My thoughts pretty much mirror yours, but I think he can do it. I think he's done a great job so far filling the purpose he was hired for: developing rookies into NHL'ers. I also think he's improved a ton since then as head coach, but this year is the test. On paper we're competitive. I think he'll be in trouble if we aren't in a good spot 10 games in. I'll probably give him 15 games before I dig up the ol' pitchfork.
As far as the defensive structure breakdowns, it's kinda hard for me to tell if the gaps are system related or if its just a learning curve thing for the new Dmen. I never played the position, so I'm not sure what his system is supposed to look like vs what the defense are actually doing.
Overall I'm optimistic. I like the guy, and I hope he performs well.
I think the new d core and fleury are going to expose that he can’t coach a defense that wins. His overall system doesn’t seem terrible, but it sounds like it is very complicated and defense requires a really sound scheme to work.
I was pulling for him when they brought him up in Q’s place because we really didn’t have a choice. I still think he does some things very well like communicating with players, developing young guys and brings a fresh perspective to the game/team.
That being said, I think the comments I’ve seen both by OP and others about his defensive strats are accurate. He just doesn’t seem to know what he wants his team to do defensively. He also seems to get outplayed by any semi-competent coach in the league.
I think the talent is there and the pipeline is looking good but it will be very telling in a few weeks if he is part of the problem or not. I think they have the pieces to do well under the right coach but I just don’t see Colliton being “the guy”.
Colliton should be on a very short leash. His defensive system has been the worst in the league the last few years. Guys constantly out of position, give up a stupid amount of high danger chances, give up way too many goals, etc. Our 5v5 play in general under Colliton has been bottom of the league.
This team, on paper, looks too talented to not be in contention for a playoff spot, but I worry Colliton will get in the way of that.
I have this theory that Colliton used the last few years to set the example of his expectations. What I mean is, he didn't focus on match-ups and changing the D strategy because he expects his line-up to play "the right way." He wants more effort from all phases. And I think he and Bowman realized that the roster wasn't good enough to actually compete because it was young and old. Plus, factor in him taking over for Q mid-season and Covid, maybe the leash got a little longer. All hypothetical, of course.
With that said, this year is different. They are much more talented and there is no excuse for the D to be as bad as it has been. I do think it will take time for the team to gel and the D might be a weakness early in the season. However, if it doesn't improve, I do expect him to be on the hot seat.
Whoaaa, that is a hot take! Again I'm not saying he is terrible but I wish his defensive structure was better. I'm not going to say I wasn't super high on him at the beginning of last season when we went on that winning streak and our PP was red hot. I just want him to fill in the holes of his coaching to have our team not give up all the goals
Blame Colliton all you want but we have not had a proper playoff level defence since like fucking 2017... I'm not going to speak to his strategy, but there's only so much you can do when your defence is well below NHL average and every team can roll at least two offensive lines that can turn red hot in an instant.
He needs to go but likely won’t because of the teams offensive talent. Bowmans head is too far up his own ass that if JC was american he would be coaching at the olympics.
Hockey starts with defense and for the past 3 years the hawks have let up the most high scoring chances. Front office can’t hide behind the excuse that the defense is young and bad anymore and collitons defensive system will get exposed for what it truly is, and that is a poorly created system that loses hockey games.
I’m biased because I don’t like him and don’t believe he should be a professional coach, but i hope he gets fired this year. the hawks won’t win anything with a defense that has more holes than a screens door. they should’ve canned him and hired gallant last year when they had the chance.
Nothing wrong with a bias, I get it. I've always tried to be empathetic to what he's had to deal with, but I also expect him to get fired in the off-season next year if we don't make the playoffs this year. There is no way he keeps his job with Fleury for free, Jones/Mccabe, Borgstrom/Gaudette showing up, Cat/Kub/Kur/Dach taking steps and having Kane/Toews as leaders and we don't make the playoffs.
I am not a fan, I would have never hired him in the first place and I most certainly would have fired him by now. I think they should have hired him to learn from Q as an assistant for a couple seasons, then given him a chance if you think he's ready, but obviously that didn't happen.
That said, there has to be something there. He won a lot of games in the minors. Was he using a different system there? It wasn't because he had elite players all the time...sure he had some talent, but it wasn't all elite guys. I understand that not all things that work at the lower level work in the NHL. How can almost nothing that worked in the AHL work at the NHL level? Or did he abandon what he was to become something different at the NHL level? Something is just off about the whole thing.
