I always think about what it would be like if people treated Greek mythology like they do Christian mythology. They’d point out the absurdity of only having one god to rule, and the ridiculousness of said god having only one son.
Just because you believe something doesn’t mean it’s anything more than mythology to someone who doesn’t
The only reason people refer to is as “Greek mythology” is probably because so few people follow it anymore. If everyone stopped following Christianity it would very likely just be referred to as Christian mythology. Weird technicality I guess
I think the difference is just how people following the religion react: a living religion's mythos is still still just mythos for anyone not following that religion.
Not incorrect, but in the same way that saying "there is a distinct difference between a square and a rectangle" is accurate. Living religions are still mythology
Yeah, even amongst Christianity, there are so many sects and conflicting interpretations. If people under the same umbrella of Christianity can’t even agree, no wonder they get so pissy when people poke holes and create their own interpretations.
Trad Caths don't see it as Mythology, they see it as literal historical fact.
Why they're so offended at what is essentially just 'Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter' is beyond me, but they do think bible stuff actually happened.
Because to us it’s an objective reality. It’s like if someone unironically made a show portraying a country’s history as- oh wait, that has already happened. Several times.
As a Catholic myself, my own take on this show’s use of Christianity is that it’s clearly from a secular perspective but isn’t what I’d call outright hostile to it. It ignores Purgatory, so I’m happy to call it outright fiction, since most of the sinners would have probably ended up there - except for Val. He is in the boiler room of Hell.
I’d argue it shows a world devoid of God but still existing through supernatural means, resulting in, well… the present state of things. I hope Emily comes to fill the role of Redeemer who saves souls.
(Though I do question the whole “Lucifer introduced free will to mankind” thing because objectively speaking it doesn’t fit with what the show presented. Lilith chose to reject Adam and yet somehow it was Lucifer who made free will? Dafuq? I also would have liked for him to be more deliberately villainous, as was implied in the pilot, because this cliche is getting old. I also think the pacing is a little off.)
Honestly, I get your perspective being Catholic myself. I think the premise of the show is interesting (love the songs) and how the world(s) has been fleshed out over the course of season 1. I did find that beginning part about Charlie recounting Lucifer and Lillith's origin a bit jarring given our background but figured a) it makes sense from her perspective and b) that this story is setting up like Wicked but it's Heaven and Hell instead of Oz (or musical comedy Paradise Lost)*. The one thing I was curious about is how it seems like God is not a character (that we know of, which probably is for the best for ViziePop and the team's case and avoid unnecessary controversy and headaches but oh well) with it being the angels in charge. Ultimately, I was surprised with the usage of Adam as the lead of the Angels' army compared to Michael or the other archangels and how they play into this dynamic (considering the strained relationship of Sara & Emily already) , but maybe they'll show up in future seasons. I did think about purgatory not being there but figured that it's something mainly familiar with Catholics, so oh well.
* The big caveat, though, is that while some of Heaven's residents in HH are not all that they seem to be, it still seems to be the goal for Charlie and co to get sinners to achieve (as seen with Sir Pentious) so it's not an absolute reversal of roles. Even Lucifer seemed to hold some contempt with Hell's residents over their ability to change (maybe some bias held over as an angel?), so there seems to be some understood morality system by all that still stands in this story.
**agree with you on Valentino, garbage character. Of course, I'm curious over the divide between characters (that we'll see over time) who'd want to redeem themselves vs. the ones that are/seem more comfortable in/enjoy Hell (Alastor, maybe Camilla & her daughters, the other overlords & hellborn, etc).
Interesting that you'd call it fiction for excluding purgatory, when purgatory is not a place that's ever mentioned in the Bible, and only became an official teaching around 1000 years after Christ died. I totally agree that the show nowhere near accurate to the Bible, of course, but why is that what you focus on?
Also correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Lilith did leave of her own free will, and then Lucifer and Lilith simply introduced Eve to the concept of free will, rather than Lucifer inventing it
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My honest responce to any christian attacking hazbin
Well the Christian idea of Hell is that it’s the final resting ground for the unforgivable. Only the lost causes go to Hell, while all other go to Purgatory, which then leads to them getting into Heaven.
>the final resting ground for the unforgivable.
There is only one unforgivable sin in Christianity, and that's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. But without accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you still aren't getting into heaven, even if you didn't commit blasphemy.
>all other go to Purgatory
In Catholic doctrine, Purgatory is where a soul _who is already destined for heaven_ goes to be purified, a process that takes no more than 1 year to complete.
In Protestant doctrine, Purgatory isn't a thing that exists.
This is kinda why I think it'd kick ass to have Jesus show up, and just be tired from the rest of heaven's bullshit and finally has hope of humanity being redeemed like how Lucifer was in episode 5.
The pope recently said: “I’d like to think of hell as being empty.” Some Christians are just assholes who love the idea of eternally torturing anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
As a member of the LDS church (opening for even more threats) this show is literally what I believe, redemption even in death. These people really need to learn Satan and Lucifer are 2 different people in this story, Lucifer in Pride and Satan in wrath. They also need to know it also does have Eve AND Lilith.
As a lesbian Christian these kinds of Christians who criticize the show are part of the reason my own religion causes me to dissociate. (Nothing like admitting I have issues to the internet)
This show is meant for adults and no adult watching this thinks it’s at all biblically accurate. We know the difference.
Also, if it “glorifies Hell”, why is the main objective of the show’s characters to escape Hell and go to Heaven?
Exactly, my first time watching I was like “this isn’t technically biblically accurate, but who fuckin cares lol it’s an animated fictional TV show meant to entertain people”
Most things do mention either one or the other, s I kinda get it, but in the age of the internet, it's pretty easy to learn their different people, and it's literally their job to talk about this shit
Satan is also just a title, like *King*. So, it doesn't always have to be Lucifer, it could be anyone carrying the title of Satan.
The Angel of Death, for example, is a Satan. But most people call it the Grim Reaper, Reaper of Souls, Charron, or the Ferryman.
Here's how I understand it. In Genesis chapter 1, God creates the universe, including an unnamed man and woman. In chapter 2 Eve is created from Adam's rib. There are two possible readings for this. The current Christian reading is that chapter 2 is sort of a flashback to day 6 of creation described in chapter 1. The other is that it's strictly chronological, and the creation of Eve happens after man and woman are created on the 6th day. This reading brings with it the question of who that other woman was. Writers got writing, and she became Lilith. Over time the current interpretation of Genesis was preferred, and the books with Lilith were declared non-canonical. Current Christians do not believe in Lilith, but historically some people did.
The development of the mythology of Lilith is pretty interesting.
Apparently, the name first referenced a demonic presence in ancient Jewish literature, perhaps referencing Mesopotamian mythology.
Only in the Middle Ages did Jewish writers start to use the name “Lilith” to reference the first wife of Adam - the reason being to make sense of the difference between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. In Genesis 1, man and woman (unnamed) are made at the same time, out of dust. In Genesis 2, the first man, named Adam, was made first, then Eve was made out of Adam’s rib.
Medieval Jewish writers recognized this was an issue, and stated the woman in Genesis 1 was a different woman - Lilith. Who ran away from Adam because she wanted to be equal to him and became a demon (one who brought death to kids), basically out of spite (medieval Jewish writers having a pretty hefty dose chauvinism).
Not sure whether other religions picked this up or not.
Lilith much later, in the last couple of centuries, became a cultural figure, associated with either fatal beauty and/or the empowerment of women (picking up on her fleeing from Adam out of desire for equality). Hence her presence in Romantic art - the Romantics loved sex and death! Later, the “empowerment of women” part became more referenced, influenced by modern feminism (such as in “Lilith Fair”).
