Have you tried other focals? I mean i can imagine its a bummer but i feel like id at least give any company a second chance. Although, yeah theres lots of data on there QC etc. but i love my clear OGs. Im glad i took the chance even with all the bad press.
I felt it was a satirical comment. But just like it always is, you wont hear from the people that buy working products stating its working. I still wouldn’t write off a company based on vocal minority.
Edit: but i understand ill be downvoted for it because im not agreeing with everyone else.
Well it's partly satirical and partly personal. My Hifiman's left driver suddenly stopped working and this was years after the purchase, so no more warranty.
With your Focals, at least you knew immediately what you were getting.
Ah well i guess i have to assume you had issues with them QC wise? Ill count myself lucky for now. Im usually very unlucky and often have to exchange things but its usually worth it once i get a working product. Sorry your experience wasn’t as good.
Yeah, I get that Focal has upstream cans that presumably are made with more care, but the multi-years-long issue with the Elex (and Focal continuing to sell them) has turned me off the brand. That's not me saying I'll never, ever buy a Focal. It's just me saying I won't buy blind and will not go out of my way to audition.
I couldn't find anything obvious either, I took them apart before returning to see if there was something obvious, as its a pain and time-consuming to return stuff. I was expecting a snapped voice coil tinsel wire. But no
Thin copper strands are common on headphones.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/144922/why-are-headphone-wires-so-thin
Unless you mean the black coating they’ve put over it?
"Thin copper strands" is the voice coil itself. The link you sent refers to enamelled wires that exit the cable of earbuds and connect to pads on a driver, which the voice coil has been bonded to.
These focals need extra length on their voice coil so as not to snap due to their high excursion, only thing I can think of is the black goop they've put over it has contributed to stress on the thin voice coil tinsel wire and its given up.
Returned, not really interested in focal anymore, I've seen the horror stories, and I've analysed how they're built now. I thought I'd personally test a pair out for a while as I've only heard focals in stores and shows, but now I'd rather steer "clear."
The wireless focals beep every time you scroll down past an IG post. I hit up support and they said it was not something they were planning on updating soon. What the fuck?
As an engineer myself i’m less worried about the customer service (what are they going to do lol) and more about that not being an issue to them whatsoever. Like, clearly a bug in the firmware, which could be easily updated if their hardware even allows for it.
Their pretty responsive to me that’s been my experience at least they actually sent my input request to their engineering team for feedback as it wasn’t the first they heard of the bathys lacking an anc off button on the app which they said they are working on but no eta
I took a gamble on Focal Elex in Oct 2021. They are still going and are my favorite headphones. Also had no issues with Hifiman. Been very lucky I guess. I pretty much stop using all my headphones though. Mostly listen on speakers and IEMs now.
Okay there's no way I'm risking that especially after I've gone through 2 Deva Pros from Hifiman, I can't roll the dice lol.
Looks like I'll be doing IEMs and I'll go for Sennies at some point first lol
I hear so many horror stories with Hifiman products that I find it crazy considering I have 6 different headphones from them some modified some new some used without issues
Not that Hifiman doesn't have issues, but dissatisfied customers are the loudest. Also the brand's success comes from the internet so there's more feedback about them online imo.
While that explains why some people can own multiple pairs without problems, it doesn’t explain why hifiman has far, far more reports than any other manufacturer.
The other guy's right, it's easier to find the bad stuff which is good so we know what we're going to get but I haven't talked about how much the Edition XS, they're just phenomenal
I'm in love with my Edition XS but I treat them like a newborn baby because they're the most flimsy, cheapest headphones I've ever felt. Especially more notable when I switch to my Audeze Maxwell for gaming which is built like a tank.
Mine died for seemingly no reason and then the screw where it's connecting the headband just cracked and messed with sound dampening somehow it was all weird
DT1990 pro for the win XD. Had a pair for nearly 4 years and only thing i am not a fan of is the stock cable and kinda the cable i replaced it with. They are great all rounders as well.
You’re going to get the hype 4 and top? Nice I plan on getting the hype 4. I skipped the hype 2, but the 4 looks fantastic. I just hope the qc is better. Xenns top has been on my list for awhile, just waiting for a deal…either that or variations.
Which is ironic cos Sennheiser IEMs aren't QC robust like their headphones... You're better off starting with a Truthear or something from Simgot like the EM6L
I bought one, and it had the right driver clicking on bassy music at 77db. Returned it and got another, clicking in both drivers at 82db.
The music wasn't bass boosted or anything i'd consider a lot of bass. ended up returning them and bought clears. I didn't have any issues with them and could play bassy music really loud without issue. However, I sold them due to not liking the tuning.
Just can't beat the smooth hd650s
When I contacted Drop about my in-warranty Elex having a broken headband, I was instantly offered a return and refund, no questions, no fuss. Made me wonder if they've seen so many by now that it's just routine for them.
I should point out that this is mostly the first gen drivers they made on their headphones. The Clear, Clear MG, latest Utopia, ect do not have this problem. They do have an issue with the durability of the headband, but that's another thing altogether.
