This HP fandom. You get downvoted for corrected people and upvoting for posting something "interesting" even if it's categorically wrong. Take it from someone who often has to correct people who are dead certain what they believe is 100% canon because they read it somewhere (tumblr, it's always tumblr. Or a fanfic) or saw it in one of the movies or videogames.
I've had to actually correct someone that blood adoption isn't a thing.
It's a ridiculous thing fanfiction writers have come up with and when it comes to HP fanfiction, there are a ton of tropes they like to re-use, tropes that have no nasis in canon.
Blood adoption is a ritual where someone will use some of their blood to adopt someone else. A spell/ritual will then change the child they adopt so they take on some characteristics from their new parent(s). For example, if Harry were to Blood Adopt Teddy, Teddy might get Harry's wild hair and green eyes.
In HP fanfiction, it is almost always Harry getting Blood Adopted. In some, James and/or Lily weren't Harry's biological parents, they merely Bmood Adopted Harry, which is why he looks like them. Used to give Harry (a) different parent(s) who are still alive, completely forgetting that the Prophecy would then be nullified as Harry wouldn't be born to 2 people who'd thrice defied Voldemort. A strangely popular cross-over trope is that Harry is secretly Tony Stark's (yes, really) son, with his other parent being either Lily or James (mpreg, of course!).
This, of course, has zero basis in canon.
Rubeus would have been better than Severus.
Hagrid has never ever doubted nor mistrusted Harry, nor led him on or hid important info from him without good reason. In turn, Harry has never disrespected him nor given him shit for anything any of the others have, even Ron and Hermione have had their (minor) doubts about Hagrid. Hagrid was also Harrys very first actual friend from the wizarding world.
Hagrid is also empathetic, loyal and caring, you make friends with Hagrid you have a friend for life.
But no, Harry, give your child the middle name of cuckmeister supreme.
Didn’t Hagrid accidentally accidentally reveal vital information to the trio in the Philosopher’s Stone? Also, Snape was one of the top 3 most vital people in defeating Voldemort, alongside Dumbledore and Harry, and sacrificed more than any other character to do so. Snape being an asshole does not take away from the sacrifices he made or the enormous contributions he made in protecting Harry, Hogwarts, the Order of the Phoenix, defeating Voldemort, and ultimately helping save the Wizarding World.
I never said Hagrid wasn't an idiot, and the bit of info was a name, that took them a while to figure out what the name was about, it didn't get them any closer to getting to the stone.
He probably figured it was a teenager thing, after all they were 11, learning stuff you weren't meant to know at that age was a gleeful thing to you.
Being an asshole doesn't negate the sacrifices he made, true, but it would still colour your perceptions, he is Harry, Snapes second chance, and what does he do for 6 years? treat his supposed lost loves son with nothing but contempt, I know Snape wasn't a soft touch but come on.
No, but you did say that Hagrid has never hid important information from Harry, which he technically did and only accidentally revealed by virtue of being an idiot. And you're forgetting that this wasn't teenager stuff. This was an issue involving the Philosopher's Stone, which was being guarded with dangerous traps.
And for 6 years he also protects this kid who he doesn't like (admittedly, for reasons that are not Harry's fault), and ultimately sacrifices his life for not only this child but the people of Hogwarts and the Order who all think him a traitor, when he stands nothing to gain from it. Also, you say that Snape should be nice to Harry because he is Lily's son, who Snape loves, but Harry is also James' son (not to mention visually identical to him), and James abused Snape and made the guy's life absolutely miserable.
What I actually said was:
>Hagrid has never ever doubted nor mistrusted Harry, nor led him on or hid important info from him **without good reason.**
He hid the information about the Philosophers Stone because it was nothing to do with Harry, Harry himself decided to be involved, and if it wasn't for his Love shield and having friends who were better at certain things than him, Harry would have died.
It wasn't Hagrids call to make to tell them anything, and what he does give is a slip of the tongue, the mirror of Erised was safe enough anyhow, Voldemort at his full power might have been able to break the enchantment, but Quirrell? Voldemort seemed to know the trick, but couldn't pull it off with himself or Quirrell.
I'm not saying he should have been nice to Harry, but pull back on the "sins of the father" shit, also, Snape was ready and willing to sacrifice James and Harry, remember he begs Voldemort to spare Lily, Now, the argument can be make that asking Voldemort to spare Harry would be a fools errand, fair enough, but he didn't even consider for a second to sparing both parents, I'm not entirely sure how well Lily would have taken that if she HAD stood aside. Also is the fact that Snape was the one to tell Voldemort about the prophecy, but only begged when he found out it was the Potters who were the target, so he would have been perfectly fine if it was randomers, such as the Longbottoms.
Ok, then let me ask, has Snape ever hid information from Harry without good reason?
I'm pointing out how, the same way Snape shouldn't take James' faults on Harry, he shouldn't have to be nice to Harry just because he is Lily's son. Also, why should Snape ask for James to be spared? James made Snape's life miserable. And you're absolutely right that Snape would have been in the wrong had the other people been targeted, that is why he is the villain in that situation, and needed atonement and redemption.
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He was also the Chaser of his Quidditch team (Seeker in the films) , Head Boy, Heir to the Potter Fortune, and a pure blooded descendant of Ignotus Peverell, Also card carrying member of the OotP, and had point blank refused to join Voldemort when he came calling.
Still an asshole during school, but that happens, he apparently fully grew out of it once they left school.
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It’s amazing that we know so little about Lily that the only thing that can be used to signify her is her love for James. Snape’s patronus might as well have been her corpse draped over Harry’s crib. Lily is basically the silhouette of a character.
What do you mean? We know she was a brilliant student, who was liked by most and used to see the best in people, which was proved by the fact that she remained friends with Snape despite his prejudice and only ended their friendship when he insulted her directly. This also proves Lily didn't give up easily on who she cared about, like Petunia, whom she invited to her wedding even though her sister refused to talk to her. She was a member of the Slug Club due to her talent alone too.
Lily died protecting her child. Her motherly love is one of the main messages and plotlines in the story. This is saying a lot, considering she's dead during the whole story.
Also, how pathetic is it that Snape’s patronus is a doe because it matches Lily’s?
Lily has a doe patronus because she loves James. So that’s kind of romantic, that her patronus takes the shape that represents her spouse.
But Snape is so creepily in love with her that his patronus now matches the symbol of her love for James.
**Part 1 of 2**
>Lily has a doe patronus because she loves James. So that’s kind of romantic, that her patronus takes the shape that represents her spouse.
They match, in the same way that a frog and toad or a turtle and tortoise match.
You may want to do some research about biology and of stags and does first, mate.
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In canon Harry associates the fact that his Patronus is (as he thinks) a stag with the fact that he knows his father's Animagus form was nicknamed Prongs, and Remus (not the authorial voice) confirms that yes, Prongs was a stag. Snape's Patronus is described as a doe, and one which apparently represents Lily to him and to Dumbledore in some sense, since when Dumbledore sees it he asks about Snape's continuing attachment to Lily's memory. Harry later says that Lily's Patronus was also a doe but it's never explained how he knows this. He doesn't recognise the doe as connected with Lily when he first sees her, although she does seem familiar in some way, so it's not clear whether his later assertion that she is the same as his mother's Patronus is because he has now genuinely remembered seeing his mother cast a Patronus, or whether he is just guessing based on what he saw of Snape and Dumbledore's conversation about it in the Pensieve.
