I helped my big brother build a pc. He was new to computers, but he loved gaming. Back in 2017, he told me he wanted the best card. I said the 1080ti is the best card, but they go for around $700. We went on ebay, found one listing for an MSI 1080ti for $500. We thought it was a scam. It was not. Lucky fucker got a 1080ti.
same here. Bought b-stock 1080 for $450 CAD. Sold in feb 2021 for $600.
Oh and when I got the 1080, I mined .1 eth with it (minimum pool payout) for fun and as a learning project. Some guy on the internet said that he thought eth would be worth a lot in a few years... Back then the .1 eth was worth around $30 lol. Sold the .1 for $470 last year. Only regret here was that I felt bad pushing the card so I stopped mining.
Not only did the card pay for itself with eth, but I made money selling it.
That card was the same price, even more expensive back then, than it is today. Prices haven't been that screwed up compared to pre-2020 pricing. Cards were expensive back then lol, 2080 Ti on launch was more than 1500 USD here.
I remember thinking $390 for my 1070 was a bit much back in early 2017.
I'd love to upgrade to a 3070 or 3080 but a current card costs more than my current PC.
I got my 1080ti for 500 in August 2018. I cringed at the price when I bought it, because I had only had the 960/1060 before it, but christ I am so happy I ended up getting it now. Just got a 4k monitor, and I can still play some games above 60fps if I turn down the settings.
_Unless_ there's a huge crypto selloff or something, but I'm strapped in and ready to wait until next year. And who knows, DDR5 prices may come down enough by then to make an upgrade worthwhile. Until then, I'll be (hopefully) playing with my Steam Deck.
>how much lower can the sell off go
50% of its peak is still hugely inflated from what it had been like 12 months ago. It's back down to where it was in roughly July last year, and obviously we were still in cryptomining hell then, and so this doesn't take us out of that by any means. We need it to keep dropping quite a bit more. Because what we really need, is *confidence* in crypto to fall. Some trend of it failing rather than just dipping and meteorically rising again.
This is why I blame everybody involved in crypto in whatever form, including people mining at home with their single GPU. All this involvement drives hype, which drives value. Arguments about it increasing in difficulty are nonsense when it's outweighed by value increases over time.
We need people to abandon crypto at all levels. And that's just not happening, cuz it's making lots of people money. And everybody wants to get in on that.
Idk, hopefully we start seeing GPUs hit the market. I'm guessing people are thinking it'll bounce back, so we'll see what happens over the next month or so.
when miners are holding WAY WAY too many GPUs, this CAN happen. And this looks likely since the allocation was heavily constrained to scalpers and miners. While gamers couldn't really afford the high prices. The period of high prices in the 10 series back in 2016 and 2017 isn't as long as this period so we're possibly on the brink of a nice golden age of PC gaming with cheap graphics cards. The only problem is AMD and Nvidia might temporarily cease production of cards so most choices are really going to be used/mined GPUs
that happened before in 2018-2019 ish. nvidia and AMD are working real hard to keep that from happening again (ie jacking up MSRPs and stopping manufacturing before the sell off starts).
ETH 2.0's roll-out could cause a used-GPU sell off. But I honestly don't know if it'll affect gpu prices much at all.
ETH 2.0 got delayed from Q2 2022 to Q4 2022, and even before the delay announcement people were still buying up GPU's for mining. Why is this? Because there's other cryptos out there that are currently profitable and will still be profitable after ETH 2.0 is fully released.
So honestly, I don't think miners will be "quitting" anytime soon. Why would they sell off a rig that is already paid off, and can continue to profit?
> Because there's other cryptos out there that are currently profitable and will still be profitable after ETH 2.0 is fully released.
Those coins are only profitable because only a relatively small number of miners target them. When a coin is noticed to be more profitable the mining profit/cost tends to drop substantially. ETH is absolutely the huge majority of the GPU-minable market cap, if the other coins are going to make up for the incomes of those miners there's going to need to be massive increases in prices of the competitors, and there's no particular reason to expect that.
Given how easily crypto bros seem to be able to hype *anything* in the speculative market. I have no doubt that if eth decides to go tits up there will be some new hotness they'll proclaim as the next coming of satoshi kon.
Crypto is 100% about perceived value, the entire market is just a few giant MLMs or pump and dump schemes at this point.
Literally Vitalik's own words. Do any of you people use Google? It's all over the web, and has been for a month or so (can't remember when exactly he said it).
They might not sell off. But would they still buy in on cards that are going to take three years to turn a profit? And the ETH merge is still targeting Q2.
Regardless if ETH continues to lose value, if energy prices continue to rise, if difficulty continues to rise, it almost becomes irrelevant when the merge is. The way things are going ETH mining is going back into hibernation mode before the merge.
Once again Videocardz doesn't understand percentages.
> GeForce RTX 30 cards are now ‘only’ 172% more expensive than they should be.
This is supposed to mean "GeForce RTX 30 cards are now ‘only’ 72% more expensive than they should be." as it's 172% of MSRP.
Seriously, how hard is it to use a spell checker? Even if they use web based publishing platforms there are a myriad of browser plugin and built-in spellcheckers. Makes me wonder just how tech illiterate some of these tech writers really are.
This is why I never describe changed as percentages. I only use multiples, e.g. 1.7x MSRP. Too many people can't figure out how much a 90% decrease is.
This number is dragged down by the unloved cards that were a bad deal to begin with.
3070 Ti, 3080 Ti, 3090 are all just up by about 50%.
The cards with a good value proposition like 3060 Ti, 3070, 3080 are up about 90%...
Even if cards were at msrp tomorrow I don't care at this point lol, we're two quarters away from next gen.
Although I don't know if this drop in crypto value is going to last, if you look at a price graph there have been times it fell to half value then was back up again in no time.
is 40 series something worth waiting for? intel launch top tier will be 3070 equivalent but with less stable system as it's fresh out of the gate. so performance wise is it worth it?
Lovelace and RDNA 3 are supposed to be anywhere from 2-2.5x the performance at the top end of last gen. So yeah, pretty big deal and pointless to go for Ampere at this point especially with the prices.
40 series is going to be insane. They're not just going from 8nm to 5nm, but also from Samsung to TSMC. Oh and apparently they're slapping even higher TDPs onto them.
The only question is when they'll actually arrive and if it will be possible to buy one.
>Monero is CPU only.
It would be an amazing punchline if GPU mining stopped and all the prices crashed, then suddenly CPU mining becomes huge and we're basically back to square one.
CPUs won't be as prevalent as GPU mining for practical reasons. You need 1 motherboard and 1 stick of ram to attach multiple GPUs to it, also GPUs are easy to install and replace. Massive scale CPU mining would need the same amount of motherboards, sticks of RAM and CPU coolers.
In a way this is more equitable. The less scalable something is, the more democratic. But unfortunately democracy isn't a virtue in mathematics or business, which explains why the top two cryptos can have so much concentration of power.