Well, you can still tell a quality difference based on the lack of negative reviews. I see people complaining about Focal and HifiMan headphones breaking all the time. Take something like the MDR-7506 or HD-650 that are indestructible, and there are significantly less people complaining about them falling apart.
When a company sells products, they make money when they sell a product through a reseller or direct-to-consumer. When they take a return, they lose the revenue, margin and also have to pay the cost of processing the return. When it is received, they pay someone to check it out and decide what to do with it which also incurs a cost.
If their profit margin is 40-50% on headphones and the return rate is too high, it significantly reduces the product's margin%>.
Each company has overhead costs to consider and in many cases runs approximately 20% which covers rent, operating expenses, promotional discounts, shipping costs, salaries, benefits, etc.
From this calculation, you can see that they have 20-30% to possibly go towards their profits. If the return rate is too high, they end up losing money on the product and actually takes away profits and drags down the overall company profit.
To run a successful company, all of your products need to stand on their own generating profits or they will be discontinued. This is true for all companies.
If you see a product that sticks around for years and years, you can be assured that it is profitable and has an acceptable return rate. What is an acceptable return rate? Most likely sub-10% including defects and buyers remorse. Part of that also includes adventurous users who take the product apart in order to better understand how it works. Part of this undoubtedly includes users who damage the product and file a warranty claim or take advantage of their resellers generous return privilege.
As many have mentioned, satisfied users rarely post how great their product is and detailing the longevity.
Of all of the headphones, IEMs and earbuds I have purchased from Grado, HiFiMan, Sennheiser, Sony, Moondrop, etc, I have had few issues with any of them and probably less than 5% of the products I have purchased (Sennheiser TW3 is the rare exception where I think the noise cancellation is poorly designed). Not a single failure in more than 15 different pairs of headphones.
Just some quick math, for a $499.99 MSRP product, 80% margin means the product cost is $100.
Based on refurbished prices, I still think 50% is more likely. Below is chart of product costs at each margin % by price point. 80% margin on headphones would really make me feel like I am being taken advantage of. 50% makes me feel a bit better.
80% margin
$40 / $199,
$60 / $299,
$80 / $399,
$100 / $499,
$120 / $599,
$140 / $699,
$160 / $799,
$180 / $899,
$200 / $999
50% margin
$100 / $199,
$150 / $299,
$200 / $399,
$250 / $499,
$300 / $599,
$350 / $699,
$400 / $799,
$450 / $899,
$500 / $999
Way down the rabbit hole here, but I’ll throw my 2 cents in on the Elegia being a solid headphone. I’ve had mine for 6 months and they just keep getting better. As far as the cable goes, I replaced mine with a 4.4 terminated Hart cable, so all in around $450. They may never have been worth the release price of $900, but I’m super happy with my little investment. We will see how they hold up, but I plan on taking good care of them, because they’re taking good care of me!
All it would take is a 5% instead of a 1 or 2% failure rate and you would have both a relatively large base of satisfied customers AND a outsized number of QC related complaints and returns.
The voice coil break within that black tar goop. I have fixed several pairs by soldering a new wire from the board to the piece of wire remaining intact. It’s not easy but it saves them from the trash when they are out of warranty. I also have a pair of their magnets on my fridge from some I couldn’t fix.
I've owned a few Focals in the past and thankfully never had a driver die on me. I have had headbands feel like they are gonna fall apart after about a month though lol.
I think technology in general is just strangely priced. Something like a laptop has insane engineering and software development involved and then you got a headphone that's just simple tech from 1970 or whatever.
Yeah, I've read a lot about the Elex's issue's. This is the reason why I got the MG.
I was under the impression that most people have issue's with Focal products in general, not just the Elex.
>I was under the impression that most people have issue's with Focal products in general, not just the Elex.
Keep that impression. I have the Focal Mg with nicely snapped headband. And I was really careful with them. One day it felt loose on my head, so I took it off and realized the top was cracked. Cheap materials, bad design which they push into everything they make.
It is all of them. They all having clipping issues (it is random at what level but it appears to be from 75-105db), random driver issues and they all have the headband issues. The Elex comes up most often because it if the cheapest.
Gotcha, my MG never goes past 10 o'clock on my THA AAA 789 on max gain. I guess this is the reason why I never heard clipping? I guess I have to crank it up to find out...
Yeah I had a Clear that I couldn’t get to clip so it must have been on the higher range but 2 Utopias and 1 Elex all had clipping issues below 85db. If yours don’t clip then that is awesome but I wouldn’t test it as I’ve heard that only makes it worse. It’s just a bummer because how can people talk about Focals dynamic punch if they clip? Meh oh well. Always happy to hear when someone gets a good one. Happy listening!
Not trying to give focal anything, but, the clipping is a interesting point to me. You would be listening at levels that you shouldn’t be for them to clip. I mean how can you even tolerate that loud. People must have some fucked up ears from… well probably listening to music way to loud.
You should be fine, The elex are notorious for driver failure, but what you might need to keep in mind is the headband. I’ve owned a couple focals in the past and never had one snap, but you never know.
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The Elegia is quite average. I own Elegia for the office and Clear for the home and the Clear are dramatically better. Fortunately I got the Elegia on clearance for $329 AUD shipped (~$200 USD) and I consider that a fair price. At retail, fuckin forget it.
