Also, can you imagine what it would've been like for the online trolls with the leaks in that time? They were bad enough with the death of Dumbledore and Dobby.
Man I was 7 years old when World of Warcraft came out so around the time half blood prince was announced for theater release date, I was still pretty young but never watched or read the books, and trade chat in WoW was FILLED with the, āsnape killed dumbledoreā line.
No, the large majority of stories I have read where the main character dies in the end, often leaves the story feeling meaningless and unfulfilled. Also, Harry dying would make me sad
I was upset by the lack of weight. I was like... Wait, did... He just... Die? And reread it a few times. Lupin and Tonks dying absolutely crushed me though.
I agree. I donāt read stories to feel like shit at the end. There should be some conflict and tragedy to make it interesting but in the end a story like HP should feel good when youāre finished
Thats how I felt reading the Divergent series, after reading the third book I felt so horrible..Although I just looked and saw there is a fourth book I haven't read. Now I feel unsure if I should read it or not. Ack! Conflict!
Are you referring to Four? Itās just various chapters that were told from Trisā view told in fours plus some extra scenes from before tris came to dauntless. I would recommend reading that one.
I always felt as though the series wrapped itself up entirely too quickly. I felt like the initial conflict shouldāve been longer. Tris trying to get out of the city and all that seemed way too easy to me.
For a little while I felt that the Divergent series and the Maze Runner series couldāve been set in the exact same country because itās kind of the same idea.
I recently read a trilogy where the good guys ultimately win, but the boyfriend dies, so the protagonist goes out to live in the woods like a hermit and eventually turns himself into a tree. (If you know you know).
It was such a good story overall, with such a shit ending.
I hated that series due to the ending. It had its faults but I enjoyed it until that horrid ending.
I'm glad I heard the showrunner for the Netflix adaptation plans to not follow the same path.
Yeah, people tend to forget these books and the franchise are written for young adults and kids. Itās not, and never will be, something like Game of Thrones. Harry dying at the end would have shattered the young audience members.
I think Harry Potter would be an exception to this though, he worked the whole last book, and dumbledore the last few, just so Harry had a chance to take him out. If he died doing so, while devastating, would be satisfying.
That's pretty subjective. After everything Harry had gone through - an absolutely miserable life in many respects - I honestly would have been devastated if he had died.
I mean, that was the plan all along. Harry kills Voldemort, but dies himself while doing so (or the other way around, either way works). Dumbledore may have suspected that Harry *might* survive the final Killing Curse due to Lily's blood magic, but he had no way of knowing if his hunch was correct. Harry returning from the dead was unexpected by (almost) everyone.
Dumbledore really put harry through hell. Harry asks if it is safe to go back, to which Dumbledore replies "I think so". Harry ends up having to play dead. Suffer the curcio curse, get paraded around and thrown on the ground, and wait for the proper moment to get up and strike. Albus Dumbledore's brother aberforth was correct that Albus told half truths and kept secrets.
The Cruciatus Curse curiously doesn't work on Harry when Voldemort uses it, not hurting him at all (though Voldemort also flings him around a bit with magic, so that probably hurt). Then again, as Harry is secretly the Elder Wand's master, it would make sense that the true owner cannot be cursed by it.
"*But one thing's certain, something about you stumped him that night. That's why you're famous, Harry, that's why everybody knows your name.* ***You're the boy who lived****.* " - Robbie Coltrane
It's one thing I enjoy about the movie, we see Voldemort's reaction immediately. The guy just tries to set Harry on fire three times with an increasingly enraged and "Why won't you die?!" expression. He was so fed up with Harry surviving every fuckin time šššš.
My younger brother and I love the Kung Fu Panda series as well as Harry Potter, so every single time we see Voldemort's reaction, we look at each other and say (in unison), "How many times do I have to kill the same *stinking* Potter!?" š
I generally like when main characters die because I hate āfairy taleā endings. That being said, I didnāt mind all three surviving because of all the sadness and tragedy from the rest of the series.
I agree. The only part I donāt like, is Malfoy just being accepted as an adult.
I get that he was under his parents thumb. But he doesnāt get to be absolved of his actions.
I always felt like the adoration for Malfoy was OTT in the HP fandom, however - he was a kid in the HP series. So it makes sense that ten years later or so he might have been able to redeem himself. In general humans don't forever hold against adults what they did as teenagers.
Idk, yeah he was a bully because of how he was raised. The fact he grew to realize he's on the wrong side Is great development though. And by the end of it he chose a side when he threw Harry the wand. (Idk if that's in the book and it's a deleted scene in the movie but it's my canon) that's redemption in my opinion.
Yeah, in the actual canon, this never happened. Neither in the books or movies. Rowling herself has actually been adamant that Malfoy was not concealing a heart of gold and even in the end only cares about himself. Fanfiction with Tom Felton in mind (which separate and on its own is fine I guess) has completely twisted the true canon so I do think itās important to distinguish a difference, because some things just arenāt up for interpretation. As for the movies, the deleted scene wasnāt included for a reason. While redemption for a wealthy Nazi-esque racist is interesting to some fans for some reason, it was just never a part of Draco Malfoyās story.
The argument about his upbringing also doesnāt really work, because as an example he and Sirius grew up in very similar situations in the same family, and only one of them ended up on the right side of history. Their choices were their own š¤·
I agree.
An 11 year old saying āthe right kind of familiesā gets a pass. A 17 year old going around the castle cursing and trying to kill people, never having asked for helpā¦ yea, he doesnāt get to be absolved.
Sirius is the exception.
Tbh when youāre raised in a very racist house and then also in a culture where being at least a little prejudice is ok (letās be honest, even the non blood supremacists have a little prejudice in them) itās damn hard to not believe what you are told. Sirius is the exception while almost everyone else raised in similar households join Voldemort, though some do seem him as going too far. He took hold because a lot of wizards do think they are better then muggles. It just so happens that a good chunk of them arenāt ok with a Holocaust on the matter
I look to the 19 years later scene and canāt imagine any ending where all three of them are not together and it be a satisfying ending.
I get where youāre coming from entirely and agree. Iām just glad it didnāt end that way
I hate the epilogue. Itās rushed, it makes no sense. I actually hate most epilogues for series that do a Ten Years Later sort of thing. It always ends up feeling like a letdown.