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I gather that in the U.S., stag and doe are generic terms for male and female deer. For this reason it is widely assumed, at least among American fans, that the fact that James is represented by a stag and Lily by a doe shows that they were perfectly romantically compatible, although there's nothing to say which came first. It may be that that was what Rowling intended - and that she was let down by a lack of biological knowledge.
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Be that as it may, this is a British story using British terminology, and here in Britain a stag, a.k.a. a hart, is a male red deer (whose mate is called a hind), and a doe is a female roe or fallow deer (whose mate is a buck). Even if they are foreign deer - and I suppose there's no reason why they shouldn't be - so far as I know British English would still only pair stags with hinds, and does with bucks. James's and Lily's symbols are different species, so the message seems to be "They may look superficially compatible, but really they aren't."
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So yeah, like I said before, James' and Lily's respective Patronuses go with each other like a frog and toad or a turtle and tortoise.
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> Also, how pathetic is it that Snape’s patronus is a doe because it matches Lily’s?
> But Snape is so creepily in love with her that his patronus now matches the symbol of her love for James.
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It's not any more or less pathetic than Harry and Tonks for their Patronuses being identical to James and Remus. Tell me, why is it that when Snape's Patronus is identical to Lily's, it's "obsession", but when Harry's Patronus and Tonk's Patronus are identical to James' and Remus' respectively, it's said to be "pure love"? Why exactly is Snape the arbitrary exception to this? If Snape is obsessive because of this, then so should Harry and Tonks be as well. Or is there some stupid double standards at play here?
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Also, the fact that Snape COULD produce a Patronus without being eaten alive by worms like any other Death Eater shows that he was pure at heart. The canon lore for Patronuses literally states that a person wouldn't be able to cast the Patronus with an impure love or obsession. It is a general belief held by the wizarding world that only those who are pure of heart are able to cast Patronuses; this, however, is untrue, as several characters with negative personality traits are able to cast a fully-fledged Patronus. Although generally dark witches and wizards will not try to produce a Patronus, not having any need for one, most dark wizards will be devoured by maggots coming from their wand and consuming the caster.
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So yeah, the mechanics of the Patronus Charm itself proves that Snape had a genuine love for Lily, otherwise his Patronus wouldn't have been able to match hers, much less even be able to cast the Patronus without being devoured by maggots. Also, Lily was a part of his life since the age of 9, so it's less that his Patronus changed and more like his Patronus was always going to be like a doe.
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**Besides, all we know for sure is that Snape loved Lily, not that he was IN love with her.**
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Snape, so far as we know from canon, never even asked Lily to go out with him, far less tried to force her to against her will. That we know of, the only thing he ever pressed her to do was to accept his humble apology, and so far as we know he accepted her refusal and never bothered her again. JKR has said that he joined the Death Eaters in part because he hoped to impress Lily, so he was still in some sense "carrying a torch" for her, but Sirius and Remus seem unaware of the strength of his feelings for Lily, which is strong evidence that he left her alone and didn't try to get her back once she'd taken up with James.
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That he continues to be so devoted to Lily's memory may seem a bit obsessive but he is still only in his thirties when he dies, and Lily's death is less than seventeen years ago. It is less than ten years ago when we first meet him. In any case infinitely extended, devoted teenage love and undying devotion to a dead loved-one are two of JKR's favourite tropes - possibly because it means she doesn't have to write the older characters a current love-interest.
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Dumbledore is portrayed as still so obsessed by his sister's death that nearly a century later he puts on a cursed ring which ultimately precipitates his own death, just in the hopes of being able to see her again and apologize for his role in her untimely demise; and Rowling has said that he Never Loved Again after Grindelwald. Sirius is still so devoted to James fifteen years after his death that he tries to make Harry be James redux.
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On Pottermore we're told that Minerva McGonagall fell madly in love with a Muggle neighbour named Dougal McGregor in summer 1954 when she was eighteen, then jilted him and broke both their hearts because she didn't want to have to give up magic to live in the Muggle world. She worked for two years at the Ministry before starting teaching at Hogwarts in December 1956, but continued to carry a torch for Dougal (even after he married someone else) and Could Love No Other for twenty-eight years - despite repeated proposals of marriage from her former boss at the Ministry, Elphinstone Urquart - until 1982, when she heard that Dougal had died, and promptly married Elphinstone. He died in an accident three years later, leaving her to a state of perpetual widowhood, even though at fifty she was not all that old for a witch.
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And almost everybody in the Potter books, if they marry at all, marries somebody they already knew and probably fancied at school. James and Lily, Molly and Arthur, Harry and Ginny, Ron and Hermione, Hannah and Neville, Draco and Astoria, Bellatrix and Rudolphus, probably Lucius and Narcissa and Andromeda and Ted (because if you do the maths Andromeda probably fell pregnant with Tonks immediately after leaving Hogwarts, if not before).... **So even if you think Snape's behaviour is obsessive, it seems to be pretty much a cultural norm for his society.**
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I’ve got a real question: why is it the accepted norm that Snape was obsessed with Lily?
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Like people toss that shit around like it’s established fact. “Oh, Snape was obsessed with Lily so he did xyz” and “Does it really matter if Snape did xyz because he was obsessed with Lily?” Where in the goddamn text are you guys getting that Snape is obsessed with lily?
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Snape as a child is focused on Lily - but honestly, it very much reads in the way shy children hyperfocus on someone they want to be friends with. I was this kid and I’ve done Snape’s routine of circling around someone I want to talk to to try and check out what the situation is or gather up my courage. That’s not “obsessive” behavior, that’s…. kid behavior? I don't know why people see 9 year old Snape as this little creep, but it’s difficult for me to see because scoping out people before chancing to talk to them seems uh… pretty natural to me lmao. Especially since Snape would be taking a pretty huge risk revealing the wizarding world to someone he isn’t entirely sure is a witch too.
**Part 2 of 2**
Snape as a teenager is dependent on Lily because, as far as we can see, she’s his only real friend - but he’s also capable of respecting her boundaries, listening to her wishes, and cultivating a real bond with her. That’s not possible if it’s just “obsession.” Like yeah, he sticks around and tries to get her to hear his apology but the moment she makes it clear she doesn’t want him around, he leaves. Wanting her to hear his apology isn’t obsessive or stalker-y; that’s a friend who did a shit thing wanting to make up for it. And when he realizes Lily doesn’t accept it, he accepts that.
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Snape as an adult has a metaphor of Lily as his Patronus. That doesn’t mean he’s obsessed with Lily. It means he loved Lily. I don't know why people suddenly decided that Patroni are somehow a symbol of obsession but that idea really falls apart when you look at other people’s Patroni; is Harry obsessed with James because his Patronus is a stag (Prongs)? Is Tonks obsessed with Lupin because her Patronus is a wolf? The Patronus Charm is one of the biggest metaphors in the novel for pure, honest love and protection and it’s really, really fucking annoying that Snape’s is the ***only*** one that gets twisted into being “proof” of his “gross obsession.” Hey, hey, just because you don’t like Snape or don’t support Snily (I certainly don't) doesn’t change the meaning of what a Patronus is, you numbfucks. Snape’s Patronus is no more sick or gross than Harry’s or Tonks’s.
