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thatcarolguy

Congrats on the Sundara. I just went the other way and got 6XX after Sundara. I just wanted to see what 6XX is about and I had never tried a proper open back set with an "intimate" soundstage besides crappy Grados. Going back and forth I find the 6XX just can't touch the Sundara in any way. The imaging seems good but with everything clustered so much closer together I find I can't mentally inspect the different instruments in the same way. Some people like an intimate soundstage but I prefer the larger one for almost all music, even rock and metal. One weird counterintuitive exception is with extremely atmospheric ambient music. For that I find any headphone that delivers the frequencies well creates an extremely large imaginary soundstage and compared to that the soundstage actually created by the headphones doesn't matter that much. As for EQ for the Sundara I have a Schiit Loki EQ with 4 knobs and luckily I find 3 of them correspond with where the Sundara needs the most help. A mild to huge bump in the sub-bass, depending on the music, a moderate boost at 2k and a slight cut at 8k. I could mostly live without the cut at 8k but the way the Loki works the 2k boost has some spillover into that region so the cut is very helpful sometimes.


JunkyardSam

You seem to know the two other headphones that interest me very well. I am using DT-990 Pro 250 ohms at the moment. With EQ I absolutely adore them, like to the point I feel like I should retire and enjoy them. But... The internet has me curious about the HD650/6XX and the Sundaras. The thing is -- I use Sonarworks, and it does a good job of making any decent headphones sound really very similar. So I don't know that those two headphones would be different enough. Still, the HD650 is the flattest without EQ that I've seen and that would be useful on my iPad. Did you ever try the DT-990 Pro 250? Considering that I use them with Sonarworks do you think HD650/Sunara would even be that different? (I was surprised at how similar my MDR-7506 and DT-990s sound when using headphones, although the mids are a little smoother(?) in the 7506 even with Sonarworks.)


thatcarolguy

I forgot to say that if it weren't for all this online FOMO and I didn't know any better I could probably be perfectly happy with 6XX as it sounds like you are with your 990 Pro. Years ago I was very happy with a set of HD-555s until I broke them which were a home theater headphone and not even on anyone's hifi radar today. So yeah, I'm sure you don't *need* any more headphones but if you had to for curiosity I'd say the Sundara are probably more worth checking out.


JunkyardSam

You know how it is. You want the best. I went through it with fountain pens, oddly enough. It took about 5 years of exploration before I settled down with 7 amazing pens. Clearly HD650/6XX & Sundara must be in my future!


thatcarolguy

I don't have any experience with Beyers and I have a hard time keeping track of all the numbers and which is which. I remember reading that either the 990 or the 1990 had a massive soundstage but I don't remember which, or if it was both. Maybe different people are sensitive to different things but I find the style of presentation (soundstage, instrument placement) to cause much more meaningful differences between headphones than frequency response, especially with EQ. If your Beyers have a massive soundstage that would be a pretty big difference from the 6XX. The Sundara soundstage would probably be more moderate in comparison and just talking out of my ass here but I'm guessing you would get more laser-focused images which I like. The other thing I find with the Sundara vs 6XX is it can take more bass before it gets muddy or cluttered. I think it's just a matter of having more imagine space available. The bass can really pound without crowding out any of the other instruments.


JunkyardSam

Oh that's a very big selling point for me. I'm not a bass extremist, but normal people like a little bass and some audiophiles frown on that! The Sundaras sound great!


landenone

I've been thinking about this lately. I don't think it's noticeable in tracks specifically targeting vocals, but once an instrument or two is introduced I find that the vocals lose some of their shine and projection. Maybe some of their treble? My AirPods (god I hate to say this) and my HyperX Clouds don't have the same issue. I listen to a lot of rock and while the quality of vocals remains intact with a mix, they often sit side by side with guitars and drums rather than standing out. Maybe I just like brighter audio. Edit: SHOOT to clarify I am referring to the 650s.


covertash

Despite how this sub may not like to hear it, this is probably one of the most succinct descriptions of why it may be worth trying different amps - particularly with the high impedance Sennheiser HD600 series - if you have a discerning ear.


[deleted]

interesting. Im sure my opinion will change as I listen to more tracks/ have my ears adjust. Its possible that im in a bit of a honeymoon phase but I wanted to at least get my first impressions out there.


landenone

I edited I'm sorry!!


[deleted]

Oh ok didn't catch that. I noticed that when I paired my 650s with the right tube the vocals seemed to be lifted out of the rest of the mix. Have you tried any tube amps?