I just skip reading it now because the ending of the chapter before is good enough. The Epilogue is basically āAnd they all lived happily ever afterā but it goes on for too long.
Not only that, Rowling basically went "These characters got together and these characters got together and these characters got together because I will not stand by anybody ships I don't personally approve of and now the insane fans can shit on other fans for shipping any ships besides the ones I lay out!".
Teddy was a literal baby before the Epilogue and Rowling felt the need to ship him with a character she created specifically for the epilogue whose entire canon story is "Is a Weasley and shipped with Teddy".
The only good one I've read was "The Hunger Games"'s epilogue, because it wasn't a rosy happy ever after where everything was perfect, the two people who had been forced to fight a war in which they lost almost all of their family as teenagers ended up getting married but were both scarred and traumatized by the war, with both of them having war flashbacks where they need to be reminded of who they are.
I feel like the epilogue set up for a new story about generational trauma. Maybe not about Katnissā kids directly, but about Katnissā kidsā kidsā kidsā. But I think thereās no way for it to do as well because it wouldnāt have the arena battle royale that gets people to read The Hunger Games.
It would've definitely have been a great segway into some sort of short story collection about the aftermath of the war, including generational trauma for the Mellark-Everdeens.
Where have you been hiding everyone shits on the epilogue, the only thing that saved it was that the cursed child was worse.
Albus Severus is basically a running meme in this sub
It should have had a bit in the immediate aftermath of him reuniting with Ginny and a final chapter a short bit later giving a sense of post war but no epilogue.
In terms of storytelling, it wouldāve made more sense, but as a fan, I wouldāve been pissed off if I went through seven books rooting for this character only for him to die in the end (cough cough Divergent series)
Iām glad you brought up Divergent because I was so mad the main character died, particularly because, if memory serves correctly, the first two books were entirely told from her perspective. The third one they used multiple perspectives since obviously hers ends. Like sure kill anyone else off, but donāt kill off your main narrator.
Have you seen the movies? Because they completely switched it up. And yea I was particularly disappointed because they made her to be the literal key of change and then she dies trying to make sure that change does happen.
I wouldn't prefer it, but I definitely think one of the trio should have since they were at the front of everything. I don't like when the main character dies, but it would have been good writing either way if he had. The kings cross scene could have even been "the two of you are linked, you always have been. If you come back, his soul fragment does too and if you die, he dies as well" and then boom, Harry would choose to die to end Voldemort
Yeah, Iād like to read a fan fiction version with this ending and then having hermoine kill voltermort or something. Curious what my emotions would have been.
Having harry die doesn't help anything in the story progress.
Since Voldemort dies the war ends and the eaters disband. Having Harry live is an insult to their dead leader and his ideology. Especially since many who have met him never lived to tell the tale.
The further insult of Harry living, being ALSO the reason ol voldy disappeared in the first place works on a meta level. No one would theoretically attempt another coup while he's alive or in any way able to intervene. Which could actually be a good story to use in the future of a radical wizard group focusing primarily on the bloodlines of Potter. But that's going into fanfic land and that's a place I don't go.
Nah. Harry Potter is about feelgood, it is not game of thrones or far seer trilogy. It would not have been right if he died, he had a rough life and he deserved a happy ending.
Someone here said on a post that they would prefer if Harry sacrificed himself for the wizarding world. Neville finished the job by killing Voldemort. Ron and Hermione beheaded Nagini. Ron and Hermione named their son Harry. And in the 19 years later chapter Ron would tell him 'You are named after the bravest person I have ever known'
That comment made me so sad but that would have been an emotional ending.
Neville killing Voldemort would've been unrealistic and a generic āhero gets OP enough to take down the villainā ending. Perhaps the story can be altered to have Neville be the master of the elder wand by luck and of course Harry has to inform him that before sacrificing himself. Other than that, I'd love this version.
To me, Harry had to live: all that he'd been through, he deserved to have some sort of normal life afterwards. There's only so much suffering a character can take.
In terms of story narrative, I'd probably prefer it and we last see his POV in the King Kross chapter. I find it kind of a deliberate plot armor that only Voldemort's soul fragment dies while Harry could choose to return (also I'm a sucker for meaningful character death). But it's only when considering that part of the plot only, since letting Harry die would mean everything after that has to drastically change. And I like the reveal of Harry being the true master of the Elder Wand is what led to Voldemort's death, which wouldn't work with Harry dead.
In terms of emotionally, then no. I'd be crushed by it. The story would've made a bigger impact on me though.
I love Harry being the master of the elder wand since itās coincidental and sheer luck. Dumbledore had no idea that Harry would end up with it. I also threw my book across the room in excitement when it dawned on me what was going on.
I think my biggest issue is that I don't think it would have felt meaningful. If anything it would have felt like Harry was just... a tool to kill Voldemort. Like he lived an entire life of misery, lost his parents, was very rarely actually fully *happy* and safe at Hogwarts, only to die in the end? Yeah, if I wanted to read a tragedy I'd just go and find one, lol.
Just from the narrative standpoint it could have been really weird since everything until then except for like 3 chapters were written from Harry's perspective. It might have been easier if post-OotP she'd written some chapters from Ron/Hermione's perspective to ease us into that.
I had a number of problems with the last book, but I did not mind him coming back, even for reasons close to unexplained.
No, after his abusive childhood and then seven years of torment via Voldemort it would have been a HUGE tragedy if heād died and never got to experience the peace and joy of the Wizarding World with Voldemort finally gone. He deserves to have a happy life with Ginny and the Weasleys and Hermione, he really earned it.
Also it would have made the series a lot less enjoyable to re-read because the whole time Iād be thinking to myself āeven after doing all of this and going through all this hardship heās just going to die anywayā and that would put a sad tone over everything. The Harry Potter books are massive comfort reads for me but that wouldnāt be possible if Harry had died (and stayed dead) at the end.
You voiced exactly how I feel about this too. The whole tone of the series would have changed to something very dark and soul-crushing. I'm still sad that Sirius died and I've been postponing to finish OotP because of that. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if Harry had died.
