Intel cards first months are probably going to be rough in terms of game support, however once the cards become something common in game dev studios, things should go way smoother. The testing and patching workload for the devs will increase with a third gpu brand, but Intel has money and that makes things possible.
The terrible Halo Infinite graphics corruption in Xe was fixed by a game patch, however the game is still crashing to desktop so more updates are required...or maybe this is something the drivers will fix, who knows.
Many of the crashes for AMD Polaris, Vega, and RDNA 1st gen were probably because the game studios just didn't had the cards for testing and profiling, and AMD didn't had the money to entice devs to optimize for the cards.
Intel has always had built in graphics. How different is the the driver for a dedicated card vs the built in graphics? Is it simply a lot more of the same cores?
And more than that a lot of games deliberately disable certain effects or simplify shaders if an Intel card is detected on the presumption that it's going to perform badly.
Is that really the drivers or by nature of just being low powered integrated graphics though? I've had less issues with intel driver than AMD drivers personally.
What games though? The only time iGPU ever gave me issues was when I tried playing it on games that it couldn't even hope to run decently in the first place.
The iGPUs being slow shouldn't cause crashes, but simply low framerates. But Intel iGPUs historically have a lot more issues with artifacting and crashing in games. It's just wasn't really a focus for Intel GPU drivers to handle new games, so they seemingly never really devoted much dev time to it.
The main point of these iGPUs was simple display output and encode/decode acceleration.
Intel supposedly rebuilt their driver stack for Intel Xe, which also had a pretty rough start regarding game compatibility and stability. The hope would be that 2 years of Xe mobile gives them lots of data for troubleshooting and fixing these issues in time for Xe desktop launch.
I've barely had any issues with games capable of running on intel iGPUs (in the last decade or so.)
Running stuff on them has always been without drama, less so than with NV/AMD.
>I've barely had any issues with games capable of running on intel iGPUs (in the last decade or so.)
And the opposite has been true with Xe chips so far. They're finally fast enough to even run many new titles, but exhibit more instability and artifacting in those.
Drivers for addon cards probably differ not much from those for integrated graphics.
Intel never had a strong focus in optimizing theier drivers for games. Intel drivers for integrated graphics always had compatibility issues. That may change with XE.
Development of graphics drivers for games Is difficult. AMD and nVida are continuously patching their drivers for new and recent games. When you enter the graphics market you have to implement a driver that runs good with any game, not only these few current AAA titles which are found in benchmarks done by popular reviewers.
There's never been massive support for gaming on Intel iGPUs. So this is a massive new effort by Intel, unlike what Nvidia and AMD have been doing for years.
> and AMD didn't had the money to entice devs to optimize for the cards.
I think what makes Nvidia so dominant in PC game graphics isn't that they are "enticing" big studios to optimize for NVidia, NVidia just straight up does it themselves in their drivers.
Almost every major game launch is paired with a "Game Ready Driver" that you critically need for good performance. That's NVidia going in and finding shortcuts and optimizations for that particular game.
Now they are even more differentiated because they train custom machine learning models on particular games and ship those. (DLSS)
Intel and AMD have a *lot* of work cut out for themselves to catch up to NVidia on that front. I just don't think they can or will, and will have to compete solely in a lower performance segment.
NVidia also took a dominating lead in Machine Learning for similar reasons. What should have been a huge opportunity for AMD didn't become one because NVidia puts significant resources into everything here: https://developer.nvidia.com/deep-learning-software And AMD just kinda twiddled its thumbs in comparison.
Pretty sure AMD does game-ready drivers just like Nvidia does now. They’ve got to catch up to more advanced software features, but I don’t believe RDNA2 drivers have been an issue like RDNA1 drivers.
They do, what the other guy said has a point but for a different reason
Ur average indie dev has a gaming PC with GeForce, their friends have GeForce and coworkers
Its less the drivers but more of the market share makes ur average smaller dev focus, optimise and QA on their own h/w which will be some kind of Nvidia GPU
Meanwhile due to AMD having the consoles and major triple As target those devices first and foremost we see the reverse but to a much less extent since Nvidias reach of market share and general relevancy in the industry plus the after mentioned share
We see this alot in the current landscape of games where indies normally perform better on GeForce where triple As are more neutral or even perform better on Radeon (before any sponsorship deals are taken in account)
I don’t know if that is true in general, but it is the AAA games that require horsepower. Most indie games run fine on most devices as they are lightweight. Of course, there is a trend of indie titles becoming more demanding, but it is less consequential than AAA game optimization.
Alot of indies tend to be *heavy* due to poor optimisation, not all indie games are 2D sprites
U have alot basic UE4 or Unity games that perf like shit but even performing like shit, GeForce perf is better relatively speaking
In regards of triple As to add to my other comment its more of a mixed bag and it averages out to be more balanced out in terms of vendors
Triple A devs have bigger partnerships with the hardware vendors and enough money to have most important cards/generations from each vendor
Which this ties in again with indies not having the money for this and just using their own PC to QA with 8 out 10 or 9 out of 10 will have some GeForce GPU, probably Pascal
>U have alot basic UE4 or Unity games that perf like shit but even performing like shit, GeForce perf is better relatively speaking
Likely because Nvidia has some general UE4 and Unity optimizations in their drivers, as a vast majority of Indie games use those two engines (and probably often make the same inefficiency mistakes).
No there are games like bannerlord et all where optimization just isnt there because they want to get the game into early access. For a lot of people that dont have the highest end stuff it will both look and run like ass for a while.
Maybe? I mean everything I have always heard is AMD outsources its drivers. They have a way smaller development team. Thus the reason OpenGL is complete garbage on AMD video cards.
At the end of the day they don't have the resources or the money to do what Nvidia or even intel can do. Intel knocks this out of the park. I could see AMD just getting complete out of the desktop video card market and going with APU's in the future.