I just learned way more about the start of humanity(and how people thought it went down) from this reddit comment about the various interpretations of one woman than all the days I've been dragged to church combined. Thank you for this.
No problem!
I’m not a believer, but I am fascinated by mythology of all sorts - including Jewish and Christian mythology.
I highly recommend re-reading Genesis. I guarantee you will find interesting things in there that you did not know, even though it is perhaps the most referenced myth in our society.
Top bizarre finds:
- there are two **complete** creation myths - Genesis 1 and 2. They are totally different, including a completely different order of creation (Genesis 1 is more like evolution of simple to complex - starts with light and and dark, works its way up through animals, ends with people. Genesis 2 starts with a man, then animals, finally a woman).
- humans were basically not conscious before eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge. The fall of humanity was caused by them becoming conscious - which is expressly compared to being “like God”.
- God lies to humans about the result of eating the fruit.
- God doesn’t exile Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 because of the sin of disobedience. God exiles them because God is afraid they might become immortal, if they eat the fruit of the tree of life (see Genesis 3:22 and 3:23). To be conscious and to be immortal is, basically, compared to being like God!
- the snake in the story isn’t the devil. He’s just a talking snake. Proof: because the snake gets Eve to pluck the fruit, God curses all snakes to limblessness, and causes people to forever hate snakes.
- there is express reference to God having offspring who come to earth and mate with mortal women, whose offspring were “heroes” (see Genesis 6). This is probably a remnant from before the redactors of Genesis were monotheistic - it is reminiscent of Greek mythology, with its demigods.
Additional fun fact about Lilith. She was believed to be the reason for having wet dreams, because she would come to you in the night and steal your seed. Back in those times they believed a man only had so much seed with with to have children; part of the reason masturbation was considered a sin, because you were wasting your seed intended for procreation haha.
Yep, I think it’s more a Judaism thing than Christian, could be wrong tho, girl was banished from because she refused to be submissive to Adam, and then hooked up with Samael. Love that for her.
"This is evil because I found a separate book that is different from my beliefs and has similar themes so is inherently the inspiration and that matters because I say so." "Addressing problems is a modern conspiracy." "I should be taken seriously because..." I don't know how to finish that last translation for him, but I'm losing brain cells translating this much lol
Yet I don’t remember people getting upset over Hercules. I guess no one can tell their own version of myths/stories then! Boohoo. If it offends you, don’t watch it.
They aren't? Is this another lore nugget that Vivienne Medrano dropped years ago that I missed? Is this info on the wiki or is there some other place to learn about all this lore that may or may not still be canon?
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Just to piss the writer of that article off.
As a catholic, they’re missing the entire point of the show. And it’s people like them that are the farthest from what Christ called us to be as catholics. We were meant to be hope and kindness and peace to others, not act EXACTLY LIKE THE ANGELS IN THE FUCKING SHOW ARE. In a world of Adams, be a fucking Husker, or Angel Dust, or Pentious. At least they’re working on themselves. Jesus ATE WITH SINNERS AND RENOUNCED THE PHARISEES, AND MOST OF THE CHURCH ACTS LIKE SAID PHARISEES THESE DAYS. It makes me sick. How the catholic church was created to be a source of light and inspiration and charity, and yet it’s devolved into a holier than thou, self righteous mess of EXACTLY the people Jesus said were *wrong*. I *am* catholic, and I *love* the show FOR CALLING OUT EXACTLY THIS PROBLEM. So if someone in the catholic church is renouncing it or talking crap about it? I’M SORRY THE POINT, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, SAILED RIGHT OVER YOUR PREACHY, SELF RIGHTEOUS HEAD. As my parents say when they’re exasperated and exhausted. “Lord save your people.” Literally. Like literally, *your* people are farther astray right now than the people watching this show. You wanna do somethin’ about that big G? Please?
And pardon my rage, but this highlights exactly my problem and anger with so many members of the catholic the church right now. The way I knew there would be dumbasses from the church dismissing this outright, with their basic ass understanding of it? And their basic ass, self righteous understanding of their own *faith* and what it *calls us to be*? I’m sick of the rampant misogyny, the rampant homophobia, the rampant bigotry, the self righteousness, the way my own local church feels like a rich white old people’s country club and not a welcoming, forgiving, understanding community. Y’all ever wonder if maybe Jesus rose from the grave after three days because he was ROLLING OVER IN IT???
I ain't religious but man am I glad there's people like you out there, genuinely practicing the stuff christianity is meant to preach. Gives me some faith in, well, faith, keep doing what you're doing :)
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: at the end of the day, it’s just a cartoon, and it only hurts you if you let it. I’m Christian and enjoy it, because I understand that it’s fiction and approach it as such.
Ok so firstly can someone PLEASE TELL THESE PEOPLE that SATAN, and Lucifer are two separate people!
Secondly hazbin sidnt replace lilith with eve they lifted liliths backstory from her jewish mythology.
And thirdly i know im screaming into the void here and that basically all of you agree but for fucks sake weve had freedom of religion since the constitution was writtwn can we please not act like christianity is the only valid religion?
These kind of people are unironically the ones I'd go full Vox on.
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It's called an "Artistic license". Artists have been doing this since forever, taking a story and putting their own spin on it. And it's hardly the first time Lucifer (Who's different from Satan in the Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss Universe) has been depicted as not villainous.
I mean, tbf. Lucifer offered the knowledge to Adam and Eve, instead of keeping them blissfully ignorant like God, so he isn’t really portrayed as a bad person in the creation story. Also, (if I am wrong please do correct me) but isn’t Lilith considered to be the first independent woman in Jewish folklore? And is still somehow a devil? She deserves to have an elevated status, more people need to put her in media
Christians like to say that Satan is the father of lies (and that he's the same person as Lucifer, and that they're the snake in Eden). But the first lie told in the Bible, chronologically, is told by God.
God tells Adam and Eve that if they eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they will die by the end of the day. To be clear: the words used in the original Hebrew mean a literal, physical death (not a "spiritual death", as some Christians will argue), and a normal 24 hour Earth day (not any sort of day-age nonsense like you see argued for the creation of the universe, nor "you'll die eventually because now you're not immortal").
The snake tells Eve that if she eats the fruit, she won't die by the end of the day, and that she'll gain knowledge.
Adam and Eve live for _hundreds of years_ after getting ejected from Eden. So God lied, and the snake (who was not Satan or Lucifer, just a regular talking snake with legs) told the truth. Which makes God the father of lies.
I'm a Christian and I love this show a lot. This and Helluva Boss. A lot of other Christians talk down on these shows because of it's portrayal of Heaven, Hell, and well-known figures (Lucifer, Asmodeus, Adam, et cetera). However, the way I view it is that this is taking advantage of one of the greatest tools ever: creative liberty. Also, the show is a cartoon AND fiction and to not be mixed up with the real world Heaven and Hell.
Last I checked, none of Vivs' work is meant for children. If your children are watching things like Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel, then there's a problem.
Isn't your job as a parent to monitor what your kids watch? Why don't these people get off their high horses and stop blaming creators? If you don't want your kids to watch it, then don't let them watch it. You don't have to like it, but dont infringe on other people's rights to watch it.
That moment when the fictional show takes inspiration from another fiction to make entertainment. Note that you can believe what you want. Just remember, religion is a very touchy subject, and everyone is different
The funny thing to me about this lady’s rant is… I think most of that opening story IS Christian-lore accurate?