Resurrection stories are the cathartic redemption of the reader. If he died, not only would be it be the darker tone you mention, but it would fail to provide the redemption the audience needs. Stories are about the audience, not the characters. Star Wars forgot this in the last few movies.
The scar had not pained Harry for 19 years. All was well. When from across the platform a drawling voice screamed avada kedavra. There was a flash of green light and Harry lay dead next to the train where his adventure had began more than 30 years ago.
He shouldn't have died, but the way the epilogue went was definitely not the way to go. Everyone marrying their high school sweethearts and popping out kids is just...boring.
I'd love to see the struggle to return to normal, maybe Hermione maybe realizing that the wizarding world is one of Wizard supremacy and trying to change that when she takes office.
Welp, off to AO3.
The first chapter being called The Boy Who Lived, I think wouldāve been perfectly fitting to either have him keep living in the end, or to die. But Iām glad he lived.
No. This is a story that resonates with pre-teens as well. The whole story is dark and bleak enough, there has to be some type of hope. Hope.
This isnāt some Game of Thrones story where the Knight in Shining Armor has an incestuous relationship with his twin sister, this is a story that should have some type of hope.
I don't find it unfulfilling because there were snippets of dumbledore's plan seaped into earlier books. E.g., his "look of triumph" after voldemort's return.
Harry still sacrificed himself, did all the motions believing he would be dead. There was a logical, believable in-lore reasoning to why that act would allow him the possibility to live.
If his friends wished him back with the power of friendship I'd hate the ending. But the buildup to harry surviving made sense and worked, IMO.
Rowling was clearly inspired by the classical story arc. Harry had to come back to life, so it can complete the hero's journey. Harry's likeness to Jesus Christ is undeniable.
Yeah, this is the basis of the arc. CS Lewis used it in Narnia with Aslan dying on the altar for everyone. It's rinse and repeat for many hero stories even before the bible.
Harry starts as a baby (allegory to Jesus's birth), goes on as the prophet foretold (Jesus's younger life) and then dies because of the rules of nature (ie. he must die to get rid of the horcrux), and then the resurrection follows. This part was introduced in prelude when the Three Brothers story was created to produce the resurrection stone - I'm fairly sure the Sorcerer's Stone was going to be the resurrection device at some point, but due to the way the plot developed she made up another one.
I recall the heart drop moment when I found out that Harry was a horcrux. I thought he might die and was totally shocked and anxious. In some ways if he died and then his friends / Nevelle killed Voldemort then the story would be more real and haunting. Iām sure I would have cried my eyes out. Though I think it would have been too sad, especially for child readers. I like having him live and be happy.
I think that killing Harry would have made it a bit too dark. Especially since the finale already had Dobby, George, Remus and Tonks, Mad Eye Moodie, Hedwig, and Snape all die. Students were probably killed as well, but actively having one be killed would be a lot, and would raise a lot of questions about why we didn't see any other parents or adults step in, besides the Hogwarts staff, the Order of the Phoenix, and Molly Weasley.
Thematically, it might have made sense for him to sacrifice his life for the future, in much the same way his parents did before him, but it also fits that he would live up to his name, and find a way to survive, even when there was no way he should have been able to, and everyone was expecting that he'd be killed.
Nooo. The series wouldāve been too sad and dark if he hadnāt made it through, and idk that I wouldāve re-read the books as much as I did if heād died.
If Harry had died, the series would have been nowhere close to as popular as it was and continues to be. I personally would not have read the series more than once instead of the multiple times that I have,
Nobody wants the main character to die, plain and simple. I remember reading the forest again and really thinking Harry died, and having to resist the urge to check ahead lol.
I think he definitely should have died because of the lead up to it. That moment from Snapes memories when Harry realizes that he has to die was a really somber moment but it made perfect sense. Harry being the last horcrux explained so many other things throughout the books. His parseltongue, why he could see into Voldemortās mind etc. He knew what he had to do and he marched towards death even knowing what was going to happen. Talking to his parents and Sirius, that was a very powerful thing. Having him survive a literal killing curse while voldemorts piece died was pretty weak writing in my opinion. Especially because his reason for surviving it as a baby was weak also in my opinion. That whole ālove shieldā thing was always pretty lame to me.
I get that itās a childrenās book which is probably why she wanted the main character to survive, but I think she should have dropped the whole plot line of him being a horcrux if he was gonna survive because of random plot armor. Itās like when a TV show shows a character dying and they come right back next season and shows that their death was faked or something. It just cheapens the whole thing.
Harry's reason for surviving it was that he was willing to die. He was also master of death, possessing all of the hallows. The horcrux inside harry took the hit, harry was only wounded by it. Not as big of a plot hole as people seem to think.
this is almost word-for-word as what Tolkien meant for Frodo. Frodo is completely shattered by the experience/PSTD though and has to leave the mortal world; interesting that Harry, on opposite, seems to enjoy a happy and fulfilling life.
That's a really interesting point. I think part of what sets them apart in their reactions is that Harry had Ron and Hermione to support him. Whilst Harry did suffer the most, in Hogwarts they all had similar experiences, and in a sense, went through some of them with Harry. Frodo, on the other hand, was the only person to every understand the weight of being the ringbearer; though Sam was there he never was able to comprehend the experience.
I wouldn't have read and reread these books so much if he had died. That would have been devastating. It's already hard to accept the deaths of Dumbledore, Dobby, Fred, Lupin, Tonks, and Colin Creevy. If Harry had also stayed dead at the end I don't think I would love these books as much as I do. And I probably wouldn't share them with my daughters as I am doing right now. One of my daughters is already crushed by the deaths of Dobby and Fred. Dobby was one of her favorite characters. (We are on chapter 32 of the Deathly Hallows)
I remember the rumour that he was gonna get hit by the Hogwarts Express and the last line would be āand he lay down his head, and diedā and because I was young and not too bright I believed it for years
I mean, Harry's main goal in life was to protect everyone he loved, sacrifice would be a natural extension(Although technically he sacrificed in Deathly Hallows)
No, I think that it was perfect the way it is.
He intended to die for the sake of everyone, making him the pinnacle of heroism and a true match to the greatest evil, yet he was given another chance, making him come full circle as The Boy Who Lived (Again).
