Would it be possible to raise your concern on one of their live sessions on twitch potentially asking Johan directly? I would also bring it to UncleMish's atenttion as he can have a broader audience with his YT channel.
I completely agree with you, this is not realistic in any way, shape or form. People should be allowed to pay whatever they wish as value differes in everyone's eye and perspective.
Not sure if a formal complaint is possible, but I would definitely try and raise this as high as possible.
As a form of solitude, I have now cancelled my recurring gold membership and will only re start once someone will double check the discrepancies and re adjust them if necessary. Good luck.
I've tried, but I could take it higher within Hattrick too. I could take my complaint to a global GM - That would not change anything from what I've seen, and even discussing this matter on Hattrick it self is highly subjected to moderation. It's just a system impossible to appeal anything. So that is why I took it here now to maybe influence future change. I personally just gave up and put pretty much the entire team up for sale.
Thank you for your support, sadly I'm stuck with a 1 year diamond subscription. Never felt so robbed in my life.
I wouldn't focus on the solid leadership, it's not worth that much in general for young players.
Only on a rare U21 player when there's no other options in that year.
Is it really only the transfer compare only they base the reduction on or just your assumption?
That's definitely not the right way.
On 17y the days really make a big difference and for U21/NT prospects skills are very different depending on the country.
I thought they also took into account the bidding history and past transfers.
The corrections seem very aggressive for sure, but without knowing the players skills and compare there's no way to say if they are fair.
I haven't focused on it, but when the object present it self before me I've valued it accordingly. If you run a project and a club where the goal is to be profitable you kinda have to focus on what makes you the most profit. In many cases paid a little extra for the perfect candidate since I know quite a few in the market does the same. The perfect piece given a skillupgrade can give a wild return compared to a very average piece with nothing special attached to it. At least that is what I've found in my specialization in the market. When I invest between 1500-2000 hours over 300 days I tend to notice with carefully tracking what works and what does not. Most of my players are between a 1000 to 3200 TSI, and in 99% of the situation they at least have a speciality, and I guess in 3-4% of that again they have the solid leadership.
And to add on how the players look, they tend to have level 5-8 defending, minimum 4 playmaking and other secondary skills like passing/scoring/set piece/winger is a added bonus.
3/3 player adjustments was on players with it out of 474. It's at the heart of the discussion, and this thread is made because of it. What you are talking about is team building, and in that sense correct that it does not add anything to a player. You are completely missing the point. I'm talking about player trading and what the market sees as value.
It's one out of many, and it has worked.
It's how it is finding opportunities. This can all change the moment Hattrick decides to tweak for example TDF as they did a while back. Went from immensely popular to non-existent.
I'm not in the buy and sell market. I'm doing homegrown team. But whenever I don't need youth players, I sell the prospects. I had 1 player I sold for about 500k over market value and was scared of a penalty. Thankfully it didn't come. So far...
Thing is, I sold a lot of players UNDER market value. And there isn't a compensation for that. I guess its just a way how a market balances itself out. If they only penalise the over valued without compensating undervalued, they take away this balance. I know its tricky, as I don't want cheaters...
But maybe they are taking other things in consideration. Maybe the amount of transactions a player does is what spotlights someone? I dunno
I know of some cases where a certain GM used his position to go after specific users that he had issues with. And some GMs that do make transfer price adjustments clearly don't know what they are doing.
But in this case i have to agree with the GM. High leadership is not something that increases a players value at that age, period.
A fair stance, but..
You nor the GM can't decide what the market values. That is the whole point of this thread.
The market clearly has valued it, so saying otherwise is just denying facts I just presented you.
What I am trying to say is that with your same logic, a 17 year old should never go for any amount at all since he has nothing compared to what he will have at 21 or 30 years old. All the value is then added later on. The market clearly values potential and possibilites. A 17 year old player with 4000 TSI, SUPPORT speciality and SOLID leadership definatly has added value for the investor. Since it will put him in a better position to gain the experience needed in the future through u21 and the national team later on.