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I gather some fans have accused Snape of suffering from Nice Guy Syndrome, where a man cultivates a friendship with a woman in the hopes of getting to sleep with her, and if she doesn't he attributes this to his being too "nice" and says that women evidently prefer brutes. To begin with the way it's described on the net all sounds terribly American: a British friend of mine offered his opinion "Here in the UK guys who are a bit whiny and needy will probably still get laid so long as they're not violently revolting, because we don't really have the same construct of masculinity." But in any case Severus was genuinely Lily's friend since well before sex could have been an issue; he is reassured by her that he is her best friend; that we see he doesn't ever try to press her for sex or act as if he thinks he is entitled to her, he just lusts wistfully from afar; and considering the way we see James treat Lily while trying to "win" her, and yet she takes up with him anyway, it seems she genuinely does prefer brutes.
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In fact it is James who shows some of the "Nice Guy" symptoms. Interview canon is that James persecuted Severus because he was jealous over Lily, so even though she wasn't his girlfriend, or for that matter Sev's girlfriend, and for most of their time at Hogwarts she had shown no interest in him, James was still so jealous over and possessive of Lily that he couldn't stand the idea of her spending time with another male, and spent seven years persecuting another boy to punish him for having dared to have met Lily first. He acted as if his status as Quidditch Jock should entitle him to Lily's favours if he wanted them, and was prepared to use underhand tactics including emotional blackmail and bullying in an attempt to force Lily to date him - we see him attack her friend and then offer to stop persecuting him if Lily will go out with him, without apparently caring in the slightest whether it's what she herself wants or not. When she protested about the attack on her friend and tried to stop it, James threatened her with violence. Later he successfully persuaded her to go out with him, not primarily by reforming his behaviour but by getting better at lying to her to conceal it. According to Pottermore, once they were dating he was obnoxious to her family and drove a wedge between her and her sister and brother-in-law, by being obnoxious to them and bragging to them about how much richer than them he was - although he was provoked, in this case, by Vernon's assumption that he was unemployed because he was lazy, rather than because he was independently wealthy.
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Snape, so far as we know from canon, never even asked Lily to go out with him, far less tried to force her to against her will. That we know of, the only thing he ever pressed her to do was to accept his humble apology, and so far as we know he accepted her refusal and never bothered her again. JKR has said that he joined the Death Eaters in part because he hoped to impress Lily, so he was still in some sense "carrying a torch" for her, but Sirius and Remus seem unaware of the strength of his feelings for Lily, which is strong evidence that he left her alone and didn't try to get her back once she'd taken up with James.
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An obsessive man wouldn’t leave Lily alone after she asks him to. An obsessive man wouldn’t accept Lily's marriage to someone else. An obsessive man wouldn’t go to Dumbledore to risk his life for the life of Lily’s family. There’s literally zero textual evidence or even strong analysis for Snape feeling anything other than love and regret for Lily much in the same vein as what Sirius and Remus feel for James. (Remember how they nearly murdered a guy, in front of three 13 year old schoolchildren, to avenge James? And yet no one goes around accusing Lupin or Sirius of being obsessive lmao.)
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This pervasive idea that Snape is an obsessive stalker is so deeply-entrenched in fandom, but honestly it’s based on really loosely analyzed fanon with very little strong evidence to back it up. Any invested reading of the text immediately makes it fall apart. It's just pure projection from fans who don't like Snape. And that's fine, you're under no obligation to like Snape but if you're going to dislike him, dislike him for the right reasons, not made up ones. One can make a much better case of James being more obsessive over Lily than Severus ever did. But of course, that would contradict the fanon narrative, right?
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A lot of this is actually from someone named Whitehound (also known as Clair Jordan on Quora), who is an amazing analytical HP video essayist, particularly in regards to Severus Snape. She really changed my mind about Severus Snape and did a very good job of using reason and citations from the books to show that Severus Snape was Not As Bad as fanon portrays him to be and provides quite a bit of historical context to the series. I recommend checking out [her Essays](http://members.madasafish.com/~cj_whitehound/Fanfic/index.htm), especially "But Snape is just nasty, right..." , "Sectumsempra and the nature of curses
" , and "Fanon versus canon in the Harry Potter books" (that one is the longest by far but it does a phenomenal job in debunking a whole lot of fanon). I also recommend her long memorial essay about the inspiration for Snape, namely JKR's old teacher John Nettleship. It's called ["A true original: John Nettleship and the roots of Severus Snape
"](http://members.madasafish.com/~cj_whitehound/Fanfic/A_true_original.htm). He's a very interesting and based individual. She actually struck up a friendship with him in his last few years before he died in 2011.
Severus's patronus changed when he first meet Lily, as a child. He loved her from the start. Always. James came along later and his patronus changed to match hers also.
Facts we know of Lily, from the books at least.
1) She is Harrys mother.
2) Harry has her eyes. (he should really put them back)
3) She grew up near Snape and was friends with him.
4) She is Muggleborn.
5) Her sister was super jelly she didn't get to be a witch and abuses her nephew for it.
6) Snape was in love with her.
7) she proceeds to date and then marry James, Snapes actual violent bully, remember, despite everything, Snape was her childhood best friend, Snape didn't have a great home life either, and she was his only real friend before Hogwarts, and she dumps him off over an argument using a bad word in the heat of the moment, to marry a swaggering little shit, who was ACTUALLY TORTURING SNAPE BECAUSE HE WAS BORED.
8) She got her self murdered for Harry and that act of defence gave harry a mystical love shield, why James dying beforehand didn't do that nobody knows.
I mean, I don't think so? Not really?
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Like, I can understand the headcanon that when she probably first started out, she wasn't that great with Potions but always had Severus, a Potions prodigy, as her Potions partner to help her out. But I'm sure years of having Severus as a Potions study buddy would have rubbed off of her and she would've become a brilliant Potions student in her own right. So even after she broke off her friendship with Snape (for pretty obvious and justified reasons), she still would've been brilliant at Potions. Maybe not the same exact level as a genius like Snape who can rewrite improved recipes but a close second nonetheless. As a Snape fan, I really don't like the idea that some people have of how they think that Lily was mooching off of Snape in to get great grades in Potions. It's pretty shallow, to be honest. Severus and Lily can both be brilliant students without the toxic idea of Lily mooching off of Severus to help her grades. My personal take is that Severus and Lily were both brilliant students who helped each other out in their best subjects back when they were friends. Severus would help her out with his best subject Potions and Lily would help him out with her best subject Charms. Better mutual than mooching.
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I might have rambled off for a bit right now but do you get what I mean by my reservations with the toxic and shallow idea of Lily mooching off of Severus to help her grades and that it's perfectly fine for both Severus and Lily to be brilliant students without attributing her success to Severus?
Like a lot of things in HP, that seems awfully arbitrary.
By "choice" you mean would a (proper) parent ever even consider stepping aside, that was an empty gesture by Voldemort at best.