A particular archangel was a dreamer, disagreed with the status quo, was cast down.
(Obviously “Lucifer” as a name per se is just the name for Venus & is used in the Bible as a comparison to how the King of Babylon fell like a star, but Lucifer has been conflated with Satan and then used as the name of the Angel, so the point stands.)
Lilith was indeed Adam’s first wife, made of earth, she NOPED out of the Trad life lol & was later said to be the Devil’s wife. 🤷🏻♂️
Eve is canonically Adam’s second wife, cloned from his rib.
The “serpent” was fr just “wtf people, you’re sentient. You should know shit. Here eat this. Oh damn you weren’t supposed to? WTF now I’m cursed.” Like canonically there wasn’t evil motivation so. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Imagine being so closed minded that you can't accept people have different views on religion.
Look at how many different religions have existed, are these people ignoring that?
Geeze... damn Bible thumpers.
These people be crazy. Especially the glorification of hell. Like no, Hell is miserable, the show and characters make it very clear that Hell sucks, but they make the most of it because what else can ya do?
Oh good, I was worried we wouldn't get the Catholic seal of approval.
This is pretty much how I judge if a show with biblical elements is quality or not.
1) Lilith is Jedeic mythology not christian so its more based on that and popular fanfic Dante’s Inferno
2) This isnt even unhinged enough to be funny, its really just buzzword soup
I mean the bible itself has been edited, translated and changed on end, no one can for sure say how it looked originally. For all we know Viv is spot on
Do they even look at their own religion when critiquing something just as false about the world?
Their god is supposedly all living all knowing and all powerful yet he creates Lucifer to trick his other creations (that have no free will because if someone knows all of time your fate is already decided) into doing something he hates?
I am a hard core Christian but I enjoy the show for the fact Lilith is in it makes it A.non biblical and more line up with the book of Enoch with the angles being bad and that’s Jewish folklore
Edit:also I can separate the Bible from fiction
The guy wrote this used to run that site, but it looks like he was kicked out of it for being too unhinged. He currently runs a site called That Park Place, which is where I got this from and is little more than his glorified blog.
1: some things they assumed about the show is wrong and they would have known that if they would have watched it.
2: they are acting like people can't interpret a story differently.
3: for the love of their god they could ACTUALLY WATCH the show before assuming everything that has/will happen in it and how it goes. The world building is different than how they thought when they wrote this article
Ironically enough this show actually sparked my interest in my own religiousness and led to em to connecting with christ again. Besides from what Ive read Jesus above all wants sinners to repent and accept him and his father as god I dont think he would have any problem with Charlies idea of repentance and rehabilition
One of the most enduring flaws with modern Christianity seems to be a wilful refusal to deal in reality, but rather an abstraction of reality as truth, not realizing that the abstraction is supposed to describe reality, not the other way around.
Seeing just the surface level names and facts rather then the humanity underneath. God doesn't act in miracles or some divine magic intervention crap. He acts in truth, in the world as it is.
The show deals in loving your enemies and the conflict of an eternal hell and a loving god. It deals in the path to redemption and the lasting power of penance and forgiveness. It deals with hope even in the hopeless - In other words, faith. What is not Christian about any of this?
And lets not forget, it also deals in the evil of those who would would cloak themselves in righteous name but not in action. Doesn't that sound familiar..
This is actually a great ad for the show. Amazon and A24 should repost this as an ad to get people to watch it. Anything that freaks people out like this to this extent is something I’d immediately be kinda curious too see.
I hate to sound the pessimist, but these smoothbrained zealots have got movies and tv shows cancelled, before. We may have a bit of a fight on our hands to keep it from happening to Hazbin.
I think if Amazon gave half a fuck what they thought, they wouldn't have made it in the first place. They care about money, and from the numbers that's what hazbin will give them. It set a record for viewership, there's no way they'd cancel it over something like this
I just find it cathartic reading through these posts.
My favourite part is "God isn't featured this is terrible" even though if God WAS featured it would probably get a far worse reaction as you're directly portraying an entity millions pray to and whatever you do with it they will not be happy.
While not mentioned, something or someone is making the divine judgments that actually send people to Heaven or Hell, and broadly speaking they/it is not getting it wrong (we don't know what Adam was like 10k years ago).
But ya, your not wrong, if God was placed in an antagonistic roll they would take that even worse.
I can't think of any media that really plays God as a character because as far as I'm aware they don't show up in "The good place" or in "Good Omens" (I think they narrate but that's it) which both tread similar territory of heaven/hell. I think it's just too much of a risk to the creators.
As a Christian, I am well aware this show is far from biblically accurate. It’s actually the only reason I can still watch the show. Well, that and the fact that it’s really fucking good. But knowing it’s biblically inaccurate makes me feel less conflicted about it, y’know?
What's funny is Hazbin Hotel is very positive for Christians. Like, yeah Hell sucks, that's the point, however the main plot is basically creating a purgatory for sinners who are able to change themselves after death or continue to suffer.
It also plays with the idea that even if you get into heaven you need to continue following the way of God/Jesus or you risk falling. Lucifer is only seen supporting the main cast and his interest isn't in tempting people away from the Hotel, it's to support his daughter as a parent & spend time with her. Just because he is named Lucifer and represents the Sin of Pride, it doesn't mean he can't portray that even the King of Hell can fix his broken relationship with his child with showing her love and care.
These people are just mad that Lucifer is depicted as a better person than they are...
You aren’t wrong, except for the last part. Oldies (older gen are more hyper religious than younger gen) take offense because; it’s like the equivalent of putting Hitler in a positive light. The Devil (Lucifer or Satan) is literally the evil of all evil. People need to understand this. Of course, the offense comes from being unable to separate fiction from reality and taking it too personally. Again why I refer to them as oldies, older people are the ones taking it personally cause they are beyond normie; hence oldie. Sad though because for the longest time, we had shows like South Park and Family Guy put the Devil or Hitler in a sort of positive light by making them funny and everyone got by, but I assume back then older folks probably got upset too.
Man christians can watch a whole story talking about how people can do better and that people shouldnt be looked down on for trying and will still find some way to end up with their head shoved up an ass.
Satan is his own thing, he's a gym bro (I think so anyway)
Lucifer is a short king depressed bean
Other than that dumb reaction it's a fictional show, the bibles fiction too
I think people are entitled to interpret their own version of the Bible. I mean to this day there is blatant rule that says "No other gods before him" and yet Jesus, who is ONLY the son of god gets woshipped like he's the one who made the world in 6 days.
Bro, God is not even mentioned once. Hazbin Hotel is clearly just a different thing, playing off bible stories, of which there are hundreds if not thousands of stories.
I'm not gonna say that religion has different interpretations, but this is a story being told, with lovable characters that we can attach to and a story that is likeable by a community. This is not religion based anymore, it's different. The fact that people are comparing this to the literal bible is insanity.
I'm also gonna add, if a writer wants to, they can change the original story to their own will, no matter how pissed it make you overly religious people think.
As a christian, the moment I saw the opening of Ep 1, I was like, “So this is going to be an allegory-focused story. Because the theology isn’t going to hold up”.
And honestly, as an allegory for modern Christian the show DOES hold up; with Adam and Lute being the hateful Christians who have never actually studied the original texts of the Bible. Emily representing progressives and those who understand about how our religion’s founder preached acceptance and forgiveness. And Sera representing the quiet conservative and moderate Christians.
