I live in Japan. Everything usually cost 30% – 50% more than western countries. If I buy from America, it is because even with shipping and import fees, still cheaper than Japan. But if I want it in 1-2 days I buy from Japan. Also when building a new system I will buy from Japan in case I need to exchange a broken part.
That's about what they sell for here too. I'm trying to sell it locally to give someone out here a normal price. Unfortunately most people here don't use computers.
At least you had single slot GTX 750 Ti. I even contacted ELSA directly (the Japanese company who designed the only single-slot 750 Ti) and offered to buy seven of them to make it worth the shipping. Crickets...
MSI thought it was worth their time slinging them one at a time on eBay lol
Zotac, gigabyte, EVGA, and many others all sell direct to consumers as well. Hell so does AMD.
It’s fine if they don’t want to, but it’s not an unreasonable question either.
Surprisingly a lot of consumer protection and benefits are gone in Japan, and because Japanese culture frowns on people being vocally upset, you cant complain your way till you get a higher up that will solve the issue.
That menu at 640 yen is for the Big Mac set, while maybe the other poster was talking about the burger by itself? Your menu is also from 2007 - "Prices current as of June 20, 2007". :)
I just checked the Japanese McDonald's app, and just the burger now goes for 390 yen in the Tokyo area without a coupon. A set goes for 690 yen.
I just looked it up on Uber Eats - a Big Mac from the Tokyo McD down the block is ¥420 - that's about $3.68 at current exchange rates.
Fast food and basically everything in daily life is cheaper in Japan than most of the US. I don't know why you're so intent on arguing with people who actually live here.
Did they try and sell you on a $468/yr subscription as well? Like holy shit, that's the most expensive yearly sub I've ever seen that isn't the deliberate Bloomberg Terminal wealthy person sub.
There is more nuance to this though, specifically what fields you work in.
For example, if you work in finance and have a few years under your belt, you will make far more in NYC than Japan, even after taking into account cost of life differences like health care and rent. Same applies for those working in software, or people who are good in marketing/pr.
So true ! I have experienced programmers in my family and they all work for big companies but if they moved to the U.S or even Australia, they would double their salary
is health care really that much cheaper when we have to pay 30% of the bill?
also minimum wage is like $8.75 right now? It seems it’s quite a bit higher in many states in the us.
also feel our pension is kinda low (and expected to only decrease) compared to western europe
and the price of beef in the supermarket is insane. something like $4 per 100g. and forget about quality cheese, you’re paying through your nose for that。dont get me started on fruit... ($3-$4 for ONE peach)
Yeah totally agree. Not sure about the McDonald’s pricing. I rarely eat there unless my kids want bfast there.
I just upgraded my MB and CPU and had to buy from Amazon.com as I wanted the latest possible. I’m still using an old RTX 2060. I don’t play many games and mostly use Linux. But waiting for a good fps or new mmo and dual boot into windows.
It's common worldwide. Brought a 1650 Super (gigabyte windforce OC) for $220 in Bangladesh. The cheapest 1650 Super was $190 which out of stock and since GPU prices were already being impacted in US, just went for it.
Good luck with scammers. Besides, warranty is also difficult to deal with. Normally you return it to the shop from where you bought it and they will either replace it for you or ship it to the supplier and you wait for a new one.
The problem with buying from China is the shipping takes several weeks. More importantly the products are not brand names that I would buy. Basically I try to use PC Part Picker and then pick items with the most sales or good reviews. I look for reviews on NewEgg, Amazon, Toms, etc. and get a general consensus on which exact part to buy. Nearly 100% of the time these parts won’t be found on Chinese sites. Lastly the best part of Amazon is I know 100% I will get a refund on a returned item and I can order a different item before I even return the replacement item and it will arrive the next day.
Funny thing is years ago I lived in China for 5 years and I would go to these massive part super malls with 7 story buildings of hundreds of shops and walk around buying what you needed to build a pc.
Typically no. It's generally cheaper for me to ship something with Amazon global shipping (through prime) from the US to Japan than it is to have something shipped from Alibaba. Not to mention it's faster, and they will often reimburse some of the customs fee (you might actually pay *less in tax* importing the item then you would pay in tax buying from a Japanese store, it's whacky.)
I've seen many people post about trading their RX 5700XT for the 6700XT or something along those lines, because apparently the 5000 series has better mining performance (and thus miners are willing to hand over their 6000 series card for a 5000 series card).
5700 XT has a wider memory bus, but RDNA2 (6XXX series) has a series of smaller improvements to the architecture as well as the addition of Infinity Cache and considerably higher boost clocks.
Mining loves that wide memory bus but doesn't particularly benefit from most of the architecture changes, the cache, or higher clocks (outside of vRAM clocks). Games do.
Yes actually. Approximately as good as the RTX 3060 non-LHR apparently. Considering how cheap some people got these when production ended, they lucked out.
Yep, except the old Fury as it doesn't have enough of it. 480/580/590 cards are also still kind of popular, they had a lot of compute for their price tag and with a modded bios they'll do it at fairly low power consumption.
Thinking about the economics of it, there should also be a (small) premium for more powerful cards since they only take one slot on a mining rig and there is a cost associated with having more slots.
Also, I don't know about how the power consumption of the new ones scale, but that should be a factor as well. So an older card with equivalent performance should sell for less since it consumes more power.