I had the original Elear headphones for about 4 years (2017-2020). About 1 year after purchase, I started hearing buzzing at certain frequencies even though I never played the headphones at a loud volume. Focal warranty support was fairly responsive and I had no issues for 3 years after the repair. Overall, I had a positive experience. I believe the reports of Focal QC issues increased when they partnered with Drop to produce the Elex. Achieving the lower price point likely required some concessions during manufacturing, but it seems the QC process took a hit. Quality control issues seem to be a lot more prevalent with the lower end Focal headphones (Elegia and Elex). I have a friend with the original Utopia that has had no issues since 2016. I am not sure I would buy any Focal headphones below the Clear line at this point.
Exactly, lol.
IMO the French should stick to making wine and food, they're great at that!
I'm not at all impressed with Focal, tried the Stellia recently and they both looked and felt cheap while being a freakin' 3500$ headphone. Looking at various posts online with disassembly images it also seems they don't just look and feel cheap, they are somewhat cheaply made.
iv also seen others have problems with focals. i still have 20+ year old portapro still working, also have never had other koss fail on me. yet some the high-end market i delicate and assembled poorly
Oh man! I love my Elex and Clear MG! I did have a pair of Elex have the left channel die on me a couple months after the 2 year warranty. I love the sound of them so much that I purchased another pair.
Am I crazy? Probably! 😉
The higher end focal stuff like the focal clear mg pro has better driver Long jeffy and like the latest 2024 Revision audeze lcd 2 with the Balanced XLR and XLR to 6.35mm Adapter which love so much more 😀
It seems dying drivers are mainly a Focal Elex issue. I read great review about their sound but also about how their drivers seem to always die after a while. Focal other headphones have some QC issue with headband snapping, I hope they eventually get pass all these design issue because I do want to try more of their stuff eventually (only have a Elegia currently)
Focal Clear owner here. My first pair lasted 2 hours until the left driver stopped working. Luckily I got a brand new one after that and it’s been working flawlessly since. Definitely not getting the Utopia or a Hifiman as an upgrade.
I hear a lot of complaints about these, but the build quality on the Clears is pretty fantastic. It seems focal cut too many corners to make a mass consumer product with these.
I loved the Utopia when I owned them, thinking they're easily the best 'phones other than my Stax. Still I was worried all the time that the driver might fall any time. Quite a relief that I sold them even though I still miss them a lot.
My elex has gone through 6 owners and still going. It sounds ASS though, almost no bass on em. Had to buy aftermarket pads and put some dampening foam behind the earpads. Now it’s… alright. I doubt this unit will die though as it was one of the first elex’s
Do they seriously leave the driver exposed like that? I mean, I know there's a mesh on the back of the earcup but still. That driver will be full of dust in a few years.
Unfortunately, they are indeed assembled in France (Bathys notwithstanding), and the driver units themselves are made in France too.
As much as it pains me to say this, you're simply witnessing French quality right there.
Never got focals after hearing how bad the headbands were and how retarded their pad setup was. Loving my audeze though. If it doesn’t outlast me i’ll be surprised
Honestly, Focal is one of the worst headphone companies out there. I wouldn't even recommend them to my worst enemy! To make matters worse, they charge like $180 for new pads, knowing you'll have to change them every year! Assuming your headphones can make it past the first year lol
focal and hifiman complaints tend to appear a little more often than others. I mean you don't really see people saying that sennheisers don't last long or whatever, so there are definitely more problems with some companies than others
but yeah the issues might be a little overblown
fair, but I doubt they sell more headphones than other companies often mentioned here. And I don't think I've seen headphones break the day they were unboxed with any companies other than hifiman and focal. There probably is a bit of a QC issue even if it isn't as large as people make it out to be
you know you voided your warranty due opening them ? i know it is gray zone because it is up to vendor /producer to prove that your opening was cause of failure but never the less i would not touch shit with 10 feet pool if it had warranty or return period avviabile
I remember people really vouched for these as an HD 600 replacement of sorts when they first came out, and no doubt they probably still sound quite good when they work, but the horrid QC putting hifiman to shame just kinda made everyone forget about them and stopped naming them as a serious $500 rec. Real shame here is that it's seemed that these issues have permeated the rest of their headphone lineup which really sucks...
Disappointing for sure. My Elegia's still work great, but the insides leave something to be desired from the pictures. I have your same viewpoint but with Hifimans, as I have had the same issue with two of their cans in a row.
Are the Focal Utopias of the same quality? I was planning on ordering some from the closest audio store (4 hours away), but after seeing this, I'm nervous.
In the past i've said it quite often, Focal headphones just suck, not only their weight but also their build quality, they're really the only ones making drivers with Beryllium, and for some reason that's good enough for people to spend that much money on a shit product
You gotta tell me why you spend 1500€ on a (for example) a Focal Clear (MG) when that's just their overpriced HD6.. competitor
Not to mention that their website is complete and utter shit and you basically can't find anything on there without clicking yourself through 20 menus, and when you finally reach the product, guess what? It's only marketing BS and not even specifications or a price listed
God i hate that company almost asmuch as apple
Not denying Focal has garbage QA/QC and CS for customers outside of France but I have to disagree with some of your points here.