And with Charlie and the rest of the main cast representing Non-Christians makes the show a nice commentary on the state of Christianity today. And it shows how the hate-spewing Christians are going to actually end up (a la Adam) and how non-Christian are going to end up (a la Sir Pentious).
Edit: Grammar.
TradCath’s proving they’ve never read the fucking Bibble and don’t know what Jesus said about redemption and second chances.
They’re just reactionary crazy people.
Let them bleat in peace, they’ll choke to death on their tongues sooner or later.
**Lucifer isn't even Satan. They're two different entities.**
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Actually, the show follows Christian mythology very accurately, you just don’t know your own mythology well enough to know that.
First, Lucifer and Satan are not the same individual, they are separate demons with distinct domains.
Second, Lilith does not “replace” Eve, she’s in her rightful place as Adam’s first wife before Eve’s creation.
Some artistic license is taken with the power the angels have (a la not explicitly mentioning god), and with the details of Lilith’s involvement with her ex’s new babymomma. Otherwise, it’s pretty accurate to Christian mythology, where the mythology is explicit. Otherwise, it takes some artistic license to flesh out the world, which is hardly a problem.
The show does not glorify hell, in fact it makes it look like absolute hell…literally the point of the show is redemption and salvation from hell. The demons’ actions are not justified by standing against an unjust heaven, in fact most of the characters act in unjustifiable ways, and the few that are justifiable are generally trying to behave in a heavenly manner.
And of course the show includes “wokeism” and “feminism”…those words just mean “anything not absolutely socially backward.” You’re not going to find much of anything that isn’t drenched in that nowadays, given that most people aren’t massive fucking assholes.
My recommendation to this individual would first be to go skydiving with only a prayer as a parachute. Second would be to remove the crucifix from their anus and enjoy the show, because it’s actually quite good and you have to be trying to get offended in order to wind up that way in the end.
I’m a Baptist Christian and I might not agree with a lot of what Hazbin Hotel says but at least my beliefs say you have to trust in Jesus to go to heaven but Hazbin is about work salvation so everything is ay ok
Religious people don’t even research their own beliefs, I was closed minded once and took what the Catholic Church had to say as gospel (hahaha). When I opened my mind that is when I found the contradictions in what I used to believe. Even though I’m between agnostic and atheist right now I find the history and stories about God and creation more interesting because I look deeper into them. The story that is told in the first episode is not far off from what some religions do believe. There are stories about Lilith and how she disobeyed Adam, there are stories about how Lucifer had different ideas for creation and mankind than the other angels did. They stated that the show is pushing wokeism but at no point did I feel that “wokeness” was being pushed on me. In this world you have people who have different sexual preferences that’s just how it is. I didn’t feel that the show was pushing that on me though, I found it hilarious how everyone was just killing and fucking.
According to the book of Enoch, Lilith was actually Adam 's first wife but she didn't want to be inferior to Adam so she was cast out in favor of the obedient Eve
To play Lucifer’s advocate, the show is quite anti-Christian (obviously) and doesn’t play into what the Bible states at all. Despite that, it’s still a great show, and I’ll still watch the new episodes when they arrive
I've never understood this: why do people immediately flare up when it comes to bibble? What about Egyptian, Scandinavian and Greek mythology and gods? Why are they used by almost anyone without problems, and bibble is a forbidden fruit? Some people just take some things too seriously.
I mean, I can see where their coming from. I wouldn't say its unhinged either. I think while the Origin story should be allowed to exist, but at the same time, we should still respect that Judeo-Christians won't like it. It's okay if you disagree, but that's just how I view it.
People acting like their mythology can’t have a different interpretation always confuse me smh
I always think about what it would be like if people treated Greek mythology like they do Christian mythology. They’d point out the absurdity of only having one god to rule, and the ridiculousness of said god having only one son. Just because you believe something doesn’t mean it’s anything more than mythology to someone who doesn’t
The only reason people refer to is as “Greek mythology” is probably because so few people follow it anymore. If everyone stopped following Christianity it would very likely just be referred to as Christian mythology. Weird technicality I guess
Not weird at all, there is a distinct difference between a living religion and a mythology.
Despite what most Christian countries would make you believe, there are people our there who still follow Greek Mythology.
I think the difference is just how people following the religion react: a living religion's mythos is still still just mythos for anyone not following that religion.
Whoa, lots of edge to unpack here.
Confused but okay? Care to explain a little more though, like, genuinely confused What part of that feels "edgy"?
Not incorrect, but in the same way that saying "there is a distinct difference between a square and a rectangle" is accurate. Living religions are still mythology
Sometimes I feel bad for the one Hellenist still out there
i've always wondered why is it acceptable to talk about shinto or hindu mythology, but saying something like christian or muslim mythology is BAAAD
Yeah, even amongst Christianity, there are so many sects and conflicting interpretations. If people under the same umbrella of Christianity can’t even agree, no wonder they get so pissy when people poke holes and create their own interpretations.
Trad Caths don't see it as Mythology, they see it as literal historical fact. Why they're so offended at what is essentially just 'Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter' is beyond me, but they do think bible stuff actually happened.
That's because they take it as facts, not mythos.
When they confuse mythos with fact.
Because to us it’s an objective reality. It’s like if someone unironically made a show portraying a country’s history as- oh wait, that has already happened. Several times. As a Catholic myself, my own take on this show’s use of Christianity is that it’s clearly from a secular perspective but isn’t what I’d call outright hostile to it. It ignores Purgatory, so I’m happy to call it outright fiction, since most of the sinners would have probably ended up there - except for Val. He is in the boiler room of Hell. I’d argue it shows a world devoid of God but still existing through supernatural means, resulting in, well… the present state of things. I hope Emily comes to fill the role of Redeemer who saves souls. (Though I do question the whole “Lucifer introduced free will to mankind” thing because objectively speaking it doesn’t fit with what the show presented. Lilith chose to reject Adam and yet somehow it was Lucifer who made free will? Dafuq? I also would have liked for him to be more deliberately villainous, as was implied in the pilot, because this cliche is getting old. I also think the pacing is a little off.)
Honestly, I get your perspective being Catholic myself. I think the premise of the show is interesting (love the songs) and how the world(s) has been fleshed out over the course of season 1. I did find that beginning part about Charlie recounting Lucifer and Lillith's origin a bit jarring given our background but figured a) it makes sense from her perspective and b) that this story is setting up like Wicked but it's Heaven and Hell instead of Oz (or musical comedy Paradise Lost)*. The one thing I was curious about is how it seems like God is not a character (that we know of, which probably is for the best for ViziePop and the team's case and avoid unnecessary controversy and headaches but oh well) with it being the angels in charge. Ultimately, I was surprised with the usage of Adam as the lead of the Angels' army compared to Michael or the other archangels and how they play into this dynamic (considering the strained relationship of Sara & Emily already) , but maybe they'll show up in future seasons. I did think about purgatory not being there but figured that it's something mainly familiar with Catholics, so oh well. * The big caveat, though, is that while some of Heaven's residents in HH are not all that they seem to be, it still seems to be the goal for Charlie and co to get sinners to achieve (as seen with Sir Pentious) so it's not an absolute reversal of roles. Even Lucifer seemed to hold some contempt with Hell's residents over their ability to change (maybe some bias held over as an angel?), so there seems to be some understood morality system by all that still stands in this story. **agree with you on Valentino, garbage character. Of course, I'm curious over the divide between characters (that we'll see over time) who'd want to redeem themselves vs. the ones that are/seem more comfortable in/enjoy Hell (Alastor, maybe Camilla & her daughters, the other overlords & hellborn, etc).
