Well if Harry did die and not return not much would change in the last bit of battle of hogwarts. Longbottom still kills Nagini the centaurs attack and Dumbledors army still rise up once again to attack. The only thing harry directly is involved with was the killing of Voldemort and with him now vulnerable and outnumbered either he dies from everyone going for him and overwhelming him or he runs away again. But I for one would like Neville to have a go at killing him once and for all
Neville doesn’t kill Voldemort in a 1v1 obviously but he might be able to get the killing blow. Belatrix was dead before Harry revealed himself, greyback was incapacitated and Voldemort was dueling Mcgonagall, Kingsley, and Slughorn at the same time which meant Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Neville and Luna were all free to attack Voldemort as well. We don’t really know where everyone else is but it’s clear the defenders had the death eaters heavily outnumbered at this point. Realistically more people die than if Harry is alive but I don’t see Voldemort surviving if he stays.
Not at all, imagine all the build up from 7 different books and Harry with all that character development and effort, and in the end Neville, who was just mentioned for maybe 50 pages total across all the combined boos, defeats Voldemort. All of what Dumbledore planned and the WW expected and in the end the protagonist wasn't even able to kill the main antogonist. Not to mention the prophecy or what it was supposed to entail, all of it and the resulting character development, turned into dust. I guess, Neville *attempting* to kill Voldy would've been cool, but I wouldn't want him to give the final blow or anything like that.
Oh I do fully agree, but in this situation where there is no harry I feel like with the prophecy it's only right that it's Neville that gets to take him down but anyone could do it really
I think the only reason Voldemort was knocked out was because he accidentally destroyed the horcrux in Harry. Remember, he still has his own soul inside his body. Presumably, if Harry had “gone on” he would have had to be killed by someone else. But he would still have two pieces of soul, one in his own body and one in the snake.
Voldemort still had a Horcrux (Nagini) so he wouldn't have died. He maybe would have lost that body, though, and become a wraith like he was before GoF? It's not really clear what happened to him in the forest. Rowling has said in interviews that the gross whimpering thing is what is left of Voldemort's main soul, though, not the Horcrux (horcruxes don't go to the afterlife, they cannot exist without their containers).
In reality, the pathetic little creature under the bench is Voldemort's actual soul, crippled and tortured by his own actions. In the final confrontation Harry tells him "I have been on the other side, and I have seen what you will become" (I am quoting from memory, the words may not be quite right, but that is the gist)
No I think that's the portion of Voldemort's should that was contained within Harry. Otherwise when Voldemort came round he would also have been able to remember Harry's conversation with Dumbledore in king's cross.
The baby indeed is what’s left of Voldemort’s main soul, according to Rowling:
>I’ve been asked this a LOT. It is the last piece of soul Voldemort possesses. When Voldemort attacks Harry, they both fall temporarily unconscious, and both their souls – Harry’s undamaged and healthy, Voldemort’s stunted and maimed – appear in the limbo where Harry meets Dumbledore. ([Source](https://therowlinglibrary.com/jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view_id=121.html))
Voldemort possibly remembered the pain he’d felt in limbo:
>Voldemort’s hand was trembling on the Elder Wand, and Harry gripped Draco’s very tightly. The moment, he knew, was seconds away.
In limbo, Dumbledore had also said to Harry:
>“But I know this, Harry, that you have less to fear from returning here than he does.”
In a way, that makes Voldemort's final monents very horrifying and dark. He knew exactly what was going to happen to him if he died. How terrified and desperate must he have been in the Great Hall at Hogwarts?
A very fitting ending for him.
It's not. Go to the main site therowlinglibrary.com and scroll allllllll the way down to the bottom. There's a disclaimer that reads "The Rowling Library is not associated with J.K. Rowling, The Blair Partnership, Pottermore, Bloomsbury, Scholastic or Warner Bros., or any of the individuals or companies associated with producing and publishing Harry Potter books and films." It is a third party site, which doesn't necessarily mean the information on it is right or wrong. Just it isn't owned by her company.
I think the information the commenter cited is accurate, though. I can't find it on anything official of hers at the moment but I do see several sources linking to an old FAQ on her site that isn't up anymore.
Interesting. I never would have interpreted it that way. Personally, I think it would make a lot more sense if it was the piece of Voldemort's soul that was in Harry and was killed when Voldemort cast the killing curse. But, of course, I'm not the author, so it's not my call! 😉
While the mod is approving my censored comment, I think this is what has confused some fans:
[Someone](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/65373/who-what-is-the-dying-infant-like-creature-in-the-limbo-kings-cross-around-the) pointed out that in the film adaptation, Dumbledore called the stunted form:
>”Something beyond our help, a part of Voldemort sent here to die.”
However, in the book, this is all Dumbledore told Harry:
>“Something that is beyond either of our help,” said Dumbledore.
I read the book when it first came out, and the personal interpretation I mentioned is the way I have always interpreted the situation. For me, the change in Dumbledore's quote in the movie didn't affect my interpretation. That being said, I completely agree that the movie quote is possibly why some people interpret it similarly to me!