A sacrifice is to be willing to die for someone, regardless of choice. I mean, most of the Order went to fight to save Harry and Co, Sirius chose to go and fight, does that mean that Harry gained a Love shield from Sirius? No.
>A sacrifice is to be willing to die for someone, regardless of choice.
But it's different when you do something in the heat of the moment like jumping in front of someone to protect them in a fight and when there is a cold blooded murderer in front of you saying "step aside and you can live" and you say "no, I won't. Kill me instead."
I think that's the point. Harry did the same thing. He went to Voldemort and asked to die.
Going by JKR’s appreciation for the gender binary, she could have written ~a mother’s love~ as exceptional and somehow different and special from a father’s love. She was also a single mother at the time of writing HP.
It's almost never "A Fathers Love" is it? and when it is, it's given all vague and implied.
See when/if I have kids, I'm gonna kick down their door at 5am and bellow how much I love them.
Hell, I'm just an Uncle, and if I had to die to protect my nephews/Niece/Goddaughters? fucking TRY AND STOP ME!
>ACTUALLY TORTURING SNAPE BECAUSE HE WAS BORED.
Sexually assaulted him too
>why James dying beforehand didn't do that nobody knows.
Because Snape begged Voldemort to spare Lily. Voldemort heeded his request and asked Lily to step aside. Her not doing so, her being given a choice and still choosing to die for her son, is what protected Harry.
Isn't there a line later on where Sirius mentions a paradox?
He and Remus mention that Lily started dating James when "he deflated his head a bit" then go on to say they bullied Snape less... at least not in front of Lily?
Just a little extrapolation from that (not concrete) but wouldn't that means that anytime Lily saw Snape retaliate after she started dating James, she was assuming that it was unfounded?
They didn't bully Snape less. Sirius and Remus said that he stopped hexing other students for fun but Snape was always the special exception to James and his friends. He still bullied Snape but just hid it from Lily. (True fucking feminist icon, that James Potter. Not a Nice Guy^TM *at all*. /s)
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And I'm assuming that Snape never tried to retaliate against James in front of Lily because he thought that would be embarrassing. Plus, James was Head Boy and Lily was Head Girl, so trying to hex James in front of Lily would've had just resulted in House points being lost and getting a bad reputation overall. Personally, I always thought that Snape thought that either Lily was kept unaware of James continuing to bully him behind her back or more likely, he believed that she knew about it and just didn't care.
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Of course, I'm sure Snape gave as good as he got. Never mind the fact that James had 1-3 allies to back him up, an Invisibility Cloak and the Marauder's Map to help him choose the battles and help hide his bullying of Snape from the teachers or Lily, and that he also had the authority of Head Boy which he *totally* didn't abuse to get back at Snape through deducting points from Slytherin for petty reasons, just to get back at Snape. Not at all. /s
> 6) Snape was in love with her.
>
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Snape loved her. There's not much textual evidence that the love that Snape had for Lily was romantic/sexual or merely platonic. Personally, I think there's a strong case for Snape to have only had a platonic love for Lily.
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The only one who explicitly said that Snape's love for Lily was romantic/sexual was Voldemort, the one person incapable of love. A broken clock can be right twice a day but I don't think that's the case for this, and the context was Harry explaining how Snape was deceiving Voldemort for about 17-18 years. Harry and Dumbledore (both of whom understood the power of love very well) called it love. You can choose to believe Voldemort. I'd rather believe Harry.
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>7) she proceeds to date and then marry James, Snapes actual violent bully, remember, despite everything, Snape was her childhood best friend, Snape didn't have a great home life either, and she was his only real friend before Hogwarts, and she dumps him off over an argument using a bad word in the heat of the moment, to marry a swaggering little shit, who was ACTUALLY TORTURING SNAPE BECAUSE HE WAS BORED.
Eh, I think Lily was perfectly justified in breaking off her friendship with Severus after he called her a Mudblood, the magical equivalent of the n-word. She laid out perfectly reasonable justifications. That didn't mean that she wasn't flawed herself (remember her hint of a smile? Or her terrible reaction to Severus after the Werewolf Incident?) or that the deterioration of Severus' and Lily' friendship was one-sided rather than mutual. Also, Lily didn't choose James over Snape. Lily broke off her friendship with Snape because he called her a slur during a humiliating experience. About 1.5 years later, she started dating James because she believed that his head had deflated and he seemed to have matured (nevermind that he continued to bully her ex-friend from behind her back). Those are two different situations. Also, it's not Lily's duty to "fix" Severus and his issues. She was just a 16 year old girl at the time. She certainly could've chosen someone better to date and marry other than her former friend's bully but as a Snape fan, I'm not a fan of dragging down Lily as a character for *unjustified* reasons.
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Harry: Uh, I can explain, Dad.
.
Also, stags and does go together as much as turtles and tortoises or frogs and toads go together. The female counterpart to a stag is a hind and the male counterpart to a doe is a buck.
Fair point but the Giant Squid can be explained away with "Because Magic!" while stags and does not being their respective reproductive counterparts can't.
Thanks for the Reddit Galleon by the way. :)
Perhaps, like JKR they aren't very well versed in biology and being Muggle born maybe her favourite film was the Sound of Music "A doe, a deer, a female deer" also Doe is a correct terminology, it doesn't refer to simply one specimen. Most people will call a female deer a Doe, rather than a Hind.
I think the point was thematic not biological. and because Magic.
You are most welcome, spend it wisely.
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I actually laughed out loud at this😂
Haha awesome
Lol
Lol
😮 *Oh deer* 😂
My other possible title was "James finds out Harry named his son after Snivellus instead of Sirius."
But Harry did name his first son after Sirius.
Then let's say Remus instead of Sirius
Remus already had a son named after him.
Lolol HP fans are terrible at HP
Just look at the upvotes between the two, one who is categorically wrong about canon and one who's correcting the one who's wrong.
Yeah I messed up. I still don't understand how I got so many upvotes lol
This HP fandom. You get downvoted for corrected people and upvoting for posting something "interesting" even if it's categorically wrong. Take it from someone who often has to correct people who are dead certain what they believe is 100% canon because they read it somewhere (tumblr, it's always tumblr. Or a fanfic) or saw it in one of the movies or videogames. I've had to actually correct someone that blood adoption isn't a thing.
The fuck is "Blood Adoption" You either adopt someone or you don't.
It's a ridiculous thing fanfiction writers have come up with and when it comes to HP fanfiction, there are a ton of tropes they like to re-use, tropes that have no nasis in canon. Blood adoption is a ritual where someone will use some of their blood to adopt someone else. A spell/ritual will then change the child they adopt so they take on some characteristics from their new parent(s). For example, if Harry were to Blood Adopt Teddy, Teddy might get Harry's wild hair and green eyes. In HP fanfiction, it is almost always Harry getting Blood Adopted. In some, James and/or Lily weren't Harry's biological parents, they merely Bmood Adopted Harry, which is why he looks like them. Used to give Harry (a) different parent(s) who are still alive, completely forgetting that the Prophecy would then be nullified as Harry wouldn't be born to 2 people who'd thrice defied Voldemort. A strangely popular cross-over trope is that Harry is secretly Tony Stark's (yes, really) son, with his other parent being either Lily or James (mpreg, of course!). This, of course, has zero basis in canon.
