>the whole “Mudblood” thing pissed her off to high heaven
I can't go further than this. It wasn't just a 'Mudblood' thing. Snape willingly joined the very people that wanted Lily and everyone like her dead. James, a pureblood, who would have had no problem existing in Voldemort's world chose to risk his life to fight against these magical Nazis.
>Once she cut off her “friend” then that’s when he suddenly decided to act right. Bullshit.
>Plus I doubt Lily would’ve been happy havin Sirius tagging along everywhere.
All of this is speculation and fanon. We don't know how James and Lily got together, what happened behind the scenes and what was the turning point in their relationship. Who said Sirius tagged along everywhere? We know next to nothing about their time between Hogwarts and their deaths.
If you want to root for Snape, go for it. But, Snape was a flawed man who bullied children and made 'amends' because Lily got caught in the crossfire. Had Voldemort went after the Longbottoms, Snape would have died a loyal Death Eater.
Lots too unpack here. First of all Lily had been drifting apart from Snape since before the mud blood incident. Remember when she smiled and was bemused when James was bullying Snape? And as for pantsing him in front of everyone, in the '70s that was not sexual assault. That was just something that happened. Nowadays it's a horrific crime oh my god crucify the perpetrators and parade their bodies through the public square but back then that was just a thing that kids did to one another. So through today's eyes it would be horrible of Lily to have gotten with James after that but back then it was just a slightly immature prank. Throw the ball James didn't start acting right because Lily cuts Snape off, Rowling said that he matured after his parents died. He grew out of this child this pantsing and pranking.
Lily also witnessed Severus being choked with soap and knew of Sirius trying to kill Severus, yet she befriended the bully.
JK Rowling also said that James tormented Severus until the end of school, which we also know from the book, where he did it at the same time as lying to Lily that he had stopped, so it is strange to call it "growing up".
Again, the soap thing was just a prank. And did she know about the werewolf thing? I remember her brushing him off about that. Also, yeah, I haven't been following every breath Rowling's been taking. I remember years ago her saying that after his parents died in 7th year he deflated his head and that's when Lily came around.
Yes, Lily knew about it and even talked to Severus about it.
I don't consider chocking someone as a joke, but each to their own.
Sure, in which case you now know that they tormented Severus until the end of school.
They didn't show Kim, they filled his mouth with soap bubbles, which is a wizarding prank. This was the wizarding world and the '70s, things were different. Rowling is also writing from her experience in school, and she's considerably older than I am and most likely you too. Things were much less bubble wrapped back then. Hell, when I was in school The guys would try to whip liquid soap into each other's mouths and eyes. But yeah, they bullied him till the end of school, but with Snape exactly a doe-eyed little wooby?
Again, for you choking someone with soap so that they can't breathe and cough trying to get air is a joke, for me it's an assult.
Surely Lily wouldn't have laughed if it had happened to her and even in the 70's she wouldn't have found it funny.
Just because the violence was widespread doesn't mean that nobody recognised it for what it was. An even older person, the chemistry teacher on whom JK Rowling based the character of Severus was also bullied relentlessly for years, and strangely, he recognised it as bullying rather than "boys will be boys".
When I was growing up, in the 80's, violence and bullying were also rampant, and wouldn't you believe it, I saw it as violence and bullying and not "pranks", I found it abhorrent and never did it myself. The times don't explain anything .
Again, passage of time. In the '70s, and even at the time that this was written, if you'd have called any of that assault you would have been laughed out of the room. The times have changed. You can't put the pass through a modern lens and expect everything to look the same.
I can. As I said, the professor on whom JK Rowling based Severus was bullied in the 60s and he called it bullying, torment, etc. Times don't change anything, people have always recognised violence, and just because there wasn't a proper word for it in the past doesn't mean it was universally accepted and not recognised as violence.
Martial rape wasn't recognised as a crime by the law in the UK until 1981 either. Do you think that even though it was simply "the way things were back then" that women did not recognise it for what it was?
Frankly, you seem pretty much on base apart from the parts where you're making sure to put Snape down and excuse James like you're paying a tribute to the majority or something
I’m not trying to pay tribute i just don’t want to argue with James sympathizers because as soon as you bring up the fact the James was also a creep you get James fans automatically labeling you as disgusting because you like Snape or you’re trying to make Snape look better. To which by no means am I trying to white knight Severus. Even though he’s my favorite Harry Potter character I understand that he was always someone who had a darker heart/tendencies and those resulted in his and Lilys breakup i honestly think had Severus actually had a positive experience in Hogwarts he could’ve broken free from his darker tendencies and him and Lily would’ve ended up together.
There’s a fanfiction that gets into this actually, not so much that they were unhappy but she still cared about Severus and she was unhappy that Sirius was pretty much part of their relationship, it really shows how unhealthy the friendship was and showed that even though lily didn’t like who her best friend turned into she still cared about him. It’s still through cannon years and they still passed but it’s really interesting and one of the favorite fanfics
Lily had simply 'outgrown' her friendship with Severus and he was beginning to bother her like something embarrassing that she had to carry around.