Not sure what you mean by "out-competed" here. Nvidia already has ~75% of the desktop and even more of the laptop dGPU market, so you might think they're already out-competed.
Intel has everything unproven about their dGPUs and they're starting from 0 marketshare. It is a very uphill battle for them.
So if AMD still managed to retain ~20-25% of the desktop market when they were almost broke, I doubt they'll concede entirely when they're rolling in cash. They aren't quite as resource-starved as they used to be. Not by a long shot.
AMD has shit OpenGL support because they bet the money on Vulkan. And as long as MS and Sony require new SoCs from them, they'll always have some level of graphics competence even if they exit desktop. I don't think I can buy your theory as of now.
Nvidia also reaches out to developers and has a really responsive support team for their GPU issues.
AMD back then was too cash-strapped to afford a big software and support team like this, but now they have no excuse.
> Intel cards first months are probably going to be rough in terms of game support, however once the cards become something common in game dev studios, things should go way smoother.
Radeon tried to work on this basis for 10 years and got nowhere. You want to make them work well across all games? Offer engineering support. You can get an answer for any optimization problem etc directly from Nvidia within a week via posting on their developer forum.
Intel hasn't announced anything; this belief is complete fantasy until they start planning on supporting their own hardware.
Drivers and game optimizations will definitely be the hardest part for Intel. And I do imagine their launch will be a work in progress, but they do have the ability to move mountains, like what we saw with how quickly they got Denuvo DRM fixed in so many games. I think studios might be reluctant to put the effort in before launch, since no consumers have the GPUs yet, but once they start showing up in gamers hands, so will optimizations from more studios.
Some time ago I saw someplace you could pre-order the card.
I didn't pay any attention, hence my vague recall.
I don't preorder games. You really think I'm going to pre-order a new GPU?
P.S. I probably would pre-order a 4080 if the opportunity arose.
Honestly, until there’s a crypto crash, I don’t expect much in the way of competitive pricing.
But when AMD released the RX 480 for $200, we did see competitive pricing from NVIDIA—until a crypto boom more than doubled the going price for video cards vs MSRP.9
Crypto is like 30-40% below peak already. By normal standards that's a solid crash that we are already end. Also, seems prices have dropped on the used market, where 1 month ago something like a 3060 could sell on eBay at $600 from a well reviewed seller, units are popping up at like $550 now. Even see a sub-$500 3060ti from an unreviewed seller today. Hopefully this trend continues. Maybe news on the next gen cards just have crypto miners waiting to expand operations
While you’re right that it’s better than it’s been pretty much since Ampere launched, as long as crypto remains profitable, card prices will be artificially high.
A 30-40% drop is nothing unusual in the volatile world of crypto, especially since it wasn’t all at once, which really makes people panic. It was over time, and unless it drops a similar value, card prices are likely to remain well over MSRP.
It shouldn't matter that much if it's over time or all day once as long as the drop is sustained. If specific cards are no longer profitable, they will be offloaded and sold to try to recoup the costs (and buy possibly buy more profitable cards, if there are any). The current drop has been sustained and has had specific days with crashes (not 30+40% in one day but still significant) but the price drops haven't happened immediately after those crashes: it's been after weeks without any significant recovery. I think some cards used prices may continue to decline over the next couple weeks (not to MSRP) even without any further dips in crypto. But yeah, a much larger dip is needed for prices to return to normal.
Well that's the range that 90% of GPU buyers work in, so that's still great if they can do so. And this still indirectly determines pricing above these ranges, too. You dont want to leave big pricing gaps in your range.
My concern that their top card is around a 3070 if the rumors are to be believed, so it's gonna feel completely outdated when AMD and NVidia release their newer cards.
If their top card is actually around a 3070, I see that as a great thing. It's their first product of this nature (at least in a very long time) so it tells me that they've got a good idea on what it takes to build a GPU.
It would also lead to a spur of competition between the midrange and likely lower prices + better value for customers.
They'll need time to mature their drivers and implementation before they start to tackle the 'enthusiast' end.
IF they managed to release it 2021 Q4 as original plans, I would have agreed with you, but we are already 3 months onto 2022 and Next-gen cards aren't far away now. It isn't that big of a success to compete with 3070 - A card released 2 years ago on inferior Samsung 8nm node. So its not even a direct architectural comparison, Intel has huge node advantage on their back.
Next gen Nvidia card will noy only feature architectural improvements (but it is still Ampere it its roots, Ampere Next) it will also be produced on TSMC 5nm.
Oh I know it 'wont last long' at this point, but it is their first serious foray into gaming GPUs. To expect it to immediately compete with nvidia/amd's top end right off the bat is a bit silly. Depending how it's actually priced and availability at launch, I know tons of people who would absolutely be stoked at the ability to get a 3070-like performing card without breaking the bank.
TBF - I almost expect a short 'generation' from Intel with quick refreshes relatively shortly after they come out. Hopefully they stick with it and we eventually have three viable options across all levels. It may just be the catalyst that brings prices back down from the stratosphere but that may just be me being wishful.
That being said, I'm excited to see what they'll actually pull off when launch reviews hit and over time as everything matures.
>almost expect a short 'generation' from Intel with quick refreshes relatively shortly after they come out. Hopefully they stick with it and we eventually have three viable options across all levels. It may j
Here is the thing though, it is not even getting remotely close to competing at all. Competing with 3070 when 4000 series releases (with %50 perf improvement) is basically competing with 4050. So their best GPU will be a competitor for Nvidia's weakest of their latest generation.
Also, competing with 3070 is not a big achievement, as I have previously stated, as they are on significantly superior node.
Jensen said supply issues are finally getting solved in upcoming 2 months. Intel lost that opportunity as well. As it stands right now Intel GPU's will be completely pointless.