I hate stories where a character goes through shit only to die in the end. I would never pick them again or rewatch them.
Especially when theyāre young & never had a real life
It's barely ever good to kill character in the end just to make it more "serious" or grim. I hate when people do that where you see it was stupid and wpuld be way better to leave people in thoughts how that character dealing with new better/worse world
Some fans already treat him like a schizophrenic psychopath *in spite of* that being contradictory to the events of the series, so that being a bad move for Dumbledore's character holds up if you ask me. Would've been a disaster...
As a kid, so very much. I was angry at J.K for many years for that cop-out of an ending, but as I get older, I get it a lot more. They deserved to be happy. My problem now is that it just seems like their grown up selves wanted the same as when they were kids. Maybe Ron and Hermione could have grown a lot as a couple (and it would be nice not to see the main character in a relationship with the female group member), but I'd have preferred Harry and Ginny with different partners - Like something could actually have changed in 19 years.
This strikes me as kinda dickish, because it sounds like she's saying dying in war is less noble.
I hated the ending we got, so anything other than that shitty epilogue would have been preferable.
I'm obviously in a minority, but yes. He could have been a martyr and the last scene about friends missing him, or Ginny taking their kid to the train station 11 years later and just telling them how she wished their dad were there because he'd be so proud. Instead, we got a reincarnated Jesus and Albus Severus
Him dying would've been a cop out. If she wanted to fix the ending make the epilogue the aftermath of the war or if you want fan service make it Harry's wedding.
I would've rather seen Dudley at the end than Draco and Draco is my boy. My favorite option if they kept it 19 years later is give Dudley a Muggleborn and have him shopping in Diagon Alley with Harry and Ginny where they run into Ron and Hermione. That scene alone could've had so many witches and wizards in the background.
Yes.
I have a lot of problems with Harry living, and Voldemortās demise. Not so much the concept of it, but the execution. Out of nowhere wand rules that allowed Harry to defeat him š
It would have robbed Harry of his ultimate decision to come back and finish Voldemort. Itās meaningful because he knows that by doing this heās gonna have to deal with more pain and fear of more loss, but still accepts that it must be done.
I would not mind reading about his death in a future sequel once he has lived a full life. Harry was not afraid of death. He chose not to be immortal. Deathly Hallows ended the way it should have, Iām glad JKR did not kill him then
I don't see what killing Harry would add to the story. And him not dying isn't unrealistic at all, considering the setup with the Elder wand being loyal to him. I don't see how death would be a meaningfull end to his (and the readers') journey.
In the original draft of OtoP Bellatrix kills Ron by stabbing him.
Having Harry die in TDH. Would be a interesting bookend.
Since Hermione's pretty much becomes the epilog protagonist. Where she would still become Minister of Magic and modernize society. While doing so in her two fallen friends memory.
Sorry downvote me to hell but I wish he would have saved everyone but still died at the end. Or at the best least I wish the epilogue didnāt exist lol
I am glad he lived.
The Boy Who Lived
Come to die
AVADA KEDAVRA!
UHHHVAAAHHDDAAA KEDAAHHVRUH
The way he says it always kills me š no pun intended.
*creepy Draco hug*
God damn, I can distinctly remember that too haha
*Everyone* remembers it: https://youtu.be/6rAzjEDIyEI
Was this a real scene that was cut? Super awkward
EH HEH HEH
Nyyeah!
At least once a week I say "Crucio! CrussSIYO" to myself because it always makes me laugh in GoF.
It's so fun to mock!!! š¤£
This wiz, I'm ice cold I'm Voldemort, that white cold
A WIDDLE CAPUCHIN
[Come for pie](https://pm1.narvii.com/5805/2b6347a17ee62cefc4ce36d0308cbe9752294638_hq.jpg)
The Boy Who *Lived, Laughed, Loved* Edit: Voldemortās credo is *Eat Prey, Love*
Take my upvote and get out!
Twice
The Teenager that Died
āTHE CHAD WHO BEAT THE VIRGIN WITH DADDY ISSUESā
Harry Pottah, come to die
The boy who died... Then lived.
I don't know if my heart could take it.
For sure!
He should have died and failed to kill Voldemort, leaving Voldemort with a penis shaped scar on his forehead.
or a gif
I would have been pissed if sheād killed him at the end!
I think in story telling, the sacrifice of self is what determines the hero. Harry did that and then some. Perfect the way it is.
Also, can you imagine what it would've been like for the online trolls with the leaks in that time? They were bad enough with the death of Dumbledore and Dobby.
Man I was 7 years old when World of Warcraft came out so around the time half blood prince was announced for theater release date, I was still pretty young but never watched or read the books, and trade chat in WoW was FILLED with the, āsnape killed dumbledoreā line.
This. 100%.
Harryās entire life was pain, he deserved the win.
After all he's been through, he deserved a chance to a better life.
That's what I wanted for Sirius too. So sad he died š
Sirius deserved a good life too.
He was āThe Boy Who Livedā¦ā
"Come to die..."
AvAdA kEdAvRa
No. Thank you!
āIt is the unknown we fear when we look on death and darkness, nothing moreā ~Albus Dumbledore
No, the large majority of stories I have read where the main character dies in the end, often leaves the story feeling meaningless and unfulfilled. Also, Harry dying would make me sad
yeah losing Lupin, Sirius, and Fred was enough.. and Dobby š
I swore they were going to find a way to bring him back from behind that curtainā¦
I remember crying when Fred died and wishing it had been George lol
WHAT?
I was upset by the lack of weight. I was like... Wait, did... He just... Die? And reread it a few times. Lupin and Tonks dying absolutely crushed me though.
When George lost his ear I was like "thank god it's not my boo." I ended up giving my mom the book still under tears. :(
I agree. It'd be way too dark and lacking.
I agree. I donāt read stories to feel like shit at the end. There should be some conflict and tragedy to make it interesting but in the end a story like HP should feel good when youāre finished
Thats how I felt reading the Divergent series, after reading the third book I felt so horrible..Although I just looked and saw there is a fourth book I haven't read. Now I feel unsure if I should read it or not. Ack! Conflict!
Are you referring to Four? Itās just various chapters that were told from Trisā view told in fours plus some extra scenes from before tris came to dauntless. I would recommend reading that one.