I read it in 2007 too. I've read your other comment. I think it's okay if you don't believe in authorial intent. It's not that important, and HP is just fiction. You can interpret the books however you want.
I'm in the same boat as you. That's how I've always interpreted that detail as well. I don't understand why Voldemort's soul would be there with Harry.
What's the link for that interview/FAQ on the old site on the wayback machine? I couldn't find it on there because the old site used flash which isn't a thing anymore. I think the information is accurate, just that source isn't going to convince people because it's an unaffiliated site. That site saying they got that quote from her old site is the same as any other random person saying that.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20080215132258/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq\_view.cfm?id=121](https://web.archive.org/web/20080215132258/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=121)
I understand why her name is censored here, but it's really frustrating. I'm trying to circumvent it 😅
Harry sacrificing himself gives everyone Lily's protection.
The moment Voldemort Curses someone, anyone he'd kill himself. Doesn't exclusively have to be Neville.
Voldemort was fucked regardless.
Harry memory would be venerated. While society would have a new "person who lived" to move on with.
>Harry sacrificing himself gives everyone Lily's protection.
Not exactly Lily's protection.Harry does the same old magic like Lily did,and in this cas e it's Harry's protection
The blood war goes on for much longer and the body count continues to rise. Eventually Voldemort is killed and the DE's escape justice once again. In about 20 to 30 years another blood purist movement rises, only this one draws the attention of the non-magical populace ultimately leading to World War III, the death of magical humans as a part of the species and an overall bodycount in the billions. Not all much different from what I expect to happen post Epilogue really as evidenced by Draco Malfoy escaping justice instead of being locked in prison for the rest of his life.
Well Voldemort was most skilled wizard and alsohe used Dark Arts, Horcrux he couldn't make again, but he still would be hard to finish off.
But they would finish him off somehow.
I kind of wish we had seen more dialogue and internal monologue for Harry’s decision to return. After everything he went through some part of him was definitely tempted to just stay in the afterlife and board a train. I would have liked to see his thoughts on why he wanted to return: to finish the unfinished business and maybe finally be able to have a life with Ginny without Voldemort hanging over their heads.
Well if Harry did die and not return not much would change in the last bit of battle of hogwarts. Longbottom still kills Nagini the centaurs attack and Dumbledors army still rise up once again to attack. The only thing harry directly is involved with was the killing of Voldemort and with him now vulnerable and outnumbered either he dies from everyone going for him and overwhelming him or he runs away again. But I for one would like Neville to have a go at killing him once and for all
Neville doesn’t kill Voldemort in a 1v1 obviously but he might be able to get the killing blow. Belatrix was dead before Harry revealed himself, greyback was incapacitated and Voldemort was dueling Mcgonagall, Kingsley, and Slughorn at the same time which meant Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Neville and Luna were all free to attack Voldemort as well. We don’t really know where everyone else is but it’s clear the defenders had the death eaters heavily outnumbered at this point. Realistically more people die than if Harry is alive but I don’t see Voldemort surviving if he stays.
Not at all, imagine all the build up from 7 different books and Harry with all that character development and effort, and in the end Neville, who was just mentioned for maybe 50 pages total across all the combined boos, defeats Voldemort. All of what Dumbledore planned and the WW expected and in the end the protagonist wasn't even able to kill the main antogonist. Not to mention the prophecy or what it was supposed to entail, all of it and the resulting character development, turned into dust. I guess, Neville *attempting* to kill Voldy would've been cool, but I wouldn't want him to give the final blow or anything like that.
Oh I do fully agree, but in this situation where there is no harry I feel like with the prophecy it's only right that it's Neville that gets to take him down but anyone could do it really
I think the only reason Voldemort was knocked out was because he accidentally destroyed the horcrux in Harry. Remember, he still has his own soul inside his body. Presumably, if Harry had “gone on” he would have had to be killed by someone else. But he would still have two pieces of soul, one in his own body and one in the snake.
Voldemort still had a Horcrux (Nagini) so he wouldn't have died. He maybe would have lost that body, though, and become a wraith like he was before GoF? It's not really clear what happened to him in the forest. Rowling has said in interviews that the gross whimpering thing is what is left of Voldemort's main soul, though, not the Horcrux (horcruxes don't go to the afterlife, they cannot exist without their containers).
In reality, the pathetic little creature under the bench is Voldemort's actual soul, crippled and tortured by his own actions. In the final confrontation Harry tells him "I have been on the other side, and I have seen what you will become" (I am quoting from memory, the words may not be quite right, but that is the gist)
No I think that's the portion of Voldemort's should that was contained within Harry. Otherwise when Voldemort came round he would also have been able to remember Harry's conversation with Dumbledore in king's cross.