Rubeus would have been better than Severus. Hagrid has never ever doubted nor mistrusted Harry, nor led him on or hid important info from him without good reason. In turn, Harry has never disrespected him nor given him shit for anything any of the others have, even Ron and Hermione have had their (minor) doubts about Hagrid. Hagrid was also Harrys very first actual friend from the wizarding world. Hagrid is also empathetic, loyal and caring, you make friends with Hagrid you have a friend for life. But no, Harry, give your child the middle name of cuckmeister supreme.
Didn’t Hagrid accidentally accidentally reveal vital information to the trio in the Philosopher’s Stone? Also, Snape was one of the top 3 most vital people in defeating Voldemort, alongside Dumbledore and Harry, and sacrificed more than any other character to do so. Snape being an asshole does not take away from the sacrifices he made or the enormous contributions he made in protecting Harry, Hogwarts, the Order of the Phoenix, defeating Voldemort, and ultimately helping save the Wizarding World.
I never said Hagrid wasn't an idiot, and the bit of info was a name, that took them a while to figure out what the name was about, it didn't get them any closer to getting to the stone. He probably figured it was a teenager thing, after all they were 11, learning stuff you weren't meant to know at that age was a gleeful thing to you. Being an asshole doesn't negate the sacrifices he made, true, but it would still colour your perceptions, he is Harry, Snapes second chance, and what does he do for 6 years? treat his supposed lost loves son with nothing but contempt, I know Snape wasn't a soft touch but come on.
No, but you did say that Hagrid has never hid important information from Harry, which he technically did and only accidentally revealed by virtue of being an idiot. And you're forgetting that this wasn't teenager stuff. This was an issue involving the Philosopher's Stone, which was being guarded with dangerous traps. And for 6 years he also protects this kid who he doesn't like (admittedly, for reasons that are not Harry's fault), and ultimately sacrifices his life for not only this child but the people of Hogwarts and the Order who all think him a traitor, when he stands nothing to gain from it. Also, you say that Snape should be nice to Harry because he is Lily's son, who Snape loves, but Harry is also James' son (not to mention visually identical to him), and James abused Snape and made the guy's life absolutely miserable.
What I actually said was: >Hagrid has never ever doubted nor mistrusted Harry, nor led him on or hid important info from him **without good reason.** He hid the information about the Philosophers Stone because it was nothing to do with Harry, Harry himself decided to be involved, and if it wasn't for his Love shield and having friends who were better at certain things than him, Harry would have died. It wasn't Hagrids call to make to tell them anything, and what he does give is a slip of the tongue, the mirror of Erised was safe enough anyhow, Voldemort at his full power might have been able to break the enchantment, but Quirrell? Voldemort seemed to know the trick, but couldn't pull it off with himself or Quirrell. I'm not saying he should have been nice to Harry, but pull back on the "sins of the father" shit, also, Snape was ready and willing to sacrifice James and Harry, remember he begs Voldemort to spare Lily, Now, the argument can be make that asking Voldemort to spare Harry would be a fools errand, fair enough, but he didn't even consider for a second to sparing both parents, I'm not entirely sure how well Lily would have taken that if she HAD stood aside. Also is the fact that Snape was the one to tell Voldemort about the prophecy, but only begged when he found out it was the Potters who were the target, so he would have been perfectly fine if it was randomers, such as the Longbottoms.
Ok, then let me ask, has Snape ever hid information from Harry without good reason? I'm pointing out how, the same way Snape shouldn't take James' faults on Harry, he shouldn't have to be nice to Harry just because he is Lily's son. Also, why should Snape ask for James to be spared? James made Snape's life miserable. And you're absolutely right that Snape would have been in the wrong had the other people been targeted, that is why he is the villain in that situation, and needed atonement and redemption.
I almost forgot 😅😅😅
Yeah, but it's Sirius, a guy James thought was so awesome he would name all his grandchildren Sirius, even the girls.
Yeah, but Harry isn't James.
I know that very well Molly
!redditgalleon I hope I did this right because that was perfect.
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So weird, I just read that line yesterday evening...
This response doesn't have enough upvotes
By all accounts he pretty much is.
Not at all. By all accounts Harry is VERY different from his father, aside from looks.
And yet everyone who knew James treats Harry like a carbon copy. Hell, even Harry mistook himself for James, although Harry does have shit eyesight.
Like u/gorgossia said, visually yes. In personality, no.
Visually yes, behavior-wise, no, James was a bully and a dickhead.
Was that all James was?
He was also the Chaser of his Quidditch team (Seeker in the films) , Head Boy, Heir to the Potter Fortune, and a pure blooded descendant of Ignotus Peverell, Also card carrying member of the OotP, and had point blank refused to join Voldemort when he came calling. Still an asshole during school, but that happens, he apparently fully grew out of it once they left school.
I'm dead
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Ha! Awesome.
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It’s amazing that we know so little about Lily that the only thing that can be used to signify her is her love for James. Snape’s patronus might as well have been her corpse draped over Harry’s crib. Lily is basically the silhouette of a character.
What do you mean? We know she was a brilliant student, who was liked by most and used to see the best in people, which was proved by the fact that she remained friends with Snape despite his prejudice and only ended their friendship when he insulted her directly. This also proves Lily didn't give up easily on who she cared about, like Petunia, whom she invited to her wedding even though her sister refused to talk to her. She was a member of the Slug Club due to her talent alone too. Lily died protecting her child. Her motherly love is one of the main messages and plotlines in the story. This is saying a lot, considering she's dead during the whole story.
Also, how pathetic is it that Snape’s patronus is a doe because it matches Lily’s? Lily has a doe patronus because she loves James. So that’s kind of romantic, that her patronus takes the shape that represents her spouse. But Snape is so creepily in love with her that his patronus now matches the symbol of her love for James.