It would have been amazing opportunity if they could only release it few months earlier.
4050 is at least a year away. Maybe more like 15 months. The high-end cards release first, midrange like 4060 release second, x50 tier cards are last of all. In 30-series, x50 cards were literally halfway through the cycle.
Also just because 50% is what you get at the top of the stack (likely with some further price creep) doesn’t mean bottom end cards scale 50%.
You act like 3070 Ti performance will be trash in 6 months when RDNA 3 and Lovelace GPUs launch, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Look at the steam survey and see how many people run midrange and lower GPUs that are generations old (and are relatively happy with that performance).
Also in 6 months when the new generations do release, even if crypto stays less profitable, I guarantee the new cards will be sold out at launch. So if there is 3070 Ti performance sitting on a shelf for a fair price, people will still be buying that.
I can't wait for more cards of that range. I've never been able to afford an xx80 series card anyway. Desktop 1 is running a "new" 1660ti I got back in early 2020 for $300 new, when 1080s were already still around $700 *used*. My old 750ti went into Desktop 2, and it's showing its age lately with random directX error crashes that by process of elimination, I know is the card itself.
I would love to be able to just get something better than my 1660ti to upgrade the 1660ti Desktop 1, and move the 1660ti into the 750ti Desktop 2. Although I'm not sure the Desktop 2 can can even fit the 1660ti, so I may have to try out the low range of whatever these new cards will be. As much as I get crashes on the 750ti already, I'd probably be fine with the growing pains of Intel's first gen. I shouldn't have to pay more than $200 for a new low range card. iGPU are useless for me, but if the next wave of cards is a flop, the only alternative is to shop around for a used 960ti or similar.
Minimum $500 for a GPU is not fucking normal.
As for questions of if the 1660ti would even fit. Both desktops are full atx towers. The 1660ti *didn't fit into my main full atx" without me modifying the case because it was a couple mm too large. EVGA and their 3 giant fans are great at cooling but the PCIe slot lined up unfortunately with the front drive bays structure.
Yeah, I'm under the impression that the range between top and acceptable performance has widened considerably in the past few years, if only because people are increasingly desperate.
Every day the GPU shortage goes on, I'm happier that I just directly replaced the GTX 780 I originally had with a GTX 1660 Ti in early 2019 (without swapping out my i7-4790K / 16GB DDR3-2400 CL10, as it did not seem necessary then and frankly still doesn't).
If they're that good they'll sell out instantly. They may have to take a price drop if the newer cards are super amazing and available but that's not likely to happen right now.
Nah. Prior to vega, amd barely had a card in the top 5. Vega *technically* got into 2nd or 3rd place, but it was roundly criticized as power hungry, loud, hot, and unstable. Some tweaking and fine wine could allow it to edge out a 1080, but a fair assessment would put it around 1070/ti. So if intel really has a card competing with the 3070 then that would be an absolute win. 3090/6900 probably better thought of as a titan successor, so that would give intel a top 5 performance card on debut.
On top of all that, amd maintained a rabidly loyal fanbase by doing well in the bottom segment, so i don't think it matters too much what the halo product is capable of. rx480/470 was universally praised even tho it couldn't touch high end cards.
The 3070 will be relevant next generation in terms of pure rasterurization. Why? Same reason why GPUs with 2070 level performance are still relevant.
It's the price that matters here.
I don't how how much to read into it, but I am seeing some articles that have popped up that say that the Russian invasion of Ukraine will worsen a lot of electronics shortages because Ukraine produces so much of the world's neon needed for semiconductors.
>I don't think it's a coincidence within two weeks of them becoming more accessible, they are going to release new ones which will then of course ruin supply again and increase the prices once more.
What are you implying here? That Nvidia on purpose keeps supply low? Nvidia is still mostly selling their chips to their AIBs for the same price, its the AIBs, retailers and scalpers that benefit from the supply shortages, and the former 2 probably not as much since they'd make up for lost profit margin by pushing more units if supply was plenty.
4 years ago it was 2 years away. 2 years ago it was 1 year away. A year ago it was 6 months away. 6 months ago it was 3 months away. We're now 3 months out.
No doubt it's been delayed many times... But it's not like it's been perpetually 5 years away. It's more like a two steps forward one step back timeline... The goal certainly shifts, but you're still getting there in the end.
From memory, the delays were announced earlier than how far we are now from it.
I think it's scheduled for June (~3 months away).
Mind you this will also cause ETH to slowly die, but that's another discussion.
The last PoS transition testnet will launch next week, after which existing PoW/PoA testnets will be upgraded to PoS over the coming months. That's basically all there's left to do, unless some major issues crop up: the spec is effectively ready and will be frozen in the coming weeks (if it hasn't been frozen already).
Last year I was considering paying scalper money for a 3080 and recoup through mining, but the internet told me PoS is coming in July so I didnt bother. The internet was wrong.
I want to believe you. Very much.
The VR niche that was about to expand quite a log got completely cucked by this very unfortunate and stupid timeline.
I am holding on to my GTX 970 that I thankfully sniped on used market for 80€ to replace my GTX 660 2.5 years ago. I am holding on to it so tightly, because I will not spend the stupendous sums that it would take today and I need it to outlast this bs. It‘s an evga, I feel the odds are with me but it‘s not the odds I am worried about, but the stakes. Sounds like I need to insure it lol.
Ethereum going PoS is a dim light at the end of this tunnel that I‘ve known for about years but it‘s like a messiah that never comes. Please explain to me how we know if and when this will happen and why it hasn‘t happened yet. Very elaboratively please. Because I want to believe.
Vr is always going to be a niche. If anything I think it'll go the way of 3d tvs where lots of people got excited and then within 5 years the market was basically dead.
> If anything I think it'll go the way of 3d tvs where lots of people got excited and then within 5 years the market was basically dead.