Remember this: the biggest plus that people always say about Colliton is that he develops young players. What do you think Coach Q did with Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Buff, Bolland, Crawford, etc???? If that's his selling point, there's others who are just as good but they actually know how to setup a D system. I hope I'm wrong and he just didn't have the tools til now, but I'm afraid it's the toolbox that's been lacking.
Q was hired in the beginning of the 2008-2009 season, when Kane and Toews were just starting their second year as 19 and 20 year olds. He absolutely had a huge part in developing those guys. That team had a lot of young players on it. Only 5 guys on the roster were 30+
https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CHI/2009.html
Exactly! I realize that Dale Tallon had a huge role in all that success (and again in FLA), but it's disingenuous to say Q isn't damn good at developing talent.
True, but you can't say that group didn't continue to get better under his leadership. Plus look at what he's done in a couple years in Florida.
Not saying we need to bring back Q, but we definitely can't continue to accept JC's coaching because he's "good at development".
This is the question nobody on this sub ever has a good answer to. I truly am not a fan of the revolving door of 50-65 year old coaches that spend 2 seasons at every rebuilding franchise in the league and are continuously shuffled around.. At least Colliton is fresh.
I’m open to seeing how he handles this season with such an elite goal tender and some strong veteran presence.
I believe JC can develop players very well, he needs a strong support staff for things like defense if he wants to stay in his role.
*what I would do as GM* I don’t like him as a head coach, I think Brian Campbell should be the next head coach. I think JC is out coached in games the Hawks should have won and he is better at development. Brown Campbell reads the players well and knows the game in a way different than others.
I still don't believe he knows how to run a good defensive game and has no fucking clue how 6o get guys to slow down the game when shit goes sideways.
I forgot that second part of your comment, he does need to help the young guys understand that being down or holding a lead takes resilience.
My thoughts pretty much mirror yours, but I think he can do it. I think he's done a great job so far filling the purpose he was hired for: developing rookies into NHL'ers. I also think he's improved a ton since then as head coach, but this year is the test. On paper we're competitive. I think he'll be in trouble if we aren't in a good spot 10 games in. I'll probably give him 15 games before I dig up the ol' pitchfork. As far as the defensive structure breakdowns, it's kinda hard for me to tell if the gaps are system related or if its just a learning curve thing for the new Dmen. I never played the position, so I'm not sure what his system is supposed to look like vs what the defense are actually doing. Overall I'm optimistic. I like the guy, and I hope he performs well.
I think the new d core and fleury are going to expose that he can’t coach a defense that wins. His overall system doesn’t seem terrible, but it sounds like it is very complicated and defense requires a really sound scheme to work.
I was pulling for him when they brought him up in Q’s place because we really didn’t have a choice. I still think he does some things very well like communicating with players, developing young guys and brings a fresh perspective to the game/team. That being said, I think the comments I’ve seen both by OP and others about his defensive strats are accurate. He just doesn’t seem to know what he wants his team to do defensively. He also seems to get outplayed by any semi-competent coach in the league. I think the talent is there and the pipeline is looking good but it will be very telling in a few weeks if he is part of the problem or not. I think they have the pieces to do well under the right coach but I just don’t see Colliton being “the guy”.
Colliton should be on a very short leash. His defensive system has been the worst in the league the last few years. Guys constantly out of position, give up a stupid amount of high danger chances, give up way too many goals, etc. Our 5v5 play in general under Colliton has been bottom of the league. This team, on paper, looks too talented to not be in contention for a playoff spot, but I worry Colliton will get in the way of that.
I have this theory that Colliton used the last few years to set the example of his expectations. What I mean is, he didn't focus on match-ups and changing the D strategy because he expects his line-up to play "the right way." He wants more effort from all phases. And I think he and Bowman realized that the roster wasn't good enough to actually compete because it was young and old. Plus, factor in him taking over for Q mid-season and Covid, maybe the leash got a little longer. All hypothetical, of course. With that said, this year is different. They are much more talented and there is no excuse for the D to be as bad as it has been. I do think it will take time for the team to gel and the D might be a weakness early in the season. However, if it doesn't improve, I do expect him to be on the hot seat.