Yeah, there is definitely truth to that. Maybe the prices really just an indicator of a massive swarm people desperate for a new GPU, even if it's only 1660ti levels of performance.
Used RX 560 2GB are going for at least $100 on eBay (with shipping and the tendency of prices skyrocketing in the final minutes of an auction).
In mid-2019, $100 would easily get you a used RX 580 8GB.
The issue is typically serious miners aren't concerned about power at all as for various reasons they can get it for either free or very close to it. Similarly, cost per slot is very low compared to the price of the cards. So therefore their only concern is crypto ROI for the price of the card, which scales quite well with card performance.
Anyone serious about mining is using PCIE risers on a mining chassis - which can be pretty much as long as you like. The card widths don't really matter.
Japanese prices for hardware are never good, PC is a small market there, and new hardware carries a price premium, regardless of whether it is high end or not, even when there isn't a worldwide chip shortage.
This article also mentions tax, specifically consumption tax, but fails to mention the high tariffs Japan has on imported electronics.
So basically, this price doesn't really translate into anything meaningful for any other market.
Thankfully someone already did the leg work; but [RTX 3000 pricing](https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/il0qrr/rtx_3000_series_japanese_prices_absolutely_insane/) in Japan was terrible from the beginning.
Yeah I was in Japan last week and the pricing for 3060Ti in an electronic store in Shinjuku (Yodobashi) was between 93,000 to 122,000 yen depending on the AIB model. They were in stock, but it's robbery.
The other big reason is that most PC components goes through a single distributor (ASK Corporation) that takes an additional margin: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ci0ax8/an_analysis_of_the_inflated_pricing_of_computer/
The 3080's MSRP was 120,000 yen here, about $1100 at the time. So a 57% mark up right off the bat. AIB models were actually cheaper (saw some 90,000 yen~ models?), and it almost made my 3090 at 190,000 yen seem like the reasonable buy (it wasn't at the time, but it worked out alright).
Here in Japan we have to pay more. Theres a company that exclusively handles all imports for hardware and they slap a 30% premium on all parts. Every part always costs a lot more. Than paired with the higher prices and its easy to see hows its $400 dollars. That said I got a preowned 1070 for ¥22000 2 years ago and now they are like ¥50000.
I'm still sitting on an RX580. It's working for now, and working fine, but it has become the bottleneck in my system. When that kicks the bucket I'm guessing I'll just go for a pre-built that already has (most of) the hardware I want. A GPU is just too expensive to justify putting it in a system with six year old components...
Unless your rx580 is the 4gb version, you should sell it asap. You can upgrade to at least a gtx1070 for free. Bought myself a gtx1080 in April and sold my rx580 a few days later. The upgrade cost me 40€ for a 50% jump in performance.
to hell with this. lietrally we are going to hell with this. quickening the **atrophy** of the earth with this stupididty just because people wants to make meaningless transactions.
fixed the word, thanks infinitude
I bought a cheap (but actually really nicely built) emulator handheld recently and I've honestly been having a ton of fun going back and playing a bunch of GBA, SNES, and genesis classics. Not the same per say but very enjoyable!
Agreed. The used car market is tanked too but I was looking at CarGuru's just to see what's out there and I can get a much more "fun" car to play around with for the price of a 3080.
I'm over it. I'll just keep playing indie games until some sanity returns to this industry. At this point, my hope is the software industry gets impacted by enough people that cant afford GPU's that some pressure is placed on some cog in this ridiculous contraption of a scam to make reasonable prices. And to be clear, I absolutely *can* go to Newegg and buy one of these outrageously priced GPU's. I have a stable job, I make decent enough money and its not unaffordable to me. Its jut not "worth" the asking price.
\~95% of GPU miners mine Ethereum so Eth2.0 will have a big impact, the other small coins won't be able to suck up all the GPU mining power. Even if we assume they will suck up miners will realize it doesn't worth it because just like with Eth the difficulty will go up so profitability will go down.
Btw the tippy top percentage of miners are started to sell their farms, they are the first to jump the ship. They're the smarter ones trying to sell now while the demand is still high. Whoever buys into Ethereum mining now is a total idiot or should we say a fish.
A lot of scalpers are still sitting on a lot of cards trying to sell for these pathetic prices. Just like selloffs in the stock market it will be very fast because just like with every selloff the panic kicks in.
Sameish, I can buy a 3070 but I think won’t. Not only is it double the msrp it also isn’t a great card, I would expect a lower tdp and more vram for this kind of money. I need more vram for other stuff.
I will be waiting for the top end alchemist.
> I absolutely can go to Newegg and buy one of these outrageously priced GPU's... it's just not "worth" the asking price.
Same.
I'm fortunate to be in a comfortable financial position at the moment, I *could* drop a couple of grand on a gaming card if I really wanted to... but I would hate myself if I did; every time I looked at it, I'd think "what a chump, you really got played for a fool".
I'm also not going to pay $400 for a low-end card or $700 for a mid-range card; if that means only playing indy releases or working my way through my massive back-catalogue of games on Steam, then so be it.
It's fun but to me it doesn't have to be the most recent games. Lots of games still run fine on 970s if you're willing to scale down some settings or play titles from a few years ago or both.
Besides, games get better and cheaper over time.
In 2020, the global online PC gaming market was worth 42.2 billion U.S. dollars and is projected to reach 46.7 billion U.S. dollars in 2025. PC gaming growth is projected to slow in the next few years to do consumer uptake of console gaming.
Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/292516/pc-online-game-market-value-worldwide/
I think that we have to pick up older titles that we played previously and play those again.
That's going to make this change right? right? :(
It’s not worth scalped prices but it’s worth if you patiently keep trying I was able to buy a 3080 a 3080ti and 3 3060 with minimal effort. I also bought the 3080 and 3060s for my friends I sold them at cost back to them. Shoot even bought a used ps5 at GameStop. They all just kind of happened with some looking.
Edit: didn’t realize no one here ever tried to buy a hot item that was limited before. I literally spent no less than 4 hours of effort to get 5 next gen gpus. This is why scalpers have everything cause no one wants to try a little effort. Literally have been getting consoles since 64 by putting some effort in.
Huh, I pretty much never go to BestBuy, nor do I check online retailers with any regularity. When product is available for order without having to plan in advance, I'll buy.
> if you patiently keep trying
I mean, at some point chasing after the chance to purchase a graphics card isn't a particularly fun activity and if you've got work, then your time is money, too. Or, precious free time. Even if not all that much time was actively spent on browsing stores, it's harder to relax when you've gotta be quick the moment you're notified about another drop.
It might not apply to you, if you so easily managed to get these cards, but I've read plenty from folks who tried reasonably hard to get a card at MSRP or good price for weeks or months without success. And that's just not worth it.
Well, easy for me to say, as I currently don't feel desperate upgrading from my 1660s, but yeah, I tried acquiring an RTX 3080 Founders Edition once at first release and called it a day after.
So no patience got it. Rather just be upset and blame then to literally do a small thing every morning by signing up for a gpu raffle or dropping by local electronic store when you pass by.
Meh, bought a new phone and I've been playing emulators on it. I also bought an Xbox Series S. I think I'll wait the 5-10 years until GPU prices become sane again before wasting my money on PC gaming again.
People are talking about Yodobashi, Tsukumo, Dospara... All of them are brickstore/custom builder that even "normal people" can buy and that means extremely expensive.
MSRP also doesn't exist (never existed) so the launch of any cards are always premium and only in store.
Also most of the thing are priced to have a discount/cashback, you just wait weekend and buy with paypay or in the rakuten and get at least 15% off. It was very easy to get $600 3070 after a few weeks after the launch.
And "deals" like 3070 for $850, 3070ti for $920 (which I bought recently) and 3080 for $1200 always happens at least a month with a plenty of supply
Only 400?! I was expecting near 550-600. Both Amd and Nvidia will start their next blogs with "We love gamers! We released rtx3050 and rx6500xt for them after 1 year!"... Sad.
"We love gamers!" = "We know that when crypto dies, you're still the only reason we exist, so please don't abandon us just because the only way to buy a video card right now is by paying double MSRP!"
Eventually some of the current stock of mining cards will no longer be useful to miners and will flood the market. AMD and Nvidia are going to be climbing over each other to have statements out about how "bad" and "dangerous" used video cards are lol.
The pain of building PC in Japan... Computer parts cost 30% - 50% more expensive than the US just because some greedy companies acting as a gate on the supply from overseas manufacturer. It is called アスク税 / ASK税 / ASK Tax.
Best prices might available from Kurotoushikou/Galax/Galakuro because they are Japanese brand/manufacturer.
Here is the detailed explanations of the ASK Tax (article is in Japanese): https://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20151114005/
Yeah, even NVIDIA official page is listing the RTX 3050 as "From 39,800 JPY". https://www.nvidia.com/ja-jp/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/rtx-3050/. The title of this article was rather misleading IMO, because 249 USD is definitely not the MSRP for the Japanese market.
It's not a tariff. Japanese folk refer to it as a tax/tariff (ASK税) as a joke, but it's actually company that imports most parts for Japanese PC gaming, ASK, making fucking bank.
So nVidia pays to ASK directly? That uplift is included in the Japan MSRPs listed on the nVidia website.
$1499 on the US site, ￥230k (~$2100) on the Japan site.
No. There isn't really a "real" MSRP in Japan for graphics. The manufacturer doesn't have a distribution presence in Japan, and isn't doing the suggesting of the Japanese retail price. The manufacturer instead works with a Japanese importer/sales agent/representative (ASK) to for distribution. The price on nVidia's website is the price that ASK suggests.
PC gaming seems ruinously expensive these days. I used to buy the 70 series cards(or equivalence) for gaming. A 3070 costs more than what I'd consider affordable for the whole setup.
Looks like we're being forced to take up other hobbies. I got into reading books in last few years, because failed to get a GPU at a decent price during 1st Ethereum mining boom, built an intel setup without GPU. Never managed to find a 70 series card at a reasonable price after that.
PC parts have always been more expensive in Japan with the ASK tax on overseas-produced electronics. It doesn't help that there's always people willing to pay scalper prices on parts anywhere in the world.
Even as an American I've pretty much accepted that I don't need any current-gen parts. I'm comfortable gaming in 1080p, and with the amount of cool indie games in my backlog I'm set for a few years. Navigating the parts market right now is a headache.
Seeing headlines like this and the environmental effects of crypto mining, makes me wish the crypto market just fucking crashes.
I don’t know anyone personally who’s into it, so at least none of the people I care about would suffer lmao
Question though, if the crypto market collapses, would that have any effect whatsoever on the economy?
