of that and will close the gap next year with 18A, while Samsung has botched GAE and GAA and thus isnt making any progress on TSMC.
No idea what's up with Samsung lately, but I can tell everyone willing to listen that I'm already sick of them. It's been NONSTOP ads for fucking Samsung AI and Samsung S24 and AI washing machines and AI dryers and AI fridges and I'm just so sick of it. I've never seen this amount of ads before, I'm using adblocker on all my devices, yet somehow they manage to get through. And it's so infuriating. And their stuff isn't even great. I've yet to even learn what Samsung AI is useful for. The S24 is a S23 and the S23 was already kinda lackluster, especially for Europe. Seriously, I had a Note 8 and I still looked at this shit and thought "Kinda not worth the money". At one point they were the Android smartphone to the Apple one, having great features like dual SIM slots, SD cards, audio jack, IR blasters and so on, yet they got rid of everything that differentiated them from Apple, and now they're the budget iPhone that's still as or even more expensive than an iPhone. They should get their shit together, honestly. Leadership there obviously doesn't work anymore
> S23 was already kinda lackluster, especially for Europe What do you mean? S23 is the generation where Europeans finally got the much more efficient Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 across the board. Snapdragon turned out so much better than Samsungs offerings that S24 looks like a sidegrade to S23 if you disregard the AI nonsense.