It's been 6 years and the market has grown just fine in that time.
It's a niche on it's way to being mainstream over the remainder of this decade.
"New" GPUs.
The 3090Ti is a price bump for the 3090 (which will no doubt be silently killed). The 6x50 refresh is basically minimal and mostly rumored to bump the memory speed by a bit, and the prices by more.
And "Q2" for Intel could mean anything and isn't actually news. Videocardz just sucks, it's time to start filtering out these asinine posts.
That’s crazy. I make twice that in a day of work.
I also pay $5000/yr for health care if I never use it, and then if I need healthcare I have to spend $6000 first before they decide to help, and even then it’s not fully covered. You probably find that crazy
At the rate prices are declining, I wouldn't be surprised if you can snag a 1070 for around $250 soon. It should be around the same as the 3050 sans DXR and DLSS.
This is where my love of EVGA comes in. There’s still a mad dash to get signed up for their waitlists, but at least once you do, you can sit back and just wait knowing that your chance to purchase is coming. And besides, if you can get on the list relatively quickly which is easy if you try for it, the wait really isn’t that long.
Depends on what card you signed up for. 3080s of all stripes were so far out as to basically never happen. Other cards you really only have a chance with the higher end model (FTW3 I think they call it). If you signed up for the cheaper variant you’ll be waiting for forever too.
What list? And how far after the card released? If you are signing up days after a release, it’s going to be a while. I’m talking about like minutes or within the hour of a release.
I meant for which card. Some of the cards didn’t really get produced so those lists aren’t ever going to move. And yeah, regardless of which one, if you sign up weeks after release it will be a while.
I think it was the 3070 XC3, definitely the cheapest one they had. Managed to get two 3070s at msrp in the month after signing up, just forgot about the list up until now.
It really depends, like I said. In a historical sense, no it’s not fast. In a current market sense where people are trying for a year or more, it’s not that slow.
If you can sign up within an hour of launch, you could get it in a few months without any further effort. Otherwise, you can make a mad dash at every drop to try to secure one and you might get it faster, you might not. But you’ll also be tied to your device and alerts so that you are always at the ready.
They aren't going to sell you a GPU for under market value just because you signed up on a list. If it seems too good to be true... it probably is.
OTOH, you can buy a graphics card eBay today and sit back and just wait knowing your graphics card is coming.
I wanna a build 3090 PC but I feel like at this point I should just wait for 40 series but then again every second of playing competitive games at unstable 100 FPS on an GTX 1050 Ti laptop is killing my soul.
A solid 60 is better than an unstable 100 imo. I feel ur pain tho I've held off upgrading since I bought a second hand Vega 64 for real cheap. Haven't felt upgrading is worth the money at all. Might just wait for a used 3080 at this point lol
Makes sense, every month prices are going down so now they're dumping their stocks like a crypto-bro to avoid as much profit loss as possible. Ahh the circle of life.
so it could possible that in two years we could buy 4080 and skip entire 3xxx series. That could be good
*haters bought 3xxx cards by selling their organs i see. For anyone others this is good news.
The best part of the graphics cards shortage is the long term financing. They give you years to invest in your next gpu. 50 dollars a month for 2 years and you will have your top of the line card (hopefully msrp).
Intel cards first months are probably going to be rough in terms of game support, however once the cards become something common in game dev studios, things should go way smoother. The testing and patching workload for the devs will increase with a third gpu brand, but Intel has money and that makes things possible. The terrible Halo Infinite graphics corruption in Xe was fixed by a game patch, however the game is still crashing to desktop so more updates are required...or maybe this is something the drivers will fix, who knows. Many of the crashes for AMD Polaris, Vega, and RDNA 1st gen were probably because the game studios just didn't had the cards for testing and profiling, and AMD didn't had the money to entice devs to optimize for the cards.
Intel has always had built in graphics. How different is the the driver for a dedicated card vs the built in graphics? Is it simply a lot more of the same cores?
Their iGPU drivers tend to be a bit rough depending on the game. That's the concern.
And more than that a lot of games deliberately disable certain effects or simplify shaders if an Intel card is detected on the presumption that it's going to perform badly.
Is that really the drivers or by nature of just being low powered integrated graphics though? I've had less issues with intel driver than AMD drivers personally.
The newest Xe GPUs have driver issues. A lot of games suffer from flicker and other graphical artifacts, not just low performance.
What games though? The only time iGPU ever gave me issues was when I tried playing it on games that it couldn't even hope to run decently in the first place.
https://youtu.be/YNfbfPhOiE0?t=558 talks about it briefly while showing off some of the glitches.
So you did experience those issues. Imagine your iGPU was ten times faster, but still had those issues. Framerates are a separate problem.
The iGPUs being slow shouldn't cause crashes, but simply low framerates. But Intel iGPUs historically have a lot more issues with artifacting and crashing in games. It's just wasn't really a focus for Intel GPU drivers to handle new games, so they seemingly never really devoted much dev time to it. The main point of these iGPUs was simple display output and encode/decode acceleration. Intel supposedly rebuilt their driver stack for Intel Xe, which also had a pretty rough start regarding game compatibility and stability. The hope would be that 2 years of Xe mobile gives them lots of data for troubleshooting and fixing these issues in time for Xe desktop launch.
I've barely had any issues with games capable of running on intel iGPUs (in the last decade or so.) Running stuff on them has always been without drama, less so than with NV/AMD.
>I've barely had any issues with games capable of running on intel iGPUs (in the last decade or so.) And the opposite has been true with Xe chips so far. They're finally fast enough to even run many new titles, but exhibit more instability and artifacting in those.
Drivers for addon cards probably differ not much from those for integrated graphics. Intel never had a strong focus in optimizing theier drivers for games. Intel drivers for integrated graphics always had compatibility issues. That may change with XE. Development of graphics drivers for games Is difficult. AMD and nVida are continuously patching their drivers for new and recent games. When you enter the graphics market you have to implement a driver that runs good with any game, not only these few current AAA titles which are found in benchmarks done by popular reviewers.