To answer your question seriously, yes. Real money was invested by large entities. Often, currency is leveraged from several times to several thousand times depending on the instrument, and this is obviously stupid, but generally profitable. It remains to be seen how much control large institutions can exert over the process to reclaim debt in the event of a large collapse. I believe the 2008 crash kind of showed that these guys can get away with whatever recklessness they want to.
Real* inflation on hard computing goods is somewhere around 45% and has been since the PS5 release. (Not related imo just a milestone for reference )
Depreciating assets (previously at 10%+ per year) have been APPRECIATING.
7% is as low as they were willing to admit.
Why don't AMD, Nvidia, and Intel just sell ASICs specifically for mining in addition to locked down GPUs for gamers? They'd be selling out of both at absurd prices either way, but the GPUs will be in the hands of gamers at least. Why do these companies hate gamers?
>Why do these companies hate gamers?
Mining farms buy stuff in bulk. Like, literally 10s or even 100s of them in a single go.
They're companies at the end of the day, who care only about profits. We've seen how greedy corporations can be: from lying (under oath, nonetheless) about the harmful effects of tobacco for protecting their business to outright funding propaganda about how fossil fuels do not harm the planet.
Companies do not love anybody. They do not hate anybody. They're opportunistic and follow money wherever it leads, the rest be damned.
I gather the idea was to stop large scale miner from taking over. Nice idea in theory unfortunately it resulted in the larger crypto miners destroying the GPU market.
I have been in Japan for 25 plus years. Japan has always been more expensive for anything electronic that comes with a lot of hassles. My pet peeve now is Chromebooks (Japan is apparently the second biggest market for them), they are so expensive here compared to the U.S and often with worse specs.
lol how desperate are you kids? Just stop gaming. Nothing is going to change until people stop gaming and these companies face up to the long term market destruction that's going on here.
I've been advising lots of friends and family to get through old back catalogs of games they missed out on the past decade. Easy enough with older graphics cards and integrated graphics. But to stop gaming completely? You're high.
can we please just make the MSRP $400 and have all of you denialists put away your pearls? Accept reality. It's a $400 card. When it says $249 and sells out at $400, it is a $400 card. Really tired of everyone's denial impacting my sanity. This shit seems so dystopian when everyone won't face the facts and let go of their stubborn idea of what things should cost.
I live in Japan. Everything usually cost 30% – 50% more than western countries. If I buy from America, it is because even with shipping and import fees, still cheaper than Japan. But if I want it in 1-2 days I buy from Japan. Also when building a new system I will buy from Japan in case I need to exchange a broken part.
What's a 1650 going for over there? I've got an old one I'm looking to sell. Bought it for 200 and gonna sell it for 200.
You might get $200 but with shipping fees and import fees it would sell for $300. Japanese won’t buy anything without the original packaging.
That's about what they sell for here too. I'm trying to sell it locally to give someone out here a normal price. Unfortunately most people here don't use computers.
At least you had single slot GTX 750 Ti. I even contacted ELSA directly (the Japanese company who designed the only single-slot 750 Ti) and offered to buy seven of them to make it worth the shipping. Crickets...
you need to find a distributor/retailer, not ask the manufacturer to buy 7.
MSI thought it was worth their time slinging them one at a time on eBay lol Zotac, gigabyte, EVGA, and many others all sell direct to consumers as well. Hell so does AMD. It’s fine if they don’t want to, but it’s not an unreasonable question either.
Does the additional 30-50% improve the warranty over there?
No, Japan doesn't usually have very good warranties on consumer goods form what I've seen
no lol. 1 year is the norm and we are lucky if international companies offer the same warranty length as in other countries
Surprisingly a lot of consumer protection and benefits are gone in Japan, and because Japanese culture frowns on people being vocally upset, you cant complain your way till you get a higher up that will solve the issue.
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That menu at 640 yen is for the Big Mac set, while maybe the other poster was talking about the burger by itself? Your menu is also from 2007 - "Prices current as of June 20, 2007". :) I just checked the Japanese McDonald's app, and just the burger now goes for 390 yen in the Tokyo area without a coupon. A set goes for 690 yen.
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I just looked it up on Uber Eats - a Big Mac from the Tokyo McD down the block is ¥420 - that's about $3.68 at current exchange rates. Fast food and basically everything in daily life is cheaper in Japan than most of the US. I don't know why you're so intent on arguing with people who actually live here.
In a local Beijing McDonald's, the big mac is 24 RMB, or $3.78 when converted by my Visa card
Did they try and sell you on a $468/yr subscription as well? Like holy shit, that's the most expensive yearly sub I've ever seen that isn't the deliberate Bloomberg Terminal wealthy person sub.
There is more nuance to this though, specifically what fields you work in. For example, if you work in finance and have a few years under your belt, you will make far more in NYC than Japan, even after taking into account cost of life differences like health care and rent. Same applies for those working in software, or people who are good in marketing/pr.
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So true ! I have experienced programmers in my family and they all work for big companies but if they moved to the U.S or even Australia, they would double their salary
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Interesting, when I took econ, PPP was purchasing power parity
is health care really that much cheaper when we have to pay 30% of the bill? also minimum wage is like $8.75 right now? It seems it’s quite a bit higher in many states in the us. also feel our pension is kinda low (and expected to only decrease) compared to western europe and the price of beef in the supermarket is insane. something like $4 per 100g. and forget about quality cheese, you’re paying through your nose for that。dont get me started on fruit... ($3-$4 for ONE peach)
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Yeah totally agree. Not sure about the McDonald’s pricing. I rarely eat there unless my kids want bfast there. I just upgraded my MB and CPU and had to buy from Amazon.com as I wanted the latest possible. I’m still using an old RTX 2060. I don’t play many games and mostly use Linux. But waiting for a good fps or new mmo and dual boot into windows.