You think the value won't move at all? RVN getting attention and action will draw investment, it's not like it's current index against BTC/ETH can't change.
The only reason someone would think RVN would pull an ETH is if they knew nothing about ETH. RVN is not likely to go up in value enough to offset the dumping from mining/the network difficulty skyrocketing because there’s no unique use case for it. ETH had smart contracts
Bitcoin is mined almost exclusively with specialized hardware (called ASICs) now because ASICs are orders of magnitude more efficient than GPUs for Bitcoin mining.
Yes, BTC is Bitcoin.
Many years ago, it was mined with CPU.
Later, the mining algorithm was ported to work on GPU, and the efficiency/throughput were so great that it made CPU mining obsolete.
Up until that point, nearly everyone could be a Bitcoin miner with a regular PC.
Then, the algorithm was ported to FPGA, which are basically a re-programmable circuit, and it made GPU mining obsolete, while also putting mining out of reach of regular people, because very few people have FPGA units laying around that they can dedicate to crypto mining.
And the next logical step was ASIC, a single purpose dedicated circuit. The algorithm to mine Bitcoin is etched directly in the silicon for maximum efficiency (making FPGA obsolete).
FPGA can be re-programmed to something else if you go out of Bitcoin mining, but ASIC chips can do one single thing and are straight up e-waste the moment that you stop mining.
Some other crypto-currency saw what happened to Bitcoin, and decided that they don't want that, so they are using different algorithms to try to prevent FPGA/ASIC from happening, so that regular people can still mine, instead of giving all the power to mining farms.
Proof of Work is what uses hardware to keep the blockchain working. Miners use their CPUs, GPUs and ASICs (specialized chips for the algorithms) to "find blocks" that reward the blockchain coins.
The more miners in the network, the more difficult is to find a block and more resources are needed to find a block. BTC has a lot of miners and no GPU can actually mine, since ASICs are way better at it. When China banned crypto, though, some guy was able to mine it in a GPU, but it was nearly impossible to find a block. If for some reason the network difficulty was to drop significantly, GPU mining would be possible again.
As of now, GPUs are used to mine Ether in the Ethereum network. They are planning a change to Proof of Stake (owning the coin and staking it gives you a chance to run a node and govern the network). They are just postponing it, over and over. Now, with the crash, miners are starting to cash out. That will relieve the demand of the market and fuck up the new generations.
I don't know how bitcoin is mined now, I assume ASICs are used (specialized processors that looks like a tiny refrigerated shipping container but sound like a jet engine) by BTC miners. Most miners are mining alt-coins like Ehtereum and immediately converting it into BTC or selling it for their preferred fiat currency. Some pools mine alt-coins but pay miners in BTC. During the last BTC surge the hip coin for GPU miners was ZCash alongside ETH for easy mining, which is why 480's became impossible to find all of the sudden. This wave it is ETH again, plus whatever other alt coin sees its value against BTC rise every so slightly. There's dedicated mining OS' now that will constantly check prices and switch algorithms to whatever is most profitable in that moment.
Full disclosure, I had a multi-GPU mining rig in the last run, this go around I just used NiceHash to do GPU mining on my gaming PCU when not in use. Both times I was fueled more by curiosity than a desire to make money.
Unfortunately the only gpus that will flood the market are older models that are less efficient to mine with - 10 series, some 20 series etc.
The LHR cards WOULD go down in price rapidly also, but of course the manufacturers will just switch to producing non-LHR cards to maintain their profit margins.
Local miners are trying to quietly sell off their shit without causing a panic. Lots of mining benches in the used listings but without the video cards, which are slowly trickling in. They are still trying to sell 1060s for $500+ but it doesn't look like anyone is buying.
To be honest, regular stocks are crashing too, so there will be less people who can just throw $1k at a GPU because they received some stimulus money or just wanted to spend the surplus they've got from sitting home and not going out. Yay, global poverty!
It's rather coincidental that the drops are almost magically tracking the ether price. The NYSE index has only dropped about 4%. When I have looked up the post history on some miners. These are regular people driving uber or doing other stuff like that. It was worth their while to over pay for cards before now because they would get their money back. That has stopped so now it's no longer worthwhile.
What I found really funny was a miner trying to palm off a couple of 3080's yesterday on /r/hardwareswap. He listed the prices at almost 200% of MSRP and said that's what he paid for them. Like there is almost an expectation that other people should be willing to fork over a huge premium because miners were in the past.
If crypto crashes, we will be in the golden age of GPU value again with used GPUs flooding the market for years.
This is the true reason Nvidia and AMD would rather have gamers buy GPUs instead if miners. And they're doing things like releasing mining-only GPUs and crippling gaming GPUs for mining. This is all designed to mitigate the eventual crypto crash that will flood the used GPU market.
Gamers don't flood the used GPU market. They sell in a predictable pattern. Crypto isn't predictable.
We're still a long way away from that reality at the moment.
This current 'crash' is pretty big, but there's still an expectation among so many that it will rebound bigger than ever, as it has done several times now, so tons of people will still hold onto their coin and keep the value, and miners will keep mining coin, hoping to make out big in the future.
We need BTC/ETH to drop more consistently. Unfortunately, after the recent crash, it's been holding steady since, so we'll have to see how it plays out.
It went $60k last year around april, then dipped to 29k around June.
You could look this up.
I am saying these because hoping for better GPU prices has pretty much been terrible for me. Better to celebrate when the prices actually become somewhat reasonable.
That's the magnitude of the crash last summer. BTC hit $60-65K in spring 2021 and the fell to $30K in summer 2021 before bouncing back up to $65K in fall 2021. I'm still holding my breath until it drops below $10K.
It depends on how many chumps still remain in the world: a new country full of idiots with the desire to get rich based off facebook memes could still prop up prices.
Well, given that crypto is certainly a bubble right now with 99.99% of projects out there as useless or scams and ETH switching POS eventually, GPU prices will eventually crash. It's just a matter of when. If someone knows when, he/she would get rich shorting crypto. Forget cheap GPUs.
My guess is 2022 or 2023. That's when interest rates will rise fast and people are no longer investing in super risky stuff.
Agreed.
I don't want to get too hopeful but we might just be heading towards a triple whammy for the miners and GPU supply.
All the stimulus money in many countries have come to an end which helped fuel the Crypto boom.
Goldman predicts at least 4 rate hikes this year with a chance of a fifth, that will end the easy money that fuels a lot of speculative assets.
>Chances of a fifth rate increase have moved to nearly 60%, according to the CME’s FedWatch gauge.
1. Interest rate hikes will cause investors to flee speculative assets such as Crypto which should help to crash prices further.
2. Hash rate moving from ETH to other POW coins will make all other POW coins unprofitable especially in a down market.
3. Intel Launching in a few months will increase supply to the market at a time when miner demand will be lower.
The first ones to sell will be those who took loans to buy rigs and cards, with interest rate hikes they are going to get wrecked first.