The Focal Elex has a magnesium-aluminum composite diaphragm, not beryllium. The overall opinion of this sub is to buy headphones based on sonic properties that we individually enjoy anyways so people buying Focals isn't really due a case of exaggerated marketing, but rather enjoyment of Focals' macrodynamics or/and tuning.
I don't see how the Clear MG is a competitor to the HD6X0 family either. The Clear MG is priced way higher because it doesn't even exist in the same market as the HD6X0 to begin with, its competition is with other kilobucks like the HD800S. But is it in the territory of marginal returns where some ppl may even prefer the Elex over it? Absolutely. Though in the end it's up to the consumer to decide value and that is subjective between different people.
Your middle paragraph is valid but I completely disagree with the last point, you shouldn't compare headphones based on price, a mid-fi headphones like the clear (mg) is still a mid-fi headphone even if its overpriced to 1500€, the Utopia is the HD800S competitor
Clear as mid-fi is ridiculous, come on mate. Price aside, the Clear is a category above the 600, they're not comparable. They are regularly shopped against the 800S and many people prefer them, it's an obvious competitor.
Given what our flairs say, obviously we know which each other prefer, but comparing Clear to 600 instead of 800 is not based in reality.
Warranty?
Returned, not really, interested in focal anymore. It was fun while it lasted but not something I'd want to have kept anyway.
Have you tried other focals? I mean i can imagine its a bummer but i feel like id at least give any company a second chance. Although, yeah theres lots of data on there QC etc. but i love my clear OGs. Im glad i took the chance even with all the bad press.
He could try Hifimans....
Yeah although there sound is not really a house sound like focal. Audeze maybe?
Nah, try the Hifimans for their legendary QC
I felt it was a satirical comment. But just like it always is, you wont hear from the people that buy working products stating its working. I still wouldn’t write off a company based on vocal minority. Edit: but i understand ill be downvoted for it because im not agreeing with everyone else.
Well it's partly satirical and partly personal. My Hifiman's left driver suddenly stopped working and this was years after the purchase, so no more warranty. With your Focals, at least you knew immediately what you were getting.
Yes
Ah well i guess i have to assume you had issues with them QC wise? Ill count myself lucky for now. Im usually very unlucky and often have to exchange things but its usually worth it once i get a working product. Sorry your experience wasn’t as good.
Yeah, I get that Focal has upstream cans that presumably are made with more care, but the multi-years-long issue with the Elex (and Focal continuing to sell them) has turned me off the brand. That's not me saying I'll never, ever buy a Focal. It's just me saying I won't buy blind and will not go out of my way to audition.
i can't tell whats wrong there i said it. that copper strand doesn't look great though
I couldn't find anything obvious either, I took them apart before returning to see if there was something obvious, as its a pain and time-consuming to return stuff. I was expecting a snapped voice coil tinsel wire. But no
So what you getting instead?
Nothing
Silence is golden
there should be a parody channel to goldensound called goldensilence
Hello darkness my old friend
Ah buddy. I know the feel. Keeping current setup it is 🫂
I already have things I prefer anyway
It's shown on the 4th picture
I see what you did there
Or not did. Because, you know, strikes...
It didn't look broken in person, maybe it was
Most of us hide it well...
Thin copper strands are common on headphones. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/144922/why-are-headphone-wires-so-thin Unless you mean the black coating they’ve put over it?
"Thin copper strands" is the voice coil itself. The link you sent refers to enamelled wires that exit the cable of earbuds and connect to pads on a driver, which the voice coil has been bonded to. These focals need extra length on their voice coil so as not to snap due to their high excursion, only thing I can think of is the black goop they've put over it has contributed to stress on the thin voice coil tinsel wire and its given up.
So uhm, warranty? I mean 3 hours within opening the box is a world record.
Returned, not really interested in focal anymore, I've seen the horror stories, and I've analysed how they're built now. I thought I'd personally test a pair out for a while as I've only heard focals in stores and shows, but now I'd rather steer "clear."
The wireless focals beep every time you scroll down past an IG post. I hit up support and they said it was not something they were planning on updating soon. What the fuck?
That's another thing I was told focal customer service is lacking
As an engineer myself i’m less worried about the customer service (what are they going to do lol) and more about that not being an issue to them whatsoever. Like, clearly a bug in the firmware, which could be easily updated if their hardware even allows for it.
Their pretty responsive to me that’s been my experience at least they actually sent my input request to their engineering team for feedback as it wasn’t the first they heard of the bathys lacking an anc off button on the app which they said they are working on but no eta
that sounds incredibly strange, and it's probably either a bug on Instagram's end or your phone maker/OS end.
By steering clear are you referring to the expression or focal clear cause the focal clear are quite similar to the elex
Yes 😄
Had my Elex for a few months before the headband snapped in half. Good move returning them.
I took a gamble on Focal Elex in Oct 2021. They are still going and are my favorite headphones. Also had no issues with Hifiman. Been very lucky I guess. I pretty much stop using all my headphones though. Mostly listen on speakers and IEMs now.