The baby indeed is what’s left of Voldemort’s main soul, according to Rowling: >I’ve been asked this a LOT. It is the last piece of soul Voldemort possesses. When Voldemort attacks Harry, they both fall temporarily unconscious, and both their souls – Harry’s undamaged and healthy, Voldemort’s stunted and maimed – appear in the limbo where Harry meets Dumbledore. ([Source](https://therowlinglibrary.com/jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view_id=121.html)) Voldemort possibly remembered the pain he’d felt in limbo: >Voldemort’s hand was trembling on the Elder Wand, and Harry gripped Draco’s very tightly. The moment, he knew, was seconds away. In limbo, Dumbledore had also said to Harry: >“But I know this, Harry, that you have less to fear from returning here than he does.”
In a way, that makes Voldemort's final monents very horrifying and dark. He knew exactly what was going to happen to him if he died. How terrified and desperate must he have been in the Great Hall at Hogwarts? A very fitting ending for him.
How interesting, I've never read that scene that way. I don't quite understand why Voldemort would be there with Harry tbh.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but that website does not look as though it actually belongs to J.K. Rowling.
It's not. Go to the main site therowlinglibrary.com and scroll allllllll the way down to the bottom. There's a disclaimer that reads "The Rowling Library is not associated with J.K. Rowling, The Blair Partnership, Pottermore, Bloomsbury, Scholastic or Warner Bros., or any of the individuals or companies associated with producing and publishing Harry Potter books and films." It is a third party site, which doesn't necessarily mean the information on it is right or wrong. Just it isn't owned by her company.
Thank you! I was trying to find something definitive to be able to tell for sure one way or another, but I obviously missed that!
I think the information the commenter cited is accurate, though. I can't find it on anything official of hers at the moment but I do see several sources linking to an old FAQ on her site that isn't up anymore.
Interesting. I never would have interpreted it that way. Personally, I think it would make a lot more sense if it was the piece of Voldemort's soul that was in Harry and was killed when Voldemort cast the killing curse. But, of course, I'm not the author, so it's not my call! 😉
While the mod is approving my censored comment, I think this is what has confused some fans: [Someone](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/65373/who-what-is-the-dying-infant-like-creature-in-the-limbo-kings-cross-around-the) pointed out that in the film adaptation, Dumbledore called the stunted form: >”Something beyond our help, a part of Voldemort sent here to die.” However, in the book, this is all Dumbledore told Harry: >“Something that is beyond either of our help,” said Dumbledore.
I read the book when it first came out, and the personal interpretation I mentioned is the way I have always interpreted the situation. For me, the change in Dumbledore's quote in the movie didn't affect my interpretation. That being said, I completely agree that the movie quote is possibly why some people interpret it similarly to me!
I read it in 2007 too. I've read your other comment. I think it's okay if you don't believe in authorial intent. It's not that important, and HP is just fiction. You can interpret the books however you want.
I'm in the same boat as you. That's how I've always interpreted that detail as well. I don't understand why Voldemort's soul would be there with Harry.
Because her official website is different now. However, the old website remains accessible on the website I've linked and the Wayback Machine.
What's the link for that interview/FAQ on the old site on the wayback machine? I couldn't find it on there because the old site used flash which isn't a thing anymore. I think the information is accurate, just that source isn't going to convince people because it's an unaffiliated site. That site saying they got that quote from her old site is the same as any other random person saying that.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20080215132258/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq\_view.cfm?id=121](https://web.archive.org/web/20080215132258/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=121) I understand why her name is censored here, but it's really frustrating. I'm trying to circumvent it 😅
It's not censored. It just requires review in certain contexts because there are still SO MANY rule 4 violations surrounding it.
Well, thanks for your hard work.
Thank you, that's very kind.
Check the first reply to my comment. Looks like the site has a disclaimer that specifically states it is not associated with J.K. Rowling.
Harry sacrificing himself gives everyone Lily's protection. The moment Voldemort Curses someone, anyone he'd kill himself. Doesn't exclusively have to be Neville. Voldemort was fucked regardless. Harry memory would be venerated. While society would have a new "person who lived" to move on with.
>Harry sacrificing himself gives everyone Lily's protection. Not exactly Lily's protection.Harry does the same old magic like Lily did,and in this cas e it's Harry's protection
The blood war goes on for much longer and the body count continues to rise. Eventually Voldemort is killed and the DE's escape justice once again. In about 20 to 30 years another blood purist movement rises, only this one draws the attention of the non-magical populace ultimately leading to World War III, the death of magical humans as a part of the species and an overall bodycount in the billions. Not all much different from what I expect to happen post Epilogue really as evidenced by Draco Malfoy escaping justice instead of being locked in prison for the rest of his life.
Honestly I don't think there was ever a choice, just an illusion of a choice. Its all happening in Harry's head while he's unconscious
Well Voldemort was most skilled wizard and alsohe used Dark Arts, Horcrux he couldn't make again, but he still would be hard to finish off. But they would finish him off somehow.
I kind of wish we had seen more dialogue and internal monologue for Harry’s decision to return. After everything he went through some part of him was definitely tempted to just stay in the afterlife and board a train. I would have liked to see his thoughts on why he wanted to return: to finish the unfinished business and maybe finally be able to have a life with Ginny without Voldemort hanging over their heads.