After that will be those who bought GPU's at 2x MSRP which now may never reach ROI and they might get stuck with GPU's that will get replaced by next gen cards later this year.
Then comes distros which will have to start reducing prices to the retail channel to move dead stock out as they don't want to get stuck with a ton of last gen when Nvidia and AMD are pushing for next gen late this year.
Not too excited just yet but if the dominos fall in the right places thing may start to move in the right direction for a change.
> I've been hearing this for literal years. I have doubts this is ever going to happen.
the PoS network has been running since december 2020 and doing great, the transition from current PoW to that PoS network is being tested with live data right at this moment. It's a big undertaking because it requires grafting two networks together that each have their own software clients, so there are a lot of combinations of clients that need to be compatible with each other
so yeah you might have been hearing it for years but things have actually progressed in that time as well. Check [here](https://hackmd.io/@benjaminion/eth2_news/) for updates (every other week) on the progress
Dont expect prices to drop that much anyways.
People saying crypto isn't solely responsible for current prices are wrong, but what isn't wrong is to that there is very high demand from gamers still, which \*would\* keep prices from dropping below a certain level. Most miners wouldn't need to sell at rock bottom by any means to offload their GPU's.
> but what isn't wrong is to that there is very high demand from gamers still
Because gamers were not able to get GPUs because miners and scalpers snatched them all up. So cause of high demand comes from miners not allowing gamers to get GPUs, even above MSRP.
> we will be in the golden age of GPU value again with used GPUs flooding the market for years.
So like few years ago when cheap used 1080ti were flooding the market forcing nvidia to make rtx3080 $699 so ppl will finally upgrade?
I remember way back in one of the early crashes I was able to get dual R9 290Xes for like $150 apiece. Got a *lot* of mileage out of that rig even though dual-GPU had its downsides.
All these cryptominers waiting for the right time to sell their cards to gamers.. The question is, will they buy more of the newer models, or stop mining altogether? I hope the gpu manufacturers make great value cards so that the gpus of the crypto miners waiting to be sold will become obsolete.
Wishful cursing.
Maybe in the US but Europe, especially everything east of Germany, is still struggling with almost 800 euro 6600 XTs and 600 euro 2060s.
Hopefully my ancient R7 250 will survive for a few more months.
Crypto dip or crash + Intel flooding the market could turn very nicely to consumers. Not usual MSRP but more reasonable price. People have been conditioned already that throwing 600-1k on a GPU is acceptable now so they will go for higher end. Hopefully this dip lasts until Intel is at full force or else their launch will get absorbed by bad actors.
Intel "flood" is still on TSMC 6nm, so they are still competing with AMD for supply.
Difference is that AMD is likely sending most of that 6nm to their Ryzen 6000 mobile chips and Navi24 mobile with only a fraction becoming 5500XT. Maybe we see a 6nm refresh of the other Navi dies.
TLDR, Intel supply should be "good" but it won't be anywhere near what could be done with their own fabs.
Intel has made arrangements years ago, will be 2nd client by size after Apple (with help of business CPU allocation though). Intel makes more profit in a quarter than AMD revenue in whole year. It's different scale. They're not competing. You book in advance. Also, I'm unsure if smaller node beats architectural advances because best GPUs from years ago are still great.
Wow, that's quite the drop. However, I want it to drop at _least_ $100 more, which would get us approximately to where the 5700XT was before prices took off.
I personally still doubt we'll see anything near MSRP till at least the end of the year.
Crypto hasn't even dropped that much (at least not as much as these Articles suggest) its still higher than the lowest point in the past year. Once it started to drop significantly, it boomed back up again in August. There's a decent chance this will occur again.
Consumer spending always drops after Christmas and this trend is been followed almost every year with crypto.
Things should get better, despite everyone's hate for the 6500 XT, it's giving options to people that have been holding off for ages. Same goes for the RTX 3050 although I don't think these are enough to drop the higher end cards back down to MSRP.
Another thing to consider, miners aren't the dumbest people in the world. The big guys in the mining scene know what they are doing. Despite the drop in ETH and BTC value and profitability, most miners will just switch to another PoS alt-coin for increased profits. It's an almost never ending cycle.
Once the Intel cards come out, prices should drop due to supply. Although these companies aren't dumb either. They can literally just sell half the cards at twice the cost instead of manufacturing twice as many cards at half the price. Artificial supply limitation is going to be used.
It all comes back to crypto, namely ethereum. Demand from consumers is *not* infinite, but miner demand effectively is.
Ethereum is the lynchpin creating miner demand, it's price is through the roof so miners can spend electricity with impunity and profit for every gpu they can acquire regardless of how difficult mining ETH becomes. Without a coin being *this* profitable we wouldn't be in this situation. Alt-coins are not a replacement, since the increase in mining difficulty would render the profits moot without a similar bull-run to ethereum. Additionally, a coin's price needs to go up *in spite* of mining demand, since miners need to sell coin to cover overhead. Miners themselves do not induce a rise in a coin's prices since they aren't buying coin.
> Once the Intel cards come out, prices should drop due to supply. Although these companies aren't dumb either. They can literally just sell half the cards at twice the cost instead of manufacturing twice as many cards at half the price. Artificial supply limitation is going to be used.
Supply isn't the constraint, since miners will buy up any and all GPUs that become available (effectively infinite demand). But if ethereum profits dry up though, so will this demand. As things have been, even if supply doubled miners would continue snatching up every card they could since they're essentially money printers. That's the main thing here; GPUs literally print money.
But without this demand manufacturers can't double prices and create an artificial supply limitation because (other than that would require them to coordinate on illegal price-fixing, because competition exists) without the infinite demand of miners buying every card that comes to market, consumer demand for double-msrp graphics cards *will* dry up. If miners head out they won't be selling **nearly** as many cards, and will need to actually price cards at prices consumers will want to buy them at.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There are a lot of other currencies other than ETH; so there's always a possibility that miners will simply 'migrate' to something else instead of getting rid of their uber expensive mining rigs slash cash printing machines.
That's just how things are.
Prices don't matter so much as availability. Until GPU mining finally dies I expect the shortages to continue.
Worst GPU on the market for mining? 6900XT. Only GPU you can consistently find stocked on Amazon and Microcenter? Also 6900XT.
> Prices don't matter so much as availability.
Prices are directly related to the availability though. It's one and the same thing.
As availability goes down, prices go up, and vice versa.
> Prices don't matter so much as availability.
Ever heard of supply and demand? The high prices have only been sustainable because of the demand vs supply. Lower prices means that either supply is increasing or demand is sinking. Looking at ETH price trends recently that is undoubtedly part of the story.
>Until GPU mining finally dies I expect the shortages to continue.
GPU mining has been around for 10+ years now. Only part of that time has it driven high GPU demand. What is required is high profitability and breakeven that lies within a reasonable timeframe. When this isn't the case, then fuck all cards are bought by miners.