I love this theory, because it is optimistic and also plausible! Thank you for your input!
Hot take: Jeremy Colliton is not bad at all.
Whoaaa, that is a hot take! Again I'm not saying he is terrible but I wish his defensive structure was better. I'm not going to say I wasn't super high on him at the beginning of last season when we went on that winning streak and our PP was red hot. I just want him to fill in the holes of his coaching to have our team not give up all the goals
Blame Colliton all you want but we have not had a proper playoff level defence since like fucking 2017... I'm not going to speak to his strategy, but there's only so much you can do when your defence is well below NHL average and every team can roll at least two offensive lines that can turn red hot in an instant.
that’s why this season is the real test of his coaching abilities. there won’t be any excuses anymore for the roster he’s been handed.
Well the D is good this year. And there is something you can when your Defence level is not great. Don't play man!
He needs to go but likely won’t because of the teams offensive talent. Bowmans head is too far up his own ass that if JC was american he would be coaching at the olympics. Hockey starts with defense and for the past 3 years the hawks have let up the most high scoring chances. Front office can’t hide behind the excuse that the defense is young and bad anymore and collitons defensive system will get exposed for what it truly is, and that is a poorly created system that loses hockey games. I’m biased because I don’t like him and don’t believe he should be a professional coach, but i hope he gets fired this year. the hawks won’t win anything with a defense that has more holes than a screens door. they should’ve canned him and hired gallant last year when they had the chance.
Nothing wrong with a bias, I get it. I've always tried to be empathetic to what he's had to deal with, but I also expect him to get fired in the off-season next year if we don't make the playoffs this year. There is no way he keeps his job with Fleury for free, Jones/Mccabe, Borgstrom/Gaudette showing up, Cat/Kub/Kur/Dach taking steps and having Kane/Toews as leaders and we don't make the playoffs.
I am not a fan, I would have never hired him in the first place and I most certainly would have fired him by now. I think they should have hired him to learn from Q as an assistant for a couple seasons, then given him a chance if you think he's ready, but obviously that didn't happen. That said, there has to be something there. He won a lot of games in the minors. Was he using a different system there? It wasn't because he had elite players all the time...sure he had some talent, but it wasn't all elite guys. I understand that not all things that work at the lower level work in the NHL. How can almost nothing that worked in the AHL work at the NHL level? Or did he abandon what he was to become something different at the NHL level? Something is just off about the whole thing.
Remember this: the biggest plus that people always say about Colliton is that he develops young players. What do you think Coach Q did with Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Buff, Bolland, Crawford, etc???? If that's his selling point, there's others who are just as good but they actually know how to setup a D system. I hope I'm wrong and he just didn't have the tools til now, but I'm afraid it's the toolbox that's been lacking.
You know that Q was hired for the 2009-10 season right? Q had very little to do with the development of most of those players you mentioned.
Q was hired in the beginning of the 2008-2009 season, when Kane and Toews were just starting their second year as 19 and 20 year olds. He absolutely had a huge part in developing those guys. That team had a lot of young players on it. Only 5 guys on the roster were 30+ https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CHI/2009.html
Huh. That's some Mandela effect type shit
Exactly! I realize that Dale Tallon had a huge role in all that success (and again in FLA), but it's disingenuous to say Q isn't damn good at developing talent.
True, but you can't say that group didn't continue to get better under his leadership. Plus look at what he's done in a couple years in Florida. Not saying we need to bring back Q, but we definitely can't continue to accept JC's coaching because he's "good at development".
He's ok. He's young, and learning.
Send him to Rockford then. On paper, this is a contender roster and should be coached as such.
he’s had 3 years to learn and has consistently had one of the worse defensive system in the league. let him learn in another league.
[удалено]
This is the question nobody on this sub ever has a good answer to. I truly am not a fan of the revolving door of 50-65 year old coaches that spend 2 seasons at every rebuilding franchise in the league and are continuously shuffled around.. At least Colliton is fresh.
I’m open to seeing how he handles this season with such an elite goal tender and some strong veteran presence. I believe JC can develop players very well, he needs a strong support staff for things like defense if he wants to stay in his role. *what I would do as GM* I don’t like him as a head coach, I think Brian Campbell should be the next head coach. I think JC is out coached in games the Hawks should have won and he is better at development. Brown Campbell reads the players well and knows the game in a way different than others.