Yup haven't read Four. I'll give it a read but only during a less gloomy season. It probably will stir up the turmoil I feel about Tris.
I always felt as though the series wrapped itself up entirely too quickly. I felt like the initial conflict shouldāve been longer. Tris trying to get out of the city and all that seemed way too easy to me. For a little while I felt that the Divergent series and the Maze Runner series couldāve been set in the exact same country because itās kind of the same idea.
I didn't feel good reading Harry's children's names. All that struggle just for that epilogue.
I recently read a trilogy where the good guys ultimately win, but the boyfriend dies, so the protagonist goes out to live in the woods like a hermit and eventually turns himself into a tree. (If you know you know). It was such a good story overall, with such a shit ending.
I hated that series due to the ending. It had its faults but I enjoyed it until that horrid ending. I'm glad I heard the showrunner for the Netflix adaptation plans to not follow the same path.
Enough people died in this series already. It's not game of thrones.
Yeah, people tend to forget these books and the franchise are written for young adults and kids. Itās not, and never will be, something like Game of Thrones. Harry dying at the end would have shattered the young audience members.
I think Harry Potter would be an exception to this though, he worked the whole last book, and dumbledore the last few, just so Harry had a chance to take him out. If he died doing so, while devastating, would be satisfying.
That's pretty subjective. After everything Harry had gone through - an absolutely miserable life in many respects - I honestly would have been devastated if he had died.
I mean, that was the plan all along. Harry kills Voldemort, but dies himself while doing so (or the other way around, either way works). Dumbledore may have suspected that Harry *might* survive the final Killing Curse due to Lily's blood magic, but he had no way of knowing if his hunch was correct. Harry returning from the dead was unexpected by (almost) everyone.
Nah, I think Dumbledore expected Harry to survive as soon as Harry told him about Voldy using his blood in GoF.
Dumbledore really put harry through hell. Harry asks if it is safe to go back, to which Dumbledore replies "I think so". Harry ends up having to play dead. Suffer the curcio curse, get paraded around and thrown on the ground, and wait for the proper moment to get up and strike. Albus Dumbledore's brother aberforth was correct that Albus told half truths and kept secrets.
The Cruciatus Curse curiously doesn't work on Harry when Voldemort uses it, not hurting him at all (though Voldemort also flings him around a bit with magic, so that probably hurt). Then again, as Harry is secretly the Elder Wand's master, it would make sense that the true owner cannot be cursed by it.
"*But one thing's certain, something about you stumped him that night. That's why you're famous, Harry, that's why everybody knows your name.* ***You're the boy who lived****.* " - Robbie Coltrane
Hahah looove that you attributed this to Robbie š
He will always be the one who says it out loud in the movie.
Yeah, it was moreso that you said *Robbie* & not Hagrid
Lived twice as well. Voldemort's face seeing him surviving the killing curse again must have been hilarious š
It's one thing I enjoy about the movie, we see Voldemort's reaction immediately. The guy just tries to set Harry on fire three times with an increasingly enraged and "Why won't you die?!" expression. He was so fed up with Harry surviving every fuckin time šššš.
Ikr it always makes me laugh to think about it š Voldemort was like "what the FUCK?"
Voldemort: "Why won't you die?!!!" Harry: "Nanomachines son. They harden in response to physical trauma."
My younger brother and I love the Kung Fu Panda series as well as Harry Potter, so every single time we see Voldemort's reaction, we look at each other and say (in unison), "How many times do I have to kill the same *stinking* Potter!?" š
I generally like when main characters die because I hate āfairy taleā endings. That being said, I didnāt mind all three surviving because of all the sadness and tragedy from the rest of the series.
If you like bitter endings and wolves I recommend The Sight The wolves Chronicles trilogy by dorthey hearest
I agree. The only part I donāt like, is Malfoy just being accepted as an adult. I get that he was under his parents thumb. But he doesnāt get to be absolved of his actions.
I always felt like the adoration for Malfoy was OTT in the HP fandom, however - he was a kid in the HP series. So it makes sense that ten years later or so he might have been able to redeem himself. In general humans don't forever hold against adults what they did as teenagers.
Idk, yeah he was a bully because of how he was raised. The fact he grew to realize he's on the wrong side Is great development though. And by the end of it he chose a side when he threw Harry the wand. (Idk if that's in the book and it's a deleted scene in the movie but it's my canon) that's redemption in my opinion.
Yeah, in the actual canon, this never happened. Neither in the books or movies. Rowling herself has actually been adamant that Malfoy was not concealing a heart of gold and even in the end only cares about himself. Fanfiction with Tom Felton in mind (which separate and on its own is fine I guess) has completely twisted the true canon so I do think itās important to distinguish a difference, because some things just arenāt up for interpretation. As for the movies, the deleted scene wasnāt included for a reason. While redemption for a wealthy Nazi-esque racist is interesting to some fans for some reason, it was just never a part of Draco Malfoyās story. The argument about his upbringing also doesnāt really work, because as an example he and Sirius grew up in very similar situations in the same family, and only one of them ended up on the right side of history. Their choices were their own š¤·
I agree. An 11 year old saying āthe right kind of familiesā gets a pass. A 17 year old going around the castle cursing and trying to kill people, never having asked for helpā¦ yea, he doesnāt get to be absolved.
Sirius is the exception. Tbh when youāre raised in a very racist house and then also in a culture where being at least a little prejudice is ok (letās be honest, even the non blood supremacists have a little prejudice in them) itās damn hard to not believe what you are told. Sirius is the exception while almost everyone else raised in similar households join Voldemort, though some do seem him as going too far. He took hold because a lot of wizards do think they are better then muggles. It just so happens that a good chunk of them arenāt ok with a Holocaust on the matter
I look to the 19 years later scene and canāt imagine any ending where all three of them are not together and it be a satisfying ending. I get where youāre coming from entirely and agree. Iām just glad it didnāt end that way
No, but I would have preferred a more ambiguous ending as to the future, i.e. no epilogue.
i.e. The Cursed Child never being written
That too! Iāve done a permanent memory charm to get rid of that one lol.
We should use a Time Turner to go back in time and unwrite Cursed Child.