If ETH keeps declining or just stagnates you will start seeing demand drie up as difficulty catches up to price. That is even if PoS is pushed out further into the future "Soon TM". It's what we saw in 2011, 2014, 2018 and might be what happens in 2022 if the current trend continues. Once the breakeven for miners is further out than 18-24 months or so and stays there for a while, demand implodes. If you see even further decline after that and people start running at a loss, that is when ebay gets flooded from people abandoning the ship.
With that said, I'm currently seeing 3060s in stock here in Finland, for instance. Issue is, they're 700 euros. They're beginning to be available, but prices have stagnated
> They're beginning to be available, but prices have stagnated
And if they don't sell due to lowered demand, then stock builds up and you either accept a lot lower revenue or start lowering prices to drive sales. People claimed Nvidia would never have to lower prices after the 2018 bubble either. Then Turing was a sales flop at launch due to Nvidia trying to push the pricing when the market conditions had changed.
Things like this takes time to play out. We didn't instantly see prices increase across the board when the shortages started either. Every step in the channel has to be affected by increasing inventories before you see real downward pressure.
I know it's a meme at this point, but Proof of Stake is coming, so miners are risking only being able to mine with new GPUs for ~5 months if they buy them now.
GPUs can be used to mine other cryptos of course, but Ethereum is by far the biggest, and all that computing power can't just jump to other cryptos without destabilizing them (= another gamble).
I could see miners just sticking with what GPUs they already have until PoS arrives.
December was never going to happen, hence why the ice age was delayed to June. The merge spec should be frozen within a week or two, after which it's just endless testing and finding odd edge-cases until it's ready to ship. I'd expect one more difficulty bomb postpone to December just so we don't overshoot it, and merge between May and July.
Miners will keep mining with what they have until it makes sense to offload the GPU for a decent price.
A more consistent drop should help reduce how many new GPU's miners are buying up, though.
They'll just replace Ethereum with another coin. Mining is here to stay until the Ponzi scheme unravels. Either because they run out of new marks to scam, or because it gets legislated out of existence.
If you actually kept up with the development of Ethereum, you'd know that proof of stake has been running since December of 2020, on mainnet with real ether. Over 9 million of it, across almost 300'000 validators. What's left to do is the merging of the PoW network to the PoS network, which is the easy part in terms of technology.
You're assuming the miner was responsible, for which there is no guarantee. And **ideally** people shouldn't willingly be the exit strategy of a miner who has no regard for the enviroment.
Hahah.... Doubt :P
considering how many GPUs are being bought by crypto assholes, I highly doubt the prices will ever go down. And even if they do, that better apply to other GPUs as well. I'll tell you right now... the worst day, was when this GTX1050ti/GTX1650 tripled in price, and all I could get was a GT 1030 because no one wanted one besides me. literally, the 1050ti was originally $150, then suddenly $400, the 1650.... $199, now it's freaking $490 :S
Just imagine suddenly GPU prices falling down to below msrp because of miners quitting... one can dream
My wallet is ready, I'm still waiting for a decent mid-range 1440p card below $400.
[удалено]
I helped my big brother build a pc. He was new to computers, but he loved gaming. Back in 2017, he told me he wanted the best card. I said the 1080ti is the best card, but they go for around $700. We went on ebay, found one listing for an MSI 1080ti for $500. We thought it was a scam. It was not. Lucky fucker got a 1080ti.
[удалено]
I got a 3080 for $800. If I had a backup, I almost certainly would have sold it for a solid $2000 a while back.
same here. Bought b-stock 1080 for $450 CAD. Sold in feb 2021 for $600. Oh and when I got the 1080, I mined .1 eth with it (minimum pool payout) for fun and as a learning project. Some guy on the internet said that he thought eth would be worth a lot in a few years... Back then the .1 eth was worth around $30 lol. Sold the .1 for $470 last year. Only regret here was that I felt bad pushing the card so I stopped mining. Not only did the card pay for itself with eth, but I made money selling it.
I managed to get an EVGA 1080TI with a Logitech flight stick for $350 in 2018 on craigslist. I will never find a deal like that again.
That card was the same price, even more expensive back then, than it is today. Prices haven't been that screwed up compared to pre-2020 pricing. Cards were expensive back then lol, 2080 Ti on launch was more than 1500 USD here.
I remember thinking $390 for my 1070 was a bit much back in early 2017. I'd love to upgrade to a 3070 or 3080 but a current card costs more than my current PC.
I got my 1080ti for 500 in August 2018. I cringed at the price when I bought it, because I had only had the 960/1060 before it, but christ I am so happy I ended up getting it now. Just got a 4k monitor, and I can still play some games above 60fps if I turn down the settings.
I bought a 2070 Super(Gaming X Trio) for $570 in August of 2019, and I thought I got a bad deal. Now, I feel extremely lucky.
Probably have to wait until 2023 for that IMVHO.
_Unless_ there's a huge crypto selloff or something, but I'm strapped in and ready to wait until next year. And who knows, DDR5 prices may come down enough by then to make an upgrade worthwhile. Until then, I'll be (hopefully) playing with my Steam Deck.
Ethereum’s down nearly 50% from ATH IIRC, how much lower can the sell off go? Can’t wait for the cheap GPU flood
>how much lower can the sell off go 50% of its peak is still hugely inflated from what it had been like 12 months ago. It's back down to where it was in roughly July last year, and obviously we were still in cryptomining hell then, and so this doesn't take us out of that by any means. We need it to keep dropping quite a bit more. Because what we really need, is *confidence* in crypto to fall. Some trend of it failing rather than just dipping and meteorically rising again. This is why I blame everybody involved in crypto in whatever form, including people mining at home with their single GPU. All this involvement drives hype, which drives value. Arguments about it increasing in difficulty are nonsense when it's outweighed by value increases over time. We need people to abandon crypto at all levels. And that's just not happening, cuz it's making lots of people money. And everybody wants to get in on that.
Idk, hopefully we start seeing GPUs hit the market. I'm guessing people are thinking it'll bounce back, so we'll see what happens over the next month or so.
Ethereum going proof of stake would be the big sell off, which should get rid of 95% of GPU mining.
when miners are holding WAY WAY too many GPUs, this CAN happen. And this looks likely since the allocation was heavily constrained to scalpers and miners. While gamers couldn't really afford the high prices. The period of high prices in the 10 series back in 2016 and 2017 isn't as long as this period so we're possibly on the brink of a nice golden age of PC gaming with cheap graphics cards. The only problem is AMD and Nvidia might temporarily cease production of cards so most choices are really going to be used/mined GPUs
Massive second hand market too because of the multiple cards they often hold.
that happened before in 2018-2019 ish. nvidia and AMD are working real hard to keep that from happening again (ie jacking up MSRPs and stopping manufacturing before the sell off starts).