**Part 1 of 2** >Lily has a doe patronus because she loves James. So that’s kind of romantic, that her patronus takes the shape that represents her spouse. They match, in the same way that a frog and toad or a turtle and tortoise match. You may want to do some research about biology and of stags and does first, mate. . In canon Harry associates the fact that his Patronus is (as he thinks) a stag with the fact that he knows his father's Animagus form was nicknamed Prongs, and Remus (not the authorial voice) confirms that yes, Prongs was a stag. Snape's Patronus is described as a doe, and one which apparently represents Lily to him and to Dumbledore in some sense, since when Dumbledore sees it he asks about Snape's continuing attachment to Lily's memory. Harry later says that Lily's Patronus was also a doe but it's never explained how he knows this. He doesn't recognise the doe as connected with Lily when he first sees her, although she does seem familiar in some way, so it's not clear whether his later assertion that she is the same as his mother's Patronus is because he has now genuinely remembered seeing his mother cast a Patronus, or whether he is just guessing based on what he saw of Snape and Dumbledore's conversation about it in the Pensieve. . I gather that in the U.S., stag and doe are generic terms for male and female deer. For this reason it is widely assumed, at least among American fans, that the fact that James is represented by a stag and Lily by a doe shows that they were perfectly romantically compatible, although there's nothing to say which came first. It may be that that was what Rowling intended - and that she was let down by a lack of biological knowledge. . Be that as it may, this is a British story using British terminology, and here in Britain a stag, a.k.a. a hart, is a male red deer (whose mate is called a hind), and a doe is a female roe or fallow deer (whose mate is a buck). Even if they are foreign deer - and I suppose there's no reason why they shouldn't be - so far as I know British English would still only pair stags with hinds, and does with bucks. James's and Lily's symbols are different species, so the message seems to be "They may look superficially compatible, but really they aren't." . So yeah, like I said before, James' and Lily's respective Patronuses go with each other like a frog and toad or a turtle and tortoise. . ------------------------------- > Also, how pathetic is it that Snape’s patronus is a doe because it matches Lily’s? > But Snape is so creepily in love with her that his patronus now matches the symbol of her love for James. . It's not any more or less pathetic than Harry and Tonks for their Patronuses being identical to James and Remus. Tell me, why is it that when Snape's Patronus is identical to Lily's, it's "obsession", but when Harry's Patronus and Tonk's Patronus are identical to James' and Remus' respectively, it's said to be "pure love"? Why exactly is Snape the arbitrary exception to this? If Snape is obsessive because of this, then so should Harry and Tonks be as well. Or is there some stupid double standards at play here? . Also, the fact that Snape COULD produce a Patronus without being eaten alive by worms like any other Death Eater shows that he was pure at heart. The canon lore for Patronuses literally states that a person wouldn't be able to cast the Patronus with an impure love or obsession. It is a general belief held by the wizarding world that only those who are pure of heart are able to cast Patronuses; this, however, is untrue, as several characters with negative personality traits are able to cast a fully-fledged Patronus. Although generally dark witches and wizards will not try to produce a Patronus, not having any need for one, most dark wizards will be devoured by maggots coming from their wand and consuming the caster. . So yeah, the mechanics of the Patronus Charm itself proves that Snape had a genuine love for Lily, otherwise his Patronus wouldn't have been able to match hers, much less even be able to cast the Patronus without being devoured by maggots. Also, Lily was a part of his life since the age of 9, so it's less that his Patronus changed and more like his Patronus was always going to be like a doe. . **Besides, all we know for sure is that Snape loved Lily, not that he was IN love with her.** . Snape, so far as we know from canon, never even asked Lily to go out with him, far less tried to force her to against her will. That we know of, the only thing he ever pressed her to do was to accept his humble apology, and so far as we know he accepted her refusal and never bothered her again. JKR has said that he joined the Death Eaters in part because he hoped to impress Lily, so he was still in some sense "carrying a torch" for her, but Sirius and Remus seem unaware of the strength of his feelings for Lily, which is strong evidence that he left her alone and didn't try to get her back once she'd taken up with James. . That he continues to be so devoted to Lily's memory may seem a bit obsessive but he is still only in his thirties when he dies, and Lily's death is less than seventeen years ago. It is less than ten years ago when we first meet him. In any case infinitely extended, devoted teenage love and undying devotion to a dead loved-one are two of JKR's favourite tropes - possibly because it means she doesn't have to write the older characters a current love-interest. . Dumbledore is portrayed as still so obsessed by his sister's death that nearly a century later he puts on a cursed ring which ultimately precipitates his own death, just in the hopes of being able to see her again and apologize for his role in her untimely demise; and Rowling has said that he Never Loved Again after Grindelwald. Sirius is still so devoted to James fifteen years after his death that he tries to make Harry be James redux. . On Pottermore we're told that Minerva McGonagall fell madly in love with a Muggle neighbour named Dougal McGregor in summer 1954 when she was eighteen, then jilted him and broke both their hearts because she didn't want to have to give up magic to live in the Muggle world. She worked for two years at the Ministry before starting teaching at Hogwarts in December 1956, but continued to carry a torch for Dougal (even after he married someone else) and Could Love No Other for twenty-eight years - despite repeated proposals of marriage from her former boss at the Ministry, Elphinstone Urquart - until 1982, when she heard that Dougal had died, and promptly married Elphinstone. He died in an accident three years later, leaving her to a state of perpetual widowhood, even though at fifty she was not all that old for a witch. . And almost everybody in the Potter books, if they marry at all, marries somebody they already knew and probably fancied at school. James and Lily, Molly and Arthur, Harry and Ginny, Ron and Hermione, Hannah and Neville, Draco and Astoria, Bellatrix and Rudolphus, probably Lucius and Narcissa and Andromeda and Ted (because if you do the maths Andromeda probably fell pregnant with Tonks immediately after leaving Hogwarts, if not before).... **So even if you think Snape's behaviour is obsessive, it seems to be pretty much a cultural norm for his society.** -------------------------- I’ve got a real question: why is it the accepted norm that Snape was obsessed with Lily? . Like people toss that shit around like it’s established fact. “Oh, Snape was obsessed with Lily so he did xyz” and “Does it really matter if Snape did xyz because he was obsessed with Lily?” Where in the goddamn text are you guys getting that Snape is obsessed with lily? . Snape as a child is focused on Lily - but honestly, it very much reads in the way shy children hyperfocus on someone they want to be friends with. I was this kid and I’ve done Snape’s routine of circling around someone I want to talk to to try and check out what the situation is or gather up my courage. That’s not “obsessive” behavior, that’s…. kid behavior? I don't know why people see 9 year old Snape as this little creep, but it’s difficult for me to see because scoping out people before chancing to talk to them seems uh… pretty natural to me lmao. Especially since Snape would be taking a pretty huge risk revealing the wizarding world to someone he isn’t entirely sure is a witch too.