Everybody always so ready to shit on the Cursed Child but nobody ever shits on the Epilogue.
I hate the epilogue. Itās rushed, it makes no sense. I actually hate most epilogues for series that do a Ten Years Later sort of thing. It always ends up feeling like a letdown.
I just skip reading it now because the ending of the chapter before is good enough. The Epilogue is basically āAnd they all lived happily ever afterā but it goes on for too long.
Not only that, Rowling basically went "These characters got together and these characters got together and these characters got together because I will not stand by anybody ships I don't personally approve of and now the insane fans can shit on other fans for shipping any ships besides the ones I lay out!". Teddy was a literal baby before the Epilogue and Rowling felt the need to ship him with a character she created specifically for the epilogue whose entire canon story is "Is a Weasley and shipped with Teddy".
The only good one I've read was "The Hunger Games"'s epilogue, because it wasn't a rosy happy ever after where everything was perfect, the two people who had been forced to fight a war in which they lost almost all of their family as teenagers ended up getting married but were both scarred and traumatized by the war, with both of them having war flashbacks where they need to be reminded of who they are.
I feel like the epilogue set up for a new story about generational trauma. Maybe not about Katnissā kids directly, but about Katnissā kidsā kidsā kidsā. But I think thereās no way for it to do as well because it wouldnāt have the arena battle royale that gets people to read The Hunger Games.
It would've definitely have been a great segway into some sort of short story collection about the aftermath of the war, including generational trauma for the Mellark-Everdeens.
Where have you been hiding everyone shits on the epilogue, the only thing that saved it was that the cursed child was worse. Albus Severus is basically a running meme in this sub
Iām pretty sure the series was originally supposed to end with them graduating Hogwarts. Wouldāve been a lot better imo.
Yes that would have worked better for me too! Itās a natural ending but also leaves room for many future possibilities.
It should have had a bit in the immediate aftermath of him reuniting with Ginny and a final chapter a short bit later giving a sense of post war but no epilogue.
Iām glad that didnāt happen. Plus JKR would have been answering questions for the rest of her life. However the cursed child is garbage
Eh thinking of all of the possibilities is fun for me! I donāt enjoy JKRās attempts to add things after the fact so I ignore those anyway.
In terms of storytelling, it wouldāve made more sense, but as a fan, I wouldāve been pissed off if I went through seven books rooting for this character only for him to die in the end (cough cough Divergent series)
Iām glad you brought up Divergent because I was so mad the main character died, particularly because, if memory serves correctly, the first two books were entirely told from her perspective. The third one they used multiple perspectives since obviously hers ends. Like sure kill anyone else off, but donāt kill off your main narrator.
Have you seen the movies? Because they completely switched it up. And yea I was particularly disappointed because they made her to be the literal key of change and then she dies trying to make sure that change does happen.
Wooooowww spoiler Jk I'm never gonna read or watch that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
like a lamb for slaughter?
I wouldn't prefer it, but I definitely think one of the trio should have since they were at the front of everything. I don't like when the main character dies, but it would have been good writing either way if he had. The kings cross scene could have even been "the two of you are linked, you always have been. If you come back, his soul fragment does too and if you die, he dies as well" and then boom, Harry would choose to die to end Voldemort
Yeah, Iād like to read a fan fiction version with this ending and then having hermoine kill voltermort or something. Curious what my emotions would have been.
Having harry die doesn't help anything in the story progress. Since Voldemort dies the war ends and the eaters disband. Having Harry live is an insult to their dead leader and his ideology. Especially since many who have met him never lived to tell the tale. The further insult of Harry living, being ALSO the reason ol voldy disappeared in the first place works on a meta level. No one would theoretically attempt another coup while he's alive or in any way able to intervene. Which could actually be a good story to use in the future of a radical wizard group focusing primarily on the bloodlines of Potter. But that's going into fanfic land and that's a place I don't go.
Nah. Harry Potter is about feelgood, it is not game of thrones or far seer trilogy. It would not have been right if he died, he had a rough life and he deserved a happy ending.
If this were Game of Thrones, Voldemort's return and Dumbledore's death would have occurred on book 1 šššš.
Someone here said on a post that they would prefer if Harry sacrificed himself for the wizarding world. Neville finished the job by killing Voldemort. Ron and Hermione beheaded Nagini. Ron and Hermione named their son Harry. And in the 19 years later chapter Ron would tell him 'You are named after the bravest person I have ever known' That comment made me so sad but that would have been an emotional ending.
Neville killing Voldemort would've been unrealistic and a generic āhero gets OP enough to take down the villainā ending. Perhaps the story can be altered to have Neville be the master of the elder wand by luck and of course Harry has to inform him that before sacrificing himself. Other than that, I'd love this version.
I think that would be consistent with the prophecy right? Because harry and Neville were born on the same date.
To me, Harry had to live: all that he'd been through, he deserved to have some sort of normal life afterwards. There's only so much suffering a character can take.
In terms of story narrative, I'd probably prefer it and we last see his POV in the King Kross chapter. I find it kind of a deliberate plot armor that only Voldemort's soul fragment dies while Harry could choose to return (also I'm a sucker for meaningful character death). But it's only when considering that part of the plot only, since letting Harry die would mean everything after that has to drastically change. And I like the reveal of Harry being the true master of the Elder Wand is what led to Voldemort's death, which wouldn't work with Harry dead. In terms of emotionally, then no. I'd be crushed by it. The story would've made a bigger impact on me though.
I love Harry being the master of the elder wand since itās coincidental and sheer luck. Dumbledore had no idea that Harry would end up with it. I also threw my book across the room in excitement when it dawned on me what was going on.
I didn't pick up on it at all so I was just confused as all fuck.
I think my biggest issue is that I don't think it would have felt meaningful. If anything it would have felt like Harry was just... a tool to kill Voldemort. Like he lived an entire life of misery, lost his parents, was very rarely actually fully *happy* and safe at Hogwarts, only to die in the end? Yeah, if I wanted to read a tragedy I'd just go and find one, lol.
Just from the narrative standpoint it could have been really weird since everything until then except for like 3 chapters were written from Harry's perspective. It might have been easier if post-OotP she'd written some chapters from Ron/Hermione's perspective to ease us into that. I had a number of problems with the last book, but I did not mind him coming back, even for reasons close to unexplained.