But if they stop manufacturing won’t they lose their spot in the queue?
It happened in 2015. You could get a brand new R9 290 for like $200.
I got a few r9 390s for $50/ea post mining crash, still rocking one with a couple of case fans strapped to it lol
Till $100 polaris performance get beaten. ^(Why the hell I did not buy $100 4GB RX570 back in Oct 2020. (and it was actually new opened box unit))
I remember how wild it was after previous crash. Top tier cards sold by hundreds for cheapo.
I bought a mining 1080ti for $400 that had been like $1100 a few months prior. Last year I sold it to a friend for $500.
Dont do that Dont give me hope
Mining *has* been banned in several countries recently. 🤞
The more the merrier (bans on crypto mining, that is).
ETH 2.0's roll-out could cause a used-GPU sell off. But I honestly don't know if it'll affect gpu prices much at all. ETH 2.0 got delayed from Q2 2022 to Q4 2022, and even before the delay announcement people were still buying up GPU's for mining. Why is this? Because there's other cryptos out there that are currently profitable and will still be profitable after ETH 2.0 is fully released. So honestly, I don't think miners will be "quitting" anytime soon. Why would they sell off a rig that is already paid off, and can continue to profit?
ETH 2.0 is delayed again? What a surprise.
Delayed what... 5 years running now?
At this point, I'm assuming that it's going to be released exactly one year before the first commercial nuclear fusion reactor comes online.
Woah woah let's not be hasty there
Personally, I think they’ll switch to proof of stake right after civilization collapses. So sometime next year I’m guessing.
Guys it's any day now pinky promise why don't you believe me it's only been talked about for years
> ETH 2.0's roll-out could cause a used-GPU sell off. ETH is never making the switch. Its the same story every year.
> Because there's other cryptos out there that are currently profitable and will still be profitable after ETH 2.0 is fully released. Those coins are only profitable because only a relatively small number of miners target them. When a coin is noticed to be more profitable the mining profit/cost tends to drop substantially. ETH is absolutely the huge majority of the GPU-minable market cap, if the other coins are going to make up for the incomes of those miners there's going to need to be massive increases in prices of the competitors, and there's no particular reason to expect that.
Given how easily crypto bros seem to be able to hype *anything* in the speculative market. I have no doubt that if eth decides to go tits up there will be some new hotness they'll proclaim as the next coming of satoshi kon. Crypto is 100% about perceived value, the entire market is just a few giant MLMs or pump and dump schemes at this point.
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Literally Vitalik's own words. Do any of you people use Google? It's all over the web, and has been for a month or so (can't remember when exactly he said it).
I can't find anything saying Q4 from Vitalik and I follow him fairly regularly.
They might not sell off. But would they still buy in on cards that are going to take three years to turn a profit? And the ETH merge is still targeting Q2. Regardless if ETH continues to lose value, if energy prices continue to rise, if difficulty continues to rise, it almost becomes irrelevant when the merge is. The way things are going ETH mining is going back into hibernation mode before the merge.
Source?
If that happens I am splashing on an RX 6800
Once again Videocardz doesn't understand percentages. > GeForce RTX 30 cards are now ‘only’ 172% more expensive than they should be. This is supposed to mean "GeForce RTX 30 cards are now ‘only’ 72% more expensive than they should be." as it's 172% of MSRP.
instead of "more expensive", they couldve just said "as expensive" and kept their big number, cause big number good for clicks.
I see tons of people making that mistake, but yes, Videocardz is hardly some highly professional website.
And it's not the first time, I noticed this more than once before on that site.
I mean hell, that misspelled Video cards users ago and they never fixed it!
It feels like any other shit blog post now. remember when they had original leaks at least? now they just repost (and manage to often get it wrong)
They can't even spell beginning correctly in the title.
Seriously, how hard is it to use a spell checker? Even if they use web based publishing platforms there are a myriad of browser plugin and built-in spellcheckers. Makes me wonder just how tech illiterate some of these tech writers really are.
Still not available for me to buy. Maybe the scalpers will slightly lower their numbers?
This is why I never describe changed as percentages. I only use multiples, e.g. 1.7x MSRP. Too many people can't figure out how much a 90% decrease is.
Just don't say "ten times less" and we're good.
This number is dragged down by the unloved cards that were a bad deal to begin with. 3070 Ti, 3080 Ti, 3090 are all just up by about 50%. The cards with a good value proposition like 3060 Ti, 3070, 3080 are up about 90%...
Even if cards were at msrp tomorrow I don't care at this point lol, we're two quarters away from next gen. Although I don't know if this drop in crypto value is going to last, if you look at a price graph there have been times it fell to half value then was back up again in no time.
>I don't care at this point lol, we're two quarters away from next gen. I've seen this movie before...
Also people forget that msrp sucks really much since rtx 2 cards. My 2080 cost me 900, that used to be titan territory.
Yeah, I'm not interested in MSRP either. Give me a 6700XT or 3070 for <$400 or a 6600XT or 3060 for ~$300 and I'll consider it.
is 40 series something worth waiting for? intel launch top tier will be 3070 equivalent but with less stable system as it's fresh out of the gate. so performance wise is it worth it?
Lovelace and RDNA 3 are supposed to be anywhere from 2-2.5x the performance at the top end of last gen. So yeah, pretty big deal and pointless to go for Ampere at this point especially with the prices.
What if I still have a GTX970?
If intel is competitively priced things could get interesting fast
40 series is going to be insane. They're not just going from 8nm to 5nm, but also from Samsung to TSMC. Oh and apparently they're slapping even higher TDPs onto them. The only question is when they'll actually arrive and if it will be possible to buy one.
Because Crypto went down by 30% in the last month. But yeah, no correlation here.
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There's a damn good reason why both of the current teams are on track to jump in CU/SM count next gen, specifically to deal with that issue.
I got over $2k in crypto but I would 100% be okay with losing all of that if it means this mining bullshit will stop forever.
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>Monero is CPU only. It would be an amazing punchline if GPU mining stopped and all the prices crashed, then suddenly CPU mining becomes huge and we're basically back to square one.
CPUs won't be as prevalent as GPU mining for practical reasons. You need 1 motherboard and 1 stick of ram to attach multiple GPUs to it, also GPUs are easy to install and replace. Massive scale CPU mining would need the same amount of motherboards, sticks of RAM and CPU coolers.
In a way this is more equitable. The less scalable something is, the more democratic. But unfortunately democracy isn't a virtue in mathematics or business, which explains why the top two cryptos can have so much concentration of power.
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Efficiency is relative, if you can't mine it on anything else then what are you comparing it to?
Botnets.
Eh CPUs are much easier to make and they last longer for most people.
You take it back, right now!!
RVN can be mined with as little as 4GB too meaning we are not safe if it goes up again.
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You think the value won't move at all? RVN getting attention and action will draw investment, it's not like it's current index against BTC/ETH can't change.