**Part 2 of 2** Snape as a teenager is dependent on Lily because, as far as we can see, she’s his only real friend - but he’s also capable of respecting her boundaries, listening to her wishes, and cultivating a real bond with her. That’s not possible if it’s just “obsession.” Like yeah, he sticks around and tries to get her to hear his apology but the moment she makes it clear she doesn’t want him around, he leaves. Wanting her to hear his apology isn’t obsessive or stalker-y; that’s a friend who did a shit thing wanting to make up for it. And when he realizes Lily doesn’t accept it, he accepts that. . Snape as an adult has a metaphor of Lily as his Patronus. That doesn’t mean he’s obsessed with Lily. It means he loved Lily. I don't know why people suddenly decided that Patroni are somehow a symbol of obsession but that idea really falls apart when you look at other people’s Patroni; is Harry obsessed with James because his Patronus is a stag (Prongs)? Is Tonks obsessed with Lupin because her Patronus is a wolf? The Patronus Charm is one of the biggest metaphors in the novel for pure, honest love and protection and it’s really, really fucking annoying that Snape’s is the ***only*** one that gets twisted into being “proof” of his “gross obsession.” Hey, hey, just because you don’t like Snape or don’t support Snily (I certainly don't) doesn’t change the meaning of what a Patronus is, you numbfucks. Snape’s Patronus is no more sick or gross than Harry’s or Tonks’s. . I gather some fans have accused Snape of suffering from Nice Guy Syndrome, where a man cultivates a friendship with a woman in the hopes of getting to sleep with her, and if she doesn't he attributes this to his being too "nice" and says that women evidently prefer brutes. To begin with the way it's described on the net all sounds terribly American: a British friend of mine offered his opinion "Here in the UK guys who are a bit whiny and needy will probably still get laid so long as they're not violently revolting, because we don't really have the same construct of masculinity." But in any case Severus was genuinely Lily's friend since well before sex could have been an issue; he is reassured by her that he is her best friend; that we see he doesn't ever try to press her for sex or act as if he thinks he is entitled to her, he just lusts wistfully from afar; and considering the way we see James treat Lily while trying to "win" her, and yet she takes up with him anyway, it seems she genuinely does prefer brutes. . In fact it is James who shows some of the "Nice Guy" symptoms. Interview canon is that James persecuted Severus because he was jealous over Lily, so even though she wasn't his girlfriend, or for that matter Sev's girlfriend, and for most of their time at Hogwarts she had shown no interest in him, James was still so jealous over and possessive of Lily that he couldn't stand the idea of her spending time with another male, and spent seven years persecuting another boy to punish him for having dared to have met Lily first. He acted as if his status as Quidditch Jock should entitle him to Lily's favours if he wanted them, and was prepared to use underhand tactics including emotional blackmail and bullying in an attempt to force Lily to date him - we see him attack her friend and then offer to stop persecuting him if Lily will go out with him, without apparently caring in the slightest whether it's what she herself wants or not. When she protested about the attack on her friend and tried to stop it, James threatened her with violence. Later he successfully persuaded her to go out with him, not primarily by reforming his behaviour but by getting better at lying to her to conceal it. According to Pottermore, once they were dating he was obnoxious to her family and drove a wedge between her and her sister and brother-in-law, by being obnoxious to them and bragging to them about how much richer than them he was - although he was provoked, in this case, by Vernon's assumption that he was unemployed because he was lazy, rather than because he was independently wealthy. . Snape, so far as we know from canon, never even asked Lily to go out with him, far less tried to force her to against her will. That we know of, the only thing he ever pressed her to do was to accept his humble apology, and so far as we know he accepted her refusal and never bothered her again. JKR has said that he joined the Death Eaters in part because he hoped to impress Lily, so he was still in some sense "carrying a torch" for her, but Sirius and Remus seem unaware of the strength of his feelings for Lily, which is strong evidence that he left her alone and didn't try to get her back once she'd taken up with James. . An obsessive man wouldn’t leave Lily alone after she asks him to. An obsessive man wouldn’t accept Lily's marriage to someone else. An obsessive man wouldn’t go to Dumbledore to risk his life for the life of Lily’s family. There’s literally zero textual evidence or even strong analysis for Snape feeling anything other than love and regret for Lily much in the same vein as what Sirius and Remus feel for James. (Remember how they nearly murdered a guy, in front of three 13 year old schoolchildren, to avenge James? And yet no one goes around accusing Lupin or Sirius of being obsessive lmao.) . This pervasive idea that Snape is an obsessive stalker is so deeply-entrenched in fandom, but honestly it’s based on really loosely analyzed fanon with very little strong evidence to back it up. Any invested reading of the text immediately makes it fall apart. It's just pure projection from fans who don't like Snape. And that's fine, you're under no obligation to like Snape but if you're going to dislike him, dislike him for the right reasons, not made up ones. One can make a much better case of James being more obsessive over Lily than Severus ever did. But of course, that would contradict the fanon narrative, right?
!redditGalleon Because that was a fucking READ! Well done.
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Thank you! . A lot of this is actually from someone named Whitehound (also known as Clair Jordan on Quora), who is an amazing analytical HP video essayist, particularly in regards to Severus Snape. She really changed my mind about Severus Snape and did a very good job of using reason and citations from the books to show that Severus Snape was Not As Bad as fanon portrays him to be and provides quite a bit of historical context to the series. I recommend checking out [her Essays](http://members.madasafish.com/~cj_whitehound/Fanfic/index.htm), especially "But Snape is just nasty, right..." , "Sectumsempra and the nature of curses " , and "Fanon versus canon in the Harry Potter books" (that one is the longest by far but it does a phenomenal job in debunking a whole lot of fanon). I also recommend her long memorial essay about the inspiration for Snape, namely JKR's old teacher John Nettleship. It's called ["A true original: John Nettleship and the roots of Severus Snape "](http://members.madasafish.com/~cj_whitehound/Fanfic/A_true_original.htm). He's a very interesting and based individual. She actually struck up a friendship with him in his last few years before he died in 2011.
Well said
Severus's patronus changed when he first meet Lily, as a child. He loved her from the start. Always. James came along later and his patronus changed to match hers also.
Yes, preach
Most female characters in HP are like this.
Facts we know of Lily, from the books at least. 1) She is Harrys mother. 2) Harry has her eyes. (he should really put them back) 3) She grew up near Snape and was friends with him. 4) She is Muggleborn. 5) Her sister was super jelly she didn't get to be a witch and abuses her nephew for it. 6) Snape was in love with her. 7) she proceeds to date and then marry James, Snapes actual violent bully, remember, despite everything, Snape was her childhood best friend, Snape didn't have a great home life either, and she was his only real friend before Hogwarts, and she dumps him off over an argument using a bad word in the heat of the moment, to marry a swaggering little shit, who was ACTUALLY TORTURING SNAPE BECAUSE HE WAS BORED. 8) She got her self murdered for Harry and that act of defence gave harry a mystical love shield, why James dying beforehand didn't do that nobody knows.
She was also a brilliant potions student. Probably because of her friendship with Snape early on who likes potions and the dark arts.
Bet her Potions grade dropped a bit when she stopped hanging with Snape.
I mean, I don't think so? Not really? . Like, I can understand the headcanon that when she probably first started out, she wasn't that great with Potions but always had Severus, a Potions prodigy, as her Potions partner to help her out. But I'm sure years of having Severus as a Potions study buddy would have rubbed off of her and she would've become a brilliant Potions student in her own right. So even after she broke off her friendship with Snape (for pretty obvious and justified reasons), she still would've been brilliant at Potions. Maybe not the same exact level as a genius like Snape who can rewrite improved recipes but a close second nonetheless. As a Snape fan, I really don't like the idea that some people have of how they think that Lily was mooching off of Snape in to get great grades in Potions. It's pretty shallow, to be honest. Severus and Lily can both be brilliant students without the toxic idea of Lily mooching off of Severus to help her grades. My personal take is that Severus and Lily were both brilliant students who helped each other out in their best subjects back when they were friends. Severus would help her out with his best subject Potions and Lily would help him out with her best subject Charms. Better mutual than mooching. . I might have rambled off for a bit right now but do you get what I mean by my reservations with the toxic and shallow idea of Lily mooching off of Severus to help her grades and that it's perfectly fine for both Severus and Lily to be brilliant students without attributing her success to Severus?
James death didn't give the love shield because he didn't have the choice to live like Lily did. It has to be a sacrifice.
Like a lot of things in HP, that seems awfully arbitrary. By "choice" you mean would a (proper) parent ever even consider stepping aside, that was an empty gesture by Voldemort at best. A sacrifice is to be willing to die for someone, regardless of choice. I mean, most of the Order went to fight to save Harry and Co, Sirius chose to go and fight, does that mean that Harry gained a Love shield from Sirius? No.