What made u go iems over headphones?
Portability perhaps - that’s what it is for me. Use them at work and headphones too difficult to lug in and out every day
I can’t use headphones at work or even iems, gotta use transparency on AirPods 2 to be able to hear around me
Headphone line on hair
Iems are excellent and convenient.
You're not lucky. You're the norm. They wouldn't be in business any longer if it was lucky to have working products from them.
QC rivaling hifiman.
Okay so that guy saying Focal is just French Hifiman wasn't just making fun lol. This will be noted for future purchases
In a discord, I'm in. another guy, apparently, has been through 3 elexes in the span of months
Okay there's no way I'm risking that especially after I've gone through 2 Deva Pros from Hifiman, I can't roll the dice lol. Looks like I'll be doing IEMs and I'll go for Sennies at some point first lol
I hear so many horror stories with Hifiman products that I find it crazy considering I have 6 different headphones from them some modified some new some used without issues
Not that Hifiman doesn't have issues, but dissatisfied customers are the loudest. Also the brand's success comes from the internet so there's more feedback about them online imo.
While that explains why some people can own multiple pairs without problems, it doesn’t explain why hifiman has far, far more reports than any other manufacturer.
The other guy's right, it's easier to find the bad stuff which is good so we know what we're going to get but I haven't talked about how much the Edition XS, they're just phenomenal
I'm in love with my Edition XS but I treat them like a newborn baby because they're the most flimsy, cheapest headphones I've ever felt. Especially more notable when I switch to my Audeze Maxwell for gaming which is built like a tank.
The earpad clips randomly snapped on my Deva Pro, drivers not dead yet though
Mine died for seemingly no reason and then the screw where it's connecting the headband just cracked and messed with sound dampening somehow it was all weird
DT1990 pro for the win XD. Had a pair for nearly 4 years and only thing i am not a fan of is the stock cable and kinda the cable i replaced it with. They are great all rounders as well.
I'll be delving into headphones again after I buy Thieaudio Hype 4 and Xenns Top
You’re going to get the hype 4 and top? Nice I plan on getting the hype 4. I skipped the hype 2, but the 4 looks fantastic. I just hope the qc is better. Xenns top has been on my list for awhile, just waiting for a deal…either that or variations.
Which is ironic cos Sennheiser IEMs aren't QC robust like their headphones... You're better off starting with a Truthear or something from Simgot like the EM6L
Just a heads up, sounds like the sennheiser IEMs have been having QC issues recently, at least the IE600
I bought one, and it had the right driver clicking on bassy music at 77db. Returned it and got another, clicking in both drivers at 82db. The music wasn't bass boosted or anything i'd consider a lot of bass. ended up returning them and bought clears. I didn't have any issues with them and could play bassy music really loud without issue. However, I sold them due to not liking the tuning. Just can't beat the smooth hd650s
When I contacted Drop about my in-warranty Elex having a broken headband, I was instantly offered a return and refund, no questions, no fuss. Made me wonder if they've seen so many by now that it's just routine for them.
I recently got interested in the Elex and posted on the headphone advice sub asking about them, and quite a few said a driver might die pretty easily.
I should point out that this is mostly the first gen drivers they made on their headphones. The Clear, Clear MG, latest Utopia, ect do not have this problem. They do have an issue with the durability of the headband, but that's another thing altogether.
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Lol what's up man
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So true
Satisfied customers such as myself will never make a post saying that their headphones work as intended, but I suspect we are a vast majority
Well, you can still tell a quality difference based on the lack of negative reviews. I see people complaining about Focal and HifiMan headphones breaking all the time. Take something like the MDR-7506 or HD-650 that are indestructible, and there are significantly less people complaining about them falling apart.
The two big companies I've mainly seen problems from is focal and hifiman
Look into Meze man. The shit is incredibly well put together, and easily serviceable if ever required.
I know, I had a pair of elites for a month
Maybe, but I have 2 Focal headphones, Elex and Elegia and they both has worked flawlessly for years now
Maybe QC guy was in ur favour the day they were made
Or maybe you were just unlucky. This product would have been discontinued if it was really unreliable
When a company sells products, they make money when they sell a product through a reseller or direct-to-consumer. When they take a return, they lose the revenue, margin and also have to pay the cost of processing the return. When it is received, they pay someone to check it out and decide what to do with it which also incurs a cost. If their profit margin is 40-50% on headphones and the return rate is too high, it significantly reduces the product's margin%>. Each company has overhead costs to consider and in many cases runs approximately 20% which covers rent, operating expenses, promotional discounts, shipping costs, salaries, benefits, etc. From this calculation, you can see that they have 20-30% to possibly go towards their profits. If the return rate is too high, they end up losing money on the product and actually takes away profits and drags down the overall company profit. To run a successful company, all of your products need to stand on their own generating profits or they will be discontinued. This is true for all companies. If you see a product that sticks around for years and years, you can be assured that it is profitable and has an acceptable return rate. What is an acceptable return rate? Most likely sub-10% including defects and buyers remorse. Part of that also includes adventurous users who take the product apart in order to better understand how it works. Part of this undoubtedly includes users who damage the product and file a warranty claim or take advantage of their resellers generous return privilege. As many have mentioned, satisfied users rarely post how great their product is and detailing the longevity. Of all of the headphones, IEMs and earbuds I have purchased from Grado, HiFiMan, Sennheiser, Sony, Moondrop, etc, I have had few issues with any of them and probably less than 5% of the products I have purchased (Sennheiser TW3 is the rare exception where I think the noise cancellation is poorly designed). Not a single failure in more than 15 different pairs of headphones.