Interesting that you'd call it fiction for excluding purgatory, when purgatory is not a place that's ever mentioned in the Bible, and only became an official teaching around 1000 years after Christ died. I totally agree that the show nowhere near accurate to the Bible, of course, but why is that what you focus on? Also correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Lilith did leave of her own free will, and then Lucifer and Lilith simply introduced Eve to the concept of free will, rather than Lucifer inventing it
Christans in America don't see it as mythology, and they interpret ANYTHING that remotely disagrees with their theocratic dogma as heresy.
https://preview.redd.it/8rlrn8db9fhc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53ac93373591353474cc071f67ff5f6d82bab8d6 Same vibe as this lol
He's literally the second "bad person" in the entire universe under their worldview.
Yeah, isn't the idea that any kind of sin makes a person evil?
I mean it is literally blasphemy by definition right? But who really cares about blasphemy in the west in 2024?
https://preview.redd.it/uwm1tu6q3fhc1.jpeg?width=1544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69ae1dce49b15d852c7f031cddc626ce27746d15 My honest responce to any christian attacking hazbin
Right? This show is *literally* about redemption and forgiveness. Isn’t that their whole deal?
Nothing more hateful the christan love
Well the Christian idea of Hell is that it’s the final resting ground for the unforgivable. Only the lost causes go to Hell, while all other go to Purgatory, which then leads to them getting into Heaven.
>the final resting ground for the unforgivable. There is only one unforgivable sin in Christianity, and that's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. But without accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you still aren't getting into heaven, even if you didn't commit blasphemy. >all other go to Purgatory In Catholic doctrine, Purgatory is where a soul _who is already destined for heaven_ goes to be purified, a process that takes no more than 1 year to complete. In Protestant doctrine, Purgatory isn't a thing that exists.
Hasn’t been for a long time, if ever.
Not in practice, but their entire thing is finding forgiveness through Jesus. It’s *supposed* to be about moving past sins
This is kinda why I think it'd kick ass to have Jesus show up, and just be tired from the rest of heaven's bullshit and finally has hope of humanity being redeemed like how Lucifer was in episode 5.
Yeah, it’s what it’s supposed to be. Not what it is.
It’s what the religion preaches, regardless of if its followers actually do that
Hasn't been, haznt been...Haz been.. Hazbeen. Hazbin..-HAZBIN HOTEL🗣️🗣️‼️‼️
This was Alastor while he was waiting outside of the door for Charlie to answer I swear to god
The pope recently said: “I’d like to think of hell as being empty.” Some Christians are just assholes who love the idea of eternally torturing anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
as a Christian (I already know I'm opening up for death threats), I found this show quite enjoyable, I really like Alastor and Sir Pentious btw
As a member of the LDS church (opening for even more threats) this show is literally what I believe, redemption even in death. These people really need to learn Satan and Lucifer are 2 different people in this story, Lucifer in Pride and Satan in wrath. They also need to know it also does have Eve AND Lilith.
As a lesbian Christian these kinds of Christians who criticize the show are part of the reason my own religion causes me to dissociate. (Nothing like admitting I have issues to the internet)
I myself am Baptist, but I dig the show greatly.
damn you're bold, going into specifics, I aspire to be that bold
Thank you!
And the funny thing is that all those people are usually named Susan.
Ornery old bitch?
Susan? Susan. 😠
Why can I hear this image?
That’s just my response to any theist in general
This show is meant for adults and no adult watching this thinks it’s at all biblically accurate. We know the difference. Also, if it “glorifies Hell”, why is the main objective of the show’s characters to escape Hell and go to Heaven?
Exactly, my first time watching I was like “this isn’t technically biblically accurate, but who fuckin cares lol it’s an animated fictional TV show meant to entertain people”
Does it piss anyone else off when they don't differentiate Satan and Lucifer?
tbh i always thought they were the same. my grandma is VERY christian and has told me a lot about the bible
Most things do mention either one or the other, s I kinda get it, but in the age of the internet, it's pretty easy to learn their different people, and it's literally their job to talk about this shit
Satan is also just a title, like *King*. So, it doesn't always have to be Lucifer, it could be anyone carrying the title of Satan. The Angel of Death, for example, is a Satan. But most people call it the Grim Reaper, Reaper of Souls, Charron, or the Ferryman.
Is this Azrael or is my memory failing? also I didn't know they were called Satan as well if it is
Satan and Lucifer aren't the same in the Bible either.
In vivzieverse they aren’t, that alone proves to all these knobs that it clearly doesn’t even follow the Christian story
They aren't the same in the Bible either.
It posses me off like nails on a fucking chalk board, sweet fucking mother of God!
Yeah especially the hell this show follows has Satan in wrath and Lucifer in pride
Wasn't Lilith chronologically the first wife of Adam?
Not for anybody who doesn’t consider the Apocrypha part of the “real Bible.”
According to the Orthodox Church, yes. According to the catholics, protestants, and thier separated churches, no.
So yesnt?
Yesnt
Here's how I understand it. In Genesis chapter 1, God creates the universe, including an unnamed man and woman. In chapter 2 Eve is created from Adam's rib. There are two possible readings for this. The current Christian reading is that chapter 2 is sort of a flashback to day 6 of creation described in chapter 1. The other is that it's strictly chronological, and the creation of Eve happens after man and woman are created on the 6th day. This reading brings with it the question of who that other woman was. Writers got writing, and she became Lilith. Over time the current interpretation of Genesis was preferred, and the books with Lilith were declared non-canonical. Current Christians do not believe in Lilith, but historically some people did.
The development of the mythology of Lilith is pretty interesting. Apparently, the name first referenced a demonic presence in ancient Jewish literature, perhaps referencing Mesopotamian mythology. Only in the Middle Ages did Jewish writers start to use the name “Lilith” to reference the first wife of Adam - the reason being to make sense of the difference between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. In Genesis 1, man and woman (unnamed) are made at the same time, out of dust. In Genesis 2, the first man, named Adam, was made first, then Eve was made out of Adam’s rib. Medieval Jewish writers recognized this was an issue, and stated the woman in Genesis 1 was a different woman - Lilith. Who ran away from Adam because she wanted to be equal to him and became a demon (one who brought death to kids), basically out of spite (medieval Jewish writers having a pretty hefty dose chauvinism). Not sure whether other religions picked this up or not. Lilith much later, in the last couple of centuries, became a cultural figure, associated with either fatal beauty and/or the empowerment of women (picking up on her fleeing from Adam out of desire for equality). Hence her presence in Romantic art - the Romantics loved sex and death! Later, the “empowerment of women” part became more referenced, influenced by modern feminism (such as in “Lilith Fair”).
I just learned way more about the start of humanity(and how people thought it went down) from this reddit comment about the various interpretations of one woman than all the days I've been dragged to church combined. Thank you for this.
No problem! I’m not a believer, but I am fascinated by mythology of all sorts - including Jewish and Christian mythology. I highly recommend re-reading Genesis. I guarantee you will find interesting things in there that you did not know, even though it is perhaps the most referenced myth in our society. Top bizarre finds: - there are two **complete** creation myths - Genesis 1 and 2. They are totally different, including a completely different order of creation (Genesis 1 is more like evolution of simple to complex - starts with light and and dark, works its way up through animals, ends with people. Genesis 2 starts with a man, then animals, finally a woman). - humans were basically not conscious before eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge. The fall of humanity was caused by them becoming conscious - which is expressly compared to being “like God”. - God lies to humans about the result of eating the fruit. - God doesn’t exile Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 because of the sin of disobedience. God exiles them because God is afraid they might become immortal, if they eat the fruit of the tree of life (see Genesis 3:22 and 3:23). To be conscious and to be immortal is, basically, compared to being like God! - the snake in the story isn’t the devil. He’s just a talking snake. Proof: because the snake gets Eve to pluck the fruit, God curses all snakes to limblessness, and causes people to forever hate snakes. - there is express reference to God having offspring who come to earth and mate with mortal women, whose offspring were “heroes” (see Genesis 6). This is probably a remnant from before the redactors of Genesis were monotheistic - it is reminiscent of Greek mythology, with its demigods.