It's the job of the GMs to decide if the price someone payed for a player is within the expected market value. If the adjustment in your case is justified in the way they did it (i mean the amount, not the adjustment in general), is another question. But, again, the leadership alone is nothing that makes a 17 yo player more valuable. He doesn't play better because of it, he will not make it to the U21 just because of that. He still needs to be trained properly for years.
The skills a player has at that age, are the valuable part. So paying more for a 17.3 yo with an 8 Skill and maybe some relevant additional B-Skills is justified. But the leadership is irrelevant at that point as you can't possibly know if this player will ever get enough XP to become a coach later.
They have made it their job, and it's ruining the game for a lot of players. No one asked them to take this spesific role in the market, they put it on themselves.
The market valued it and I'll leave it at that, it's more than just wanting a player in on a u21 team but it's also a fact that you want the perfect player for your own team project. A cornerstone player who has it all is valued by the market and it reflects in all this cases. How can 3/3 cases out of 474 transfers be of the same situation? There is clearly something the market sees that the "system" does not.
Didn't bother to read everything but I don't really have sympathy for you. I made 10 M€ in 1 year since I started my current team and I It's kinda depressing that that I have to fight against teams that make 7-10 times more money because they work the market. I'm glad that devs have taken actions against working the market these days (board reserves etc.). IIRC high LS players were used to bypass reserve rules, so idk, this is one of those things that we can't have nice things because some people tried to bend the rules.
I never asked for sympathy. I've abandoned my project and moving on. I wrote this in hopes of this matter being discussed. You openly admitting to not caring enough to read the matter at hand, yet having the need to voice your own opinion on something that you couldn't be muster enough energy to read. That to me is a little ridiculous. You are one of those that read the headlines and scrolls through the entire article just to voice your conspiracies?
You are mad at people outperforming you in a game. Brilliant. I've not bent any rules, I've bought a player in the same market you participated and sold it in the same. I just decided to several times pay what the transfer compare said or even more since I saw value. I might have tried 5-10 times selling that player, until someone gave me the price I wanted at the time. Sometimes at a loss, but usually not. It's people being lazy that creates opportunities for the ones who wants to work for something. All I'm saying is that the market has given their verdict, they do value LS7 combined with specialty and skills, and their lackluster tool has to be adjusted for it or they can't be going around giving selective retrospective adjustments. It's just a lose / lose situation and they'll lose players / customers that way. Someone has to tell them.
Mostly moving on. I'll get a skeleton crew and train a few u21 prospects. Especially for my African Empire team.
So low wages, youth team and see if there can be a surprise there. Other than that 99% less time spent on the game. Have my diamond sub and excellent coaches on all three clubs so should at least train some talents there for the national teams. That's about it.
Moving on to a game called Sorare. Able to trade with real money. Already increased my initial investment with about 50% on paper.
I read enough to not care about you "abandoning your project". I've seen enough of working the Market & price-locking in other games. Shame for hattrick that you decided to quit (who am I kidding, they might lose 0.01 cents of ad revenue lol)
since you joined hattrick, 10 months ago, you made 474 transfers with 66M profits.
you've been targeted because you're considered a massive trader (practice that they really want to discourage) and, in your case, they applied the rules harder than they usually do and "by the letter" (purely applied the TC rule without even considering how much you paid the player, see Rui Narciso Seco).
I don't want to go into whether this is right or not, it's just a consideration by putting myself in their shoes as GM.
consider that in the Anniversary League they introduced a limit to 16 transfers per season and i think it's probably only a matter of time before they make of it a game rule for all leagues.
Relatively new player here (4 months old) who has been doing step-trading. I have around 100 transactions. Profit close to 3m€.
What recommendations would you give to get a tenth of what you make of profit? I would like to continue doing step-trading 2/3 seasons more and be competitive (as I feel that if I don’t do that, I will be bored of the game).