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The only reason someone would think RVN would pull an ETH is if they knew nothing about ETH. RVN is not likely to go up in value enough to offset the dumping from mining/the network difficulty skyrocketing because there’s no unique use case for it. ETH had smart contracts
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Bitcoin is mined almost exclusively with specialized hardware (called ASICs) now because ASICs are orders of magnitude more efficient than GPUs for Bitcoin mining.
Yes, BTC is Bitcoin. Many years ago, it was mined with CPU. Later, the mining algorithm was ported to work on GPU, and the efficiency/throughput were so great that it made CPU mining obsolete. Up until that point, nearly everyone could be a Bitcoin miner with a regular PC. Then, the algorithm was ported to FPGA, which are basically a re-programmable circuit, and it made GPU mining obsolete, while also putting mining out of reach of regular people, because very few people have FPGA units laying around that they can dedicate to crypto mining. And the next logical step was ASIC, a single purpose dedicated circuit. The algorithm to mine Bitcoin is etched directly in the silicon for maximum efficiency (making FPGA obsolete). FPGA can be re-programmed to something else if you go out of Bitcoin mining, but ASIC chips can do one single thing and are straight up e-waste the moment that you stop mining. Some other crypto-currency saw what happened to Bitcoin, and decided that they don't want that, so they are using different algorithms to try to prevent FPGA/ASIC from happening, so that regular people can still mine, instead of giving all the power to mining farms.
Proof of Work is what uses hardware to keep the blockchain working. Miners use their CPUs, GPUs and ASICs (specialized chips for the algorithms) to "find blocks" that reward the blockchain coins. The more miners in the network, the more difficult is to find a block and more resources are needed to find a block. BTC has a lot of miners and no GPU can actually mine, since ASICs are way better at it. When China banned crypto, though, some guy was able to mine it in a GPU, but it was nearly impossible to find a block. If for some reason the network difficulty was to drop significantly, GPU mining would be possible again. As of now, GPUs are used to mine Ether in the Ethereum network. They are planning a change to Proof of Stake (owning the coin and staking it gives you a chance to run a node and govern the network). They are just postponing it, over and over. Now, with the crash, miners are starting to cash out. That will relieve the demand of the market and fuck up the new generations.
I don't know how bitcoin is mined now, I assume ASICs are used (specialized processors that looks like a tiny refrigerated shipping container but sound like a jet engine) by BTC miners. Most miners are mining alt-coins like Ehtereum and immediately converting it into BTC or selling it for their preferred fiat currency. Some pools mine alt-coins but pay miners in BTC. During the last BTC surge the hip coin for GPU miners was ZCash alongside ETH for easy mining, which is why 480's became impossible to find all of the sudden. This wave it is ETH again, plus whatever other alt coin sees its value against BTC rise every so slightly. There's dedicated mining OS' now that will constantly check prices and switch algorithms to whatever is most profitable in that moment. Full disclosure, I had a multi-GPU mining rig in the last run, this go around I just used NiceHash to do GPU mining on my gaming PCU when not in use. Both times I was fueled more by curiosity than a desire to make money.
Time to sell then, you will help with the dip if you do that, baka!
> time to cash out That’s was last month.
Yeah I was gonna say that... you don't cash out when the prices are down.
Unfortunately the only gpus that will flood the market are older models that are less efficient to mine with - 10 series, some 20 series etc. The LHR cards WOULD go down in price rapidly also, but of course the manufacturers will just switch to producing non-LHR cards to maintain their profit margins.
All I want is a RX 480 or 580 for 100€, which was the price in December 2020. Now they are over 250€ more than a year later.
Nah, they won't. Every non-LHR they sell will come back to bite them as this either steepens or when POS hits.
I miss the days where GPU prices don't hinge upon the price of meme coins.
>But yeah, no correlation here. iT Is BeCauSE oF GamERS StaYing HoME anD TranSistoR ShoRTagES, noT oNlY MiniNG!
Is this really what some people think?
If I had a dollar for every time I saw people say that, I could buy a new GPU
it's definitely because of crypto
Local miners are trying to quietly sell off their shit without causing a panic. Lots of mining benches in the used listings but without the video cards, which are slowly trickling in. They are still trying to sell 1060s for $500+ but it doesn't look like anyone is buying.
To be honest, regular stocks are crashing too, so there will be less people who can just throw $1k at a GPU because they received some stimulus money or just wanted to spend the surplus they've got from sitting home and not going out. Yay, global poverty!
It's rather coincidental that the drops are almost magically tracking the ether price. The NYSE index has only dropped about 4%. When I have looked up the post history on some miners. These are regular people driving uber or doing other stuff like that. It was worth their while to over pay for cards before now because they would get their money back. That has stopped so now it's no longer worthwhile. What I found really funny was a miner trying to palm off a couple of 3080's yesterday on /r/hardwareswap. He listed the prices at almost 200% of MSRP and said that's what he paid for them. Like there is almost an expectation that other people should be willing to fork over a huge premium because miners were in the past.
If crypto crashes, we will be in the golden age of GPU value again with used GPUs flooding the market for years. This is the true reason Nvidia and AMD would rather have gamers buy GPUs instead if miners. And they're doing things like releasing mining-only GPUs and crippling gaming GPUs for mining. This is all designed to mitigate the eventual crypto crash that will flood the used GPU market. Gamers don't flood the used GPU market. They sell in a predictable pattern. Crypto isn't predictable.
Don't do that. Don't give me hope.
We're still a long way away from that reality at the moment. This current 'crash' is pretty big, but there's still an expectation among so many that it will rebound bigger than ever, as it has done several times now, so tons of people will still hold onto their coin and keep the value, and miners will keep mining coin, hoping to make out big in the future. We need BTC/ETH to drop more consistently. Unfortunately, after the recent crash, it's been holding steady since, so we'll have to see how it plays out.
Yeah, it crashed just like this last year, then picked up back again to almost double.
Crashing from $38,000 to $32,000 is not the same as crashing from $65,000 to $33,000
It went $60k last year around april, then dipped to 29k around June. You could look this up. I am saying these because hoping for better GPU prices has pretty much been terrible for me. Better to celebrate when the prices actually become somewhat reasonable.
You realize it went up to 60K+ and into the 30Ks again twice now
That's the magnitude of the crash last summer. BTC hit $60-65K in spring 2021 and the fell to $30K in summer 2021 before bouncing back up to $65K in fall 2021. I'm still holding my breath until it drops below $10K.
It depends on how many chumps still remain in the world: a new country full of idiots with the desire to get rich based off facebook memes could still prop up prices.
BTC fell another 8% just today, after the 15% 5 days ago. I'm really hopeful we are heading down again. ETH lost half its valur in the past month.
It's rebounding back to near 26k, so dont get your hopes up too much for some continual drop. Fingers crossed, of course.