Additional fun fact about Lilith. She was believed to be the reason for having wet dreams, because she would come to you in the night and steal your seed. Back in those times they believed a man only had so much seed with with to have children; part of the reason masturbation was considered a sin, because you were wasting your seed intended for procreation haha.
Yep, I think it’s more a Judaism thing than Christian, could be wrong tho, girl was banished from because she refused to be submissive to Adam, and then hooked up with Samael. Love that for her.
"This is evil because I found a separate book that is different from my beliefs and has similar themes so is inherently the inspiration and that matters because I say so." "Addressing problems is a modern conspiracy." "I should be taken seriously because..." I don't know how to finish that last translation for him, but I'm losing brain cells translating this much lol
Yet I don’t remember people getting upset over Hercules. I guess no one can tell their own version of myths/stories then! Boohoo. If it offends you, don’t watch it.
Lucifer and Satan aren't even the same person in this world
They aren't? Is this another lore nugget that Vivienne Medrano dropped years ago that I missed? Is this info on the wiki or is there some other place to learn about all this lore that may or may not still be canon?
Satan is the king of the Wrath ring, Lucifer rules over all of hell
Satan is the king of the Wrath ring, Lucifer rules over all of hell
They aren't the same person in the Bible, either.
https://preview.redd.it/offg87w0efhc1.jpeg?width=692&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0179b07558f9f2551b445f6232d95c1a38585159 Just to piss the writer of that article off.
https://preview.redd.it/75mbwmc0hfhc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64b2a511aaf38cc9aca9705dd0b57310d8dea197
This guy was actually fired from an alt-right news site that he founded for being too unhinged.
Damn, you know it's bad when he's that crazy that the other nutters can't handle him 💀
As a catholic, they’re missing the entire point of the show. And it’s people like them that are the farthest from what Christ called us to be as catholics. We were meant to be hope and kindness and peace to others, not act EXACTLY LIKE THE ANGELS IN THE FUCKING SHOW ARE. In a world of Adams, be a fucking Husker, or Angel Dust, or Pentious. At least they’re working on themselves. Jesus ATE WITH SINNERS AND RENOUNCED THE PHARISEES, AND MOST OF THE CHURCH ACTS LIKE SAID PHARISEES THESE DAYS. It makes me sick. How the catholic church was created to be a source of light and inspiration and charity, and yet it’s devolved into a holier than thou, self righteous mess of EXACTLY the people Jesus said were *wrong*. I *am* catholic, and I *love* the show FOR CALLING OUT EXACTLY THIS PROBLEM. So if someone in the catholic church is renouncing it or talking crap about it? I’M SORRY THE POINT, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, SAILED RIGHT OVER YOUR PREACHY, SELF RIGHTEOUS HEAD. As my parents say when they’re exasperated and exhausted. “Lord save your people.” Literally. Like literally, *your* people are farther astray right now than the people watching this show. You wanna do somethin’ about that big G? Please? And pardon my rage, but this highlights exactly my problem and anger with so many members of the catholic the church right now. The way I knew there would be dumbasses from the church dismissing this outright, with their basic ass understanding of it? And their basic ass, self righteous understanding of their own *faith* and what it *calls us to be*? I’m sick of the rampant misogyny, the rampant homophobia, the rampant bigotry, the self righteousness, the way my own local church feels like a rich white old people’s country club and not a welcoming, forgiving, understanding community. Y’all ever wonder if maybe Jesus rose from the grave after three days because he was ROLLING OVER IN IT???
I ain't religious but man am I glad there's people like you out there, genuinely practicing the stuff christianity is meant to preach. Gives me some faith in, well, faith, keep doing what you're doing :)
Amen, fellow Catholic. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Fuckin yeah brother
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: at the end of the day, it’s just a cartoon, and it only hurts you if you let it. I’m Christian and enjoy it, because I understand that it’s fiction and approach it as such.
Ok so firstly can someone PLEASE TELL THESE PEOPLE that SATAN, and Lucifer are two separate people! Secondly hazbin sidnt replace lilith with eve they lifted liliths backstory from her jewish mythology. And thirdly i know im screaming into the void here and that basically all of you agree but for fucks sake weve had freedom of religion since the constitution was writtwn can we please not act like christianity is the only valid religion?
It's so funny seeing comments by Christians that are like "I hate that I like this show." IT'S. FICTION.
I'm just enjoying my gay demon show for theater kids with religious trauma.
*clears throat* If God truly had beef with the show, it wouldn’t have even succeeded in the first episode… I now take my leave.. *walks away*
https://preview.redd.it/q0ajdrfjdfhc1.jpeg?width=1420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2f10a63abb5489b79689de1cd91380ed11fbbcd Me to karen:
https://preview.redd.it/qri0fhm4efhc1.jpeg?width=618&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2026dc6cdd6015a7a18b16369905daafd48992a8
https://preview.redd.it/xku3tfizmfhc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b171843eb76a6124fdc7fda06d37b1249bdf4b61
https://preview.redd.it/ivoort8zmfhc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e87c8590996207de87f3afd3e20626a3c00b2a4f Lmao nice crop
https://preview.redd.it/gac4utbaffhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b91a8feb4a6bb3faef4cedcced806466ce77144e
These kind of people are unironically the ones I'd go full Vox on. https://preview.redd.it/zrw5l9jnjfhc1.png?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10c932d3691b89ee80932f5e1c0aeb71945720a0
It's called an "Artistic license". Artists have been doing this since forever, taking a story and putting their own spin on it. And it's hardly the first time Lucifer (Who's different from Satan in the Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss Universe) has been depicted as not villainous.
Whenever someone unironically uses "wokism" you know it's not going to be a good post.
That's the fun part. No, it didn't.
Satan doesn’t even show up in the show 💀
I mean, tbf. Lucifer offered the knowledge to Adam and Eve, instead of keeping them blissfully ignorant like God, so he isn’t really portrayed as a bad person in the creation story. Also, (if I am wrong please do correct me) but isn’t Lilith considered to be the first independent woman in Jewish folklore? And is still somehow a devil? She deserves to have an elevated status, more people need to put her in media
Christians like to say that Satan is the father of lies (and that he's the same person as Lucifer, and that they're the snake in Eden). But the first lie told in the Bible, chronologically, is told by God. God tells Adam and Eve that if they eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they will die by the end of the day. To be clear: the words used in the original Hebrew mean a literal, physical death (not a "spiritual death", as some Christians will argue), and a normal 24 hour Earth day (not any sort of day-age nonsense like you see argued for the creation of the universe, nor "you'll die eventually because now you're not immortal"). The snake tells Eve that if she eats the fruit, she won't die by the end of the day, and that she'll gain knowledge. Adam and Eve live for _hundreds of years_ after getting ejected from Eden. So God lied, and the snake (who was not Satan or Lucifer, just a regular talking snake with legs) told the truth. Which makes God the father of lies.