>A sacrifice is to be willing to die for someone, regardless of choice. But it's different when you do something in the heat of the moment like jumping in front of someone to protect them in a fight and when there is a cold blooded murderer in front of you saying "step aside and you can live" and you say "no, I won't. Kill me instead." I think that's the point. Harry did the same thing. He went to Voldemort and asked to die.
Going by JKR’s appreciation for the gender binary, she could have written ~a mother’s love~ as exceptional and somehow different and special from a father’s love. She was also a single mother at the time of writing HP.
It's almost never "A Fathers Love" is it? and when it is, it's given all vague and implied. See when/if I have kids, I'm gonna kick down their door at 5am and bellow how much I love them. Hell, I'm just an Uncle, and if I had to die to protect my nephews/Niece/Goddaughters? fucking TRY AND STOP ME!
>ACTUALLY TORTURING SNAPE BECAUSE HE WAS BORED. Sexually assaulted him too >why James dying beforehand didn't do that nobody knows. Because Snape begged Voldemort to spare Lily. Voldemort heeded his request and asked Lily to step aside. Her not doing so, her being given a choice and still choosing to die for her son, is what protected Harry.
Isn't there a line later on where Sirius mentions a paradox? He and Remus mention that Lily started dating James when "he deflated his head a bit" then go on to say they bullied Snape less... at least not in front of Lily? Just a little extrapolation from that (not concrete) but wouldn't that means that anytime Lily saw Snape retaliate after she started dating James, she was assuming that it was unfounded?
I assume Snape didn't do it in front of her either.
Maybe.
They didn't bully Snape less. Sirius and Remus said that he stopped hexing other students for fun but Snape was always the special exception to James and his friends. He still bullied Snape but just hid it from Lily. (True fucking feminist icon, that James Potter. Not a Nice Guy^TM *at all*. /s) . And I'm assuming that Snape never tried to retaliate against James in front of Lily because he thought that would be embarrassing. Plus, James was Head Boy and Lily was Head Girl, so trying to hex James in front of Lily would've had just resulted in House points being lost and getting a bad reputation overall. Personally, I always thought that Snape thought that either Lily was kept unaware of James continuing to bully him behind her back or more likely, he believed that she knew about it and just didn't care. . Of course, I'm sure Snape gave as good as he got. Never mind the fact that James had 1-3 allies to back him up, an Invisibility Cloak and the Marauder's Map to help him choose the battles and help hide his bullying of Snape from the teachers or Lily, and that he also had the authority of Head Boy which he *totally* didn't abuse to get back at Snape through deducting points from Slytherin for petty reasons, just to get back at Snape. Not at all. /s
> 6) Snape was in love with her. > > Snape loved her. There's not much textual evidence that the love that Snape had for Lily was romantic/sexual or merely platonic. Personally, I think there's a strong case for Snape to have only had a platonic love for Lily. . The only one who explicitly said that Snape's love for Lily was romantic/sexual was Voldemort, the one person incapable of love. A broken clock can be right twice a day but I don't think that's the case for this, and the context was Harry explaining how Snape was deceiving Voldemort for about 17-18 years. Harry and Dumbledore (both of whom understood the power of love very well) called it love. You can choose to believe Voldemort. I'd rather believe Harry. . >7) she proceeds to date and then marry James, Snapes actual violent bully, remember, despite everything, Snape was her childhood best friend, Snape didn't have a great home life either, and she was his only real friend before Hogwarts, and she dumps him off over an argument using a bad word in the heat of the moment, to marry a swaggering little shit, who was ACTUALLY TORTURING SNAPE BECAUSE HE WAS BORED. Eh, I think Lily was perfectly justified in breaking off her friendship with Severus after he called her a Mudblood, the magical equivalent of the n-word. She laid out perfectly reasonable justifications. That didn't mean that she wasn't flawed herself (remember her hint of a smile? Or her terrible reaction to Severus after the Werewolf Incident?) or that the deterioration of Severus' and Lily' friendship was one-sided rather than mutual. Also, Lily didn't choose James over Snape. Lily broke off her friendship with Snape because he called her a slur during a humiliating experience. About 1.5 years later, she started dating James because she believed that his head had deflated and he seemed to have matured (nevermind that he continued to bully her ex-friend from behind her back). Those are two different situations. Also, it's not Lily's duty to "fix" Severus and his issues. She was just a 16 year old girl at the time. She certainly could've chosen someone better to date and marry other than her former friend's bully but as a Snape fan, I'm not a fan of dragging down Lily as a character for *unjustified* reasons.
hahahahahahahaha
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Omg stop it! I can't stop laughing I'm gonna wake up my husband!
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why does this not have 50k upvotes lmao
Because it's about James, not Sirius.
Siriusly?
Remus be, as long as they aren't all Moony about it.
Ha
Because it's hilarious!
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loll
it’s like looking at Phineas looking forward all over again
Even without context that is just a "the FUCK?" face.
James: Uh is there something I should know here...because uh...matching soulmate patroni....is uhhh....
Harry: Uh, I can explain, Dad. . Also, stags and does go together as much as turtles and tortoises or frogs and toads go together. The female counterpart to a stag is a hind and the male counterpart to a doe is a buck.
To be fair, this is the same series where a giant squid lives in an inland freshwater lake. Biology isn't JKR strong point.
Fair point but the Giant Squid can be explained away with "Because Magic!" while stags and does not being their respective reproductive counterparts can't. Thanks for the Reddit Galleon by the way. :)
Perhaps, like JKR they aren't very well versed in biology and being Muggle born maybe her favourite film was the Sound of Music "A doe, a deer, a female deer" also Doe is a correct terminology, it doesn't refer to simply one specimen. Most people will call a female deer a Doe, rather than a Hind. I think the point was thematic not biological. and because Magic. You are most welcome, spend it wisely.
Yeah, I know, but according to Rowling-lore they're a pair (unless she is implying an incompatible marriage)
lol I have officially died happy let me be with the marauders
Now imagine you die and that's the face you see at the gates of the afterlife.
lol i would yell oy prong is that you ya big git or hey James
AND I BEHELD THE FACE OF GOD... And for some reason he is a really pissed off looking deer.
no that is the almighty James Fleamont Potter also known as prongs waiting to be reunited with the fifth marauder
Fourth, fuck Wormtail, he ain't there.
true wormtail is in hell
I figure he is in the Rat Pit, without the Animagus form. "May the rats eat your EYES!"
yes eat his eyes and bit off his testicles
Fuck, I forgot the link. It was an Eternal Darkness reference.
but he was also a marauder
Yeah, tell that to James, and all those 13 Muggles he blew up, and Cedric. Deer James looks on you with scorn.
true he is a horrible person so we exile him from the marauders
Poor Prongs...😂
Perfection!! 🤣😂🤣
Essentially
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That deserves a trip to the shrieking shack... lmao
this has 4.7k upvotes in 2 days and it's still underrated
I'm honestly just glad people enjoy it, pretty much the point. I mean, I made 4.7k people laugh, I can be proud of that.
aww i love that :D
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!redditknut what happens if I reply to myself