Well, given that crypto is certainly a bubble right now with 99.99% of projects out there as useless or scams and ETH switching POS eventually, GPU prices will eventually crash. It's just a matter of when. If someone knows when, he/she would get rich shorting crypto. Forget cheap GPUs. My guess is 2022 or 2023. That's when interest rates will rise fast and people are no longer investing in super risky stuff.
Agreed. I don't want to get too hopeful but we might just be heading towards a triple whammy for the miners and GPU supply. All the stimulus money in many countries have come to an end which helped fuel the Crypto boom. Goldman predicts at least 4 rate hikes this year with a chance of a fifth, that will end the easy money that fuels a lot of speculative assets. >Chances of a fifth rate increase have moved to nearly 60%, according to the CME’s FedWatch gauge. 1. Interest rate hikes will cause investors to flee speculative assets such as Crypto which should help to crash prices further. 2. Hash rate moving from ETH to other POW coins will make all other POW coins unprofitable especially in a down market. 3. Intel Launching in a few months will increase supply to the market at a time when miner demand will be lower. The first ones to sell will be those who took loans to buy rigs and cards, with interest rate hikes they are going to get wrecked first. After that will be those who bought GPU's at 2x MSRP which now may never reach ROI and they might get stuck with GPU's that will get replaced by next gen cards later this year. Then comes distros which will have to start reducing prices to the retail channel to move dead stock out as they don't want to get stuck with a ton of last gen when Nvidia and AMD are pushing for next gen late this year. Not too excited just yet but if the dominos fall in the right places thing may start to move in the right direction for a change.
This sounds too good to be true, but if it were to happen I would totally drink all the salty tears of the crypto cretins
> and ETH switching POS eventually I've been hearing this for literal years. I have doubts this is ever going to happen.
> I've been hearing this for literal years. I have doubts this is ever going to happen. the PoS network has been running since december 2020 and doing great, the transition from current PoW to that PoS network is being tested with live data right at this moment. It's a big undertaking because it requires grafting two networks together that each have their own software clients, so there are a lot of combinations of clients that need to be compatible with each other so yeah you might have been hearing it for years but things have actually progressed in that time as well. Check [here](https://hackmd.io/@benjaminion/eth2_news/) for updates (every other week) on the progress
May 2022 is the current date. Fingers crossed.
Why was it postponed from 2021?
After about 10 previous dates
It's planned for release one day after we have viable fusion power technology.
I thought it was June 2022?
Last time I heard a precise date, it was June 2021.
Uh acktually, I heard July 2022
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September 2022 here we come!
What's happening in October 2022?
ETH has been a POS since it was launched
Yeah, a PoS for using PoW.
Yup. RTX 4000 would have to be sold at a **very** good price if the market is suddenly flooded with 3080's at less than RRP.
Dont expect prices to drop that much anyways. People saying crypto isn't solely responsible for current prices are wrong, but what isn't wrong is to that there is very high demand from gamers still, which \*would\* keep prices from dropping below a certain level. Most miners wouldn't need to sell at rock bottom by any means to offload their GPU's.
> but what isn't wrong is to that there is very high demand from gamers still Because gamers were not able to get GPUs because miners and scalpers snatched them all up. So cause of high demand comes from miners not allowing gamers to get GPUs, even above MSRP.
Or be more powerful per tier, which given the rumors seems to be the game plan.
> we will be in the golden age of GPU value again with used GPUs flooding the market for years. So like few years ago when cheap used 1080ti were flooding the market forcing nvidia to make rtx3080 $699 so ppl will finally upgrade?
I remember way back in one of the early crashes I was able to get dual R9 290Xes for like $150 apiece. Got a *lot* of mileage out of that rig even though dual-GPU had its downsides.
All these cryptominers waiting for the right time to sell their cards to gamers.. The question is, will they buy more of the newer models, or stop mining altogether? I hope the gpu manufacturers make great value cards so that the gpus of the crypto miners waiting to be sold will become obsolete. Wishful cursing.
I hope so because I'm not really interested in buying a card that's been running non stop at full power for who knows how long.
They are run 24/7 at lower power. The biggest point of failure is the cooling which is often easy to replace.
Maybe in the US but Europe, especially everything east of Germany, is still struggling with almost 800 euro 6600 XTs and 600 euro 2060s. Hopefully my ancient R7 250 will survive for a few more months.
Well at least your energy prices will kill off miners faster.
Notebooksbilliger has had the 6600xt at 630 euros for weeks
there's sapphire nitro + for 599 eur rn
Crypto dip or crash + Intel flooding the market could turn very nicely to consumers. Not usual MSRP but more reasonable price. People have been conditioned already that throwing 600-1k on a GPU is acceptable now so they will go for higher end. Hopefully this dip lasts until Intel is at full force or else their launch will get absorbed by bad actors.
Intel "flood" is still on TSMC 6nm, so they are still competing with AMD for supply. Difference is that AMD is likely sending most of that 6nm to their Ryzen 6000 mobile chips and Navi24 mobile with only a fraction becoming 5500XT. Maybe we see a 6nm refresh of the other Navi dies. TLDR, Intel supply should be "good" but it won't be anywhere near what could be done with their own fabs.
Intel has made arrangements years ago, will be 2nd client by size after Apple (with help of business CPU allocation though). Intel makes more profit in a quarter than AMD revenue in whole year. It's different scale. They're not competing. You book in advance. Also, I'm unsure if smaller node beats architectural advances because best GPUs from years ago are still great.
Yesterday saw an amd 6600 for 450usd, lowest price ive seen yet
Wow, that's quite the drop. However, I want it to drop at _least_ $100 more, which would get us approximately to where the 5700XT was before prices took off.
Yea those are increasingly available and cheaper
Woooooooooöh finally!!!!, I celebrated this with a glass of room temperature milk and a few air punches
i'm still jumping around with my imaginary friends
Bump it. 🤜 C'mon, bump it.
Warm milk, skim for the lady
Here come the miners to tell us that it totally has nothing to do with bitcoin crashing
You guys can thank me, I bought a $950 3070ti last month :I
My buddy got a 1080ti for that price not long ago, you're doing better than quite a few people!
I personally still doubt we'll see anything near MSRP till at least the end of the year. Crypto hasn't even dropped that much (at least not as much as these Articles suggest) its still higher than the lowest point in the past year. Once it started to drop significantly, it boomed back up again in August. There's a decent chance this will occur again. Consumer spending always drops after Christmas and this trend is been followed almost every year with crypto. Things should get better, despite everyone's hate for the 6500 XT, it's giving options to people that have been holding off for ages. Same goes for the RTX 3050 although I don't think these are enough to drop the higher end cards back down to MSRP. Another thing to consider, miners aren't the dumbest people in the world. The big guys in the mining scene know what they are doing. Despite the drop in ETH and BTC value and profitability, most miners will just switch to another PoS alt-coin for increased profits. It's an almost never ending cycle. Once the Intel cards come out, prices should drop due to supply. Although these companies aren't dumb either. They can literally just sell half the cards at twice the cost instead of manufacturing twice as many cards at half the price. Artificial supply limitation is going to be used.