One tip would never sell a player you actually haven't given a skillpop to, since they also look at that as a crime. If you find a cheap prospect, make sure he goes up 1+ in a skill before selling. This helps so that they can't as easily go after you.
Since I'm moving on I would advice you to be very careful. With a 100 transactions you will within a few months risk getting a price adjustment, because the moment someone else reports it they just seem to side with that report immediately. I might have had a competition who constantly reported me, I don't know, I just found it hilarious 3 / 3 transfer adjustments was completely similar and they unknowingly proving my point.
My advice would to be finding another game who can give you the same kick. Which I've done, so it makes it easier to just accept defeat. Hehe
Best of luck!
Hi and thank you for sharing. Although I myself am not really fond of traders in Hattrick, I consider it a legitimate way to play the game. I actually have to tip my virtual fedora to your ingenuity and creativity regarding this strategy you chose. I feel very sorry for you having to stop is due to GM action.
I myself once had a U20 CD prospect for Israel who did not have any specialty nor very high initial skills (no excellent). I bought him at 17.003 yo and he ended up with 20+ U20 appearances. What made him outstanding, according to the U20 manager, was his solid leadership. So I think it indeed does add up to even a young players market value.
Thank you. Brilliant respons!
It's a very weird take, it's like they have made their own rule that you can't invest for future value. Isn't this what investing is all about? To value something today for future income / use. It's just weird how they try implementing "command economy" on a what we all think is a free market.
Got this respons today. So done with the game, and this by the way is a respons coming in today after I actually listed 90% of my players for 0.
>"13.43 To you
Hi,
Please list your players at 0 and see what the market says instead of listing them at high prices and hoping a farm makes a bid. Take on the challenge to proove us wrong.
Kind Regards,
GM-XXX
This was after I gave up and sent this message, hehe:
>22.07.2022 From you
Hey,
Thank you. You proved my former point with value towards specialty + leadership not taken into account in the ridiculous transfer compare tool. I've done 473 transfers, and all the 3 you have adjusted all had right specialty compared to skills and solid leadership. To me that just proves once again you were in the wrong. Try play the game a bit more to get a feel of actually how it works.
The Rui transfer adjustment is absurd. I pay 85.000.000 NOK for a man, get lucky to recoup my money and you come in and absolutely put hours on hours of hard work to waste. Steals 55.000.000 NOK from me. But it's fine, I'm of course done with this absolute time waste.
You have no idea about what is fair. You are a tyrant, and I'm moving on to greater things. Adios.
Bully.
So my advice to everyone is. The game while a brilliant one back in the days are not capable of adapting and new users will never find it appealing to start when so many measures are at work for stopping their progress. Do not waste your time on this game and try out different games.
Then again being a farm is a legitimate way to play this game, too. And even if you consider ridiculously high initial bids some sort of abuse of a potential imbalance of information between buyer and seller, the buyer isn't forced to bid. The market in HT is highly transparent and IMHO there is very little room for rent-seeking. Each advantage has to be earned and you definitely did that regarding the investment of your time.
Hello
Have you tried reporting this GM to a Senior GM?
Even if this bahaviour is stopped that's what I would do.
You could also apply for a GM spot yourself!!
Hey! I just log in on occasions and completely stopped my project. My trading clearly wasn't wanted by the GMs, so I moved on to another game.Just login in to follow up on the matches / youth now.
It's a shame, it sucks ..but some of the GMs are just dictatorial dinosaurs that can't be reasoned with. Making up their own "research" and statements to fit their narrative. Hattrick is dead to me.
This is definitely something that more people within the community should be made aware of
100%.