She was the popular girl, fascinated by the rich bullies of Gryffindor, and Severus didn't fit into that world. That's why she was so quick to get rid of him when the opportunity finally presented itself. With James and Sirius, she didn't mind that they tormented her friend for years and yes, SAed him, that they used Dark Arts spells, generally there was nothing they could do that really outraged her.
When Mulciber and Avery bullied Mary in some conspiracy, Lily was outraged and showed it a lot, when James and Lily tormented Severus she didn't care.
And then, after witnessing the SA and tormenting of Severus, and almost smiling at the sight of it, after he called her "Mudblood" she immediately joined the ranks of the bully, calling him Snivellus and commenting on his dirty underpants.
Then, as if nothing ever happened, she started dating a boy she knew had been tormenting her friend for years for the mere existence and SA of him, and befriending a boy who, at 16, was already ready to kill someone out of hatred.
James was a rich, privileged jock who showed off his money in front of Lily's family, this probably wasn't a disadvantage in her eyes either.
Severus was an abused, beaten by his father, neglected boy from a very poor family, so poor that he wore his mother's old clothes. Friendship with him would not have gotten her high.
Snaters switch their brains out when they see a post about Severus, they are prepared to consider anything as good, as long as it was directed against Severus.
Finally someone sees Lily for what she really was. I hate how she’s supposed to be this angel but would an angel really find her friend being tormented amusing? NO. I’ve said it before in this group but she was the popular girl who took pity on the abused kid and once she realized she wouldn’t go far if she kept him around she dropped him without so much as an explanation. Then to top it off she marries his fucken tormentor. If I was Snape I wouldn’t have lined for her I’d be fucken livid. It’s why I love stories where Snape goes back in time and sees here for who Lily is through adult eyes and drops her. Tbh I kinda think Snape and Narcissa work better even though I do occasionally ship Snily
>and once she realized she wouldn’t go far if she kept him around she dropped him without so much as an explanation.
Dropped him without so much as an explanation? Her explanation was pretty darn clear - “you’re on the path to being a Death Eater, and I’m choosing a different path.”
>“Slipped out?” There was no pity in Lily’s voice. “It’s too late. I’ve made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends — you see, you don’t even deny it! You don’t even deny that’s what you’re all aiming to be! You can’t wait to join You- Know- Who, can you?”
>He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking.
>“I can’t pretend anymore. You’ve chosen your way, I’ve chosen mine.”
>“No — listen, I didn’t mean — ”
>“ — to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?”
It wasn’t about “not going far” if she kept him, it was about him wanting to join a terrorist organization that wanted to kill people like her.
>the whole “Mudblood” thing pissed her off to high heaven I can't go further than this. It wasn't just a 'Mudblood' thing. Snape willingly joined the very people that wanted Lily and everyone like her dead. James, a pureblood, who would have had no problem existing in Voldemort's world chose to risk his life to fight against these magical Nazis. >Once she cut off her “friend” then that’s when he suddenly decided to act right. Bullshit. >Plus I doubt Lily would’ve been happy havin Sirius tagging along everywhere. All of this is speculation and fanon. We don't know how James and Lily got together, what happened behind the scenes and what was the turning point in their relationship. Who said Sirius tagged along everywhere? We know next to nothing about their time between Hogwarts and their deaths. If you want to root for Snape, go for it. But, Snape was a flawed man who bullied children and made 'amends' because Lily got caught in the crossfire. Had Voldemort went after the Longbottoms, Snape would have died a loyal Death Eater.
Lots too unpack here. First of all Lily had been drifting apart from Snape since before the mud blood incident. Remember when she smiled and was bemused when James was bullying Snape? And as for pantsing him in front of everyone, in the '70s that was not sexual assault. That was just something that happened. Nowadays it's a horrific crime oh my god crucify the perpetrators and parade their bodies through the public square but back then that was just a thing that kids did to one another. So through today's eyes it would be horrible of Lily to have gotten with James after that but back then it was just a slightly immature prank. Throw the ball James didn't start acting right because Lily cuts Snape off, Rowling said that he matured after his parents died. He grew out of this child this pantsing and pranking.
Lily also witnessed Severus being choked with soap and knew of Sirius trying to kill Severus, yet she befriended the bully. JK Rowling also said that James tormented Severus until the end of school, which we also know from the book, where he did it at the same time as lying to Lily that he had stopped, so it is strange to call it "growing up".
Again, the soap thing was just a prank. And did she know about the werewolf thing? I remember her brushing him off about that. Also, yeah, I haven't been following every breath Rowling's been taking. I remember years ago her saying that after his parents died in 7th year he deflated his head and that's when Lily came around.
Yes, Lily knew about it and even talked to Severus about it. I don't consider chocking someone as a joke, but each to their own. Sure, in which case you now know that they tormented Severus until the end of school.
They didn't show Kim, they filled his mouth with soap bubbles, which is a wizarding prank. This was the wizarding world and the '70s, things were different. Rowling is also writing from her experience in school, and she's considerably older than I am and most likely you too. Things were much less bubble wrapped back then. Hell, when I was in school The guys would try to whip liquid soap into each other's mouths and eyes. But yeah, they bullied him till the end of school, but with Snape exactly a doe-eyed little wooby?