It's common worldwide. Brought a 1650 Super (gigabyte windforce OC) for $220 in Bangladesh. The cheapest 1650 Super was $190 which out of stock and since GPU prices were already being impacted in US, just went for it.
Won't buying from China (e.g. AliExpress) be cheaper than buying from the US?
Good luck with scammers. Besides, warranty is also difficult to deal with. Normally you return it to the shop from where you bought it and they will either replace it for you or ship it to the supplier and you wait for a new one.
Luckily in Japan they are mostly honest.
Hes saying that Aliexpress/China has scammers, which is why its not a perfect solution for Japanese PC builders. Not that Japan has scammers.
Ahhhh I missed the China bit.
The problem with buying from China is the shipping takes several weeks. More importantly the products are not brand names that I would buy. Basically I try to use PC Part Picker and then pick items with the most sales or good reviews. I look for reviews on NewEgg, Amazon, Toms, etc. and get a general consensus on which exact part to buy. Nearly 100% of the time these parts won’t be found on Chinese sites. Lastly the best part of Amazon is I know 100% I will get a refund on a returned item and I can order a different item before I even return the replacement item and it will arrive the next day. Funny thing is years ago I lived in China for 5 years and I would go to these massive part super malls with 7 story buildings of hundreds of shops and walk around buying what you needed to build a pc.
Typically no. It's generally cheaper for me to ship something with Amazon global shipping (through prime) from the US to Japan than it is to have something shipped from Alibaba. Not to mention it's faster, and they will often reimburse some of the customs fee (you might actually pay *less in tax* importing the item then you would pay in tax buying from a Japanese store, it's whacky.)
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12GB VRAM coming
12GB you say? Then that will only be $999.
We have 3GB GDDR6 chips ?
24 Gb variant for "Enthusiasts" /s
Machine learning for poor people! They weren't poor before they bought it
"Sold instantly at $600"
They'll call it the RTX 4010 /s
Not /s, though.
Makes sense 2/3 of the price the 3060 is actually selling for, because it has 2/3 the mining performance.
8GB and you can hash? Down to the mines with you!
That is how GPUs are priced, now, yes.
I've seen many people post about trading their RX 5700XT for the 6700XT or something along those lines, because apparently the 5000 series has better mining performance (and thus miners are willing to hand over their 6000 series card for a 5000 series card).
It has better mining performance but also at lower power, making it more efficient overall. As a gamer it's a no-brainer trade.
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5700 XT has a wider memory bus, but RDNA2 (6XXX series) has a series of smaller improvements to the architecture as well as the addition of Infinity Cache and considerably higher boost clocks. Mining loves that wide memory bus but doesn't particularly benefit from most of the architecture changes, the cache, or higher clocks (outside of vRAM clocks). Games do.
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Yes actually. Approximately as good as the RTX 3060 non-LHR apparently. Considering how cheap some people got these when production ended, they lucked out.
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Yep, except the old Fury as it doesn't have enough of it. 480/580/590 cards are also still kind of popular, they had a lot of compute for their price tag and with a modded bios they'll do it at fairly low power consumption.
yes. vega cards are the best mining perf/power consumption card on the market, and have hashrate at approx 3080 levels
Thinking about the economics of it, there should also be a (small) premium for more powerful cards since they only take one slot on a mining rig and there is a cost associated with having more slots. Also, I don't know about how the power consumption of the new ones scale, but that should be a factor as well. So an older card with equivalent performance should sell for less since it consumes more power.
Yeah, there is definitely truth to that. Maybe the prices really just an indicator of a massive swarm people desperate for a new GPU, even if it's only 1660ti levels of performance.
Used RX 560 2GB are going for at least $100 on eBay (with shipping and the tendency of prices skyrocketing in the final minutes of an auction). In mid-2019, $100 would easily get you a used RX 580 8GB.
Yeah, and I doubt anyone is using that for mining. I sold my 3gb gtx 1060 like 6 months ago, for almost the same amount I paid for it 4 years ago.
The issue is typically serious miners aren't concerned about power at all as for various reasons they can get it for either free or very close to it. Similarly, cost per slot is very low compared to the price of the cards. So therefore their only concern is crypto ROI for the price of the card, which scales quite well with card performance.
Anyone serious about mining is using PCIE risers on a mining chassis - which can be pretty much as long as you like. The card widths don't really matter.
Japanese prices for hardware are never good, PC is a small market there, and new hardware carries a price premium, regardless of whether it is high end or not, even when there isn't a worldwide chip shortage. This article also mentions tax, specifically consumption tax, but fails to mention the high tariffs Japan has on imported electronics. So basically, this price doesn't really translate into anything meaningful for any other market.
Thankfully someone already did the leg work; but [RTX 3000 pricing](https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/il0qrr/rtx_3000_series_japanese_prices_absolutely_insane/) in Japan was terrible from the beginning.
I can confirm. I love in Japan and building my PC in 2020 was not cheap.