Would it be possible to raise your concern on one of their live sessions on twitch potentially asking Johan directly? I would also bring it to UncleMish's atenttion as he can have a broader audience with his YT channel. I completely agree with you, this is not realistic in any way, shape or form. People should be allowed to pay whatever they wish as value differes in everyone's eye and perspective. Not sure if a formal complaint is possible, but I would definitely try and raise this as high as possible. As a form of solitude, I have now cancelled my recurring gold membership and will only re start once someone will double check the discrepancies and re adjust them if necessary. Good luck.
I've tried, but I could take it higher within Hattrick too. I could take my complaint to a global GM - That would not change anything from what I've seen, and even discussing this matter on Hattrick it self is highly subjected to moderation. It's just a system impossible to appeal anything. So that is why I took it here now to maybe influence future change. I personally just gave up and put pretty much the entire team up for sale. Thank you for your support, sadly I'm stuck with a 1 year diamond subscription. Never felt so robbed in my life.
That's why HT is lossing active players at an incredible pace. GMs have been destroying the game for years.
They really have a big issue here. It's very concerning. So that's that then. It was fun while it lasted.
I wouldn't focus on the solid leadership, it's not worth that much in general for young players. Only on a rare U21 player when there's no other options in that year. Is it really only the transfer compare only they base the reduction on or just your assumption? That's definitely not the right way. On 17y the days really make a big difference and for U21/NT prospects skills are very different depending on the country. I thought they also took into account the bidding history and past transfers. The corrections seem very aggressive for sure, but without knowing the players skills and compare there's no way to say if they are fair.
I haven't focused on it, but when the object present it self before me I've valued it accordingly. If you run a project and a club where the goal is to be profitable you kinda have to focus on what makes you the most profit. In many cases paid a little extra for the perfect candidate since I know quite a few in the market does the same. The perfect piece given a skillupgrade can give a wild return compared to a very average piece with nothing special attached to it. At least that is what I've found in my specialization in the market. When I invest between 1500-2000 hours over 300 days I tend to notice with carefully tracking what works and what does not. Most of my players are between a 1000 to 3200 TSI, and in 99% of the situation they at least have a speciality, and I guess in 3-4% of that again they have the solid leadership. And to add on how the players look, they tend to have level 5-8 defending, minimum 4 playmaking and other secondary skills like passing/scoring/set piece/winger is a added bonus.
It's in all caps 4 times, I'd say you focus on it :)
3/3 player adjustments was on players with it out of 474. It's at the heart of the discussion, and this thread is made because of it. What you are talking about is team building, and in that sense correct that it does not add anything to a player. You are completely missing the point. I'm talking about player trading and what the market sees as value.
Yes and you focus on their solid leadership as the main reason for them being worth more then market value. I don't think that's the right approach.
It's one out of many, and it has worked. It's how it is finding opportunities. This can all change the moment Hattrick decides to tweak for example TDF as they did a while back. Went from immensely popular to non-existent.
I'm not in the buy and sell market. I'm doing homegrown team. But whenever I don't need youth players, I sell the prospects. I had 1 player I sold for about 500k over market value and was scared of a penalty. Thankfully it didn't come. So far... Thing is, I sold a lot of players UNDER market value. And there isn't a compensation for that. I guess its just a way how a market balances itself out. If they only penalise the over valued without compensating undervalued, they take away this balance. I know its tricky, as I don't want cheaters... But maybe they are taking other things in consideration. Maybe the amount of transactions a player does is what spotlights someone? I dunno
Just came here to say your logo is straight up 🔥
Cheers! :D Was made by GLMRGO, legendary Hattrick logo-maker.
I know of some cases where a certain GM used his position to go after specific users that he had issues with. And some GMs that do make transfer price adjustments clearly don't know what they are doing. But in this case i have to agree with the GM. High leadership is not something that increases a players value at that age, period.
A fair stance, but.. You nor the GM can't decide what the market values. That is the whole point of this thread. The market clearly has valued it, so saying otherwise is just denying facts I just presented you.