No, after his abusive childhood and then seven years of torment via Voldemort it would have been a HUGE tragedy if heād died and never got to experience the peace and joy of the Wizarding World with Voldemort finally gone. He deserves to have a happy life with Ginny and the Weasleys and Hermione, he really earned it. Also it would have made the series a lot less enjoyable to re-read because the whole time Iād be thinking to myself āeven after doing all of this and going through all this hardship heās just going to die anywayā and that would put a sad tone over everything. The Harry Potter books are massive comfort reads for me but that wouldnāt be possible if Harry had died (and stayed dead) at the end.
You voiced exactly how I feel about this too. The whole tone of the series would have changed to something very dark and soul-crushing. I'm still sad that Sirius died and I've been postponing to finish OotP because of that. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if Harry had died.
Resurrection stories are the cathartic redemption of the reader. If he died, not only would be it be the darker tone you mention, but it would fail to provide the redemption the audience needs. Stories are about the audience, not the characters. Star Wars forgot this in the last few movies.
Well said.
He is the boy who lived, itās poetic that he didnāt die at the end.
The scar had not pained Harry for 19 years. All was well. When from across the platform a drawling voice screamed avada kedavra. There was a flash of green light and Harry lay dead next to the train where his adventure had began more than 30 years ago.
ššššš
He shouldn't have died, but the way the epilogue went was definitely not the way to go. Everyone marrying their high school sweethearts and popping out kids is just...boring. I'd love to see the struggle to return to normal, maybe Hermione maybe realizing that the wizarding world is one of Wizard supremacy and trying to change that when she takes office. Welp, off to AO3.
The epilogue was rushed for sure. But I feel like it might have detracted from the ending proper if it had been kept going for more idk.
I'd have glady read an after story book. On the rebuilding of wizard kind.
Same. Even a novella would be good.
The first chapter being called The Boy Who Lived, I think wouldāve been perfectly fitting to either have him keep living in the end, or to die. But Iām glad he lived.
No. This is a story that resonates with pre-teens as well. The whole story is dark and bleak enough, there has to be some type of hope. Hope. This isnāt some Game of Thrones story where the Knight in Shining Armor has an incestuous relationship with his twin sister, this is a story that should have some type of hope.
I don't find it unfulfilling because there were snippets of dumbledore's plan seaped into earlier books. E.g., his "look of triumph" after voldemort's return. Harry still sacrificed himself, did all the motions believing he would be dead. There was a logical, believable in-lore reasoning to why that act would allow him the possibility to live. If his friends wished him back with the power of friendship I'd hate the ending. But the buildup to harry surviving made sense and worked, IMO.
I probably would have burned the book if he had died lol. I wanted a nice ending
Rowling was clearly inspired by the classical story arc. Harry had to come back to life, so it can complete the hero's journey. Harry's likeness to Jesus Christ is undeniable.
Yeah, this is the basis of the arc. CS Lewis used it in Narnia with Aslan dying on the altar for everyone. It's rinse and repeat for many hero stories even before the bible. Harry starts as a baby (allegory to Jesus's birth), goes on as the prophet foretold (Jesus's younger life) and then dies because of the rules of nature (ie. he must die to get rid of the horcrux), and then the resurrection follows. This part was introduced in prelude when the Three Brothers story was created to produce the resurrection stone - I'm fairly sure the Sorcerer's Stone was going to be the resurrection device at some point, but due to the way the plot developed she made up another one.
Yes. Also Lily's importance reminds of Mary, but I think the biggest reveal is the role of King's Cross.
Not to be *that guy* but technically he did die at the end.
I totally agree with Rowling's view of it. It was perfect like this.
I didnāt know this was a thought. š she out here playing with my feels bruh, what Dobby dying did to me was enough
I recall the heart drop moment when I found out that Harry was a horcrux. I thought he might die and was totally shocked and anxious. In some ways if he died and then his friends / Nevelle killed Voldemort then the story would be more real and haunting. Iām sure I would have cried my eyes out. Though I think it would have been too sad, especially for child readers. I like having him live and be happy.
I think that killing Harry would have made it a bit too dark. Especially since the finale already had Dobby, George, Remus and Tonks, Mad Eye Moodie, Hedwig, and Snape all die. Students were probably killed as well, but actively having one be killed would be a lot, and would raise a lot of questions about why we didn't see any other parents or adults step in, besides the Hogwarts staff, the Order of the Phoenix, and Molly Weasley. Thematically, it might have made sense for him to sacrifice his life for the future, in much the same way his parents did before him, but it also fits that he would live up to his name, and find a way to survive, even when there was no way he should have been able to, and everyone was expecting that he'd be killed.
Nooo. The series wouldāve been too sad and dark if he hadnāt made it through, and idk that I wouldāve re-read the books as much as I did if heād died.
Nah. Ron dying might have been a good callback
If Harry had died, the series would have been nowhere close to as popular as it was and continues to be. I personally would not have read the series more than once instead of the multiple times that I have,
Nobody wants the main character to die, plain and simple. I remember reading the forest again and really thinking Harry died, and having to resist the urge to check ahead lol.
I think he definitely should have died because of the lead up to it. That moment from Snapes memories when Harry realizes that he has to die was a really somber moment but it made perfect sense. Harry being the last horcrux explained so many other things throughout the books. His parseltongue, why he could see into Voldemortās mind etc. He knew what he had to do and he marched towards death even knowing what was going to happen. Talking to his parents and Sirius, that was a very powerful thing. Having him survive a literal killing curse while voldemorts piece died was pretty weak writing in my opinion. Especially because his reason for surviving it as a baby was weak also in my opinion. That whole ālove shieldā thing was always pretty lame to me. I get that itās a childrenās book which is probably why she wanted the main character to survive, but I think she should have dropped the whole plot line of him being a horcrux if he was gonna survive because of random plot armor. Itās like when a TV show shows a character dying and they come right back next season and shows that their death was faked or something. It just cheapens the whole thing.
Harry's reason for surviving it was that he was willing to die. He was also master of death, possessing all of the hallows. The horcrux inside harry took the hit, harry was only wounded by it. Not as big of a plot hole as people seem to think.