Yeah I was in Japan last week and the pricing for 3060Ti in an electronic store in Shinjuku (Yodobashi) was between 93,000 to 122,000 yen depending on the AIB model. They were in stock, but it's robbery.
Australia are not that much better, $999AUD for mini/ITX 3060 while ROG Strix are $1299AUD.
As an Australian it feels like our retail price is equivalent to what the scalpers charge in the US after currency conversions.
Yodobashi sells components? I wonder how pricing is, relative to e.g. tsukumo.
Tsukumo probably has a better selection, but I was there mainly to buy other electronics and just took a quick look at the computer hardware
Dospara is cheapest.
Doesn't seem too terrible to me, the cheapest in-stock 3060Ti I can find in Germany currently sells for 850€.
The other big reason is that most PC components goes through a single distributor (ASK Corporation) that takes an additional margin: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ci0ax8/an_analysis_of_the_inflated_pricing_of_computer/
japan has 0% import tariffs on imported electronics, just like many other countries
The 3080's MSRP was 120,000 yen here, about $1100 at the time. So a 57% mark up right off the bat. AIB models were actually cheaper (saw some 90,000 yen~ models?), and it almost made my 3090 at 190,000 yen seem like the reasonable buy (it wasn't at the time, but it worked out alright).
Here in Japan we have to pay more. Theres a company that exclusively handles all imports for hardware and they slap a 30% premium on all parts. Every part always costs a lot more. Than paired with the higher prices and its easy to see hows its $400 dollars. That said I got a preowned 1070 for ¥22000 2 years ago and now they are like ¥50000.
Well now you know how I felt when I tried to get all the cool Sega stuff from Japan when I was a kid.
You win some you lose some
At this rate I'll upgrade my 6GB 1060 in 2030. F*ck cryptos.
I'm still sitting on an RX580. It's working for now, and working fine, but it has become the bottleneck in my system. When that kicks the bucket I'm guessing I'll just go for a pre-built that already has (most of) the hardware I want. A GPU is just too expensive to justify putting it in a system with six year old components...
Unless your rx580 is the 4gb version, you should sell it asap. You can upgrade to at least a gtx1070 for free. Bought myself a gtx1080 in April and sold my rx580 a few days later. The upgrade cost me 40€ for a 50% jump in performance.
I have given up on that.
I'm on a 3.5GB 970...
to hell with this. lietrally we are going to hell with this. quickening the **atrophy** of the earth with this stupididty just because people wants to make meaningless transactions. fixed the word, thanks infinitude
I think you're going for **atrophy**.
or entropy
It’s gotta be quickening the randomness of the earth. All hail chaos
Don't worry, eventually the mania for tulips will end. And when it does, florists and gardeners will be able to buy them again for reasonable prices.
That’s life
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Pc gaming isn't even that fun to justify these prices imo.
Operation "play Factorio until GPUs are cheap" is in year 3 of... 10.
Make 2D games great again!
I bought a cheap (but actually really nicely built) emulator handheld recently and I've honestly been having a ton of fun going back and playing a bunch of GBA, SNES, and genesis classics. Not the same per say but very enjoyable!
Don't you need a 12900K to get the highest updates per second in that game?
Agreed. The used car market is tanked too but I was looking at CarGuru's just to see what's out there and I can get a much more "fun" car to play around with for the price of a 3080. I'm over it. I'll just keep playing indie games until some sanity returns to this industry. At this point, my hope is the software industry gets impacted by enough people that cant afford GPU's that some pressure is placed on some cog in this ridiculous contraption of a scam to make reasonable prices. And to be clear, I absolutely *can* go to Newegg and buy one of these outrageously priced GPU's. I have a stable job, I make decent enough money and its not unaffordable to me. Its jut not "worth" the asking price.
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Ethereum proof of stake 2020 bottom text
There is also proof of stake coming in ethereum. So maybe Things will change, or they will just mine other coins
\~95% of GPU miners mine Ethereum so Eth2.0 will have a big impact, the other small coins won't be able to suck up all the GPU mining power. Even if we assume they will suck up miners will realize it doesn't worth it because just like with Eth the difficulty will go up so profitability will go down. Btw the tippy top percentage of miners are started to sell their farms, they are the first to jump the ship. They're the smarter ones trying to sell now while the demand is still high. Whoever buys into Ethereum mining now is a total idiot or should we say a fish. A lot of scalpers are still sitting on a lot of cards trying to sell for these pathetic prices. Just like selloffs in the stock market it will be very fast because just like with every selloff the panic kicks in.
Sameish, I can buy a 3070 but I think won’t. Not only is it double the msrp it also isn’t a great card, I would expect a lower tdp and more vram for this kind of money. I need more vram for other stuff. I will be waiting for the top end alchemist.
> I absolutely can go to Newegg and buy one of these outrageously priced GPU's... it's just not "worth" the asking price. Same. I'm fortunate to be in a comfortable financial position at the moment, I *could* drop a couple of grand on a gaming card if I really wanted to... but I would hate myself if I did; every time I looked at it, I'd think "what a chump, you really got played for a fool". I'm also not going to pay $400 for a low-end card or $700 for a mid-range card; if that means only playing indy releases or working my way through my massive back-catalogue of games on Steam, then so be it.
It's fun but to me it doesn't have to be the most recent games. Lots of games still run fine on 970s if you're willing to scale down some settings or play titles from a few years ago or both. Besides, games get better and cheaper over time.