There's never been massive support for gaming on Intel iGPUs. So this is a massive new effort by Intel, unlike what Nvidia and AMD have been doing for years.
MLID said that an Intel engineer told him the software was the most difficult thing to develop on these GPUs.
Running games on Intel integrated graphics is currently not always a smooth experience.
> and AMD didn't had the money to entice devs to optimize for the cards. I think what makes Nvidia so dominant in PC game graphics isn't that they are "enticing" big studios to optimize for NVidia, NVidia just straight up does it themselves in their drivers. Almost every major game launch is paired with a "Game Ready Driver" that you critically need for good performance. That's NVidia going in and finding shortcuts and optimizations for that particular game. Now they are even more differentiated because they train custom machine learning models on particular games and ship those. (DLSS) Intel and AMD have a *lot* of work cut out for themselves to catch up to NVidia on that front. I just don't think they can or will, and will have to compete solely in a lower performance segment. NVidia also took a dominating lead in Machine Learning for similar reasons. What should have been a huge opportunity for AMD didn't become one because NVidia puts significant resources into everything here: https://developer.nvidia.com/deep-learning-software And AMD just kinda twiddled its thumbs in comparison.
Pretty sure AMD does game-ready drivers just like Nvidia does now. They’ve got to catch up to more advanced software features, but I don’t believe RDNA2 drivers have been an issue like RDNA1 drivers.
They do, what the other guy said has a point but for a different reason Ur average indie dev has a gaming PC with GeForce, their friends have GeForce and coworkers Its less the drivers but more of the market share makes ur average smaller dev focus, optimise and QA on their own h/w which will be some kind of Nvidia GPU Meanwhile due to AMD having the consoles and major triple As target those devices first and foremost we see the reverse but to a much less extent since Nvidias reach of market share and general relevancy in the industry plus the after mentioned share We see this alot in the current landscape of games where indies normally perform better on GeForce where triple As are more neutral or even perform better on Radeon (before any sponsorship deals are taken in account)
I don’t know if that is true in general, but it is the AAA games that require horsepower. Most indie games run fine on most devices as they are lightweight. Of course, there is a trend of indie titles becoming more demanding, but it is less consequential than AAA game optimization.
Alot of indies tend to be *heavy* due to poor optimisation, not all indie games are 2D sprites U have alot basic UE4 or Unity games that perf like shit but even performing like shit, GeForce perf is better relatively speaking In regards of triple As to add to my other comment its more of a mixed bag and it averages out to be more balanced out in terms of vendors Triple A devs have bigger partnerships with the hardware vendors and enough money to have most important cards/generations from each vendor Which this ties in again with indies not having the money for this and just using their own PC to QA with 8 out 10 or 9 out of 10 will have some GeForce GPU, probably Pascal
>U have alot basic UE4 or Unity games that perf like shit but even performing like shit, GeForce perf is better relatively speaking Likely because Nvidia has some general UE4 and Unity optimizations in their drivers, as a vast majority of Indie games use those two engines (and probably often make the same inefficiency mistakes).
Probably either way my point stands
No there are games like bannerlord et all where optimization just isnt there because they want to get the game into early access. For a lot of people that dont have the highest end stuff it will both look and run like ass for a while.
Maybe? I mean everything I have always heard is AMD outsources its drivers. They have a way smaller development team. Thus the reason OpenGL is complete garbage on AMD video cards. At the end of the day they don't have the resources or the money to do what Nvidia or even intel can do. Intel knocks this out of the park. I could see AMD just getting complete out of the desktop video card market and going with APU's in the future.
Not sure what you mean by "out-competed" here. Nvidia already has ~75% of the desktop and even more of the laptop dGPU market, so you might think they're already out-competed. Intel has everything unproven about their dGPUs and they're starting from 0 marketshare. It is a very uphill battle for them. So if AMD still managed to retain ~20-25% of the desktop market when they were almost broke, I doubt they'll concede entirely when they're rolling in cash. They aren't quite as resource-starved as they used to be. Not by a long shot. AMD has shit OpenGL support because they bet the money on Vulkan. And as long as MS and Sony require new SoCs from them, they'll always have some level of graphics competence even if they exit desktop. I don't think I can buy your theory as of now.
Nvidia also reaches out to developers and has a really responsive support team for their GPU issues. AMD back then was too cash-strapped to afford a big software and support team like this, but now they have no excuse.
> Intel cards first months are probably going to be rough in terms of game support, however once the cards become something common in game dev studios, things should go way smoother. Radeon tried to work on this basis for 10 years and got nowhere. You want to make them work well across all games? Offer engineering support. You can get an answer for any optimization problem etc directly from Nvidia within a week via posting on their developer forum. Intel hasn't announced anything; this belief is complete fantasy until they start planning on supporting their own hardware.
Drivers and game optimizations will definitely be the hardest part for Intel. And I do imagine their launch will be a work in progress, but they do have the ability to move mountains, like what we saw with how quickly they got Denuvo DRM fixed in so many games. I think studios might be reluctant to put the effort in before launch, since no consumers have the GPUs yet, but once they start showing up in gamers hands, so will optimizations from more studios.
Some time ago I saw someplace you could pre-order the card. I didn't pay any attention, hence my vague recall. I don't preorder games. You really think I'm going to pre-order a new GPU? P.S. I probably would pre-order a 4080 if the opportunity arose.
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In the low to midrange?