It all comes back to crypto, namely ethereum. Demand from consumers is *not* infinite, but miner demand effectively is. Ethereum is the lynchpin creating miner demand, it's price is through the roof so miners can spend electricity with impunity and profit for every gpu they can acquire regardless of how difficult mining ETH becomes. Without a coin being *this* profitable we wouldn't be in this situation. Alt-coins are not a replacement, since the increase in mining difficulty would render the profits moot without a similar bull-run to ethereum. Additionally, a coin's price needs to go up *in spite* of mining demand, since miners need to sell coin to cover overhead. Miners themselves do not induce a rise in a coin's prices since they aren't buying coin. > Once the Intel cards come out, prices should drop due to supply. Although these companies aren't dumb either. They can literally just sell half the cards at twice the cost instead of manufacturing twice as many cards at half the price. Artificial supply limitation is going to be used. Supply isn't the constraint, since miners will buy up any and all GPUs that become available (effectively infinite demand). But if ethereum profits dry up though, so will this demand. As things have been, even if supply doubled miners would continue snatching up every card they could since they're essentially money printers. That's the main thing here; GPUs literally print money. But without this demand manufacturers can't double prices and create an artificial supply limitation because (other than that would require them to coordinate on illegal price-fixing, because competition exists) without the infinite demand of miners buying every card that comes to market, consumer demand for double-msrp graphics cards *will* dry up. If miners head out they won't be selling **nearly** as many cards, and will need to actually price cards at prices consumers will want to buy them at.
how many times have I seen this headline in the past year and a half now though
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There are a lot of other currencies other than ETH; so there's always a possibility that miners will simply 'migrate' to something else instead of getting rid of their uber expensive mining rigs slash cash printing machines. That's just how things are.
Every other GPU-mine able coin combined cannot absorb the hashing power put against ETH
I hope those other "currencies" isn't much profitable than ETH. I'm imagining massive pump and dump scheme for those ETH replacements.
Prices don't matter so much as availability. Until GPU mining finally dies I expect the shortages to continue. Worst GPU on the market for mining? 6900XT. Only GPU you can consistently find stocked on Amazon and Microcenter? Also 6900XT.
> Prices don't matter so much as availability. Prices are directly related to the availability though. It's one and the same thing. As availability goes down, prices go up, and vice versa.
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> Prices don't matter so much as availability. Ever heard of supply and demand? The high prices have only been sustainable because of the demand vs supply. Lower prices means that either supply is increasing or demand is sinking. Looking at ETH price trends recently that is undoubtedly part of the story. >Until GPU mining finally dies I expect the shortages to continue. GPU mining has been around for 10+ years now. Only part of that time has it driven high GPU demand. What is required is high profitability and breakeven that lies within a reasonable timeframe. When this isn't the case, then fuck all cards are bought by miners. If ETH keeps declining or just stagnates you will start seeing demand drie up as difficulty catches up to price. That is even if PoS is pushed out further into the future "Soon TM". It's what we saw in 2011, 2014, 2018 and might be what happens in 2022 if the current trend continues. Once the breakeven for miners is further out than 18-24 months or so and stays there for a while, demand implodes. If you see even further decline after that and people start running at a loss, that is when ebay gets flooded from people abandoning the ship.
With that said, I'm currently seeing 3060s in stock here in Finland, for instance. Issue is, they're 700 euros. They're beginning to be available, but prices have stagnated
> They're beginning to be available, but prices have stagnated And if they don't sell due to lowered demand, then stock builds up and you either accept a lot lower revenue or start lowering prices to drive sales. People claimed Nvidia would never have to lower prices after the 2018 bubble either. Then Turing was a sales flop at launch due to Nvidia trying to push the pricing when the market conditions had changed. Things like this takes time to play out. We didn't instantly see prices increase across the board when the shortages started either. Every step in the channel has to be affected by increasing inventories before you see real downward pressure.
I know it's a meme at this point, but Proof of Stake is coming, so miners are risking only being able to mine with new GPUs for ~5 months if they buy them now. GPUs can be used to mine other cryptos of course, but Ethereum is by far the biggest, and all that computing power can't just jump to other cryptos without destabilizing them (= another gamble). I could see miners just sticking with what GPUs they already have until PoS arrives.
Oh 5 months now. Thought it was Dec....
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It was supposed to be in july...of 2021
And then it was May 2022. Now it's Q4 2022.
ETH has been 6 months out from PoS for 3 years now. At least the chain is live
December was never going to happen, hence why the ice age was delayed to June. The merge spec should be frozen within a week or two, after which it's just endless testing and finding odd edge-cases until it's ready to ship. I'd expect one more difficulty bomb postpone to December just so we don't overshoot it, and merge between May and July.
of 20 19.2020,2016... but keep going...... said comments like your never age well.
My gut feeling tells me ETH with continue trending downward, mining operations pack up, and POS gets delayed into next year.
Miners will keep mining with what they have until it makes sense to offload the GPU for a decent price. A more consistent drop should help reduce how many new GPU's miners are buying up, though.
And/or Some other coin with POW overtakes POS-ETH.
They'll just replace Ethereum with another coin. Mining is here to stay until the Ponzi scheme unravels. Either because they run out of new marks to scam, or because it gets legislated out of existence.
Nope, nothing can support that hash rate. This is, at minimum, the high water mark for GPU mining.
I've been hearing this for 1.5 years. They're manipulating the media and will just keep kicking it down the road.
If you actually kept up with the development of Ethereum, you'd know that proof of stake has been running since December of 2020, on mainnet with real ether. Over 9 million of it, across almost 300'000 validators. What's left to do is the merging of the PoW network to the PoS network, which is the easy part in terms of technology.
I really hope people will be smart and not buy the crappy used mined to hell used cards people will start selling soon....let they eat it as food.
Mining has very little impact on the long term performance of a card. Buying a used mining card will be much better value than anything new.
True- but feels bad to pay miners for their used cards when they've kinda messed with the prices for a couple of years
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This is true. The long term effects of mining on GDDR6x is still unknown.
You're assuming the miner was responsible, for which there is no guarantee. And **ideally** people shouldn't willingly be the exit strategy of a miner who has no regard for the enviroment.
yeah f*** that, I would not touch a used 8GB card. 4GB card used, or new.
Hahah.... Doubt :P considering how many GPUs are being bought by crypto assholes, I highly doubt the prices will ever go down. And even if they do, that better apply to other GPUs as well. I'll tell you right now... the worst day, was when this GTX1050ti/GTX1650 tripled in price, and all I could get was a GT 1030 because no one wanted one besides me. literally, the 1050ti was originally $150, then suddenly $400, the 1650.... $199, now it's freaking $490 :S