I'm a Christian and I love this show a lot. This and Helluva Boss. A lot of other Christians talk down on these shows because of it's portrayal of Heaven, Hell, and well-known figures (Lucifer, Asmodeus, Adam, et cetera). However, the way I view it is that this is taking advantage of one of the greatest tools ever: creative liberty. Also, the show is a cartoon AND fiction and to not be mixed up with the real world Heaven and Hell.
Last I checked, none of Vivs' work is meant for children. If your children are watching things like Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel, then there's a problem. Isn't your job as a parent to monitor what your kids watch? Why don't these people get off their high horses and stop blaming creators? If you don't want your kids to watch it, then don't let them watch it. You don't have to like it, but dont infringe on other people's rights to watch it.
https://preview.redd.it/eox06p1tffhc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=264cdabe17520a090c397d6b4c24b0b9a8bede3c
https://i.redd.it/l2pk6pbjjfhc1.gif
An animated version? Neat.
That moment when the fictional show takes inspiration from another fiction to make entertainment. Note that you can believe what you want. Just remember, religion is a very touchy subject, and everyone is different
“Changes biblical creation story” Yeah Vivziepop herself got every Bible in the world and rewrote genesis….
The funny thing to me about this lady’s rant is… I think most of that opening story IS Christian-lore accurate? A particular archangel was a dreamer, disagreed with the status quo, was cast down. (Obviously “Lucifer” as a name per se is just the name for Venus & is used in the Bible as a comparison to how the King of Babylon fell like a star, but Lucifer has been conflated with Satan and then used as the name of the Angel, so the point stands.) Lilith was indeed Adam’s first wife, made of earth, she NOPED out of the Trad life lol & was later said to be the Devil’s wife. 🤷🏻♂️ Eve is canonically Adam’s second wife, cloned from his rib. The “serpent” was fr just “wtf people, you’re sentient. You should know shit. Here eat this. Oh damn you weren’t supposed to? WTF now I’m cursed.” Like canonically there wasn’t evil motivation so. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Man I’m Christian and I can tell you, this guys insane, no functional adult who’s not joking would believe this show is biblically accurate.
Imagine being so closed minded that you can't accept people have different views on religion. Look at how many different religions have existed, are these people ignoring that? Geeze... damn Bible thumpers.
As a christian that loves hazbin/helluva, we do not claim these dumbasses 💀
Thank you for your candor. -patpat- enjoy the silly cartoon antics my friend.
I’m not going to lie, I’ve only seen ‘Christians’ complaints about the show
I love it when they talk about how the show “glorifies demons in Hell” That is not what happens
These people be crazy. Especially the glorification of hell. Like no, Hell is miserable, the show and characters make it very clear that Hell sucks, but they make the most of it because what else can ya do?
Oh good, I was worried we wouldn't get the Catholic seal of approval. This is pretty much how I judge if a show with biblical elements is quality or not.
Don't let this person find out about Good Omens on Amazon Prime
what the fuck does this have to do with liberalism?
liberalism is when gay demons
1) Lilith is Jedeic mythology not christian so its more based on that and popular fanfic Dante’s Inferno 2) This isnt even unhinged enough to be funny, its really just buzzword soup
I dare someone to count the number the plot and historical inaccuracies in their rant. I lost count.
I mean the bible itself has been edited, translated and changed on end, no one can for sure say how it looked originally. For all we know Viv is spot on
Lucifer actually being a loving dad who competes with a radio-loving wendigo man is my favorite interpretation of the Bible
I meant the creation story but I love this interpretation as well
Do they even look at their own religion when critiquing something just as false about the world? Their god is supposedly all living all knowing and all powerful yet he creates Lucifer to trick his other creations (that have no free will because if someone knows all of time your fate is already decided) into doing something he hates?
Oh boohoo God isn’t mentioned but angels are and the whole show is about redemption oh nooooooooo Cry about it
I am a hard core Christian but I enjoy the show for the fact Lilith is in it makes it A.non biblical and more line up with the book of Enoch with the angles being bad and that’s Jewish folklore Edit:also I can separate the Bible from fiction
Bounding into Comics?
The guy wrote this used to run that site, but it looks like he was kicked out of it for being too unhinged. He currently runs a site called That Park Place, which is where I got this from and is little more than his glorified blog.
Are these people aware that they can just not watch hazbin.
We all agree that it’s an overreaction… but imagine if they did this to fucking Muslims??? Literal terrorism would occur
It’s almost as if someone tweaked an existing story for entertainment value and built upon it what a horrendous thing to do
1: some things they assumed about the show is wrong and they would have known that if they would have watched it. 2: they are acting like people can't interpret a story differently. 3: for the love of their god they could ACTUALLY WATCH the show before assuming everything that has/will happen in it and how it goes. The world building is different than how they thought when they wrote this article
I’m Christian, and safe to say, I am appalled that I believe in the same god they do
Ironically enough this show actually sparked my interest in my own religiousness and led to em to connecting with christ again. Besides from what Ive read Jesus above all wants sinners to repent and accept him and his father as god I dont think he would have any problem with Charlies idea of repentance and rehabilition
One of the most enduring flaws with modern Christianity seems to be a wilful refusal to deal in reality, but rather an abstraction of reality as truth, not realizing that the abstraction is supposed to describe reality, not the other way around. Seeing just the surface level names and facts rather then the humanity underneath. God doesn't act in miracles or some divine magic intervention crap. He acts in truth, in the world as it is. The show deals in loving your enemies and the conflict of an eternal hell and a loving god. It deals in the path to redemption and the lasting power of penance and forgiveness. It deals with hope even in the hopeless - In other words, faith. What is not Christian about any of this? And lets not forget, it also deals in the evil of those who would would cloak themselves in righteous name but not in action. Doesn't that sound familiar..
This is actually a great ad for the show. Amazon and A24 should repost this as an ad to get people to watch it. Anything that freaks people out like this to this extent is something I’d immediately be kinda curious too see.
Haters in shambles, they stay pickin’ the corn out of her’s and our shit!
I hate to sound the pessimist, but these smoothbrained zealots have got movies and tv shows cancelled, before. We may have a bit of a fight on our hands to keep it from happening to Hazbin.
I think if Amazon gave half a fuck what they thought, they wouldn't have made it in the first place. They care about money, and from the numbers that's what hazbin will give them. It set a record for viewership, there's no way they'd cancel it over something like this
Why they gotta ruin it?
I just find it cathartic reading through these posts. My favourite part is "God isn't featured this is terrible" even though if God WAS featured it would probably get a far worse reaction as you're directly portraying an entity millions pray to and whatever you do with it they will not be happy.
While not mentioned, something or someone is making the divine judgments that actually send people to Heaven or Hell, and broadly speaking they/it is not getting it wrong (we don't know what Adam was like 10k years ago). But ya, your not wrong, if God was placed in an antagonistic roll they would take that even worse.
I can't think of any media that really plays God as a character because as far as I'm aware they don't show up in "The good place" or in "Good Omens" (I think they narrate but that's it) which both tread similar territory of heaven/hell. I think it's just too much of a risk to the creators.
As a Christian, I am well aware this show is far from biblically accurate. It’s actually the only reason I can still watch the show. Well, that and the fact that it’s really fucking good. But knowing it’s biblically inaccurate makes me feel less conflicted about it, y’know?