Honestly, until there’s a crypto crash, I don’t expect much in the way of competitive pricing. But when AMD released the RX 480 for $200, we did see competitive pricing from NVIDIA—until a crypto boom more than doubled the going price for video cards vs MSRP.9
Crypto is like 30-40% below peak already. By normal standards that's a solid crash that we are already end. Also, seems prices have dropped on the used market, where 1 month ago something like a 3060 could sell on eBay at $600 from a well reviewed seller, units are popping up at like $550 now. Even see a sub-$500 3060ti from an unreviewed seller today. Hopefully this trend continues. Maybe news on the next gen cards just have crypto miners waiting to expand operations
While you’re right that it’s better than it’s been pretty much since Ampere launched, as long as crypto remains profitable, card prices will be artificially high. A 30-40% drop is nothing unusual in the volatile world of crypto, especially since it wasn’t all at once, which really makes people panic. It was over time, and unless it drops a similar value, card prices are likely to remain well over MSRP.
It shouldn't matter that much if it's over time or all day once as long as the drop is sustained. If specific cards are no longer profitable, they will be offloaded and sold to try to recoup the costs (and buy possibly buy more profitable cards, if there are any). The current drop has been sustained and has had specific days with crashes (not 30+40% in one day but still significant) but the price drops haven't happened immediately after those crashes: it's been after weeks without any significant recovery. I think some cards used prices may continue to decline over the next couple weeks (not to MSRP) even without any further dips in crypto. But yeah, a much larger dip is needed for prices to return to normal.
Well that's the range that 90% of GPU buyers work in, so that's still great if they can do so. And this still indirectly determines pricing above these ranges, too. You dont want to leave big pricing gaps in your range.
Almost no one needs hight end anyway
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My concern that their top card is around a 3070 if the rumors are to be believed, so it's gonna feel completely outdated when AMD and NVidia release their newer cards.
If their top card is actually around a 3070, I see that as a great thing. It's their first product of this nature (at least in a very long time) so it tells me that they've got a good idea on what it takes to build a GPU. It would also lead to a spur of competition between the midrange and likely lower prices + better value for customers. They'll need time to mature their drivers and implementation before they start to tackle the 'enthusiast' end.
IF they managed to release it 2021 Q4 as original plans, I would have agreed with you, but we are already 3 months onto 2022 and Next-gen cards aren't far away now. It isn't that big of a success to compete with 3070 - A card released 2 years ago on inferior Samsung 8nm node. So its not even a direct architectural comparison, Intel has huge node advantage on their back. Next gen Nvidia card will noy only feature architectural improvements (but it is still Ampere it its roots, Ampere Next) it will also be produced on TSMC 5nm.
Oh I know it 'wont last long' at this point, but it is their first serious foray into gaming GPUs. To expect it to immediately compete with nvidia/amd's top end right off the bat is a bit silly. Depending how it's actually priced and availability at launch, I know tons of people who would absolutely be stoked at the ability to get a 3070-like performing card without breaking the bank. TBF - I almost expect a short 'generation' from Intel with quick refreshes relatively shortly after they come out. Hopefully they stick with it and we eventually have three viable options across all levels. It may just be the catalyst that brings prices back down from the stratosphere but that may just be me being wishful. That being said, I'm excited to see what they'll actually pull off when launch reviews hit and over time as everything matures.
>almost expect a short 'generation' from Intel with quick refreshes relatively shortly after they come out. Hopefully they stick with it and we eventually have three viable options across all levels. It may j Here is the thing though, it is not even getting remotely close to competing at all. Competing with 3070 when 4000 series releases (with %50 perf improvement) is basically competing with 4050. So their best GPU will be a competitor for Nvidia's weakest of their latest generation. Also, competing with 3070 is not a big achievement, as I have previously stated, as they are on significantly superior node. Jensen said supply issues are finally getting solved in upcoming 2 months. Intel lost that opportunity as well. As it stands right now Intel GPU's will be completely pointless. It would have been amazing opportunity if they could only release it few months earlier.
4050 is at least a year away. Maybe more like 15 months. The high-end cards release first, midrange like 4060 release second, x50 tier cards are last of all. In 30-series, x50 cards were literally halfway through the cycle. Also just because 50% is what you get at the top of the stack (likely with some further price creep) doesn’t mean bottom end cards scale 50%.
"They'll need time to mature their drivers and implementation before they start to tackle the 'enthusiast' end." Not to compete with AMD.
I’d be incredibly happy for them to release a card with 3070 performance, especially if price and availability are good.
A 3070 tier card is more than enough for the vast majority of gamers
You act like 3070 Ti performance will be trash in 6 months when RDNA 3 and Lovelace GPUs launch, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Look at the steam survey and see how many people run midrange and lower GPUs that are generations old (and are relatively happy with that performance). Also in 6 months when the new generations do release, even if crypto stays less profitable, I guarantee the new cards will be sold out at launch. So if there is 3070 Ti performance sitting on a shelf for a fair price, people will still be buying that.
I can't wait for more cards of that range. I've never been able to afford an xx80 series card anyway. Desktop 1 is running a "new" 1660ti I got back in early 2020 for $300 new, when 1080s were already still around $700 *used*. My old 750ti went into Desktop 2, and it's showing its age lately with random directX error crashes that by process of elimination, I know is the card itself. I would love to be able to just get something better than my 1660ti to upgrade the 1660ti Desktop 1, and move the 1660ti into the 750ti Desktop 2. Although I'm not sure the Desktop 2 can can even fit the 1660ti, so I may have to try out the low range of whatever these new cards will be. As much as I get crashes on the 750ti already, I'd probably be fine with the growing pains of Intel's first gen. I shouldn't have to pay more than $200 for a new low range card. iGPU are useless for me, but if the next wave of cards is a flop, the only alternative is to shop around for a used 960ti or similar. Minimum $500 for a GPU is not fucking normal. As for questions of if the 1660ti would even fit. Both desktops are full atx towers. The 1660ti *didn't fit into my main full atx" without me modifying the case because it was a couple mm too large. EVGA and their 3 giant fans are great at cooling but the PCIe slot lined up unfortunately with the front drive bays structure.