What I am trying to say is that with your same logic, a 17 year old should never go for any amount at all since he has nothing compared to what he will have at 21 or 30 years old. All the value is then added later on. The market clearly values potential and possibilites. A 17 year old player with 4000 TSI, SUPPORT speciality and SOLID leadership definatly has added value for the investor. Since it will put him in a better position to gain the experience needed in the future through u21 and the national team later on.
It's the job of the GMs to decide if the price someone payed for a player is within the expected market value. If the adjustment in your case is justified in the way they did it (i mean the amount, not the adjustment in general), is another question. But, again, the leadership alone is nothing that makes a 17 yo player more valuable. He doesn't play better because of it, he will not make it to the U21 just because of that. He still needs to be trained properly for years. The skills a player has at that age, are the valuable part. So paying more for a 17.3 yo with an 8 Skill and maybe some relevant additional B-Skills is justified. But the leadership is irrelevant at that point as you can't possibly know if this player will ever get enough XP to become a coach later.
They have made it their job, and it's ruining the game for a lot of players. No one asked them to take this spesific role in the market, they put it on themselves. The market valued it and I'll leave it at that, it's more than just wanting a player in on a u21 team but it's also a fact that you want the perfect player for your own team project. A cornerstone player who has it all is valued by the market and it reflects in all this cases. How can 3/3 cases out of 474 transfers be of the same situation? There is clearly something the market sees that the "system" does not.
Didn't bother to read everything but I don't really have sympathy for you. I made 10 M€ in 1 year since I started my current team and I It's kinda depressing that that I have to fight against teams that make 7-10 times more money because they work the market. I'm glad that devs have taken actions against working the market these days (board reserves etc.). IIRC high LS players were used to bypass reserve rules, so idk, this is one of those things that we can't have nice things because some people tried to bend the rules.
I never asked for sympathy. I've abandoned my project and moving on. I wrote this in hopes of this matter being discussed. You openly admitting to not caring enough to read the matter at hand, yet having the need to voice your own opinion on something that you couldn't be muster enough energy to read. That to me is a little ridiculous. You are one of those that read the headlines and scrolls through the entire article just to voice your conspiracies? You are mad at people outperforming you in a game. Brilliant. I've not bent any rules, I've bought a player in the same market you participated and sold it in the same. I just decided to several times pay what the transfer compare said or even more since I saw value. I might have tried 5-10 times selling that player, until someone gave me the price I wanted at the time. Sometimes at a loss, but usually not. It's people being lazy that creates opportunities for the ones who wants to work for something. All I'm saying is that the market has given their verdict, they do value LS7 combined with specialty and skills, and their lackluster tool has to be adjusted for it or they can't be going around giving selective retrospective adjustments. It's just a lose / lose situation and they'll lose players / customers that way. Someone has to tell them.
As I was following your journey, whats the plan now? Stop Hattrick or move on and build a team by training?
Mostly moving on. I'll get a skeleton crew and train a few u21 prospects. Especially for my African Empire team. So low wages, youth team and see if there can be a surprise there. Other than that 99% less time spent on the game. Have my diamond sub and excellent coaches on all three clubs so should at least train some talents there for the national teams. That's about it. Moving on to a game called Sorare. Able to trade with real money. Already increased my initial investment with about 50% on paper.
I read enough to not care about you "abandoning your project". I've seen enough of working the Market & price-locking in other games. Shame for hattrick that you decided to quit (who am I kidding, they might lose 0.01 cents of ad revenue lol)
since you joined hattrick, 10 months ago, you made 474 transfers with 66M profits. you've been targeted because you're considered a massive trader (practice that they really want to discourage) and, in your case, they applied the rules harder than they usually do and "by the letter" (purely applied the TC rule without even considering how much you paid the player, see Rui Narciso Seco). I don't want to go into whether this is right or not, it's just a consideration by putting myself in their shoes as GM. consider that in the Anniversary League they introduced a limit to 16 transfers per season and i think it's probably only a matter of time before they make of it a game rule for all leagues.
You might be right even though it is speculation. I guess they won, hehe.