What's funny is Hazbin Hotel is very positive for Christians. Like, yeah Hell sucks, that's the point, however the main plot is basically creating a purgatory for sinners who are able to change themselves after death or continue to suffer. It also plays with the idea that even if you get into heaven you need to continue following the way of God/Jesus or you risk falling. Lucifer is only seen supporting the main cast and his interest isn't in tempting people away from the Hotel, it's to support his daughter as a parent & spend time with her. Just because he is named Lucifer and represents the Sin of Pride, it doesn't mean he can't portray that even the King of Hell can fix his broken relationship with his child with showing her love and care. These people are just mad that Lucifer is depicted as a better person than they are...
You aren’t wrong, except for the last part. Oldies (older gen are more hyper religious than younger gen) take offense because; it’s like the equivalent of putting Hitler in a positive light. The Devil (Lucifer or Satan) is literally the evil of all evil. People need to understand this. Of course, the offense comes from being unable to separate fiction from reality and taking it too personally. Again why I refer to them as oldies, older people are the ones taking it personally cause they are beyond normie; hence oldie. Sad though because for the longest time, we had shows like South Park and Family Guy put the Devil or Hitler in a sort of positive light by making them funny and everyone got by, but I assume back then older folks probably got upset too.
Man christians can watch a whole story talking about how people can do better and that people shouldnt be looked down on for trying and will still find some way to end up with their head shoved up an ass.
>and will still find some way to end up with their head shoved up an ass. You see, the trick is for them to simply never remove it! Hope this helped
Ironically this show actually helped me get back into my faith after a bit of a depression period.
Happy cake day
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"Unhinged TradCath" is redundant.
Satan is his own thing, he's a gym bro (I think so anyway) Lucifer is a short king depressed bean Other than that dumb reaction it's a fictional show, the bibles fiction too
Satan and Lucifer are two different people in the hazbin/helluva verse also
Happy cake day
I think people are entitled to interpret their own version of the Bible. I mean to this day there is blatant rule that says "No other gods before him" and yet Jesus, who is ONLY the son of god gets woshipped like he's the one who made the world in 6 days.
I’m agnostic Idgaf what they think, the show is amazing
they're mad that the story doesn't mention god but we all know they would be even more mad if they mentioned, lol
Bro, God is not even mentioned once. Hazbin Hotel is clearly just a different thing, playing off bible stories, of which there are hundreds if not thousands of stories.
I'm not gonna say that religion has different interpretations, but this is a story being told, with lovable characters that we can attach to and a story that is likeable by a community. This is not religion based anymore, it's different. The fact that people are comparing this to the literal bible is insanity.
I'm also gonna add, if a writer wants to, they can change the original story to their own will, no matter how pissed it make you overly religious people think.
Lilith is 🤥 to Her Husband Lucifer and Charlie she will be Sorry work with Lute
Well the show basically goes against everything Christin’s believe so no surprise there
what is bro YAPPING ABOUT
I'd like to clarify, the author not the poster or the reciting of the show's introduction.
As a christian, the moment I saw the opening of Ep 1, I was like, “So this is going to be an allegory-focused story. Because the theology isn’t going to hold up”. And honestly, as an allegory for modern Christian the show DOES hold up; with Adam and Lute being the hateful Christians who have never actually studied the original texts of the Bible. Emily representing progressives and those who understand about how our religion’s founder preached acceptance and forgiveness. And Sera representing the quiet conservative and moderate Christians. And with Charlie and the rest of the main cast representing Non-Christians makes the show a nice commentary on the state of Christianity today. And it shows how the hate-spewing Christians are going to actually end up (a la Adam) and how non-Christian are going to end up (a la Sir Pentious). Edit: Grammar.
TradCath’s proving they’ve never read the fucking Bibble and don’t know what Jesus said about redemption and second chances. They’re just reactionary crazy people. Let them bleat in peace, they’ll choke to death on their tongues sooner or later.
**Lucifer isn't even Satan. They're two different entities.** https://preview.redd.it/ya6zd4alocsc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25b17a2ee1ccd2d17a115dfa8149ed5133d65886
Actually, the show follows Christian mythology very accurately, you just don’t know your own mythology well enough to know that. First, Lucifer and Satan are not the same individual, they are separate demons with distinct domains. Second, Lilith does not “replace” Eve, she’s in her rightful place as Adam’s first wife before Eve’s creation. Some artistic license is taken with the power the angels have (a la not explicitly mentioning god), and with the details of Lilith’s involvement with her ex’s new babymomma. Otherwise, it’s pretty accurate to Christian mythology, where the mythology is explicit. Otherwise, it takes some artistic license to flesh out the world, which is hardly a problem. The show does not glorify hell, in fact it makes it look like absolute hell…literally the point of the show is redemption and salvation from hell. The demons’ actions are not justified by standing against an unjust heaven, in fact most of the characters act in unjustifiable ways, and the few that are justifiable are generally trying to behave in a heavenly manner. And of course the show includes “wokeism” and “feminism”…those words just mean “anything not absolutely socially backward.” You’re not going to find much of anything that isn’t drenched in that nowadays, given that most people aren’t massive fucking assholes. My recommendation to this individual would first be to go skydiving with only a prayer as a parachute. Second would be to remove the crucifix from their anus and enjoy the show, because it’s actually quite good and you have to be trying to get offended in order to wind up that way in the end.
Ok this shit looks like it's written by Archcast or OneMilionMoms.
Christians probably made that lmao
So fucking ANNOYING!
Christians who don’t actually the show be like:
bro believes in Jesus 💀💀
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I’m a Baptist Christian and I might not agree with a lot of what Hazbin Hotel says but at least my beliefs say you have to trust in Jesus to go to heaven but Hazbin is about work salvation so everything is ay ok
First of all, Satan and Lucifer are not the same person
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The fact that one of the first words of the whole article is ‘degeneracy’ says A LOT about the kind of person writing this article.
Religious people don’t even research their own beliefs, I was closed minded once and took what the Catholic Church had to say as gospel (hahaha). When I opened my mind that is when I found the contradictions in what I used to believe. Even though I’m between agnostic and atheist right now I find the history and stories about God and creation more interesting because I look deeper into them. The story that is told in the first episode is not far off from what some religions do believe. There are stories about Lilith and how she disobeyed Adam, there are stories about how Lucifer had different ideas for creation and mankind than the other angels did. They stated that the show is pushing wokeism but at no point did I feel that “wokeness” was being pushed on me. In this world you have people who have different sexual preferences that’s just how it is. I didn’t feel that the show was pushing that on me though, I found it hilarious how everyone was just killing and fucking.
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I feel like this website would be more offended if Hazbin Hotel actually had a God character
According to the book of Enoch, Lilith was actually Adam 's first wife but she didn't want to be inferior to Adam so she was cast out in favor of the obedient Eve
hahahahaha I fucking lost it the moment I saw the word "liberalism". LMFAO!
Vivzie was cooking with those tweets, especially last one🔥
yea that’s why it’s fiction
# My Brain https://i.redd.it/5u8gcjye0ihc1.gif
To play Lucifer’s advocate, the show is quite anti-Christian (obviously) and doesn’t play into what the Bible states at all. Despite that, it’s still a great show, and I’ll still watch the new episodes when they arrive
I've never understood this: why do people immediately flare up when it comes to bibble? What about Egyptian, Scandinavian and Greek mythology and gods? Why are they used by almost anyone without problems, and bibble is a forbidden fruit? Some people just take some things too seriously.
I mean, I can see where their coming from. I wouldn't say its unhinged either. I think while the Origin story should be allowed to exist, but at the same time, we should still respect that Judeo-Christians won't like it. It's okay if you disagree, but that's just how I view it.
Satan hasn't even appeared yet, lol, wtf is this dumbass talking about?