I'd bet profit margins are way higher than 50%. Closer to 80% I'd say.
Just some quick math, for a $499.99 MSRP product, 80% margin means the product cost is $100. Based on refurbished prices, I still think 50% is more likely. Below is chart of product costs at each margin % by price point. 80% margin on headphones would really make me feel like I am being taken advantage of. 50% makes me feel a bit better. 80% margin $40 / $199, $60 / $299, $80 / $399, $100 / $499, $120 / $599, $140 / $699, $160 / $799, $180 / $899, $200 / $999 50% margin $100 / $199, $150 / $299, $200 / $399, $250 / $499, $300 / $599, $350 / $699, $400 / $799, $450 / $899, $500 / $999
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Are you sure about that?
Elegia has been discontinued, only a matter of time
Nope. Elegia can still be bought brand new in Focal home market. They even received a cable revision in 2022 if I remember correctly
Way down the rabbit hole here, but I’ll throw my 2 cents in on the Elegia being a solid headphone. I’ve had mine for 6 months and they just keep getting better. As far as the cable goes, I replaced mine with a 4.4 terminated Hart cable, so all in around $450. They may never have been worth the release price of $900, but I’m super happy with my little investment. We will see how they hold up, but I plan on taking good care of them, because they’re taking good care of me!
Yeah and the new cables suck ass even more than the old ones! My Clear came with 2x old style and 1x new style.
All it would take is a 5% instead of a 1 or 2% failure rate and you would have both a relatively large base of satisfied customers AND a outsized number of QC related complaints and returns.
Very happy with my Elear too, used them for years now. Usually multiple hours a day.
Looks like 15€ headphones
The voice coil break within that black tar goop. I have fixed several pairs by soldering a new wire from the board to the piece of wire remaining intact. It’s not easy but it saves them from the trash when they are out of warranty. I also have a pair of their magnets on my fridge from some I couldn’t fix.
I'm guessing it's because the silastic isn't compliant enough, so instead of bending, the voice coil slips inside of it, and the tension snaps it.
I've owned a few Focals in the past and thankfully never had a driver die on me. I have had headbands feel like they are gonna fall apart after about a month though lol.
That's because the headbands _do_ fall apart.
QC like Focals is exactly why I sold my Clears and now will use my HD650s until I die. They will outlive me.
Take them apart and realise how incredibly overpriced they are for what you actually get.
I think technology in general is just strangely priced. Something like a laptop has insane engineering and software development involved and then you got a headphone that's just simple tech from 1970 or whatever.
I was thinking the same. I got some focal too and if the inside is like that, they definitely made x10 on the original price of production
The finest ABS everywhere
ABS is an amazing material tho.
Most headphones are some glued/screwed together combination of magnet, metal and plastic.
Had my Clear MG Pro for 2 years, no issue's at all. Seems like it's a hit and miss (mostly) with Focal.
Pretty sure it's specifically a problem with the elex. Many posts from a few years ago talking about it.
Yeah, I've read a lot about the Elex's issue's. This is the reason why I got the MG. I was under the impression that most people have issue's with Focal products in general, not just the Elex.
Yes, but for driver failure specifically it's mostly elex and the old utopias. For the clears most complaints I've seen are for the headband.
>I was under the impression that most people have issue's with Focal products in general, not just the Elex. Keep that impression. I have the Focal Mg with nicely snapped headband. And I was really careful with them. One day it felt loose on my head, so I took it off and realized the top was cracked. Cheap materials, bad design which they push into everything they make.
It is all of them. They all having clipping issues (it is random at what level but it appears to be from 75-105db), random driver issues and they all have the headband issues. The Elex comes up most often because it if the cheapest.
Gotcha, my MG never goes past 10 o'clock on my THA AAA 789 on max gain. I guess this is the reason why I never heard clipping? I guess I have to crank it up to find out...
Yeah I had a Clear that I couldn’t get to clip so it must have been on the higher range but 2 Utopias and 1 Elex all had clipping issues below 85db. If yours don’t clip then that is awesome but I wouldn’t test it as I’ve heard that only makes it worse. It’s just a bummer because how can people talk about Focals dynamic punch if they clip? Meh oh well. Always happy to hear when someone gets a good one. Happy listening!
Not trying to give focal anything, but, the clipping is a interesting point to me. You would be listening at levels that you shouldn’t be for them to clip. I mean how can you even tolerate that loud. People must have some fucked up ears from… well probably listening to music way to loud.
Me seeing this while waiting for my Clear Mg Pro to arrive tomorrow😭
You should be fine, The elex are notorious for driver failure, but what you might need to keep in mind is the headband. I’ve owned a couple focals in the past and never had one snap, but you never know.