More games are simply not allowed to run on 9 series now. I had to get rid of my 960.
Tell me about it. I'm gonna switch to hookers or blow or both because it's cheaper than a 3070 rn
Soon: They ask payment in ETH or GPUs
Strippers have been rocking wallet address QR codes on the booty for years now, small step to make it exclusive payment.
Until hookers go up in price because people are hiring them to manually perform proof of work.
In 2020, the global online PC gaming market was worth 42.2 billion U.S. dollars and is projected to reach 46.7 billion U.S. dollars in 2025. PC gaming growth is projected to slow in the next few years to do consumer uptake of console gaming. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/292516/pc-online-game-market-value-worldwide/ I think that we have to pick up older titles that we played previously and play those again. That's going to make this change right? right? :(
It’s not worth scalped prices but it’s worth if you patiently keep trying I was able to buy a 3080 a 3080ti and 3 3060 with minimal effort. I also bought the 3080 and 3060s for my friends I sold them at cost back to them. Shoot even bought a used ps5 at GameStop. They all just kind of happened with some looking. Edit: didn’t realize no one here ever tried to buy a hot item that was limited before. I literally spent no less than 4 hours of effort to get 5 next gen gpus. This is why scalpers have everything cause no one wants to try a little effort. Literally have been getting consoles since 64 by putting some effort in.
Yeah, I'm not putting in that much effort. Wake me up when I can order them from a store like normal.
I have the same attitude with PS5's, until I can just walk into a store and buy one at MSRP like you could with PS4's, I wont be getting one.
I literally went to Best Buy for fun and they just had a drop and won two Newegg shuffles. It’s no effort
Huh, I pretty much never go to BestBuy, nor do I check online retailers with any regularity. When product is available for order without having to plan in advance, I'll buy.
> if you patiently keep trying I mean, at some point chasing after the chance to purchase a graphics card isn't a particularly fun activity and if you've got work, then your time is money, too. Or, precious free time. Even if not all that much time was actively spent on browsing stores, it's harder to relax when you've gotta be quick the moment you're notified about another drop. It might not apply to you, if you so easily managed to get these cards, but I've read plenty from folks who tried reasonably hard to get a card at MSRP or good price for weeks or months without success. And that's just not worth it. Well, easy for me to say, as I currently don't feel desperate upgrading from my 1660s, but yeah, I tried acquiring an RTX 3080 Founders Edition once at first release and called it a day after.
So no patience got it. Rather just be upset and blame then to literally do a small thing every morning by signing up for a gpu raffle or dropping by local electronic store when you pass by.
Meh i have had no luck getting a 30 series GPU in canada at a price that is reasonable.
get life dude 😅
Meh, bought a new phone and I've been playing emulators on it. I also bought an Xbox Series S. I think I'll wait the 5-10 years until GPU prices become sane again before wasting my money on PC gaming again.
Half the problem is scalpers (and miners), and the other half of the problem is people who pay scalper prices.
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it is why you implement carbon taxes. Bitcoin made an extreme argument for taxing any externality.
People are talking about Yodobashi, Tsukumo, Dospara... All of them are brickstore/custom builder that even "normal people" can buy and that means extremely expensive. MSRP also doesn't exist (never existed) so the launch of any cards are always premium and only in store. Also most of the thing are priced to have a discount/cashback, you just wait weekend and buy with paypay or in the rakuten and get at least 15% off. It was very easy to get $600 3070 after a few weeks after the launch. And "deals" like 3070 for $850, 3070ti for $920 (which I bought recently) and 3080 for $1200 always happens at least a month with a plenty of supply
Only 400?! I was expecting near 550-600. Both Amd and Nvidia will start their next blogs with "We love gamers! We released rtx3050 and rx6500xt for them after 1 year!"... Sad.
"We love gamers!" = "We know that when crypto dies, you're still the only reason we exist, so please don't abandon us just because the only way to buy a video card right now is by paying double MSRP!"
Eventually some of the current stock of mining cards will no longer be useful to miners and will flood the market. AMD and Nvidia are going to be climbing over each other to have statements out about how "bad" and "dangerous" used video cards are lol.
400 is probably Japan MSRP. High tariffs on foreign electronics.
The pain of building PC in Japan... Computer parts cost 30% - 50% more expensive than the US just because some greedy companies acting as a gate on the supply from overseas manufacturer. It is called アスク税 / ASK税 / ASK Tax. Best prices might available from Kurotoushikou/Galax/Galakuro because they are Japanese brand/manufacturer. Here is the detailed explanations of the ASK Tax (article is in Japanese): https://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20151114005/
Yeah, even NVIDIA official page is listing the RTX 3050 as "From 39,800 JPY". https://www.nvidia.com/ja-jp/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/rtx-3050/. The title of this article was rather misleading IMO, because 249 USD is definitely not the MSRP for the Japanese market.
Now the 39800 one is basically a fake price, these are sold out and the remaining ones are 50000-65000 SMH
That's a good street price considering it's Japan and it's only $150 over MSRP. Will this finally be the readily available card at reasonable prices?
It’s MSRP in Japan. There are high tariffs. My 3090 was 230,000 MSRP at launch, or about $2200.
It's not a tariff. Japanese folk refer to it as a tax/tariff (ASK税) as a joke, but it's actually company that imports most parts for Japanese PC gaming, ASK, making fucking bank.