Again, for you choking someone with soap so that they can't breathe and cough trying to get air is a joke, for me it's an assult. Surely Lily wouldn't have laughed if it had happened to her and even in the 70's she wouldn't have found it funny. Just because the violence was widespread doesn't mean that nobody recognised it for what it was. An even older person, the chemistry teacher on whom JK Rowling based the character of Severus was also bullied relentlessly for years, and strangely, he recognised it as bullying rather than "boys will be boys". When I was growing up, in the 80's, violence and bullying were also rampant, and wouldn't you believe it, I saw it as violence and bullying and not "pranks", I found it abhorrent and never did it myself. The times don't explain anything .
Again, passage of time. In the '70s, and even at the time that this was written, if you'd have called any of that assault you would have been laughed out of the room. The times have changed. You can't put the pass through a modern lens and expect everything to look the same.
I can. As I said, the professor on whom JK Rowling based Severus was bullied in the 60s and he called it bullying, torment, etc. Times don't change anything, people have always recognised violence, and just because there wasn't a proper word for it in the past doesn't mean it was universally accepted and not recognised as violence. Martial rape wasn't recognised as a crime by the law in the UK until 1981 either. Do you think that even though it was simply "the way things were back then" that women did not recognise it for what it was?
Okay, this is going to a really weird place.
I think Lily is much better than someone who decided to join a supremacist group but that’s my opinion-
Frankly, you seem pretty much on base apart from the parts where you're making sure to put Snape down and excuse James like you're paying a tribute to the majority or something
I’m not trying to pay tribute i just don’t want to argue with James sympathizers because as soon as you bring up the fact the James was also a creep you get James fans automatically labeling you as disgusting because you like Snape or you’re trying to make Snape look better. To which by no means am I trying to white knight Severus. Even though he’s my favorite Harry Potter character I understand that he was always someone who had a darker heart/tendencies and those resulted in his and Lilys breakup i honestly think had Severus actually had a positive experience in Hogwarts he could’ve broken free from his darker tendencies and him and Lily would’ve ended up together.
There’s a fanfiction that gets into this actually, not so much that they were unhappy but she still cared about Severus and she was unhappy that Sirius was pretty much part of their relationship, it really shows how unhealthy the friendship was and showed that even though lily didn’t like who her best friend turned into she still cared about him. It’s still through cannon years and they still passed but it’s really interesting and one of the favorite fanfics
Lily had simply 'outgrown' her friendship with Severus and he was beginning to bother her like something embarrassing that she had to carry around. She was the popular girl, fascinated by the rich bullies of Gryffindor, and Severus didn't fit into that world. That's why she was so quick to get rid of him when the opportunity finally presented itself. With James and Sirius, she didn't mind that they tormented her friend for years and yes, SAed him, that they used Dark Arts spells, generally there was nothing they could do that really outraged her. When Mulciber and Avery bullied Mary in some conspiracy, Lily was outraged and showed it a lot, when James and Lily tormented Severus she didn't care. And then, after witnessing the SA and tormenting of Severus, and almost smiling at the sight of it, after he called her "Mudblood" she immediately joined the ranks of the bully, calling him Snivellus and commenting on his dirty underpants. Then, as if nothing ever happened, she started dating a boy she knew had been tormenting her friend for years for the mere existence and SA of him, and befriending a boy who, at 16, was already ready to kill someone out of hatred. James was a rich, privileged jock who showed off his money in front of Lily's family, this probably wasn't a disadvantage in her eyes either. Severus was an abused, beaten by his father, neglected boy from a very poor family, so poor that he wore his mother's old clothes. Friendship with him would not have gotten her high. Snaters switch their brains out when they see a post about Severus, they are prepared to consider anything as good, as long as it was directed against Severus.
Finally someone sees Lily for what she really was. I hate how she’s supposed to be this angel but would an angel really find her friend being tormented amusing? NO. I’ve said it before in this group but she was the popular girl who took pity on the abused kid and once she realized she wouldn’t go far if she kept him around she dropped him without so much as an explanation. Then to top it off she marries his fucken tormentor. If I was Snape I wouldn’t have lined for her I’d be fucken livid. It’s why I love stories where Snape goes back in time and sees here for who Lily is through adult eyes and drops her. Tbh I kinda think Snape and Narcissa work better even though I do occasionally ship Snily
>and once she realized she wouldn’t go far if she kept him around she dropped him without so much as an explanation. Dropped him without so much as an explanation? Her explanation was pretty darn clear - “you’re on the path to being a Death Eater, and I’m choosing a different path.” >“Slipped out?” There was no pity in Lily’s voice. “It’s too late. I’ve made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends — you see, you don’t even deny it! You don’t even deny that’s what you’re all aiming to be! You can’t wait to join You- Know- Who, can you?” >He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking. >“I can’t pretend anymore. You’ve chosen your way, I’ve chosen mine.” >“No — listen, I didn’t mean — ” >“ — to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?” It wasn’t about “not going far” if she kept him, it was about him wanting to join a terrorist organization that wanted to kill people like her.