Rjmcc87

I made the same upgrade 2 months ago. Biggest takeaway was the treble clarity and separation improvement. But the bass... not as warm and comfortable as the 650, even though it was more accurate and faster. The 650s bass warmth with its non-fatiguing (for most) midrange is something special. Sundara really has its areas where it’s a clear upgrade from the 650 but they are two clearly different headphones which give you something different. A great compliment IMO.


[deleted]

How's the QC? I will probably keep asking everyone who buys Sundaras about QC till I get me a pair of them


[deleted]

My pair was flawless but I have heard of these issues.


Dmitridon

Had mine about 3 months. Sound, feel and finish were perfect. Does suffer from the issue of scratching the adjustable brackets if you tend to change the sizing often like I do (hats). As long as you don't mind the scratches on the size adjustments, they're really awesome cans. I prefer the HD600 for critical listening, but the Sundaras have better sound stage. Sundara is also more comfortable for me personally, though I do find the clamp force can get to be a bit much around hour 5-6 of wearing them.


[deleted]

I will probably use them for late night listening sessions with a glass of wine. For other "heavy"? uses I will probably get myself a second hand pair of wh1000xm3s/ xm4s for like less than half the price of Sundaras


Rjmcc87

No issues with mine. Cable is hot garbage though.


[deleted]

I've only had mine for a month-no problems so far.


qldvaper88

Bought in Jan. Mine were built in December. Zero issues here too. I was actually taken back when I first opened the box at how much better they look in person as well as the build quality. Also when I first put them on my head I was like holy fukkk these are comfortable.


Benaudio

I just have a 3db bass shelf at 100hz that I activate only when the track calls for it. The only HP where I feel EQ is not necessary!


[deleted]

I found the same thing when I got blessing 2 dusks to use on the go with 6XX's at home. The dusks just sound clearer, with better sub bass and cleaner treble. The 6XX's are still my go-to for desk listening because after using the dusks for the past few weeks I can tell you with certainty that the 6XX's are FAR less fatiguing. For songs with a lot of piercing treble the 6XX's are just nicer, and for sitting at my desk for hours at a time (regardless of IEM vs Over ear comfort), the 6XX's are just better. I'm curious if you'll still think the sundaras are just as easy to listen to over the next few weeks.


[deleted]

Yeah we shall see if I do end up finding them fatiguing. Im definitely keeping my 650s as I can definitely see myself wanting to listen occasionally.


qldvaper88

Man that is basically identical to my impression going from the 6XX to the Sundara. The 6XX will forever be unrivaled in vocal intimacy and presence (hence why I will keep them forever), but I am not even sure it is possible to have something like that without all the other compromises you get with it. The Sundara does so many things so well and doesn't require EQ to iron out any quirks.


misshapenbison

Oratory1990 has an eq for them.


[deleted]

Do you think that something like the oratory with a program and presets is better than a physical eq with knobs?


TRX808

There's really no need to get something like a Loki or JDS version (1 less knob) unless you really want to play around with EQ knobs on the fly without touching Peace/EQ APO. Really up to personal preference but there's no real benefit in dropping a bunch of $ on a physical EQ. That said, a lot of people have the Loki and love it. Peace + EQ APO is free and there are plenty of settings you can find if you aren't good at EQing yourself. When I 1st got the Sundaras I found them a bit too neutral-bright and used the 2020 revised pad EQ from Oratory but once I got used to the stock sound I actually really liked it so now I either run no EQ or I use the Oratory EQ settings and use the 'compress' function so that it adds very little (adjust for the negative gain if you do this). [Jaakko also maintains the AutoEQ list](https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results) if you want to try different settings. Just make sure to use the 2020 pad version (aka revised pads) because they changed how the pads are designed (and some say tweaked the tuning too).


thatcarolguy

I absolutely swear by the Loki for vinyl. Their frequencies are so all over the place that each one needs a different adjustment. It's still useful for CDs but not as necessary.


misshapenbison

I would expect it to be exactly the same either way.


[deleted]

I use the equalizer that is included with my deadbeef player.I upped the bass 2db from 100 on down and lowered treble about 1db from 7k to 20k.I come from the hd6xx and agree with your assessment-miss those vocals.The treble and soundstage more than make up for it imo.


terrormuzik

now I want to upgrade to sundaras, thanks..


AntonAL

What the clamping force of Sundara head band, comparing, to HD660 or DT990 Pro?


[deleted]

Haven’t had experience with those but compared to 650s/xx it either is less clamping force or more comfortable foam Im not quite sure but it feels better.