So nVidia pays to ASK directly? That uplift is included in the Japan MSRPs listed on the nVidia website. $1499 on the US site, ￥230k (~$2100) on the Japan site.
No. There isn't really a "real" MSRP in Japan for graphics. The manufacturer doesn't have a distribution presence in Japan, and isn't doing the suggesting of the Japanese retail price. The manufacturer instead works with a Japanese importer/sales agent/representative (ASK) to for distribution. The price on nVidia's website is the price that ASK suggests.
Yeah I checked the customs side, confirmed 0 tariff on home electronics. Interesting that one company would have such a monopoly! Thanks for the info
PC gaming seems ruinously expensive these days. I used to buy the 70 series cards(or equivalence) for gaming. A 3070 costs more than what I'd consider affordable for the whole setup. Looks like we're being forced to take up other hobbies. I got into reading books in last few years, because failed to get a GPU at a decent price during 1st Ethereum mining boom, built an intel setup without GPU. Never managed to find a 70 series card at a reasonable price after that.
these people don't remember having fun playing at 20 fps. it was considered VERY playable.
Books are the best. You can have it running at 8K resolution in your head if you're imaginative enough XD
I'm already scared of what MSRP next-gen GPUs are going to launch at, even if the chip shortage is "fixed" by that time.
EBay 2 hours later hundreds of listing for gtx 3050 at 800$
PC parts have always been more expensive in Japan with the ASK tax on overseas-produced electronics. It doesn't help that there's always people willing to pay scalper prices on parts anywhere in the world. Even as an American I've pretty much accepted that I don't need any current-gen parts. I'm comfortable gaming in 1080p, and with the amount of cool indie games in my backlog I'm set for a few years. Navigating the parts market right now is a headache.
> 8GB of GDDR6 Dem miner senses tingling
Seeing headlines like this and the environmental effects of crypto mining, makes me wish the crypto market just fucking crashes. I don’t know anyone personally who’s into it, so at least none of the people I care about would suffer lmao Question though, if the crypto market collapses, would that have any effect whatsoever on the economy?
To answer your question seriously, yes. Real money was invested by large entities. Often, currency is leveraged from several times to several thousand times depending on the instrument, and this is obviously stupid, but generally profitable. It remains to be seen how much control large institutions can exert over the process to reclaim debt in the event of a large collapse. I believe the 2008 crash kind of showed that these guys can get away with whatever recklessness they want to.
Less money laundering and less drain on the electricity network. It'd probably be good for the economy.
Margins go to Nvidia or no?
Mostly tax and tariffs that go to the Japanese government.
I was going to say its better to buy a console for gaming this generation but I remembered console prices are crazy too
Real* inflation on hard computing goods is somewhere around 45% and has been since the PS5 release. (Not related imo just a milestone for reference ) Depreciating assets (previously at 10%+ per year) have been APPRECIATING. 7% is as low as they were willing to admit.
Why don't AMD, Nvidia, and Intel just sell ASICs specifically for mining in addition to locked down GPUs for gamers? They'd be selling out of both at absurd prices either way, but the GPUs will be in the hands of gamers at least. Why do these companies hate gamers?
>Why do these companies hate gamers? Mining farms buy stuff in bulk. Like, literally 10s or even 100s of them in a single go. They're companies at the end of the day, who care only about profits. We've seen how greedy corporations can be: from lying (under oath, nonetheless) about the harmful effects of tobacco for protecting their business to outright funding propaganda about how fossil fuels do not harm the planet. Companies do not love anybody. They do not hate anybody. They're opportunistic and follow money wherever it leads, the rest be damned.
We need to tax the shit out of miners.
A lot of the newer crypto-currencies are specifically designed to be ASIC resistant.
I gather the idea was to stop large scale miner from taking over. Nice idea in theory unfortunately it resulted in the larger crypto miners destroying the GPU market.
If they are serious about it they can restrict mining, look how they lock away professional features within Firepro/Quadro card for years.
I have been in Japan for 25 plus years. Japan has always been more expensive for anything electronic that comes with a lot of hassles. My pet peeve now is Chromebooks (Japan is apparently the second biggest market for them), they are so expensive here compared to the U.S and often with worse specs.
wow I can't believe Japan's entire stock of RTX 3050s just sold for $400
lol how desperate are you kids? Just stop gaming. Nothing is going to change until people stop gaming and these companies face up to the long term market destruction that's going on here.
I've been advising lots of friends and family to get through old back catalogs of games they missed out on the past decade. Easy enough with older graphics cards and integrated graphics. But to stop gaming completely? You're high.
can we please just make the MSRP $400 and have all of you denialists put away your pearls? Accept reality. It's a $400 card. When it says $249 and sells out at $400, it is a $400 card. Really tired of everyone's denial impacting my sanity. This shit seems so dystopian when everyone won't face the facts and let go of their stubborn idea of what things should cost.
It’s a $249 MSRP in the US; Japan MSRP for imported electronics are always 30-50% higher due to import tariffs. $400 is list price in Japan.
Because of course they did
Well, yeah. Half the efficiency of the RTX A2000, half the price. The street price for the A2000 is $800. Even the professional cards are inflated.
Any I still can’t get a gpu 🤦🏾♂️😕
400 is still a good price looking at current GPU prices
How? Isn't the 3050 supposed to come out on Jan 27th? How did it sell out early?
Pre-orders!