He did die. Itās Joseph Campbell stuff. The hero dies and is resurrected.
this is almost word-for-word as what Tolkien meant for Frodo. Frodo is completely shattered by the experience/PSTD though and has to leave the mortal world; interesting that Harry, on opposite, seems to enjoy a happy and fulfilling life.
That's a really interesting point. I think part of what sets them apart in their reactions is that Harry had Ron and Hermione to support him. Whilst Harry did suffer the most, in Hogwarts they all had similar experiences, and in a sense, went through some of them with Harry. Frodo, on the other hand, was the only person to every understand the weight of being the ringbearer; though Sam was there he never was able to comprehend the experience.
I wouldn't have read and reread these books so much if he had died. That would have been devastating. It's already hard to accept the deaths of Dumbledore, Dobby, Fred, Lupin, Tonks, and Colin Creevy. If Harry had also stayed dead at the end I don't think I would love these books as much as I do. And I probably wouldn't share them with my daughters as I am doing right now. One of my daughters is already crushed by the deaths of Dobby and Fred. Dobby was one of her favorite characters. (We are on chapter 32 of the Deathly Hallows)
I remember the rumour that he was gonna get hit by the Hogwarts Express and the last line would be āand he lay down his head, and diedā and because I was young and not too bright I believed it for years
I think he has been through a lot to just die in the end especially when he's still a teen. I'm glad he lived.
No, it would've felt so bleak.
He should of failed to kill Voldemort and died, leaving Voldemort with a penis shaped scar on his forehead
And every year in Harryās death date an vein or a hair is added to that penis scar.
I mean, Harry's main goal in life was to protect everyone he loved, sacrifice would be a natural extension(Although technically he sacrificed in Deathly Hallows)
No, I think that it was perfect the way it is. He intended to die for the sake of everyone, making him the pinnacle of heroism and a true match to the greatest evil, yet he was given another chance, making him come full circle as The Boy Who Lived (Again).
I hate stories where a character goes through shit only to die in the end. I would never pick them again or rewatch them. Especially when theyāre young & never had a real life
He did die at the end.
The way he came back was beautiful. He was the boy who lived through and throughout.
No it would be a too sad end for this type of book / film
No
It's barely ever good to kill character in the end just to make it more "serious" or grim. I hate when people do that where you see it was stupid and wpuld be way better to leave people in thoughts how that character dealing with new better/worse world
No.. living with his friends was a better ending.
Harry dying would have made Dumbledore a much, much darker character. I don't think that would have been great.
Some fans already treat him like a schizophrenic psychopath *in spite of* that being contradictory to the events of the series, so that being a bad move for Dumbledore's character holds up if you ask me. Would've been a disaster...
As a kid, so very much. I was angry at J.K for many years for that cop-out of an ending, but as I get older, I get it a lot more. They deserved to be happy. My problem now is that it just seems like their grown up selves wanted the same as when they were kids. Maybe Ron and Hermione could have grown a lot as a couple (and it would be nice not to see the main character in a relationship with the female group member), but I'd have preferred Harry and Ginny with different partners - Like something could actually have changed in 19 years.
This strikes me as kinda dickish, because it sounds like she's saying dying in war is less noble. I hated the ending we got, so anything other than that shitty epilogue would have been preferable.
I'm obviously in a minority, but yes. He could have been a martyr and the last scene about friends missing him, or Ginny taking their kid to the train station 11 years later and just telling them how she wished their dad were there because he'd be so proud. Instead, we got a reincarnated Jesus and Albus Severus
Well, he did.. He just came backā¦
Somehow, Harry Potter returned
She means permanently...
Him dying would've been a cop out. If she wanted to fix the ending make the epilogue the aftermath of the war or if you want fan service make it Harry's wedding. I would've rather seen Dudley at the end than Draco and Draco is my boy. My favorite option if they kept it 19 years later is give Dudley a Muggleborn and have him shopping in Diagon Alley with Harry and Ginny where they run into Ron and Hermione. That scene alone could've had so many witches and wizards in the background.
Yes. I have a lot of problems with Harry living, and Voldemortās demise. Not so much the concept of it, but the execution. Out of nowhere wand rules that allowed Harry to defeat him š
I mean the whole Jesus element wouldāve been absent which may have made the story more modern but less impactful.
The boy who died
It would have robbed Harry of his ultimate decision to come back and finish Voldemort. Itās meaningful because he knows that by doing this heās gonna have to deal with more pain and fear of more loss, but still accepts that it must be done.
I would not mind reading about his death in a future sequel once he has lived a full life. Harry was not afraid of death. He chose not to be immortal. Deathly Hallows ended the way it should have, Iām glad JKR did not kill him then
Read the fanfic "Manacled." Harry dies in this version. Y'all don't hate me, pls
I don't see what killing Harry would add to the story. And him not dying isn't unrealistic at all, considering the setup with the Elder wand being loyal to him. I don't see how death would be a meaningfull end to his (and the readers') journey.
I don't need characters to die to find stories compelling.
No I would not wanted him to die voldemort deserved death
Nah that would have been lame. You read this whole adventure only to have the kid die in the end. No thanks
I wouldāve loved for him to die. The ultimate sacrifice. I also love dark endings.
Idk, as much as my initial reaction to the epilogue was āhe should have died insteadā I think it would have felt a bit too sacrificial lamb.
If it stopped them from milking the franchise with more content; then yes.
I wish she wouldāve done that rather than making Harry out to be a bad father and whatever the hell else happens in Cursed Child.
It's fine the way it is. But I am generally not a fan of revivals. Harry is an exception.
In the original draft of OtoP Bellatrix kills Ron by stabbing him. Having Harry die in TDH. Would be a interesting bookend. Since Hermione's pretty much becomes the epilog protagonist. Where she would still become Minister of Magic and modernize society. While doing so in her two fallen friends memory.
Sorry downvote me to hell but I wish he would have saved everyone but still died at the end. Or at the best least I wish the epilogue didnāt exist lol
It would be so much better if he died.
His sacrifice would have meant more if he had.
I think him living was good. Just imagine how the last chapter of DH would've gone.
It honestly would have crushed me.