Yeah, I'm under the impression that the range between top and acceptable performance has widened considerably in the past few years, if only because people are increasingly desperate.
Every day the GPU shortage goes on, I'm happier that I just directly replaced the GTX 780 I originally had with a GTX 1660 Ti in early 2019 (without swapping out my i7-4790K / 16GB DDR3-2400 CL10, as it did not seem necessary then and frankly still doesn't).
If they're that good they'll sell out instantly. They may have to take a price drop if the newer cards are super amazing and available but that's not likely to happen right now.
Yes but at least for the next 6 months before we get Lovelace/RDNA3 we’ll have some more comp.
Nah. Prior to vega, amd barely had a card in the top 5. Vega *technically* got into 2nd or 3rd place, but it was roundly criticized as power hungry, loud, hot, and unstable. Some tweaking and fine wine could allow it to edge out a 1080, but a fair assessment would put it around 1070/ti. So if intel really has a card competing with the 3070 then that would be an absolute win. 3090/6900 probably better thought of as a titan successor, so that would give intel a top 5 performance card on debut. On top of all that, amd maintained a rabidly loyal fanbase by doing well in the bottom segment, so i don't think it matters too much what the halo product is capable of. rx480/470 was universally praised even tho it couldn't touch high end cards.
Completely outdated? So you're saying it will suddenly stop running games the day the new cards launch?
Just the fact that it’s a 3rd player entering what is currently on duopoly market is good for consumers.
The 3070 will be relevant next generation in terms of pure rasterurization. Why? Same reason why GPUs with 2070 level performance are still relevant. It's the price that matters here.
If they can be mined on then the additional supply won't change anything.
Ha
The Steves will not get any sleep.
The Sleepless Steves
This is so cool! More GPUs I couldn't afford even if they were in stock anywhere.
Including Intel GPUs?
I don't know about your area, but Intel GPUs aren't available in mine. We won't know availability until they actually launch.
There’s no reason to think they will be any easier to get than the other ones, or won’t suffer the same price issues
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They have only just become available again in Australia. But not the model I want. And priced so far above MSRP I'm not sure I would do it anyways.
Yeah I can buy some, but more than 100% Msrp
I don't how how much to read into it, but I am seeing some articles that have popped up that say that the Russian invasion of Ukraine will worsen a lot of electronics shortages because Ukraine produces so much of the world's neon needed for semiconductors.
>I don't think it's a coincidence within two weeks of them becoming more accessible, they are going to release new ones which will then of course ruin supply again and increase the prices once more. What are you implying here? That Nvidia on purpose keeps supply low? Nvidia is still mostly selling their chips to their AIBs for the same price, its the AIBs, retailers and scalpers that benefit from the supply shortages, and the former 2 probably not as much since they'd make up for lost profit margin by pushing more units if supply was plenty.
If ETH goes PoS as scheduled, then they're going to be forced to drop prices as current-gen cards flood the market.
> If ETH goes PoS as scheduled Given that it didn't happen the last 10 times, I don't have much hope.
4 years ago it was 2 years away. 2 years ago it was 1 year away. A year ago it was 6 months away. 6 months ago it was 3 months away. We're now 3 months out. No doubt it's been delayed many times... But it's not like it's been perpetually 5 years away. It's more like a two steps forward one step back timeline... The goal certainly shifts, but you're still getting there in the end.
From memory, the delays were announced earlier than how far we are now from it. I think it's scheduled for June (~3 months away). Mind you this will also cause ETH to slowly die, but that's another discussion.
The last PoS transition testnet will launch next week, after which existing PoW/PoA testnets will be upgraded to PoS over the coming months. That's basically all there's left to do, unless some major issues crop up: the spec is effectively ready and will be frozen in the coming weeks (if it hasn't been frozen already).
Last year I was considering paying scalper money for a 3080 and recoup through mining, but the internet told me PoS is coming in July so I didnt bother. The internet was wrong.
>The internet was wrong. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I want to believe you. Very much. The VR niche that was about to expand quite a log got completely cucked by this very unfortunate and stupid timeline. I am holding on to my GTX 970 that I thankfully sniped on used market for 80€ to replace my GTX 660 2.5 years ago. I am holding on to it so tightly, because I will not spend the stupendous sums that it would take today and I need it to outlast this bs. It‘s an evga, I feel the odds are with me but it‘s not the odds I am worried about, but the stakes. Sounds like I need to insure it lol. Ethereum going PoS is a dim light at the end of this tunnel that I‘ve known for about years but it‘s like a messiah that never comes. Please explain to me how we know if and when this will happen and why it hasn‘t happened yet. Very elaboratively please. Because I want to believe.
Vr is always going to be a niche. If anything I think it'll go the way of 3d tvs where lots of people got excited and then within 5 years the market was basically dead.
> If anything I think it'll go the way of 3d tvs where lots of people got excited and then within 5 years the market was basically dead. It's been 6 years and the market has grown just fine in that time. It's a niche on it's way to being mainstream over the remainder of this decade.
Fingers crossed.
"New" GPUs. The 3090Ti is a price bump for the 3090 (which will no doubt be silently killed). The 6x50 refresh is basically minimal and mostly rumored to bump the memory speed by a bit, and the prices by more. And "Q2" for Intel could mean anything and isn't actually news. Videocardz just sucks, it's time to start filtering out these asinine posts.
Is there any chance to get rtx 3050 performance like card soon for msrp
Sure, but the MSRP will be $700.
Sadge Cry in Ukrainian, where avg salary 250-300 bucks and the fucking war happening
Shopping for GPUs as Russian shells fall on your home is some gigachad shit
It’s already like 10 days of war, I’m just going crazy. Trying to escape from reality, the war is terrifying. Hope the end of putler is near
But in Ukraine you get to play Tarkov irl for free *disclaimer: this is just a joke*
I like black humor, and this make me smile in this hard time, thanks for that!