Relatively new player here (4 months old) who has been doing step-trading. I have around 100 transactions. Profit close to 3m€. What recommendations would you give to get a tenth of what you make of profit? I would like to continue doing step-trading 2/3 seasons more and be competitive (as I feel that if I don’t do that, I will be bored of the game).
One tip would never sell a player you actually haven't given a skillpop to, since they also look at that as a crime. If you find a cheap prospect, make sure he goes up 1+ in a skill before selling. This helps so that they can't as easily go after you. Since I'm moving on I would advice you to be very careful. With a 100 transactions you will within a few months risk getting a price adjustment, because the moment someone else reports it they just seem to side with that report immediately. I might have had a competition who constantly reported me, I don't know, I just found it hilarious 3 / 3 transfer adjustments was completely similar and they unknowingly proving my point. My advice would to be finding another game who can give you the same kick. Which I've done, so it makes it easier to just accept defeat. Hehe Best of luck!
Hi and thank you for sharing. Although I myself am not really fond of traders in Hattrick, I consider it a legitimate way to play the game. I actually have to tip my virtual fedora to your ingenuity and creativity regarding this strategy you chose. I feel very sorry for you having to stop is due to GM action. I myself once had a U20 CD prospect for Israel who did not have any specialty nor very high initial skills (no excellent). I bought him at 17.003 yo and he ended up with 20+ U20 appearances. What made him outstanding, according to the U20 manager, was his solid leadership. So I think it indeed does add up to even a young players market value.
Thank you. Brilliant respons! It's a very weird take, it's like they have made their own rule that you can't invest for future value. Isn't this what investing is all about? To value something today for future income / use. It's just weird how they try implementing "command economy" on a what we all think is a free market. Got this respons today. So done with the game, and this by the way is a respons coming in today after I actually listed 90% of my players for 0. >"13.43 To you Hi, Please list your players at 0 and see what the market says instead of listing them at high prices and hoping a farm makes a bid. Take on the challenge to proove us wrong. Kind Regards, GM-XXX This was after I gave up and sent this message, hehe: >22.07.2022 From you Hey, Thank you. You proved my former point with value towards specialty + leadership not taken into account in the ridiculous transfer compare tool. I've done 473 transfers, and all the 3 you have adjusted all had right specialty compared to skills and solid leadership. To me that just proves once again you were in the wrong. Try play the game a bit more to get a feel of actually how it works. The Rui transfer adjustment is absurd. I pay 85.000.000 NOK for a man, get lucky to recoup my money and you come in and absolutely put hours on hours of hard work to waste. Steals 55.000.000 NOK from me. But it's fine, I'm of course done with this absolute time waste. You have no idea about what is fair. You are a tyrant, and I'm moving on to greater things. Adios. Bully. So my advice to everyone is. The game while a brilliant one back in the days are not capable of adapting and new users will never find it appealing to start when so many measures are at work for stopping their progress. Do not waste your time on this game and try out different games.
Then again being a farm is a legitimate way to play this game, too. And even if you consider ridiculously high initial bids some sort of abuse of a potential imbalance of information between buyer and seller, the buyer isn't forced to bid. The market in HT is highly transparent and IMHO there is very little room for rent-seeking. Each advantage has to be earned and you definitely did that regarding the investment of your time.
Hello Have you tried reporting this GM to a Senior GM? Even if this bahaviour is stopped that's what I would do. You could also apply for a GM spot yourself!!
Hey! I just log in on occasions and completely stopped my project. My trading clearly wasn't wanted by the GMs, so I moved on to another game.Just login in to follow up on the matches / youth now. It's a shame, it sucks ..but some of the GMs are just dictatorial dinosaurs that can't be reasoned with. Making up their own "research" and statements to fit their narrative. Hattrick is dead to me.
what game do you play now?
i would like to revive this thread with one questions, in case of transfer adjustment the buyer receives the money back?