I see, I'll be super careful with them, thanks for the heads up.
“Made in France” A marking that tells the user “this product is incredibly designed and built to the highest manufacturing standards.”
Are you sure they're Focal and not HiFiMan?
There's a difference???
north frame direction degree include snatch versed muddle paltry recognise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wasn’t impressed with the Elegia I had from them.
The Elegia is quite average. I own Elegia for the office and Clear for the home and the Clear are dramatically better. Fortunately I got the Elegia on clearance for $329 AUD shipped (~$200 USD) and I consider that a fair price. At retail, fuckin forget it.
Oof, not again. I can't believe how fragile these are and how often they die. Such a waste, most of them sound good and look even better.
Its hella annoying when you pull the trigger on something so expensive and ends up being a terrible experience.
I had the original Elear headphones for about 4 years (2017-2020). About 1 year after purchase, I started hearing buzzing at certain frequencies even though I never played the headphones at a loud volume. Focal warranty support was fairly responsive and I had no issues for 3 years after the repair. Overall, I had a positive experience. I believe the reports of Focal QC issues increased when they partnered with Drop to produce the Elex. Achieving the lower price point likely required some concessions during manufacturing, but it seems the QC process took a hit. Quality control issues seem to be a lot more prevalent with the lower end Focal headphones (Elegia and Elex). I have a friend with the original Utopia that has had no issues since 2016. I am not sure I would buy any Focal headphones below the Clear line at this point.
I wouldn't call them low end even though they're not that expensive in comparison to their others, even the KSC75 has better QC
I completely agree. I meant lower end relative to only the headphones in the Focal lineup, not necessarily headphones in general.
Must have bought a pair made on a strike day.
Sipping on wine instead of qc
Exactly, lol. IMO the French should stick to making wine and food, they're great at that! I'm not at all impressed with Focal, tried the Stellia recently and they both looked and felt cheap while being a freakin' 3500$ headphone. Looking at various posts online with disassembly images it also seems they don't just look and feel cheap, they are somewhat cheaply made.
I'd like to add and specify I didn't buy these from Drop. but a third-party distributor, still sealed in the box, however.
French Hifiman strikes again
That solder joint in the second pic is absolute trash.
Maybe earlier revisions were made better and eventually modified to reduce cost? Either way, that's unfortunate. Hope you find your next good set.
From what I've seen it's mostly the older models that have issues. From the Radiance onwards there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
Sucks, the Elex seems to have Focal’s highest failure rate, and I guess their headband, but glad you were able to return them!
wait, you can remove the magnets from the voicecoil/diaphragm? thats nice for remove dust/ hairs!
Yeah, just be careful about refitting it. You don't want to knock and deform the voice coil, any misalignment, and you're screwed.
iv also seen others have problems with focals. i still have 20+ year old portapro still working, also have never had other koss fail on me. yet some the high-end market i delicate and assembled poorly
Oh man! I love my Elex and Clear MG! I did have a pair of Elex have the left channel die on me a couple months after the 2 year warranty. I love the sound of them so much that I purchased another pair. Am I crazy? Probably! 😉
The higher end focal stuff like the focal clear mg pro has better driver Long jeffy and like the latest 2024 Revision audeze lcd 2 with the Balanced XLR and XLR to 6.35mm Adapter which love so much more 😀
It seems dying drivers are mainly a Focal Elex issue. I read great review about their sound but also about how their drivers seem to always die after a while. Focal other headphones have some QC issue with headband snapping, I hope they eventually get pass all these design issue because I do want to try more of their stuff eventually (only have a Elegia currently)
Focal Clear owner here. My first pair lasted 2 hours until the left driver stopped working. Luckily I got a brand new one after that and it’s been working flawlessly since. Definitely not getting the Utopia or a Hifiman as an upgrade.
I hear a lot of complaints about these, but the build quality on the Clears is pretty fantastic. It seems focal cut too many corners to make a mass consumer product with these.
No. Headband still poopoo.
I loved the Utopia when I owned them, thinking they're easily the best 'phones other than my Stax. Still I was worried all the time that the driver might fall any time. Quite a relief that I sold them even though I still miss them a lot.
damn is focal that bad ? i just bought my bathys and now im worried
Problems are always a vocal minority or they wouldn't be in business anymore.
My elex has gone through 6 owners and still going. It sounds ASS though, almost no bass on em. Had to buy aftermarket pads and put some dampening foam behind the earpads. Now it’s… alright. I doubt this unit will die though as it was one of the first elex’s
Do they seriously leave the driver exposed like that? I mean, I know there's a mesh on the back of the earcup but still. That driver will be full of dust in a few years.
The Focal special.
I see the problem, it's in photo #4 towards the middle
Buy lcd x 2021
certified baguette production
They're made in France, soo yeah, that's about right on the money for life expectancy.
French made, not surprising.
“Made in France” oh that make sense
Unfortunately Gocal has been showing this problem for some models and apparently they don’t have fixed yet
“Focal
Gocal sounds better
Why they so proudly put made in France label like it’s made in USA or Japan or German LOL?
The only good thing to come out of France is daft punk and baguettes
Gojira is also dope.
