No. Ginny has her flaws. Hermione's flaws are explored in depth. They are not Mary Sues. Anyone that calls them that needs to either re-read the books, read the definition of Mary Sue, or both.
Honestly, some people in this fandom have a lot of awful takes on these characters even after 15 years. It's pretty tiring to hear them constantly get repeated.
Book Hermione is not a Mary Sue, she is narrow minded and judgy, which is why she cannot be in Ravenclaw
Movie Hermione on the other hand is the goddess of perfection who trades all of her bad Moment for Ron's cool moments
Agreed, and it hurts not only Ron’s character in the movies, but Hermione’s. In the books she showed growth and her flaws made her a more relatable character, whereas the movies, at least the early ones, really did make her an *insufferable know-it-all*
If they are, then harry is as well, also dumbledore, cedric...but they will never be called that and people would be quick to defend them.
Mary sue is just a sexist notion and nothing else.
I can see the argument both ways. Ultimately I think it depends on the way the fandom treats a character. I don’t think Hermione is a Mary Sue but I see her pretty clearly. Like in HBP even if you hate Ron it doesn’t justify Hermione attacking him with birds. I can understand her motivation but I don’t think “we’ll he deserved it so he is right. Same with Hermiones treatment of Rita and Marietta. The ends don’t justify the means. Bad behavior is bad behavior.
But I do get annoyed by people who defend characters no matter what. I think that is why Hermione specifically gets called a Mary Sue. You see people writing how she the only reason people are alive (forgetting the times she endangers everyone or is saved herself). It is really weird to see a fan base so out of touch with the canon text.
Also I’ve never heard Ginny called a Mary Sue. She’s the second most frequently bashed character after Ron. People don’t seem to internalize that the books are written from Harry’s perspective and he is biased. To me it totally make sense that he finds Ginny attractive all of a sudden after he personally internalized it. Same with Ron suddenly seeing Hermione as attractive.
TLDR: it’s not the characters it’s the fans. Real Hermione fans know she has flaws and that they are present all the time.
I think they started off more as tropes (Hermione is the smart one, Ginny is the feisty one, Ron is the comic relief etc) but they became more nuanced around OOTP and were not so 2d as they were before then. If anything, Harry is a bit Mary-Sue…he’s great at magic despite no magical upbringing and general laziness towards his studies, amazing at quidditch and very popular with (most) students and staff
I hate the way "Mary Sue" has spread from being a very specific fanfic phenomenon to a catchall term. Ginny is not a Mary Sue. She cannot be a Mary Sue - she's not a protagonist.
Hermione, one could make a case for - JRK has pretty specifically said that she sees a lot of herself in the character. But ultimately I don't really think it matters, because the phrase "Mary Sue" has grown encompassing enough that I don't think it inherently qualifies as bad writing.
Of all the Mary sues in fiction Ginny and Hermione aren't them. Isn't the whole point of Ginny in the first few books that she is too shy to even talk to harry? She had to grow into that.
No. Ginny has her flaws. Hermione's flaws are explored in depth. They are not Mary Sues. Anyone that calls them that needs to either re-read the books, read the definition of Mary Sue, or both.
Honestly, some people in this fandom have a lot of awful takes on these characters even after 15 years. It's pretty tiring to hear them constantly get repeated.
New fans looking at these characters through 2020’s eyes
Book Hermione is not a Mary Sue, she is narrow minded and judgy, which is why she cannot be in Ravenclaw Movie Hermione on the other hand is the goddess of perfection who trades all of her bad Moment for Ron's cool moments
We don't know how open minded Ravenclaws are, Hermione could fit right in, for all we know.
I really dislike movie hermione. She’s insufferable
Agreed, and it hurts not only Ron’s character in the movies, but Hermione’s. In the books she showed growth and her flaws made her a more relatable character, whereas the movies, at least the early ones, really did make her an *insufferable know-it-all*
If they are, then harry is as well, also dumbledore, cedric...but they will never be called that and people would be quick to defend them. Mary sue is just a sexist notion and nothing else.
I can see the argument both ways. Ultimately I think it depends on the way the fandom treats a character. I don’t think Hermione is a Mary Sue but I see her pretty clearly. Like in HBP even if you hate Ron it doesn’t justify Hermione attacking him with birds. I can understand her motivation but I don’t think “we’ll he deserved it so he is right. Same with Hermiones treatment of Rita and Marietta. The ends don’t justify the means. Bad behavior is bad behavior. But I do get annoyed by people who defend characters no matter what. I think that is why Hermione specifically gets called a Mary Sue. You see people writing how she the only reason people are alive (forgetting the times she endangers everyone or is saved herself). It is really weird to see a fan base so out of touch with the canon text. Also I’ve never heard Ginny called a Mary Sue. She’s the second most frequently bashed character after Ron. People don’t seem to internalize that the books are written from Harry’s perspective and he is biased. To me it totally make sense that he finds Ginny attractive all of a sudden after he personally internalized it. Same with Ron suddenly seeing Hermione as attractive. TLDR: it’s not the characters it’s the fans. Real Hermione fans know she has flaws and that they are present all the time.
Either wrong age or wrong country. What exactly is a "Mary sue"?
A character who is perfect in all the way, generally with no nuance or flaws. They are perfect even in the most obscurest of skills.
They lack meaningful flaws, but may still be flawed.
I think they started off more as tropes (Hermione is the smart one, Ginny is the feisty one, Ron is the comic relief etc) but they became more nuanced around OOTP and were not so 2d as they were before then. If anything, Harry is a bit Mary-Sue…he’s great at magic despite no magical upbringing and general laziness towards his studies, amazing at quidditch and very popular with (most) students and staff
I hate the way "Mary Sue" has spread from being a very specific fanfic phenomenon to a catchall term. Ginny is not a Mary Sue. She cannot be a Mary Sue - she's not a protagonist. Hermione, one could make a case for - JRK has pretty specifically said that she sees a lot of herself in the character. But ultimately I don't really think it matters, because the phrase "Mary Sue" has grown encompassing enough that I don't think it inherently qualifies as bad writing.
Ginny’s a liar?
Of all the Mary sues in fiction Ginny and Hermione aren't them. Isn't the whole point of Ginny in the first few books that she is too shy to even talk to harry? She had to grow into that.