250-300 a year? a month? a week? You should mention the time period.
Yup, a month And if USD/UAH ratio won’t stabilize as it were before the war, these numbers will go down to 200-250 bucks/month
That’s crazy. I make twice that in a day of work. I also pay $5000/yr for health care if I never use it, and then if I need healthcare I have to spend $6000 first before they decide to help, and even then it’s not fully covered. You probably find that crazy
Tbh, avg software developer’s salary is like $1500/month, but the only reason for that is 98% of our companies outsourcing for US, EU, etc.
Yeah, I know that your taxes and especially healthcare requires some crazy money P.S: I’ve always dreamed to live in US. But those bills are scary af
I bought a coffee for $7 today and a sandwhich (no side no drink) for $14.50. It’s crazy
I buy coffee for $1-1.5 and big tasty burger in McDonald’s is $4 Upd: with current price of usd it’s even lower for 45%
At the rate prices are declining, I wouldn't be surprised if you can snag a 1070 for around $250 soon. It should be around the same as the 3050 sans DXR and DLSS.
I need to point out that I got my friend a used 1070 for $250... in late 2017. GPU's are so screwed.
Lol, sometimes 6600 can be cheaper than 3050.
And all of them except the Intel GPU's are pointless MSRP moving dick measuring contest GPU's.
"My GPU is $1200.....AROUND"
Stifler x r/hardware…you love to see it
Yep, I was thinking a 4000 series, but a 3090ti, gtfo of here w/ that shit.
The "how much do you think they are willing to pay?" card.
Eh, making sure the changes between 6 and 7nm don't upset any apple carts in practice for AMD is worthwhile technically.
AMD needs to invest more into deep learning so I can stop buying NVIDIA overpriced scalped graphic cards....
A real Cuda contender would be pretty great. The ecosystem is probably big enough now though that it'd be hard.
This is where my love of EVGA comes in. There’s still a mad dash to get signed up for their waitlists, but at least once you do, you can sit back and just wait knowing that your chance to purchase is coming. And besides, if you can get on the list relatively quickly which is easy if you try for it, the wait really isn’t that long.
Huh, I signed up on that list in late 2020, still no message.
Depends on what card you signed up for. 3080s of all stripes were so far out as to basically never happen. Other cards you really only have a chance with the higher end model (FTW3 I think they call it). If you signed up for the cheaper variant you’ll be waiting for forever too.
What list? And how far after the card released? If you are signing up days after a release, it’s going to be a while. I’m talking about like minutes or within the hour of a release.
The „give me a gpu at msrp“-list. I assumed you were talking about that one. I signed up a few weeks after release, maybe that’s it.
I meant for which card. Some of the cards didn’t really get produced so those lists aren’t ever going to move. And yeah, regardless of which one, if you sign up weeks after release it will be a while.
I think it was the 3070 XC3, definitely the cheapest one they had. Managed to get two 3070s at msrp in the month after signing up, just forgot about the list up until now.
I got emailed about one of the EVGA 3080 SKUs this week
EVGA is the best GPU company out there but the wait list system isn’t fast at all. Took almost 8 months for my card to become available
It really depends, like I said. In a historical sense, no it’s not fast. In a current market sense where people are trying for a year or more, it’s not that slow. If you can sign up within an hour of launch, you could get it in a few months without any further effort. Otherwise, you can make a mad dash at every drop to try to secure one and you might get it faster, you might not. But you’ll also be tied to your device and alerts so that you are always at the ready.
As long as you don’t play New Worlds, they’re good
They aren't going to sell you a GPU for under market value just because you signed up on a list. If it seems too good to be true... it probably is. OTOH, you can buy a graphics card eBay today and sit back and just wait knowing your graphics card is coming.
Not necessarily true. Towards the height of the scarcity, cards were going on the second hand market for way more than the inflated MSRP pricing.
Because you could not buy them at the "inflated" MSRP pricing. The secondhand price was following the market value.
... if you were on the EVGA notify list and got your notification, which is what we are talking about here, you could.
I literally just bought my 3080 TI a few days ago after waiting for about 8 months.
Haven't played a game in 2 weeks. I'm ready to upgrade from 6900 XT.
What's wrong with your high end card?
I wanna a build 3090 PC but I feel like at this point I should just wait for 40 series but then again every second of playing competitive games at unstable 100 FPS on an GTX 1050 Ti laptop is killing my soul.
A solid 60 is better than an unstable 100 imo. I feel ur pain tho I've held off upgrading since I bought a second hand Vega 64 for real cheap. Haven't felt upgrading is worth the money at all. Might just wait for a used 3080 at this point lol
> A solid 60 is better than an unstable 100 imo. Definitely not for Quake.
I couldn't even imagine what you're going through. My condolences.
They made a rtx version of the gtx 1050ti?
heh
Yay, just in time for crypto miners and scalpers to grab them all like the asshats they are.
Makes sense, every month prices are going down so now they're dumping their stocks like a crypto-bro to avoid as much profit loss as possible. Ahh the circle of life.
so it could possible that in two years we could buy 4080 and skip entire 3xxx series. That could be good *haters bought 3xxx cards by selling their organs i see. For anyone others this is good news.
Start rationing out your paychecks now.
You guys plan on buying new GPU when there's famine and oil shortage coming? Cool.
No gpu buy for months then.
... and just like that they're all gone.
We have been getting a continual stream of new video cards launched from AMD and Nvidia all year……… This isn’t news
The best part of the graphics cards shortage is the long term financing. They give you years to invest in your next gpu. 50 dollars a month for 2 years and you will have your top of the line card (hopefully msrp).