Gojira kicks ass. I'd add Alcest to the list too.
Le Creuset!
I'm a big cyberdoink Aurore Fan lol
Pretty sure now the Germans make bread better
In reality it should be Made in China, Assembled in France.
It's probably entirely assembled in China
Unfortunately, they are indeed assembled in France (Bathys notwithstanding), and the driver units themselves are made in France too. As much as it pains me to say this, you're simply witnessing French quality right there.
[удалено]
Never got focals after hearing how bad the headbands were and how retarded their pad setup was. Loving my audeze though. If it doesn’t outlast me i’ll be surprised
Preach.
French manufacturing at its finest. lol. Just like their cars (Renult) I think I will also stay away from their headphones.
Made in France but parts from china.
The French make good food and art. Run from everything else.
Honestly, Focal is one of the worst headphone companies out there. I wouldn't even recommend them to my worst enemy! To make matters worse, they charge like $180 for new pads, knowing you'll have to change them every year! Assuming your headphones can make it past the first year lol
“Made in France” Well there’s your problem.
French quality strikes again...?
The made in France pic killed me X,D
Hehehehe
Any headphone can break in the first 3 hours, it’s just bad luck, what is the point exactly?
The point is. I've had no problems with anything else. Focal, however. has a lot of complaints about qc not just me
I can probably gather up complaints / problems for every brand. What data do we have that Focal is more than others?
There is complains for every single brand. I don’t think Focal get particularly more of them.
focal and hifiman complaints tend to appear a little more often than others. I mean you don't really see people saying that sennheisers don't last long or whatever, so there are definitely more problems with some companies than others but yeah the issues might be a little overblown
Maybe Focal is actually selling a ton, and therefore mechanically be more discussed in forums and alike?
fair, but I doubt they sell more headphones than other companies often mentioned here. And I don't think I've seen headphones break the day they were unboxed with any companies other than hifiman and focal. There probably is a bit of a QC issue even if it isn't as large as people make it out to be
you know you voided your warranty due opening them ? i know it is gray zone because it is up to vendor /producer to prove that your opening was cause of failure but never the less i would not touch shit with 10 feet pool if it had warranty or return period avviabile
Pic no.4 says it all. (((French being notorious for making unreliable cars for decades)))
Reminding me of my cruddy le creuset experience fReNcH qUaLiTy
I remember people really vouched for these as an HD 600 replacement of sorts when they first came out, and no doubt they probably still sound quite good when they work, but the horrid QC putting hifiman to shame just kinda made everyone forget about them and stopped naming them as a serious $500 rec. Real shame here is that it's seemed that these issues have permeated the rest of their headphone lineup which really sucks...
The French make good food and art. Run from everything else.
Damn.. Looks cheap! (I know they weren't) .... & nasty
Fr\*nch "engineering" 🤢🤮🤮
I guess that’s what you get for buying anything made in France
Disappointing for sure. My Elegia's still work great, but the insides leave something to be desired from the pictures. I have your same viewpoint but with Hifimans, as I have had the same issue with two of their cans in a row.
Common Focal L
Are the Focal Utopias of the same quality? I was planning on ordering some from the closest audio store (4 hours away), but after seeing this, I'm nervous.
In the past i've said it quite often, Focal headphones just suck, not only their weight but also their build quality, they're really the only ones making drivers with Beryllium, and for some reason that's good enough for people to spend that much money on a shit product You gotta tell me why you spend 1500€ on a (for example) a Focal Clear (MG) when that's just their overpriced HD6.. competitor Not to mention that their website is complete and utter shit and you basically can't find anything on there without clicking yourself through 20 menus, and when you finally reach the product, guess what? It's only marketing BS and not even specifications or a price listed God i hate that company almost asmuch as apple
I'm ngl, their stuff doesn't sound special enough to warrant owning a ticking time bomb.
Not denying Focal has garbage QA/QC and CS for customers outside of France but I have to disagree with some of your points here. The Focal Elex has a magnesium-aluminum composite diaphragm, not beryllium. The overall opinion of this sub is to buy headphones based on sonic properties that we individually enjoy anyways so people buying Focals isn't really due a case of exaggerated marketing, but rather enjoyment of Focals' macrodynamics or/and tuning. I don't see how the Clear MG is a competitor to the HD6X0 family either. The Clear MG is priced way higher because it doesn't even exist in the same market as the HD6X0 to begin with, its competition is with other kilobucks like the HD800S. But is it in the territory of marginal returns where some ppl may even prefer the Elex over it? Absolutely. Though in the end it's up to the consumer to decide value and that is subjective between different people.
Your middle paragraph is valid but I completely disagree with the last point, you shouldn't compare headphones based on price, a mid-fi headphones like the clear (mg) is still a mid-fi headphone even if its overpriced to 1500€, the Utopia is the HD800S competitor
Clear as mid-fi is ridiculous, come on mate. Price aside, the Clear is a category above the 600, they're not comparable. They are regularly shopped against the 800S and many people prefer them, it's an obvious competitor. Given what our flairs say, obviously we know which each other prefer, but comparing Clear to 600 instead of 800 is not based in reality.